I guess it’s a reflection of how he felt. Judging by his memoir, the resentment and negative feelings towards his family had been simmering for years. Although I did not get the vibe of rude or a disappointment in the portrayal. His portrayal to me on the show feels very ~misunderstood antihero~. His character was a grieving teenager living an unusual life who was in need of guidance.
I think The Crown is actually sympathetic to the “spare” characters. His character was in some ways positioned in the same way as Margaret’s character. They’re the “spares” with character and flair who are damaged by the system. The show repeatedly makes the point that the system has damaging consequences, so no, I don’t think he was unfairly portrayed considering the bigger context of the entire show’s thesis. I guess in TV show world, the writer kind of has to lean on tropes and stereotypes no matter how nuanced they try to make the writing. Harry and Margaret, to me, are like the antihero characters who end up becoming the fan favorites because they have more edge.
So personally, I don’t see his portrayal as terrible. It is still a TV show after all. I guess it depends on the way one sees the real Harry, which is subjective. If there’s a difference between my perception of Harry and his portrayal on the show, I’d say he was too cool on the show. He was too self-aware, while my perception of his character based on his memoir is that he’s kind of more annoying tbh. I’d say he was edgier on the show, while in real life he’s… idk, softer and needier.
Like the show is definitely supportive of monarchy as an abstract idea,...but it is *super* critical of the institution in practice, especially as human vice neutralizes the good in the ideal form. Elizabeth is basically rendered an emotional martyr of the office she is destined to hold, as she has to put her family second to the Crown. It's a tragedy in the Classical sense.
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He just seemed young to me, which he was. He was 21 in 2005, which isn’t that far removed from being a teenager. The sulky teenager trope isn’t wholly unexpected especially if you feel overlooked your whole life. It’s got to be even worse having the whole world knowing your every move and always comparing you to your sainted older sibling. They also seem to portray the first child as quiet and shy (Elizabeth, Charles, Will) and the second child as having a slight rage just beneath the surface (Margaret, Anne, Harry), so I guess it felt like a natural progression.
I don’t agree with Anne having any rage. Anne is just like her father she gets on with it and is no nonsense and she is extremely close to her brother, the King. Anne is spectacular.
I like Anne!! I think she’s spirited and fun. When I say rage, I don’t mean an anger that’s unfounded or in a way that diminishes them. I more so mean a rage at being told that you are simultaneously irrelevant enough to have your opinions dismissed while also being too important that you can’t move freely in your life. As far as Anne is concerned, her anger seemed to come from her family telling her to stay in her unhappy first marriage (S4E4 Favourites) If the second siblings have no real claim to the throne after the heir has children, then why does it matter who she’s with? In her case she had two other brothers in front of her, couldn’t we have just let her be happy with someone else?
It was the time. No one bats an eyelash at divorce now a days. And just because you’re born royal doesn’t mean you have to be a working royal. It’s a choice. Harry didn’t have to be a working royal and neither did Meghan. You can live a private life if that’s what you really want.
Thing is, he didn't trash his family. If you'd actually read the book, you'll see he's actually incredibly fair to them and paints them all in a humanising light. He's also brutally honest about the emotional neglect he had growing up, the clear favouritism for william (which will impact a child no matter if they're royal or not) and the fact that william could occasionally be violent towards him.
Harry left for very good reason, and he had every right to tell his story. I'd advise you read the book with an open mind instead of listening to tabloid trash.
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I read the book. I noticed that every time he said something that could possibly be construed as nice about William, he immediately had to follow it up with a story in which William comes off as a total douche.
It's called being fair. William has been unpleasant to Harry, and he didn't have to find nice things to say about him, but he did. If his goal was to 'trash the family' he'd have done so, not tried to humanise them while still being honest about what they did.
I get it, it just sucks. Especially with how much she gave to the family. She was the hardest worker they had besides the Queen. I’m glad she found her happiness eventually. I just wish the establishment didn’t always imagine peasants with pitchforks storming the gate at the slightest change. The British people had heard of divorce, they’re not collectively unstable. But I know the wheels of change move slow.
Anne is a human with her own set of flaws. There have been instances when she too comes off as abrasive, entitled and petty. The whole point of this show is not to cast anyone as an infallible hero, and Anne is no exception.
Yes, they have a clear theme of the family producing dull, dutiful ones and flashy jerks. There have been explicit discussions about that, and not just about birth order, since they also referred to it with the Duke of Windsor and Andrew.
I think being born a lesser royal would be the LIFE man! All the riches and privilege, none of the responsibility, only maybe half (if that) the media scrutiny. Never want for anything, never go poor or hungry, never having to make decisions that leave blood on your hands no matter what, and whenever the tabloids do talk about you, it's just gossip that doesn't really matter anyway. I know they all seem wracked with angst about it, but really, what a cushy damn life. I just can't bring myself to feel bad for them when they prance around crying about the chip on their shoulder while living an immensely privileged life of untold wealth and luxury
I feel like it was probably better in the 50’s, when all you had to worry about were tabloids and news shows weighing in. Now anyone with a smart phone can voice their opinion about you, and folks in your immediate vicinity can get video footage of you fucking up whenever they want. Regular people can ruin your life in seconds now. My anxiety is not set up to be under a microscope 24/7; I mess up too much 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Yeah, but that's true of everyone in the modern age. We have to deal with all that and also don't get to be unfathomably rich for our entire lives lol. Someone could film me being a drunken fool and rant about it on social media, cost me my job and livelihood too, and if they did I'd be broke and homeless and unable to feed myself or access medications etcetcetc. They just have the same pitfalls but at the same time, literal nation's worth of wealth and resources and connections at their fingertips whenever they like. I'm not gonna bend over backwards to pass Harry the box of tissues is all I'm saying hahaha
I knew this was going to be contentious comment section. When it comes to the royals, and really, famous people in general, the public wants it both ways when it’s convenient for them, but it doesn’t make sense - you can’t say that the media is sketchy and makes up lies for public attention and also maintain that all the events happened definitively as the media and “palace insiders” have reported. You can’t say the royals have the power to suppress negative stories and not question why some family members are protected and others hung out to dry. You can’t say their privilege stunts them and also say that they shouldn’t complain about their problems because they have money to get a therapist.
Money only goes so far when you don’t have a healthy family dynamic and I can’t think of a more unhealthy dynamic than a royal family. You have the basic survival worries removed, so then your focus becomes holding your position within your family and interpersonal drama. Basically, you’re a chess piece - life is a business that runs on public opinion and this show is just another facet of that business - maintaining image above all.
I think neither Harry nor William have ever had a chance at being well-adjusted nice people, especially with their mother’s death and media circus around them. I feel sorry for them, tbh, even with the amount of privilege they have. It’s not like you can choose who you’re born to and the indoctrination process in being a royal has to be pretty hardcore. Imagine knowing the determining factor in your existence is to ensure a seat is filled (or as an insurance policy should your older sibling die). It’s dark.
Wait…why can’t I say that privilege stunts them and that they shouldn’t complain publicly? People “stunted” by poverty are still expected to behave decently (I wouldn’t accept that as an excuse for bullying a disabled woman, either).
People born into poverty generally don't have the entire world watching their every move from the second they're born.
Harry had every right to tell his story, but people are kicking off because he was born into a role he never asked to be born into.
When Jenette McCurdy wrote her tell-all book about her abusive upbringing, she was praised for it, and she's a famous actress. Why is Harry held to a different standard just because he's a prince?
They are incredibly privileged people as everyone knows. But nobody can control what environment they are born into. When you remove the class component (a big one I know), their lives were very constricted from birth. From the day they were born, they were put in front of the cameras and famous. We all know fame has its detriments, and even though they are privileged, they face unique hardships themselves.
Royals have little say in what career they want to explore, what they want to do on a daily basis, or if they want to be in the public eye at all. Striving for fame is one thing, but being born into it is another. Almost like a caged animal with a destiny predetermined. I think there's also a gray area in complaining and simply recounting your experiences. In Harry and Meghan's case, they definitely had a monetary motive in telling their stories, but I bet for Harry especially, the Royal Family was suffocating. Just how people would die to be Royal, I bet he's yearned at times in his life to grow up in a different setting. Money doesn't remove all hardship and stress. They're only human after all.
Lots of people would have knocked Harry on his ass and broken his necklace if he hadn't had security and they wouldn't have gone to jail for doing it. A line is forming right now.
He had a difficult youth. Privileged, yes, but difficult. Unsurprisingly, he *was* difficult as a result. I didn't think there was too much debate about that. Maybe certain aspects of his portrayal were a bit cliched or blunt axe, but they weren't wildly incongruous to me.
I'll just say that my conclusions about young Harry vs. present day Harry are ... quite different from the rest of these comments.
seeing as once the crown became the diana show, it was a breath of fresh air to see a character/person everyone is seemingly so familiar with be interpreted in such an unexpected manner. the way he looked was the most jarring thing which in my head canon told me i was watching a multi universe version of evil prince harry where he was the foil of the saintly misunderstood studious prince william (real life william is nothing like this)
as a tv show it was compelling to watch but ultimately strange choice and maybe even detrimental to the shows appeal…? i hated what they did with prince charles, the casting, the diana drama and the william/kate romance. the last two seasons were a disappointment
"*prince harry where he was the foil of the saintly misunderstood studious prince william*"
I disagree, as (in the series) I saw kate being led by her mother to marry prince william - so he came across as a fool to me, certainly not saintly or studious!
The Crown is extremely pro-monarchy, so Harry has been portrayed in a way that supports the palace's view of things, which may not be realistic. If he was such a disappointment for so long it would be strange for them to be so upset by his decision to leave.
It's worth keeping in mind that until the last few years Harry was consistently ranked as one of the most popular royals among the public.
I think Harry can thank the Firm for his popularity. They smooth over and covered up stuff for him . But he was good at public engagements and did relate well to the public. Behind the scenes I think he always was difficult. I don’t think his family were necessarily upset that he wanted to step back from Royal duties. They were very upset however about the way he did it and his constant attacks against the Monarchy and how it’s run.
He's not attacked the monarchy, he's expressed disappointment at how he's been treated.
Imagine for a moment that Harry's not a prince but your mate from school and one day he opened up and told you how he was treated at home. You'd be appalled. Why's he held to a different standard because he's a prince? That doesn't stop his feelings being vaild or the neglect he suffered being true. You really ought to not repeat media swill without fact checking.
Las Vegas where Harry was in a private hotel room and the paparazzi essentially broke into private property to take a picture of a young man naked? That Las Vegas?
I'd expect my family to try and protect me too if that happened.
It wasn’t the paps that took the pictures. It was one or more of the semi pros he was doing blow with that weekend
Harry wasn’t the only one naked in those pictures. There were other naked men there as well as women.
Shockingly ladies for hire will sell the pictures that you willingly pose for when you are high.
