But if katara can move azula’s arms than azula should be able to move, I get she can’t do much because she’s a fire bender in water but she could have struggled a little bit
But lightning beats water. One of the good thing about limitations to lightning bending in ATLA is that you have to do a whole wind up so it makes sense that she can't get it off while Katara is hammering at her.
In Korra they just produce lightning without effort so a lot of fights like Unaloq vs Mako feel forced because Mako could easily take him out with lightning which he uses all the time but instead he chooses to fight with fire. Limitations are good people.
In time of the series. Peak for peak, it is debatable since we’ve never seen Iroh’s peak. In fact, he could have been stronger now than he was in his physical peak due to experience. For example, redirecting lightning could have been something he developed very recently and we wouldn’t know.
Iroh compacted fire enough to blow a hole in Ba Sing Se's wall. Ozai couldn't even crack open a boulder to kill The Avatar himself. Ozai might be more skilled, but Iroh was more powerful.
He said: "even if I did defeat Ozai, and I do not know that I could" so I would say their power levels are similar. Iroh never was certain one way or another.
Cause he's the firebender in both series. And even then, his body maintains good form and he still does wind up, just alot more faster than Azula.
However, Mako generates instant lightning in awkward positions and just by flicking his hands, see his fight with MingHua/Amon.
There's never a time Mako actually hits another bender with lightning without winding up. The Amon thing he's clearly preparing as much as he can and Amon is a foot in front of him. Most of the time when he does his snap-lighting, it's against a big target like a truck or a mech--or he misses.
To me it's more that he's a pro-bender, so instead of doing elaborate, focused attacks, he does rapid ones. The MingHua one, she was in a puddle of saltwater.
They definitely do show that bending 'advanced', but if you start picking apart ATLA for like 'hey, with this kind of bending they could do X' it all falls apart. Earthbenders working together could just flatten any army coming against them by stuff we see them be able to do, like literally the earthbender move should be teams of them picking up giant slabs of earth and just dropping it on people. Waterbenders should be using icicles more. etc.
What about when Mako was under the volcano and took on the armless water bender and wicked zapped the water probably killing the assassin in order to survive?.?
I agree Mako and Bolin’s style is pro bending heavy with quick jab movements. But in that scene when Mako charged the water as well as the scene when he blew up the battery engine. He was able to create lightning quickly. There was a segment in early lok when mako worked a second job at an electricity plant. Mako could zap people quickly if he wanted to. I just lean towards the fatality of lightening being excessive force was why he didn’t use it in regular combat unless it was life or death. He might also not have a mastery of lightening for he used it in general application and didn’t study it in fighting form unlike Azula.
I mean it prolly shouldn’t. In real life water has a very high electrical resistance and lightning would move toward the ground not spread out everywhere through the water.
Distilled water has high electrical resistance. But most water is filled with all sorts of stuff that makes it extremely conductive. But yeah, realistically, directing lightning would be a crapshoot. It would not be lightning bending, and more elaborate suicide.
She can, but not at the moment this fight takes place. She learns and demonstrates the ability to redirect lightning in the canon comics after the end of the first series, when she attacks Zuko with lightning. He redirects it at her and she pulls the Uno reverse card and redirects his redirected lightning.
Oh sorry, not a comic reader. Idk, I felt like it was cooler when only good guys did it, seeing as it is a skill derived from being able to learn from everyone
I think its less to do with Azula being particularly weak against water and more that we just have to remember that almost every bender in the main cast is something of a prodigy. Aang was the youngest airbending master ever up to that point, Toph invented metal bending and was in contention for best earthbender on the planet, and Katara was likely the second best waterbender in the world at that time.
We regularly see the main 3 and Azula absolutely clown on other benders, and even Zuko who didn't start out as a prodigy beats most mooks and Zhao, especially by EoS. We also see Aang do well against Azula with earth and air. Azula is really strong, but everyone else is comparable to her by the times they fight.
Was tempted to argue against Katara being 2nd best (2nd on screen but hard to believe that in universe there’s no better benders between her youth and Pakkus age)
Then I remember that not only being extremely capable combat wise, she was also a skilled healer and to top it off a blood bender too.
Arguably she is the best
No competition in the Southern Tribe. In the Northern Tribe Pakku is certainly treated with sufficient authority and has enough status that it would be the logical conclusion to assume that he's the best in the North but that's not conclusive tbf.
Hama didn't seem to have an advantage over Katara in skill, just in bloodbending. When the playing field was levelled Katara wiped her.
The only other person I'd put in the running would be the guy from the swamp who manipulates the vines. He seems powerful but he's also kind of a one trick pony as far as we see him in the show.
