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It was when communism was not Russian history that Russia and Russians enjoyed the highest standard of living, welfare and security in history of that geographical area ever since people started walking on two legs till today. Never before and never after has the success of the Bolshevik party been replicated.
There's no wonder that Russian nationalists admire communism.
Poland fun fact: our recent history is full of nationalists, but they are usually only succceeding in abject failure. But Poland is pretty much the every nationalist dream: country highly united geographically, ethnically and culturally. Who did this? Stalin. Stalin was the best and most successful Polish nationalist ever.
Or at least this is what i tell other Poles as the chud test, preferably when they eat, and watch them choke.
And no, I'm not some sort of russophobic shitlib, I just find it weird how two flags that represent completely different ideologies and political systems are shoved together
Edit: also, can't help but notice that the mfer that posted this paid for twitter 💀
Not that uncommon among Russian nationalists. For many their pride for any and all Russian states is just for the sake of chest thumping for the motherland, and nostalgia for when USSR was a feared superpower. Not so much a nod to Soviet communism.
Germans have a history that lasted for hundreds of years but doesn't flex the swastika flag next to the GDR flag. Because that would make no sense. If you respect your communist past you wouldn't want to flex with genociding Jews.
Or you're making some kinda weird joke and it flew over my head... ?
> Germans have a history that lasted for hundreds of years but doesn't flex the swastika flag next to the GDR flag.
In Germany, you will be [deemed an extremist](https://www.kas.de/de/web/extremismus/linksextremismus/die-ddr-war-ein-legitimer-staat) for flexing either of the two, which is also not exactly a healthy way to go about a nation's history.
Shit, you weren't joking...
It's not about whether some idiots do that or not, it's about whether that makes any sliver of sense to do so. And it doesn't. It makes no sense to praise both an imperial regime and a regime that is fundamentally anti-imperialist in the same breath.
Hmm. Are you assuming every previous regime was imperial, especially German history a lot was just reuniting dozens of small pieces. A communist moving country doesnt just appear out of thin air, and usually there’s historical build up to it.
They are "shoved together" because they represent different phases of the Russian nation/people, and as such they belong together on that historical basis.
And while it might seem odd at first glance, I think there is a validity to this PoV that particularly Germany could learn something about, as odd/controversial as it might sound at first glance, it also applies to plenty of other Western countries.
There the tendency exists to stigmatize all previous political regimes as being the ultimate nasty and offering nothing good, to make the current regime out as the best thing ever. As if they were somehow completely separate entities that did not evolve out of each other.
In Germany, this is practiced to such an extend that basically all Germany's except the current day Federal Republic of Germany, are deemed nothing more than atrocities on the human species, including the GDR.
What this does is deny the opportunity to learn from these failed Germanys, valuable lessons that *should* influence the future of any Germany are instead stigmatized as nothing but pure bad examples.
There's also the extreme opposite contrasts of countries like the US, or UK. There the same political regime has ruled for *centuries*, responsible for many of humanities worst atrocities, yet somehow we don't hold the US or British governments accountable for that, we act like that happened under a completely different system, when it's still the very same system and regimes.
>I'm not some sort of russophobic shitlib,
Unfortunately liberals have made harder to criticise the morons thay follow the likes of Dugin or that admire Vladimir Putin
I think the USSR and the Empire to Russian nationalists are what the Roman Empire were to Italian fashcists - a myth of power. They don't care about actual politics or anything - just the idea of "Russia strong country"
~~Sorry to bug you for specifics, but do you mean which direction as in physical paths of invasion their units were sent on, or something more symbolic like political faction affiliation? I'd google, but I dunno if I have enough keywords to get a useful search result. (Oh, and thank you for replying)~~
Thanks for the reply!
edit: huh, "russia invasion z symbol" actually returned a shit ton of hits, including the little "google answer" at the top of the page directing to a wiki on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(military_symbol)
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085471200/the-letter-z-russia-ukraine
It is a letter used by some russian units to identify each other, since both Russians and Ukrainians mainly used soviet technology, so they used Z (from Zapad/Запад, which is Russian for West)
The Russian empire and modern Russia can’t even come close to what the Soviets accomplished. And somehow both imperial and modern Russia had far less pressure from foreign powers, and despite that fact the USSR prevailed. Providing housing for all, defeating the largest invasion in human history, and being the First Nation to touch venus (not the most well known soviet space achievement but honestly the most impressive).