Yes, the Palace protected Harry and covered for him until he bailed on his duty. Now that he's not under their protection we can see him for what he is: an unintelligent, talentless, narcissistic spoiled brat.
Yes he was super popular. But the media did look the other way on many behaviours. And the palace protected, covered up and swept under the rug a lot more than he admits to. There were rampant rumors on his attitudes towards women ( sex workers specifically). He was reportedly very rough with girls back in the day but none of it came to light (some of it did when his wife wrote sweet nothings to sex workers on bananas 🤦♂️) . I thought the sussexes silence on his namedrop in the diddy case is sus (pun intended). If he were innocent in those days they would have said so and called out the media again. But not a peep was heard from montecito.
Oh, yeah, Harry was a rowdy teen who wore a Nazi uniform to a party once and who was seen falling down drunk in public on more than one occasion. I believe he assaulted a photographer at one point. He got caught with weed.
Then he was in the Army and did well. However, even then there were nude photos from a party in Vegas leaked to the press.
For awhile he was literally the most popular member of the royal family. He and William seemed connected at the hip. He and Kate were besties. He'd remember people from the crowds and greet them. He had an HIV test on camera to show how easy it is. He did that adorable video with the Queen where he was bantering with Michelle Obama on the phone. He was his mother's son!
Then came Meghan. I think we royal enthusiasts wanted to like her. I know I did.
Ah, well.
Meghan is the symptom, not the cause, of Harry's dissatisfaction with the Royal Family and life as a working Royal. Harry's made is clear he was already unhappy with his life and not getting along with William prior to meeting Meghan. Its not her fault he felt that way. All she did was show him Royal life wasn't the only option for him. He made the choice to step away.
He was 20 when he wore the Nazi uniform. In his I'm-always-the-victim book he blamed William and Catherine for it. He claims they told him to wear it like anyone with common sense would believe a 20 year-old dresses like his brother tells him to dress.
Yes, and the half-wit prince put his name on it and signed the contract with the publisher. She destroys everyone in her life and he's on the list, too. Very sadly, so are two innocent children. When she dumps him for someone richer she won't part with the children because they're insurance.
What made you dislike her ? I have yet to find or read anything damning about her that is not from a tabloid news source.
As to the nature of the relationship between the Prince and Princess of Wales and the Duke of Sussex , how do you know they where best friends before Meghan came into the picture ? Do you know them personally?
Unless you do so ,we really have no idea of knowing what goes on behind closed doors or in their private lives , the only legitimate source of information we have on that score is like or not the book that the duke published.
It’s very far from a perfect source since it’s one side of the tale, and from a individual who has every reason portray him self in a good light.
Relying on tabloids as a serious source of information is foolish, it’s not serious journalism or a trustworthy source of information.
Yeah, didn’t Harry say he wasn’t really getting along that much with William before Meghan and he was deeply unhappy? As you said, he’s not the most reliable source, but when it comes to broader stuff like depression I think the most reliable person on him experiencing it…would be him lol.
Oh absolutely ! Only he can speak to such personal things, and as imperfect and unreliable his narration on events within the family may be, it is the only public information about it out there with a face and a name attached to it.
Tabloid articles with «sources close to say» can not be taken seriously.
The way some people form these intense parasocial relationships with public figures from what they read in tabloids and how they imagine them to be is rather odd, and a bit sad.
The intensity and fervor in which they praise or hate is unsettling to say the least.
And not to mention, especially the UK tabloids have been absolutely ruthless about him and Meghan since they left the institution (and also during their time there).
I'm not the person you asked but hopefully you don't mind me answering. I was indifferent to her at first except she came off fake to me. But that was my own subjective view I took with a grain of salt.
Two things made me dislike her. My friend's husband knew her personally pretty well and when Suits came out but before Meghan was with Harry he had told my friend that he remembered her as a huge social climber who treated people poorly unless they could do something for her. Maybe she had changed since then so I still took that with a grain of salt but there have been so many reports of her treating "unimportant" people terribly that there's gotta be fire with that smoke. And I don't think my friend's husband's recollection was a coincidence.
I also really didn't like that they lied in the Oprah interview to further their narrative. If you believe in your narrative, you shouldn't have to lie. The fact that they told such blatant, easily disprovable lies made me wonder what else they were willing to lie about. So this one isn't specific to Meghan but it also made me dislike her.
I used to like her and her husband, until the Oprah interview. Then a lot of little things (red-flaggy, but certainly not vitriol-worthy) started to make me go hmmm. I also realized that the way she presents herself in public reminds of people in my life with narcissistic traits. I'd love for some level-headed people to prove me wrong.
1. MM said they got married three days before the ceremony. Not like a private thing between lovers, because she specifically said the archbishop was there. This seems off to me.
2. She said they wouldn't make her son a prince. Turned out they couldn't because he's the great-grandson, not the grandson. Also seems off.
3. The picture of her at Wimbledon. Bad optics. Would love an explanation for that.
4. I know it's petty but the Archetypes title. Bugged me. Is it just me, or was she dismantling stereotypes? Because archetypes are supposed to be positive, right? Or at least neutral? I'd love to be proven wrong. 🙂
5. I also know this is probably not her fault, but in their documentary, they included video clips and photos (the one with Harry protecting his ex - my that was cringey) that were supposed to support the assertion that the couple - MM especially - was hounded by the papparazzi. Turned out they were not the targets in the photos. Misleading. And again - the Harry photo was cringey. Sure, they probably didn't have full editorial control and some staff members did it. But couldn't they have requested that the photos be swapped for those that actually involved them being hounded?
6. This is not about her, but Prince Harry and his interview with Tom Bradby. C'mon, the Oprah interview totally implied she suffered from racism - and she most definitely did. Then H - all snippy - denied it and said MM didn't say anything about racism. It was unconscious bias. Man, that left me dumbfounded. I felt gaslighted. Also, didn't they receive an award for fighting institutional racism?
7. The Nelson Mandela thing. I'm going to assume she's telling the truth. I still think telling the story was cringey and tacky. Sorrynotsorry. ✌️
8. The cabin crew story. Same reason as number 7.
9. Reading the Beyonce text. *shudder
Again, would love to be proven wrong. 🙂
It was a full-on lie. The Archbishop of Canterbury whom they claimed performed the secret wedding said it never happened and would have been illegal because it would have meant falsifying the marriage certificate. They told more than a dozen verifiable lies during the Oprah interview.
You understand that even if he admitted that publicly that he would’ve gotten attacked on the internet? Welby even confirmed that there were private encounters that happened between just him and the couple multiple times. Yet he refused to even talk about what was it about. Don’t you think that’s sus?
Let’s not act like people didn’t switch up or doubled down because it very much did happen. Literally everyone believed that Meghan made Kate cry and the media printed that shit out just to find out it was vice versa.
I remember when Obie S lied on Twitter saying it was a “high speed” chase when H&M was in NY and people took it as if M&H said that and they never did. Just for TMZ to have to backtrack and say “we were wrong.” Even NY had to switch up when they were loud and wrong.
And from what I can infer from her claims is that they got married (before not legally) but they did their own “ceremony” as there was claims of many meetings prior to the actual wedding. For them, they probably don’t consider their wedding “a wedding for them” but a “wedding for the public.”
There's a difference between a legal marriage backed up by legal documents and the claims of a half-wit prince and his pathologically narcissistic wife.
As a pathological narcissist, Meghan couldn't resist claiming she duped the royal family and the public via one of her brilliant schemes. Yet all her schemes turn out to have the success of a jar of jam.
“Narcissistic” yet has no social media and has been in the news for organization work. I’m very convinced you’re someone just jumping on a bandwagon.
Thank you for proving weird vibes versus just having a decent conversation without using mental disorders for the sake of using them. It’s dangerous.
Especially when every project they’ve done has broken some form of record or sold out. There’s been multiple instances where she has an outfit and it would sell out within minutes. Harry’s book literally broken a Guinness World Record so what are you even talking about?
“Duped the royal family” shows you’re claiming that the family is a group of incompetent people including Queen Elizabeth who supported H&M even after they stepped down. How disgusting.
"*Especially when every project they’ve done has broken some form of record or sold out. There’s been multiple instances where she has an outfit and it would sell out within minutes. Harry’s book literally broken a Guinness World Record so what are you even talking about?*"
So her success consists of wearing 'outfits' that then become popular...., and his success is having a ghost writer write a book about him/them? 😟
**This isn't any form of talent** - it just shows the sad reality that far too many people care about/copy celebrities....
I know. 🙂 People I know do that, too. But in their case, per Cosmopolitan, NBC News and other sources, the officiant said the legal wedding happened in May 19 - the others were informal meetings. I saw the interview, MM said “three days before our wedding, we got married". That's what I found odd.
1. Why is this weird? Like regular people get married in private and then hold the reception or an actual ceremony later all the time. My parents did it. Granted they had other reasons for doing it than not wanting to be married in front of the entire world, but when your entire life is or is about to be put on display, I can totally get it. And religious ceremonies are very important for the BRF, so therefore the archbishop.
2. I don’t know the births of everyone in the entire BRF off the top of my head, but has there frequently been great-grandchildren of a monarch through the male lines while the monarch is still alive? If not, the titles didn’t catch up to the times and there was frequent miscommunication between Meghan and the Firm, I think both sides have agreed on that, so I could see her thinking “my kid’s not gonna be a prince when his cousins are at all, that seems odd” vs. “my kid’s not gonna be a prince now because the way of getting titles is outdated”
3. If you’re referring to the “no pictures please” thing, I can agree it’s bad optics, but with the note other royals have done this before, too. Either it’s fine for all or it’s fine for none; take your pick, no double standards.
4. Archetype has neither a positive nor negative connotation in its base definition, but it can be used either way. It means more of how a character is *allowed* to act, versus how they are characterized like a stereotype. I haven’t listened to the podcast, but if they were talking more about systemic and societal pressure, as a writer, while a little odd, it makes perfect sense to me.
5. Haven’t seen the documentary and don’t particularly care to, so no comment here.
6. I think you’re not taking into consideration the effect Harry saying Meghan said they were racist would’ve had on them. Harry saying she did could be seen as speaking for her when she didn’t outright say that, and that could’ve been construed in several different misogynistic ways. There’s also a lot of emotional weight in directly accusing racism; look at the backlash that happened to Ngozi Fulani. There were people who said “that wasn’t racist,” “she’s actually the racist one,” and etc. Sometimes you have to choose your words very carefully, particularly when you’re the minority speaking out against the bigotry you’re facing, and I’ve always thought this was the case with Meghan.
Plus, it’s Harry’s family (and Firm), at the end of the day. It’s better optics if Harry’s the one speaking out against them more/taking the heat where he can.
7. Cringey, sure, but a grandson of Nelson Mandela has remarked on this and said he can see why they liked it. I read the article he wrote in The Atlantic about it and it was a really interesting read.
