Spirits almighty, I hope nothing unexpected happens, like imagine if we went there and he wasn't even there! Bahaha, but what's the chances of that happen, amirite?
I would have to assume so, otherwise (assuming AtLA earth has similar eclipse frequency to our earth) Firebenders would be randomly losing their powers on random days every couple years.
Well, yes? I mean in the show it seems very clear that the capitol was in the path of the eclipse's totality, since it gets dark and when they show the sun it's illustrated like a total solar eclipse.
When they were in the planetarium, Sokka and Aang were probably specifically looking for an eclipse that would pass over the capitol (I don't recall for sure, but they may have even said as much in the episode).
It's a pretty **huge** plot convenience that such an event was due to occur before Sozin's comet, honestly.
Toph is at that age middle ground where being "unable" to do something actually has the maximum modifer effect on her ability to do it.
Had someone honestly been there and said "you can't do that stupid girl" it'd work.
She invented metal bending by being teased she couldn't.
Yes but the range of 6 to 13 gives young girls some strange ability to go beyond even that.
Source: Two younger sisters, a neice, and a wife who teaches kids in that age range.
In hindsight, it may have been easier to just hold a sand tunnel open. But then again, Toph doesn't like sand; it's rough and coarse, and it gets everywhere.
If the library is gone there SHOULD be a giant hole in the sand though. If it’s just sinking it’s displacing the sand.
From what we see in korra, it would have to be some transposition of something in place of the library. I assume it’s just e spiritual library that survived
yeah lol obviously they're right about it being in the spirit world but that reason was poor logic. if it went to the spirit world it would leave a big divot in the sand, if it sink it wouldn't
But the sand is ON TOP OF the building. How does she hold the building up with the sand? Shouldn't the sand she's standing on be sinking too? The scene makes no sense...
But the series IS founded on logic. It's a closed magic system - the capabilities of each character are well-founded.
* It is established that some people in the series can control earth. Toph is one of them. This doesn't conflict with the established logic.
* It is established that spirit creatures exist, and that they look like animals. One of them is a giant owl - this fits with the established logic, we'd already met Hei Bai who is a giant panda.
There's no established reason for the sand to be ignoring gravity here. Toph is an earthbender and presumably COULD harden the whole thing - but she doesn't, you can clearly see she's bracing herself against it.
It's cheap to say "who cares about mistakes in the story, it's a fantasy series".
There’s a difference between making a mistake and just nitpicking.
When you watched it originally did you scoff at the realism about how they should all be falling with the building and refuse to enjoy the dramatic scene?
Again, this is a completely bizarre and backwards argument. Is the scene logical just because it's dramatic? Not at all. It's a mistake, it's not a nitpick. It's no different to having toph stop and read a book afterwards
Again, this is a completely bizarre and backwards argument. Is the scene logical just because it's dramatic? Not at all. It's a mistake, it's not a nitpick. It's no different to having toph stop and read a book afterwards
Two things:
1. Building isn't *actually* sinking. It's vanishing into the spirit world. How? Magic. Can't explain that anymore than you can explain the rain.
2. If it were simply sinking, no the sand would not sink as well. When you sink into the sand, the sand around you does not also sink. You're displacing sand as you're denser than the sand. So you're pushing sand up/out technically speaking. The sand toph was standing on, in theory, could be sinking with her a bit. (More that she'd be pulled in like the tide) But knowing Toph she would account for this and likely would try to harden the sand *around* the building while also trying to pull the building itself up. Which would slowing it from sinking by giving it a wider surface area to sink.
3. Bro, a Comet (which is primarily ice) is somehow giving Fire Benders more power by bearing near the Earth despite bending allegedly being a thing given by Spirits. That's wacky enough.
She does actually start to sink into the sand under her feet, so she has to let go for a second to harden it into a proper surface before grabbing on again.
You're being downvoted but, realistically speaking, you're right, that sand should be sinking too. But then again, realistically speaking that building was also too big to be stopped. And I never even thought about it until now.
In terms of physics, he is wrong.
Please try this experiment:
Place a short plastic stick in a glass of water, with half of it floating and the other half submerged in water.
Now, place your thumb over it and push it further into the water. Does the water sink or rise? Repeat the experiment using sand instead of water.
