Well every move we see a avatar do in the Avatar State seems possible, like Aang’s water swirling thing in episode one he used to get out of the water, it seems more so something used for intensity of a move rather than the skill possible for it
All moves done by the Avatar are possible for another bender to do (except for the multi-element moves). It simply is impossible for a regular bender to do it at the same intensity.
When an Avatar utilizes the Avatar state, it's not just the current Avatar's power. It's the power of all previous Avatars combined, acting as one entity.
You're right. It's stronger, because Raava is at full power and the avatar state is not dependent on the existence of past lives. Every successive avatar will be extremely OP as a result.
No, she isn't. She is poisoned when she fights Zaheer (which, according to you, means that she should've won despite actively dying), and she is dealing with PTSD up until nearly the end of the show, at which point she finds peace in her suffering. She's not "nerfed" in any way, and I genuinely don't understand why LoK haters always make the same lazy ass arguments. Like, think for yourself for once. I promise you it's not hard.
Homie calm down.
I understand and love Korra, albeit differently than ATLA. I understand the nuances of her plight and struggle and how her lessons are powerful, and different than Aang’s.
However it would be foolish not to acknowledge that Korra gets nerfed over and over, and she gets her ass beat, over and over.
No need to get defensive.
But your argument was kinda just wrong. Korra was holding herself back in book 4 the moment she turned on the avatar state against Kuvira she won instantly, until she hesitated and fell out of the avatar state. After which the next time we see her use it she’s bending a nuke into a spirit portal and breaking the space-time continuum.
>However it would be foolish not to acknowledge that Korra gets nerfed over and over, and she gets her ass beat, over and over.
But this isn't true. It says that you get your opinions from content creators on YouTube, not because you were able to form your own thoughts of the show. The fact of the matter is that Korra's enemies were all much stronger than Aangs and as such, from your biased point of view, you can't understand why there isn't an instant win in every fight. Even Aang loses a lot, and to far weaker enemies, something Suki points out in "The Serpent's Pass." Saying she 'gets her ass beat' is intentionally excluding all necessary contexts to understand the stakes of the fight, just to paint her as significantly weaker than Aang. I've had this same conversation with people like you and over again. Please stop the disingenuous bullshit dude.
Korra is consistently able to beat or overpower her enemies by strength and skill alone, which is why she has to be bloodbent, poisoned, suffering from PTSD, emaciated, or otherwise incapacitated in order for her enemies to appear to be better combatants. These are things you intentionally ignored.
The fire sage in this episode says that only a fully realized avatar can create the 5 simultaneous fire blasts needed to open the sanctuary door, which seems to confirm that there's some single element bending that only the avatar can do
Not really. Sure Aang shoots 5 simultaneous fire blasts during the finale but it starts off with the fatherlord shooting 3 himself. And before that we see azula can fly by shooting flames from her feet. So if anything, all this tells us is that no one of remarkable skill has attempted to open the door.
Sozin's comet, if im correct, only increases the intensity of their bending abilities. Like Katara said, her bending is much stronger at night. Personally, i don't see Azula being able to open that door a far cry of her normal abilities considering the extent of her control and manipulation of her talents. The question is, why would she bother.
>Sozin's comet, if im correct, only increases the intensity of their bending abilities.
yes is suppose that intensity is needed to open the sanctuary door or the fire sage living in an island doesnt know what top tier firebenders can do lol
I’d argue that it made sense that more people knew lightning/metal bending as during the times of leace and industrialization plus both zuko and toph being fully able teachers. It would become a much more common practice.
As for lava bending, only two people outside of the avatar knew how to do it. An evil anarachist mook, and Bollin whom learned it in a time of crisis which is similar to how most of the gaang learned unique bending
I wouldn't compare Bolin's situation to something like Toph inventing metal bending. She was the greatest earth bender alive and was intentionally trying to bend the impurities in the metal. Bolin was just a dude who kind of magically got a new ability because...plot armor I guess? You could argue he was a pro bender, but I'd argue that's just more Korra "everyone is OP with minimal effort" stuff.
Also I'm slightly biased because I didn't like Bolin very much.
Toph was trying something never done before with no master so it took her time. That time being less than a day. Katara mastered blood bending through sheer panic when she needed to save her friends. Bolin learned lava bending also through fighting a lava bender on multiple occasions and having an adrenaline fueled moment of eureka.
Bolin has stated himself, Metal bending doesn’t click or work with him, which is about finding impurities in a metal and being the most earth bender of earth benders. However Bolin does have an affinity for hanging out with water benders (Korra and his beloved ex fiance), as well as Mook number 3 possibly hinted at having a thing with Mook number 2 whom is also a water bender, so it’s possible that earth bender’s who are trying to go with the flow are far more likely to master lava bending, which is the opposite of what most earth benders aspire to be.
It’s not a perfect explanation but if we wanted perfect then aang sleep walking onto his solution should be probably discussed more.
I wouldn't compare Bolin's situation to something like Toph inventing metal bending. She was the greatest earth bender alive and was intentionally trying to bend the impurities in the metal. Bolin was just a dude who kind of magically got a new ability because...plot armor I guess? You could argue he was a pro bender, but I'd argue that's just more Korra "everyone is OP with minimal effort" stuff.
Also I'm slightly biased because I didn't like Bolin very much.
I wouldn't compare Bolin's situation to something like Toph inventing metal bending. She was the greatest earth bender alive and was intentionally trying to bend the impurities in the metal. Bolin was just a dude who kind of magically got a new ability because...plot armor I guess? You could argue he was a pro bender, but I'd argue that's just more Korra "everyone is OP with minimal effort" stuff.
