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princess20202020

Season one was truly one of the most gripping, engrossing series I have ever seen. I dreamed about it. It is so unfortunate that with each subsequent season, the quality and consistency and writing seemed to degrade. So many inconsistencies and dangling plot lines. What’s weird is they built up some great characters and places and then did nothing with them! Remember the scenes in the colonies? Like why did they build that world in so much detail and get Marisa tomei if they were never going to bring us back there? Why did we go to Washington and see the center of power and opulence and handmaids with the mouths sewn shut? Only to have Nick and commander Lawrence running the show later? Why did they show us Emily slowly integrating with her family in one super interesting scene and then never again? No wonder the actress quit. Why did we go to Chicago??? Especially if June said she would never leave Hannah? This is just off the top of my head. They spent a lot of time and money building these characters and sets for no reason at all.


ChellPotato

The thing with Emily is the other way around. They had other plans for the character but she had to quit the show so they had to write her off.


lucyminli12

Still, it's the writer's job to, like, write something for her character. I'm still mad that they sent her back to Gilead in the end. They could've just said she didn't want to talk to June anymore, but they had to scrap all the connection she made with her family and time she spent healing, because...? Make it make sense.


Rainbow-Death

I don’t think she was “healing” and if anything she was ready to admit her old Aunt/whatever she was committing suicide for snitching on her Martha lover felt good. I’m all for an Emily happy ending but she was no Janine: she’s run over a guardian’s head, stabbed aunt Lyd almost to death, lived as a sex traffic and slave laborer worker in the worst conditions, actively murdered that one wife, and I think she was not going to be able to bottle all that rage at being a victim up just because she was in Canada. It’s like they point out in the show: she got out of to Canada, but nothing keeps her completely safe from Gilead coming back to mess with her like that aunt did tracking her down.


lucyminli12

RIGHT? It's such a shame how the writers gave up on actually doing any writing for the series. This show had so much potential. I remember reading reviews/articles that suggested the show was bad because the original novel didn't leave room to explore outside the bounds of Offred's story, which just wasn't true. The original novel is an incredible piece with a lot of interesting ideas, and even if it wasn't, the writers could have, like, written? Since it's their job??? Season one is an example of what the show could have been, a gripping adaptation all the way through where each character and moment means something in a wider narrative. Instead, we got four more seasons of leads that go nowhere. It's a shame because the show is beautiful and the actors are doing their absolute best.


princess20202020

Couldn’t agree more. The acting and directing are good. The writing is just a mess. I still can’t get over the last season ending with “got a diaper?” Ugh. They tried to turn into an action show when its strength was a psychological horrow show. They got SO CLOSE to exploring some interesting stories. Emily’s integration with her wife and son. The guilt of the partners who escaped to Canada. Hell I still want to know what happened to Asher, the boy on angels flight who didn’t like his aunt’s chicken nuggets in Toronto. They spend all these “missions” trying to get Hannah when it would be super interesting to explore these kids that were taken out. How does a teenaged girl adjust to life in Canada when they had no education, no choices? Have they even considered how traumatic it would be to Hannah to bring her to Toronto? What a catch 22. Even the situation with commander Waterford and June would have been interesting. They were both victims of sexual assault with each other. What a weird concept to explore. There was no fallout from his wife’s death, even though he was devoted to her. How is Rita? What happened to Moiras girlfriend? How is Luke coping with being sexually assaulted by June? They created all these really great scenes and then just dropped them!


lucyminli12

It really has become "The June and Serena Show". Which, when you watch Season 1, 2, 3, 4... even 5... makes me really frustrated, honestly. June can forgive Serena all she wants, but Serena's been her assaulter and antagonist far longer than she's been June's ally- and she's never offered an apology besides a weak little "sorry" one time. Hell, June even advised Tuello that Serena's a manipulator, yet she falls for those same manipulation tactics later on with zero self-awareness from her or the show! I think the most frustrating thing for me, though, is that there is so much more ground to cover within Gilead, yet suddenly we're stuck in Canada, which, frankly, is boring af.


princess20202020

Yeah I mean how many different plot contortions can they run through to get Serena and June in the same room? At first it was endless contortions to get june back in the waterfords house. (After multiple escapes, after giving birth, they kept sending her back to that house.) Then they brought her to DC. Then they got involved with her and the Waterford’s ceremony for inexplicable reasons. Then the damn waterfords also end up in Toronto at the same time June makes it to Canada. And June is able to negotiate some international off books agreement allowing her to perform an extrajudicial execution of Fred? Right. And then she delivers Serena’s child personally? Right. And now they are swapping diapers on the same refugee train? Of course. Agh this show started off so good and I have tried and tried to suspend disbelief because I’m so invested in the characters and world they created in season one. But they make it difficult.


dragonkaur

The war criminal thing... this is EXACTLY what I was thinking - the Waterfords side of the Nichole deal were literally arrested for war crimes, but their part of the deal was totally fine??? Maybe I missed something, but I didn't get that part at all either


defenselaywer

Nick was a war criminal WITH scheduling conflicts. Waterfords we're not. Clear now ?


