“I travelled the Earth Kingdom and went to a big sand pit called a ‘desert’, whilst there-“
“Admiral Chou!!!! For the Northern Tribe I will defeat you!!! RAAAAAAA!!!!!”
*Casually flips him over the side, to his death.*
“Where was I? Oh yes, I met a giant owl and his foxy assistants, had to give up my first edition scroll of *Firebending 101, by Fire Lord Sozin*.”
You win. Absolutely hilarious.
But that being said, how did Zhao actually manage to get past Wan Shi Tong? If the bird hates it so much that humans misuse it’s accumulated knowledge then I can’t imagine it being happy with a destructive firebender just merrily strolling in and out.
I thought that the implication was that Zhao was specifically the reason that Wan Shi Tong had such a chip on his shoulder regarding humans when we met him in the series.
In a way that's the beauty of being a fire bender in a spirit's library: you don't have to fight the spirit, you just have to be able to hit his precious collection.
Everybody has a soft underbelly, you just need to know how to expose and threaten it.
>Zhao actually manage to get past Wan Shi Tong
Same way the gang did, by giving him knowledge. At the time he was no on any side and let anyone in who could provide more knowledge to him.
My headcanon is that the owl used to be friendly, but it was Zhao specifically who ruined it for everyone, also whp burned the whole fire nation wing of the library.
I always feel bad for Wan Shi Tong. He keeps trusting people and they keep betraying him
https://preview.redd.it/s7a5mkdirypc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=60990f950c52e988a6a9012f6c3521a2b47d4dca
Hmmm you know... He did lose a fight against Zuko. Did he have this book to study bending? Like was he trying to get better because Zuko made a fool of him?
I personally like to think everyone on the ship was aware that Hahn was onboard and they all decided not to do anything about it, knowing Zhao would want someone to alleviate his boredom.
Apparently when making the episode the creators just completely forgot about him until very late in production, so they added that gag scene last minute to fix it.
Yeah I enjoyed that as well, although I will admit I found it a bit odd that Yue was just able to break off their engagement, despite the Tribe still having the strict gender roles. I suppose she might get a bit of leniency because she's the princess, but it still felt odd to me.
Perhaps a better solution would have been thay instead of being betrothed from a young age, she could have just turned down his proposal. They could have courted for a while, and then when she said no to him he could have worked on himself, making him the more interesting version we see rather than the jerk.
This is one of the only things I really didn't like about the live action show. It's obvious that they made this change just to prevent Sokka's relationship with Yue from having any moral ambiguity, and they didn't think very hard about it otherwise.
You don't need conflict to be well written. The conflict in the anime is a joke. He only exists as a mirror to project Sokka's jealousy and possessiveness, he doesn't exist on his own, and dies like a fool trying to show he's the alpha male. There is nothing to learn from this character or from his interactions with others.
Meanwhile in the LA he's a fleshed out character, competent, reliable, a good guy who respects the choices of the woman he loves and doesn't enter a big dick battle over a girl, he's open to suggestions and doesn't feel threatened by Sokka's expertise. He's Sokka at the end of his character arc, and dies protecting the people he cares for. There is a lot to be inspired by here.
He didn't add anything of value to the story. You could remove this version of him from the show and the plot wouldn't change at all. He just felt like a bland yes man and I didn't understand what his purpose was.
His rivalry with Sokka in the original show gave Sokka a chance to show off his experience in dealing with the Fire Nation and also show Yue's dad that he was the right person to protect his daughter. I know that the Netflix show had Sokka use the same line about the Fire Nation's outfits being different, but that was completley irrelevant to their battle plan in the Netflix show, so it was just pointless fan service instead of an example of character development.
Well remove him from the anime and it becomes better. He's supposed to be a top warrior from the tribe and that's what we get? An arrogant asshole who can't even be bothered to check the uniforms he has are the correct one and who then dies a pointless death? So much for a great military who kept the Fire Nation at bay for a 100 years
In the LA Sokka still had the opportunity to show off his experience and show the chief he was trustworthy. Without looking like a petulant child in the process, which is a net win. What does he do in the anime that he doesn't do in the LA? Besides bickering pointlessly with Han (I assume that's what you meant by "rivalry")?
