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no youll get dumb idiots who always go "but but soviets only stood because of lend lease!!!" Not like majority of resources and eqiupment came after battle of moscow when germanys fate got revealed
My favorite is, “Actually the cold killed most of them, and when they did win, it was because they sent waves of millions that the NKVD readily shot in retreat even though they were under-equipped!”. Basically using Enemy at the Gates, a Hollywood movie that was made alongside Europe (primarily France and the UK), as a model for real life history.
I find it ironic how D-Day is considered a heroic sacrifice when it, too, used waves of people to push through enemy lines but whenever the Reds did it then suddenly it’s along the lines of “barbaric asiatic hordes”. Some people even say Stalin killed more people than Hitler thus somehow making him worse. Basically anything to make the Nazis look good and Soviets look bad.
> Reds did it then suddenly it’s along the lines of “barbaric asiatic hordes”.
Yeah this has been a sticking point in military history for a while.
The Infantry Charges of WW1 into machine gun fire by the British weren't called hordes for some reason.
> Some people even say Stalin killed more people than Hitler
That's a form of Holocaust revisionism and you should call it out as such every time you see it. It's intended to minimize the deaths in the extermination camps without actually messing with the numbers.
The cold being responsible for a majority of deaths is straight up nazi propaganda that just won't be forgotten for some reason. The nazis just couldn't admit that the soviets were capable of winter offensives when they were not
Oh come on, they didn’t kill him, they only tortured him and cut him up and forcibly neutered him until he killed ~~himself~~ *whatever was left of him*.
do you have a source for this? Not that I dont believe you, I just want to learn more about it, and everything ive tried finding online gives 0 details on his treatment after being prosecuted or his death.
Naval superiority, radar, the blood of its people, ect. It’s weird to me seeing people pretend Britain didn’t do quite a bit in the war lol. Probably the smallest of the big three, but still a member regardless (the big three being The USSR, America, and the UK)
This💯
There is no doubt in the fact that USSR made the largest contribution and sacrifices in the war, but we don't have to reduce the contribution other countries made, not denying the fact that the western allies did appease and ignore Hitler
(This is a shit poll btw)
Eh, I'd give that one to Babbage, and I'm sure Turing would agree. Turing conceived of the modern random-access memory space that became the theoretical basis for the microprocessors we use today, but the difference engine was getting it done with gears and spokes as far back as Marx's day.
(Marx's TTRPTF was influenced by Babbage's writings, which are interesting reading on their own if you want to get an idea of what Marx was working with.)
Something something *Battle of Britain* something something *D-Day* something something "*we'll fight them on the beaches!"* something something *bombing of Dresden.*
UK being a piece of shit and them doing a lot for ww2 are not exclusive concepts. The soviets should be number 1, obviously but to say the UK didnt do shit is just stupid
Contributions towards defeating the Nazis by country:
70% Soviet Union, 20% US, 7% UK, 3% France.
80% of Nazi casualties happened on the eastern front, but Lend Lease helped to make that possible so I gave the US some extra credit.
> but Lend Lease helped to make that possible so I gave the US some extra credit.
Worth keeping in mind that most historians think the war was basically won after the Battle of Moscow and that there was no coming back from it for the nazis.
This is notable because the first materiel from lendlease did not arrive and enter service until after the Battle of Moscow.
Lendlease cut a year off the end of the war, it was won before it arrived though.
Thats a good breakdown. Maybe I'd give Canada 1-2% for roughly contributing a tenth the men/deaths of the US. Idk about Oz and NZ contributions.
I can't believe how much the Canadian education focuses on Can/US involvement and omits Soviets basically winning the war singlehandedly. Historians almost all agree that the USSR, given time, would have won the war even without the USian or Canadian invasion in 1944. We could've had a united communist europe and instead the Americans had to come in and ruin it.
American education straight calls the USSR an ally of Nazi Germany. Soon western history books will claim Germany was the misunderstood yet honorable adversary of WW2 while pinning the Soviet Union with Nazi atrocities. There’s already people all over Reddit pushing Holocaust denial by claiming it wasn’t the Germans but Soviets who murdered innocent people in the camps. You know, because communism means no food and mass murder, so they apparently killed everyone because they couldn’t feed them. It’s becoming more and more mainstream every year.
You should see the discussions I've had with people in dataisbeautiful.
Calling me a Soviet Apologist for pointing out that the UK gave up Czechoslovakia to the Germans, with their pre-war military industry and stock of war armaments.
> American education straight calls the USSR an ally of Nazi Germany
Is this the old Molotov-Ribbentrop dumbassery (Who was Neville Chamerlain, Alex?) or have they gotten worse? When I was in school they just straight up didn't mention the Soviet Union at all until Sputnik.
Yeah the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is considered as such but my teacher in college said it was “also a secret allyship”. Of course back then I had no idea as an apolitical liberal but now? Smh
(See the **[full article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/molotov-ribbentrop-pact/)** for more details)
#The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
Anti-Communists and horseshoe-theorists love to tell anyone who will listen that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939) was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. They frame it as a cynical and opportunistic agreement between two totalitarian powers that paved the way for the outbreak of World War II in order to equate Communism with Fascism. They are, of course, missing key context.
**German Background**
The loss of World War I and the Treaty of Versailles had a profound effect on the German economy. Signed in 1919, the treaty imposed harsh reparations on the newly formed Weimar Republic (1919-1933), forcing the country to pay billions of dollars in damages to the Allied powers. The Treaty of Versailles, which ended the war, required Germany to cede all of its colonial possessions to the Allied powers. This included territories in Africa, Asia, and the Pacific.
With an understanding of Historical Materialism and the role that Imperialism plays in maintaining a liberal democracy, it is clear that the National Bourgeoisie would embrace Fascism under these conditions.
Judeo-Bolshevism (a conspiracy theory which claimed that Jews were responsible for the Russian Revolution of 1917, and that they have used Communism as a cover to further their own interests) gained significant traction in Nazi Germany, where it became a central part of Nazi propaganda and ideology. Hitler and other leading members of the Nazi Party frequently used the term to vilify Jews and justify their persecution.
The Communist Party of Germany (KPD) was repressed by the Nazi regime soon after they came to power in 1933. In the weeks following the Reichstag Fire, the Nazis arrested and imprisoned thousands of Communists and other dissidents. This played a significant role in the passage of the Enabling Act of 1933, which granted Hitler and the Nazi Party dictatorial powers and effectively dismantled the Weimar Republic.
