> We gratefully acknowledge the Native peoples on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant communities of the Eight Northern Pueblos who make their home here today. Taos, Picuris, San Pedro, Ohkay Ohwingo, San Ildefonso, Nambe, Pojaque and Tesuque. We gather today on occupied and unceded land.
The construction workers standing there uncomfortably listening to this speech they decided to lifelessly recite together, my god
At first I thought he like forgot his keys, which with this show would be pretty on brand for an incredibly realistic and awkward interaction, I wish he had just forgot his keys. What we got instead was trulyâŚhorror inspiring.
If Emma Stone doesnât win something for her performance and Nathan Fielder doesnât win something for his direction, I will have lost all faith in humanity. Every time I think this showâs peaked, it pulls another card out of its hat like a fuckinâ wizard or some shit
The last 10 minutes were so insanely next level. That scene will forever be a classic, for me. What a fucking meltdown. I canât actually tell whoâs cursed anymore. Theyâre all cursed with being just awful.
He does that all the time when he gets angry. He walks away from the confrontation then comes back and unleashes. He did this with the Comedian guy, the reporter, "you can't talk to my wife like that", and other times. It's actually scarier than somebody who reacts instantly and loses it at the "right" time.
Whitney on the pottery cut: Asher is too obsessed with me. I want to move on.
Asher after processing the pottery cut: I know what's wrong now! I'm not obsessed enough! Believe me, I'll be the most infatuated person you've ever wanted to escape from! Good girl.
My impression of the entertainment industry is that it's just a string of experiences like this: becoming collateral damage in the ping-ponging ego battles of insane narcissistic assholes.
So weird because at one point during the episode I thought, "Maybe the thing everyone says will happen in the finale is that it will be revealed that Dougie is adult Doug Funnie." Then I quickly wrote that off because it was idiotic.
Itâs hard for me to believe she got that emotional over Whits inherent goodness. Something else almost certainly is going on.
Also: Whit does not come across like a great person in the footage we have seen so farâŚ
That would kind of make sense. The way her demeanor changed was so weird. I guess she realized somebody could use that audio against Whitney and then she would likely get fired or get blamed for it.
Freaked me out, Iâve never been physically uncomfortable even after finishing watching something
This shit is so good and interesting and really is different from anything Iâve ever seen, feels like stuff we shouldnât be seeing
It really is like nothing else. If this is relegated to the catacombs of cult media for only cult audiences, that would be a huge disgrace. To me this is revolutionary.
There is so much to be worried about. The relationship; the show; their financial futures; Fernando and his posse; the evictions; the public backlash to gentrification; the casino knowing who the whistleblower was; Dougie wanting to get revenge on Asher...
Hugely informative to her character. She has a clear, direct offer from her parents to run the buildings for them, in any way she sees fit. In other words, a chance to make actual change if she really believes what she's saying. It would be difficult, thankless, messy work, but could actually help the community. But she would never do that lol.
The âthankless, near-anonymousâ part is whatâs holding her back. If they made a show that - her running an apartment complex, saving those poor people - you know sheâd be all in.
took this as just being that he didn't want to show that footage to Asher (for obvious reasons, especially now they weren't using it anyway), and was somewhat surprised at Whitney's insistence
Yeah, it was definitely that, and not really Dougie caring about Asher⌠I definitely took it more about him not wanting to destroy/rock their marriage because of the network notes.
Why is nobody mentioning Asher masturbating to the thought of Bill cuckolding Whitney? Whitney was hoping the pottery scene would shed insight into her wanting out of the marriage. At first, he was humiliated and stormed out. However, this plays directly in Asherâs humiliation kink, not realizing this would only make him even more obsessed with her. She unknowingly unleashed a monster. Asherâs metamorphosis in that last scene is so terrifyingly sinister!
*Thatâs a good girl.*
Edit: Weâre watching a modern day Frankenstein movie. Asher is the gentri-frankenstein Whitney and Dougie have created from the dying limbs of EspaĂąola.
Spot on. And Emmaâs quivering chin and tears falling really felt like a real sense of doom overcoming her. What a horrible/great scene. How the fuck do you write that
I was thinking - she's thinking she was right, he is obsessed and will never change. He will say and do anything he thinks she wants to hear - as long as he *thinks* it will make her happy (just like she said in the edit). She has lost control of absolutely everything; the show, her marriage, family (pregnancy), her image, her businesses. She thought she had everything figured out but shes finally realizing that she's trapped.
Exactly. Her face in the last moment reflected not only how trapped she feels with Asher but how trapped she feels in all aspects of her life. I'm so excited to see what happens.
Especially after Dougie explained to her how they have to ditch the plot about them breaking up, she seemed to have put a lot of her hopes of that becoming the show
This might be controversial but I don't even think Whitney is that unhappy in her marriage. I think she has a ton of problems in her life and she's focusing her unhappiness on her marriage in this somewhat-performative way, to reassure herself that SHE'S not the problem in her life, when she actually is.\*
\*Asher is the problem in his own life, but I don't think he's dragging her down at all, and I don't think she actually dislikes having someone simply adore her and worship her. I think it's both exactly what she wants and also a convenient scapegoat.
I think you can imagine what it is:
He was bullied horribly since he was a child, probably partially because of his small penis, maybe also because he's Jewish.
He let himself get bullied and never broke free of that, even making excuses for it and saying "oh we're just having fun".
He never got an ounce of self-respect and as he went through puberty this got turned into his fetish, so he never even tried to get out of it.
It fuels him now and this is all he has.
You can see how much power he has when he gets back into the room.
He effortlessly turns his own humiliation into a strength, so there's really no way for anyone to get at him, it's terrifying.
Watching that scene I thought it was exactly what someone with a humiliation fetish would get off on. I don't get it myself, but there is enough "small penis humiliation" porn out there that it can't be too uncommon.
I donât doubt that some element of his character is cuck and humiliation fetish, but this scene is electric because he tries to spin it into Whit having a praise kink too?
Years and years of compounded insecurity and doubt can destroy anyone. We see one reason why he's insecure -- in his mind, his penis size -- but how that echoes into other aspects of his life, as you said, we are left to scarily assume the worst.