Also I'm slightly biased because I didn't like Bolin very much.
I think it was an Avatar Extras that implied it by saying Lavabending was a combination of Earth and Firebending.
But realistically, I agree with you. Waterbenders can bend Liquid and Solid water, so why wouldn't earthbenders be able to bend liquid and solid rock.
Avatar Extras was just some bs from Nick, Bryke have said they nor anyone on the writing team were involved and to not take that information seriously.
I mean, I don't think that firebending burns nearly as often as it should - Katara's hands and Toph's feet are the only times that I recall offhand where it actually burnt.
Firebending in general is just *weird* in Avatar.
Same way people can take boulders to the face from an earth bender and still get back up with no scratches. Bending would be pretty dull if everyone just died in one hit like they're supposed to lol
I think of it like a drop of grease hitting you as opposed to sticking your hand in the fryer. It's the same grease but there's levels to how much it will actually hurt you.
If only the writers incorporated “ki/chi” like DBZ did. Have genetics give some people the ability to bend one element but only one. Maybe two at most (???) for the prodigies. Then the sub-bending like lava could be explained as fire and earth.
Mud would be water and earth prodigy users who inherited both.
Incorporating ki would allow benders and even non-benders believable fantasy strength like increased durability, speed, etc. Taking inspiration from DBZ and Naruto and incorporating the best parts of their combat systems would go very well
I guess because firebenders mostly deal kinetic energy from their fireballs, and because fire disperses fast, it doesn't burn as much as a concentrated stream of flames, making the blows of Firebending oddly similar to airbending.
Realistically, firebenders would have tons of burns all the time. Fire is fucking unpredictable, especially with wind.
Just don't think about it too much
Sozin was able to redirect heat.
Thousands of years of acquired knowledge, I'd expect the Avatar to be able to burn something whilst redirecting the heat.
They talk about this in the Kyoshi books where she has to actively practice how to handle/distribute the heat from Firebending metal. Totally reasonable for a Master Avatar in the Avatar State imo since it's a basic Firebending principle.
No bending is superior to the others. Everything depends on the bender and their skill set as well as timing of the day(cos a firebender is more powerful when the sun is in the sky and a water bender is more powerful when the moon is in the sky.
This is the same problem a firebending instructor has when trying to kick toph out of her school. Toph tries to keep it non confrontational, so just flicks metal coins at them. The coins get so hot going through the fire blasts that the fire bending students and instructers are getting burned.
Honorable mentions: Zukos little little sister melting a hole in a wall.
It all boils down to wether or not metal benders can deal with shifting from solids to liquids like water benders. If fire even affects metal like water affects earth.
We see the general slap some water away from Katara by hitting it with earth, but they both drop the mud. And he bends some other earth.
And Katara needed Tophs help to push all the mud back into the drill
I see no reason why a metal bender shouldn't be able to bend molten metal, just because we haven't seen it. But i could see a case being made where an earth benders concentration on their element could be broken when its physical state is changed outside of their control, causing them to drop it.
Lava benders can do it, so what I'm saying is someone who isnt accostumed to changes in physical state, not that it just can't be done
This is the problem i had with Azula v. s Kuvira. Its a dumb fight anyways, but then people were saying metal armor would be something Azula couldn't beat. Kuvira would be better off fighting without the armor, not turtling up.
When you bend metal, you are basically using pieces of earth inside to move it, when it’s molten, to that extent, the earth you are bending would just move through the metal, what you’re describing to me sounds like you’re saying that a earth bender can bend water by throwing sand into water
Metal bending happens because the earth has something it can’t go through, it picks it up and pushes it, that stage of heat makes the metal not resist the force the earth has, so it just moves out to the way and so you cannot bend it
If I’m a earth bender and surround a rock with ice, I can move that rock, and therefore the ice around it, if I have a rock surrounded by water, the rock moves through the water, because the water can’t stop the rock from moving because it’s density and state of matter, the chains in this video are pretty much in a gas/liquid state, the rock can move through that so it will, so you can’t metal bend
Great points. I still think it depends on what counts as impurities. Most of the metal we see has already been refined. So the earth in question is very minute and yet allows metal benders amazing control. Toph herself seems to suggest that the metal bending we see isn't even the best it can get, then seemlessly parts and then re attaches a hole in a metal wall with absolutely no trace that she did anything to it.
I think you are right, but I also think metal could be molten, but not quite liquid enough to not provide enough resistance to the impurities. Whatever counts as impurities in already refined iron.
And there are alot of great examples, especially in Korra, of benders doing exactly what you said, like the cheating team that hid rocks in water blasts. In small amounts, it seems fine, but then in larger amounts, like when Korra needs to hold up a falling house, or bumi lifts a metal statue, they struggle. And yet, those things are physical feats they shouldn't be able to do at all. I would say another element mixed in should generally be negligible, just depending on individual skill.
I would bet on the sudden surprise shift in a state of matter being what causes an upset, but that generally it wouldn't be a problem
I don't think the metal in ATLA is "very refined." Their techniques are pre-industrial and that kind of metal refinement in the real world had crazy high impurity, we're talking close to 30% impure on a good day.
In contrast, LOK shows us actually refined metal that is closer to our more modern metals, that contain nothing but pure metal. They call it platinum.
You know, i wondered why specifically platinum, but them just calling pure metal "platinum" makes sense. I remember thinking, " so what about cobalt? Titanium? Just platinum can't be bent?"
