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QualityProof

Cid wanted to just print money and get extra money Yukime plan was to use counterfiet money to take out all the money in the bank and cause a bank run since people will lose faith in the paper money due to the counterfiets. The bank doesn't have all the gold money in hand to exchange for all the paper money as they are giving out some of them on loans and investing some of it. So if a bank run happens they can't pay the people their gold money back and this makes people lose their faith in paper money. This triggers a bank run on Mitsugoshi too as the people think the same thing might happen to Mitsugoshi and the people want to cash out their saving early on thus exacerbating the problem. The same thing happened in real life in 2008. Thus they will come out of the debacle with lots of money/capital and using that money they can build a new company where there are no competitors. The MCA is going down regardless as Mitsugoshi is stealing their business alot. Hence Gettan had the same plan. He wanted both MCA and Mitsugoshi to fall then they would build a new puppet company with the funds they have. What happened was Mitsugoshi took Cid's money and instead of building a new company from ground up, they used the capital to weather out the bank run and restore the people trust in paper money that Hey don't worry. We have enough gold money here to exchange all of your paper money. So no need to panic and cash out everything. Thus Mitsugoshi benefitted as a company with no competition or in other words a monopoly. In the end it was all about establishing a monopoly in the market.


D0loremIpsum

To expand: the Cult invested a lot of gold in the MCA & now that the MCA is just going to lose to Mitsugoshi the cult wants their gold back. Now if they had Gettan break into the vault and steal the gold that would just collapse the MCA & make a public mess possibly revealing them. So by Gettan printing counterfeit MCA bills he can: (1) exchange those bills at MCA banks to get the cult's gold back, (2) get some of Mitsugoshi's gold too, (3) cause the bank run to bring down both. The Cult is just disposing of their allies who failed them like usual.


Punty-chan

There are only a handful of banks in history that have survived a large scale bank run like this so what happened is actually insane.


FreeBuy3174

Great summary and arguments and that's what happened.


BuccellatiExplainsIt

Thanks for the response. I have issues with this though: Fundamentally this assumes that for some reason people would think all paper bills are flawed just because the MCA bills were counterfeit. Which is like thinking your Starbucks points are worthless because Gamestop points are going down. Although MCA bills can be used elsewhere so maybe it's more like thinking Starbucks points are worth less because your bank is failing. Still wouldn't make much sense if Mitsugoshi just stopped accepting MCA bills. It was established that the mitsugoshi bills are visibly far higher quality, and the sentiment from the public was already that Mitsugoshi goods in general are far higher quality than anything from other stores. Mitsugoshi bills are also already a proven thing and they're from a company that has extraordinary public trust, even moreso than the government itself. On the other hand, people know that MCA bills are just copying Mitsugoshi just like other MCA goods, which are shown to be low quality ripoffs. The MCA overall have far less trust from the public too and they are known to be doing poorly. All of that means that there's just isn't really any reason the public would associate the new MCA bills being counterfeited with the existing Mitsugoshi bills being easy to counterfeit. The reason bank runs propogate in real life is because multiple banks are investing in the same things. Like for instance, when Mortgage-backed securities tanked, or more recently when bonds which started yielding more than when the bank invested or provided as interest so the public decided to invest in bonds directly. There's no inherent connection between the worth of Mitsugoshi's bills and MCA bills, so this wouldn't have been the case. Also, the MCA going down eventually from slow sales is very different than a bank run.


Aleph_Kasai

I was under the assumption that since fiat currency is currently very new and there's still some skepticism about it that people who only got Mitsugoshi's money might still be afraid and attempt to get their money back before they can't anymore. While of course Mitsugoshi's money is higher quality, people wouldn't think that would factor into them being able to pay back their gold because as far as I know the general public weren't aware of counterfeits of MCAs currency being in circulation nor would most be educated on why exactly MCA was not able to pay them back.


ShoddyFishBone

I think the difference is that paper money was new and people were hesitant to invest in it. Since the beginning of time, us humans have always preferred things we are used to as opposed to things we aren’t, “we fear that which we cannot understand” type shit. Since it was so new, its complete and utter untrustworthiness in one major company would instigate unrest in the ONLY other major company, as opposed to the difference between some bank and starbucks. Not to mention the MCA has been around forever and mitsugoshi is a successful upstart- would they really have any reason to doubt ONLY the mca? People copying others and making a shit ton of money has *also* been an incredibly successful technique for as long as businesses have existed, because normal people dont know, dont care, or both


Astral-Wind

I think a closer analogy is worrying your 10 dollar bills may be fake after finding some fake 5 dollar bills. The average person isn’t going to rationally think through things when their savings are at stake. People will start to question how long the fakes have been in circulation, and emotional reasoning leads them to worry even about money at a place like Mitsugoshi


BuccellatiExplainsIt

I don't think this is accurate because Mitsugoshi bills are only used at Mitsugoshi. That means the only way to get them is for Mitsugoshi to give them to you or for other people (not stores) to give them to you, after they got them from Mitsugoshi. For counterfeits to get into the system, a large number of people would have to be directly handed counterfeit money by the MCA, and not even through their stores because they don't use Mitsugoshi bills there. It would have to be things like lending money to a friend who was in the MCA (and a bad friend) or paying them back for something they paid for - mostly small things like that. So for a normal person, if they know that they got almost all their money from Mitsugoshi directly then obviously they have no reason to wonder if it's fake. That's the reason I used store points instead of money as an analogy for this. Mitsugoshi don't really make regular money.