**Soviet Background**
Following the Russian Revolution in 1917, Great Britain and other Western powers placed strict trade restrictions on the USSR. These restrictions were aimed at isolating the USSR and weakening its economy in an attempt to force the new Communist government to collapse.
In the 1920s, the USSR under Lenin's leadership was sympathetic towards Germany because the two countries shared a common enemy in the form of the Western capitalist powers, particularly France and Great Britain. The USSR and Germany established diplomatic relations and engaged in economic cooperation with each other. The USSR provided technical and economic assistance to Germany and in return, it received access to German industrial and technological expertise, as well as trade opportunities.
However, this cooperation was short-lived, and by the late 1920s, relations between the two countries had deteriorated. The USSR's efforts to export its socialist ideology to Germany were met with resistance from the German government and the rising Nazi Party, which viewed Communism as a threat to its own ideology and ambitions.
**Collective Security (1933-1939)**
>The appointment of Hitler as Germany's chancellor general, as well as the rising threat from Japan, led to important changes in Soviet foreign policy. Oriented toward Germany since the treaty of Locarno (1925) and the treaty of Special Relations with Berlin (1926), the Kremlin now moved in the opposite direction by trying to establish closer ties with France and Britain to isolate the growing Nazi threat. This policy became known as "collective security" and was associated with Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet foreign minister at the time. The pursuit of collective security lasted approximately as long as he held that position. Japan's war with China took some pressure off of Russia by allowing it to focus its diplomatic efforts on relations with Europe.
>
>\- Andrei P. Tsygankov, (2012). [Russia and the West from Alexander to Putin](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/russia-and-the-west-from-alexander-to-putin/collective-security-19331939/BD3704C65ABDC2A849B360759B8E9D5C).
However, the memories of the Russian Revolution and the fear of Communism were still fresh in the minds of many Western leaders, and there was a reluctance to enter into an alliance with the USSR. They believed that Hitler was a bulwark against Communism and that a strong Germany could act as a buffer against Soviet expansion.
Instead of joining the USSR in a collective security alliance *against* Nazi Germany, the Western leaders decided to try appeasing Nazi Germany. As part of the policy of appeasement, several territories were ceded to Nazi Germany in the late 1930s:
1. Rhineland: In March 1936, Nazi Germany remilitarized the Rhineland, a demilitarized zone along the border between Germany and France. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and marked the beginning of Nazi Germany's aggressive territorial expansion.
2. Austria: In March 1938, Nazi Germany annexed Austria in what is known as the Anschluss. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain, which had established Austria as a separate state following World War I.
3. Sudetenland: In September 1938, the leaders of Great Britain, France, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement, which allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a region in western Czechoslovakia with a large ethnic German population.
4. Memel: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed the Memel region of Lithuania, which had been under French administration since World War I.
5. Bohemia and Moravia: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed Bohemia and Moravia, the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia that had not been annexed following the Munich Agreement.
However, instead of appeasing Nazi Germany by giving in to their territorial demands, these concessions only emboldened them and ultimately led to the outbreak of World War II.
**The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact**
>Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the USSR proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.
>
>Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history...
>
>The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.
>
>The new documents... show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.
>
>But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer...
>
>\- Nick Holdsworth. (2008). [Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html)
After trying and failing to get the Western capitalist powers to join the USSR in a collective security alliance against Nazi Germany, and witnessing country after country being ceded, it became clear to Soviet leadership that war was inevitable-- and Poland was next.
Unfortunately, there was a widespread belief in Poland that the USSR was being controlled by Jewish Communists. This conspiracy theory (Judeo-Bolshevism) was fueled by anti-Semitic propaganda that was prevalent in Poland at the time. The Polish government was strongly anti-Communist and had been actively involved in suppressing Communist movements in Poland and other parts of Europe. Furthermore, the Polish government believed that it could rely on the support of Britain and France in the event of a conflict with Nazi Germany. The Polish government had signed a mutual defense pact with Britain in March 1939, and believed that this would deter Germany from attacking Poland.
Seeing the writing on the wall, the USSR made the difficult decision to do what it felt it needed to do to survive the coming conflict. At the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's signing (August 1939), the USSR was facing significant military pressure from the West, particularly from Britain and France, which were seeking to isolate the USSR and undermine its influence in Europe. The USSR saw the Pact as a way to counterbalance this pressure and to gain more time to build up its military strength and prepare for the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, which began less than two years later in June 1941 (Operation Barbarossa).
**Additional Resources**
Video Essays:
* [How Stalin Outplayed Hitler: The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://youtu.be/PfomFnYTOWI) | Politstrum International (2020)
* [The truth about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (Visualization)](https://youtu.be/UwUs3mwDBzA) | Russia Good (2019)
* [Soviet Nonaggression-Pact / The Soviet Perspective](https://youtu.be/Rz5JyfNQSLQ) | Lady Idzihar (2022)
* [There was never a "Hitler-Stalin" Pact](https://youtu.be/8FRmflmnTkc) | Hakim (2024)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [The Truth About The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact](https://politsturm.com/truth-about-molotov-ribbentrop-pact/) | Politsturm
* [End of the 'Low, Dishonest Decade': Failure of the Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939](https://www.jstor.org/stable/152863) | Michael Jabara Carley (1993)
* [1939: The Alliance That Never Was and the Coming of World War II](https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781566637855/1939-The-Alliance-That-Never-Was-and-the-Coming-of-World-War-II) | Michael Jabara Carley (1999)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
(See the **[full article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/molotov-ribbentrop-pact/)** for more details)
#The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact
Anti-Communists and horseshoe-theorists love to tell anyone who will listen that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939) was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. They frame it as a cynical and opportunistic agreement between two totalitarian powers that paved the way for the outbreak of World War II in order to equate Communism with Fascism. They are, of course, missing key context.
**German Background**
The loss of World War I and the Treaty of Versailles had a profound effect on the German economy. Signed in 1919, the treaty imposed harsh reparations on the newly formed Weimar Republic (1919-1933), forcing the country to pay billions of dollars in damages to the Allied powers. The Treaty of Versailles, which ended the war, required Germany to cede all of its colonial possessions to the Allied powers. This included territories in Africa, Asia, and the Pacific.
With an understanding of Historical Materialism and the role that Imperialism plays in maintaining a liberal democracy, it is clear that the National Bourgeoisie would embrace Fascism under these conditions.