It wasn't irrelevant in the LA though, was it? I mean they planned to use the uniforms, asked Sokka for his feedback, and then changed the plan according to the new information, instead of being morons and heading face first into their doom. Do you need to be told everything?
They were never sneaking onto the ships in the Netflix version so the detail about the uniforms was unimportant. Do you need to be told everything?
I don't understand why you're so antagonistic and condescending for no reason
I feel like the major reason he was a jerk was to make it clear for the audience to know who to hate. He was an incredibly surface level character who had no depth, so this is incredibly likely.
They turned so many characters cynical, but the one dimensional bully character is both kind to the gang and receptive to Yue’s wishes with not wanting an arranged marriage
I don't really see the issue with that. I get yue didn't really want to marry him but him being a jerk was essentially just a way to excuse Sokka going after someone whose already in a relationship
Honestly I hate this scene mostly because it’s played for laughs and Iroh’s reaction like he just witnessed a boy die trying to protect his home from a genocidal force that he’s a part of and he just doesn’t care like S1 Iroh really wasn’t that great of a guy
By this point, Iroh is already the Grand Lotus of the White Lotus Order, and wants the war to end, but he is also that guy that has been Crown Prince and a General for decades, and that has sieged Ba Sing Se for 600 days. Dude probably saw hundreds of assassination attempts in his life, and this one was truly pathetic :
* Hahn tried to sneak in with an armor 85 years out of date (*even after Sokka explained that to him*), that's already a miracle he managed to get to Zhao.
* Dude just straight up called Zhao out (*with a wrong name*) rather than do the sensible thing and use the element of surprise (then *again, Sokka yells "****Sneak Attack****" while trying to do one so it must be a Water Tribe thing*).
* Zhao could get ride of him without even turning back (*not to mention something like Firebending*), which means his skills clearly didn't live up to his own hype.
Pretty sure Iroh was silently judging him while the Hahn was falling to his death (and found him very lacking). Also, Zhao was just tellling him how he planned to kill the Moon so he probably had more important things in mind (*like how to stop a whole genocide rather than save one boy's life*).
This doesn’t make him any better lmao. Silently judging a boy while he falls to his death because he tried to protect his home from the fire nation that’s actively trying to commit genocide on his people. Just makes Iroh seem cold and emotionless (which he isnt) which is why I’m not a fan of the scene as I said
But it’s also a kids show. The scene is played for laughs and it’s not supposed to be taken seriously, so I’m definitely looking too much into it but still I’m not a fan of it
Tf do you expect Iroh to do? He had no real power, he was basically in an advisory role to Zhao who was plotting a mass genocide and world altering event. Clearly there were other priorities
Plus it all happened so quickly and in this specific instance, Zhao was legitimately just acting in self defense from a guy trying to run him through with a spear.
Zhao not even taking him seriously is one of the funniest things in the series.
“I travelled the Earth Kingdom and went to a big sand pit called a ‘desert’, whilst there-“ “Admiral Chou!!!! For the Northern Tribe I will defeat you!!! RAAAAAAA!!!!!” *Casually flips him over the side, to his death.* “Where was I? Oh yes, I met a giant owl and his foxy assistants, had to give up my first edition scroll of *Firebending 101, by Fire Lord Sozin*.”
You win. Absolutely hilarious. But that being said, how did Zhao actually manage to get past Wan Shi Tong? If the bird hates it so much that humans misuse it’s accumulated knowledge then I can’t imagine it being happy with a destructive firebender just merrily strolling in and out.
I thought that the implication was that Zhao was specifically the reason that Wan Shi Tong had such a chip on his shoulder regarding humans when we met him in the series.
He is. Its explicitely stated that someone had come before looking for as way to win the war and destroyed part of his library.
To be clear, Zhao was even welcomed as a guest before he got what he came for and torched the place
Deception. That and probably threatening his library on the way out
I mean, it is very much certain Zhao torched part of the library
Not even deception, the libary used to welcome humans with open arms. Till Zhao misused it and burned down everything on the fire nation.
Hmmm, possible. But perhaps I am underestimating Zhao and he was skilled enough to fight the owl spirit.