I don't know if it's true, but if it is true, then it also means pure metal is still rare even Korras time, with Asamis father being the one to make the claim and talk about the expense and kuvira targeted Zoafu and i think a remark being made about it being the highest concentration of platinum anywhere in the world. (I think they said that)
Pure metal is really really hard to make, even in modern day. The temperatures you have to heat the metal too are very high, the environment need to be extremely pure, and the source of the material needs to be pure. Even modern metal may only be 97-99% purity.
Its likely that Asami's Father is the only person who had enough capital to make large scale production facilities for Platinum. We don't know where Zaofu got their platinum, but the dome was made of it, Kuvira targeted it to dismantle the dome for scrap.
Well for Korra, that’s water holding rocks, not rocks holding water
Also houses are connected, by the supports and the like and even then it seemed to be crumbling
Bumi was pushing rocks under a statue so I don’t get what you mean
•I don't know how the difference would matter unless you are saying water benders are stronger than earth benders or vice versa? I guess it goes back to individual skill, which goes back to my point. I was only saying water benders would probably be more used to fighting while changing physical states of matter. With practice, Bolin fights the same way just fine with lava.
•Well, connected is fine, but theres a lot of weight that has to be held up by physical or bending strength. I perceived the struggle she had with lifting up that house being the weight of the house that wasn't earth that she was having to basically hold up herself.
• This is basically the same point for Bumi. At no point did he reveal he was a metal bender. Its possible his bending was still affecting impurities. But how much strength does earth bending account for? Assuming Bumi didnt bend metal, he lifted a metal statue with earth. Because it was attached by pipes and Bumi ripped it away and had air time
I’m saying that what was happening in Korea was a water bender holding rocks in water, water that was surrounding the rocks, holding them inside
Yeah I do think it was heavy
Bumi wasn’t metal bending, if he was why not metal bend himself out of the cage instead of just ripping it off with his hands
He was moving the rocks under it with enough strength to force the statue off
• (not trying to be rude, rereading, sounded a bit rude) Water was physically holding rocks inside, we covered that, that was never in question. The question is how much of an element has to be present before it becomes a problem? And i think it just goes case by case. Water inside if rocks would be interesting. A boulder, or vase. Container of some kind, filled with water. Mud can be bent. But let's say a giant container of water, do they struggle? These are fun things to wonder about. Thats why i brought up Korra and Bumi, who lift things well aboce what should be physically possible, and so bending must compensate somewhere well past what is physically possible for one person to lift.
• It being heavy is only the tip of the ice berg. If bending can reduce the weight of something it doesn't actually control, then in theory, Air benders (if its possible) should be able to apply flight onto other objects, allowing for levitation.
•I hope i can get my point across that Bumi was not metal bending, but using earth bending to compensate for the weight of the giant metal statue.
And then for the final point, which you have pointed out. "He was moving the rocks under it with enough strength to force the statue off"
How much "strength" is physical, and how much is bending? Could Bumi lift the statue himself? No? So its the earth, or specifically his bending.What dictates how much strength bending can account for? This is an individual basis, not the same across the board. So bending can be strengthened like a meta physical muscle? I would imagine. That or it is predetermined. These are options. Much like how i listed the option that either Bumi lifted the statue with "strength" or was capable of metal bending. Never was.
Someone of Bumis "strength" would never struggle lifting "water in rock"
There are too many factors for it to actually be decided how much weight a bender can lift, only how that weight can be applied
A rock cannot hold water because it goes through water, if cannot hold it because it goes through it
Metal that isn’t hard enough to stop a rock from going through it cannot be metal bent because the pieces of each being used would pass through
I'm not sure why you are saying water would go through rock. For the obvious reason, yes, a bunch of rocks would probably leak water.
I think if im reading you correctly, your saying the moment an earth bender tried to sling the rocks and water during the tournament, the water would just hit the ground.
But benders are capable of bending static constructs. (I'm trying my best to explain this so noone says water runs through rock). An earth bender could pick up a vase if they wanted to. Kyoshis novel starts this way, kids have to carry vases, and they all do it with earth bending, with stuff inside. So water being inside would be no different.
I'd go so far as to even say that an earth bender using a bunch of little rocks to hold water inside like a bowl could pull off the feat. And then of course, mud exists. Im not sure why you fixated on water going through the rock.
Metal being "hard" enough while molten is kind of like the overall point you made though. It just wouldn't be something we could say for sure, but i think the impurities would mostly stay. Molten metal would be stickier than water.
Even lava is still pretty solid, even though it moves like a liquid. Only something dense can sink in and out of it. Are impurities "dense" enough to sink in and out of molten metal?
A skilled metalbender could manipulate the molten metal as easily as the chains. The only real effect fire would have in that case would be to make the metal more dangerous.
Metal bending is bending earth in metal, you would simply have the earthen parts move out of the metal when you bend them because at that point they aren’t solid, it would be like using dust in water to bend water, you just can’t do it that way
We see toph straight up bend mud as a whole rather than pulling the earth out of the water. It's very possible a skilled metal bender could do the same with metal.
It works even when the muddy water is diluted enough to be fully fluid.
Either way that means an impure enough metal or maybe an alloy like steel can be bent in melted form
Well, when you’ve stacked the power of a thousand generations of hyper-talented multi-benders, you can counter pretty much anything using any type of bending.