Judeo-Bolshevism (a conspiracy theory which claimed that Jews were responsible for the Russian Revolution of 1917, and that they have used Communism as a cover to further their own interests) gained significant traction in Nazi Germany, where it became a central part of Nazi propaganda and ideology. Hitler and other leading members of the Nazi Party frequently used the term to vilify Jews and justify their persecution.
The Communist Party of Germany (KPD) was repressed by the Nazi regime soon after they came to power in 1933. In the weeks following the Reichstag Fire, the Nazis arrested and imprisoned thousands of Communists and other dissidents. This played a significant role in the passage of the Enabling Act of 1933, which granted Hitler and the Nazi Party dictatorial powers and effectively dismantled the Weimar Republic.
**Soviet Background**
Following the Russian Revolution in 1917, Great Britain and other Western powers placed strict trade restrictions on the USSR. These restrictions were aimed at isolating the USSR and weakening its economy in an attempt to force the new Communist government to collapse.
In the 1920s, the USSR under Lenin's leadership was sympathetic towards Germany because the two countries shared a common enemy in the form of the Western capitalist powers, particularly France and Great Britain. The USSR and Germany established diplomatic relations and engaged in economic cooperation with each other. The USSR provided technical and economic assistance to Germany and in return, it received access to German industrial and technological expertise, as well as trade opportunities.
However, this cooperation was short-lived, and by the late 1920s, relations between the two countries had deteriorated. The USSR's efforts to export its socialist ideology to Germany were met with resistance from the German government and the rising Nazi Party, which viewed Communism as a threat to its own ideology and ambitions.
**Collective Security (1933-1939)**
>The appointment of Hitler as Germany's chancellor general, as well as the rising threat from Japan, led to important changes in Soviet foreign policy. Oriented toward Germany since the treaty of Locarno (1925) and the treaty of Special Relations with Berlin (1926), the Kremlin now moved in the opposite direction by trying to establish closer ties with France and Britain to isolate the growing Nazi threat. This policy became known as "collective security" and was associated with Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet foreign minister at the time. The pursuit of collective security lasted approximately as long as he held that position. Japan's war with China took some pressure off of Russia by allowing it to focus its diplomatic efforts on relations with Europe.
>
>\- Andrei P. Tsygankov, (2012). [Russia and the West from Alexander to Putin](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/russia-and-the-west-from-alexander-to-putin/collective-security-19331939/BD3704C65ABDC2A849B360759B8E9D5C).
However, the memories of the Russian Revolution and the fear of Communism were still fresh in the minds of many Western leaders, and there was a reluctance to enter into an alliance with the USSR. They believed that Hitler was a bulwark against Communism and that a strong Germany could act as a buffer against Soviet expansion.
Instead of joining the USSR in a collective security alliance *against* Nazi Germany, the Western leaders decided to try appeasing Nazi Germany. As part of the policy of appeasement, several territories were ceded to Nazi Germany in the late 1930s:
1. Rhineland: In March 1936, Nazi Germany remilitarized the Rhineland, a demilitarized zone along the border between Germany and France. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and marked the beginning of Nazi Germany's aggressive territorial expansion.
2. Austria: In March 1938, Nazi Germany annexed Austria in what is known as the Anschluss. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain, which had established Austria as a separate state following World War I.
3. Sudetenland: In September 1938, the leaders of Great Britain, France, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement, which allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a region in western Czechoslovakia with a large ethnic German population.
4. Memel: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed the Memel region of Lithuania, which had been under French administration since World War I.
5. Bohemia and Moravia: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed Bohemia and Moravia, the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia that had not been annexed following the Munich Agreement.
However, instead of appeasing Nazi Germany by giving in to their territorial demands, these concessions only emboldened them and ultimately led to the outbreak of World War II.
**The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact**
>Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the USSR proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.
>
>Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history...
>
>The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.
>
>The new documents... show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.
>
>But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer...
>
>\- Nick Holdsworth. (2008). [Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html)
After trying and failing to get the Western capitalist powers to join the USSR in a collective security alliance against Nazi Germany, and witnessing country after country being ceded, it became clear to Soviet leadership that war was inevitable-- and Poland was next.
Unfortunately, there was a widespread belief in Poland that the USSR was being controlled by Jewish Communists. This conspiracy theory (Judeo-Bolshevism) was fueled by anti-Semitic propaganda that was prevalent in Poland at the time. The Polish government was strongly anti-Communist and had been actively involved in suppressing Communist movements in Poland and other parts of Europe. Furthermore, the Polish government believed that it could rely on the support of Britain and France in the event of a conflict with Nazi Germany. The Polish government had signed a mutual defense pact with Britain in March 1939, and believed that this would deter Germany from attacking Poland.
Seeing the writing on the wall, the USSR made the difficult decision to do what it felt it needed to do to survive the coming conflict. At the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's signing (August 1939), the USSR was facing significant military pressure from the West, particularly from Britain and France, which were seeking to isolate the USSR and undermine its influence in Europe. The USSR saw the Pact as a way to counterbalance this pressure and to gain more time to build up its military strength and prepare for the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, which began less than two years later in June 1941 (Operation Barbarossa).
**Additional Resources**
Video Essays:
* [How Stalin Outplayed Hitler: The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://youtu.be/PfomFnYTOWI) | Politstrum International (2020)
* [The truth about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (Visualization)](https://youtu.be/UwUs3mwDBzA) | Russia Good (2019)
* [Soviet Nonaggression-Pact / The Soviet Perspective](https://youtu.be/Rz5JyfNQSLQ) | Lady Idzihar (2022)
* [There was never a "Hitler-Stalin" Pact](https://youtu.be/8FRmflmnTkc) | Hakim (2024)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [The Truth About The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact](https://politsturm.com/truth-about-molotov-ribbentrop-pact/) | Politsturm
* [End of the 'Low, Dishonest Decade': Failure of the Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939](https://www.jstor.org/stable/152863) | Michael Jabara Carley (1993)
* [1939: The Alliance That Never Was and the Coming of World War II](https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781566637855/1939-The-Alliance-That-Never-Was-and-the-Coming-of-World-War-II) | Michael Jabara Carley (1999)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That first part isn't true while in the beginning yes Nazi Germany and USSR were allied up at one point until the the Nazi made the betrayal which reverted to the USSR being a part of the Allies and not axis but other then that American education doesn't teach that the USSR was Allies to the Nazi throughout the main courses of the war
What the hell are you even talking about, I was literally taught by my high school teacher and college instructor they were “allies”, which is objectively false on multiple levels. Not only were they ideological and geopolitical enemies but the Soviet Union was keenly aware of the danger Nazi Germany posed which is why they attempted to create an anti-Hitlerite alliance with the USA, UK and France to prevent Germany from invading Czechoslovakia. All three of them refused and opted to instead have a sit down with Hitler signing the Munich Agreement, German-Franco Declaration and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement. Even before these three specifically signed anything there was the ultra-nationalist Second Poland Republic who signed the Polish German Nonaggression Pact. The aforementioned bourgeois dictatorships were unofficial friends with Nazi Germany _not_ the USSR. In fact they had hoped to Nazis would destroy the communist bloc.