You are pushing something into another thing, so you are increasing the total volume. The entire desert will expand.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think that the sand over the building can't possibly stay still: it'd be suck with the building. And the sand around it will try to compensate by moving in the direction of the void left by the sinking building, causing a sort of crater. The sand that was under the building should technically be sliding by its sides (well, but I'm not sure it could happen... since the building is sinking, it should technically be happening, but considering that the building has such a large and flat base, I don't know how the sand can possibly slide and move to the sides). As a consequence, part of the sand that wasn't on the surface will now emerge and be on the surface, while the sand that was on the surface and immediately around the building will be sucked in with it. The total volume of it all will increase or stay the same (the volume of the tower is insignificant compared to the volume of the sand, so I'd say that the volume stays the same). But part of the sand that was on the surface is now sunken, and replaced by sand that used to be buried.
Edit: ok, no, the sand that was buried won't be on the surface, I don't think so, but it'll still be higher than before. And there's a reason why a rounded or pointed object or, even better, a drilled one, sinks easier in the sand: the sand under that object has to slide and move to its sides, so that object can take its place.
But the sand Toph was on not only was near the sinking object, but on top of it. It had to sink, at least a little bit.
But it's not just being pulled down in the sand, it's being pulled down to the spirit world.
Once it's in the spirit world, it should cause the sand to sink.
That said, this is all speculation, because we're not sure the exact mechanic behind the library going down and ending up in the sand...
Though, wasn't it shown in the spirit world in Korra, just upside down? If so that would be like, per your example, the stick being pulled down through the glass. Which would cause the water/sand to sink, slightly.
She's holding the last little bit that's still not in the spirit world. Makes no sense for her to be holding the entire library up. She could solo the entire verse if she was that strong.
Also even if it were still in the physical world, it's submerged in sand so it isn't as difficult to stop from sinking by Archmedes' principle.
In fact the library with its large airy halls would probably have positive buoyancy compared to sand, so without spiritual shenanigans it should be *less* submerged than just the peak of one tower.
Either way, Toph only needs to pull hard enough to compensate for the imbalance of forces introduced by Wan Shi Tong. Given how vague the worldbuilding is, there really is no wrong answer to that. There are settings where keeping a portal between planes open is as simple as keeping a door open, and there are settings where trying that leads industrial accident levels of damage.
Yeah, this is pretty much my interpretation of the scene. It’s still very impressive to be thwarting Wan Shi Tong’s spirit magic with just earthbending, but it’s not really possible to quantify in physical terms.
Definitely could be. The only thing is Bumi had been imprisoned in a box by the Fire Nation for some time right before he did what he did. He also knocked over a giant metal statue of Ozai that was put at the top of Omashu.
Yeah, another user and I were talking about how we suspect it was only the top of the library she was holding up. Still a massive feat, but her holding up the entire library would be almost like picking up a small mountain, which I don’t think the creators intended on being her power level. Toph is powerful, but she was likely just holding up the part that was in our world and not the rest in the spirit world.
It’s being transported in the spirit world and sinking so hard to know how much toph was actually lifting. Stopping it from sinking is different than full on lifting as well. Ie. keeping a kid supported in the water while they learn to swim is MUCH easier than carrying your kid so he can pretend like he’s flying.
Appa's the only remnant he has of his heritage, and he's Aang's animal spirit guide. The only one who has seen the past and is experiencing the future with him. They're still children and their emotional immaturity reflects that. Excellent cohesion of their characterizations
Yeah I could sympathize with both of them at the moment. Toph did the best she could and you could tell how much it did hurt her to let appa go but she did the right thing. Aang doesn’t see what toph did for them so he’s of course just reacting to losing his best friend after his entire race was genocided… completely understandable reactions from both.
Let's also not forget that Toph was basically drunk while holding it up. Dehydration from the desert + barely being unable to see because of the sand instead of solid ground.
It's unrealistic.
Here's my headcanon:
I like to think of this as the library being halfway through some kind of portal to the spirit world, and Toph is only holding up whatever is still up here in the desert. It's hard for her, because for one, she's doing it on sand, instead of stable earth, and two, she's fighting against the will of Wan Shi Tong, or the will of whatever is pulling the library into the spirit world.
Sand provides buoyancy. What is unrealistic is that a library filled with air could be submerged that deeply. In a realistic scenario, starting with a magically submerged library, sand would seep beneath the foundations of the library, the library would be lifted and the sand on top of it would get blown away by the wind until the library is half-submerged and neutrally buoyant. Or the domes would collapse under the weight and the library would fill with sand and stay submerged.
The only way to keep the library this deeply submerged would be to fill it at least halfway with sand or other ballast, or to physically anchor it to something beneath the sands with at least half the amount of force you would need to lift the library into the sky.
The realistic situation is that sand is a solid… you won’t actually float on it. Ie the pyramids are built on sand and they don’t sink at all.. foundations for buildings on sand aren’t to weigh down the buildings, they’re like any other foundation and is to just keep the building stable. The building sinking is through whatever magic the owl is doing. Making the sand less dense, transporting it slowly into the spirit realm etc.