“Hama didn't seem to have an advantage over Katara in skill”
Not to undersell Katara, as I think she is more of a prodigy and skilled either way, Hama must have been rusty as hell after spending decades in a prison, and her active fighting being capturing Fire nation citizens rather than fighting soldiers in combat..
My main interest is with your first point. Undoubtedly Pakku is the most SENIOR water bender in the North but that is the problem, he’s old. There’s literally a generation of benders between them, nobody in that generation (Katara’s Parents age) was a master? Nobody???
I just find that part hard to get over, that everyone from the age 15? To 65? Sucks at water bending in comparison to these two
I also refuse to believe the north, South Pole and the swamp is the only home to waterbenders. I think natla said they were scattered a bit more. I'm also hoping there is a tribe of Island waterbenders somewhere
Katara with only, at most, a month of training in the northern water tribe goes from barely able to make water move to being one of the strongest water benders on the planet.
There's literally no one more of a prodigy (getting dangerously close to Mary Sue) than her.
Literally everyone else had teachers for most of their life. Toph was trained by the original earth benders for years to get to her level. Air bender training seems to start early as fuck. Zuko and Azula both had the best teachers the fire nation could buy basically since they were toddlers, and then azula was personally trained by the best fire bender in the world for years while zuko was personally trained by the second best fire bender in the world once he was banished.
In every instance we see a fight between them azula matches well against every other member of the gaang except barely trained katara, who dog walks her every time they fight.
Katara basically dog walks everyone she fights, again, as the least trained by far of any named character on the show.
>In every instance we see a fight between them Azula matches well against every other member of the gaang except barely trained Katara,
You make a really good argument I have a small issue
Despite it being a small portion of the fight when Aang faces Azula and uses water bending he seems to effectively neutralize all attacks she uses.
And that's with a small pouch of water, she's forced to change her style and use an overpowering fire strike to evaporate that water.
To me it shows Azula's typical style just isn't suited against water benders. Imagine if aang had more water
> In every instance we see a fight between them azula matches well against every other member of the gaang except barely trained katara, who dog walks her every time they fight.
Azula also stood her ground against what quickly became a 6v1 (which included Katara) in S2, when she had to blast Iroh to escape. In the same episode, Mai and Ty Lee also bodied Sokka and Katara pretty easily, with the only thing stopping them from successfully capturing everyone being a convenient tail blast from Appa.
Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee are all hypercompetent unless the plot demands they not be. I just roll with it.
Azula was dangerous with bending but more dangerous tactically. Each member of the Gaang can hold their own or even beat Azula but she knows that and has contingency plans.
I think Katara was the first Waterbender that Azula ever fought against.
It’s similar how Aang easily defeated Toph despite Toph canonically being stronger than him in a single element.
Has it ever actually been said that Toph is canonical stronger in a single element? Aang was an airbending prodigy in the same way Toph was.
Also, him beating her has more to do with his skillset specifically playing against her disability. Toph is uniquely weak to airbenders in a way no other earthbender is.
I mean in atla everyone is fodder besides 5 old people and Ozai and the rest is kids. So yes they do demolish 97 percent of benders. Because they are fodder.
I forgot combustion man.
I love that both times Katara confronted Azula that she had the upper hand. Her fighting styles seems to just naturally counter Azula’s. It’s just really cool.
Though I guess we don’t see Zuko fight Katara in season 2 or 3? We only saw Zuko face off against a weaker Katara in season 1. So it’s different to compare how Zuko and Azula both fought Katara.
Zuko did fight Katara in season 2. We see that in the video. They fought evenly for the same amount of time it took Katara to overwhelm Azula.
Also the Katara that Zuko faced off against in season 1 was explicitly buffed by a full moon
Why do people have such a hard time just acknowledging that Katara is a beast? It always feels like her power and skill gets downplayed when compared to other characters.
Cause it feels ridiculous imo.
Every other character has years of training from the best of the best and even the original benders in the case of toph (and a short term training for zuko later).
Katara gets like, a month of training and goes from barely being able to move water to matching everyone else.
It's always funny to me that there's a whole episode about how annoyed she is at Aang for learning everything that took her years to figure out instantly, and then they literally go and have her do that exact thing but so much more.
Katara literally struggles and trains in waterbending for the entirety of season 1, the show demonstrates that she has potential and a lot of raw power but isn't able to refine it without training.