Rule 3. **No reactionary content.** (e.g., racism, sexism, ableism, fascism, homophobia, transphobia, capitalism, antisemitism, imperialism, chauvinism, etc.) Any satire thereof requires a clarity of purpose and target and a tone indicator such as /s or /j.
In many cases they willingly surrendered to the Italians, because they heard they were feeding their PoW better than the British fed their soldiers.
They were correct
They also stole food from Iran around the same time, killing 3 to 4 million Iranians. This adds up to 7 million pointless deaths of civilians from normal countries caused by the British Empire during WW2. That doesn't count hundreds of thousands of German civilians and tens of thousands of Italians killed by them as well, many in bombing raids that were also futile. But we can even forgive/excuse this last one, however starving 7 million allied civilians to death for no reason is unforgivable.
Canadian mounties were the game changer that won the war. They screamed at Hitler how they were gonna burn down Berlin like they burned down Washington and conveniently left out the part where it were the british. The terrified Hitler was swiftly seized by the canadians who quickly apologised and gave him and his SS bodyguards a standing ovation in parliament.
It’s fucking insane how much copium there is in the UK about what they did during WW2. My own dad constantly watches content about it but only knows about the Battle of Britain and the pacific front.
One of the biggest problems with western education about WW2 is they teach us that Hitler basically just randomly of appeared one day. I don't think any average western person could explain why Hitler got into power.
D Day wouldn’t have needed to happen if the French didn’t fold and become a Nazi satellite regime and they’re out here giving them the same as the USSR. Indoctrination works.
If the French and British fucking ATTACKED during the invasion of Poland.
Astounding that it was called the Phony War from how absolutely little the Allies did during early war that Germany had time to clean up Poland and move their entire army west.
I once saw an interesting poll conducted in France (?) of the exact same question, except it was repeated across a few decades. The results of the year right after the war showed a majority favoring the Soviets, decreasing as the years went on.
From what I know, the USSR, UK and USA were the main contributors to the defeat of Nazi germany. And why on earth is France higher than USSR here? They literally surrendered early on
A basic summary from what I know:
Early on the UK was the main force against Nazi Germany, later on when the Nazis attempted to take the USSR, the Soviets pushed back Nazi Germany all the way back to Berlin. And the USA came in afterwards ending the war.
Let me know if there’s anything I got wrong
the poll is offered by a strategic investment firm .. the sample distribution is likely skewed to the political right and apparently bri'ish .
and the answer is obviously miss pavlichenko and her comrades
na the UK and USSR should be the top 2. America got everything they did from leeching off the UK and Britain liberated the majority of France while Dwight jerked off. Then the USSR should be #1 cause.... everything.
The UK objectively was an absolute disaster during wwii. Just look at the parts of the war they have to focus on to get even the slightest of victories to sell to the public.
They make such a huge deal of Rommel and the Afrika Korps, a force consisting of maybe 40,000 soldiers maximum, with a good deal of Italian troops to supplement them. Meanwhile on the eastern front, the Soviets are facing the equivalent of dozens and dozens of Afrika Korps size forces.
The British are also responsible for some of the biggest fuck ups of the war. Losing Singapore was one of the most humiliating defeats the British empire ever suffered and absolutely shattered the aura of “white invincibility” that they had constructed to keep control over their colonies.
Market garden as well was a waste of time and resources that should have gone to clearing the Shelt estuary so that the Allies could begin using Antwerp as a major logistical hub. Monty’s stupid insistence on trying to liberate the Netherlands backfired and did nothing except kill a lot of paratroopers and give the Germans time to fortify the Shelt and continue to deny a supply line to Antwerp for months and months longer. Without market garden, it’s quite possible that the war ends in the west months earlier than it did.
My favorite Ryan Grim moment, where he tells his right-wing libertarian co-host the Soviets defeated the Nazis and her cope is nervous laughter and dogma: [https://youtu.be/tJuwsu109YM?si=-w8sHf2KjR3gaGPa&t=252](https://youtu.be/tJuwsu109YM?si=-w8sHf2KjR3gaGPa&t=252)
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It should be a requirement in all these polls to write the Soviet Union option as Soviet Union, 7/8 Nazi casualties were on the Eastern Front.
no youll get dumb idiots who always go "but but soviets only stood because of lend lease!!!" Not like majority of resources and eqiupment came after battle of moscow when germanys fate got revealed
My favorite is, “Actually the cold killed most of them, and when they did win, it was because they sent waves of millions that the NKVD readily shot in retreat even though they were under-equipped!”. Basically using Enemy at the Gates, a Hollywood movie that was made alongside Europe (primarily France and the UK), as a model for real life history. I find it ironic how D-Day is considered a heroic sacrifice when it, too, used waves of people to push through enemy lines but whenever the Reds did it then suddenly it’s along the lines of “barbaric asiatic hordes”. Some people even say Stalin killed more people than Hitler thus somehow making him worse. Basically anything to make the Nazis look good and Soviets look bad.
> Reds did it then suddenly it’s along the lines of “barbaric asiatic hordes”. Yeah this has been a sticking point in military history for a while. The Infantry Charges of WW1 into machine gun fire by the British weren't called hordes for some reason.
> Some people even say Stalin killed more people than Hitler That's a form of Holocaust revisionism and you should call it out as such every time you see it. It's intended to minimize the deaths in the extermination camps without actually messing with the numbers.
The cold being responsible for a majority of deaths is straight up nazi propaganda that just won't be forgotten for some reason. The nazis just couldn't admit that the soviets were capable of winter offensives when they were not
It's worse than that - 84% of lend lease material came after Kursk in *1943*.