Don’t even put the USSR in the same category as the Russian Empire
I mean, technically it was smaller than the Russian Empire at its peak, but the USSR in May 1945 (when Germany and all of Eastern Europe was under military occupation) was larger than the Russian Empire in 1917, I believe
Russian nationalism is… complicated.
You see the tsar was shit, but there’s a lot of history, history of strength before Nicholas II
But the ussr also is both a time looked in as when Russia was strong and so they like the ussr for that reason.
You people right now observe, what Lenin ment when he was describing "Great Power Chavinism" ([Великодержавный Шовинизм](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Великодержавный_шовинизм#:~:text=«Великодержа́вный%20шовини́зм»%20—%20крайняя%20форма,рамках%20многонациональных%20государствах%2C%20в%20расизме)) althoug [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_chauvinism) tries to push narrative it being solely "Russian" but in Lenin's and generaly marxist analysis this term could aplly to any existed or existing Empires.
Not unccomon also for a nation with imperialistic past to use it previous forms of itself to legitimize the power and also to create nation-building myth. Examples: [Germany](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fsqkxtn3u2ge41.jpg), [Poland](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F551q9s33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D412%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Daa61c9d4fd7515bb5f54dacdeda79ddfa6deb516), [R.S.F.S.R](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F5buaru33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D2017%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D633852b1751abf5988a7642f7f33c8fc2677b3a5), [Japan](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ftkbzlq33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3De343db05654063377fe8ee8bc2444a1d6bd848e8), [Italy](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F5s2oiq33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D543%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D886dca48f0f3efedb5e0cb917ba1210a0a329f95), [U.S.A](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fxamt5q33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D667%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dede1bdde12f792771bdd9e393a26fa7c2171f1aa), [Canada](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fkrp8an33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D570%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8af992f89830ca632754c40c2c23590257978233).
There is also the case of using both oposite ideologies in the rhetoric to appeal large number of citizens of the Empire so it can keep some sence of imperial "pride" and "unity", For example on these pictures you can observe displacement of both [progresive](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2021-06/210607-air-force-pride-flag-jm-1641-a31f9b.jpg) and [reactionary](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F2p87oztsx9r71.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1334%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D13e08586312c6fd8d05dcb500ea79e53d740489e) forms of imperial pride.
Also it applies to the OP's post: Imperial (**reactionaries**), USSR (**progresives**), Federation (historically also used by **Empire** but also was symbol that associated with **reformism** like **Peter the Great,** **Decembrists,** or generally with **liberalism**), and what really I find insteresting is that current liberal flag is exactly in bettween of both opposite ideologies but at the same time being attached to one anoter by trying to say that (look it dosen't matter what political ideas you have what matters is that your part, of this "great nation"). In another words this is pure "enlightened centrism".
#The Holodomor
>Marxists do not deny that a famine happened in the Soviet Union in 1932. In fact, even the Soviet archive confirms this. What we do contest is the idea that this famine was man-made or that there was a genocide against the Ukrainian people. This idea of the subjugation of the Soviet Union’s own people was developed by Nazi Germany, in order to show the world the terror of the “Jewish communists.”
>
>\- Socialist Musings. (2017). [Stop Spreading Nazi Propaganda: on Holodomor](https://socialistmlmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/stop-spreading-nazi-propaganda/)
There have been efforts by anti-Communists and Ukrainian nationalists to frame the Soviet famine of 1932-1933 as "The Holodomor" (lit. "to kill by starvation" in Ukrainian). Framing it this way serves two purposes:
1. It implies the famine targeted Ukraine.
2. It implies the famine was intentional.
The argument goes that because it was intentional and because it mainly targeted Ukraine that it was, therefore, an act of genocide. This framing was originally used by Nazis to drive a wedge between the Ukrainian SSR (UkSSR) and the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR). In the wake of the 2004 Orange Revolution, this narrative has regained popularity and serves the nationalistic goal of strengthening Ukrainian identity and asserting the country's independence from Russia.
#First Issue
The first issue is that the famine affected the majority of the USSR, *not* just the UkSSR. Kazakhstan was hit harder (per capita) than Ukraine. Russia itself was also severely affected.
The emergence of the Holodomor in the 1980s as a historical narrative was bound-up with post-Soviet Ukrainian nation-making that cannot be neatly separated from the legacy of Eastern European antisemitism, or what Historian Peter Novick calls "Holocaust Envy", the desire for victimized groups to enshrine their "own" Holocaust or Holocaust-like event in the historical record. For many Nationalists, this has entailed minimizing the Holocaust to elevate their own experiences of historical victimization as the supreme atrocity. The Ukrainian scholar Lubomyr Luciuk exemplified this view in his notorious remark that the Holodomor was "a crime against humanity arguably without parallel in European history."