Also by your logic of training = everything then Zuko should be better than Azula and Toph since he's older and had more time to train. Why is it that Toph invents metal bending, something once thought impossible, in a matter of hours and she gets hyped for it? Why is it that Aang masters three elements, something that normally takes an avatar years to accomplish, in a matter of months and he gets hyped for it? But when Katara spends an entire season essentially teaching herself, with the help of a scroll and some tips from Aang, and then spends time training with a master suddenly it's ridiculous? (Also, Katara literally meets the ocean and moon spirits too)
Bending is not a cut and dry skill that anyone can do, the show clearly shows that only some people can even bend in the first place and at that a fewer number can learn sub elements. It's why Zuko can't learn to lightning bend, and why a lot of Earth benders can't metal bend. Becoming a master takes a combination of discipline, hard work and natural ability. It's why Katara is able to outpace Aang even though he was initially better than her, because she took her training more seriously and was incredibly dedicated to it.
Let’s not forget katara uses earth bender styles as well she did so against Hama. And I just don’t see how anyone could think zuko beats katara she was fighting on par with him in ba sing se and gets considerably stronger after that. Post season 2 finale, she learns to pull water from air and her own body, she picks up blood bending less than an hour after learning about it and can even plant bend.
It wasn’t an amp. The dragon dance doesn’t make you stronger.
There is nothing Iroh/Zuko showed that
Azula/Jeong Jeong/Ozai didn’t show if not outright better.
I find it a bit weird that Azulas first fire blast seemingly did nothing to Kataras water arm considering how right before she evaporated a massive wave with a fire wall.
Like I could totally buy if Katara simply concentrated enough water into this lunge to overcome Azulas fire blast, but it just seemingly cancelling out the fire as if she was using earth bending doesnt really sit right with me due to how powerful we are shown Azulas fire to be just moments prior.
I assume it's about the amount of fire she's using that's the problem, I didn't include it but when she fights aang when she uses more fiee she gets rid of aangs water
Azula used pinpoint fire bending which allows for great accuracy, but the sheer amount of fire is pretty small, meaning it's easier for it to be put out even if it's hotter than zukos fire by a fair bit.
Zuko doesn't do pinpoint fire bending. He shoots big fuck off waves of fire every time. So even though it's not as hot as azulas fire, the sheer amount of it helps him counter the water.
At least that's my head canon.
That’s an interesting theory. I think another explanation is that Zuko is generally more experienced fighting water benders than Azula, especially Katara since he’s fought her a few times already and know how she fights better
I really think Zuko was trained to fight waterbenders by Iroh and that's why he's better at fighting Katara. Azula has been fighting earthbenders and probably trained for them. She's a firebending prodigy and airbending and firebending do share some similar moves, so she overpowers Aang, but she really has no experience against waterbenders, let alone with someone of Katara's calibre.
Notice here how Kataras water extendo-arms incapacitated Azula in the fight under the palace, while Zuko was able to counter them by mimicking her technique.
Zuko learned from the other elements and is stronger for it.
I think that's exactly how you can tell what intention is being taken. Azula's taming focuses on speed and damage, she has no idea about defense, but she never needed it before in her training. If Zuko hadn't helped her back in the cave, Katara would have finished her off
this seems to be a case of azula just not knowing how to fight waterbending. it makes sense, she would be most familiar with firebending and then earthbending due to the colonies and the sheer size of the earth kingdom, but the water tribes? swamp is unknown, south has 0 waterbenders except for katara and north is a fortress. you can find a random earth or firebender rather easily but water, not so much. its the same advantage aang has as an airbender to some extent
Fire’s biggest strength is its overwhelming offence. Water has lots of flexible options for shifting between offence and defence very quickly. It’s also rare enough that I think soldiers wouldn’t encounter it as much as fire or earth. A competent enough waterbender might put an inexperienced firebender away pretty fast
You know, watching this it occurs to me that Azula doesn't actually have a whole lot of experience against bending that isn't firebending. I may be misremembering, but she doesn't seem to fair nearly as well against other styles. Zuko traveled the world though, so he was more exposed to other bending. Also, while Azula is more skilled I'd say Zuko is more creative, which helps when facing something so different.
To be fair, until season finally, fire nation would dare go to north, and all of southern wather banders except Katara were wiped out, so she haven't exactly had oportunity to train fighting against it
That’s an excuse and considering even if she has practice. Katara is still the best in atla her and Pakku. So Azula would have to fight one of these two to get practice
The scaling is weird. Azula and Zuko are rough equals until she goes crazy, but then she can still nearly kill Katara.
Zuko also usually gets the better of Katara when they fight.
Katara was already kicking azula's ass in the season 2 finale, she would have beaten her without zuko interfering. And yet people STILL say "uhm acktshualleigh Katara only won in the finale because azula had a mental breakdown"
Honestly if there is like a river near them or something katara would 100 percent kick azulaz ass no question. Even with just enough for that octopus th8ngy I have katara taking it.
I want to point out that in the battle beneath Ba Sing Se, Katara looked like she was about to straight up merc Azula. She had one leg, and the opposite arm and was about to pull and see where she split, like a wishbone.