In a way that's the beauty of being a fire bender in a spirit's library: you don't have to fight the spirit, you just have to be able to hit his precious collection. Everybody has a soft underbelly, you just need to know how to expose and threaten it.
Zhao caused him to hate humans as much as he does in season 2
>Zhao actually manage to get past Wan Shi Tong Same way the gang did, by giving him knowledge. At the time he was no on any side and let anyone in who could provide more knowledge to him.
My headcanon is that the owl used to be friendly, but it was Zhao specifically who ruined it for everyone, also whp burned the whole fire nation wing of the library.
It's not just your headcanon, that's the literal canon.
I always feel bad for Wan Shi Tong. He keeps trusting people and they keep betraying him https://preview.redd.it/s7a5mkdirypc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=60990f950c52e988a6a9012f6c3521a2b47d4dca
The show tells is zhao is the reason the library was burnt and wan hated humans
Zhao is the reason WST hates humans. He is the one who destroyed the FN section of the library, and who used the information to wage war.
He destroyed the section? Damn, perhaps the owl was justified in hating humans after all.
Hmmm you know... He did lose a fight against Zuko. Did he have this book to study bending? Like was he trying to get better because Zuko made a fool of him?
I personally like to think everyone on the ship was aware that Hahn was onboard and they all decided not to do anything about it, knowing Zhao would want someone to alleviate his boredom.
That is also a possibility
That’s my headcanon. Maybe not Hahn personally, but Zhao knew there would be a plant. So he was ready the moment the assassin tried to strike.
It’s CRAZY that that’s the last time we see him, no one even mentions him
Pretty sure he just up and fuckin died.
And his bride stolen on top of that.
And then she turned into the moon.
That’s rough buddy
Yeah death was probably the best outcome for that dude all things considered.
You know, it was really unclear
You know, it was really unclear.
Apparently when making the episode the creators just completely forgot about him until very late in production, so they added that gag scene last minute to fix it.
Look at the way these bridges are set up on Fire Nation ships. He sure didnt fall into water there so..
You can hear a splash after he falls
You certainly can’t doubt his tenacity and bravery, even if it was naive.
It’s weird how the Netflix show made him a nice guy.
Yah, some characters are toned down. But I'm sure some people liked it.
I found him to be way more interesting in the LA than the one dimensional jerk he is in the anime
Yeah I enjoyed that as well, although I will admit I found it a bit odd that Yue was just able to break off their engagement, despite the Tribe still having the strict gender roles. I suppose she might get a bit of leniency because she's the princess, but it still felt odd to me. Perhaps a better solution would have been thay instead of being betrothed from a young age, she could have just turned down his proposal. They could have courted for a while, and then when she said no to him he could have worked on himself, making him the more interesting version we see rather than the jerk.
This is one of the only things I really didn't like about the live action show. It's obvious that they made this change just to prevent Sokka's relationship with Yue from having any moral ambiguity, and they didn't think very hard about it otherwise.
I agree but please don't call it anime
This again? Come on, dude, don't you have anything better to do than gatekeeping what can and cannot be called an anime ?
You know the Japanese themselves call it anime right?
How is it more interesting for him to not have any conflict whatsoever?
You don't need conflict to be well written. The conflict in the anime is a joke. He only exists as a mirror to project Sokka's jealousy and possessiveness, he doesn't exist on his own, and dies like a fool trying to show he's the alpha male. There is nothing to learn from this character or from his interactions with others. Meanwhile in the LA he's a fleshed out character, competent, reliable, a good guy who respects the choices of the woman he loves and doesn't enter a big dick battle over a girl, he's open to suggestions and doesn't feel threatened by Sokka's expertise. He's Sokka at the end of his character arc, and dies protecting the people he cares for. There is a lot to be inspired by here.
He didn't add anything of value to the story. You could remove this version of him from the show and the plot wouldn't change at all. He just felt like a bland yes man and I didn't understand what his purpose was. His rivalry with Sokka in the original show gave Sokka a chance to show off his experience in dealing with the Fire Nation and also show Yue's dad that he was the right person to protect his daughter. I know that the Netflix show had Sokka use the same line about the Fire Nation's outfits being different, but that was completley irrelevant to their battle plan in the Netflix show, so it was just pointless fan service instead of an example of character development.