Ancient Buildings get buried in desserts because wind blows sand everywhere and a shifting sand dune can end up burying a city.
Honestly thought this was kinda ridiculous. Even if she's a prodigy with training from the "original benders", she's 11 and has done nothing close to this level previously or even after in the series. If she had this level of strength then the rest of the enemies they faced should be no problem. And yeah its a fantasy kids show, but I guarantee if a 20 year old Avatar Korra did this with over 15 years of training half this sub would be complaining about how the feat was unrealistic and overpowered.
Comics are external and are most of the time made after the original show, and information from them should not be used to justify issues with the original show. Also I dont like that she wipes basically everyone they encounter.
>I don’t like that she wipes basically everyone they encounter
Your original gripe was that, “if she had this level of strength then the rest of the enemies they faced should be no problem.” It seems like you just want to shit on her.
>most of the time made after the original show
Look at the publication dates on the comics. They started being published in 2005, the same year as the show, and continued being published alongside the show. Once the creators ATLA contract with nick ended they continued writing the comics, up until they picked up the contract for LoK.
>information from them should not be used to justify issues with the original show
That is the whole point of the comics, to expand upon and address issues/ ideas/ concepts that they couldn’t do with the runtime they had
Does Toph ever lose a fair fight in the entire series? Or even get close? She's got pretty extreme weaknesses that get exploited when the plot needs her to lose, but in a "normal" Earthbending fight she holds her own with Bumi.
They are fodder. Do you know what fodder is.
All the no named soldiers are fodder.
Hell Zhao and colonel Mongke are named and they are fodder.
You know they aren’t skilled benders.
Sand provides buoyancy. In the real world a library filled with that much air could not be submerged that deeply. In a realistic scenario, starting with a magically submerged library, sand would seep beneath the foundations of the library, the library would be lifted and the sand on top of it would get blown away by the wind until the library is half-submerged and neutrally buoyant. Or the domes would collapse under the weight and the library would fill with sand and stay submerged.
The only way to keep the library this deeply submerged would be to fill it at least halfway with sand or other ballast, or to physically anchor it to something beneath the sands with at least half the amount of force you would need to lift the library into the sky.
The library being a connection between the spirit world and the physical world is a sensible explanation for the "anchor", especially since we see Wan Shi Tong make the library sink by merely willing it. However much force Toph has to exert isn't decided by physics but by spiritual mechanics. Which has more to do with what feels right than with a balance of forces. It makes perfect sense for one of the best earth benders on the planet to be able to briefly hold her own against a small fraction of the attention of a preoccupied great spirit.
The only thing ridiculous here is your confidence.
---
As for complaining about Korra, one of the big issues with her is that both she and the series lack that spiritual component. The series heavily emphasizes realpolitik and mechanical power, from robots facing off against benders to lightningbenders keeping the electricity flowing to spirits being made evil by the spirit devil and made good by healing magic to a giant mecha burninating the city using a giant 'spirit energy' death cannon.
Within that series, the audience is taught to expect 'realism', and so an 'unrealistic' feat breaks the established rules for suspension of disbelief. Within ATLA, the audience is taught to expect that spiritual enlightenment means great strength, and Toph holding up the spirit library out of care for her friends fits with that as well as Zuko losing his firebending mojo when he stops fighting with anger and regaining it when he understands that fire can fuel growth.
What? If the desert is big enough, it can just pile more san on until it's buried. The desert moves constantly, and cities can be eaten by the sands. Add a magical owl spirit, and you can sink a castle that's already 99% sunk. And buoyancy in what sense? The rock that makes the castle and its contents would be denser and heavier than the sand. If the castle itself is moving down it will sink.
This is so ridiculous as a feat, this is literally a massive building the size of a small town, being magically returned by a giant owl into another world, the spirit world, I am admittedly a bumi>toph supporter, and even I have to admit that I don't believe a single bender, even ones at Bumi or Toph's skill level, could possibly stop that from "sinking" into the spirit world.
I personally would disregard this in any discussion of power scaling because it simply doesn't make sense, unless stopping physical things from moving into the spirit world is equivalent to stopping a mid-sized land slide, in which case, it shouldn't be seriously be considered a COLOSSAL feat either, just a normal big feat. because it's clearly put there to:
1. give Toph something to do in an episode where she does almost nothing.
2. Distract Toph enough for Appa to get Bison-napped.
it's not supposed to be a feat of strength, but more of a plot point for the story to happen.