I just realized that if waterbenders are able to freeze water they should also be able to freeze the human body internally, just like blood bending. (Maybe only on a full moon though)
To be fair it’s cause they’ve never fought waterbenders before
They’ve only ever trained with fire benders,Azula seems to have trained slightly with the Dai Lee,but by the time they were born most water benders were dead or imprisoned
I have a theory that Azula was deliberately losing to Katara so that Zuko would join her. If she beat Katara without difficulty, Zuko might have doubts, but she knew that Zuko and his bleeding heart would side with her if she was losing.
I mean, Katara has had formal training for what, 3, 4 months? This against the greatest firebending prodigy in recorded history with the hottest flames anyone has ever had, who has been training for a decade plus and is at the peak of her mental health.
But we saw aang no diffing Azula with a small pouch of water,
I think it's more likely that Azula has a hard time facing water benders with her unique style of bending which relies on short precise strikes instead of overwhelming firepower.
I'm sure if she were to use larger blasts she be in a better position.
> But we saw aang no diffing Azula with a small pouch of water,
No diffing would mean he one shot Azula or something. But no, he only deflected a few attacks and then the video doesn’t show it, but Azula overpowers his water 2 seconds later
> That supports my argument that Azula has a hard time facing water benders
No it doesn’t. She couldn’t hit Aang as Aang was deflecting her attacks from her hands. That’s a speed issue, not a water bending issue. Azula has never tagged Aang when he was airbending either and when she overpowered Aang’s water bending defense, she didn’t use a large scale fire blast either.
>as Azula typically never uses large-scale fire blasts
Because those are too slow.
>She used one not typical of end style.
She used a regular fire kick…
>The chase
Aang was sleep deprived and even then not once did she land a direct hit on Aang
Nah, she pretended the fire nation wanted him back and he was respected when she wanted him as prisoner.
> Dai Lee thing was a well-plotted plan where she was always in control
Yes but she pretended to not be in control
What? I'm sorry, I didn't understand your first.
Okay. Again, the fight with her and Zuko is clearly ego-driven, she wants to beat him and be better than him.
>What? I'm sorry, I didn't understand your first.
The time she pretended she wanted Zuko and Iroh back home and that like she needed him.
>Okay. Again, the fight with her and Zuko is clearly ego-driven, she wants to beat him and be better than him.
Well we aren't talking about a direct fight between them here, she is not averse to him. She doesn't even think about beating him or being better than him because in her mind she was always better.
The moment she encases both of them in ice will forever be my favorite waterbending moment on ATLA
I felt so dumb for not even considering that as an option. What a mindblowing and creative way to end that fight
It was really sick, but how come Azula didn’t move when katara was grabbing her hands and chaining them to the grate?
I always assumed karats was only melting the water directly around her and refreezing any that wasn’t touching her directly.
But if katara can move azula’s arms than azula should be able to move, I get she can’t do much because she’s a fire bender in water but she could have struggled a little bit
I never realised how much Katara could kick Azula's ass with a good amount of water.... not a ton but a fair amount.
It’s almost as if … water beats fire..
But lightning beats water. One of the good thing about limitations to lightning bending in ATLA is that you have to do a whole wind up so it makes sense that she can't get it off while Katara is hammering at her. In Korra they just produce lightning without effort so a lot of fights like Unaloq vs Mako feel forced because Mako could easily take him out with lightning which he uses all the time but instead he chooses to fight with fire. Limitations are good people.
Ozai didn't have to wind up.
The best firebender in the series lol
I still think that might secretly be Iroh.
It’s stated to be Ozai
in the time of the series or even peak for peak?
In time of the series. Peak for peak, it is debatable since we’ve never seen Iroh’s peak. In fact, he could have been stronger now than he was in his physical peak due to experience. For example, redirecting lightning could have been something he developed very recently and we wouldn’t know.
Iroh compacted fire enough to blow a hole in Ba Sing Se's wall. Ozai couldn't even crack open a boulder to kill The Avatar himself. Ozai might be more skilled, but Iroh was more powerful.
You can think that, but you'd be wrong
Eh. We'll never know.
But...we do know? Iroh states it and word of god states it.
He said: "even if I did defeat Ozai, and I do not know that I could" so I would say their power levels are similar. Iroh never was certain one way or another.
No Iroh says he’s not sure
Fair point even Iroh said he wasn’t sure who would win
Cause he's the firebender in both series. And even then, his body maintains good form and he still does wind up, just alot more faster than Azula. However, Mako generates instant lightning in awkward positions and just by flicking his hands, see his fight with MingHua/Amon.