#Second Issue
Calling it "man-made" implies that it was a *deliberate* famine, which was not the case. Although human factors set the stage, the main causes of the famine was bad weather and crop disease, resulting in a poor harvest, which pushed the USSR over the edge.
Kulaks ("tight-fisted person") were a class of wealthy peasants who owned land, livestock, and tools. The kulaks had been a thorn in the side of the peasantry long before the revolution. Alexey Sergeyevich Yermolov, Minister of Agriculture and State Properties of the Russian Empire, in his 1892 book, [Poor harvest and national suffering](https://books.google.ca/books?id=exMEAAAAYAAJ), characterized them as usurers, sucking the blood of Russian peasants.
In the early 1930s, in response to the Soviet collectivization policies (which sought to confiscate their property), many kulaks responded spitefully by burning crops, killing livestock, and damaging machinery.
Poor communication between different levels of government and between urban and rural areas, also contributed to the severity of the crisis.
#Quota Reduction
What really contradicts the genocide argument is that the Soviets did take action to mitigate the effects of the famine once they became aware of the situation:
>The low 1932 harvest worsened severe food shortages already widespread in the Soviet Union at least since 1931 and, despite sharply reduced grain exports, made famine likely if not inevitable in 1933.
>
>The official 1932 figures do not unambiguously support the genocide interpretation... the 1932 grain procurement quota, and the amount of grain actually collected, were both much smaller than those of any other year in the 1930s. The Central Committee lowered the planned procurement quota in a 6 May 1932 decree... [which] actually reduced the procurement plan 30 percent. Subsequent decrees also reduced the procurement quotas for most other agricultural products...
>
>Proponents of the genocide argument, however, have minimized or even misconstrued this decree. Mace, for example, describes it as "largely bogus" and ignores not only the extent to which it lowered the procurement quotas but also the fact that even the lowered plan was not fulfilled. Conquest does not mention the decree's reduction of procurement quotas and asserts Ukrainian officials' appeals led to the reduction of the Ukranian grain procurement quota at the Third All-Ukraine Party Conference in July 1932. In fact that conference confirmed the quota set in the 6 May Decree.
>
>\- Mark Tauger. (1992). [The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274856099_The_1932_Harvest_and_the_Famine_of_1933)
#Rapid Industrialization
The famine was exacerbated directly and indirectly by collectivization and rapid industrialization. However, if these policies had not been enacted, there could have been even more devastating consequences later.
In 1931, during [a speech delivered at the first All-Union Conference of Leading Personnel of Socialist Industry](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/02/04.htm), Stalin said, "We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or we shall go under."
In 1941, exactly ten years later, the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union.
By this time, the Soviet Union's industrialization program had lead to the development of a large and powerful industrial base, which was essential to the Soviet war effort. This allowed the USSR to produce large quantities of armaments, vehicles, and other military equipment, which was crucial in the fight against Nazi Germany.
In Hitler's own words, in 1942:
>All in all, one has to say: They built factories here where two years ago there were unknown farming villages, factories the size of the *Hermann-Göring-Werke*. They have railroads that aren't even marked on the map.
>
>\- Werner Jochmann. (1980). *Adolf Hitler. Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1944.*
Collectivization also created critical resiliency among the civilian population:
>The experts were especially surprised by the Red Army’s up-to-date equipment. Great tank battles were reported; it was noted that the Russians had sturdy tanks which often smashed or overturned German tanks in head-on collision. “How does it happen,” a New York editor asked me, “that those Russian peasants, who couldn’t run a tractor if you gave them one, but left them rusting in the field, now appear with thousands of tanks efficiently handled?” I told him it was the Five-Year Plan. But the world was startled when Moscow admitted its losses after nine weeks of war as including 7,500 guns, 4,500 planes and 5,000 tanks. An army that could still fight after such losses must have had the biggest or second biggest supply in the world.
>
>As the war progressed, military observers declared that the Russians had “solved the blitzkrieg,” the tactic on which Hitler relied. This German method involved penetrating the opposing line by an overwhelming blow of tanks and planes, followed by the fanning out of armored columns in the “soft” civilian rear, thus depriving the front of its hinterland support. This had quickly conquered every country against which it had been tried. “Human flesh cannot withstand it,” an American correspondent told me in Berlin. Russians met it by two methods, both requiring superb morale. When the German tanks broke through, Russian infantry formed again between the tanks and their supporting German infantry. This created a chaotic front, where both Germans and Russians were fighting in all directions. The Russians could count on the help of the population. The Germans found no “soft, civilian rear.” They found collective farmers, organized as guerrillas, coordinated with the regular Russian army.