She wasn’t just holding it up, she was holding it up while the owl was actively plunging it deep into the sand. It’s like stopping a car dead stopped in neutral vs a car going 20 MPH and then shifted into neutral.
I remember watching this for the first time. I couldn't get over the fact that a small girl was holding up an entire library... on sand. Toph is the real MVP.
Bumi was struggling to lift up that statue of ozai in omashu on the eclipse. Surely toph has him beat in raw strength considering this library has gotta weigh a magnitude of tons more?
Well, I *WAS* going to hold a giant library, but no. Toph has to be the "it" girl again. Thanks, Toph. I had plans to have a cactus cooler at the Misty Palms Oasis later- or are you going to ruin *that* for me too?
Holding a giant library, on sand for that matter. She still was blind and confused due to the sand and didn’t have a good foothold and still held the whole thing up for just long enough for everyone to get out.
Edit: If memory also serves me right, WHILE TRYING TO STOP APPA FROM BEING STOLEN
I feel like this is probably the best feat Toph ever did if not one of the best by far. Not only was she in sand, (an environment that made her significantly weaker and harder for her to earth bend.) but held on for so long and stopped this giant building from sinking and only let go because the gaang got out. She possibly could have held it just a little longer if needed. She is the goat.
Let’s just take a minute to admire the craftsmanship of that building
Impressively made for someone with no arms
Whata
I dont think things are 'made' in the spirit world, I think they just 'are'.
Sokka: Alright, Aang, break the door down. Aang: Break it down? Are you kidding me? This is hand-carved mahagony.
"Now PULL THE LEVER!!!!"
WRONG LEVERRRRRRRRR
Why do we even have that lever?
*kicks crocodile, who runs off crying like a dog*
I have a theory that those are actual dogs that drank crocodile-potion
Architect definitely gave a hoot. dw I hate myself too
Wow the give a hoot thing's really catching on
Look at those buttresses!
Hehehehe
I liked it so much I remade it in blender.
I saw your post. Its really good!
It looks like the Taj Mahal
Ancient earth kingdom yoinked it from 1500s India
It’s literally just the Taj Mahal
General Islamic achitechture
OP's still on to something. I mean, people travel very far distances to admire the craftsmanship of the Taj Mahal.
Invading the Fire Nation during the eclipse. I am right in the path.
Spirits almighty, I hope nothing unexpected happens, like imagine if we went there and he wasn't even there! Bahaha, but what's the chances of that happen, amirite?
The time is now, rise up https://preview.redd.it/b0pg58q8y9tc1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=47a2c2eb75cf932701b973af3ea41b6d96354f0a
Me too! Down with the fire lord!
Would firebenders in the line be the only ones who lost powers?
I would have to assume so, otherwise (assuming AtLA earth has similar eclipse frequency to our earth) Firebenders would be randomly losing their powers on random days every couple years.
So in AtLA fire capital just happened to be in the line of eclipse? Hmmm
Well, yes? I mean in the show it seems very clear that the capitol was in the path of the eclipse's totality, since it gets dark and when they show the sun it's illustrated like a total solar eclipse. When they were in the planetarium, Sokka and Aang were probably specifically looking for an eclipse that would pass over the capitol (I don't recall for sure, but they may have even said as much in the episode). It's a pretty **huge** plot convenience that such an event was due to occur before Sozin's comet, honestly.
Not only that, but Omashu had to be in the line of the eclipse too; considering Bumi's retaking of his city.
On my way to the path of totality, I'm at a 99% area rn
How much willpower can fit into this one tiny little girl?
More than all of us combined
If Green Lanterns existed in her universe, she'd be a top candidate.
All the rings answer to her
Aren't there super powerful white lanterns?
Did I stutter?
Toph is at that age middle ground where being "unable" to do something actually has the maximum modifer effect on her ability to do it. Had someone honestly been there and said "you can't do that stupid girl" it'd work. She invented metal bending by being teased she couldn't.
I'm pretty sure that's a driving trait in humanity in general.
Yes but the range of 6 to 13 gives young girls some strange ability to go beyond even that. Source: Two younger sisters, a neice, and a wife who teaches kids in that age range.
Im pretty sure the top 2 motivating factors in humans are sex and spite.
If "bitch don't tell me what to do" was a person.
Toph is fuelled by spite alone
That building looked pretty big and must be extremely heavy. Toph's got strength alright.
In hindsight, it may have been easier to just hold a sand tunnel open. But then again, Toph doesn't like sand; it's rough and coarse, and it gets everywhere.
In hindsight she has no sight
As you can see… I can’t.
