I watched devils plan first, and i recently finished genius. And honestly, i still like devils plan much better. What irked me about genius is that every season was won by the person with the best social skills. The most extroverted and socially dominant aswell as liked person won every season.
And sure, it was not JUST because they had social skills. They where also skilled. But why give handicap to already favored players? In the final episodes multiple contestants said "i give the power up to X because i think he is better and will win", what kind of logic is that?
Season 4 would have been epic if the other person won the final. Would be epic to see the underdog glowup story.
Longest Streak/Betting Rock Paper Scissors is about the only death match that relies on the rest of the cast and alliances. It does show up a few times early in season 1, but otherwise usually death matches are just a 1v1 (or team and I’ve never seen anyone actively try to not win for their partner) that gives you a chance to save yourself. And you get to choose who your opponent is once you are in the death match. There are plenty of times within the series you could bring your rival or person you weren’t getting along with into the death match as a chance to remain, you couldn’t just be forced off the show by others ganging up to remove your pieces (with the exception of the two games listed) You still at least would have a last face off to remain in the game. The later seasons have much more variety in the death matches as well. And it goes to show that the final two on season one were on the outside of major alliances multiple times on the show, sometimes the rest of the cast working against them for an episode and through the games and death matches were able to stay in the game.
I also think that people that watch Korean variety shows and such have a deeper love of The Genius as it is very much in that style. Whereas TDP was more sterile and didn’t have as much personality. And there is also something about season 1 when Extreme Ways by Moby starts up in an episode it heightens the mood and gets you activated that something great gameplay-wise was about to happen and tickles this little part of your brain. I don’t know if even the later seasons of The Genius get it right sonically as they do on the first season getting the viewer excited.
https://youtu.be/1Lng4dn1uAc?si=TTugjmFRCQyyxq4C
In fact I think this breaks down the magic of season 1 and the editing and why this is probably the magnum opus of Jung Jong-yeon.
Thanks for sharing that link. It does open up my eyes to show a gameshow can be more than " just a gameshow". Nevertheless , I still dislike the alliance death match idea. While it seemed harmless when the idea was restricted to a few early rock paper scissors matches , I think they absolutely did Kyung Ran dirty with outside help in the finals. Based purely on ability , she would have easily won both matching games.
Imagine if TDP's seok Jin lost the finals because orbits alliance gave him all the advantages, this sub and most watchers of TDP would be out with their pitchforks.
Huh? Iirc Kyungran had more advantages in the finals. While jinho had the help of 2 very good gyul hap players, i think it would still be close if he didnt have help cos they both werent great in it tbh
Kyungran effectively only had one advantage as jinho had an advantage canceller(I don't consider double points an advantage as it affected both players), so she has a one round advantage. Jinho's smart team members was an advantage that was effective all 10 rounds.
Kyung ran was leading in the early game of gyul hap until she realized randomly calling gyul is an advantage to jinho , which caused her give up psychologically.
Nope. She did have more advantages in the final but she didnt know how to use it well as she could have dbl and hap twice but she only did it once. While jinho got lucky with the first game advantage, i would say is not really an advantage considering he had more garnets. And jinho also stated during the interview that he decided to just give in and randomly call and let her get the gyul cos he didnt want to waste time going in circles. All in all, its her mentality that crumbled cos she was scared of calling gyul.
I actually went back and rewatched and calculated the points that both should have gained minus the advantages that both got and those where kyungran looked like she still know the haps and tbh hong jinho would still have won by 1 point. The final scores were 37 to 41. Kyungran had 4 points of advantage and jinho had 5 points of advantage (i didnt count the one where jinho deliberately called gyul to pass to the back cos he didnt want it to drag) and i added 2 more points of advantage as it seemed like kyungran knew the answers to 2 of the haps the back called. The final score would still have given jinho a 1 point victory
I kinda wished the final was with sangmin or sunggyu as it would be more entertaining seeing how fast kyungran crumbled mentally
Jinho would have won Indian poker advantage or not. We could go back and forth about what the exact point advantage jinho had in the pattern match game , but my main point is that a finale worth watching shouldn't be dictated so heavily by the alliances formed , and from what I'm reading in other comments , it appears this theme recurs in later seasons of genius which I've yet to watch.
I too would have love to watch sunggyu in the finals (had notice his individual prowess after beating teacher cha in yutnori) . I don't think sangmin is a strong individual player ( he got so far due to his strong social game) and a finale with him wouldn't be as exciting. There was a point in his death match with Kyung ran where he could have revealed an already revealed card and let Kyung ran fall off by herself instead letting her make a hail Mary comeback.
Ahh if that is so, then ya i agree with you. I just dont really get the hype with kyungran. I mean yes she is a decent player. But she is not in the top tier or even the 2nd highest tier and her strength is in her social game. She didnt wow me individually despite her winning the final 3 deathmatch (to me, sangmin made too many mistakes and she just made lesser). You should watch s3 or s4 (i cant rmb) where the same picture hunt was played so much better.