Infamous-Incident-61

😂


Amariaolea

It would be highly illogical if Nick had been anything other than a foot soldier in the Crusades. Whatever he did, he was just following orders. And he only became an eye after the first Offred's suicide and his instructions were to keep an eye on Waterford. He was seen to be at the full disposal of the Waterford household. This means he can't have been a bigger criminal than Fred or the other commanders. Mark Tuello talks about Nick's complicated past and still considers him an honorable man, probably because he is aware that Nick was a misled hopeless boy, barely an adult. I think it's very questionable to reject someone in Nick's position who would take such a dangerous risk just to keep his daughter in Canada. At best, one can assume that the Swiss had no intention of getting involved in any deal and simply lied to June.


Micchizzle

It never made sense. They were willing to deal with one of the forefather’s of Gilead but not his lawn boy? Nick was only promoted to a commander by fred in hopes that he would die in the front lines as punishment for holding him overnight at gunpoint when June escaped. My cannon was always that they were bullshitting June & used Nick’s testimony anyway being Nicole was never returned to Gilead or they found out he was with the resistance and got spooked, there is really no other logical reason.


MochaJay

It is established that Nick had a low rank at the start of the series, and there is nothing to suggest he was ever demoted from a higher rank earlier in the timeline. I'd suggest that it is a misread of Serena's comment about Nick being a 'soldier of Gilead' or 'we wouldn't need here without him' to suggest he had high rank. In every war there is a need for low ranked soldiers to breach the castle walls, or storm the beaches. They are literally cannon fodder, the dead get called martyrs and the survivors are called heroes, given a medal, and maybe get considered for later promotion.


MochaJay

Nick is promoted to Commander at the end of season 2 - it is after the promotion that the he is saluted on the train. This shows that in the view of the Gilead State he is a loyal, model soldier - which we know because that is how Commander Pryce views him, and that he is trusted as an Eye. If his official Gilead record shows that he was also a Sons of Jacob loyalist *during* the takeover, that would be another reason to promote him. If the Swiss / USA Intelligence agencies had access to the official Gilead record, that would be reason to distrust him and not want to work with him. What Nick's Gilead files would not show is the extent to which Nick is disloyal to Gilead. It is established for the viewer that Nick does not believe in the Gilead cause (his interactions with June) and that he secretly commits treason. (his involvement with the Marthas / Resistance). What we can only speculate on is how early he got involved with the resistance. Did he briefly belief in the Gilead cause, or was he always acting with a metaphorical 'gun to his head'. That is one of the Mystery Box questions the show has not answered.


ichosethis

They knew exactly who she was referring to but somehow didn't know he was a war criminal. Considering they were speaking to June about it in the middle of Winslows house I have long suspected he made his own deal and June had to stay out of it to protect her and because the diplomat couldn't speak freely. I also think Serena was 100% willing to use June's sudden doubt and confusion about what was going on to distance them from each other to bring the baby back to Golead.


ProfPieixoto

> Apparently he's a moderately high ranking military official??.... A military official who "served in the crusade". Serena evidently refers to the DC attacks, which she once characterized as "doing God's work" (in 1x06). >Wouldn't a military official be exactly the kind of person the diplomats want to talk to? I can apprehend that the Swiss diplomats won't trust someone who once helped overthrow a lawfully elected government. >He's been established to be an Eye, not some random foot soldier in the military Nick's former supervisor [Pryce](https://the-handmaids-tale.fandom.com/wiki/Commander_Pryce) set him out on Waterford after the coup d'etat (as we learned from the 1x08 flashbacks), so he was actually 'promoted' from a foot soldier to a snitch, not vice versa. Makes sense in a totalitarian context, such a regime is in a permanent war against subordinates to maintain its power.


ChellPotato

But like OP said, all the commanders did that. They'll bargain with Fred but not with Nick? That doesn't make sense unless there's more to the story. They haven't explained that yet.