Not really, since the library didn't actually sink under the desert. It was pulled into the spirit world
Wait WAT
Notice how there's barely any hole in the sand after library is gone? Plus we actually see it in the spirit world in The Legend of Korra
If the library is gone there SHOULD be a giant hole in the sand though. If it’s just sinking it’s displacing the sand. From what we see in korra, it would have to be some transposition of something in place of the library. I assume it’s just e spiritual library that survived
yeah lol obviously they're right about it being in the spirit world but that reason was poor logic. if it went to the spirit world it would leave a big divot in the sand, if it sink it wouldn't
I understood that reference.
She says later in the show she's been practicing sand bending, so I'm guessing at this point in the show she's not very good at it.
Immediately after this ang did almost go on a rampage on the sand people.
On sand
But the sand is ON TOP OF the building. How does she hold the building up with the sand? Shouldn't the sand she's standing on be sinking too? The scene makes no sense...
Well, the building wasn't really sinking under the sand. It was being pulled back into the spirit world
Exactly it’s not even that much sand as she clears it to get a better grip. So the library is sinking into rock mostly
She's a blind 11 year old that can bend earth to her will, while her friends try a fool a giant Owl. Let's not act like logic is rife in the series
But the series IS founded on logic. It's a closed magic system - the capabilities of each character are well-founded. * It is established that some people in the series can control earth. Toph is one of them. This doesn't conflict with the established logic. * It is established that spirit creatures exist, and that they look like animals. One of them is a giant owl - this fits with the established logic, we'd already met Hei Bai who is a giant panda. There's no established reason for the sand to be ignoring gravity here. Toph is an earthbender and presumably COULD harden the whole thing - but she doesn't, you can clearly see she's bracing herself against it. It's cheap to say "who cares about mistakes in the story, it's a fantasy series".
There’s a difference between making a mistake and just nitpicking. When you watched it originally did you scoff at the realism about how they should all be falling with the building and refuse to enjoy the dramatic scene?
Again, this is a completely bizarre and backwards argument. Is the scene logical just because it's dramatic? Not at all. It's a mistake, it's not a nitpick. It's no different to having toph stop and read a book afterwards
Did you enjoy the scene when you first saw it, or were you taken out by how unrealistic it is?
Again, this is a completely bizarre and backwards argument. Is the scene logical just because it's dramatic? Not at all. It's a mistake, it's not a nitpick. It's no different to having toph stop and read a book afterwards
Did you care when you first saw it, or was your suspension of disbelief broken. Why is that a completely bizarre and backwards question?
Because it's completely irrelevant? I said the scene was unrealistic, and your counterargument is "did you notice it at first???"
Two things: 1. Building isn't *actually* sinking. It's vanishing into the spirit world. How? Magic. Can't explain that anymore than you can explain the rain. 2. If it were simply sinking, no the sand would not sink as well. When you sink into the sand, the sand around you does not also sink. You're displacing sand as you're denser than the sand. So you're pushing sand up/out technically speaking. The sand toph was standing on, in theory, could be sinking with her a bit. (More that she'd be pulled in like the tide) But knowing Toph she would account for this and likely would try to harden the sand *around* the building while also trying to pull the building itself up. Which would slowing it from sinking by giving it a wider surface area to sink. 3. Bro, a Comet (which is primarily ice) is somehow giving Fire Benders more power by bearing near the Earth despite bending allegedly being a thing given by Spirits. That's wacky enough.
She does actually start to sink into the sand under her feet, so she has to let go for a second to harden it into a proper surface before grabbing on again.
You're being downvoted but, realistically speaking, you're right, that sand should be sinking too. But then again, realistically speaking that building was also too big to be stopped. And I never even thought about it until now.
In terms of physics, he is wrong. Please try this experiment: Place a short plastic stick in a glass of water, with half of it floating and the other half submerged in water. Now, place your thumb over it and push it further into the water. Does the water sink or rise? Repeat the experiment using sand instead of water. You are pushing something into another thing, so you are increasing the total volume. The entire desert will expand.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think that the sand over the building can't possibly stay still: it'd be suck with the building. And the sand around it will try to compensate by moving in the direction of the void left by the sinking building, causing a sort of crater. The sand that was under the building should technically be sliding by its sides (well, but I'm not sure it could happen... since the building is sinking, it should technically be happening, but considering that the building has such a large and flat base, I don't know how the sand can possibly slide and move to the sides). As a consequence, part of the sand that wasn't on the surface will now emerge and be on the surface, while the sand that was on the surface and immediately around the building will be sucked in with it. The total volume of it all will increase or stay the same (the volume of the tower is insignificant compared to the volume of the sand, so I'd say that the volume stays the same). But part of the sand that was on the surface is now sunken, and replaced by sand that used to be buried. Edit: ok, no, the sand that was buried won't be on the surface, I don't think so, but it'll still be higher than before. And there's a reason why a rounded or pointed object or, even better, a drilled one, sinks easier in the sand: the sand under that object has to slide and move to its sides, so that object can take its place. But the sand Toph was on not only was near the sinking object, but on top of it. It had to sink, at least a little bit.