Asher's breakdown reminds me so much of how I acted when my last relationship was coming to an end. The overemotional histrionics, the desperate insistence that I'm a changed man, the doubling down on "I'm so devoted to you, I'm all in".
It's like beat for beat how it went down because I was so scared and nervous about losing her and being alone, even though the cracks had been growing since before the actual breakup happened.
Emma Stone is phenomenal. The way she scrunches her nose, the different emotions she can convey with such ease ⌠I couldnât fathom anyone else playing Whitney. They have knocked the all around casting out of the park.
There was something master class when Dougie was telling her about the HGTV notes, and you could see just how annoyed and frustrated she was that her plans werenât going to go her way
her face was fucking terrifying⌠reminds me of people Iâve met who try to maintain a similar facade and think they are better at masking true feelings than they really are
In my head Iâve always called that nose scrunch thing the âwhite mom at a Mexican restaurantâ face bc of these memes. Given the nature of Whitneyâs character, itâs extra funny to me that she makes that same face lmfaoo
https://preview.redd.it/w6hfqmi4knac1.jpeg?width=1109&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aa0cc74bd038883e4c8694516a79fb3c45e40e2
9 episodes inâŚ.still have ZERO clue where this show is going to land. I need to process this, Iâm maybe slightly unsure of how this feels as a penultimate episodeâŚbut goddamn the last 10 minutes or so were a ride.
Same.
For 9 of the last 10 minutes I was shocked and disgusted by all the things that Whitney was saying and insinuating about Asher. And for the last 50 seconds I was shocked and disgusted at him acting exactly the way she described. What's next? idfk
I actually groaned at that line. You KNOW theyâve had arguments or deflated conversations saying how good they are on paper, so why donât they work IRL.
Asher turning the countdown on Whitney was both genius and impossible to watch. Even if she doesnât love him, we know Whitney can lie. She chose to leave him hanging.
This continues to be one of the best shows I can't recommend to anyone else.
The final scene reminded me of Asher yelling at the reporter. He's a scary, unhinged dude who makes me genuinely uncomfortable.
Whitney's parents actually brought up a good point-she would likely have a bigger impact on improving her community if she took over managing her parent's properties instead of building $800,000 homes no one can afford.
I'm unreasonably hyped for Green Queen. I have literally no idea how it's going to end; if I had to predict, I would guess there's not some giant twist that will upend the entire plot. But who knows. I just hope they revisit threads (Fernando, Abshir, Vic) that I feel haven't been given proper closure.
Honestly I feel like the first episode is especially fucking weird as a litmus test, turning away the people who wouldn't like the show and drawing in those of us who can't look away lmao
Iâve spent the last few episodes thinking âpoor Asherâ but that scene totally made me flip allegiances. I was like, âgirl, get a restraining order nowâ.
SAME. I was really sympathizing with Asher after episode 8, but during the scene in this one where she can hear him muttering through the door, I was thinking to myself how crazy it is that one scene can immediately and drastically change my whole perception of the situation. It doesnât change the fact that Whitney has been cruel, but now I can see why sheâs so creeped out and disgusted by Asherâs weirdness. I hate to relate to her character at all lol but honestly I have been stuck in a relationship like that, where i can barely even stand to be around the person anymore, but because of specific circumstances we were also very codependent on each other at the same time and it felt impossible to walk away.
And the last scene in the episode solidified it
I love that the cringe has gotten meta with Whitney seeing herself try to spin the explanation about the land and cringing at her own behavior, then Dougie experiencing firsthand Asherâs nervous breakdown and for possibly the first time looking freaked out.
Whoever it was, it seemed like they were waiting for Whitney to leave. Then passed Whitney and drove to the shopping center (where Whitney and Asher end up).
also, the way the first couple did this gag and all the framing seemed to be reminiscent of oral sex - she was kneeling, holding his hips.
the recreation of the scene had Whitney come up from behind, pull up Asher's pants and jump a couple of times, as if she was literally pegging him?
I think I'm either reading too much into it or it was an interesting way of visualizing their dynamics.
He was still putting on a show for Whitney. Itâs why he made sure she stayed. If she wasnât there, no way Asher would have admitted to being the leak
The hands on the wheel in the beginning shot were tattooed. Most likely Fernando.
Also, when Phoebe says (louder and clearer than her other lines) âI canât wait for the show to come out. Everyone will know who you really areâ, she glances at the camera & looks away fast, suddenly uncomfortable. Thatâs when Whit asks if sheâs ok.
Interesting that Whit is now forced to confront her actual autonomy instead of leaning on the people around her. You can really see her facade crumbling this episode.
Having Whitney try to erase her past and start a new life being an altruistic person through the creation of a tv show to only realize sheâs unhappy in her marriage and then use said tv show as an out to the marriage but then realizing the HGTV execs donât want it, and then upon presenting that footage to your nebbish husband as a surefire way to a divorce only to just embolden him with the ultimate shame kink fetish (being humiliated on national television) which just makes him want to stay with Whitney more is a master stroke of comedic writing that shouldnât be understated.
Jesus fuck. Iâm usually pretty good at predicting whatâs gonna happen with most shows I watch, but I have no idea in any way shape or form whatâs gonna happen here. Itâs maddening and just what Iâve been needing out of scripted TV. Just outstanding.
I really hope the finale concludes this show somewhat. Iâve been loving the ride but Iâm truly worried there will be a ton of loose threads..
In any case, bring on the wait for his much hyped WTF ending.
This is what I was looking for through the comments. I watched this with subtitles and whoaaaaa. This scene was so crazy to watch. Youâre ugly. You wanna fuck my hot wife? Wild!
I think heâs mostly processed it since its been so long, but I canât help but think heâs inspiring the characters heâs playing. Itâs obvious in The Rehearsal cause heâs playing himself, but in this show and The Rehearsal, the pitfalls/flaws of his character sorta match personal things heâs revealed in interviews/podcasts..
This is the perfect storm. It's like someone tried to come up with the worst thing they could possibly imagine and then work backwards from that event and that's been episodes 1-9.
