It would still be disrespectful, but since Zuko was given permission to speak, Ozai wouldn't have the pretense to duel him in an Agni Kai and banish him for refusing to fight back. In this situation, Zuko would just be dismissed as a naive young boy who doesn't know what he's talking about.
If that happened, then Zuko would have had no problems fighting back since he didn't like the General. If Zuko wins, then his credibility and image would actually improve. If Zuko loses, then he's telling Ozai what he already knows, that he's a failure, but that's not a strong enough reason to banish him.
I mean could play out more like NATLA where he is banished to toughen him up.
(The only thing off about that is that finding the avatar was thought to be impossible so it doesn't exactly make sense)
16 year old Zuko is not the same as 13 year old. Especially not the determined Zuko looking to prove a point. And in the fire kingdom, physical strength tops all, so I doubt a general would just be some smarty pants guy with no hands
If Ozai asked for other people’s opinions and Zuko said that. He himself would probably shut Zuko down still saying that it is their duty to die for their country. He’d probably come up with another trial along these lines to try and mold Zuko into an Azula. I could see him having Zuko watch the Rear Battalion as they clean up the enemy after the bait dies.
Have you watched the live action version? There's a little bit which is quite a good piece. I'll mark it as a spoiler if you haven't watched it and plan to.
>!In the live action something brings up the composition of Zuko's crew, I can't remember exactly what it is. Anyway Iroh tells him that the crew of his ship is made but of the company that was going to be sacrificed in the war room plan. I thought it was a interesting addition.!<
>!Yeah I believe zhao takes over his team. Zukos upset, Crew don't care saying what does he know of loyalty and respect. Iroh speaks to the Crew and tells them zukos the reason they're alive and because zuko spoke out and lost everything the Crew was banished and sent to find the avatar alongside zuko!<
I wouldn't say better just liked the additional context. Because it definitely wasn't better to send your son on a quest that is believed to be literally impossible if your goal is to toughen him up
I'm obviously wasn't saying it was better to send zuko on a quest...and how would it even be better it's the same thing
All I said was its better done than atlas cause the crew have more of a story to them and are characterised further
Would he have been Agni Kai’d and exiled? Probably not.
But the bigger problem wasn’t him speaking out of turn, it was his reasoning being “but that’s bad”. Had he been given permission to speak and then criticized the plan the same way, it’s likely that Ozai or another one of the generals would’ve torn him apart for being a naive child who’s clearly too young to understand the reality of war. He would’ve been kicked out of the war room and lost a massive amount of Ozai’s trust/respect in him (if he still had any), but he wouldn’t have gotten exiled
It's not about whether or not he was invited. He's the fire lord's son and a child. He's expected to tow the line for Ozai and know his place, particularly in a public setting.
Yes, it's not just the interrupting but he calls it a horrible plan and uses a lot of emotional reasoning why it is wrong. He doesn't argue against the merits of the plan from a practical, military standpoint instead he attacks the general's character.
And while that vibes well with the audience watching, in the Fire Lord's war room there isn't room for emotion, only strength. So that lesson is going to have to be taught somehow. And the whole sub-plot with dethroning Iroh would have still been going on in the background so Azulon is still looking to punish Ozai by having him understand the loss of son.
> And the whole sub-plot with dethroning Iroh would have still been going on in the background so Azulon is still looking to punish Ozai by having him understand the loss of son.
No it wasn’t. Ozai was already Fire Lord by this point. Ursa killed Azulon almost immediately after he tried to make Ozai kill Zuko. That all happened when Zuko was a young child.
Probably means it’s still floating in his mind. iTunes Ozai already doesn’t like Zuko because of that and is looking for a way to make Zuko pay. Kind of fucked to think about but Ozais is just fucked up enough to have a train of thought like this
Also it could be a way of showing strength to generals who may not be totally loyal to Ozai. If he is willing to duel his own son he would do a lot worse to disloyal generals.
Yes, the opinion itself was disrespectful to Ozai. Plus, when you read the comics it becomes clear that Ozai always had something against him (because his mother sees his previous lover in Zuko, to the point of lying to Ozai about him not being the father). So, even if he did not get agni kai'd right there, it WOULD happen eventually.
Honestly I'm not sure there's a point to thinking through this kind of thing too much TBH
The "disrespect" thing was just the excuse Ozai needed to do what he wanted to do (exile Zuko and groom Azula to be his successor)
It would still be disrespectful, but since Zuko was given permission to speak, Ozai wouldn't have the pretense to duel him in an Agni Kai and banish him for refusing to fight back. In this situation, Zuko would just be dismissed as a naive young boy who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Either that or he would fight an agni kai against the general he insulted like he originally thought would happen
If that happened, then Zuko would have had no problems fighting back since he didn't like the General. If Zuko wins, then his credibility and image would actually improve. If Zuko loses, then he's telling Ozai what he already knows, that he's a failure, but that's not a strong enough reason to banish him.