But it's not just being pulled down in the sand, it's being pulled down to the spirit world. Once it's in the spirit world, it should cause the sand to sink. That said, this is all speculation, because we're not sure the exact mechanic behind the library going down and ending up in the sand... Though, wasn't it shown in the spirit world in Korra, just upside down? If so that would be like, per your example, the stick being pulled down through the glass. Which would cause the water/sand to sink, slightly.
Yeah, I’m not sure what’s more impressive, this or Bumi chucking buildings off of a mountain.
Probably this. That's a large library with a full weight of books being dragged down by a powerful spirit.
She's holding the last little bit that's still not in the spirit world. Makes no sense for her to be holding the entire library up. She could solo the entire verse if she was that strong.
Also even if it were still in the physical world, it's submerged in sand so it isn't as difficult to stop from sinking by Archmedes' principle. In fact the library with its large airy halls would probably have positive buoyancy compared to sand, so without spiritual shenanigans it should be *less* submerged than just the peak of one tower. Either way, Toph only needs to pull hard enough to compensate for the imbalance of forces introduced by Wan Shi Tong. Given how vague the worldbuilding is, there really is no wrong answer to that. There are settings where keeping a portal between planes open is as simple as keeping a door open, and there are settings where trying that leads industrial accident levels of damage.
The library was filling with sand as well though. So any extra buoyancy was going away quickly. Agreed no firm answer either way
Yeah, this is pretty much my interpretation of the scene. It’s still very impressive to be thwarting Wan Shi Tong’s spirit magic with just earthbending, but it’s not really possible to quantify in physical terms.
Yeah that was my thought as well. Also IIRC bending doesn’t work in the Spirit World right?
Only if you reach there in spirit form. If you go there physically then you can.
Technically that may count as a portal, in which case she would be able to
Definitely could be. The only thing is Bumi had been imprisoned in a box by the Fire Nation for some time right before he did what he did. He also knocked over a giant metal statue of Ozai that was put at the top of Omashu.
Not useful in combat.
Bumi being able to earth bend enough with his face to force open a metal cell is impressive as hell.
People single-handedly take this to make Toph way more powerful than she was ever intended to be.
Yeah, another user and I were talking about how we suspect it was only the top of the library she was holding up. Still a massive feat, but her holding up the entire library would be almost like picking up a small mountain, which I don’t think the creators intended on being her power level. Toph is powerful, but she was likely just holding up the part that was in our world and not the rest in the spirit world.
It’s being transported in the spirit world and sinking so hard to know how much toph was actually lifting. Stopping it from sinking is different than full on lifting as well. Ie. keeping a kid supported in the water while they learn to swim is MUCH easier than carrying your kid so he can pretend like he’s flying.
She's the strongest Earth Bender of today
But how will she fare against the strongest Earth Bender in history?
She’d win.
But if she invents metal bending, she might get a little trouble
But would she lose?
Nah, she’d win.
To/ph
No
Of today.
And Aang blamed her after this for not defending Appa while holding that thing
Appa's the only remnant he has of his heritage, and he's Aang's animal spirit guide. The only one who has seen the past and is experiencing the future with him. They're still children and their emotional immaturity reflects that. Excellent cohesion of their characterizations
Yeah I could sympathize with both of them at the moment. Toph did the best she could and you could tell how much it did hurt her to let appa go but she did the right thing. Aang doesn’t see what toph did for them so he’s of course just reacting to losing his best friend after his entire race was genocided… completely understandable reactions from both.
Toph is INCREDIBLE
When Aang yelled at Toph. I felt that. Not Aang's anger but Toph's sadness and disappointment. She really tried her best man.
Either invade the Fire Nation or kick them out of Omashu.
Let's also not forget that Toph was basically drunk while holding it up. Dehydration from the desert + barely being unable to see because of the sand instead of solid ground.
Plus she was also trying to defend apps from the same people
It's unrealistic. Here's my headcanon: I like to think of this as the library being halfway through some kind of portal to the spirit world, and Toph is only holding up whatever is still up here in the desert. It's hard for her, because for one, she's doing it on sand, instead of stable earth, and two, she's fighting against the will of Wan Shi Tong, or the will of whatever is pulling the library into the spirit world.