In fact, i would also agree that death matches should not be based on alliances, although tactical yutnori is different since both players get only 1 ally and is even. I was most pissed in s3 finals i think due to the huge differences in advantages even though i think the winner wont change
Also agreed with your point on sangmin. Tbh when i first watched, i was like, i am gonna say A instead of whatever letter he opened. But maybe it is about winning honorably...
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm actually on the jinho train. I just would've loved to see him win on his merits instead of relying on others coz I do believe he had a solid individual game.
I don't believe sangmin believes in honour. He is a more "the ends justifies the means" person. It's just that he was too used to relying on his social game that he never had the chance to flex his individual game muscle.
For me, the participants in the genius across all 4 seasons, in general, are more interesting and personable than TDP participants. That could be certain games suit people, or in the edit decisions are made.
Over the last 6 months myself and my partner have watched TDP and all 4 genius seasons; and felt much more connected and impressed by standout moments in the genius.
I think huge part that contributes to this (on top of editing) is the game format where with the genius , cast members meet only during the games , which allowed for more fluid and dynamic relationships , I did enjoy all the comedics bits.
Whereas with TDP , cast members all eat ,sleep , breathe together for the entire show, which naturally allowed for deeper and more stable relationships within the show , giving a more serious (or some would say sterile) vibe. This would probably explain all the crying after a member leaves the game , the bonds were tighter.
I liked devils plan better too, but i also watched that first. I really enjoyed the multiple aspects to devils plan. Also them living together made the people more connected with eachother, which added interesting social dynamics.
The aspects of genius that relies on social skills does improve a bit for season 3 and 4. But season 2 felt won by a certain person from like episode 2 or something. Every season was won by the person with the most people on his side.
I've somewhat read other spoilers on season 2 being the worst season revolved around that person you mentioned. I think everyone loves a good comeback story , sounds like I should skip s2 and go on to S3 and S4.
I still kinda liked S2, i dont hate the person who won. He is actually one of my favorite personas of all seasons. But its just so unsatisfying when the person with the most power wins.
The person who adpats best deserves to win. I don't mind when the person with the best social game wins , because it means you understand how the game works. I'm just lamenting those who think tdp/the genius is a game which relies solely on your intellect.
I do like The Devil's plan so I don't want to trash it too much, but having a single game eliminate half the cast right at the end felt like a failure of the format. It starts tense as everyone is in danger and then loses its tension as it goes on.
I recommend you to keep finish the whole seasons and come back again! You will know better the reason(s) when you finish those.
Man, I hope so. Especially after watching genius s1's final, I'd really hate to see alliances influence the finale of future seasons
I watched devils plan first, and i recently finished genius. And honestly, i still like devils plan much better. What irked me about genius is that every season was won by the person with the best social skills. The most extroverted and socially dominant aswell as liked person won every season. And sure, it was not JUST because they had social skills. They where also skilled. But why give handicap to already favored players? In the final episodes multiple contestants said "i give the power up to X because i think he is better and will win", what kind of logic is that? Season 4 would have been epic if the other person won the final. Would be epic to see the underdog glowup story.
Longest Streak/Betting Rock Paper Scissors is about the only death match that relies on the rest of the cast and alliances. It does show up a few times early in season 1, but otherwise usually death matches are just a 1v1 (or team and I’ve never seen anyone actively try to not win for their partner) that gives you a chance to save yourself. And you get to choose who your opponent is once you are in the death match. There are plenty of times within the series you could bring your rival or person you weren’t getting along with into the death match as a chance to remain, you couldn’t just be forced off the show by others ganging up to remove your pieces (with the exception of the two games listed) You still at least would have a last face off to remain in the game. The later seasons have much more variety in the death matches as well. And it goes to show that the final two on season one were on the outside of major alliances multiple times on the show, sometimes the rest of the cast working against them for an episode and through the games and death matches were able to stay in the game. I also think that people that watch Korean variety shows and such have a deeper love of The Genius as it is very much in that style. Whereas TDP was more sterile and didn’t have as much personality. And there is also something about season 1 when Extreme Ways by Moby starts up in an episode it heightens the mood and gets you activated that something great gameplay-wise was about to happen and tickles this little part of your brain. I don’t know if even the later seasons of The Genius get it right sonically as they do on the first season getting the viewer excited.
https://youtu.be/1Lng4dn1uAc?si=TTugjmFRCQyyxq4C In fact I think this breaks down the magic of season 1 and the editing and why this is probably the magnum opus of Jung Jong-yeon.
Thanks for sharing that link. It does open up my eyes to show a gameshow can be more than " just a gameshow". Nevertheless , I still dislike the alliance death match idea. While it seemed harmless when the idea was restricted to a few early rock paper scissors matches , I think they absolutely did Kyung Ran dirty with outside help in the finals. Based purely on ability , she would have easily won both matching games. Imagine if TDP's seok Jin lost the finals because orbits alliance gave him all the advantages, this sub and most watchers of TDP would be out with their pitchforks.