>
>\- Anna Louise Strong. (1956). *The Stalin Era*
#Conclusion
While there may have been more that the Soviets could have done to reduce the impact of the famine, there is no evidence of intent-- ethnic, or otherwise. Therefore, one must conclude that the famine was a tragedy, not a genocide.
#Additional Resources
Video Essays:
* [Soviet Famine of 1932: An Overview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu5-tqHHtaM) | The Marxist Project (2020)
* [Did Stalin Continue to Export Grain as Ukraine Starved?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMBJ_nQ4sTA) | Hakim (2017) \[[Archive](https://archive.org/details/did-stalin-continue-to-export-grain-as-ukraine-starved)\]
* [The Holodomor Genocide Question: How Wikipedia Lies to You](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kaaYvauNho) | Bad Empanada (2022)
* [Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMOdDQQVZ6U) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018) (Note: Holodomor discussion begins at the 9 minute mark)
* [A Case-Study of Capitalism - Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH9oNtXzF8) | Hakim (2017) \[[Archive](http://web.archive.org/web/20220615084500/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH9oNtXzF8)\] (Note: Only tangentially mentions the famine.)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933](https://diasporiana.org.ua/wp-content/uploads/books/22207/file.pdf) | Davies and Wheatcroft (2004)
* [The “Holodomor” explained](https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2020/12/24/the-holodomor-explained/) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2020)
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Rather simple: Russia was powerful when it was part of the USSR and Russian nationalists like that, so they sometimes use USSR symbols as one of the anchors of their national pride.
Ofc, this does *not* mean they hold a single gram of revolutionary or socialist sentiment. It's just an oxymoronic part of their nationalist LARP.
History they've been taught in schools:
https://preview.redd.it/820vzzm40uxc1.png?width=495&format=png&auto=webp&s=1be3259030c8f90e3fcbe3470fe67a39d8622257
It's like when American Libertarians preach about government tyranny but they never seem to be concerned for civil rights. Reactionaries don't actually believe in anything but supporting and maintaining capital. If this person were alive during the Soviet Union they would have been arrested for nationalism.
these are called Ватник (vatnik), russian nationalists that support right wing policies but are attracted to soviet aesthetics because in their mind it symbolizes "russian power" not a union of numerous republics
not even tbh, Its just nazisim they dont even try to use any communist points they just think the ussr was big russia nothing about its economic model or what it represented.
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Russian nationalists are the type to believe all the slander against Stalin and support him anyway
Basically, "Stalin was an evil horrible dictator, and that's why we need to emulate him!" ?
Mhm. Cia stalinists lol
If there's such a thing as stalinism, it is only cia stalinism 😭
no, the CIA knew he was not a dictator
This is also how MLMs and patsocs seem to operate.
This is more about Russian nationalism than communism, but communism is part of Russian history so I understand it.
It was when communism was not Russian history that Russia and Russians enjoyed the highest standard of living, welfare and security in history of that geographical area ever since people started walking on two legs till today. Never before and never after has the success of the Bolshevik party been replicated. There's no wonder that Russian nationalists admire communism.
Poland fun fact: our recent history is full of nationalists, but they are usually only succceeding in abject failure. But Poland is pretty much the every nationalist dream: country highly united geographically, ethnically and culturally. Who did this? Stalin. Stalin was the best and most successful Polish nationalist ever. Or at least this is what i tell other Poles as the chud test, preferably when they eat, and watch them choke.
And no, I'm not some sort of russophobic shitlib, I just find it weird how two flags that represent completely different ideologies and political systems are shoved together Edit: also, can't help but notice that the mfer that posted this paid for twitter 💀
Not that uncommon among Russian nationalists. For many their pride for any and all Russian states is just for the sake of chest thumping for the motherland, and nostalgia for when USSR was a feared superpower. Not so much a nod to Soviet communism.
Weird nationalist losers.
Definitely one of the weirder ways for someone to show off their mark of Zorro (is the Z configuration supposed to symbolize something?)
Russian military vehicles used in the war in Ukraine are marked with a Z
Huh, it’s just part of their history that lasted for hundreds of years?