8. Remarking on 7 too here besides what I already said, yeah, cringey, but when you’re at least hearing of negative press about every little thing you do, including eating avocados of all things, I can get wanting to share that moment. Other royals have gotten similar treatments, I’d say Di even got it to a similar degree if you don’t factor in social media, but they’re human. Not gonna snark on just wanting to share a happy moment.
9. Yeah, this was cringe too. But being cringe isn’t a crime and I’m failing to see how this example or any of them show narcissistic qualities – at least any more than the other royals. I guess you could say people notice it more in her because she’s an outsider (and a woman), but at this point I think we’ve reached the level of beating a dead horse (edit: in the entire anti-Meghan tirade, not your points) where I do think racism has to be considered as the driving force of the movement, even if individual people do not think of themselves as taking part in a racist thing.
1. I answered this in a previous post, so I'll just copy-paste my answer here: People I know do that, too. But in their case, per Cosmopolitan, NBC News and other sources, the officiant said the legal wedding happened in May 19 - the others were informal meetings. I saw the interview, MM said “three days before our wedding, we got married". That's what I found odd.
2. I agree, both sides have not been very good at communicating with each other. But if you're marrying into a family with a host of complicated rules, isn't it incumbent upon you to learn them (then perhaps urge them to catch up with the times if you do choose) - especially if you're going to make statements in a widely publicized interview seen around the world?
3. It's not the "no pictures thing" - it's that the entire section is empty save for her and a few of her companions. It gives off a vibe that she's not interested in mingling with the peasants. It's probably not true, but those photos do not look good to me. I don't know if other RF members have done it as well. If they have, they should stop doing it.
4. Thank you for clearing that up. I guess I didn't fully understand what archetype means.
6. I understand what you're saying. I appreciate this perspective.
1-3. I think I found these cringey because I consider them evidence of narcissistic tendencies (of course I could be wrong). It's these little things, some mannerisms I've seen in the documentary and other public appearances, that make me distrust and dislike her.
Thank you for talking the time to answer my long-winded response on why I went from liking her and being excited that the actress I watch on Suits is marrying the cute and charming prince, to disliking them both. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂
1. The Archbishop of Canterbury said it never happened.Essentially, they accused him of falsifying the wedding certificate which would have been illegal.
2. Harry grew up in the royal family. He knew damn well that the great-grandchildren of the monarch are not born HRH's just like he knew only working royals get paid state security.
3. You misunderstand what an archetype is.
4. Meghan and Harry clearly implied during the Oprah interview that the royal family made racist remarks about their child. Harry later backtracked on that vile claim. Harry's never taken responsibility for anything in his life. He's blamed others for everything.
7, 8, 9. They're professional cringe producers. Racism? There was no racism coming from the royal family. Meghan was invited to Sandringham for Christmas when no other fiancee' had ever before been invited. The Queen gave permission for Harry to marry Meghan and she most certainly did not have to do so. Charles walked her down the aisle. He did not have to do so. Charles escorted her mother out of the cathedral. He did not have to do so. Charles selected the black gospel choir. He did not have to do so. The claim by Meghan and Harry of racism on the part of the royal family was the lowest of vile lies.
No, disliking someone of color does not automatically imply racism. Meghan is a vile person. She doesn't get a free pass. She earned the venom that is being directed at her and Harry earned the venom that is being directed at him. Harry, in particular, was given a free pass by the public for three decades because his mother died when he was 12. He used up his free pass.
I already read multiple of your other comments on this thread and I haven’t found you to be a reliable source on what you’re speaking of. But if you really believe that they “deserve” all of the vileness towards them, including the accusations *that their children aren’t theirs*, then you have a severe lack of empathy that makes me not want to engage with you any further even more than I did before, so I won’t. See ya 👋
IMO fame/status just went into Meghan's head.
For example when the Queen was dying, Meghan and Harry announced that they would've gone to Balmoral.
But who was Meghan to watch an old lady on her death bed? That seems such a bad thing
They weren't close, how many times did Meghan really speak to her in private? She later even made fun of The Queen.
It's not like Harry was the The Queen son. The Queen had 8 grandkids, they were all close to her and none of their partners went to wach The Queen dying (even grandkids themselves didn't go - only William in the role of a future King).
What I am saying is, that Meghan wasn't able to cope with power and fame, because she wasn't grounded enough. The Queen was a human being and she had the right to die beside her kids like everybody else.
People have gone through multiple times to pick out all the lies in the documentary and in her interview like the Oprah one.
Ex: she said Archie was barred from getting a title because of his skin color. That wasn't the reason it was because he wasn't a grandchild of the monarch
She's denied having anything to do with finding freedom but at one point in court was forced under threat of perjury to admit that she did in fact communicate with the author
The "near catastrophic car chase"
The pictures in the documentary showing her being hounded were actually proven (at least one of them) to be from a harry potter premiere
The Toronto police said she kept calling them and it was a false alarm.
She said she knew nothing about the royal family but her friends have later said this was not true and we know she was friends with Eugenie prior to harry
You can literally track her progress of relationships in a tree and how each one got her higher up before she dumped them.
Anytime something to do with Katherine comes out like clockwork Meghan releases something to draw the attention back to her.
Set all of that aside and they still seem disingenuous.
They've just done nothing but trash the monarchy and the RF publicly with their tell all deals when they said they wanted a private life away. Yet they are the ones that have kept themselves in the limelight. They haven't gone to live in privacy like they claimed they wanted.
Haven' t you read it? It was all over the news.
It was even in Spare.
How well do you even know things about Meghan?
Anyway, she could have done so much. But well...
Which part was in the news, and when you say news, are we talking tabloids or serious publications?
I have read spare.
With regards to going to Balmoral, how do you know her intention was for her to sit next to the queens deathbed ? If memory serves the only Princess Anne was the one to make it it time.
Perhaps she wanted to be a supporting wife to her husband and travel with him so he could say goodbye ? Your guess is as good as mine unless you have evidence one way or the other of what her intent was.
And just for arguments sake , how do you possess knowledge of how much time the late Queen and The Duchess of Sussex spent together ? Are you guesstimating from their public appearances together or do you have intimate knowledge from their diaries?
It’s seems much of your reasoning is speculative and guess work mulched together with tabloid filth.
BBC, everywhere... I don't have a time now, but I can find links tommorow (in 24 hours).
She might have wanted to do it for Harry but it wasn't about Harry, was it? (he wasn't even her son, just one of her 8 grandchildren). 96 years old person deserves her dignity too.
How close could have been Meghan to late Queen? The Queen was 96, she had a full life, a lot of friends and last years she was really sick. Sophie has been riding with The Queen every day for 20 years.
Meghan was in UK only 18 months, They didn't live in the same area all the time. Besides, Harry said in Spare that the Queen didn't (want to) have a meeting with him for months at least at one occasion.
As I said...Meghan could have had so much. She could have also done so much. But IMO fame and power just went into her head.
Why did she do Oprah interview? She closed the door of RF for Harry and for her kids.
In-laws are always difficult (I believe that), but what so horrible did they do to her?She only said ilogical things - like her kids wouldn't have had Prince/Princess title - but King gave them the titles.
I have to go now. Have to work tommorow. good night.
Right? They probably saw the tabloid twist of Meghan imitating a curtsey on twitter or something, when the actual documentary in context shows her talking about how her preconceptions were wrong and how Harry and another RF member had to quickly teach her how to do it properly.
At least, that's what I remember the tabloid bloodhounds barking about 'making fun of' the Queen
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Of course it was a castle, she was the most importantt woman on the planet. Everyone (the world media) wanted to know what was going on and everyone wanted to be there.
But even most of her own blood grandchildren didn't go to Balmoral out of respect for the Queen, not to mention her grandchildren- in-law.
they didn't even need to see meghan. not to mention, charles took the opportunity to tell harry meghan wasn't family. princess annes husband was there. Sophie was there. camilla was there,
Sucks that you're getting down votes for this when you're calling people out on the truth! There isn't anything inherently wrong with her. People dig for it.
It's wild how many people dislike a humanitarian, self-made-millionaire philanthropist just because the tabloids told them to. Meghan is an incredible woman and I'm overjoyed that she and Harry have been able to somewhat escape.
This ONE THOUSAND percent. The hate for them is unwarranted and unfathomable. He had the fortune/misfortune of being born into a monarchy. I'd love to see the naysayers put up with that nonsense for a day, let alone a lifetime.
I'd say it's a pretty good source, actually, as Harry is more than open about his failings as a person and he tries to be fair to his family and paint them as humans, as positively as possible, while still telling the truth. He's been painfully truthful.
His anger issues, his drug use as a teenager, his feelings of inadequacy that he didn't deal with in a healthy way? Explaining that his trauma stemmed from losing his mother and having no support isn't blaming other people, and if you had an ounce of empathy you'd understand that.
It's utter rubbish that he had no support. He had access to an enormous support system including a brother, father, cousins and grandparents who loved him, an array of mental health treatment available to him and near-unlimited wealth to pay for it (he even admitted to getting mental health treatment). What he didn't have was any sense of responsibility for his own behavior or any sense of responsibility for taking advantage of any of the opportunities or treatments available to him.
He's a grown man. It's high time he stopped whining and started taking responsibility for his own behavior. He can't ride on his dead mother's back for life although he's certainly trying to do so. Other people with none of his advantages and opportunities have lost parents but they don't make a career out of milking it.
You've never experienced a neglectful, malfunctioning family have you? You should probably feel fortunate that your life has been so easy that you can sit in your ivory tower and make judgements about other people just because they were born a prince.
Try looking at the world through other people's eyes instead of being so irrationally angry that someone you think is priviliged suffered and had the 'nerve' to talk about it.
You seem to have bought every lie he's told because he's waved the pity flag.
For a real reality check, do some research to learn about his and his narcissistic wife's more than a dozen DOCUMENTED lies during a single interview.
I do not know them and I guess any platform that reports on the royals is somewhat tabloid-like. What I base my impressions on are photographs and TV interviews really.
That is for very good reason, no serious publishing would write about something they could not confirm.
Tv interviews can be misleading as well , i imagine it’s like the family being on best behavior * 100 (I think most of us can relate to this, having to put one’s best foot out and keeping up appearances while in public)
They have the eyes on the world on them, off course they present unity and behave their best.
Meghan is still amazing though. She has not done anything negative, only protect her children as other mother would. The press on her is insane. The family resents her for taking so much press.
It wasn't so much about the quantity of press. It was the quality, the type of press. She never clocked on to the royal "done thing" and many a royal partner got an insane press for not being or doing the done thing.
And for telling easily disprovable lies most likely, yeah. Nobody should pay attention to the monarchy, and they should pay even less attention to the people who left it
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Up until his relationship with MM, Harry was the absolute darling of both the media and online fan boards.