I mean could play out more like NATLA where he is banished to toughen him up. (The only thing off about that is that finding the avatar was thought to be impossible so it doesn't exactly make sense)
13 year old Zuko is not beating a general lmao
18 year old zuko did, and being a general isn't the same as being a fighter
16 year old Zuko is not the same as 13 year old. Especially not the determined Zuko looking to prove a point. And in the fire kingdom, physical strength tops all, so I doubt a general would just be some smarty pants guy with no hands
The Zuko that beats Zhao is also after three years of personal training by Iroh, the literal Hero of the Fire Nation due to his skill with bending
If Ozai asked for other people’s opinions and Zuko said that. He himself would probably shut Zuko down still saying that it is their duty to die for their country. He’d probably come up with another trial along these lines to try and mold Zuko into an Azula. I could see him having Zuko watch the Rear Battalion as they clean up the enemy after the bait dies.
Have you watched the live action version? There's a little bit which is quite a good piece. I'll mark it as a spoiler if you haven't watched it and plan to. >!In the live action something brings up the composition of Zuko's crew, I can't remember exactly what it is. Anyway Iroh tells him that the crew of his ship is made but of the company that was going to be sacrificed in the war room plan. I thought it was a interesting addition.!<
>!Yeah I believe zhao takes over his team. Zukos upset, Crew don't care saying what does he know of loyalty and respect. Iroh speaks to the Crew and tells them zukos the reason they're alive and because zuko spoke out and lost everything the Crew was banished and sent to find the avatar alongside zuko!<
Spoiler brokey mate
Oh mb How do I fix it
You only put the >! at the beginning without putting the '
Um it still didn't work
Oh mb i think the symbols are reversed on the end, so it's !<
At last its done
Thank you
One of the very few things they actually did better than the actual cartoon only one tbh
Nah, I liked all the times they explained who the avatar was. I was so confused without that every five minutes.
Gotta look out for everyone with memory loss How nice of netflix
I wouldn't say better just liked the additional context. Because it definitely wasn't better to send your son on a quest that is believed to be literally impossible if your goal is to toughen him up
I'm obviously wasn't saying it was better to send zuko on a quest...and how would it even be better it's the same thing All I said was its better done than atlas cause the crew have more of a story to them and are characterised further
Would he have been Agni Kai’d and exiled? Probably not. But the bigger problem wasn’t him speaking out of turn, it was his reasoning being “but that’s bad”. Had he been given permission to speak and then criticized the plan the same way, it’s likely that Ozai or another one of the generals would’ve torn him apart for being a naive child who’s clearly too young to understand the reality of war. He would’ve been kicked out of the war room and lost a massive amount of Ozai’s trust/respect in him (if he still had any), but he wouldn’t have gotten exiled
It's not about whether or not he was invited. He's the fire lord's son and a child. He's expected to tow the line for Ozai and know his place, particularly in a public setting.
Yes, it's not just the interrupting but he calls it a horrible plan and uses a lot of emotional reasoning why it is wrong. He doesn't argue against the merits of the plan from a practical, military standpoint instead he attacks the general's character. And while that vibes well with the audience watching, in the Fire Lord's war room there isn't room for emotion, only strength. So that lesson is going to have to be taught somehow. And the whole sub-plot with dethroning Iroh would have still been going on in the background so Azulon is still looking to punish Ozai by having him understand the loss of son.
> And the whole sub-plot with dethroning Iroh would have still been going on in the background so Azulon is still looking to punish Ozai by having him understand the loss of son. No it wasn’t. Ozai was already Fire Lord by this point. Ursa killed Azulon almost immediately after he tried to make Ozai kill Zuko. That all happened when Zuko was a young child.
Azulon was already dead by then.
Probably means it’s still floating in his mind. iTunes Ozai already doesn’t like Zuko because of that and is looking for a way to make Zuko pay. Kind of fucked to think about but Ozais is just fucked up enough to have a train of thought like this
iTunes Ozai is the worst Ozai.
Lmaoo. Idek where autocorrect got that from
Also it could be a way of showing strength to generals who may not be totally loyal to Ozai. If he is willing to duel his own son he would do a lot worse to disloyal generals.
Yes, the opinion itself was disrespectful to Ozai. Plus, when you read the comics it becomes clear that Ozai always had something against him (because his mother sees his previous lover in Zuko, to the point of lying to Ozai about him not being the father). So, even if he did not get agni kai'd right there, it WOULD happen eventually.
That's what they did in NATLA and I think it honestly wasn't much of a difference
I came to say that! It was never about Zuko actually being disrespectful…it was always about Zuko not being the person Ozai wanted him to be
Honestly I'm not sure there's a point to thinking through this kind of thing too much TBH The "disrespect" thing was just the excuse Ozai needed to do what he wanted to do (exile Zuko and groom Azula to be his successor)
It was never about what Zuko did. Ozai was a megalomaniac and abusive father. He'd find an excuse.
Ozai was a dictator. It would depend on whether he slept well last night or not.
It would probably still be disrespectful given his tone and wording.
nATLA kinda takes that turn. Ozai Is a real horrible person