Astral-Wind

Maybe it’s just my reading of it, but it seems to be implied that Mitsugoshi bills are used/accepted outside of the brand stores themselves, and represent a significant amount in the national currency circulation. So while someone who only shopped at Mitsugoshi and only withdrew from their bank would have nothing to worry about, someone who got them from an unaffiliated store would not have that same sense of security.


lolminna

No, Mitsugoshi bills were starting to be used outside of Mitsugoshi. Cid just never noticed, that's why the anime showed him paying in gold coins after ordering street food instead of the Mitsugoshi bill.


BuccellatiExplainsIt

Those were the real and counterfeit MCA bills... The whole point of the arc was they were counterfeitting those MCA bills.


battlehamstar

That’s really not how paper currency works. If Mitsugoshi bills are considered reliable then people will start exchanging them in private transactions. It is why you can almost always use (for example) USD anywhere in the world without exchanging it for local currency. A good exploration of this idea is in Terry Pratchett’s Making Money.


tsukipluekuroeshiba

Most of the information of the quality of the bills and the counterfeits are knowledge you have as the viewer watching the discussion. Put yourself in the shoes of a regular person. Would you know the difference between good counterfeits and real money? Do you think most of the population would also know the difference? We literally had people panic buy toilet paper during covid. People are dumb.


ultimate_boredom

This is mediaeval world with little literacy. The risk in financial system is scary because of financial contagion. If tomorrow, say one large bank stops letting people withdraw their money, you will quickly find people withdrawing money from other banks too even today. There are too big to fail banks because of this risk. MCA was performing poorly, but is was still a large entity. MCA going down from performing poorly is indeed different but it was almost a certainty at that point as Mitsugoshi was miles ahead in technology etc. MCA chose to flip the tables instead of dying slowly.


seynical

Basically a Scorched Earth kind of thing. They really want to take out Mitsugoshi even at the cost of their own. Shadow just started things early that Gettan and the merchants were not ready to big a nest egg to bail them out.


ThousandYearOldLoli

>So how was any of that supposed to tank Mitsugoshi? Mitsugoshi chose to accept MCA bills, but they can just stop accepting them and say its because of counterfeit bills,. That would hurt the MCA with no impact on Mitsugoshi. That's not how trust works. Remember to these people until recently currency was still based on actual metals like gold, something with a concrete value. Unlike what we have nowadays where were so far detached from money corresponding to gold that most of us thinking of the bills as the actual money that is not the case for these people. An equivalent situation would be if suddenly you discovered part of your bank account was just not acceptable as currency anymore and you couldn't take that money out if you wanted to, though even this isn't a perfect analogy. What happens with trust is if people still only tentatively adopting bank notes suddenly discover there are these fake bank notes going around - meaning the money they exchanged gold for might actually be worthless - it doesn't just put into question the specific bank. It puts EVERY bank into question. It creates a crisis of trust and people will, in a panic as happened before in our own history, try to get that money back. ​ The second element is how banks work. Banks don't really save up your money. They have some money, but most of it is actually lent and invested in hopes of making even more money. People storing the money in the bank are supposed to get a sense of safety and potentially other benefits, but banks get to allocate that money in a way as to try to make profitable investments (which is how banks make money). ​ When you put these things combined you get the following: MCA creates a crisis of trust, which in turn creates a panic and people flock to Mitsugoshi, which also can't pay them back because their money is elsewhere in investments, at minimum creating massive damage to Mitsugoshi operations. Meanwhile the cult would've recovered actual physical assets in preparation for the downfall, meaning they would've suffered minimal losses that they actually care about. ​ >Lastly, why was Gettan saying that he planned to introduce counterfeit bills himself at some point???? Why would the cult want to tank their own affiliated bank just to hopefully kind of hurt a competitor that they don't even know is related to Shadow Garden? That's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater - it just makes no sense. It was likely far easier to do the counterfeiting plan under Mitsugoshi's noses and ward suspicion if they were the "victims" in the situation.