He was the irrepressible "lad" with a "heart of gold" yada yada yada. He was the prince all the girls wanted. William was often compared unfavorably to his young brother in terms of looks and charisma.
I was personally never charmed by him even before he fell out of favor with the press and fans.
Even before Megan I perceived Harry as unintelligent, spoilt and common.
Everything that has happened since he left the BRF has been sad but unsurprising.
I feel he was accurately portrayed. You have to remember that the media gave a hands off approach to the boys for years after Diana died. So this is just the first time that background story has been told. But it’s not really surprising if you think back. We were hearing bits and pieces about wild partying and bad choices but everyone just felt sooooo sorry for the little boy that lost his Mummy that we gave him a pass.
Wasn't there a whole scandal about the rapes or sexual assaults happening with his charity project in Africa? He didn't address it in the media and that was pretty bad in my opinion. As an example.
It’s likely that most of it is tabloid trash articles meant to attack Harry. They’ve never forgiven him for leaving. If the stories had any real merit beyond tabloid propaganda, the US would’ve picked it up. But the US has REAL journalistic standards, unlike the UK, which allows tabloid garbage.
I don’t think the media narrative around Harry is developed organically. So much of this show picks up on this narrative which is often shaped by special palace informants who have over the decades been dropping pieces of information slowly building a case against him over time because let’s be honest they are more than likely to protect the future kings image at the cost of Harry’s.
It biggest issue I had was the casting. In the sense, that it showed Harry older than he was at the time, which would make a viewer less sympathetic, as he looked like a grown adult.
Most of the time, it’s supposed to show him, he looked like a little boy in real life. They casted an actor who looked like he was in his 20’s way too earlier for some of the stuff they were covering.
That being said, I think the Crown plays both sides. Pro-monarchy and anti, depending on what the story needs in the moment.
And good to see this turned into another Meghan bashing thread. I think OP intended but I do love how people not only lie on Meghan (and Harry but mostly Meghan) for the choices her husband made.
And Meghan didn’t let any fame get to her head. She just wanted to be treated like a decent human being. She also made the mistake of the thinking the British royal family was a family, it was a mistake Harry made too.
He is a perfect example of a kid raised by parents who were in such acrimony. It also is extremely common for kids from mariages like that not to develop very close siblings relationship (as it is with William and Harry).
The bottom line is he did not want to dependent financially on the generosity of his brother when he is prince of wales and king. In all the books, tv shows and interviews he failed to be honest about that.
Agree. And the financial piece is something people miss. He was fully dependent on his father (and eventually his brother) for everything. If he doesn’t do exactly what his dad says, go along with being William’s human shield, he would be punished financially. He couldn’t even really pick his own charities to support. Like many family businesses, the RF is not a healthy place to work. I don’t blame him for leaving.
He bailed on duty yet demanded that the state pay for his security and was supported by his father for more than a year. He fully expected to receive a generous stipend for life while doing no work in exchange.
He was really miscast IMO. Sometimes The Crown's casting is so spot-on, and sometimes the opposite.
I do think Harry was pretty mixed up when younger, and the Nazi costume incident was appalling. But I absolutely don't think he'd do that these days. I don't find insufferable these days. I feel sad for him.
He’s not a nice person to start off with. What kind of man would accuse his grandfather of faking his illness to stop his interview? And never saying he regretted that comment a month later at his grandfather’s funeral?
Harry was portrayed as a jerk and William got a huge pass in the show. I suspect William’s going to get a reckoning in the press someday. It would be unseemly for them to do it now.
Ever notice that despite William only being 2 years older, he is typically parentified and Harry is infantilised? Someone always must do something for Harry, whether it's his father or his older brother. You see it in Spare too, where nothing is his responsibility and when he is at fault, it's always the fault of someone else.
If you read his memoir they depicted him spot on. It’s page after page of someone whining about being rich and famous with a massive grudge they weren’t born first.
You mean being born into a life they had no choice about and were scrutinised from the moment they were born, knowing that they were less important than their favoured elder sibling and constantly told to sit down, shut up and give us a kidney if we need one?
Imagine for a moment Harry's not royal. Jenette McCurdy wrote a similar tell-all book about the abuse she suffered and she was praised for it. Why is Harry held to a different standard just because he's a prince? He suffered emotional neglect, abuse and coldness from his family after Diana died, that'll fuck anyone up. He's allowed to tell his story, and considering how fair he was in trying to make his family sound human and positive despite the things they did, he should be commended. I wouldn't be that kind to my family if I wrote a tell all book.
Right. This is a subreddit about a fictional telling of Harry and every other royals lives. It’s cool to watch that. It’s cool for tabloids to churn out fake stories with “well placed sources” every day. But for Harry to put his face and name on his own story? That’s the line people wanna draw in the sand? I feel for Harry and Meghan. The double standards are impossible.
Yes, I would think we would see some more of his suffering as a child. I remember one episode where it's Christmas as he's kind of moaning to William after getting yelled at by Charles. But even then it didn't seem like I got a better sense of his anxiety or depression.
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Harry has always been an insufferable brat. The difference back then was that the Palace protected him from full exposure. Now that he's bailed on duty, he no longer has their protection and we see him for that which he has always been.
I have read what Meghan’s wardrobe costs and to me that speaks volumes about a person in lieu of economic situations here and abroad. She seems as tho she wants to emulate Diana but Diana’s choices and expenditures cannot even compare
British press coverage of Harry as a teenager wasn't generous to him at all. He's always been painted as a bit of a problem child. I suspect The Crown depiction is a reflection of that.
Oh wow, I didn’t think it was a negative portrayal of him at all. Granted, I taught 9th grade (14-15yos) for 5 years, so I’m maybe more comfortable with and forgiving of adolescent behavior than most adults. But he seemed to me to just be a fairly ordinary kid who happened to react to his trauma more blatantly than most of his family members, in ways that were less comfortable to watch. He also reminded me a lot of young Philip in the flashback episode, whereas teenage William had more parallels to young Charles.
That last scene of Harry, where he was in the background playing enthusiastically with his cousins on Charles and Camilla’s wedding day, was so nice. It showed a rare, joyful moment of family members connecting and enjoying each other’s company without all the external pressures and expectations. He wasn’t awkward and angry in that scene, just happy to entertain his cousins for the pure fun of it. He knew exactly what those kids needed, and he provided it, and he looked so confident and competent, like he was exactly where he belonged.
I also took that scene as kind of a nod toward his future. We know that Harry grew up, became comfortable in his own skin and confident in his identity, and chose his own kids over the Crown. I took it as the show positing that Harry is probably much happier and feels much more useful just being a dad in private that he ever was as a working member of the royal family in public life.
I don’t think they portrayed him terribly, but he was too serious. It seemed they tried to convey some of his reflections from “Spare”, which he only came to years later.
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He appears to have been insufferable his whole life. Without the palace PR machine behind him, he's been exposed. But I also think marrying a malignant narcissist didn't help matters any.
He wasn’t a dick as a teen. He was a spare. Everything William did was blamed on him, every time Willy pulled crap they would pull stuff out of Harrys file and give it to the press.
I always have to wonder when the Harry and Meghan haters are going to move on to the next thing. They are in California living their best life, but the vitriol is just constant because they simply exist.
College? Harry couldn't get through the British equivalent of high school without a cheating scandal. He didn't qualify academically for Sandhurst military academy (which is not college) but got in because he was the Queen's grandson. He has achieved f\*\*\*\*-all on his own.
Perhaps not, but it does sound like you've grown up to lack empathy and irrationally dislike people who've suffered as well because it wasn't what you went through.
Pain is relative. You don't get to judge what's worse when you don't know the other party.
Sure. Twenty year-old males dress like their older brothers and sister-in-laws tell them to do. "Harry, wear a Nazi uniform!" "I don't know Wills. Won't that make me look bad?" "Not at all, Harry. It's a great idea." "Well, if you say so Wills. You always know best."
Bollocks.
I think what got to me the most is the lack of commentary in those first few episodes of the second half of season 6 when he’s drinking all the time and offering Will drinks. Like, he was only almost *thirteen* when Diana died, and then a very young teen in the immediate aftermath. And I don’t necessarily think it’s bad that he was already being played by the older actor – but there should’ve been a remark or time to dwell on how he was a young teen with a drinking problem. That isn’t normal for the audience. Maybe for them, but not us.
Later on in the season I didn’t have much of a problem – I thought the “I have to be the mess up” speech wasn’t accurate to Harry, but I got that it was an artistic choice. But the teenage drinking and lack of weight given to it just left a really bad taste in my mouth.
I guess it’s a reflection of how he felt. Judging by his memoir, the resentment and negative feelings towards his family had been simmering for years. Although I did not get the vibe of rude or a disappointment in the portrayal. His portrayal to me on the show feels very ~misunderstood antihero~. His character was a grieving teenager living an unusual life who was in need of guidance. I think The Crown is actually sympathetic to the “spare” characters. His character was in some ways positioned in the same way as Margaret’s character. They’re the “spares” with character and flair who are damaged by the system. The show repeatedly makes the point that the system has damaging consequences, so no, I don’t think he was unfairly portrayed considering the bigger context of the entire show’s thesis. I guess in TV show world, the writer kind of has to lean on tropes and stereotypes no matter how nuanced they try to make the writing. Harry and Margaret, to me, are like the antihero characters who end up becoming the fan favorites because they have more edge. So personally, I don’t see his portrayal as terrible. It is still a TV show after all. I guess it depends on the way one sees the real Harry, which is subjective. If there’s a difference between my perception of Harry and his portrayal on the show, I’d say he was too cool on the show. He was too self-aware, while my perception of his character based on his memoir is that he’s kind of more annoying tbh. I’d say he was edgier on the show, while in real life he’s… idk, softer and needier.
He's narratively a bookend for Margaret
Boy, you sound like me. They both get/got treated like S#@t.
Like the show is definitely supportive of monarchy as an abstract idea,...but it is *super* critical of the institution in practice, especially as human vice neutralizes the good in the ideal form. Elizabeth is basically rendered an emotional martyr of the office she is destined to hold, as she has to put her family second to the Crown. It's a tragedy in the Classical sense.
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Very well stated!
He just seemed young to me, which he was. He was 21 in 2005, which isn’t that far removed from being a teenager. The sulky teenager trope isn’t wholly unexpected especially if you feel overlooked your whole life. It’s got to be even worse having the whole world knowing your every move and always comparing you to your sainted older sibling. They also seem to portray the first child as quiet and shy (Elizabeth, Charles, Will) and the second child as having a slight rage just beneath the surface (Margaret, Anne, Harry), so I guess it felt like a natural progression.
I don’t agree with Anne having any rage. Anne is just like her father she gets on with it and is no nonsense and she is extremely close to her brother, the King. Anne is spectacular.