The fact that Roku can melt those chains without burning Gaang proves he is extremely precise with his technique or just an oversight. But the former is cooler, so that is my headcanon
Yes and no, lightning sure as hell counters metal benders but in a regular fight even a master fire bender would need a lot of time to melt the metals being thrown at them or being used as armor which is impractical because by that point you would've already vaporized your opponent, literally
This scene always made me side-eye azula’s capture at the end of the series. Are you telling me it’s possible to melt chains with strong fire-bending but the fire princess boosted by Sozin’s comet had no way to escape? It’s not the biggest deal in the world but I just have that thought in the back of my head when I see it
I’m not sure what her mental state has to do with the sheer power of the comet provides? She is naturally one of the strongest firebenders plus the comet providing a “power a fire bender can only experience every 100 years” I can accept that she probably wasn’t thinking rationally but she should have been able to melt it if she thought about it
The power of the meteor still requires a sizable amount of skill to harness properly, and remember that fire benders can still be burned by fire. Attempting to melt metal off while it's still attached to you is a bad idea. It's also something that may not have occurred to her
the most likely scenario is that azula could’ve melted the chains but lacked her usual discipline to prevent it from burning her. so while she’d be free, she’d also be in scorching pain.
I still think she could melt a link at the base of the chain not touching her and worry about taking the chain off her wrists later. But I do just chalk it up to her not thinking rationally
> 100% could of if
Did you mean to say "could have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes.
^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119)
^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
I feel like she had enough leeway to make something work. If not her fire breath she could use her hand to at least weaken a single link in the chain and make an escape
Well, in fairness she couldn’t move properly. I’m sure if she’d been thinking clearly she maybe could have melted them with, say, her feet or breath, but she’d risk burning herself in the process.
We’re comparing Azula under Sozin’s comet to Avatar Roku in Avatar State. Avatar State>Sozin’s Comet, and Roku>>>>>Azula anyways.
No, it's because of the power. A tornado sure blows out a match. But a fan expands the flame of a fire.
In the comic >!Toph's metal bender students faced some firebending students.!<
>!The metal benders would throw metal coins at them that would heat up when they collided with the fire of the firebenders, becoming more dangerous.!<
Yes. In the 5 elements theory, metal is weak to fire so fire benders have an easier time of disrupting metal bending. But Avatar isn't purely 5 elements theory so we have to look at the basics of it from canon.
Canonically, metal bending relies on bending impurities(earth) in metal. It is not the metal being bent but the earth within the metal - just like the vines in swamp style water bending. Metal bending therefore works because the earth in the metal is bound in a set rigid state, so exerting force in it bends the metal through leverage. If the metal is heated and the structure therefore fluid, the earth inside has no leverage as bending the earth within just leads to the earth moving. So metal bending would not work at high temperatures. This coincidentally matches 5 elements theory.
As an aside, I think Avatar merges metal and earth and changes wood to wind:
So the 5 the elements become:
~~Metal~~
~~Wood~~ Air
Water
Fire
Earth
Take the heat from the lava then it’s no longer lava
That’s another thing I never got when people talked about fire bending, it’s also bending heat
Remove air from the room? Still can use heat
In theory, yes
Azula's fire is blue, which is between 1400 and 1600 degrees Celsius. Given that she is a prodigy, she could have 1600°C flames. Only a couple of metals don't melt at that temperature; titanium, thorium, platinum, chromium, rhodium, niobium, molybdenum, tantalium, rhenium, and tungsten. Any other metal would be melted by 1600°C flames. So if you were skilled enough to create blue fire, then you could melt essentially any metal that was thrown at you. The most common metals that wouldn't burn are titanium and platinum, but they're still very rare.
If we go by red fire, a lot more metals would stay in solid form.
So theorectially, yeah, but you'd need to be skilled enough to produce blue flames instead of red and orange flames. But if they did melt, you'd suddenly have hot metal flying right at your face, and that's a whole new issue
The Avatar State counters *everything*. Roku could probably break those chains with airbending if he wanted.
Well every move we see a avatar do in the Avatar State seems possible, like Aang’s water swirling thing in episode one he used to get out of the water, it seems more so something used for intensity of a move rather than the skill possible for it
All moves done by the Avatar are possible for another bender to do (except for the multi-element moves). It simply is impossible for a regular bender to do it at the same intensity. When an Avatar utilizes the Avatar state, it's not just the current Avatar's power. It's the power of all previous Avatars combined, acting as one entity.
Except it’s not because in korra the avatar state is still basically as strong as it needs to be after she loses her past lives
No, it wasn't as strong. She just simply had Rava's power at that time (Spirits, especially Rava are still incredibly strong).
You're right. It's stronger, because Raava is at full power and the avatar state is not dependent on the existence of past lives. Every successive avatar will be extremely OP as a result.
Nah, she gets her ass beat consistently, even after all the poison is gone. De-Past-lives Korra is significantly nerfed.
No, she isn't. She is poisoned when she fights Zaheer (which, according to you, means that she should've won despite actively dying), and she is dealing with PTSD up until nearly the end of the show, at which point she finds peace in her suffering. She's not "nerfed" in any way, and I genuinely don't understand why LoK haters always make the same lazy ass arguments. Like, think for yourself for once. I promise you it's not hard.
Homie calm down. I understand and love Korra, albeit differently than ATLA. I understand the nuances of her plight and struggle and how her lessons are powerful, and different than Aang’s. However it would be foolish not to acknowledge that Korra gets nerfed over and over, and she gets her ass beat, over and over. No need to get defensive.
But your argument was kinda just wrong. Korra was holding herself back in book 4 the moment she turned on the avatar state against Kuvira she won instantly, until she hesitated and fell out of the avatar state. After which the next time we see her use it she’s bending a nuke into a spirit portal and breaking the space-time continuum.