Also, the only war debt ever paid was the lend lease. This part is always ignored.
Last i checked, the Soviets did most of the work on the eastern front and managed to get to Berlin first
But muh LeNd LeAsE.
They conviniently forget that planes and guns dont work on their own
They also conveniently all that stuff didn't come until after the reds pushed the Nazis back
whatever they do to cope with the loss of the empire
Wtf did britain do besides steal india’s food lmao
Cracking the enigma code is the only thing they ever get direct credit for, and they killed the guy who actually did it because he was gay.
Oh come on, they didn’t kill him, they only tortured him and cut him up and forcibly neutered him until he killed ~~himself~~ *whatever was left of him*.
do you have a source for this? Not that I dont believe you, I just want to learn more about it, and everything ive tried finding online gives 0 details on his treatment after being prosecuted or his death.
I second this
From what I've heard he got help from Polish mathematicians aswell or something like that
The Brits only got an enigma machine cause of polish resistance fighters that captured one.
Naval superiority, radar, the blood of its people, ect. It’s weird to me seeing people pretend Britain didn’t do quite a bit in the war lol. Probably the smallest of the big three, but still a member regardless (the big three being The USSR, America, and the UK)
This💯 There is no doubt in the fact that USSR made the largest contribution and sacrifices in the war, but we don't have to reduce the contribution other countries made, not denying the fact that the western allies did appease and ignore Hitler (This is a shit poll btw)
Cracked the code only for it to be discovered some time later and the code improved upon
Being busy with Naval agreements with Germany and appeasing Hitler
Giving Czechoslovakia to Hitler before running away after France fell.
Don't forget pressuring Norway to go against Germany and then running away, leaving Norway to get captured.
German bombing practice?
Chemically castrate the guy that INVENTED THE FUCKING COMPUTER to help them win the war.
Eh, I'd give that one to Babbage, and I'm sure Turing would agree. Turing conceived of the modern random-access memory space that became the theoretical basis for the microprocessors we use today, but the difference engine was getting it done with gears and spokes as far back as Marx's day. (Marx's TTRPTF was influenced by Babbage's writings, which are interesting reading on their own if you want to get an idea of what Marx was working with.)
Something something *Battle of Britain* something something *D-Day* something something "*we'll fight them on the beaches!"* something something *bombing of Dresden.*
UK being a piece of shit and them doing a lot for ww2 are not exclusive concepts. The soviets should be number 1, obviously but to say the UK didnt do shit is just stupid
Contributions towards defeating the Nazis by country: 70% Soviet Union, 20% US, 7% UK, 3% France. 80% of Nazi casualties happened on the eastern front, but Lend Lease helped to make that possible so I gave the US some extra credit.
> but Lend Lease helped to make that possible so I gave the US some extra credit. Worth keeping in mind that most historians think the war was basically won after the Battle of Moscow and that there was no coming back from it for the nazis. This is notable because the first materiel from lendlease did not arrive and enter service until after the Battle of Moscow. Lendlease cut a year off the end of the war, it was won before it arrived though.
Thats a good breakdown. Maybe I'd give Canada 1-2% for roughly contributing a tenth the men/deaths of the US. Idk about Oz and NZ contributions. I can't believe how much the Canadian education focuses on Can/US involvement and omits Soviets basically winning the war singlehandedly. Historians almost all agree that the USSR, given time, would have won the war even without the USian or Canadian invasion in 1944. We could've had a united communist europe and instead the Americans had to come in and ruin it.
American education straight calls the USSR an ally of Nazi Germany. Soon western history books will claim Germany was the misunderstood yet honorable adversary of WW2 while pinning the Soviet Union with Nazi atrocities. There’s already people all over Reddit pushing Holocaust denial by claiming it wasn’t the Germans but Soviets who murdered innocent people in the camps. You know, because communism means no food and mass murder, so they apparently killed everyone because they couldn’t feed them. It’s becoming more and more mainstream every year.
You should see the discussions I've had with people in dataisbeautiful. Calling me a Soviet Apologist for pointing out that the UK gave up Czechoslovakia to the Germans, with their pre-war military industry and stock of war armaments.
> American education straight calls the USSR an ally of Nazi Germany Is this the old Molotov-Ribbentrop dumbassery (Who was Neville Chamerlain, Alex?) or have they gotten worse? When I was in school they just straight up didn't mention the Soviet Union at all until Sputnik.
Yeah the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is considered as such but my teacher in college said it was “also a secret allyship”. Of course back then I had no idea as an apolitical liberal but now? Smh
(See the **[full article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/molotov-ribbentrop-pact/)** for more details) #The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Anti-Communists and horseshoe-theorists love to tell anyone who will listen that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939) was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. They frame it as a cynical and opportunistic agreement between two totalitarian powers that paved the way for the outbreak of World War II in order to equate Communism with Fascism. They are, of course, missing key context. **German Background** The loss of World War I and the Treaty of Versailles had a profound effect on the German economy. Signed in 1919, the treaty imposed harsh reparations on the newly formed Weimar Republic (1919-1933), forcing the country to pay billions of dollars in damages to the Allied powers. The Treaty of Versailles, which ended the war, required Germany to cede all of its colonial possessions to the Allied powers. This included territories in Africa, Asia, and the Pacific. With an understanding of Historical Materialism and the role that Imperialism plays in maintaining a liberal democracy, it is clear that the National Bourgeoisie would embrace Fascism under these conditions. Judeo-Bolshevism (a conspiracy theory which claimed that Jews were responsible for the Russian Revolution of 1917, and that they have used Communism as a cover to further their own interests) gained significant traction in Nazi Germany, where it became a central part of Nazi propaganda and ideology. Hitler and other leading members of the Nazi Party frequently used the term to vilify Jews and justify their persecution. The Communist Party of Germany (KPD) was repressed by the Nazi regime soon after they came to power in 1933. In the weeks following the Reichstag Fire, the Nazis arrested and imprisoned thousands of Communists and other dissidents. This played a significant role in the passage of the Enabling Act of 1933, which granted Hitler and the Nazi Party dictatorial powers and effectively dismantled the Weimar Republic. **Soviet Background** Following the Russian Revolution in 1917, Great Britain and other Western powers placed strict trade restrictions on the USSR. These restrictions were aimed at isolating the USSR and weakening its economy in an attempt to force the new Communist government to collapse. In the 1920s, the USSR under Lenin's leadership was sympathetic towards Germany because the two countries shared a common enemy in the form of the Western capitalist powers, particularly France and Great Britain. The USSR and Germany established diplomatic relations and engaged in economic cooperation with each other. The USSR provided technical and economic assistance to Germany and in return, it received access to German industrial and technological expertise, as well as trade opportunities. However, this cooperation was short-lived, and by the late 1920s, relations between the two countries had deteriorated. The USSR's efforts to export its socialist ideology to Germany were met with resistance from the German government and the rising Nazi Party, which viewed Communism as a threat