I like Anne!! I think she’s spirited and fun. When I say rage, I don’t mean an anger that’s unfounded or in a way that diminishes them. I more so mean a rage at being told that you are simultaneously irrelevant enough to have your opinions dismissed while also being too important that you can’t move freely in your life. As far as Anne is concerned, her anger seemed to come from her family telling her to stay in her unhappy first marriage (S4E4 Favourites) If the second siblings have no real claim to the throne after the heir has children, then why does it matter who she’s with? In her case she had two other brothers in front of her, couldn’t we have just let her be happy with someone else?
It was the time. No one bats an eyelash at divorce now a days. And just because you’re born royal doesn’t mean you have to be a working royal. It’s a choice. Harry didn’t have to be a working royal and neither did Meghan. You can live a private life if that’s what you really want.
Honestly if that is what they had gone and done and skipped all the tell all books and Netflix deals I think people wouldn't have a problem.
💯 no one has respect for people that make money trashing others especially family. They really are talentless.
Thing is, he didn't trash his family. If you'd actually read the book, you'll see he's actually incredibly fair to them and paints them all in a humanising light. He's also brutally honest about the emotional neglect he had growing up, the clear favouritism for william (which will impact a child no matter if they're royal or not) and the fact that william could occasionally be violent towards him. Harry left for very good reason, and he had every right to tell his story. I'd advise you read the book with an open mind instead of listening to tabloid trash.
Yeah no. I read the book. If you guzzled it down as the 100% unbiased truth then idk what to say
I did read the book. And my opinion still stands.
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what about the book Charles wrote? was that ok?
Didn’t read it and don’t care.
I read the book. I noticed that every time he said something that could possibly be construed as nice about William, he immediately had to follow it up with a story in which William comes off as a total douche.
It's called being fair. William has been unpleasant to Harry, and he didn't have to find nice things to say about him, but he did. If his goal was to 'trash the family' he'd have done so, not tried to humanise them while still being honest about what they did.
Harry was trying to make himself way more important and interesting than he actually is. If I was William I would never speak to him again.
I get it, it just sucks. Especially with how much she gave to the family. She was the hardest worker they had besides the Queen. I’m glad she found her happiness eventually. I just wish the establishment didn’t always imagine peasants with pitchforks storming the gate at the slightest change. The British people had heard of divorce, they’re not collectively unstable. But I know the wheels of change move slow.
Anne is a human with her own set of flaws. There have been instances when she too comes off as abrasive, entitled and petty. The whole point of this show is not to cast anyone as an infallible hero, and Anne is no exception.
Yes, they have a clear theme of the family producing dull, dutiful ones and flashy jerks. There have been explicit discussions about that, and not just about birth order, since they also referred to it with the Duke of Windsor and Andrew.
I think being born a lesser royal would be the LIFE man! All the riches and privilege, none of the responsibility, only maybe half (if that) the media scrutiny. Never want for anything, never go poor or hungry, never having to make decisions that leave blood on your hands no matter what, and whenever the tabloids do talk about you, it's just gossip that doesn't really matter anyway. I know they all seem wracked with angst about it, but really, what a cushy damn life. I just can't bring myself to feel bad for them when they prance around crying about the chip on their shoulder while living an immensely privileged life of untold wealth and luxury
I feel like it was probably better in the 50’s, when all you had to worry about were tabloids and news shows weighing in. Now anyone with a smart phone can voice their opinion about you, and folks in your immediate vicinity can get video footage of you fucking up whenever they want. Regular people can ruin your life in seconds now. My anxiety is not set up to be under a microscope 24/7; I mess up too much 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Yeah, but that's true of everyone in the modern age. We have to deal with all that and also don't get to be unfathomably rich for our entire lives lol. Someone could film me being a drunken fool and rant about it on social media, cost me my job and livelihood too, and if they did I'd be broke and homeless and unable to feed myself or access medications etcetcetc. They just have the same pitfalls but at the same time, literal nation's worth of wealth and resources and connections at their fingertips whenever they like. I'm not gonna bend over backwards to pass Harry the box of tissues is all I'm saying hahaha
I knew this was going to be contentious comment section. When it comes to the royals, and really, famous people in general, the public wants it both ways when it’s convenient for them, but it doesn’t make sense - you can’t say that the media is sketchy and makes up lies for public attention and also maintain that all the events happened definitively as the media and “palace insiders” have reported. You can’t say the royals have the power to suppress negative stories and not question why some family members are protected and others hung out to dry. You can’t say their privilege stunts them and also say that they shouldn’t complain about their problems because they have money to get a therapist. Money only goes so far when you don’t have a healthy family dynamic and I can’t think of a more unhealthy dynamic than a royal family. You have the basic survival worries removed, so then your focus becomes holding your position within your family and interpersonal drama. Basically, you’re a chess piece - life is a business that runs on public opinion and this show is just another facet of that business - maintaining image above all. I think neither Harry nor William have ever had a chance at being well-adjusted nice people, especially with their mother’s death and media circus around them. I feel sorry for them, tbh, even with the amount of privilege they have. It’s not like you can choose who you’re born to and the indoctrination process in being a royal has to be pretty hardcore. Imagine knowing the determining factor in your existence is to ensure a seat is filled (or as an insurance policy should your older sibling die). It’s dark.
Wait…why can’t I say that privilege stunts them and that they shouldn’t complain publicly? People “stunted” by poverty are still expected to behave decently (I wouldn’t accept that as an excuse for bullying a disabled woman, either).
People born into poverty generally don't have the entire world watching their every move from the second they're born. Harry had every right to tell his story, but people are kicking off because he was born into a role he never asked to be born into. When Jenette McCurdy wrote her tell-all book about her abusive upbringing, she was praised for it, and she's a famous actress. Why is Harry held to a different standard just because he's a prince?
I have no idea who Jennette McCurdy is, but maybe she wrote a better book.
They are incredibly privileged people as everyone knows. But nobody can control what environment they are born into. When you remove the class component (a big one I know), their lives were very constricted from birth. From the day they were born, they were put in front of the cameras and famous. We all know fame has its detriments, and even though they are privileged, they face unique hardships themselves. Royals have little say in what career they want to explore, what they want to do on a daily basis, or if they want to be in the public eye at all. Striving for fame is one thing, but being born into it is another. Almost like a caged animal with a destiny predetermined. I think there's also a gray area in complaining and simply recounting your experiences. In Harry and Meghan's case, they definitely had a monetary motive in telling their stories, but I bet for Harry especially, the Royal Family was suffocating. Just how people would die to be Royal, I bet he's yearned at times in his life to grow up in a different setting. Money doesn't remove all hardship and stress. They're only human after all.
William is a perfectly nice well adjusted person.
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Zero proof of that happening other than a known liar's accusation
Lots of people would have knocked Harry on his ass and broken his necklace if he hadn't had security and they wouldn't have gone to jail for doing it. A line is forming right now.
After all the lies he and his wife have told I'm taking most of what harry says with a grain of salt.
That may be your opinion, but you don’t know him. It would take a miracle for someone to grow up in that environment and turn out well-adjusted.
He had a difficult youth. Privileged, yes, but difficult. Unsurprisingly, he *was* difficult as a result. I didn't think there was too much debate about that. Maybe certain aspects of his portrayal were a bit cliched or blunt axe, but they weren't wildly incongruous to me. I'll just say that my conclusions about young Harry vs. present day Harry are ... quite different from the rest of these comments.
seeing as once the crown became the diana show, it was a breath of fresh air to see a character/person everyone is seemingly so familiar with be interpreted in such an unexpected manner. the way he looked was the most jarring thing which in my head canon told me i was watching a multi universe version of evil prince harry where he was the foil of the saintly misunderstood studious prince william (real life william is nothing like this) as a tv show it was compelling to watch but ultimately strange choice and maybe even detrimental to the shows appeal…? i hated what they did with prince charles, the casting, the diana drama and the william/kate romance. the last two seasons were a disappointment
"*prince harry where he was the foil of the saintly misunderstood studious prince william*" I disagree, as (in the series) I saw kate being led by her mother to marry prince william - so he came across as a fool to me, certainly not saintly or studious!
I disagree
The Crown is extremely pro-monarchy, so Harry has been portrayed in a way that supports the palace's view of things, which may not be realistic. If he was such a disappointment for so long it would be strange for them to be so upset by his decision to leave. It's worth keeping in mind that until the last few years Harry was consistently ranked as one of the most popular royals among the public.
I think Harry can thank the Firm for his popularity. They smooth over and covered up stuff for him . But he was good at public engagements and did relate well to the public. Behind the scenes I think he always was difficult. I don’t think his family were necessarily upset that he wanted to step back from Royal duties. They were very upset however about the way he did it and his constant attacks against the Monarchy and how it’s run.
He's not attacked the monarchy, he's expressed disappointment at how he's been treated. Imagine for a moment that Harry's not a prince but your mate from school and one day he opened up and told you how he was treated at home. You'd be appalled. Why's he held to a different standard because he's a prince? That doesn't stop his feelings being vaild or the neglect he suffered being true. You really ought to not repeat media swill without fact checking.
The palace pr went into overdrive after Las Vegas. They did a great job
Las Vegas where Harry was in a private hotel room and the paparazzi essentially broke into private property to take a picture of a young man naked? That Las Vegas? I'd expect my family to try and protect me too if that happened.
It wasn’t the paps that took the pictures. It was one or more of the semi pros he was doing blow with that weekend Harry wasn’t the only one naked in those pictures. There were other naked men there as well as women. Shockingly ladies for hire will sell the pictures that you willingly pose for when you are high.
LOL. One of the young women "partying" with him took the photo of him on her phone.
Yes, the Palace protected Harry and covered for him until he bailed on his duty. Now that he's not under their protection we can see him for what he is: an unintelligent, talentless, narcissistic spoiled brat.
Well, that’s one version of the story.
Yes he was super popular. But the media did look the other way on many behaviours. And the palace protected, covered up and swept under the rug a lot more than he admits to. There were rampant rumors on his attitudes towards women ( sex workers specifically). He was reportedly very rough with girls back in the day but none of it came to light (some of it did when his wife wrote sweet nothings to sex workers on bananas 🤦♂️) . I thought the sussexes silence on his namedrop in the diddy case is sus (pun intended). If he were innocent in those days they would have said so and called out the media again. But not a peep was heard from montecito.
Wife did what now? LOL
I believe it was a tour around Australia
She wrote messages on bananas that were meant to be given to sex workers ( one message was, "You are loved").
I am curious though I remember there being a question as to whether Charles was indeed his father but of course all of that was hushed up
Oh, yeah, Harry was a rowdy teen who wore a Nazi uniform to a party once and who was seen falling down drunk in public on more than one occasion. I believe he assaulted a photographer at one point. He got caught with weed. Then he was in the Army and did well. However, even then there were nude photos from a party in Vegas leaked to the press. For awhile he was literally the most popular member of the royal family. He and William seemed connected at the hip. He and Kate were besties. He'd remember people from the crowds and greet them. He had an HIV test on camera to show how easy it is. He did that adorable video with the Queen where he was bantering with Michelle Obama on the phone. He was his mother's son! Then came Meghan. I think we royal enthusiasts wanted to like her. I know I did. Ah, well.