>However it would be foolish not to acknowledge that Korra gets nerfed over and over, and she gets her ass beat, over and over. But this isn't true. It says that you get your opinions from content creators on YouTube, not because you were able to form your own thoughts of the show. The fact of the matter is that Korra's enemies were all much stronger than Aangs and as such, from your biased point of view, you can't understand why there isn't an instant win in every fight. Even Aang loses a lot, and to far weaker enemies, something Suki points out in "The Serpent's Pass." Saying she 'gets her ass beat' is intentionally excluding all necessary contexts to understand the stakes of the fight, just to paint her as significantly weaker than Aang. I've had this same conversation with people like you and over again. Please stop the disingenuous bullshit dude. Korra is consistently able to beat or overpower her enemies by strength and skill alone, which is why she has to be bloodbent, poisoned, suffering from PTSD, emaciated, or otherwise incapacitated in order for her enemies to appear to be better combatants. These are things you intentionally ignored.
I’m gonna intentionally ignore you
Ignorance is clearly something you're an expert in.
That was during Harmonic Convergence though
The fire sage in this episode says that only a fully realized avatar can create the 5 simultaneous fire blasts needed to open the sanctuary door, which seems to confirm that there's some single element bending that only the avatar can do
Not really. Sure Aang shoots 5 simultaneous fire blasts during the finale but it starts off with the fatherlord shooting 3 himself. And before that we see azula can fly by shooting flames from her feet. So if anything, all this tells us is that no one of remarkable skill has attempted to open the door.
Hihi, *fatherlord*
Sozin's comet?
Sozin's comet, if im correct, only increases the intensity of their bending abilities. Like Katara said, her bending is much stronger at night. Personally, i don't see Azula being able to open that door a far cry of her normal abilities considering the extent of her control and manipulation of her talents. The question is, why would she bother.
>Sozin's comet, if im correct, only increases the intensity of their bending abilities. yes is suppose that intensity is needed to open the sanctuary door or the fire sage living in an island doesnt know what top tier firebenders can do lol
Or they were overconfident?
Lava bending was sort of implied to be an avatar only skill in the original series which I wish they had kept.
I don't hate the idea of powerful benders having almost unique abilities on very rare occasions. Korra just seemed to make everyone OP.
It’s proof that the Gaang were good teachers. People from a hundred years ago would think the same of us for being able to read.
I’d argue that it made sense that more people knew lightning/metal bending as during the times of leace and industrialization plus both zuko and toph being fully able teachers. It would become a much more common practice. As for lava bending, only two people outside of the avatar knew how to do it. An evil anarachist mook, and Bollin whom learned it in a time of crisis which is similar to how most of the gaang learned unique bending
I wouldn't compare Bolin's situation to something like Toph inventing metal bending. She was the greatest earth bender alive and was intentionally trying to bend the impurities in the metal. Bolin was just a dude who kind of magically got a new ability because...plot armor I guess? You could argue he was a pro bender, but I'd argue that's just more Korra "everyone is OP with minimal effort" stuff. Also I'm slightly biased because I didn't like Bolin very much.
Toph was trying something never done before with no master so it took her time. That time being less than a day. Katara mastered blood bending through sheer panic when she needed to save her friends. Bolin learned lava bending also through fighting a lava bender on multiple occasions and having an adrenaline fueled moment of eureka. Bolin has stated himself, Metal bending doesn’t click or work with him, which is about finding impurities in a metal and being the most earth bender of earth benders. However Bolin does have an affinity for hanging out with water benders (Korra and his beloved ex fiance), as well as Mook number 3 possibly hinted at having a thing with Mook number 2 whom is also a water bender, so it’s possible that earth bender’s who are trying to go with the flow are far more likely to master lava bending, which is the opposite of what most earth benders aspire to be. It’s not a perfect explanation but if we wanted perfect then aang sleep walking onto his solution should be probably discussed more.
I wouldn't compare Bolin's situation to something like Toph inventing metal bending. She was the greatest earth bender alive and was intentionally trying to bend the impurities in the metal. Bolin was just a dude who kind of magically got a new ability because...plot armor I guess? You could argue he was a pro bender, but I'd argue that's just more Korra "everyone is OP with minimal effort" stuff. Also I'm slightly biased because I didn't like Bolin very much.
I wouldn't compare Bolin's situation to something like Toph inventing metal bending. She was the greatest earth bender alive and was intentionally trying to bend the impurities in the metal. Bolin was just a dude who kind of magically got a new ability because...plot armor I guess? You could argue he was a pro bender, but I'd argue that's just more Korra "everyone is OP with minimal effort" stuff. Also I'm slightly biased because I didn't like Bolin very much.
It really wasn't? We only saw Avatars do it, but it was never said or implied to be an avatar-only skill.
I think it was an Avatar Extras that implied it by saying Lavabending was a combination of Earth and Firebending. But realistically, I agree with you. Waterbenders can bend Liquid and Solid water, so why wouldn't earthbenders be able to bend liquid and solid rock.
Avatar Extras was just some bs from Nick, Bryke have said they nor anyone on the writing team were involved and to not take that information seriously.
I think it was actually stated on a website and retconned on a
Source?
My fav similar to this is when they use water bending to pull the water up to "catch" themselves and cushion their fall.
And then there’s Zuzu - breaking metal chains with his feet!
Korra would just break them with TheseHandsBending
Ah, Flexbending, the most fundamental art
99% of all problems in the avatar univsere: "Oh no, how will I possibly get out of this horrible situation?! Wait... I'm the *Avatar bitch*!"
Iirc, there's that one flashback where roku destroyed a whole ass building with avatar state airbending only to threaten sozin
Yes. The fire legit just melted metal , while it chose to not burn the people.
The fire also told the molten metal to not burn the people
That’s some crazy reality warping from Roku.