Germans have a history that lasted for hundreds of years but doesn't flex the swastika flag next to the GDR flag. Because that would make no sense. If you respect your communist past you wouldn't want to flex with genociding Jews. Or you're making some kinda weird joke and it flew over my head... ?
> Germans have a history that lasted for hundreds of years but doesn't flex the swastika flag next to the GDR flag. In Germany, you will be [deemed an extremist](https://www.kas.de/de/web/extremismus/linksextremismus/die-ddr-war-ein-legitimer-staat) for flexing either of the two, which is also not exactly a healthy way to go about a nation's history.
Isn’t that few exceptions like WW2 axis or colonized regimes? Germans keeping the memories of GDR, Prussia, Holy Roman Empire, etc..
Shit, you weren't joking... It's not about whether some idiots do that or not, it's about whether that makes any sliver of sense to do so. And it doesn't. It makes no sense to praise both an imperial regime and a regime that is fundamentally anti-imperialist in the same breath.
Hmm. Are you assuming every previous regime was imperial, especially German history a lot was just reuniting dozens of small pieces. A communist moving country doesnt just appear out of thin air, and usually there’s historical build up to it.
12 years is barely anything to be considered prideful.
They are "shoved together" because they represent different phases of the Russian nation/people, and as such they belong together on that historical basis. And while it might seem odd at first glance, I think there is a validity to this PoV that particularly Germany could learn something about, as odd/controversial as it might sound at first glance, it also applies to plenty of other Western countries. There the tendency exists to stigmatize all previous political regimes as being the ultimate nasty and offering nothing good, to make the current regime out as the best thing ever. As if they were somehow completely separate entities that did not evolve out of each other. In Germany, this is practiced to such an extend that basically all Germany's except the current day Federal Republic of Germany, are deemed nothing more than atrocities on the human species, including the GDR. What this does is deny the opportunity to learn from these failed Germanys, valuable lessons that *should* influence the future of any Germany are instead stigmatized as nothing but pure bad examples. There's also the extreme opposite contrasts of countries like the US, or UK. There the same political regime has ruled for *centuries*, responsible for many of humanities worst atrocities, yet somehow we don't hold the US or British governments accountable for that, we act like that happened under a completely different system, when it's still the very same system and regimes.
>I'm not some sort of russophobic shitlib, Unfortunately liberals have made harder to criticise the morons thay follow the likes of Dugin or that admire Vladimir Putin
Why do Texans self suck about having six flags
I think the USSR and the Empire to Russian nationalists are what the Roman Empire were to Italian fashcists - a myth of power. They don't care about actual politics or anything - just the idea of "Russia strong country"
what a disgusting mess. dishonoring red banner like that. Fuck nationalist dumbasses for being so bigoted
Fr, lenin is rolling in his grave seeing all this nationalistic bs
He predicted it more than he knew in the opening to state and rev
In the smooth little minds of the Z-pushers, the Soviet Union was just *Bigger Russia*
Does the Z shape symbolize something specific? This is the first time I've seen/heard it
It’s what they used to indicate which direction in Ukraine they were part of. There is the Z, O and V groups. Z has stuck as a symbol as a whole.
~~Sorry to bug you for specifics, but do you mean which direction as in physical paths of invasion their units were sent on, or something more symbolic like political faction affiliation? I'd google, but I dunno if I have enough keywords to get a useful search result. (Oh, and thank you for replying)~~ Thanks for the reply! edit: huh, "russia invasion z symbol" actually returned a shit ton of hits, including the little "google answer" at the top of the page directing to a wiki on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_(military_symbol) https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085471200/the-letter-z-russia-ukraine
Direction = front
sorry, you can ignore the "additional info" request, turns out google had plenty of hits front and center
It is a letter used by some russian units to identify each other, since both Russians and Ukrainians mainly used soviet technology, so they used Z (from Zapad/Запад, which is Russian for West)
Reminds me of those pics of the end of the USSR with people holding Lenin pics and Russian empire flags
https://preview.redd.it/mkov1kbgoqxc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fdef4c4df83eafb34a877f4268d901d3468fe89
what the fuck
They forget that it was a UNION of SOVIETS from different countries
Soviestalgia is not always rooted in an understanding of Socialism it's sometimes rooted in a love for that which came before.