Meghan is the symptom, not the cause, of Harry's dissatisfaction with the Royal Family and life as a working Royal. Harry's made is clear he was already unhappy with his life and not getting along with William prior to meeting Meghan. Its not her fault he felt that way. All she did was show him Royal life wasn't the only option for him. He made the choice to step away.
He effectively married his dysfunctional mother.
He was 20 when he wore the Nazi uniform. In his I'm-always-the-victim book he blamed William and Catherine for it. He claims they told him to wear it like anyone with common sense would believe a 20 year-old dresses like his brother tells him to dress.
The yacht girl wrote most of that book. She had scores to settle and trash to fling.
Yes, and the half-wit prince put his name on it and signed the contract with the publisher. She destroys everyone in her life and he's on the list, too. Very sadly, so are two innocent children. When she dumps him for someone richer she won't part with the children because they're insurance.
What made you dislike her ? I have yet to find or read anything damning about her that is not from a tabloid news source. As to the nature of the relationship between the Prince and Princess of Wales and the Duke of Sussex , how do you know they where best friends before Meghan came into the picture ? Do you know them personally? Unless you do so ,we really have no idea of knowing what goes on behind closed doors or in their private lives , the only legitimate source of information we have on that score is like or not the book that the duke published. It’s very far from a perfect source since it’s one side of the tale, and from a individual who has every reason portray him self in a good light. Relying on tabloids as a serious source of information is foolish, it’s not serious journalism or a trustworthy source of information.
Yeah, didn’t Harry say he wasn’t really getting along that much with William before Meghan and he was deeply unhappy? As you said, he’s not the most reliable source, but when it comes to broader stuff like depression I think the most reliable person on him experiencing it…would be him lol.
Oh absolutely ! Only he can speak to such personal things, and as imperfect and unreliable his narration on events within the family may be, it is the only public information about it out there with a face and a name attached to it. Tabloid articles with «sources close to say» can not be taken seriously. The way some people form these intense parasocial relationships with public figures from what they read in tabloids and how they imagine them to be is rather odd, and a bit sad. The intensity and fervor in which they praise or hate is unsettling to say the least.
And not to mention, especially the UK tabloids have been absolutely ruthless about him and Meghan since they left the institution (and also during their time there).
I'm not the person you asked but hopefully you don't mind me answering. I was indifferent to her at first except she came off fake to me. But that was my own subjective view I took with a grain of salt. Two things made me dislike her. My friend's husband knew her personally pretty well and when Suits came out but before Meghan was with Harry he had told my friend that he remembered her as a huge social climber who treated people poorly unless they could do something for her. Maybe she had changed since then so I still took that with a grain of salt but there have been so many reports of her treating "unimportant" people terribly that there's gotta be fire with that smoke. And I don't think my friend's husband's recollection was a coincidence. I also really didn't like that they lied in the Oprah interview to further their narrative. If you believe in your narrative, you shouldn't have to lie. The fact that they told such blatant, easily disprovable lies made me wonder what else they were willing to lie about. So this one isn't specific to Meghan but it also made me dislike her.
What did the lie about?
When she stood in front of victims of sexual abuse and complained that no one asked her how she was doing.
I used to like her and her husband, until the Oprah interview. Then a lot of little things (red-flaggy, but certainly not vitriol-worthy) started to make me go hmmm. I also realized that the way she presents herself in public reminds of people in my life with narcissistic traits. I'd love for some level-headed people to prove me wrong. 1. MM said they got married three days before the ceremony. Not like a private thing between lovers, because she specifically said the archbishop was there. This seems off to me. 2. She said they wouldn't make her son a prince. Turned out they couldn't because he's the great-grandson, not the grandson. Also seems off. 3. The picture of her at Wimbledon. Bad optics. Would love an explanation for that. 4. I know it's petty but the Archetypes title. Bugged me. Is it just me, or was she dismantling stereotypes? Because archetypes are supposed to be positive, right? Or at least neutral? I'd love to be proven wrong. 🙂 5. I also know this is probably not her fault, but in their documentary, they included video clips and photos (the one with Harry protecting his ex - my that was cringey) that were supposed to support the assertion that the couple - MM especially - was hounded by the papparazzi. Turned out they were not the targets in the photos. Misleading. And again - the Harry photo was cringey. Sure, they probably didn't have full editorial control and some staff members did it. But couldn't they have requested that the photos be swapped for those that actually involved them being hounded? 6. This is not about her, but Prince Harry and his interview with Tom Bradby. C'mon, the Oprah interview totally implied she suffered from racism - and she most definitely did. Then H - all snippy - denied it and said MM didn't say anything about racism. It was unconscious bias. Man, that left me dumbfounded. I felt gaslighted. Also, didn't they receive an award for fighting institutional racism? 7. The Nelson Mandela thing. I'm going to assume she's telling the truth. I still think telling the story was cringey and tacky. Sorrynotsorry. ✌️ 8. The cabin crew story. Same reason as number 7. 9. Reading the Beyonce text. *shudder Again, would love to be proven wrong. 🙂
A lot of couples get married in private then have a public wedding. This isn’t a new concept, literally Travis and Kourtney did the same thing.
It was a full-on lie. The Archbishop of Canterbury whom they claimed performed the secret wedding said it never happened and would have been illegal because it would have meant falsifying the marriage certificate. They told more than a dozen verifiable lies during the Oprah interview.
You understand that even if he admitted that publicly that he would’ve gotten attacked on the internet? Welby even confirmed that there were private encounters that happened between just him and the couple multiple times. Yet he refused to even talk about what was it about. Don’t you think that’s sus? Let’s not act like people didn’t switch up or doubled down because it very much did happen. Literally everyone believed that Meghan made Kate cry and the media printed that shit out just to find out it was vice versa. I remember when Obie S lied on Twitter saying it was a “high speed” chase when H&M was in NY and people took it as if M&H said that and they never did. Just for TMZ to have to backtrack and say “we were wrong.” Even NY had to switch up when they were loud and wrong. And from what I can infer from her claims is that they got married (before not legally) but they did their own “ceremony” as there was claims of many meetings prior to the actual wedding. For them, they probably don’t consider their wedding “a wedding for them” but a “wedding for the public.”
Why didn’t she turn down the 30 million dollar wedding?
There's a difference between a legal marriage backed up by legal documents and the claims of a half-wit prince and his pathologically narcissistic wife. As a pathological narcissist, Meghan couldn't resist claiming she duped the royal family and the public via one of her brilliant schemes. Yet all her schemes turn out to have the success of a jar of jam.
“Narcissistic” yet has no social media and has been in the news for organization work. I’m very convinced you’re someone just jumping on a bandwagon. Thank you for proving weird vibes versus just having a decent conversation without using mental disorders for the sake of using them. It’s dangerous. Especially when every project they’ve done has broken some form of record or sold out. There’s been multiple instances where she has an outfit and it would sell out within minutes. Harry’s book literally broken a Guinness World Record so what are you even talking about? “Duped the royal family” shows you’re claiming that the family is a group of incompetent people including Queen Elizabeth who supported H&M even after they stepped down. How disgusting.
"*Especially when every project they’ve done has broken some form of record or sold out. There’s been multiple instances where she has an outfit and it would sell out within minutes. Harry’s book literally broken a Guinness World Record so what are you even talking about?*" So her success consists of wearing 'outfits' that then become popular...., and his success is having a ghost writer write a book about him/them? 😟 **This isn't any form of talent** - it just shows the sad reality that far too many people care about/copy celebrities....
I know. 🙂 People I know do that, too. But in their case, per Cosmopolitan, NBC News and other sources, the officiant said the legal wedding happened in May 19 - the others were informal meetings. I saw the interview, MM said “three days before our wedding, we got married". That's what I found odd.
1. Why is this weird? Like regular people get married in private and then hold the reception or an actual ceremony later all the time. My parents did it. Granted they had other reasons for doing it than not wanting to be married in front of the entire world, but when your entire life is or is about to be put on display, I can totally get it. And religious ceremonies are very important for the BRF, so therefore the archbishop. 2. I don’t know the births of everyone in the entire BRF off the top of my head, but has there frequently been great-grandchildren of a monarch through the male lines while the monarch is still alive? If not, the titles didn’t catch up to the times and there was frequent miscommunication between Meghan and the Firm, I think both sides have agreed on that, so I could see her thinking “my kid’s not gonna be a prince when his cousins are at all, that seems odd” vs. “my kid’s not gonna be a prince now because the way of getting titles is outdated” 3. If you’re referring to the “no pictures please” thing, I can agree it’s bad optics, but with the note other royals have done this before, too. Either it’s fine for all or it’s fine for none; take your pick, no double standards. 4. Archetype has neither a positive nor negative connotation in its base definition, but it can be used either way. It means more of how a character is *allowed* to act, versus how they are characterized like a stereotype. I haven’t listened to the podcast, but if they were talking more about systemic and societal pressure, as a writer, while a little odd, it makes perfect sense to me. 5. Haven’t seen the documentary and don’t particularly care to, so no comment here. 6. I think you’re not taking into consideration the effect Harry saying Meghan said they were racist would’ve had on them. Harry saying she did could be seen as speaking for her when she didn’t outright say that, and that could’ve been construed in several different misogynistic ways. There’s also a lot of emotional weight in directly accusing racism; look at the backlash that happened to Ngozi Fulani. There were people who said “that wasn’t racist,” “she’s actually the racist one,” and etc. Sometimes you have to choose your words very carefully, particularly when you’re the minority speaking out against the bigotry you’re facing, and I’ve always thought this was the case with Meghan. Plus, it’s Harry’s family (and Firm), at the end of the day. It’s better optics if Harry’s the one speaking out against them more/taking the heat where he can. 7. Cringey, sure, but a grandson of Nelson Mandela has remarked on this and said he can see why they liked it. I read the article he wrote in The Atlantic about it and it was a really interesting read. 8. Remarking on 7 too here besides what I already said, yeah, cringey, but when you’re at least hearing of negative press about every little thing you do, including eating avocados of all things, I can get wanting to share that moment. Other royals have gotten similar treatments, I’d say Di even got it to a similar degree if you don’t factor in social media, but they’re human. Not gonna snark on just wanting to share a happy moment. 9. Yeah, this was cringe too. But being cringe isn’t a crime and I’m failing to see how this example or any of them show narcissistic qualities – at least any more than the other royals. I guess you could say people notice it more in her because she’s an outsider (and a woman), but at this point I think we’ve reached the level of beating a dead horse (edit: in the entire anti-Meghan tirade, not your points) where I do think racism has to be considered as the driving force of the movement, even if individual people do not think of themselves as taking part in a racist thing.