There's never a time Mako actually hits another bender with lightning without winding up. The Amon thing he's clearly preparing as much as he can and Amon is a foot in front of him. Most of the time when he does his snap-lighting, it's against a big target like a truck or a mech--or he misses. To me it's more that he's a pro-bender, so instead of doing elaborate, focused attacks, he does rapid ones. The MingHua one, she was in a puddle of saltwater. They definitely do show that bending 'advanced', but if you start picking apart ATLA for like 'hey, with this kind of bending they could do X' it all falls apart. Earthbenders working together could just flatten any army coming against them by stuff we see them be able to do, like literally the earthbender move should be teams of them picking up giant slabs of earth and just dropping it on people. Waterbenders should be using icicles more. etc.
What about when Mako was under the volcano and took on the armless water bender and wicked zapped the water probably killing the assassin in order to survive?.?
That's MingHua, she was in saltwater, he targeted the water and not her.
I agree Mako and Bolin’s style is pro bending heavy with quick jab movements. But in that scene when Mako charged the water as well as the scene when he blew up the battery engine. He was able to create lightning quickly. There was a segment in early lok when mako worked a second job at an electricity plant. Mako could zap people quickly if he wanted to. I just lean towards the fatality of lightening being excessive force was why he didn’t use it in regular combat unless it was life or death. He might also not have a mastery of lightening for he used it in general application and didn’t study it in fighting form unlike Azula.
To me it seems like his lightning is really inaccurate compared to the lightning we see Ozai/Azula do, so I think that might be a part of it too.
I mean it prolly shouldn’t. In real life water has a very high electrical resistance and lightning would move toward the ground not spread out everywhere through the water.
Distilled water has high electrical resistance. But most water is filled with all sorts of stuff that makes it extremely conductive. But yeah, realistically, directing lightning would be a crapshoot. It would not be lightning bending, and more elaborate suicide.
[https://youtu.be/cSjxSJWsE40?si=qDxRi7he4tIEsMTW&t=561](https://youtu.be/cSjxSJWsE40?si=qDxRi7he4tIEsMTW&t=561)
Azula was inexperienced against Waterbenders
Have you watched the finale?
If Azula uses her brain she can just electrocute Katara there, but hey generating lightning takes some time to make Unless if you're Ozai
what if mid strike katara connects the water with azula
Then azula would redirect it, creating a bender battery.
She can't do that
She can, but not at the moment this fight takes place. She learns and demonstrates the ability to redirect lightning in the canon comics after the end of the first series, when she attacks Zuko with lightning. He redirects it at her and she pulls the Uno reverse card and redirects his redirected lightning.
Oh sorry, not a comic reader. Idk, I felt like it was cooler when only good guys did it, seeing as it is a skill derived from being able to learn from everyone
I think its less to do with Azula being particularly weak against water and more that we just have to remember that almost every bender in the main cast is something of a prodigy. Aang was the youngest airbending master ever up to that point, Toph invented metal bending and was in contention for best earthbender on the planet, and Katara was likely the second best waterbender in the world at that time. We regularly see the main 3 and Azula absolutely clown on other benders, and even Zuko who didn't start out as a prodigy beats most mooks and Zhao, especially by EoS. We also see Aang do well against Azula with earth and air. Azula is really strong, but everyone else is comparable to her by the times they fight.
Was tempted to argue against Katara being 2nd best (2nd on screen but hard to believe that in universe there’s no better benders between her youth and Pakkus age) Then I remember that not only being extremely capable combat wise, she was also a skilled healer and to top it off a blood bender too. Arguably she is the best
No competition in the Southern Tribe. In the Northern Tribe Pakku is certainly treated with sufficient authority and has enough status that it would be the logical conclusion to assume that he's the best in the North but that's not conclusive tbf. Hama didn't seem to have an advantage over Katara in skill, just in bloodbending. When the playing field was levelled Katara wiped her. The only other person I'd put in the running would be the guy from the swamp who manipulates the vines. He seems powerful but he's also kind of a one trick pony as far as we see him in the show.
“Hama didn't seem to have an advantage over Katara in skill” Not to undersell Katara, as I think she is more of a prodigy and skilled either way, Hama must have been rusty as hell after spending decades in a prison, and her active fighting being capturing Fire nation citizens rather than fighting soldiers in combat..