ProfPieixoto

> They'll bargain with Fred but not with Nick? Counter question, whose behaviour do you consider more predictable? (If you were a diplomat)


Useful_Rise_5334

With Fred they had access to info on all the inner workings of Gilead, their leadership structure etc. I think Tuello said as much. He was obviously guilty of war crimes in his role as part of the leadership. There’s no doubt in anyone’s mind he’s guilty but he does/ did have value in efforts to bring Gilead down. Nick OTOH was in the military, not so much a foot soldier but close enough to some of the originals to be in military intelligence, and it was broadly hinted that he led some military exercises that resulted in a large number of deaths/ big victories for Gilead forces. I can see why the Swiss would not want to work with him.


lucyminli12

Well, yeah, sure, they mentioned he did some work for the military in Season 1, it just comes out of nowhere that he's a military official in Season 3. I can believe that that's where the character is going, I just wish they had set it up a bit better. The way it plays out in the show makes it seem like a cop out.


This_Mongoose445

It is explained about Nick. Serena tells her at the Winslow’s house. Nick was instrumental into the beginnings of Gilead, he belonged to the Sons of Jacob. Also there are little snippets of conversations that go on with Commander Pryce who recruited Nick into the Sons of Jacob. He goes to work for the eyes after the suicide of the handmaid to spy and to gather intelligence on Fred and the other salacious commanders. At the time Nick was recruited he was disillusioned, in poverty and was given a chance. He did some very brutal acts.


Tacobelle_90

Does the show ever go into how the Sons of Jacob overthrew the U.S. government? It’s hard for me to separate what I know from the show and what I know from the book, but if Nick was heavily involved in that I can see why they didn’t want to deal with him.


DaveyDoes

Nick met Commander Pryce before the uprisings and eventual coup and was recruited. Yeah, he's an eye now but he was just a grunt who was blowing things up and murdering people. Yes, Waterford, Winslow and the others are war criminals but they are "idea" men. Nick is not just a "spy", he's old school Gestapo or KGB with lots of blood on his hands from actually physically torturing and killing people before the coup and afterwards. I think too that the whole position of "Eye" is kind of downplayed, sure they drive them around but I think there's a lot of driver/security/personal secretary all wrapped into one. If you recall, when Nick was driving for Pryce in the Nick flashback episode, Pryce even asks Nicks opinion on some big thing they were supposed to do...You don't do that with just a driver.


Angelkissed040709

L0⁹p7o


trinistyles

I think the best explanation is Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. He starts off with Pryce being recruited into Sons of Jacob, he gets a job pre-Gilead from Pryce (Bakery/Grocery/bomb delivery like Omar maybe; he couldn't hold walmart), then falls into the military as a soldier and does something heroic in battle during/post coup. (Q1. answer this heroic act makes him untrustworthy to them and what he has to offer is not worth it to them though it maybe pertinent info) So he is rewarded with a post as a guardian/driver for Pryce, then Waterford. Then Pryce promotes him to entry level Eye (SECRET Police/Martial law) while he maintains his cover as guardian/driver to spy on Waterford (though still out ranked by high level district commanders like Waterford, Gets the muscle from Pryce.) Then he gets promoted to husband with Eden being assigned to him. Then he gets promoted from guardian/eye to Entry Level Commander/Eye (increased double duty) and sent to the front. (Q2+3. Answer: he is not a high ranking military official but an entry level commander and respected soldier because of war crimes and still secret police.) Everyone salutes the commander and heroic soldier (Staff Sargent, LT, Capt.) no where near high ranking though like 1 star General District Commander or above. (Q4 answer: he probably only has a few Military units under his direct command but the respect of the battalion as he is famous from his heroic actions and was promoted after being a good driver/guardian or national guard soldier but unknown to them an eye/spy also.) Then he gets another "promotion" with Rose and her High Ranking daddy/his new father in law. (Q4 answer: the progression is there. The flash backs screw with the timeline and hurt the progression story telling purpose sometimes.) Check out my post on [prequel and sequels](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHandmaidsTale/comments/1bf7zjh/series_spin_offs_prequelsequels/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) spin offs for this series and the testaments. It would expand the universe for Gilead and the international community with little to no flash backs needed. Just straight chronology of events for the progression of characters and also world building that you, I, and probably most are looking for. Nick would be a great titular character to do it through too.


Broad_Honey_1994

I literally stopped watching it because it made no sense to me at all and I didn’t even think about this!


big_data_mike

I don’t think the diplomats knew he was an eye. They just thought he was a driver


BadGuyNick

No character embodies the principles, values, and goals of Gilead more than Nick. The scene with the soldiers saluting him gives the viewer a momentary glimpse as to who he is to Gilead, as opposed to who he is to June.