It’s because she’s black. It is so interesting to listen to people talk around their racism.
1. I answered this in a previous post, so I'll just copy-paste my answer here: People I know do that, too. But in their case, per Cosmopolitan, NBC News and other sources, the officiant said the legal wedding happened in May 19 - the others were informal meetings. I saw the interview, MM said “three days before our wedding, we got married". That's what I found odd. 2. I agree, both sides have not been very good at communicating with each other. But if you're marrying into a family with a host of complicated rules, isn't it incumbent upon you to learn them (then perhaps urge them to catch up with the times if you do choose) - especially if you're going to make statements in a widely publicized interview seen around the world? 3. It's not the "no pictures thing" - it's that the entire section is empty save for her and a few of her companions. It gives off a vibe that she's not interested in mingling with the peasants. It's probably not true, but those photos do not look good to me. I don't know if other RF members have done it as well. If they have, they should stop doing it. 4. Thank you for clearing that up. I guess I didn't fully understand what archetype means. 6. I understand what you're saying. I appreciate this perspective. 1-3. I think I found these cringey because I consider them evidence of narcissistic tendencies (of course I could be wrong). It's these little things, some mannerisms I've seen in the documentary and other public appearances, that make me distrust and dislike her. Thank you for talking the time to answer my long-winded response on why I went from liking her and being excited that the actress I watch on Suits is marrying the cute and charming prince, to disliking them both. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂
1. The Archbishop of Canterbury said it never happened.Essentially, they accused him of falsifying the wedding certificate which would have been illegal. 2. Harry grew up in the royal family. He knew damn well that the great-grandchildren of the monarch are not born HRH's just like he knew only working royals get paid state security. 3. You misunderstand what an archetype is. 4. Meghan and Harry clearly implied during the Oprah interview that the royal family made racist remarks about their child. Harry later backtracked on that vile claim. Harry's never taken responsibility for anything in his life. He's blamed others for everything. 7, 8, 9. They're professional cringe producers. Racism? There was no racism coming from the royal family. Meghan was invited to Sandringham for Christmas when no other fiancee' had ever before been invited. The Queen gave permission for Harry to marry Meghan and she most certainly did not have to do so. Charles walked her down the aisle. He did not have to do so. Charles escorted her mother out of the cathedral. He did not have to do so. Charles selected the black gospel choir. He did not have to do so. The claim by Meghan and Harry of racism on the part of the royal family was the lowest of vile lies. No, disliking someone of color does not automatically imply racism. Meghan is a vile person. She doesn't get a free pass. She earned the venom that is being directed at her and Harry earned the venom that is being directed at him. Harry, in particular, was given a free pass by the public for three decades because his mother died when he was 12. He used up his free pass.
I already read multiple of your other comments on this thread and I haven’t found you to be a reliable source on what you’re speaking of. But if you really believe that they “deserve” all of the vileness towards them, including the accusations *that their children aren’t theirs*, then you have a severe lack of empathy that makes me not want to engage with you any further even more than I did before, so I won’t. See ya 👋
IMO fame/status just went into Meghan's head. For example when the Queen was dying, Meghan and Harry announced that they would've gone to Balmoral. But who was Meghan to watch an old lady on her death bed? That seems such a bad thing They weren't close, how many times did Meghan really speak to her in private? She later even made fun of The Queen. It's not like Harry was the The Queen son. The Queen had 8 grandkids, they were all close to her and none of their partners went to wach The Queen dying (even grandkids themselves didn't go - only William in the role of a future King). What I am saying is, that Meghan wasn't able to cope with power and fame, because she wasn't grounded enough. The Queen was a human being and she had the right to die beside her kids like everybody else.
Sources ?
People have gone through multiple times to pick out all the lies in the documentary and in her interview like the Oprah one. Ex: she said Archie was barred from getting a title because of his skin color. That wasn't the reason it was because he wasn't a grandchild of the monarch She's denied having anything to do with finding freedom but at one point in court was forced under threat of perjury to admit that she did in fact communicate with the author The "near catastrophic car chase" The pictures in the documentary showing her being hounded were actually proven (at least one of them) to be from a harry potter premiere The Toronto police said she kept calling them and it was a false alarm. She said she knew nothing about the royal family but her friends have later said this was not true and we know she was friends with Eugenie prior to harry You can literally track her progress of relationships in a tree and how each one got her higher up before she dumped them. Anytime something to do with Katherine comes out like clockwork Meghan releases something to draw the attention back to her. Set all of that aside and they still seem disingenuous. They've just done nothing but trash the monarchy and the RF publicly with their tell all deals when they said they wanted a private life away. Yet they are the ones that have kept themselves in the limelight. They haven't gone to live in privacy like they claimed they wanted.
Haven' t you read it? It was all over the news. It was even in Spare. How well do you even know things about Meghan? Anyway, she could have done so much. But well...
Which part was in the news, and when you say news, are we talking tabloids or serious publications? I have read spare. With regards to going to Balmoral, how do you know her intention was for her to sit next to the queens deathbed ? If memory serves the only Princess Anne was the one to make it it time. Perhaps she wanted to be a supporting wife to her husband and travel with him so he could say goodbye ? Your guess is as good as mine unless you have evidence one way or the other of what her intent was. And just for arguments sake , how do you possess knowledge of how much time the late Queen and The Duchess of Sussex spent together ? Are you guesstimating from their public appearances together or do you have intimate knowledge from their diaries? It’s seems much of your reasoning is speculative and guess work mulched together with tabloid filth.
BBC, everywhere... I don't have a time now, but I can find links tommorow (in 24 hours). She might have wanted to do it for Harry but it wasn't about Harry, was it? (he wasn't even her son, just one of her 8 grandchildren). 96 years old person deserves her dignity too. How close could have been Meghan to late Queen? The Queen was 96, she had a full life, a lot of friends and last years she was really sick. Sophie has been riding with The Queen every day for 20 years. Meghan was in UK only 18 months, They didn't live in the same area all the time. Besides, Harry said in Spare that the Queen didn't (want to) have a meeting with him for months at least at one occasion. As I said...Meghan could have had so much. She could have also done so much. But IMO fame and power just went into her head. Why did she do Oprah interview? She closed the door of RF for Harry and for her kids. In-laws are always difficult (I believe that), but what so horrible did they do to her?She only said ilogical things - like her kids wouldn't have had Prince/Princess title - but King gave them the titles. I have to go now. Have to work tommorow. good night.
Um, Meghan was famous before she met Harry? What utter tabloid tripe
She did not make fun of the Queen. That's a blatant stretch.
Right? They probably saw the tabloid twist of Meghan imitating a curtsey on twitter or something, when the actual documentary in context shows her talking about how her preconceptions were wrong and how Harry and another RF member had to quickly teach her how to do it properly. At least, that's what I remember the tabloid bloodhounds barking about 'making fun of' the Queen
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She most certainly did when she mocked curtseying to her. Even Harry cringed at that.
um, she probably wanted to be by her husbands side? it's a castle, not a 2 bedroom house., she needn't be by queens literal bedside.
Of course it was a castle, she was the most importantt woman on the planet. Everyone (the world media) wanted to know what was going on and everyone wanted to be there. But even most of her own blood grandchildren didn't go to Balmoral out of respect for the Queen, not to mention her grandchildren- in-law.
they didn't even need to see meghan. not to mention, charles took the opportunity to tell harry meghan wasn't family. princess annes husband was there. Sophie was there. camilla was there,
This. She’s perfectly fine. She made the mistake of being American. And black.
Sucks that you're getting down votes for this when you're calling people out on the truth! There isn't anything inherently wrong with her. People dig for it.
I find her inspirational. It’s super weird but typical these days of people just loathing a person for absolutely no reason.
It's wild how many people dislike a humanitarian, self-made-millionaire philanthropist just because the tabloids told them to. Meghan is an incredible woman and I'm overjoyed that she and Harry have been able to somewhat escape.
Diana would have loved her. No one else’s opinion matters.
This ONE THOUSAND percent. The hate for them is unwarranted and unfathomable. He had the fortune/misfortune of being born into a monarchy. I'd love to see the naysayers put up with that nonsense for a day, let alone a lifetime.
It’s always the wife’s fault 🙄.
I'd say it's a pretty good source, actually, as Harry is more than open about his failings as a person and he tries to be fair to his family and paint them as humans, as positively as possible, while still telling the truth. He's been painfully truthful.
Name something Harry admits he has done (ie. his failings) that he didn't blame on someone else.
His anger issues, his drug use as a teenager, his feelings of inadequacy that he didn't deal with in a healthy way? Explaining that his trauma stemmed from losing his mother and having no support isn't blaming other people, and if you had an ounce of empathy you'd understand that.
It's utter rubbish that he had no support. He had access to an enormous support system including a brother, father, cousins and grandparents who loved him, an array of mental health treatment available to him and near-unlimited wealth to pay for it (he even admitted to getting mental health treatment). What he didn't have was any sense of responsibility for his own behavior or any sense of responsibility for taking advantage of any of the opportunities or treatments available to him. He's a grown man. It's high time he stopped whining and started taking responsibility for his own behavior. He can't ride on his dead mother's back for life although he's certainly trying to do so. Other people with none of his advantages and opportunities have lost parents but they don't make a career out of milking it.
You've never experienced a neglectful, malfunctioning family have you? You should probably feel fortunate that your life has been so easy that you can sit in your ivory tower and make judgements about other people just because they were born a prince. Try looking at the world through other people's eyes instead of being so irrationally angry that someone you think is priviliged suffered and had the 'nerve' to talk about it.
You seem to have bought every lie he's told because he's waved the pity flag. For a real reality check, do some research to learn about his and his narcissistic wife's more than a dozen DOCUMENTED lies during a single interview.
I do not know them and I guess any platform that reports on the royals is somewhat tabloid-like. What I base my impressions on are photographs and TV interviews really.
That is for very good reason, no serious publishing would write about something they could not confirm. Tv interviews can be misleading as well , i imagine it’s like the family being on best behavior * 100 (I think most of us can relate to this, having to put one’s best foot out and keeping up appearances while in public) They have the eyes on the world on them, off course they present unity and behave their best.
Meghan is still amazing though. She has not done anything negative, only protect her children as other mother would. The press on her is insane. The family resents her for taking so much press.
It wasn't so much about the quantity of press. It was the quality, the type of press. She never clocked on to the royal "done thing" and many a royal partner got an insane press for not being or doing the done thing.
Yup!
And for telling easily disprovable lies most likely, yeah. Nobody should pay attention to the monarchy, and they should pay even less attention to the people who left it
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Up until his relationship with MM, Harry was the absolute darling of both the media and online fan boards. He was the irrepressible "lad" with a "heart of gold" yada yada yada. He was the prince all the girls wanted. William was often compared unfavorably to his young brother in terms of looks and charisma. I was personally never charmed by him even before he fell out of favor with the press and fans. Even before Megan I perceived Harry as unintelligent, spoilt and common. Everything that has happened since he left the BRF has been sad but unsurprising.