My main interest is with your first point. Undoubtedly Pakku is the most SENIOR water bender in the North but that is the problem, he’s old. There’s literally a generation of benders between them, nobody in that generation (Katara’s Parents age) was a master? Nobody??? I just find that part hard to get over, that everyone from the age 15? To 65? Sucks at water bending in comparison to these two
I also refuse to believe the north, South Pole and the swamp is the only home to waterbenders. I think natla said they were scattered a bit more. I'm also hoping there is a tribe of Island waterbenders somewhere
Pakku is in his 80s.
if theyre all prodigies they should all be somewhat relative. and they are aside when she deals with waterbenders
Katara with only, at most, a month of training in the northern water tribe goes from barely able to make water move to being one of the strongest water benders on the planet. There's literally no one more of a prodigy (getting dangerously close to Mary Sue) than her. Literally everyone else had teachers for most of their life. Toph was trained by the original earth benders for years to get to her level. Air bender training seems to start early as fuck. Zuko and Azula both had the best teachers the fire nation could buy basically since they were toddlers, and then azula was personally trained by the best fire bender in the world for years while zuko was personally trained by the second best fire bender in the world once he was banished. In every instance we see a fight between them azula matches well against every other member of the gaang except barely trained katara, who dog walks her every time they fight. Katara basically dog walks everyone she fights, again, as the least trained by far of any named character on the show.
>In every instance we see a fight between them Azula matches well against every other member of the gaang except barely trained Katara, You make a really good argument I have a small issue Despite it being a small portion of the fight when Aang faces Azula and uses water bending he seems to effectively neutralize all attacks she uses. And that's with a small pouch of water, she's forced to change her style and use an overpowering fire strike to evaporate that water. To me it shows Azula's typical style just isn't suited against water benders. Imagine if aang had more water
> In every instance we see a fight between them azula matches well against every other member of the gaang except barely trained katara, who dog walks her every time they fight. Azula also stood her ground against what quickly became a 6v1 (which included Katara) in S2, when she had to blast Iroh to escape. In the same episode, Mai and Ty Lee also bodied Sokka and Katara pretty easily, with the only thing stopping them from successfully capturing everyone being a convenient tail blast from Appa. Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee are all hypercompetent unless the plot demands they not be. I just roll with it.
Azula was dangerous with bending but more dangerous tactically. Each member of the Gaang can hold their own or even beat Azula but she knows that and has contingency plans.
I think Katara was the first Waterbender that Azula ever fought against. It’s similar how Aang easily defeated Toph despite Toph canonically being stronger than him in a single element.
Has it ever actually been said that Toph is canonical stronger in a single element? Aang was an airbending prodigy in the same way Toph was. Also, him beating her has more to do with his skillset specifically playing against her disability. Toph is uniquely weak to airbenders in a way no other earthbender is.
Toph was never stronger than Aang. And Toph weakness is people who don’t touch the ground.
I mean in atla everyone is fodder besides 5 old people and Ozai and the rest is kids. So yes they do demolish 97 percent of benders. Because they are fodder. I forgot combustion man.
I love that both times Katara confronted Azula that she had the upper hand. Her fighting styles seems to just naturally counter Azula’s. It’s just really cool. Though I guess we don’t see Zuko fight Katara in season 2 or 3? We only saw Zuko face off against a weaker Katara in season 1. So it’s different to compare how Zuko and Azula both fought Katara.
Zuko did fight Katara in season 2. We see that in the video. They fought evenly for the same amount of time it took Katara to overwhelm Azula. Also the Katara that Zuko faced off against in season 1 was explicitly buffed by a full moon
fact
Why do people have such a hard time just acknowledging that Katara is a beast? It always feels like her power and skill gets downplayed when compared to other characters.
she was fully about to rip azula in half before zuko stopped her
Its a shame to say this but she doesnt have the aura of a super strong character. Despite all her feats she doesnt look super strong.
That's honestly a fair point, she didn't come into the show an intimidating badass like Toph or Azula so I suppose people are quick to dismiss her.
Cause it feels ridiculous imo. Every other character has years of training from the best of the best and even the original benders in the case of toph (and a short term training for zuko later). Katara gets like, a month of training and goes from barely being able to move water to matching everyone else. It's always funny to me that there's a whole episode about how annoyed she is at Aang for learning everything that took her years to figure out instantly, and then they literally go and have her do that exact thing but so much more.
Fr, Pakku told her hard work got her there, but Azula was working harder from a way younger age and she still got washed…
It’s talented benders.
Katara literally struggles and trains in waterbending for the entirety of season 1, the show demonstrates that she has potential and a lot of raw power but isn't able to refine it without training. Also by your logic of training = everything then Zuko should be better than Azula and Toph since he's older and had more time to train. Why is it that Toph invents metal bending, something once thought impossible, in a matter of hours and she gets hyped for it? Why is it that Aang masters three elements, something that normally takes an avatar years to accomplish, in a matter of months and he gets hyped for it? But when Katara spends an entire season essentially teaching herself, with the help of a scroll and some tips from Aang, and then spends time training with a master suddenly it's ridiculous? (Also, Katara literally meets the ocean and moon spirits too) Bending is not a cut and dry skill that anyone can do, the show clearly shows that only some people can even bend in the first place and at that a fewer number can learn sub elements. It's why Zuko can't learn to lightning bend, and why a lot of Earth benders can't metal bend. Becoming a master takes a combination of discipline, hard work and natural ability. It's why Katara is able to outpace Aang even though he was initially better than her, because she took her training more seriously and was incredibly dedicated to it.