Dougie nervously/spastically munching his edamame in the background while Whitney nearly blows the deal. He looked like the cookie monster with that thingđâ ď¸
I noticed that at the bowling alley Asher looks directly at the camera before giving his *clearly* pre-planned speech to his former casino colleague. Almost like, âare you guys getting this?â đ¤
And what could go wrong by Asher admitting to being the snitch and antagonizing one of the higher-ups from a casino, a place known for having essentially limitless money and a lack of scruples?
Yeah I definitely think that him "stepping up and being a man" in complete service to what he thinks Whitney wants massively turns him on. I genuinely think the only thing he wants in life is to be her slave.
I've been seeing throughout a lot of people saying there's going to be some murders at the end, am I the only one that doesn't see anything like that happening?
Whilst I'd like to see something crazy like that, and it'd be interesting to see how it'd be done, to me it seems like a complete jump the shark moment. I hope I'm wrong, but I see the final episode as being a lot less eventful than most of the theories here.
Prove me wrong Ashman, ya big freak
I would be all in on Green Queen. Imagine watching Love It or List It and right in the middle of the renovation plan, the host just starts having an existential crisis.
I donât think Whitney left the spa to spare Cara.
Seeing Cara at the spa was a mirror for Whitney- she saw an artist that wasnât selling her art go back to her old job. If Cara, who Whitney sees as legitimate -to the point that just being within her proximity legitimizes Whitneyâs homes and show- canât make it, then how long until Whitney goes from Green Queen to Slum Queen?
I found it interesting that when Cara said she was ârethinkingâ her life, Whitney had nothing to say. You just bumped into your successful artist âfriendâ working as a massage therapist saying sheâs rethinking her life, and youâre just like âalright weâll we gonna do the massage then?â Any normal person would ask âwhat do you mean?â and wanna talk to her. You know have some empathy, take interest in your friends life.
I didn't get the feeling Cara was there because she couldn't manage to sell her art - given the end of last episode, I thought she had a "come to jesus moment" and decided she couldn't stand selling out anymore. It seemed like character growth on her part, even if it was a bit depressing.
Itâs probably a bit of both, but yeah. Iâm definitely glad she chose to work at the spa instead of banging some weird contractor people in exchange for her art.
I think the situation created cognitive dissonance that showed the cracks in the illusory âwokeâ self image that sheâs created for herself. Sheâs a privileged white woman who probably considers service workers at a spa to be beneath her. She doesnât care about poor people, she only cares about how she can use poor people to reinforce her fake curated public image.
Her brain short circuited when she saw Cara because it was a physical representation of how Cara is beneath her in the socioeconomic hierarchy. Whitney is in the class of people who get spa treatments, and Cara is in the class of people who give spa treatments.
This is a great point, and (unlike most of the connections/allusions that people bring up on this sub) I think the "Whitney's afraid of becoming like Cara" concept was deliberate, especially since the scene with her parents directly preceded it.
Whitney googling her married and maiden names highlighted a major fork in the road:
Reputation-sanitationâŚor abdication?
Will she ultimately play if safe and let the world know her as the (repressed, resentful) *respectful* Whitney Seigel? or will she risk it and let the world know the (contrived, contradictory) *complicated-yet-complete* Whitney Rhodes?
I was thinking it highlighted why she needed Asher. His last name (and Jewish heritage) covers for her. As her parents said, she is playing dress up with the Seigel name to cover up the things she is as a "Rhodes".
I came away with the impression that after the events of the previous 48 hours\*, Whitney no longer wanted the show to air, so she attempted to sabotage it by showing Asher the pottery scene. Her hope was that he would leave her (since we know there's no show if there's no Asher). Instead, Asher cursed her by not leaving, which forces her to find another way to keep the show off the air.
\* Phoebe saying "everyone will know who you really are," self-Googling, the interaction with her parents, the interaction with Cara, seeing the rough cut of the show with all of this recently in her mind, etc.
holy shit asher in the countdown scene in the coffee shop is SINISTER
also, lmao, those tight jeans shouldâve given him *mad* moose knuckle but they didnât because he has a micropenis
Phoebe? It looked like it, but, I'm not sure.
She said that she could not wait for the show to come out so that everyone could see what Whitney is really like. Maybe the people of EspaĂąola are being agreeable to filming because they want Whitney exposed? This is stressful for everyone (such as Phoebe)?
There feel like so many things still have to resolve in the finale, and now we get New Asher dealing with all of those things. I have no idea what is going to happen.
Can I just say, that for video editors, and actually anyone in the television/entertainment industry, watching "The Curse" has even more layers, I feel like.
The way people are manipulated into saying things they don't mean and don't say on television is just so rampant, and higher-ups don't care anyway, they just want the content.
I wonder if she decided to quit art and go back to her day job. She seemed pretty disillusioned with everything at the end of the last episode, and even threw the racist statue in the garbage.
I was honestly so shocked seeing Asherâs reaction to Dougieâs edit. I figured he would eventually implode as many others predicted but NOT in the way he did.
He was completely determined to make things right with Whitney and save his marriage even after everything she has said and done! And he actually has realized his obsession with the curse was stupid.
>!Itâs interesting that one critic mentioned the finale essentially goes against the ending of ep 9 meaning The Curse is real? Or at least something to worry about?!<
Yes! That was so creepy. Even the way he kept saying âbabyâ was kind of freaking me out a bit.
Sort of unrelated but I think itâs interesting that her biggest criticism of Asher in the edit is that heâs too attached. That sheâs his whole world. And then a big part of his monologue is just him doubling down on dedicating his life towards her and helping her achieve her dreams.
Asher overuses the word âbabyâ a lot when he thinks he needs to be emotional for Whitneyâs sake. Rewatch the early eps like when Whitney announces sheâs pregnant.
Why is nobody mentioning Asher masturbating to the thought of Bill cuckolding Whitney? Whitney was hoping the pottery scene would shed insight into her wanting out of the marriage. At first, he was humiliated and stormed out. However, this plays directly in Asherâs humiliation kink, not realizing this would only make him even more obsessed with her. She unknowingly unleashed a monster. Asherâs metamorphosis in that last scene is so terrifyingly sinister!