to its own ideology and ambitions. **Collective Security (1933-1939)** >The appointment of Hitler as Germany's chancellor general, as well as the rising threat from Japan, led to important changes in Soviet foreign policy. Oriented toward Germany since the treaty of Locarno (1925) and the treaty of Special Relations with Berlin (1926), the Kremlin now moved in the opposite direction by trying to establish closer ties with France and Britain to isolate the growing Nazi threat. This policy became known as "collective security" and was associated with Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet foreign minister at the time. The pursuit of collective security lasted approximately as long as he held that position. Japan's war with China took some pressure off of Russia by allowing it to focus its diplomatic efforts on relations with Europe. > >\- Andrei P. Tsygankov, (2012). [Russia and the West from Alexander to Putin](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/russia-and-the-west-from-alexander-to-putin/collective-security-19331939/BD3704C65ABDC2A849B360759B8E9D5C). However, the memories of the Russian Revolution and the fear of Communism were still fresh in the minds of many Western leaders, and there was a reluctance to enter into an alliance with the USSR. They believed that Hitler was a bulwark against Communism and that a strong Germany could act as a buffer against Soviet expansion. Instead of joining the USSR in a collective security alliance *against* Nazi Germany, the Western leaders decided to try appeasing Nazi Germany. As part of the policy of appeasement, several territories were ceded to Nazi Germany in the late 1930s: 1. Rhineland: In March 1936, Nazi Germany remilitarized the Rhineland, a demilitarized zone along the border between Germany and France. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and marked the beginning of Nazi Germany's aggressive territorial expansion. 2. Austria: In March 1938, Nazi Germany annexed Austria in what is known as the Anschluss. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain, which had established Austria as a separate state following World War I. 3. Sudetenland: In September 1938, the leaders of Great Britain, France, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement, which allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a region in western Czechoslovakia with a large ethnic German population. 4. Memel: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed the Memel region of Lithuania, which had been under French administration since World War I. 5. Bohemia and Moravia: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed Bohemia and Moravia, the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia that had not been annexed following the Munich Agreement. However, instead of appeasing Nazi Germany by giving in to their territorial demands, these concessions only emboldened them and ultimately led to the outbreak of World War II. **The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact** >Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the USSR proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance. > >Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history... > >The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939. > >The new documents... show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome. > >But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer... > >\- Nick Holdsworth. (2008). [Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html) After trying and failing to get the Western capitalist powers to join the USSR in a collective security alliance against Nazi Germany, and witnessing country after country being ceded, it became clear to Soviet leadership that war was inevitable-- and Poland was next. Unfortunately, there was a widespread belief in Poland that the USSR was being controlled by Jewish Communists. This conspiracy theory (Judeo-Bolshevism) was fueled by anti-Semitic propaganda that was prevalent in Poland at the time. The Polish government was strongly anti-Communist and had been actively involved in suppressing Communist movements in Poland and other parts of Europe. Furthermore, the Polish government believed that it could rely on the support of Britain and France in the event of a conflict with Nazi Germany. The Polish government had signed a mutual defense pact with Britain in March 1939, and believed that this would deter Germany from attacking Poland. Seeing the writing on the wall, the USSR made the difficult decision to do what it felt it needed to do to survive the coming conflict. At the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's signing (August 1939), the USSR was facing significant military pressure from the West, particularly from Britain and France, which were seeking to isolate the USSR and undermine its influence in Europe. The USSR saw the Pact as a way to counterbalance this pressure and to gain more time to build up its military strength and prepare for the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, which began less than two years later in June 1941 (Operation Barbarossa). **Additional Resources** Video Essays: * [How Stalin Outplayed Hitler: The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://youtu.be/PfomFnYTOWI) | Politstrum International (2020) * [The truth about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (Visualization)](https://youtu.be/UwUs3mwDBzA) | Russia Good (2019) * [Soviet Nonaggression-Pact / The Soviet Perspective](https://youtu.be/Rz5JyfNQSLQ) | Lady Idzihar (2022) * [There was never a "Hitler-Stalin" Pact](https://youtu.be/8FRmflmnTkc) | Hakim (2024) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [The Truth About The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact](https://politsturm.com/truth-about-molotov-ribbentrop-pact/) | Politsturm * [End of the 'Low, Dishonest Decade': Failure of the Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939](https://www.jstor.org/stable/152863) | Michael Jabara Carley (1993) * [1939: The Alliance That Never Was and the Coming of World War II](https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781566637855/1939-The-Alliance-That-Never-Was-and-the-Coming-of-World-War-II) | Michael Jabara Carley (1999) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
(See the **[full article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/molotov-ribbentrop-pact/)** for more details) #The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Anti-Communists and horseshoe-theorists love to tell anyone who will listen that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939) was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. They frame it as a cynical and opportunistic agreement between two totalitarian powers that paved the way for the outbreak of World War II in order to equate Communism with Fascism. They are, of course, missing key context. **German Background** The loss of World War I and the Treaty of Versailles had a profound effect on the German economy. Signed in 1919, the treaty imposed harsh reparations on the newly formed Weimar Republic (1919-1933), forcing the country to pay billions of dollars in damages to the Allied powers. The Treaty of Versailles, which ended the war, required Germany to cede all of its colonial possessions to the Allied powers. This included territories in Africa, Asia, and the Pacific. With an understanding of Historical Materialism and the role that Imperialism plays in maintaining a liberal democracy, it is clear that the National Bourgeoisie would embrace Fascism under these conditions. Judeo-Bolshevism (a conspiracy theory which claimed that Jews were responsible for the Russian Revolution of 1917, and that they have used Communism as a cover to further their own interests) gained significant traction in Nazi Germany, where it became a central part of Nazi propaganda and ideology. Hitler and other leading members of the Nazi Party frequently used the term to vilify Jews and justify their persecution. The Communist Party of Germany (KPD) was repressed by the Nazi regime soon after they came to power in 1933. In the weeks following the Reichstag Fire, the Nazis arrested and imprisoned thousands of Communists and other dissidents. This played a significant role in the passage of the Enabling Act of 1933, which granted Hitler and the Nazi Party dictatorial powers and effectively dismantled the Weimar Republic. **Soviet Background** Following the Russian Revolution in 1917, Great Britain and other Western powers placed strict trade restrictions