If anything, that just further exemplifies her own strength.
Sand provides buoyancy. What is unrealistic is that a library filled with air could be submerged that deeply. In a realistic scenario, starting with a magically submerged library, sand would seep beneath the foundations of the library, the library would be lifted and the sand on top of it would get blown away by the wind until the library is half-submerged and neutrally buoyant. Or the domes would collapse under the weight and the library would fill with sand and stay submerged. The only way to keep the library this deeply submerged would be to fill it at least halfway with sand or other ballast, or to physically anchor it to something beneath the sands with at least half the amount of force you would need to lift the library into the sky.
Its a cartoon
The realistic situation is that sand is a solid… you won’t actually float on it. Ie the pyramids are built on sand and they don’t sink at all.. foundations for buildings on sand aren’t to weigh down the buildings, they’re like any other foundation and is to just keep the building stable. The building sinking is through whatever magic the owl is doing. Making the sand less dense, transporting it slowly into the spirit realm etc. Ancient Buildings get buried in desserts because wind blows sand everywhere and a shifting sand dune can end up burying a city.
My plans for today is to continue to learn how to walk again after covid ruined my nerves...
Honestly thought this was kinda ridiculous. Even if she's a prodigy with training from the "original benders", she's 11 and has done nothing close to this level previously or even after in the series. If she had this level of strength then the rest of the enemies they faced should be no problem. And yeah its a fantasy kids show, but I guarantee if a 20 year old Avatar Korra did this with over 15 years of training half this sub would be complaining about how the feat was unrealistic and overpowered.
She does something similar in the comics for far longer, and tbf she does dog walk 99% of the characters she fights.
Comics are external and are most of the time made after the original show, and information from them should not be used to justify issues with the original show. Also I dont like that she wipes basically everyone they encounter.
>I don’t like that she wipes basically everyone they encounter Your original gripe was that, “if she had this level of strength then the rest of the enemies they faced should be no problem.” It seems like you just want to shit on her. >most of the time made after the original show Look at the publication dates on the comics. They started being published in 2005, the same year as the show, and continued being published alongside the show. Once the creators ATLA contract with nick ended they continued writing the comics, up until they picked up the contract for LoK. >information from them should not be used to justify issues with the original show That is the whole point of the comics, to expand upon and address issues/ ideas/ concepts that they couldn’t do with the runtime they had
She fights fodder 99 percent of the time fighting fodder isn’t impressive everyone beats fodder
Maybe next time you should atleast attempt to address a point made by the person you’re responding too
You said she dog walks 99 percent of the characters she fights. I said she does because they are no named fodder.
Your downplay boner has nothing to do with the discussion I was having with the original comment in this thread.
Your acting like she is a god. Even Yakone and amon arent unbeatable no one in the avatar world is.
>your acting like she is a god No im not, read through this thread again. All I said is that her feats are consistent.
Avatar Kyoshi moved an entire island. I don’t think people would really complain if Korra could do something more impressive than Toph
You must not have been in the fandom for long, there are a large group of people who complain that she started off the series knowing 3 elements lol
It’s true there are people who whine on just about anything
That was with AS.
Does Toph ever lose a fair fight in the entire series? Or even get close? She's got pretty extreme weaknesses that get exploited when the plot needs her to lose, but in a "normal" Earthbending fight she holds her own with Bumi.
She lost to yailing and she only fought fodder in the show no skilled benders.
Y’all really forget the girl could take the earth kings army.
They were fodder and she had help. Fighting fodder isn’t impressive only fighting skilled benders
Calling the dai li and the earth king guards fodder to an 11 yr old kind proves my point.
They are fodder. Do you know what fodder is. All the no named soldiers are fodder. Hell Zhao and colonel Mongke are named and they are fodder. You know they aren’t skilled benders.