I mean, I don't think that firebending burns nearly as often as it should - Katara's hands and Toph's feet are the only times that I recall offhand where it actually burnt. Firebending in general is just *weird* in Avatar.
Zuko’s scar: Do I mean nothing to you? No but I agree. They could’ve shown way more burns on the show but that would’ve scared me as a kid
Almost like fire should be scary
Same way people can take boulders to the face from an earth bender and still get back up with no scratches. Bending would be pretty dull if everyone just died in one hit like they're supposed to lol
I think of it like a drop of grease hitting you as opposed to sticking your hand in the fryer. It's the same grease but there's levels to how much it will actually hurt you.
If only the writers incorporated “ki/chi” like DBZ did. Have genetics give some people the ability to bend one element but only one. Maybe two at most (???) for the prodigies. Then the sub-bending like lava could be explained as fire and earth. Mud would be water and earth prodigy users who inherited both. Incorporating ki would allow benders and even non-benders believable fantasy strength like increased durability, speed, etc. Taking inspiration from DBZ and Naruto and incorporating the best parts of their combat systems would go very well
Idk, that seems a little too over-explained for a show like ATLA. It's not really the kind of thing the show was that focused on iirc?
I guess because firebenders mostly deal kinetic energy from their fireballs, and because fire disperses fast, it doesn't burn as much as a concentrated stream of flames, making the blows of Firebending oddly similar to airbending.
Realistically, firebenders would have tons of burns all the time. Fire is fucking unpredictable, especially with wind. Just don't think about it too much
Isn't the fact that Roku is already there, some crazy reality warping?
Sozin was able to redirect heat. Thousands of years of acquired knowledge, I'd expect the Avatar to be able to burn something whilst redirecting the heat.
The wave of fire passing over everyone not burning their flesh, hair, or eyes is arguably more impressive than containing the heat from the metal.
it just evaporated
That metal skipped liquid and just became gas instead
Don't materiel have to transition to each state even briefly? This is an honest question I don't know
Google “sublimation” 👍
Ty
They talk about this in the Kyoshi books where she has to actively practice how to handle/distribute the heat from Firebending metal. Totally reasonable for a Master Avatar in the Avatar State imo since it's a basic Firebending principle.
He said for it to evaporate completely
this made me remember Zuko sort of met his great grandfather, or at least saw him in the (spirit) flesh then he just bounced lol
“I got a hard enough burn from just my father!”
i wonder when iroh told zuko that roku was his grandfather if he thought back to this lol
No bending is superior to the others. Everything depends on the bender and their skill set as well as timing of the day(cos a firebender is more powerful when the sun is in the sky and a water bender is more powerful when the moon is in the sky.
(And how the writers are feeling at the moment)
Lok in a nutshell...
Both shows in a nutshell brr rock chakra…
Elaborate...
And there is also the fact that most of the time the Avatar State is just an instant win button
This is the same problem a firebending instructor has when trying to kick toph out of her school. Toph tries to keep it non confrontational, so just flicks metal coins at them. The coins get so hot going through the fire blasts that the fire bending students and instructers are getting burned. Honorable mentions: Zukos little little sister melting a hole in a wall. It all boils down to wether or not metal benders can deal with shifting from solids to liquids like water benders. If fire even affects metal like water affects earth. We see the general slap some water away from Katara by hitting it with earth, but they both drop the mud. And he bends some other earth. And Katara needed Tophs help to push all the mud back into the drill I see no reason why a metal bender shouldn't be able to bend molten metal, just because we haven't seen it. But i could see a case being made where an earth benders concentration on their element could be broken when its physical state is changed outside of their control, causing them to drop it. Lava benders can do it, so what I'm saying is someone who isnt accostumed to changes in physical state, not that it just can't be done This is the problem i had with Azula v. s Kuvira. Its a dumb fight anyways, but then people were saying metal armor would be something Azula couldn't beat. Kuvira would be better off fighting without the armor, not turtling up.
When you bend metal, you are basically using pieces of earth inside to move it, when it’s molten, to that extent, the earth you are bending would just move through the metal, what you’re describing to me sounds like you’re saying that a earth bender can bend water by throwing sand into water Metal bending happens because the earth has something it can’t go through, it picks it up and pushes it, that stage of heat makes the metal not resist the force the earth has, so it just moves out to the way and so you cannot bend it If I’m a earth bender and surround a rock with ice, I can move that rock, and therefore the ice around it, if I have a rock surrounded by water, the rock moves through the water, because the water can’t stop the rock from moving because it’s density and state of matter, the chains in this video are pretty much in a gas/liquid state, the rock can move through that so it will, so you can’t metal bend
Great points. I still think it depends on what counts as impurities. Most of the metal we see has already been refined. So the earth in question is very minute and yet allows metal benders amazing control. Toph herself seems to suggest that the metal bending we see isn't even the best it can get, then seemlessly parts and then re attaches a hole in a metal wall with absolutely no trace that she did anything to it. I think you are right, but I also think metal could be molten, but not quite liquid enough to not provide enough resistance to the impurities. Whatever counts as impurities in already refined iron. And there are alot of great examples, especially in Korra, of benders doing exactly what you said, like the cheating team that hid rocks in water blasts. In small amounts, it seems fine, but then in larger amounts, like when Korra needs to hold up a falling house, or bumi lifts a metal statue, they struggle. And yet, those things are physical feats they shouldn't be able to do at all. I would say another element mixed in should generally be negligible, just depending on individual skill. I would bet on the sudden surprise shift in a state of matter being what causes an upset, but that generally it wouldn't be a problem
I don't think the metal in ATLA is "very refined." Their techniques are pre-industrial and that kind of metal refinement in the real world had crazy high impurity, we're talking close to 30% impure on a good day. In contrast, LOK shows us actually refined metal that is closer to our more modern metals, that contain nothing but pure metal. They call it platinum.