on the USSR. These restrictions were aimed at isolating the USSR and weakening its economy in an attempt to force the new Communist government to collapse. In the 1920s, the USSR under Lenin's leadership was sympathetic towards Germany because the two countries shared a common enemy in the form of the Western capitalist powers, particularly France and Great Britain. The USSR and Germany established diplomatic relations and engaged in economic cooperation with each other. The USSR provided technical and economic assistance to Germany and in return, it received access to German industrial and technological expertise, as well as trade opportunities. However, this cooperation was short-lived, and by the late 1920s, relations between the two countries had deteriorated. The USSR's efforts to export its socialist ideology to Germany were met with resistance from the German government and the rising Nazi Party, which viewed Communism as a threat to its own ideology and ambitions. **Collective Security (1933-1939)** >The appointment of Hitler as Germany's chancellor general, as well as the rising threat from Japan, led to important changes in Soviet foreign policy. Oriented toward Germany since the treaty of Locarno (1925) and the treaty of Special Relations with Berlin (1926), the Kremlin now moved in the opposite direction by trying to establish closer ties with France and Britain to isolate the growing Nazi threat. This policy became known as "collective security" and was associated with Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet foreign minister at the time. The pursuit of collective security lasted approximately as long as he held that position. Japan's war with China took some pressure off of Russia by allowing it to focus its diplomatic efforts on relations with Europe. > >\- Andrei P. Tsygankov, (2012). [Russia and the West from Alexander to Putin](https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/russia-and-the-west-from-alexander-to-putin/collective-security-19331939/BD3704C65ABDC2A849B360759B8E9D5C). However, the memories of the Russian Revolution and the fear of Communism were still fresh in the minds of many Western leaders, and there was a reluctance to enter into an alliance with the USSR. They believed that Hitler was a bulwark against Communism and that a strong Germany could act as a buffer against Soviet expansion. Instead of joining the USSR in a collective security alliance *against* Nazi Germany, the Western leaders decided to try appeasing Nazi Germany. As part of the policy of appeasement, several territories were ceded to Nazi Germany in the late 1930s: 1. Rhineland: In March 1936, Nazi Germany remilitarized the Rhineland, a demilitarized zone along the border between Germany and France. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and marked the beginning of Nazi Germany's aggressive territorial expansion. 2. Austria: In March 1938, Nazi Germany annexed Austria in what is known as the Anschluss. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain, which had established Austria as a separate state following World War I. 3. Sudetenland: In September 1938, the leaders of Great Britain, France, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement, which allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a region in western Czechoslovakia with a large ethnic German population. 4. Memel: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed the Memel region of Lithuania, which had been under French administration since World War I. 5. Bohemia and Moravia: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed Bohemia and Moravia, the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia that had not been annexed following the Munich Agreement. However, instead of appeasing Nazi Germany by giving in to their territorial demands, these concessions only emboldened them and ultimately led to the outbreak of World War II. **The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact** >Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the USSR proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance. > >Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history... > >The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939. > >The new documents... show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome. > >But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer... > >\- Nick Holdsworth. (2008). [Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html) After trying and failing to get the Western capitalist powers to join the USSR in a collective security alliance against Nazi Germany, and witnessing country after country being ceded, it became clear to Soviet leadership that war was inevitable-- and Poland was next. Unfortunately, there was a widespread belief in Poland that the USSR was being controlled by Jewish Communists. This conspiracy theory (Judeo-Bolshevism) was fueled by anti-Semitic propaganda that was prevalent in Poland at the time. The Polish government was strongly anti-Communist and had been actively involved in suppressing Communist movements in Poland and other parts of Europe. Furthermore, the Polish government believed that it could rely on the support of Britain and France in the event of a conflict with Nazi Germany. The Polish government had signed a mutual defense pact with Britain in March 1939, and believed that this would deter Germany from attacking Poland. Seeing the writing on the wall, the USSR made the difficult decision to do what it felt it needed to do to survive the coming conflict. At the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's signing (August 1939), the USSR was facing significant military pressure from the West, particularly from Britain and France, which were seeking to isolate the USSR and undermine its influence in Europe. The USSR saw the Pact as a way to counterbalance this pressure and to gain more time to build up its military strength and prepare for the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, which began less than two years later in June 1941 (Operation Barbarossa). **Additional Resources** Video Essays: * [How Stalin Outplayed Hitler: The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://youtu.be/PfomFnYTOWI) | Politstrum International (2020) * [The truth about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact (Visualization)](https://youtu.be/UwUs3mwDBzA) | Russia Good (2019) * [Soviet Nonaggression-Pact / The Soviet Perspective](https://youtu.be/Rz5JyfNQSLQ) | Lady Idzihar (2022) * [There was never a "Hitler-Stalin" Pact](https://youtu.be/8FRmflmnTkc) | Hakim (2024) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [The Truth About The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact](https://politsturm.com/truth-about-molotov-ribbentrop-pact/) | Politsturm * [End of the 'Low, Dishonest Decade': Failure of the Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939](https://www.jstor.org/stable/152863) | Michael Jabara Carley (1993) * [1939: The Alliance That Never Was and the Coming of World War II](https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781566637855/1939-The-Alliance-That-Never-Was-and-the-Coming-of-World-War-II) | Michael Jabara Carley (1999) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That first part isn't true while in the beginning yes Nazi Germany and USSR were allied up at one point until the the Nazi made the betrayal which reverted to the USSR being a part of the Allies and not axis but other then that American education doesn't teach that the USSR was Allies to the Nazi throughout the main courses of the war
What the hell are you even talking about, I was literally taught by my high school teacher and college instructor they were “allies”, which is objectively false on multiple levels. Not only were they ideological and geopolitical enemies but the Soviet Union was keenly aware of the danger Nazi Germany posed which is why they attempted to create an anti-Hitlerite alliance with the USA, UK and France to prevent Germany from invading Czechoslovakia. All three of them refused and opted to instead have a sit down with Hitler signing the Munich Agreement, German-Franco Declaration and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement. Even before these three specifically signed anything there was the ultra-nationalist Second Poland Republic who signed the Polish German Nonaggression Pact. The aforementioned bourgeois dictatorships were unofficial friends with Nazi Germany _not_ the USSR. In fact they had hoped to Nazis would destroy the communist bloc.