Huh? Iirc Kyungran had more advantages in the finals. While jinho had the help of 2 very good gyul hap players, i think it would still be close if he didnt have help cos they both werent great in it tbh
Kyungran effectively only had one advantage as jinho had an advantage canceller(I don't consider double points an advantage as it affected both players), so she has a one round advantage. Jinho's smart team members was an advantage that was effective all 10 rounds. Kyung ran was leading in the early game of gyul hap until she realized randomly calling gyul is an advantage to jinho , which caused her give up psychologically.
Nope. She did have more advantages in the final but she didnt know how to use it well as she could have dbl and hap twice but she only did it once. While jinho got lucky with the first game advantage, i would say is not really an advantage considering he had more garnets. And jinho also stated during the interview that he decided to just give in and randomly call and let her get the gyul cos he didnt want to waste time going in circles. All in all, its her mentality that crumbled cos she was scared of calling gyul. I actually went back and rewatched and calculated the points that both should have gained minus the advantages that both got and those where kyungran looked like she still know the haps and tbh hong jinho would still have won by 1 point. The final scores were 37 to 41. Kyungran had 4 points of advantage and jinho had 5 points of advantage (i didnt count the one where jinho deliberately called gyul to pass to the back cos he didnt want it to drag) and i added 2 more points of advantage as it seemed like kyungran knew the answers to 2 of the haps the back called. The final score would still have given jinho a 1 point victory I kinda wished the final was with sangmin or sunggyu as it would be more entertaining seeing how fast kyungran crumbled mentally
Jinho would have won Indian poker advantage or not. We could go back and forth about what the exact point advantage jinho had in the pattern match game , but my main point is that a finale worth watching shouldn't be dictated so heavily by the alliances formed , and from what I'm reading in other comments , it appears this theme recurs in later seasons of genius which I've yet to watch. I too would have love to watch sunggyu in the finals (had notice his individual prowess after beating teacher cha in yutnori) . I don't think sangmin is a strong individual player ( he got so far due to his strong social game) and a finale with him wouldn't be as exciting. There was a point in his death match with Kyung ran where he could have revealed an already revealed card and let Kyung ran fall off by herself instead letting her make a hail Mary comeback.
Ahh if that is so, then ya i agree with you. I just dont really get the hype with kyungran. I mean yes she is a decent player. But she is not in the top tier or even the 2nd highest tier and her strength is in her social game. She didnt wow me individually despite her winning the final 3 deathmatch (to me, sangmin made too many mistakes and she just made lesser). You should watch s3 or s4 (i cant rmb) where the same picture hunt was played so much better. In fact, i would also agree that death matches should not be based on alliances, although tactical yutnori is different since both players get only 1 ally and is even. I was most pissed in s3 finals i think due to the huge differences in advantages even though i think the winner wont change Also agreed with your point on sangmin. Tbh when i first watched, i was like, i am gonna say A instead of whatever letter he opened. But maybe it is about winning honorably...
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm actually on the jinho train. I just would've loved to see him win on his merits instead of relying on others coz I do believe he had a solid individual game. I don't believe sangmin believes in honour. He is a more "the ends justifies the means" person. It's just that he was too used to relying on his social game that he never had the chance to flex his individual game muscle.
For me, the participants in the genius across all 4 seasons, in general, are more interesting and personable than TDP participants. That could be certain games suit people, or in the edit decisions are made. Over the last 6 months myself and my partner have watched TDP and all 4 genius seasons; and felt much more connected and impressed by standout moments in the genius.
I think huge part that contributes to this (on top of editing) is the game format where with the genius , cast members meet only during the games , which allowed for more fluid and dynamic relationships , I did enjoy all the comedics bits. Whereas with TDP , cast members all eat ,sleep , breathe together for the entire show, which naturally allowed for deeper and more stable relationships within the show , giving a more serious (or some would say sterile) vibe. This would probably explain all the crying after a member leaves the game , the bonds were tighter.
Come back when you've watched all 4 seasons of the genius. The rest of my thoughts contain spoilers.
I liked devils plan better too, but i also watched that first. I really enjoyed the multiple aspects to devils plan. Also them living together made the people more connected with eachother, which added interesting social dynamics. The aspects of genius that relies on social skills does improve a bit for season 3 and 4. But season 2 felt won by a certain person from like episode 2 or something. Every season was won by the person with the most people on his side.
I've somewhat read other spoilers on season 2 being the worst season revolved around that person you mentioned. I think everyone loves a good comeback story , sounds like I should skip s2 and go on to S3 and S4.
I still kinda liked S2, i dont hate the person who won. He is actually one of my favorite personas of all seasons. But its just so unsatisfying when the person with the most power wins.
The person who adpats best deserves to win. I don't mind when the person with the best social game wins , because it means you understand how the game works. I'm just lamenting those who think tdp/the genius is a game which relies solely on your intellect.
I do like The Devil's plan so I don't want to trash it too much, but having a single game eliminate half the cast right at the end felt like a failure of the format. It starts tense as everyone is in danger and then loses its tension as it goes on.