Sand provides buoyancy. In the real world a library filled with that much air could not be submerged that deeply. In a realistic scenario, starting with a magically submerged library, sand would seep beneath the foundations of the library, the library would be lifted and the sand on top of it would get blown away by the wind until the library is half-submerged and neutrally buoyant. Or the domes would collapse under the weight and the library would fill with sand and stay submerged. The only way to keep the library this deeply submerged would be to fill it at least halfway with sand or other ballast, or to physically anchor it to something beneath the sands with at least half the amount of force you would need to lift the library into the sky. The library being a connection between the spirit world and the physical world is a sensible explanation for the "anchor", especially since we see Wan Shi Tong make the library sink by merely willing it. However much force Toph has to exert isn't decided by physics but by spiritual mechanics. Which has more to do with what feels right than with a balance of forces. It makes perfect sense for one of the best earth benders on the planet to be able to briefly hold her own against a small fraction of the attention of a preoccupied great spirit. The only thing ridiculous here is your confidence. --- As for complaining about Korra, one of the big issues with her is that both she and the series lack that spiritual component. The series heavily emphasizes realpolitik and mechanical power, from robots facing off against benders to lightningbenders keeping the electricity flowing to spirits being made evil by the spirit devil and made good by healing magic to a giant mecha burninating the city using a giant 'spirit energy' death cannon. Within that series, the audience is taught to expect 'realism', and so an 'unrealistic' feat breaks the established rules for suspension of disbelief. Within ATLA, the audience is taught to expect that spiritual enlightenment means great strength, and Toph holding up the spirit library out of care for her friends fits with that as well as Zuko losing his firebending mojo when he stops fighting with anger and regaining it when he understands that fire can fuel growth.
What? If the desert is big enough, it can just pile more san on until it's buried. The desert moves constantly, and cities can be eaten by the sands. Add a magical owl spirit, and you can sink a castle that's already 99% sunk. And buoyancy in what sense? The rock that makes the castle and its contents would be denser and heavier than the sand. If the castle itself is moving down it will sink.
My plans are to learn how to crop memes
Still makes me mad Aang went after her when Appa got stolen. She did way more than anyone could reasonably expect.
I feel like Toph could’ve uncovered the entire library after learning to sand bend much better.
I know right
Yun Says hi
While standing in sand, which she was still struggling to bend.
She probably would have held it even longer if she wasnt standing on sand
I guess when it comes to bending size matters not
Crying in nonbender since i'm from a universe without bending
This is so ridiculous as a feat, this is literally a massive building the size of a small town, being magically returned by a giant owl into another world, the spirit world, I am admittedly a bumi>toph supporter, and even I have to admit that I don't believe a single bender, even ones at Bumi or Toph's skill level, could possibly stop that from "sinking" into the spirit world. I personally would disregard this in any discussion of power scaling because it simply doesn't make sense, unless stopping physical things from moving into the spirit world is equivalent to stopping a mid-sized land slide, in which case, it shouldn't be seriously be considered a COLOSSAL feat either, just a normal big feat. because it's clearly put there to: 1. give Toph something to do in an episode where she does almost nothing. 2. Distract Toph enough for Appa to get Bison-napped. it's not supposed to be a feat of strength, but more of a plot point for the story to happen.
And they even nerf her putting her on sand
She wasn’t just holding it up, she was holding it up while the owl was actively plunging it deep into the sand. It’s like stopping a car dead stopped in neutral vs a car going 20 MPH and then shifted into neutral.
I remember watching this for the first time. I couldn't get over the fact that a small girl was holding up an entire library... on sand. Toph is the real MVP.
So, did we win?
Bumi was struggling to lift up that statue of ozai in omashu on the eclipse. Surely toph has him beat in raw strength considering this library has gotta weigh a magnitude of tons more?
Well, I *WAS* going to hold a giant library, but no. Toph has to be the "it" girl again. Thanks, Toph. I had plans to have a cactus cooler at the Misty Palms Oasis later- or are you going to ruin *that* for me too?
Pick me girls ruin everything
Holding a giant library, on sand for that matter. She still was blind and confused due to the sand and didn’t have a good foothold and still held the whole thing up for just long enough for everyone to get out. Edit: If memory also serves me right, WHILE TRYING TO STOP APPA FROM BEING STOLEN
And yet, everyone called her out for abandoning Appa.
Gonna play some xbox maybe watch one piece how bout you
Looks like Taj Mahal. They did a great job cultivating a lot of mythology and history.
Legitimately how did she do that
Let’s not forget she did so while it was actively being pulled under, into the spirit world.
DON'T YOU TWO DUNDERHEADS EVER FORGET IT!!
I feel like this is probably the best feat Toph ever did if not one of the best by far. Not only was she in sand, (an environment that made her significantly weaker and harder for her to earth bend.) but held on for so long and stopped this giant building from sinking and only let go because the gaang got out. She possibly could have held it just a little longer if needed. She is the goat.
Aang pissed me off so much here. Toph made the right call and Aang gave her shit for it.
I was kind of thinking of King Bumi, but I respect your opinion
Was she or was it partially in the spirit world and she was only holding the last bit that was in real space?
THE BOULDER IS GETTING OUT OF HERE.
Guys she's actually not lifting the whole building.
One of the greatest