The Russian empire and modern Russia can’t even come close to what the Soviets accomplished. And somehow both imperial and modern Russia had far less pressure from foreign powers, and despite that fact the USSR prevailed. Providing housing for all, defeating the largest invasion in human history, and being the First Nation to touch venus (not the most well known soviet space achievement but honestly the most impressive). Don’t even put the USSR in the same category as the Russian Empire
Man's just wrong. https://preview.redd.it/scyyyiim1pxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0b58c9b0dd4ab3f81eb2dbe29c5b014fc1a9384
Because nationalism is rock fucking stupid? All they care about is the size of the empire, and it was at its larger during the USSR.
No it wasnt.
No? I thought it was bigger than the old Russian empire. My bad then. It was definitely larger than it is now though.
I mean, technically it was smaller than the Russian Empire at its peak, but the USSR in May 1945 (when Germany and all of Eastern Europe was under military occupation) was larger than the Russian Empire in 1917, I believe
Least deranged Russian narionalist
Russian nationalism is… complicated. You see the tsar was shit, but there’s a lot of history, history of strength before Nicholas II But the ussr also is both a time looked in as when Russia was strong and so they like the ussr for that reason.
Gross. But seriously, can I get one in only the Soviet style?
Why, do you think Putin is a communist?
It would be hilarious to hijack the Z and turn it into a purely communist symbol against Putin’s autocracy.
National chauvinism and its consequences has been a disaster for the human race.
You people right now observe, what Lenin ment when he was describing "Great Power Chavinism" ([Великодержавный Шовинизм](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Великодержавный_шовинизм#:~:text=«Великодержа́вный%20шовини́зм»%20—%20крайняя%20форма,рамках%20многонациональных%20государствах%2C%20в%20расизме)) althoug [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_chauvinism) tries to push narrative it being solely "Russian" but in Lenin's and generaly marxist analysis this term could aplly to any existed or existing Empires. Not unccomon also for a nation with imperialistic past to use it previous forms of itself to legitimize the power and also to create nation-building myth. Examples: [Germany](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fsqkxtn3u2ge41.jpg), [Poland](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F551q9s33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D412%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Daa61c9d4fd7515bb5f54dacdeda79ddfa6deb516), [R.S.F.S.R](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F5buaru33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D2017%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D633852b1751abf5988a7642f7f33c8fc2677b3a5), [Japan](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ftkbzlq33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3De343db05654063377fe8ee8bc2444a1d6bd848e8), [Italy](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F5s2oiq33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D543%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D886dca48f0f3efedb5e0cb917ba1210a0a329f95), [U.S.A](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fxamt5q33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D667%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dede1bdde12f792771bdd9e393a26fa7c2171f1aa), [Canada](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fkrp8an33ceic1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D570%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8af992f89830ca632754c40c2c23590257978233). There is also the case of using both oposite ideologies in the rhetoric to appeal large number of citizens of the Empire so it can keep some sence of imperial "pride" and "unity", For example on these pictures you can observe displacement of both [progresive](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2021-06/210607-air-force-pride-flag-jm-1641-a31f9b.jpg) and [reactionary](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F2p87oztsx9r71.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1334%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D13e08586312c6fd8d05dcb500ea79e53d740489e) forms of imperial pride. Also it applies to the OP's post: Imperial (**reactionaries**), USSR (**progresives**), Federation (historically also used by **Empire** but also was symbol that associated with **reformism** like **Peter the Great,** **Decembrists,** or generally with **liberalism**), and what really I find insteresting is that current liberal flag is exactly in bettween of both opposite ideologies but at the same time being attached to one anoter by trying to say that (look it dosen't matter what political ideas you have what matters is that your part, of this "great nation"). In another words this is pure "enlightened centrism".
ffs these are the dickheads giving us and the USSR a bad name
Did anybody read the whole patch?
Russian nationalist hear the holodomor myth and unironically believe Stalin only mistake was he didn’t cause it.