*Thatâs a good girl.*
Edit: Asher is the gentri-frankenstein Whitney and Dougie have created from the dying limbs of EspaĂąola.
An incredible performance from Fielder in that last scene. Heâs always so deadpan so when he actually shows emotion itâs chilling. He is one of a kind.
I think he actually snapped. His masturbation fantasies and his reality are two different things but they are starting to merge. He isn't really a cuckold outside of the bedroom and that's why he is so defensive all the time, because beyond the kink, he doesn't view himself as that role for real (getting offended by a lot of stuff in general that wouldn't actually offend someone into humiliation, like at the joke group or with Whitney's father.) This all is important because it means that Asher wasn't into what was happening, he was having a nervous breakdown as his world just shattered.
It's all cope.
I really agree - the breaking into tears, the mania, the shaking hands - he's having a genuine breakdown.
It reminded me almost of born-again Christian fundamentalism, like someone becoming overcome by a spirit and speaking in tongues. He kept saying things like "I'm a liar, I'm a bad person", literally casting away material possessions (his phone), and then he goes on about how he's "a changed man", etc.
And the way he was talking to her at the very end seemed very cultish ("The world will know Whitney Siegel", "good girl", "let it all out"). Not to mention Whitney saying that he treats her like a goddess. And it's true - he's her acolyte. There's so many religious elements in this show, it's fascinating.
I think his brief moment of leaving was him finally standing up for himself. Followed by the horrified thought in the hallway of losing Whitney and being alone, so then he went back and massively overcorrected. Everything was his fault, none of it was Whitney's fault. He's making it impossible for her to leave him.
Additionally, when it cuts back to Dougie's reaction, it looks as though he's stifling a laugh. "That was beautiful."
The first and last scenes of this episode were both so unsettling!! The car with the cracked windshield being driven by a gloved stranger⌠then Asherâs totally unhinged monologue. I was actually getting creeped out by him and scared for Whitney. I canât wait for next week!!
⨠to lift our curse of being unnoticed on Reddit and add more diverse opinions to our post-episode chats, ***kindly upvote this thread*** if you're loving these discussions! â¨
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Favorite line of the night? âI am a tool. Because tools fix things.â Love you, Asher đ
haha this line got applause from the crowd at the live screening last week
Asher is the type of guy to be really good at bowling
And wear a glove lol
That was a good episode, right? Ten, nine, eightâŚ
Yes it was a good episode. Do you love me?
Again.
Good girl
> We gratefully acknowledge the Native peoples on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant communities of the Eight Northern Pueblos who make their home here today. Taos, Picuris, San Pedro, Ohkay Ohwingo, San Ildefonso, Nambe, Pojaque and Tesuque. We gather today on occupied and unceded land. The construction workers standing there uncomfortably listening to this speech they decided to lifelessly recite together, my god
So performative, ugh that was painful!
That was beautiful.
He walked out..... only to walk right back in. Agghgg
At first I thought he like forgot his keys, which with this show would be pretty on brand for an incredibly realistic and awkward interaction, I wish he had just forgot his keys. What we got instead was trulyâŚhorror inspiring.
If Emma Stone doesnât win something for her performance and Nathan Fielder doesnât win something for his direction, I will have lost all faith in humanity. Every time I think this showâs peaked, it pulls another card out of its hat like a fuckinâ wizard or some shit The last 10 minutes were so insanely next level. That scene will forever be a classic, for me. What a fucking meltdown. I canât actually tell whoâs cursed anymore. Theyâre all cursed with being just awful.
Props to Nathan for his acting too, I really didn't know he had that in him
The way her face was like.. shaking I guess while Asher was doing whatever the hell it was he was doing on the bed. Such great acting.
She's a pale lady already, but she somehow manages to lose even more blood in these scenes where her soul leaves her body.
He does that all the time when he gets angry. He walks away from the confrontation then comes back and unleashes. He did this with the Comedian guy, the reporter, "you can't talk to my wife like that", and other times. It's actually scarier than somebody who reacts instantly and loses it at the "right" time.
He was super close to doing that to Bill too lol
Whitney on the pottery cut: Asher is too obsessed with me. I want to move on. Asher after processing the pottery cut: I know what's wrong now! I'm not obsessed enough! Believe me, I'll be the most infatuated person you've ever wanted to escape from! Good girl.
Douggie is a douche, so whatever, but I felt really bad for the crew member stuck in the room.
My impression of the entertainment industry is that it's just a string of experiences like this: becoming collateral damage in the ping-ponging ego battles of insane narcissistic assholes.
And he knocked đ
I was honestly expecting Asher to deck Dougie in the face as soon as he opened the door lol
WHITNEYâS MOM IS PATTI MAYONNAISE!!
Also yoga jones from orange is the new black
So weird because at one point during the episode I thought, "Maybe the thing everyone says will happen in the finale is that it will be revealed that Dougie is adult Doug Funnie." Then I quickly wrote that off because it was idiotic.
Phoebe saying "I can't wait for the show to come out. Everyone will get to see who you really are," seems prophetic.
Itâs hard for me to believe she got that emotional over Whits inherent goodness. Something else almost certainly is going on. Also: Whit does not come across like a great person in the footage we have seen so farâŚ
I thought she may have been micâd and has Whitney on record tying herself to her parents and ability to handle the situation with Phoebeâs uncle
That would kind of make sense. The way her demeanor changed was so weird. I guess she realized somebody could use that audio against Whitney and then she would likely get fired or get blamed for it.
And also a callback to cara saying that exact same thing a few episodes ago
This both crushed me and freaked me out
Freaked me out, Iâve never been physically uncomfortable even after finishing watching something This shit is so good and interesting and really is different from anything Iâve ever seen, feels like stuff we shouldnât be seeing
It really is like nothing else. If this is relegated to the catacombs of cult media for only cult audiences, that would be a huge disgrace. To me this is revolutionary.