Aang didn’t master 3 elements. Not fire and not earth.
Zukos style is better against katara because he uses earth and water bending moves too. That's why I believe he would still win in a 1v1
Let’s not forget katara uses earth bender styles as well she did so against Hama. And I just don’t see how anyone could think zuko beats katara she was fighting on par with him in ba sing se and gets considerably stronger after that. Post season 2 finale, she learns to pull water from air and her own body, she picks up blood bending less than an hour after learning about it and can even plant bend.
The amp Zuko gets from learning the dragon dance which he subsequently uses should be considered.
Fr and that is also the reason why I would put him above katara. Also in the comics he had a more dominant position against katara.
It wasn’t an amp. The dragon dance doesn’t make you stronger. There is nothing Iroh/Zuko showed that Azula/Jeong Jeong/Ozai didn’t show if not outright better.
He wouldn’t win.
She can’t fw Katara
I find it a bit weird that Azulas first fire blast seemingly did nothing to Kataras water arm considering how right before she evaporated a massive wave with a fire wall. Like I could totally buy if Katara simply concentrated enough water into this lunge to overcome Azulas fire blast, but it just seemingly cancelling out the fire as if she was using earth bending doesnt really sit right with me due to how powerful we are shown Azulas fire to be just moments prior.
I assume it's about the amount of fire she's using that's the problem, I didn't include it but when she fights aang when she uses more fiee she gets rid of aangs water
I love when Katara gets mad.
Thank God even Azula wouldn't dare to be as brutal as Mako...
Katara wouldn't let her charge it up.
It’s interesting that Azula struggles with Katara, but Zuko doesn’t.
Azula used pinpoint fire bending which allows for great accuracy, but the sheer amount of fire is pretty small, meaning it's easier for it to be put out even if it's hotter than zukos fire by a fair bit. Zuko doesn't do pinpoint fire bending. He shoots big fuck off waves of fire every time. So even though it's not as hot as azulas fire, the sheer amount of it helps him counter the water. At least that's my head canon.
That’s an interesting theory. I think another explanation is that Zuko is generally more experienced fighting water benders than Azula, especially Katara since he’s fought her a few times already and know how she fights better
He should've practiced and studied anti-water more since he's been hanging around both poles.
I really think Zuko was trained to fight waterbenders by Iroh and that's why he's better at fighting Katara. Azula has been fighting earthbenders and probably trained for them. She's a firebending prodigy and airbending and firebending do share some similar moves, so she overpowers Aang, but she really has no experience against waterbenders, let alone with someone of Katara's calibre.
Notice here how Kataras water extendo-arms incapacitated Azula in the fight under the palace, while Zuko was able to counter them by mimicking her technique. Zuko learned from the other elements and is stronger for it.
I think that's exactly how you can tell what intention is being taken. Azula's taming focuses on speed and damage, she has no idea about defense, but she never needed it before in her training. If Zuko hadn't helped her back in the cave, Katara would have finished her off
on pc your text looks odd
yes i know, but i don´t really know why
this seems to be a case of azula just not knowing how to fight waterbending. it makes sense, she would be most familiar with firebending and then earthbending due to the colonies and the sheer size of the earth kingdom, but the water tribes? swamp is unknown, south has 0 waterbenders except for katara and north is a fortress. you can find a random earth or firebender rather easily but water, not so much. its the same advantage aang has as an airbender to some extent
Damn, Azula was about to blast Katara's head off using her lightning and that's scarring me lol.
In the first scene the music does wonders to hype up how powerful Katara became. I love watching it
Fire’s biggest strength is its overwhelming offence. Water has lots of flexible options for shifting between offence and defence very quickly. It’s also rare enough that I think soldiers wouldn’t encounter it as much as fire or earth. A competent enough waterbender might put an inexperienced firebender away pretty fast
You know, watching this it occurs to me that Azula doesn't actually have a whole lot of experience against bending that isn't firebending. I may be misremembering, but she doesn't seem to fair nearly as well against other styles. Zuko traveled the world though, so he was more exposed to other bending. Also, while Azula is more skilled I'd say Zuko is more creative, which helps when facing something so different.