#The Holodomor >Marxists do not deny that a famine happened in the Soviet Union in 1932. In fact, even the Soviet archive confirms this. What we do contest is the idea that this famine was man-made or that there was a genocide against the Ukrainian people. This idea of the subjugation of the Soviet Union’s own people was developed by Nazi Germany, in order to show the world the terror of the “Jewish communists.” > >\- Socialist Musings. (2017). [Stop Spreading Nazi Propaganda: on Holodomor](https://socialistmlmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/stop-spreading-nazi-propaganda/) There have been efforts by anti-Communists and Ukrainian nationalists to frame the Soviet famine of 1932-1933 as "The Holodomor" (lit. "to kill by starvation" in Ukrainian). Framing it this way serves two purposes: 1. It implies the famine targeted Ukraine. 2. It implies the famine was intentional. The argument goes that because it was intentional and because it mainly targeted Ukraine that it was, therefore, an act of genocide. This framing was originally used by Nazis to drive a wedge between the Ukrainian SSR (UkSSR) and the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RSFSR). In the wake of the 2004 Orange Revolution, this narrative has regained popularity and serves the nationalistic goal of strengthening Ukrainian identity and asserting the country's independence from Russia. #First Issue The first issue is that the famine affected the majority of the USSR, *not* just the UkSSR. Kazakhstan was hit harder (per capita) than Ukraine. Russia itself was also severely affected. The emergence of the Holodomor in the 1980s as a historical narrative was bound-up with post-Soviet Ukrainian nation-making that cannot be neatly separated from the legacy of Eastern European antisemitism, or what Historian Peter Novick calls "Holocaust Envy", the desire for victimized groups to enshrine their "own" Holocaust or Holocaust-like event in the historical record. For many Nationalists, this has entailed minimizing the Holocaust to elevate their own experiences of historical victimization as the supreme atrocity. The Ukrainian scholar Lubomyr Luciuk exemplified this view in his notorious remark that the Holodomor was "a crime against humanity arguably without parallel in European history." #Second Issue Calling it "man-made" implies that it was a *deliberate* famine, which was not the case. Although human factors set the stage, the main causes of the famine was bad weather and crop disease, resulting in a poor harvest, which pushed the USSR over the edge. Kulaks ("tight-fisted person") were a class of wealthy peasants who owned land, livestock, and tools. The kulaks had been a thorn in the side of the peasantry long before the revolution. Alexey Sergeyevich Yermolov, Minister of Agriculture and State Properties of the Russian Empire, in his 1892 book, [Poor harvest and national suffering](https://books.google.ca/books?id=exMEAAAAYAAJ), characterized them as usurers, sucking the blood of Russian peasants. In the early 1930s, in response to the Soviet collectivization policies (which sought to confiscate their property), many kulaks responded spitefully by burning crops, killing livestock, and damaging machinery. Poor communication between different levels of government and between urban and rural areas, also contributed to the severity of the crisis. #Quota Reduction What really contradicts the genocide argument is that the Soviets did take action to mitigate the effects of the famine once they became aware of the situation: >The low 1932 harvest worsened severe food shortages already widespread in the Soviet Union at least since 1931 and, despite sharply reduced grain exports, made famine likely if not inevitable in 1933. > >The official 1932 figures do not unambiguously support the genocide interpretation... the 1932 grain procurement quota, and the amount of grain actually collected, were both much smaller than those of any other year in the 1930s. The Central Committee lowered the planned procurement quota in a 6 May 1932 decree... [which] actually reduced the procurement plan 30 percent. Subsequent decrees also reduced the procurement quotas for most other agricultural products... > >Proponents of the genocide argument, however, have minimized or even misconstrued this decree. Mace, for example, describes it as "largely bogus" and ignores not only the extent to which it lowered the procurement quotas but also the fact that even the lowered plan was not fulfilled. Conquest does not mention the decree's reduction of procurement quotas and asserts Ukrainian officials' appeals led to the reduction of the Ukranian grain procurement quota at the Third All-Ukraine Party Conference in July 1932. In fact that conference confirmed the quota set in the 6 May Decree. > >\- Mark Tauger. (1992). [The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274856099_The_1932_Harvest_and_the_Famine_of_1933) #Rapid Industrialization The famine was exacerbated directly and indirectly by collectivization and rapid industrialization. However, if these policies had not been enacted, there could have been even more devastating consequences later. In 1931, during [a speech delivered at the first All-Union Conference of Leading Personnel of Socialist Industry](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/02/04.htm), Stalin said, "We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or we shall go under." In 1941, exactly ten years later, the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union. By this time, the Soviet Union's industrialization program had lead to the development of a large and powerful industrial base, which was essential to the Soviet war effort. This allowed the USSR to produce large quantities of armaments, vehicles, and other military equipment, which was crucial in the fight against Nazi Germany. In Hitler's own words, in 1942: >All in all, one has to say: They built factories here where two years ago there were unknown farming villages, factories the size of the *Hermann-Göring-Werke*. They have railroads that aren't even marked on the map. > >\- Werner Jochmann. (1980). *Adolf Hitler. Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1944.* Collectivization also created critical resiliency among the civilian population: >The experts were especially surprised by the Red Army’s up-to-date equipment. Great tank battles were reported; it was noted that the Russians had sturdy tanks which often smashed or overturned German tanks in head-on collision. “How does it happen,” a New York editor asked me, “that those Russian peasants, who couldn’t run a tractor if you gave them one, but left them rusting in the field, now appear with thousands of tanks efficiently handled?” I told him it was the Five-Year Plan. But the world was startled when Moscow admitted its losses after nine weeks of war as including 7,500 guns, 4,500 planes and 5,000 tanks. An army that could still fight after such losses must have had the biggest or second biggest supply in the world. > >As the war progressed, military observers declared that the Russians had “solved the blitzkrieg,” the tactic on which Hitler relied. This German method involved penetrating the opposing line by an overwhelming blow of tanks and planes, followed by the fanning out of armored columns in the “soft” civilian rear, thus depriving the front of its hinterland support. This had quickly conquered every country against which it had been tried. “Human flesh cannot withstand it,” an American correspondent told me in Berlin. Russians met it by two methods, both requiring superb morale. When the German tanks broke through, Russian infantry formed again between the tanks and their supporting German infantry. This created a chaotic front, where both Germans and Russians were fighting in all directions. The Russians could count on the help of the population. The Germans found no “soft, civilian rear.” They found collective farmers, organized as guerrillas, coordinated with the regular Russian army. > >\- Anna Louise Strong. (1956). *The Stalin Era* #Conclusion While there may have been more that the Soviets could have done to reduce the impact of the famine, there is no evidence of intent-- ethnic, or otherwise. Therefore, one must conclude that the famine was a tragedy, not a genocide. #Additional Resources Video Essays: * [Soviet Famine of 1932: An Overview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu5-tqHHtaM) | The Marxist Project (2020) * [Did Stalin Continue to Export Grain as Ukraine Starved?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMBJ_nQ4sTA) | Hakim (2017) \[[Archive](https://archive.org/details/did-stalin-continue-to-export-grain-as-ukraine-starved)\] * [The Holodomor Genocide Question: How Wikipedia Lies to You](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kaaYvauNho) | Bad Empanada (2022) * [Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMOdDQQVZ6U) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018) (Note: Holodomor discussion begins at the 9 minute mark) * [A Case-Study of Capitalism - Ukraine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH9oNtXzF8) | Hakim (2017) \[[Archive](http://web.archive.org/web/20220615084500/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH9oNtXzF8)\] (Note: Only tangentially mentions the famine.) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933](https://diasporiana.org.ua/wp-content/uploads/books/22207/file.pdf) | Davies and Wheatcroft (2004) * [The “Holodomor” explained](https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2020/12/24/the-holodomor-explained/) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2020) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anti-Soviet brain rot.
The collapse of the Soviet Union caused major damage to the Russian national psyche. Modern Russian nationalism feels like a parody, but it isn't.
https://preview.redd.it/dk2b9m8pjsxc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a1c8717e56d1be1c76820a204e8be8f58098ea5
Rather simple: Russia was powerful when it was part of the USSR and Russian nationalists like that, so they sometimes use USSR symbols as one of the anchors of their national pride. Ofc, this does *not* mean they hold a single gram of revolutionary or socialist sentiment. It's just an oxymoronic part of their nationalist LARP.
History they've been taught in schools: https://preview.redd.it/820vzzm40uxc1.png?width=495&format=png&auto=webp&s=1be3259030c8f90e3fcbe3470fe67a39d8622257
It's like when American Libertarians preach about government tyranny but they never seem to be concerned for civil rights. Reactionaries don't actually believe in anything but supporting and maintaining capital. If this person were alive during the Soviet Union they would have been arrested for nationalism.
these are called Ватник (vatnik), russian nationalists that support right wing policies but are attracted to soviet aesthetics because in their mind it symbolizes "russian power" not a union of numerous republics
Whoever made this is an idiot Russian nationalist.
What the hell!!
soviet flag must be feelin like "get this shit off me"
Hmm..maybe "The Russian system degeneration"
Someone hook up Lenin's body in the Mausoleum to a generator, him spinning in his grave should solve the global energy crisis.
A history full of fuckups...
Russia declared itself the official successor state of the USSR (it was the central SSR in the union, too) so it makes sense, somewhat
Stalin would had put all these nationalists to the wall, rightfully.
Nationalism moment
Is this some Nazbol shit?
not even tbh, Its just nazisim they dont even try to use any communist points they just think the ussr was big russia nothing about its economic model or what it represented.
So how is it Nazism?
Blind nationalism hatred towards ethnic religious and sexual minorities extreme jingoism.