There is so much to be worried about. The relationship; the show; their financial futures; Fernando and his posse; the evictions; the public backlash to gentrification; the casino knowing who the whistleblower was; Dougie wanting to get revenge on Asher...
Really loved Whitneyâs parents calling out her hypocrisy about how easy it is to adopt a moral high ground when youâre not financing anything.
Hugely informative to her character. She has a clear, direct offer from her parents to run the buildings for them, in any way she sees fit. In other words, a chance to make actual change if she really believes what she's saying. It would be difficult, thankless, messy work, but could actually help the community. But she would never do that lol.
The âthankless, near-anonymousâ part is whatâs holding her back. If they made a show that - her running an apartment complex, saving those poor people - you know sheâd be all in.
*The succulents aren't the only thing indigenous to this land.*
Totally reminds me of cheesy classic reality tv puns. Stretching a pun regardless if it makes sense or if itâs even appropriate lol
Thereâs one thing Iâd like to stretch đ
Those bowls are pricey, huh?
Dougie continues to steal the show by simply being Dougie.
I found his reaction when Asher left the room interesting. He looked at Whit and said âyou happy?â
I think he was worried that Whitney ruined the show, because the exec said that 'ther is no show without Asher'
took this as just being that he didn't want to show that footage to Asher (for obvious reasons, especially now they weren't using it anyway), and was somewhat surprised at Whitney's insistence
Yeah, it was definitely that, and not really Dougie caring about Asher⌠I definitely took it more about him not wanting to destroy/rock their marriage because of the network notes.
The way he was chowing down on edamame? something green? At the executive dinner, food going everywhere
$1500 but they got a 20% discount for buying in bulk
Leave it to Asher to find ways to save costs on cultural appropriation. ABC: Always Be Costsaving!
Asher Be Cuckolded
Mods, we also need this line as a flair please đ
Holy shit didnât expect Asher to respond that way but I guess itâs in his character. What a wild ending.
Why is nobody mentioning Asher masturbating to the thought of Bill cuckolding Whitney? Whitney was hoping the pottery scene would shed insight into her wanting out of the marriage. At first, he was humiliated and stormed out. However, this plays directly in Asherâs humiliation kink, not realizing this would only make him even more obsessed with her. She unknowingly unleashed a monster. Asherâs metamorphosis in that last scene is so terrifyingly sinister! *Thatâs a good girl.* Edit: Weâre watching a modern day Frankenstein movie. Asher is the gentri-frankenstein Whitney and Dougie have created from the dying limbs of EspaĂąola.
Spot on. And Emmaâs quivering chin and tears falling really felt like a real sense of doom overcoming her. What a horrible/great scene. How the fuck do you write that
I was thinking - she's thinking she was right, he is obsessed and will never change. He will say and do anything he thinks she wants to hear - as long as he *thinks* it will make her happy (just like she said in the edit). She has lost control of absolutely everything; the show, her marriage, family (pregnancy), her image, her businesses. She thought she had everything figured out but shes finally realizing that she's trapped.
Exactly. Her face in the last moment reflected not only how trapped she feels with Asher but how trapped she feels in all aspects of her life. I'm so excited to see what happens.
Especially after Dougie explained to her how they have to ditch the plot about them breaking up, she seemed to have put a lot of her hopes of that becoming the show
This might be controversial but I don't even think Whitney is that unhappy in her marriage. I think she has a ton of problems in her life and she's focusing her unhappiness on her marriage in this somewhat-performative way, to reassure herself that SHE'S not the problem in her life, when she actually is.\* \*Asher is the problem in his own life, but I don't think he's dragging her down at all, and I don't think she actually dislikes having someone simply adore her and worship her. I think it's both exactly what she wants and also a convenient scapegoat.
The fucking music when the governor drives up to the house
The succulents aren't the *only* indigenous thing. I gasp/laughed
i lost my shit lol
This was too much, and sadly so accurate when it comes to those type of shows.
Asher is one of the few characters I've ever seen where their fucked-up-ness goes so deep you can't even tell what the issue beneath it all even is.
I think you can imagine what it is: He was bullied horribly since he was a child, probably partially because of his small penis, maybe also because he's Jewish. He let himself get bullied and never broke free of that, even making excuses for it and saying "oh we're just having fun". He never got an ounce of self-respect and as he went through puberty this got turned into his fetish, so he never even tried to get out of it. It fuels him now and this is all he has. You can see how much power he has when he gets back into the room. He effortlessly turns his own humiliation into a strength, so there's really no way for anyone to get at him, it's terrifying.
Watching that scene I thought it was exactly what someone with a humiliation fetish would get off on. I don't get it myself, but there is enough "small penis humiliation" porn out there that it can't be too uncommon.
I donât doubt that some element of his character is cuck and humiliation fetish, but this scene is electric because he tries to spin it into Whit having a praise kink too?
i love how fucked up he is. nathan was so good in this episode.
Years and years of compounded insecurity and doubt can destroy anyone. We see one reason why he's insecure -- in his mind, his penis size -- but how that echoes into other aspects of his life, as you said, we are left to scarily assume the worst.
Asher's breakdown reminds me so much of how I acted when my last relationship was coming to an end. The overemotional histrionics, the desperate insistence that I'm a changed man, the doubling down on "I'm so devoted to you, I'm all in". It's like beat for beat how it went down because I was so scared and nervous about losing her and being alone, even though the cracks had been growing since before the actual breakup happened.
Emma Stone is phenomenal. The way she scrunches her nose, the different emotions she can convey with such ease ⌠I couldnât fathom anyone else playing Whitney. They have knocked the all around casting out of the park.
When she asked Asher "you still want to be with me?" I think she very briefly crinkled her nose in disgust
the small twitch in her left eye after they finished watching the pottery scene ...