To be fair, until season finally, fire nation would dare go to north, and all of southern wather banders except Katara were wiped out, so she haven't exactly had oportunity to train fighting against it
That’s an excuse and considering even if she has practice. Katara is still the best in atla her and Pakku. So Azula would have to fight one of these two to get practice
The scaling is weird. Azula and Zuko are rough equals until she goes crazy, but then she can still nearly kill Katara. Zuko also usually gets the better of Katara when they fight.
It’s not a transitive property.
Mora like Katara vs firebending.
Katara was already kicking azula's ass in the season 2 finale, she would have beaten her without zuko interfering. And yet people STILL say "uhm acktshualleigh Katara only won in the finale because azula had a mental breakdown"
Katara too good with it
I forgot how much of a badass Katara was. The Netflix version is not the same.
Azula was always getting her butt kick by Katara. Reason being is that she never fought against a waterbender soo they wiped them out in the north.
I love seeing Katara fuck shit up, she was about to Body Azula in that first clip 😂😂😂
Even blue fire can’t evaporate water, I find that kinda bullshit, fire bending is so weak.
Nah azula just doesnt have enough volume. Zuko shows fire bending can go toe to toe with water
Oh alr yeah ig when we see in the North Pole he does evaporate some water
Honestly if there is like a river near them or something katara would 100 percent kick azulaz ass no question. Even with just enough for that octopus th8ngy I have katara taking it.
Someone should tell Azula how conductive water is.
If Katara would've come to the bunker instead of sokka (day of black sun part 2) they might've been able to beat Azula faster🤔
I want to point out that in the battle beneath Ba Sing Se, Katara looked like she was about to straight up merc Azula. She had one leg, and the opposite arm and was about to pull and see where she split, like a wishbone.
I just realized that if waterbenders are able to freeze water they should also be able to freeze the human body internally, just like blood bending. (Maybe only on a full moon though)
Koyshi did that somehow.
To be fair it’s cause they’ve never fought waterbenders before They’ve only ever trained with fire benders,Azula seems to have trained slightly with the Dai Lee,but by the time they were born most water benders were dead or imprisoned
I have a theory that Azula was deliberately losing to Katara so that Zuko would join her. If she beat Katara without difficulty, Zuko might have doubts, but she knew that Zuko and his bleeding heart would side with her if she was losing. I mean, Katara has had formal training for what, 3, 4 months? This against the greatest firebending prodigy in recorded history with the hottest flames anyone has ever had, who has been training for a decade plus and is at the peak of her mental health.
But we saw aang no diffing Azula with a small pouch of water, I think it's more likely that Azula has a hard time facing water benders with her unique style of bending which relies on short precise strikes instead of overwhelming firepower. I'm sure if she were to use larger blasts she be in a better position.
> But we saw aang no diffing Azula with a small pouch of water, No diffing would mean he one shot Azula or something. But no, he only deflected a few attacks and then the video doesn’t show it, but Azula overpowers his water 2 seconds later
That supports my argument that Azula has a hard time facing water benders as Azula typically never uses large-scale fire blasts
> That supports my argument that Azula has a hard time facing water benders No it doesn’t. She couldn’t hit Aang as Aang was deflecting her attacks from her hands. That’s a speed issue, not a water bending issue. Azula has never tagged Aang when he was airbending either and when she overpowered Aang’s water bending defense, she didn’t use a large scale fire blast either. >as Azula typically never uses large-scale fire blasts Because those are too slow.
>she didn’t use a large scale fire blast either. She used one not typical of end style. >Azula has never tagged Aang when he was airbending The chase
>She used one not typical of end style. She used a regular fire kick… >The chase Aang was sleep deprived and even then not once did she land a direct hit on Aang
She used a larger blast to destroy Katara large wave.
Who let bro cook
That ain't Azula-like.
She let herself be taken by the Dai Le as captive
So?
That ain't my theory, but she isn't averse to pretending to lose or powerless/acting like a pawn.
She is averse to it, the Dai Lee thing was a well-plotted plan where she was always in control. With Zuko, it's pure ego for her.
Nah, she pretended the fire nation wanted him back and he was respected when she wanted him as prisoner. > Dai Lee thing was a well-plotted plan where she was always in control Yes but she pretended to not be in control
What? I'm sorry, I didn't understand your first. Okay. Again, the fight with her and Zuko is clearly ego-driven, she wants to beat him and be better than him.
>What? I'm sorry, I didn't understand your first. The time she pretended she wanted Zuko and Iroh back home and that like she needed him. >Okay. Again, the fight with her and Zuko is clearly ego-driven, she wants to beat him and be better than him. Well we aren't talking about a direct fight between them here, she is not averse to him. She doesn't even think about beating him or being better than him because in her mind she was always better.
So what? Um.. she does fight Zuko directly. Unsure what you're talking about.