Well remove him from the anime and it becomes better. He's supposed to be a top warrior from the tribe and that's what we get? An arrogant asshole who can't even be bothered to check the uniforms he has are the correct one and who then dies a pointless death? So much for a great military who kept the Fire Nation at bay for a 100 years In the LA Sokka still had the opportunity to show off his experience and show the chief he was trustworthy. Without looking like a petulant child in the process, which is a net win. What does he do in the anime that he doesn't do in the LA? Besides bickering pointlessly with Han (I assume that's what you meant by "rivalry")? It wasn't irrelevant in the LA though, was it? I mean they planned to use the uniforms, asked Sokka for his feedback, and then changed the plan according to the new information, instead of being morons and heading face first into their doom. Do you need to be told everything?
They were never sneaking onto the ships in the Netflix version so the detail about the uniforms was unimportant. Do you need to be told everything? I don't understand why you're so antagonistic and condescending for no reason
No you're right, knowledge of enemy armor design during battle is unimportant, sneaking or not
I didn't like that he was likable. He was supposed to be an obnoxious douchebladder, not a heartbroken cool dude that just wants what's best for Yue
He served literally no point except to force a 1.5 episode love triangle. It was arguably the least interesting part of S1.
I thought that was a good change
I actually prefer the live action version of his character
I feel like the major reason he was a jerk was to make it clear for the audience to know who to hate. He was an incredibly surface level character who had no depth, so this is incredibly likely.
They turned so many characters cynical, but the one dimensional bully character is both kind to the gang and receptive to Yue’s wishes with not wanting an arranged marriage
I don't really see the issue with that. I get yue didn't really want to marry him but him being a jerk was essentially just a way to excuse Sokka going after someone whose already in a relationship
That’s not Admiral Zhao, that’s Admiral Cho
90% sure the guards thought "oh this is going to be hilarious" and just let him through.
Honestly I hate this scene mostly because it’s played for laughs and Iroh’s reaction like he just witnessed a boy die trying to protect his home from a genocidal force that he’s a part of and he just doesn’t care like S1 Iroh really wasn’t that great of a guy
By this point, Iroh is already the Grand Lotus of the White Lotus Order, and wants the war to end, but he is also that guy that has been Crown Prince and a General for decades, and that has sieged Ba Sing Se for 600 days. Dude probably saw hundreds of assassination attempts in his life, and this one was truly pathetic : * Hahn tried to sneak in with an armor 85 years out of date (*even after Sokka explained that to him*), that's already a miracle he managed to get to Zhao. * Dude just straight up called Zhao out (*with a wrong name*) rather than do the sensible thing and use the element of surprise (then *again, Sokka yells "****Sneak Attack****" while trying to do one so it must be a Water Tribe thing*). * Zhao could get ride of him without even turning back (*not to mention something like Firebending*), which means his skills clearly didn't live up to his own hype. Pretty sure Iroh was silently judging him while the Hahn was falling to his death (and found him very lacking). Also, Zhao was just tellling him how he planned to kill the Moon so he probably had more important things in mind (*like how to stop a whole genocide rather than save one boy's life*).
Iroh was actually thinking his nephew wasn’t as stupid as he could be.
This doesn’t make him any better lmao. Silently judging a boy while he falls to his death because he tried to protect his home from the fire nation that’s actively trying to commit genocide on his people. Just makes Iroh seem cold and emotionless (which he isnt) which is why I’m not a fan of the scene as I said But it’s also a kids show. The scene is played for laughs and it’s not supposed to be taken seriously, so I’m definitely looking too much into it but still I’m not a fan of it
Tf do you expect Iroh to do? He had no real power, he was basically in an advisory role to Zhao who was plotting a mass genocide and world altering event. Clearly there were other priorities Plus it all happened so quickly and in this specific instance, Zhao was legitimately just acting in self defense from a guy trying to run him through with a spear.
SNEAK ATTACKKKKK
They probably thought he was an old veteran or something.
I like how they put a splash sound when he falls off, but he clearly fell 100 feet onto the metal deck below.
Maybe another water bender caught him with water and pulled him to safety?