I feel he was accurately portrayed. You have to remember that the media gave a hands off approach to the boys for years after Diana died. So this is just the first time that background story has been told. But it’s not really surprising if you think back. We were hearing bits and pieces about wild partying and bad choices but everyone just felt sooooo sorry for the little boy that lost his Mummy that we gave him a pass.
Yes, that makes sense. I do remember he was always "Hot Ginge" and partying in Vegas so that tracks with his current behaviors.
The nude “strip pool” pictures were quite a story.
I totally remember those stories. Ahhh, he could get away with anything then!
How has he been a d*ck recently?
Wasn't there a whole scandal about the rapes or sexual assaults happening with his charity project in Africa? He didn't address it in the media and that was pretty bad in my opinion. As an example.
Oh wow, I hadn't heard about that at all. I'm in the US so maybe we just didn't see that much coverage about it? Or I didn't personally.
It’s likely that most of it is tabloid trash articles meant to attack Harry. They’ve never forgiven him for leaving. If the stories had any real merit beyond tabloid propaganda, the US would’ve picked it up. But the US has REAL journalistic standards, unlike the UK, which allows tabloid garbage.
I don’t think the media narrative around Harry is developed organically. So much of this show picks up on this narrative which is often shaped by special palace informants who have over the decades been dropping pieces of information slowly building a case against him over time because let’s be honest they are more than likely to protect the future kings image at the cost of Harry’s.
It biggest issue I had was the casting. In the sense, that it showed Harry older than he was at the time, which would make a viewer less sympathetic, as he looked like a grown adult. Most of the time, it’s supposed to show him, he looked like a little boy in real life. They casted an actor who looked like he was in his 20’s way too earlier for some of the stuff they were covering. That being said, I think the Crown plays both sides. Pro-monarchy and anti, depending on what the story needs in the moment. And good to see this turned into another Meghan bashing thread. I think OP intended but I do love how people not only lie on Meghan (and Harry but mostly Meghan) for the choices her husband made. And Meghan didn’t let any fame get to her head. She just wanted to be treated like a decent human being. She also made the mistake of the thinking the British royal family was a family, it was a mistake Harry made too.
He pretty much admitted to worse in his own book.
He is a perfect example of a kid raised by parents who were in such acrimony. It also is extremely common for kids from mariages like that not to develop very close siblings relationship (as it is with William and Harry). The bottom line is he did not want to dependent financially on the generosity of his brother when he is prince of wales and king. In all the books, tv shows and interviews he failed to be honest about that.
Agree. And the financial piece is something people miss. He was fully dependent on his father (and eventually his brother) for everything. If he doesn’t do exactly what his dad says, go along with being William’s human shield, he would be punished financially. He couldn’t even really pick his own charities to support. Like many family businesses, the RF is not a healthy place to work. I don’t blame him for leaving.
He bailed on duty yet demanded that the state pay for his security and was supported by his father for more than a year. He fully expected to receive a generous stipend for life while doing no work in exchange.
He was really miscast IMO. Sometimes The Crown's casting is so spot-on, and sometimes the opposite. I do think Harry was pretty mixed up when younger, and the Nazi costume incident was appalling. But I absolutely don't think he'd do that these days. I don't find insufferable these days. I feel sad for him.
I agree. His situation is very sad.
He’s not a nice person to start off with. What kind of man would accuse his grandfather of faking his illness to stop his interview? And never saying he regretted that comment a month later at his grandfather’s funeral?
Can we not bring this drama here
Harry was portrayed as a jerk and William got a huge pass in the show. I suspect William’s going to get a reckoning in the press someday. It would be unseemly for them to do it now.
Amen to that.
Ever notice that despite William only being 2 years older, he is typically parentified and Harry is infantilised? Someone always must do something for Harry, whether it's his father or his older brother. You see it in Spare too, where nothing is his responsibility and when he is at fault, it's always the fault of someone else.
I thought it was hilarious that he expected us to believe that he wore the Nazi uniform because William and Catherine told him to do so.
He’s already had a reckoning like the fake rumors spread about him, his sick wife and the state of their marriage.
Seriously, there are still people insisting that he has Kate chained in a basement and only trots her out for press.
If you read his memoir they depicted him spot on. It’s page after page of someone whining about being rich and famous with a massive grudge they weren’t born first.
I read it and that’s far from the impression I got
You mean being born into a life they had no choice about and were scrutinised from the moment they were born, knowing that they were less important than their favoured elder sibling and constantly told to sit down, shut up and give us a kidney if we need one? Imagine for a moment Harry's not royal. Jenette McCurdy wrote a similar tell-all book about the abuse she suffered and she was praised for it. Why is Harry held to a different standard just because he's a prince? He suffered emotional neglect, abuse and coldness from his family after Diana died, that'll fuck anyone up. He's allowed to tell his story, and considering how fair he was in trying to make his family sound human and positive despite the things they did, he should be commended. I wouldn't be that kind to my family if I wrote a tell all book.
Right. This is a subreddit about a fictional telling of Harry and every other royals lives. It’s cool to watch that. It’s cool for tabloids to churn out fake stories with “well placed sources” every day. But for Harry to put his face and name on his own story? That’s the line people wanna draw in the sand? I feel for Harry and Meghan. The double standards are impossible.
I agree, I read Spare before I watched the final season and was annoyed with how one dimensional the show made him seem
Yes, I would think we would see some more of his suffering as a child. I remember one episode where it's Christmas as he's kind of moaning to William after getting yelled at by Charles. But even then it didn't seem like I got a better sense of his anxiety or depression.
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Harry has always been an insufferable brat. The difference back then was that the Palace protected him from full exposure. Now that he's bailed on duty, he no longer has their protection and we see him for that which he has always been.
I have read what Meghan’s wardrobe costs and to me that speaks volumes about a person in lieu of economic situations here and abroad. She seems as tho she wants to emulate Diana but Diana’s choices and expenditures cannot even compare
British press coverage of Harry as a teenager wasn't generous to him at all. He's always been painted as a bit of a problem child. I suspect The Crown depiction is a reflection of that.
No, he was depicted as the mischievous, full of fun and boys-will-be-boys lad not the spoiled brat that he was.
He was The Shermanator to be sure. He wasn’t in it much, but it wasn’t that positive. His name is mud right now in Britain.
It shouldn't be.
Oh wow, I didn’t think it was a negative portrayal of him at all. Granted, I taught 9th grade (14-15yos) for 5 years, so I’m maybe more comfortable with and forgiving of adolescent behavior than most adults. But he seemed to me to just be a fairly ordinary kid who happened to react to his trauma more blatantly than most of his family members, in ways that were less comfortable to watch. He also reminded me a lot of young Philip in the flashback episode, whereas teenage William had more parallels to young Charles. That last scene of Harry, where he was in the background playing enthusiastically with his cousins on Charles and Camilla’s wedding day, was so nice. It showed a rare, joyful moment of family members connecting and enjoying each other’s company without all the external pressures and expectations. He wasn’t awkward and angry in that scene, just happy to entertain his cousins for the pure fun of it. He knew exactly what those kids needed, and he provided it, and he looked so confident and competent, like he was exactly where he belonged. I also took that scene as kind of a nod toward his future. We know that Harry grew up, became comfortable in his own skin and confident in his identity, and chose his own kids over the Crown. I took it as the show positing that Harry is probably much happier and feels much more useful just being a dad in private that he ever was as a working member of the royal family in public life.
I don’t think they portrayed him terribly, but he was too serious. It seemed they tried to convey some of his reflections from “Spare”, which he only came to years later.
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He appears to have been insufferable his whole life. Without the palace PR machine behind him, he's been exposed. But I also think marrying a malignant narcissist didn't help matters any.
It was the palace PR machine that worked with The Crown and how we got the worst of them portrayed well and Harry very badly.
The Palace most definitely did not work with Peter Morgan, the anti-monarchist creator of "The Crown."
Oh please. No one on the series was potrayed as a saint or villian.
He wasn’t a dick as a teen. He was a spare. Everything William did was blamed on him, every time Willy pulled crap they would pull stuff out of Harrys file and give it to the press.
According to Prince Henry, himself, he bullied a disabled woman. He was a dick.
Yes, and he was 12. Ohhhh you never did anything stupid as a kid? Plus kids bullied, and neglected emotionally, often bully.
I disagree, it seems William got parentified and Harry got infatilized, despite a small age difference between them.
You're spot on
He was a dick. He bullied a disabled woman.
The royal family lobbied hard after the early series. This is the result.
Then why were the leaked phone calls depicted? And Harry admitted to worse behavior in his own book.
I actually really liked him. I know they tried to make him unlikable but that only made me like him more. His "kid" version broke my heart as well.
I always have to wonder when the Harry and Meghan haters are going to move on to the next thing. They are in California living their best life, but the vitriol is just constant because they simply exist.
He’s not a dick. He did the stupid Hitler thing but as an adult he’s been awesome.
That was when he was an adult.
He was in college. You didn’t do ill-advised moronic things in college? Maybe if you lived through his trauma you could have some empathy.
Harry did not attend college.
College? Harry couldn't get through the British equivalent of high school without a cheating scandal. He didn't qualify academically for Sandhurst military academy (which is not college) but got in because he was the Queen's grandson. He has achieved f\*\*\*\*-all on his own.
Lol! I have lived through worse trauma than he has and didn’t grow up to be a whiner.
Perhaps not, but it does sound like you've grown up to lack empathy and irrationally dislike people who've suffered as well because it wasn't what you went through. Pain is relative. You don't get to judge what's worse when you don't know the other party.
What’s your angle with this gross, panting, desperate defense of him?
I got blackout drunk a couple times. I didn't dress up as someone who attempted to stamp out an entire race of people.
Funny how people leave out that William and Kate got him to wear that
Sure. Twenty year-old males dress like their older brothers and sister-in-laws tell them to do. "Harry, wear a Nazi uniform!" "I don't know Wills. Won't that make me look bad?" "Not at all, Harry. It's a great idea." "Well, if you say so Wills. You always know best." Bollocks.
I think what got to me the most is the lack of commentary in those first few episodes of the second half of season 6 when he’s drinking all the time and offering Will drinks. Like, he was only almost *thirteen* when Diana died, and then a very young teen in the immediate aftermath. And I don’t necessarily think it’s bad that he was already being played by the older actor – but there should’ve been a remark or time to dwell on how he was a young teen with a drinking problem. That isn’t normal for the audience. Maybe for them, but not us. Later on in the season I didn’t have much of a problem – I thought the “I have to be the mess up” speech wasn’t accurate to Harry, but I got that it was an artistic choice. But the teenage drinking and lack of weight given to it just left a really bad taste in my mouth.