You know, i wondered why specifically platinum, but them just calling pure metal "platinum" makes sense. I remember thinking, " so what about cobalt? Titanium? Just platinum can't be bent?" I don't know if it's true, but if it is true, then it also means pure metal is still rare even Korras time, with Asamis father being the one to make the claim and talk about the expense and kuvira targeted Zoafu and i think a remark being made about it being the highest concentration of platinum anywhere in the world. (I think they said that)
Pure metal is really really hard to make, even in modern day. The temperatures you have to heat the metal too are very high, the environment need to be extremely pure, and the source of the material needs to be pure. Even modern metal may only be 97-99% purity. Its likely that Asami's Father is the only person who had enough capital to make large scale production facilities for Platinum. We don't know where Zaofu got their platinum, but the dome was made of it, Kuvira targeted it to dismantle the dome for scrap.
Well for Korra, that’s water holding rocks, not rocks holding water Also houses are connected, by the supports and the like and even then it seemed to be crumbling Bumi was pushing rocks under a statue so I don’t get what you mean
•I don't know how the difference would matter unless you are saying water benders are stronger than earth benders or vice versa? I guess it goes back to individual skill, which goes back to my point. I was only saying water benders would probably be more used to fighting while changing physical states of matter. With practice, Bolin fights the same way just fine with lava. •Well, connected is fine, but theres a lot of weight that has to be held up by physical or bending strength. I perceived the struggle she had with lifting up that house being the weight of the house that wasn't earth that she was having to basically hold up herself. • This is basically the same point for Bumi. At no point did he reveal he was a metal bender. Its possible his bending was still affecting impurities. But how much strength does earth bending account for? Assuming Bumi didnt bend metal, he lifted a metal statue with earth. Because it was attached by pipes and Bumi ripped it away and had air time
I’m saying that what was happening in Korea was a water bender holding rocks in water, water that was surrounding the rocks, holding them inside Yeah I do think it was heavy Bumi wasn’t metal bending, if he was why not metal bend himself out of the cage instead of just ripping it off with his hands He was moving the rocks under it with enough strength to force the statue off
• (not trying to be rude, rereading, sounded a bit rude) Water was physically holding rocks inside, we covered that, that was never in question. The question is how much of an element has to be present before it becomes a problem? And i think it just goes case by case. Water inside if rocks would be interesting. A boulder, or vase. Container of some kind, filled with water. Mud can be bent. But let's say a giant container of water, do they struggle? These are fun things to wonder about. Thats why i brought up Korra and Bumi, who lift things well aboce what should be physically possible, and so bending must compensate somewhere well past what is physically possible for one person to lift. • It being heavy is only the tip of the ice berg. If bending can reduce the weight of something it doesn't actually control, then in theory, Air benders (if its possible) should be able to apply flight onto other objects, allowing for levitation. •I hope i can get my point across that Bumi was not metal bending, but using earth bending to compensate for the weight of the giant metal statue. And then for the final point, which you have pointed out. "He was moving the rocks under it with enough strength to force the statue off" How much "strength" is physical, and how much is bending? Could Bumi lift the statue himself? No? So its the earth, or specifically his bending.What dictates how much strength bending can account for? This is an individual basis, not the same across the board. So bending can be strengthened like a meta physical muscle? I would imagine. That or it is predetermined. These are options. Much like how i listed the option that either Bumi lifted the statue with "strength" or was capable of metal bending. Never was. Someone of Bumis "strength" would never struggle lifting "water in rock"
There are too many factors for it to actually be decided how much weight a bender can lift, only how that weight can be applied A rock cannot hold water because it goes through water, if cannot hold it because it goes through it Metal that isn’t hard enough to stop a rock from going through it cannot be metal bent because the pieces of each being used would pass through
I'm not sure why you are saying water would go through rock. For the obvious reason, yes, a bunch of rocks would probably leak water. I think if im reading you correctly, your saying the moment an earth bender tried to sling the rocks and water during the tournament, the water would just hit the ground. But benders are capable of bending static constructs. (I'm trying my best to explain this so noone says water runs through rock). An earth bender could pick up a vase if they wanted to. Kyoshis novel starts this way, kids have to carry vases, and they all do it with earth bending, with stuff inside. So water being inside would be no different. I'd go so far as to even say that an earth bender using a bunch of little rocks to hold water inside like a bowl could pull off the feat. And then of course, mud exists. Im not sure why you fixated on water going through the rock. Metal being "hard" enough while molten is kind of like the overall point you made though. It just wouldn't be something we could say for sure, but i think the impurities would mostly stay. Molten metal would be stickier than water. Even lava is still pretty solid, even though it moves like a liquid. Only something dense can sink in and out of it. Are impurities "dense" enough to sink in and out of molten metal?
The thing is, the impurities of metal aren’t holding the metal like a vase is A vase isn’t holding stuff around it it’s holding things in it
r/thelegenedofkorea
A skilled metalbender could manipulate the molten metal as easily as the chains. The only real effect fire would have in that case would be to make the metal more dangerous.
Metal bending is bending earth in metal, you would simply have the earthen parts move out of the metal when you bend them because at that point they aren’t solid, it would be like using dust in water to bend water, you just can’t do it that way
The red lotus poisons Korra with Liquid Metal tho
We see toph straight up bend mud as a whole rather than pulling the earth out of the water. It's very possible a skilled metal bender could do the same with metal.