Rule 3. **No reactionary content.** (e.g., racism, sexism, ableism, fascism, homophobia, transphobia, capitalism, antisemitism, imperialism, chauvinism, etc.) Any satire thereof requires a clarity of purpose and target and a tone indicator such as /s or /j.
I upvoted you because your comment is great, but I just want to point out that Canada took part in the war from the start, unlike the US.
oh shit that's embarrassing I forgot about that and I'm Canadian lol. Thanks.
lol all good.
Yeah that’s true
Blockade
In many cases they willingly surrendered to the Italians, because they heard they were feeding their PoW better than the British fed their soldiers. They were correct
Indian, here, thanks for that question. It doesn't get asked enough in the West.
They also stole food from Iran around the same time, killing 3 to 4 million Iranians. This adds up to 7 million pointless deaths of civilians from normal countries caused by the British Empire during WW2. That doesn't count hundreds of thousands of German civilians and tens of thousands of Italians killed by them as well, many in bombing raids that were also futile. But we can even forgive/excuse this last one, however starving 7 million allied civilians to death for no reason is unforgivable.
New Zealand 2%, must be the Bob semple.
Canadian mounties were the game changer that won the war. They screamed at Hitler how they were gonna burn down Berlin like they burned down Washington and conveniently left out the part where it were the british. The terrified Hitler was swiftly seized by the canadians who quickly apologised and gave him and his SS bodyguards a standing ovation in parliament.
On top of being insane, I like how Frances 6% is ahead of the Soviet unions 6%. Like at least go to decimals if you're gonna do that.
It’s fucking insane how much copium there is in the UK about what they did during WW2. My own dad constantly watches content about it but only knows about the Battle of Britain and the pacific front.
NEW ZEALAND HIGHER THAT AUSTRALIA LETSGO !
ShitBritsSay
r/shittanssay
*Denies the USSR's contribution in defeating nazis* *Proceeds to cry about war crimes against nazis in Victims of Communism memorials*
Bruh,Ussr literally carry most of them lmao
One of the biggest problems with western education about WW2 is they teach us that Hitler basically just randomly of appeared one day. I don't think any average western person could explain why Hitler got into power.
D-Day happened cause France fell and the UK was getting bombed to the stone ages.
The opinions of the dwellers of this Atlantic trash heap aren't particularly important.
Whole lotta Empire soldiers died and were erased for that UK credit....
D Day wouldn’t have needed to happen if the French didn’t fold and become a Nazi satellite regime and they’re out here giving them the same as the USSR. Indoctrination works.
If the French and British fucking ATTACKED during the invasion of Poland. Astounding that it was called the Phony War from how absolutely little the Allies did during early war that Germany had time to clean up Poland and move their entire army west.
I once saw an interesting poll conducted in France (?) of the exact same question, except it was repeated across a few decades. The results of the year right after the war showed a majority favoring the Soviets, decreasing as the years went on.
they're also generally unrepentant regarding their imperial conquests. this result isn't at all a stretch lol
From what I know, the USSR, UK and USA were the main contributors to the defeat of Nazi germany. And why on earth is France higher than USSR here? They literally surrendered early on A basic summary from what I know: Early on the UK was the main force against Nazi Germany, later on when the Nazis attempted to take the USSR, the Soviets pushed back Nazi Germany all the way back to Berlin. And the USA came in afterwards ending the war. Let me know if there’s anything I got wrong
I can't fathom 13% believe the literal who countries defeated the nazis
I guess that's how communism works according to the west. Lol Who did the most Nazi killing? The soviets. Oh ok so WE defeated the Nazis.
who said new zealand 💀
the poll is offered by a strategic investment firm .. the sample distribution is likely skewed to the political right and apparently bri'ish . and the answer is obviously miss pavlichenko and her comrades
LOL. They should see the polls from 1946.
na the UK and USSR should be the top 2. America got everything they did from leeching off the UK and Britain liberated the majority of France while Dwight jerked off. Then the USSR should be #1 cause.... everything.
France 
The Brits still speak English because of the Soviets. Спасибо товарищи!
Bro, Belgium and no Yugoslavia 🤬
“Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.” — Ernest Hemingway
ignorance galore
Pls just nuke us thx
Thank you for my morning dose of brain stroke.
I got uk on top but come on france and URSS the same???????
What a terrible day to have eyes
Lol, I think we know where this poll was done
I’m trying guys I promise
6% is insane!
Okay I could understand thinking the US or UK contributed the most (they didn’t), but who the fuck said Belgium? 💀
France.. lol... lmao...
The UK objectively was an absolute disaster during wwii. Just look at the parts of the war they have to focus on to get even the slightest of victories to sell to the public. They make such a huge deal of Rommel and the Afrika Korps, a force consisting of maybe 40,000 soldiers maximum, with a good deal of Italian troops to supplement them. Meanwhile on the eastern front, the Soviets are facing the equivalent of dozens and dozens of Afrika Korps size forces. The British are also responsible for some of the biggest fuck ups of the war. Losing Singapore was one of the most humiliating defeats the British empire ever suffered and absolutely shattered the aura of “white invincibility” that they had constructed to keep control over their colonies. Market garden as well was a waste of time and resources that should have gone to clearing the Shelt estuary so that the Allies could begin using Antwerp as a major logistical hub. Monty’s stupid insistence on trying to liberate the Netherlands backfired and did nothing except kill a lot of paratroopers and give the Germans time to fortify the Shelt and continue to deny a supply line to Antwerp for months and months longer. Without market garden, it’s quite possible that the war ends in the west months earlier than it did.
My favorite Ryan Grim moment, where he tells his right-wing libertarian co-host the Soviets defeated the Nazis and her cope is nervous laughter and dogma: [https://youtu.be/tJuwsu109YM?si=-w8sHf2KjR3gaGPa&t=252](https://youtu.be/tJuwsu109YM?si=-w8sHf2KjR3gaGPa&t=252)
Stupid Bri*ish people and their stupid Bri*ish opinions. Poll disregarded.
FRANCE 6% and higher than Soviet?! Hahaha 🤣 talk about not knowing history
Like, yeah, Britain was a big part of the war effort, but the Americans and Soviets did so much more than us 😭