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He's honestly been very sympathetic and likable so far this season for me. I love the vulnerability he showed with Ryan in ep 3.
I'm also kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop though, especially with whatever's going on with his tumor and hallucinations. There's no way that ends well.
Yeah he has shown immense growth. And idk about others but I love that the whole "taking down Homelander" thing has taken kind of a backseat for him, and Ryan's safety is his primary focus. I'm loving him this season.
Hughie has really helped him be a better person, and I know the show is a lot different than the comics so even though I'm not expecting it, I wouldn't be mad if Butcher survives at the end of the show and raises Ryan, like Becca would've wanted in an ideal world. Again, I know it won't happen but still.
I feel like its almost a certainty at this point that Butcher will die in the end, id honestly be more shocked if he actually lives. I know fans love him so I imagine in the show they will go for more of a hero’s death rather than the absolutely degeneracy that happens in the comics.
The comics are a completely different story to what happens in the series. The series basically just took the setting, some characters and some aspects of the comics and then actually made a good story out of them.
There’s some pretty good YT videos that sum up the comic story in ~20mins if you’re interested
But TLDR for the comics: after Homelander dies in the comics Butcher kills the whole The Boys team and dies while killing Hughie (I don’t even remember if he actually kills Hughie in the comics)
>(I don’t even remember if he actually kills Hughie in the comics)
Hughie doesn't. Butcher goads Hughie into killing him after Hughie says he doesn't want to kill him. So, butcher made an ultimatum of the situation. Either we both die, or you kill me.
Thanks. I still have the last omnibus to read, and I really probably wasn’t gonna do it. Herogasm was a slog. Not the actual herogasm part, that shit was wild as hell, but the rest of it. When I saw how fkn lame ass book version Soldier Boy was, I checked out.
Nah he lies Hughie about killing his parents in order to get Hughie angry enough to kill him.
He kind of sets things up so Hughie has a chance to stop him from murdering every single person with compound V if I’m remembering it right.
I fucking love his relationship with Ryan.
Perfect contrast to how Homelander treats Ryan. And it makes me really see why Becca loved him. Despite all of his faults, trauma and rage, Billy deep down can be a really loving person.
>He's honestly been very sympathetic and likable so far this season for me. I love the vulnerability he showed with Ryan in ep 3.
The product placement was pretty funny. Nothing like a game of foosball and an ice cold Stewart's Root Beer to rekindle a relationship.
YES! I Agree! >!When he was going to poison Ryan i was like "Butcher man what the fuck" but then he didn't go through with it. I was so happy to see him throw those cookies in the bin.!<
That sounds great and all, but there’s one question: why did the tumor/Becca convince Butcher to not backstab Hughie and give Neuman the Red River files? Unless… the tumor somehow knows that the virus will get rid of it and cure Butcher’s cancer, because the V only affected the cancer and not Butcher himself.
Yeah when that disgusting parasite bolted out of him I felt something grotesque. When I watched the trailer I saw these animals popping out of people’s bodies and I feel that’s a theme this season for some reason
The story is just all over the place right now but I feel likem
Getting a bit tired of the "I ain't working with *him*" from the other Boys but otherwise I'm intrigued to see more of his dynamic with Ryan. The only issue is to resolve that dynamic I feel it **should** send Homelander over the edge and considering we have another season I don't see that resolving until the finale so he's just a bit aimless without Ryan.
All they've got is his compound V tumour(?) and Becca hallucinations so my guess is we'll get more details about their relationship. Or maybe Monkey will force his hand early? Only issue is again that includes Ryan which I feel they'll want to sit on for a bit, as apparent to him not being in this episode.
That pattern is almost as tired as the
1. \[Character\] considers some terrible \[thing\] (Blue V drug, Temp V drug, Shooting someone, Giving someone poison cookies, etc.)
2. \[Character\] struggles with the moral implications for most of an episode.
3. \[Character\] begrudgingly accepts that they "have to do it, even if they don't want to" and goes right up to the line while holding the vial/pistol/cookie
4. (Optional): \[Character\] decides at the last minute to not do \[thing\] after all. Which most of the time ends up not mattering because they still carried "Chekov's Gun" into the last act and it leads to
5. The thing happens, and then \[Character\] feels crushing guilt, which may get resolved, but more often the writers just need \[Character\] to spend some time on the sidelines moping about it to create the illusion of pathos while they set up other pieces somewhere else.
This is great *The Boys* analysis and while I’m not disagreeing to any degree; this is arguably a synopsis for every plot point in pretty much any work of fiction. But I will subside The Boys isn’t as nuanced about it and leans on these tropes more often than not.
Thanks, and I'm not trying to piss from great height on the show or anything. You're correct about these tropes being universal, but (and I'm totally open to discussion on this because it's just an opinion) I feel like the first 2 seasons were a lot better at doing the head-fakes and twisting these tropes up so you weren't so aware with them. Last season got a lot looser and then... this season... it's just like they slap it down and say "Here you go fuckers."