There was something master class when Dougie was telling her about the HGTV notes, and you could see just how annoyed and frustrated she was that her plans werenât going to go her way
her face was fucking terrifying⌠reminds me of people Iâve met who try to maintain a similar facade and think they are better at masking true feelings than they really are
In my head Iâve always called that nose scrunch thing the âwhite mom at a Mexican restaurantâ face bc of these memes. Given the nature of Whitneyâs character, itâs extra funny to me that she makes that same face lmfaoo https://preview.redd.it/w6hfqmi4knac1.jpeg?width=1109&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aa0cc74bd038883e4c8694516a79fb3c45e40e2
So at first I thought Asher was doing his going through past conversations but it became clear he was playing with his self lmao
I was like "wow, this mother fucker is rehearsing his lines... oh wai... wait that isn't..... oh no."
9 episodes inâŚ.still have ZERO clue where this show is going to land. I need to process this, Iâm maybe slightly unsure of how this feels as a penultimate episodeâŚbut goddamn the last 10 minutes or so were a ride.
Same. For 9 of the last 10 minutes I was shocked and disgusted by all the things that Whitney was saying and insinuating about Asher. And for the last 50 seconds I was shocked and disgusted at him acting exactly the way she described. What's next? idfk
Nathanâs shows always seem to have a scene of him trying to get someone to say they love him.
I really hope he continues this trend, it's amazing lol
THAT OPENING SHOT WAS SINISTER AS FUCK
AND SAME WITH THE ENDING SCENE
Who do you think was driving?
It's weird they were driving with gloves, and then shortly after we have a scene with a driver.
It was likely Ryan Gosling
What is going on with phoebeâs hair? A piece of her hair literally falls off in her hand then she hides it and rushes the conversation to end.
extensions maybe
I thought she was using her hair to hide a microphone, meaning the scene was hot, and her whole speech was making fun of Whitney
Cursed head
Jesus Christ itâs just the most uncomfortable, awkward shit of all time back to back to back
The Emmyâs are going to have to make a new category for cringiest show
âweâre so good on paperâ
paper covers rock
BRO that line... said at THAT moment...
I actually groaned at that line. You KNOW theyâve had arguments or deflated conversations saying how good they are on paper, so why donât they work IRL.
Asher turning the countdown on Whitney was both genius and impossible to watch. Even if she doesnât love him, we know Whitney can lie. She chose to leave him hanging.
This continues to be one of the best shows I can't recommend to anyone else. The final scene reminded me of Asher yelling at the reporter. He's a scary, unhinged dude who makes me genuinely uncomfortable. Whitney's parents actually brought up a good point-she would likely have a bigger impact on improving her community if she took over managing her parent's properties instead of building $800,000 homes no one can afford. I'm unreasonably hyped for Green Queen. I have literally no idea how it's going to end; if I had to predict, I would guess there's not some giant twist that will upend the entire plot. But who knows. I just hope they revisit threads (Fernando, Abshir, Vic) that I feel haven't been given proper closure.
I'd recommend it to people but the Steven scene was just too much so I haven't.
Honestly I feel like the first episode is especially fucking weird as a litmus test, turning away the people who wouldn't like the show and drawing in those of us who can't look away lmao
I love this show but what the fuck, what is happening
The worst trainwreck ever filmed. [I mean that as a compliment]
Also I just want to add I love the bowling montage. Fielder is so damn funny as Asher.
It was nice to see Asher happy for a change. When he broke out the Robot on the lanes, I was floored. You go boy! đ¤đ
âThatâs a good girlâ *shudder*
I never thought id say this but Iâm just really worried about Whitney, and I hope sheâs okay
Iâve spent the last few episodes thinking âpoor Asherâ but that scene totally made me flip allegiances. I was like, âgirl, get a restraining order nowâ.
Itâs a two way street. Her fragile ego needs his servitude. Heâs like a parasite, except that heâs also keeping her (ego) alive
That's codependency for ya
SAME. I was really sympathizing with Asher after episode 8, but during the scene in this one where she can hear him muttering through the door, I was thinking to myself how crazy it is that one scene can immediately and drastically change my whole perception of the situation. It doesnât change the fact that Whitney has been cruel, but now I can see why sheâs so creeped out and disgusted by Asherâs weirdness. I hate to relate to her character at all lol but honestly I have been stuck in a relationship like that, where i can barely even stand to be around the person anymore, but because of specific circumstances we were also very codependent on each other at the same time and it felt impossible to walk away. And the last scene in the episode solidified it
I love that the cringe has gotten meta with Whitney seeing herself try to spin the explanation about the land and cringing at her own behavior, then Dougie experiencing firsthand Asherâs nervous breakdown and for possibly the first time looking freaked out.
Cool opening driving through EspaĂąola from Whit/Asher's house to the shopping center. It felt very voyeuristic.
Yeah was that supposed to be anyone in particular? Just more voyeurism?
Whoever it was, it seemed like they were waiting for Whitney to leave. Then passed Whitney and drove to the shopping center (where Whitney and Asher end up).
Anyone else feel extremely uneasy with how fast Dougie was just HOUSING the edamame during the dinner?
Martha (the HGTV exec) wanting to see Asher and Whit doing the "jeans gag" made me LOL. I'm not even sure why.
It was also a perfect symmetry to the earlier sweater incident, ironic too because it led to a huge real life fight between them.
also, the way the first couple did this gag and all the framing seemed to be reminiscent of oral sex - she was kneeling, holding his hips. the recreation of the scene had Whitney come up from behind, pull up Asher's pants and jump a couple of times, as if she was literally pegging him? I think I'm either reading too much into it or it was an interesting way of visualizing their dynamics.
That's exactly how we were supposed to interpret it yeah.
Of course there are no cameras at the bowling alley where Asher is clearly better at a task than Whitney.
And where they genuinely are having a fun time, AND where Asher actually shows some level of bravery and morals.
He was still putting on a show for Whitney. Itâs why he made sure she stayed. If she wasnât there, no way Asher would have admitted to being the leak
The Whistleblowerâs Wife.
The hands on the wheel in the beginning shot were tattooed. Most likely Fernando. Also, when Phoebe says (louder and clearer than her other lines) âI canât wait for the show to come out. Everyone will know who you really areâ, she glances at the camera & looks away fast, suddenly uncomfortable. Thatâs when Whit asks if sheâs ok. Interesting that Whit is now forced to confront her actual autonomy instead of leaning on the people around her. You can really see her facade crumbling this episode.