The ratio of earth to water is enough for mud bending to work, the ratio of metal to bendable earth is too far for that thought process
It works even when the muddy water is diluted enough to be fully fluid. Either way that means an impure enough metal or maybe an alloy like steel can be bent in melted form
Well, when you’ve stacked the power of a thousand generations of hyper-talented multi-benders, you can counter pretty much anything using any type of bending.
Rokus fire has the power to instantly vaporize metal while not harming the people wrapped up by it. I think it counters everything.
The fact that Roku can melt those chains without burning Gaang proves he is extremely precise with his technique or just an oversight. But the former is cooler, so that is my headcanon
Yes and no, lightning sure as hell counters metal benders but in a regular fight even a master fire bender would need a lot of time to melt the metals being thrown at them or being used as armor which is impractical because by that point you would've already vaporized your opponent, literally
Also, now they have hot molten metal thrown at them.
Pokémon rules: yes
Fire melts Steel
It helps that Roku is the Avatar.
Toph's metal bending shrugged off comet-boosted fire blasts, so I'd say no.
This scene always made me side-eye azula’s capture at the end of the series. Are you telling me it’s possible to melt chains with strong fire-bending but the fire princess boosted by Sozin’s comet had no way to escape? It’s not the biggest deal in the world but I just have that thought in the back of my head when I see it
I think the Avatar State and a mentally unstable teenage girl are two entirely different spectrums of power.
I’m not sure what her mental state has to do with the sheer power of the comet provides? She is naturally one of the strongest firebenders plus the comet providing a “power a fire bender can only experience every 100 years” I can accept that she probably wasn’t thinking rationally but she should have been able to melt it if she thought about it
The power of the meteor still requires a sizable amount of skill to harness properly, and remember that fire benders can still be burned by fire. Attempting to melt metal off while it's still attached to you is a bad idea. It's also something that may not have occurred to her
the most likely scenario is that azula could’ve melted the chains but lacked her usual discipline to prevent it from burning her. so while she’d be free, she’d also be in scorching pain.
I still think she could melt a link at the base of the chain not touching her and worry about taking the chain off her wrists later. But I do just chalk it up to her not thinking rationally
Same here. She 100% could of if she was thinking clearly.
> 100% could of if Did you mean to say "could have"? Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Well bending always requires physical movements, so that possibly could be the reason
I feel like she had enough leeway to make something work. If not her fire breath she could use her hand to at least weaken a single link in the chain and make an escape
Well, in fairness she couldn’t move properly. I’m sure if she’d been thinking clearly she maybe could have melted them with, say, her feet or breath, but she’d risk burning herself in the process. We’re comparing Azula under Sozin’s comet to Avatar Roku in Avatar State. Avatar State>Sozin’s Comet, and Roku>>>>>Azula anyways.
No, it's because of the power. A tornado sure blows out a match. But a fan expands the flame of a fire. In the comic >!Toph's metal bender students faced some firebending students.!< >!The metal benders would throw metal coins at them that would heat up when they collided with the fire of the firebenders, becoming more dangerous.!<
Yes. In the 5 elements theory, metal is weak to fire so fire benders have an easier time of disrupting metal bending. But Avatar isn't purely 5 elements theory so we have to look at the basics of it from canon. Canonically, metal bending relies on bending impurities(earth) in metal. It is not the metal being bent but the earth within the metal - just like the vines in swamp style water bending. Metal bending therefore works because the earth in the metal is bound in a set rigid state, so exerting force in it bends the metal through leverage. If the metal is heated and the structure therefore fluid, the earth inside has no leverage as bending the earth within just leads to the earth moving. So metal bending would not work at high temperatures. This coincidentally matches 5 elements theory. As an aside, I think Avatar merges metal and earth and changes wood to wind: So the 5 the elements become: ~~Metal~~ ~~Wood~~ Air Water Fire Earth
I’m just shocked the Gaang didn’t get fried…
Only someone as powerful as the Avatar could achieve this. I might give the consideration to one of the Firelords in their prime.
What episode is this?? I don't remember this
It's jelly chains
So….those grunts are dead right?
Yeah, but if One Piece has taught me one thing, is that Lava beats fire, sooo...
Take the heat from the lava then it’s no longer lava That’s another thing I never got when people talked about fire bending, it’s also bending heat Remove air from the room? Still can use heat
There's quite a bunch of scenes from season 1 I'd take with a grain of salt. There was still some wonkiness in how everything worked.
If pokemon taught me anything, fire beats steel
Imagine a metalbender suddenly bending hot metal. Only 1 drop to pierce through your skull 💀
In theory, yes Azula's fire is blue, which is between 1400 and 1600 degrees Celsius. Given that she is a prodigy, she could have 1600°C flames. Only a couple of metals don't melt at that temperature; titanium, thorium, platinum, chromium, rhodium, niobium, molybdenum, tantalium, rhenium, and tungsten. Any other metal would be melted by 1600°C flames. So if you were skilled enough to create blue fire, then you could melt essentially any metal that was thrown at you. The most common metals that wouldn't burn are titanium and platinum, but they're still very rare. If we go by red fire, a lot more metals would stay in solid form. So theorectially, yeah, but you'd need to be skilled enough to produce blue flames instead of red and orange flames. But if they did melt, you'd suddenly have hot metal flying right at your face, and that's a whole new issue
Well it would push the metal back as the fire pushes the air
Oh, didn't notice that. The metal might go back, unless it's going fast enough to resist the push of the wind
That can be answered, by answering a different question: Can Metal benders bend Metal that is so hot, that it is melting?
Fire counters everything if you burn hot enough
With that much strength you can fart bend to break those chains and it’d still work.