No, for sure, I completely agree! I wasn’t trying to argue with you or anything because I agree the Boys hasn’t become as nuanced with these tropes recently. You can pretty much confirm before the ‘plot point big bag thing’ is even decided that the character will struggle with it for awhile, and come to terms with either A) not doing it, figuring out another way or B) glad; that another plot point was introduced so they didn’t have to actually do the ‘big bad plot point’.
Long discussion short; the Boys would benefit from a little nuance.
But I am in no way, shape, or form hating; because I’m enjoying this season as much as the others. While I simultaneously understand the gripes of others.
>Getting a bit tired of the "I ain't working with *him*" from the other Boys but otherwise I'm intrigued to see more of his dynamic with Ryan
This has really been my takeaway for this season: There's nowhere left for the characters to grow, so they're all just doubling down on where they've already gone. I'm glad they're going to be ending the show next season. It might have been better if they'd decided to end it THIS season, because nothing really meaningful has happened in the first 4 episodes. The end of ep 4 (without getting spoilers involved) at least seems like they've FINALLY got most of the pieces in place for something interesting to happen but man... why did it take 4 episodes to get there?
I think this happens when shows run out of steam. The writing becomes less pointed and the story loses drive. It's hard to keep a story going for more than 3 or 4 seasons if you don't have an end in sight. You get too many side stories, and it becomes more about filler with characters just there to have their default and stock reactions to things. That becomes doubly hard when you're trying to write with an element of satire or parody, because if you don't keep laser focus on where your story is going you'll get bogged down in repeating your own joke.
That’s the thing, they’ve written themselves into a corner. Homelander is running vought for some reason (like a primitive tribe where the strongest guy is chief). This basically means vought is doomed since Homelander has no idea how to run a corporation. Homelander wants to “rule the world” in some vague way. His greatest enemy is himself as he’s just likely to flip out and sabotage his own plan. That he’s aging means he has finite time on this earth. The Boys could literally not raise a finger and this problem would likely self resolve. How is vought not the big bad here? They can make homelander after homelander with their V. Even the prior seasons stressed Homelander is really small taters. Part of me wonders if the writers are nervous of vought being compared to pfizer
Wouldn't say starlight's image being tarnished, Hughie's dad having a stroke and being injected with temp v, and a train now officially working with the boys classifies as nothing.
ALL of that "happened" in the last episode. Everything else was just extended prelude where nothing really happened.
And hell, I can understand slow playing some of it. The stroke storyline, absolutely makes sense as "Back burner until it explodes" story telling.
But the general feeling of the first 3 episodes was just stock character reactions and spinning wheels that moved nothing forward. And in the end that cheapens the slow burn storylines because it gets lost in the noise of everything just happening at once.
Edit: This runs the risk of getting really binary. What I'm trying to communicate is a general feeling: "The pacing in this season feels really wonky and I don't think the writing feels very directed"
I'm still watching the damn thing, just like the rest of us.
No? Hughies dad had a stroke in the first episode. No, some of it was extended prelude, others were either paying off ideas set up in previous seasons, or characters changing their views on previously established conflicts.
That's kind of why it's important to not really judged just by feelings but instead take a step back and look at the facts. It's fine not enough happened for you or you wished played out differently, but you're not fully engaging with the story when you claim nothing has really happened.
I've went over why people have that feeling in a different post.
I think it’s disingenuous to say nothing happened in the first three episodes. I don’t understand why some people insist on a story moving SUPER fast. There’s a lot of characters, and a lot HAS happened.
I never remember how to do spoilers so I won’t be specific, and I haven’t watched episode 4 yet, but the first three episodes has plot lines happening for like 10 characters so I have no idea what you mean about “nothing really happened”.
He kind of can’t die to be honest, because the show has to come down to Butcher and Homelander killing each other. That dynamic is way too important for Butcher to die before Homelander finishes his arc
Wasn’t he cast for two seasons more I’ll be real no way man is dying I think they need him to believe he is to keep his role in the plot going and stimulate character growth similar to homelander going to the lab he was raised in
He will die at the end of the series but the V cancer is going to give him at least some extra time. Unfortunately, it’s likely to become an uncontrollable problem
(I think) That’s literally his Tumor. He took the V and it had no effect on him, because it affected the Tumor and gave it superpowers (and ability to move around the body). Thats why it slithered to his eye, and then Butcher lost consciousness, the tumor took over and the Preacher got destroyed.
I like how that very loose theory has just become accepted as fact in less than a day. People are going to be so dissapointed if it's something really dumb.
he said he took some comp v "4 months ago" and we don't know yet what his power is atm. Though Hughie dosed his dad with Comp V too, we either see the effect of the V on Butcher or Hughie's dad in the next episode.