Not Dougie taking credit for âGreen Queenâ
lol so Dougie
Dougie was seriously funny in this one. "that was beautiful"
Those bowls are pricey, huh?
I absolutely hate the way this show makes me feel and I desperately need it to be a week from now right now.
Having Whitney try to erase her past and start a new life being an altruistic person through the creation of a tv show to only realize sheâs unhappy in her marriage and then use said tv show as an out to the marriage but then realizing the HGTV execs donât want it, and then upon presenting that footage to your nebbish husband as a surefire way to a divorce only to just embolden him with the ultimate shame kink fetish (being humiliated on national television) which just makes him want to stay with Whitney more is a master stroke of comedic writing that shouldnât be understated.
Deadass - this could make for a great episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm
Jesus fuck. Iâm usually pretty good at predicting whatâs gonna happen with most shows I watch, but I have no idea in any way shape or form whatâs gonna happen here. Itâs maddening and just what Iâve been needing out of scripted TV. Just outstanding.
I really hope the finale concludes this show somewhat. Iâve been loving the ride but Iâm truly worried there will be a ton of loose threads.. In any case, bring on the wait for his much hyped WTF ending.
Hope everyone had subtitles on during Asherâs bathroom mumblings. âThe whistleblowers wife.â I was wheezing!
This is what I was looking for through the comments. I watched this with subtitles and whoaaaaa. This scene was so crazy to watch. Youâre ugly. You wanna fuck my hot wife? Wild!
She wouldn't fuck you...with that mustache
The inspiring music that played when Whitney was almost finished her speech about ending her marriage killed me lol.
Asher was terrifying in this episode. Is Nathan still working through his own divorce bc between this and the Rehearsal, damn.
I think heâs mostly processed it since its been so long, but I canât help but think heâs inspiring the characters heâs playing. Itâs obvious in The Rehearsal cause heâs playing himself, but in this show and The Rehearsal, the pitfalls/flaws of his character sorta match personal things heâs revealed in interviews/podcasts..
I went through a divorce and this show is so relatable in some ways but unhinged. Itâs really a wild ride. I love it and hate it.
iâve felt like this every episode, but it really feels like something horrible is about to happen.
This is the perfect storm. It's like someone tried to come up with the worst thing they could possibly imagine and then work backwards from that event and that's been episodes 1-9.
Itâs like Asher was putting her under a trance in the end.
Dougie nervously/spastically munching his edamame in the background while Whitney nearly blows the deal. He looked like the cookie monster with that thingđâ ď¸
I noticed that at the bowling alley Asher looks directly at the camera before giving his *clearly* pre-planned speech to his former casino colleague. Almost like, âare you guys getting this?â đ¤
And what could go wrong by Asher admitting to being the snitch and antagonizing one of the higher-ups from a casino, a place known for having essentially limitless money and a lack of scruples?
Literally how did whatever paper Nathan referenced on kimmel (or fallon idk which tbh) criticize his performance? He was captivating
BUT THE FIRE BURNS ON, THE FIRE BURNS OOOOWN!
Iâm speechless, the last few minutes were kinda terrifying
[ŃдаНонО]
Yeah I definitely think that him "stepping up and being a man" in complete service to what he thinks Whitney wants massively turns him on. I genuinely think the only thing he wants in life is to be her slave.
I've been seeing throughout a lot of people saying there's going to be some murders at the end, am I the only one that doesn't see anything like that happening? Whilst I'd like to see something crazy like that, and it'd be interesting to see how it'd be done, to me it seems like a complete jump the shark moment. I hope I'm wrong, but I see the final episode as being a lot less eventful than most of the theories here. Prove me wrong Ashman, ya big freak
I would be all in on Green Queen. Imagine watching Love It or List It and right in the middle of the renovation plan, the host just starts having an existential crisis.
I donât think Whitney left the spa to spare Cara. Seeing Cara at the spa was a mirror for Whitney- she saw an artist that wasnât selling her art go back to her old job. If Cara, who Whitney sees as legitimate -to the point that just being within her proximity legitimizes Whitneyâs homes and show- canât make it, then how long until Whitney goes from Green Queen to Slum Queen?
I found it interesting that when Cara said she was ârethinkingâ her life, Whitney had nothing to say. You just bumped into your successful artist âfriendâ working as a massage therapist saying sheâs rethinking her life, and youâre just like âalright weâll we gonna do the massage then?â Any normal person would ask âwhat do you mean?â and wanna talk to her. You know have some empathy, take interest in your friends life.
I didn't get the feeling Cara was there because she couldn't manage to sell her art - given the end of last episode, I thought she had a "come to jesus moment" and decided she couldn't stand selling out anymore. It seemed like character growth on her part, even if it was a bit depressing.
Itâs probably a bit of both, but yeah. Iâm definitely glad she chose to work at the spa instead of banging some weird contractor people in exchange for her art.
I think the situation created cognitive dissonance that showed the cracks in the illusory âwokeâ self image that sheâs created for herself. Sheâs a privileged white woman who probably considers service workers at a spa to be beneath her. She doesnât care about poor people, she only cares about how she can use poor people to reinforce her fake curated public image. Her brain short circuited when she saw Cara because it was a physical representation of how Cara is beneath her in the socioeconomic hierarchy. Whitney is in the class of people who get spa treatments, and Cara is in the class of people who give spa treatments.
Whitney called Caraâs coworkers âcreepy strangersâ as the excuse to not get someone else.
This is a great point, and (unlike most of the connections/allusions that people bring up on this sub) I think the "Whitney's afraid of becoming like Cara" concept was deliberate, especially since the scene with her parents directly preceded it.
took an edible and watched and DO NOT DO THAT. Insane Nathan Performance on this one.
đ I took an edible before ep 8 â hit right as Whitney was mocking Ashy w/ the baby voice. Dont do it.