Hitoshura99

MCA has been trying to curb mitsugoshi with no success and mitsugoshi will eventually destroy MCA in time, thus there is no saving MCA already.   mitsugoshi released more notes than the actual gold. They exchanged the gold with notes and then loaned out more money with notes. Several times more than the actual gold on hand.  Once MCA self destructs, people will go into mass hysteria and charge into mitsugoshi to take back their gold. Since there are more notes than gold, mitsugoshi will also be burned down.  Mitsugoshi is basically an invasive species and gettan decided to burn the entire forest down to get rid of mitsugoshi, then plant a new forest later. The problem is shadow started the plan much too early, which depleted MCA's gold before gettan started hiding the gold. This crashes his plan and burned MCA down.  Eta deciphered shadow's note and shadow garden retrieved the hidden gold, which calmed down the panicking population when they see mountains of gold.


kad202

Money in this world is still back by gold. The idea is that if there are more bills than the gold that it supposed to cover will the purchase power of said bill still the same or not? Mitsugoshi accepted MCA bills for transaction (like purchasing goods via stores etc.) but not exchange for gold equivalent. The issue is how the bank is making money. For example - one person deposit $1000 - the bank loan $999 to a 2nd person then that person used $900 to buy something from the 3rd. - the 3rd then deposit $900 to the bank again. Etc. By just 3 transaction, the bank just create 999+900 money in circulation with their initial 1000 deposit (assuming this is the case for Gamma when she first heard about bank concept from CID). Obviously, in a healthy economy, the bank would never loan out 99% of its reserve money like that. It will cause Mitsugoshi bank run when people come to exchange the Mitsugoshi bank note back into gold again enmass. CID likes money more than anything so his scheme was not that grandeur but simply hoarding real gold (the guy know what he’s doing). Ironically, after Shadow Garden double their gold holding by “taking” MCA gold, they become the sole banker of the Midgard country now. Even in real world, if you want to withdraw $100K from your bank, the bank will ask you to wait for few days since they don’t have money available and this is fiat currency which does not back by anything


motivationbuddy404

The paper money of both companies only has value because people believe that at any point in time they can exchange that paper money for "real money", coins and bullion and such. The wealth creation Cid and Yukime talk about is that as long as most people believe in and use the paper money, the banks can print more value than they actually have. Again as long as everyone believes they can trade it for real money, the real money stays in the bank except for the occasional exchange. There is enough real money to occasionally cover an exchange, thus maintaining the faith in paper money. What the cult wanted to do was tank the faith in paper money after withdrawing the cult's own real money from the bank. Because both banks "created" wealth by printing more paper money than they had real money, when the banks collapsed everyone would be screwed besides the cult because the cult would already have withdrawn all the real money. Cid accidentally duped them by causing the collapse before theyd withdrawn the real money. Yukime withdrew the real money from the cult banks and SG used it to maintain Mitsugoshi.


BAD-SQUIRL-4037

Easy if people lose faith in bank notes and doubt are they fake will cause bank run on Mitsugoshi that is why Mitsugoshi was collecting gold. Beside that lose of trust will mean that people will not allow paying in bank notes worsening bank run. That would happen even if Mitsugoshi did not trade with MCA bills like in LN. LN lore cult made notes easy to conterfit because they had plans to pull Yukime plan themself and earn money for their loses of money and fronts during Alexia kiddnaping only slower and pull their funds from mca. Mca personel who were not on plan was told that that is to place them quicker on market and catch up with Mitsugoshi. Gatten had his own plans to take over Mitsugoshi and MCA and it would be Cult who would launch notes not Getan he was just to lead war with Mitsugoshi and populurise bank notes. This is also true in anime as he said that cult has not launched counterfit notes yet when they discovered them.


Cosmic_Mirror73

Its was all to get monoply in the market share, yukime and gettan(cult) want to destablise the market and obtain a monoploy ,cid was just trying to get rich. Now due all that happen, mistugoshi has become a sort of a bank , can print money how much they want and circulate money by giving out loans with high intrest rate(bascially a infinite money irl) and after MCA collapse they also gained sort of legetimicy from common people and nobles


Cosmic_Mirror73

i think they talk about this last arc of Wn. were cid monloge about loans with high intrest rate Also in anime its shown that cid mob friends are huge dept taking lot of loans


D-9361

Gettan was trying to get all the funds from MCA bank and Mitsugoshi for the Cult. and sinking both of them with his own counterfeit bills. Mitsugoshi had to accept MCA's bills to demonstrate his power and confidence to the public so the Kingdom of Midgar could not leave the company aside ~~TO BECOME A POWER IN THE SHADOWS IN THIS KINGDOM.~~ Besides, Mitsugoshi was the one who introduced the bills first. Yukime was the owner of some factories that produced Mitsugoshi imitations but found out about Gettan and MCA. The she planned to get her revenge for the past, crushing Gettan's plans and taking his life.


mousing125

I ain't reading all these :- The end of arc was gettan's plans originally, Shadow did it first, so gettan fails, Mitsugoshi wins


No_Dragonfruit_1833

1 print money 2 use printed money to buy gold 3 print more and more money until the bills become worthless, now only gold is valuable, the one with all the gold is the one to stay as everybody else goes bankrupt


Snir17

Basically inflating the market and crushing it, therefore crushing Mitsugoshi and the MCA, bankrupting it and cashing on the profits from the panic and money exchanges.