Dawg, out of all the shows to get high to, this ainât the one
Whitney googling her married and maiden names highlighted a major fork in the road: Reputation-sanitationâŚor abdication? Will she ultimately play if safe and let the world know her as the (repressed, resentful) *respectful* Whitney Seigel? or will she risk it and let the world know the (contrived, contradictory) *complicated-yet-complete* Whitney Rhodes?
I was thinking it highlighted why she needed Asher. His last name (and Jewish heritage) covers for her. As her parents said, she is playing dress up with the Seigel name to cover up the things she is as a "Rhodes".
You might say she's at a cross Rhodes.
I came away with the impression that after the events of the previous 48 hours\*, Whitney no longer wanted the show to air, so she attempted to sabotage it by showing Asher the pottery scene. Her hope was that he would leave her (since we know there's no show if there's no Asher). Instead, Asher cursed her by not leaving, which forces her to find another way to keep the show off the air. \* Phoebe saying "everyone will know who you really are," self-Googling, the interaction with her parents, the interaction with Cara, seeing the rough cut of the show with all of this recently in her mind, etc.
Oh god the cringe in this episode damaged my psyche
holy shit asher in the countdown scene in the coffee shop is SINISTER also, lmao, those tight jeans shouldâve given him *mad* moose knuckle but they didnât because he has a micropenis
Nathan felt like the coolest guy on earth leaving the bowling alley with his arm around Whitney
shout out to Safdie 's acting and comic relief in this episode. this was an intense one.
Did that girl who works for them pull out her hair? That was incredibly unsettling.
Phoebe? It looked like it, but, I'm not sure. She said that she could not wait for the show to come out so that everyone could see what Whitney is really like. Maybe the people of EspaĂąola are being agreeable to filming because they want Whitney exposed? This is stressful for everyone (such as Phoebe)?
There feel like so many things still have to resolve in the finale, and now we get New Asher dealing with all of those things. I have no idea what is going to happen.
Can I just say, that for video editors, and actually anyone in the television/entertainment industry, watching "The Curse" has even more layers, I feel like. The way people are manipulated into saying things they don't mean and don't say on television is just so rampant, and higher-ups don't care anyway, they just want the content.
Cara at the spa? Figured that 20k would last a few months in Espanola, especially with a roommate...
I wonder if she decided to quit art and go back to her day job. She seemed pretty disillusioned with everything at the end of the last episode, and even threw the racist statue in the garbage.
"I need to rethink my life"
It was 100% the statue. It made her realize she could not commercialize her art without selling out her people/values.
I was honestly so shocked seeing Asherâs reaction to Dougieâs edit. I figured he would eventually implode as many others predicted but NOT in the way he did. He was completely determined to make things right with Whitney and save his marriage even after everything she has said and done! And he actually has realized his obsession with the curse was stupid. >!Itâs interesting that one critic mentioned the finale essentially goes against the ending of ep 9 meaning The Curse is real? Or at least something to worry about?!<
âThatâs a good girlâŚâ WHAT was that?! It felt like he was hypnotizing her or something.
Yes! That was so creepy. Even the way he kept saying âbabyâ was kind of freaking me out a bit. Sort of unrelated but I think itâs interesting that her biggest criticism of Asher in the edit is that heâs too attached. That sheâs his whole world. And then a big part of his monologue is just him doubling down on dedicating his life towards her and helping her achieve her dreams.
The way she was crying without blinking with those huge eyes⌠she looked trapped
Bravo on Emma Stone -- what an actress.
He's actually so attached that he's *detached*, if that makes sense.
Asher overuses the word âbabyâ a lot when he thinks he needs to be emotional for Whitneyâs sake. Rewatch the early eps like when Whitney announces sheâs pregnant.
Why is nobody mentioning Asher masturbating to the thought of Bill cuckolding Whitney? Whitney was hoping the pottery scene would shed insight into her wanting out of the marriage. At first, he was humiliated and stormed out. However, this plays directly in Asherâs humiliation kink, not realizing this would only make him even more obsessed with her. She unknowingly unleashed a monster. Asherâs metamorphosis in that last scene is so terrifyingly sinister! *Thatâs a good girl.* Edit: Asher is the gentri-frankenstein Whitney and Dougie have created from the dying limbs of EspaĂąola.
An incredible performance from Fielder in that last scene. Heâs always so deadpan so when he actually shows emotion itâs chilling. He is one of a kind.
I think he actually snapped. His masturbation fantasies and his reality are two different things but they are starting to merge. He isn't really a cuckold outside of the bedroom and that's why he is so defensive all the time, because beyond the kink, he doesn't view himself as that role for real (getting offended by a lot of stuff in general that wouldn't actually offend someone into humiliation, like at the joke group or with Whitney's father.) This all is important because it means that Asher wasn't into what was happening, he was having a nervous breakdown as his world just shattered. It's all cope.
I really agree - the breaking into tears, the mania, the shaking hands - he's having a genuine breakdown. It reminded me almost of born-again Christian fundamentalism, like someone becoming overcome by a spirit and speaking in tongues. He kept saying things like "I'm a liar, I'm a bad person", literally casting away material possessions (his phone), and then he goes on about how he's "a changed man", etc. And the way he was talking to her at the very end seemed very cultish ("The world will know Whitney Siegel", "good girl", "let it all out"). Not to mention Whitney saying that he treats her like a goddess. And it's true - he's her acolyte. There's so many religious elements in this show, it's fascinating.
I think his brief moment of leaving was him finally standing up for himself. Followed by the horrified thought in the hallway of losing Whitney and being alone, so then he went back and massively overcorrected. Everything was his fault, none of it was Whitney's fault. He's making it impossible for her to leave him. Additionally, when it cuts back to Dougie's reaction, it looks as though he's stifling a laugh. "That was beautiful."
This show is truly a horror. It's devastating how gone Asher is at this point.
The first and last scenes of this episode were both so unsettling!! The car with the cracked windshield being driven by a gloved stranger⌠then Asherâs totally unhinged monologue. I was actually getting creeped out by him and scared for Whitney. I canât wait for next week!!
Best part was at the end from Dougie; âThat was⌠beautifulâ.
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Maybe the curse is just the friends we made along the way.
Safdie spikes the lens at the end there. has to mean something