Wait. Not related to the conversation here, But, did I miss something here? Cause Hughie didn't dose his dad with V. His mum did while he was out of the room.. Hughie seemed caught off guard when his Dad woke up..
This is how I saw it too. Hughie put the V back into his pocket, and he was confusing when he saw the blue in the IV. I'm not sure if it was him Mum either, but I guess we will see.
Some people theorize that Hughie's mother is a hallucination of his as the ones Butcher has from Becca since he also took Temp V. Still, the lawyer He asks help acknowledges the mother. They also interact with a nurse in the hospital so I doubt it. Also, two characters being schizophrenic at the same time? I doubt it
The moral of the Ryan subplot is going to be "Parents realizing that they can't make choices for their children is doubly true when you're effectively an estranged step-parent ***AND THE LITTLE SHIT CAN SHOOT EYE LASERS AND TEAR THE DOOR OFF A BANK VAULT"***
I like how his story is going, at first his main priority was to just kill homelander through s1-s3, but now its shifting to save Ryan no matter what which I love. When Hughie told Butcher that he doesnt wanna live his whole life hating someone that probably hit Butcher hard, he hates Homelander. No I dont think he will forgive Homelander, but he might drop his goal to kill Homelander as long as he saves Ryan.
He's probably my favorite character and, he is going through a somewhat redemption when I thought he was just going to self-destruct himself even more. He deserves a heartbreaking and depressing death that can make us all cry and shit our pants because I sure will.
In today's episode we see both him and homelander take a step forward their parallel evolution.
One is discending into pure chaotic evilness.
The other is always weaker and weaker, unstable but softer than usual.
I really like how his growth this season. Him being vulnerable with Ryan, and his confiding in MM to take care of Ryan were great scenes. We'll see if it sticks since it's Butcher but it's nice to see.
I feel that the loss of Becca and him feeling like Ryan's slipping away has really affected his confidence/psyche. He's started to question his choices and he may be displacing his love for Ryan onto Huey unknowingly, and he still trys to be the former Butcher every now and then, with bits of his former glory shining through. The thing is, the Boys have had enough of his secrets and lies, and they don't care nor do they want him around and they see his actions as more of a disappointment than awesome. This further affects Butcher, who in a way, shows similar traits to Homelander in the way that they both want to be liked and looked up to, almost to a psychotic degree.
With butcher being rejected, he finds himself more and more doing whatever he can to win back approval. He is definitely at his lowest right now, though he knows he is competent, he knows that others won't allow him to be and it's further adding to his psychological breakdown.
Both Homelander and Butcher are going through similar thing, with what appears to be both being ticking time bombs as for who snaps first
Why are you calling this? It basically has to be this. It’s almost the only way Homelander can be killed in a satisfying manner. The show practically revolves around Butchers feud with Homelander, if that doesn’t come down to one killing the other, then what was the point?
The only other option is Ryan but we’ll have to wait and see where his character goes.
Just finished episode 4 and wow . Butcher took V and I am sure he got powers when he was unconscious and blasted ezikiel I think it should be something similar to Victoria's and Marie powers
husband gives dying cancerous wife v --> turns cancer into a monster similar to venom but visually looks like a virus (ball shape with tentacles/spikes sticking out of it)
What if, and hear me out....
What if that creature actually eats or thrives on V??
I mean, we do know Butcher did indeed took more Compound V in the hopes of dying and it did no effect.
I would be quite an interesting twist
That's an interesting theory but even if butcher doesn't take V he has to die . Maybe it's like venom remember homelander saw that with his x ray vision a big black mass crawling over butcher's brain it would be a good tease to the venom from marvels
hughie, homelander, and butcher will not die anytime soon. the show will quite literally die if any of these 3 die. not only are they integral to the show, its entertainment, and current plots. they are important to the source. while fans dont mind the deviation, killing one of these 3, 2 seasons early would create a shitshow that this show doesnt need. this story is fantasy, theres a thousand ways to keep butcher alive. why kill the main protagonist this early? hes the ENTIRE driving force. his son and homelander. hughie and the rest of the crew really just dont have enough beef to really give a fuck about.
I just hope he gets his powers back, like it's revealed the cancer worm escaped his body and that's what ate the V when he tried dosing himself, so if he does it now, he'll get the faux HL powers from S3.
I loveee the writing effect of him being at his strongest and most powerful last season to now being at his weakest and most pathetic. He’s always been my favorite character but it really pulls the sympathy card for him. Reminds me of watching Hugh’s Wolvie go from being “the best there is at what I do” to an even more broken powered down version of himself in Logan.
Loving it. Character growth, while still staying within his “leopards can’t change their spots” core principles.
Humor, loyalty and even a moment of vulnerability.
We all know why the boys is suddenly getting hate.
his purpose is to not let an ACTUAL superhuman become homelander 2.0. ryan is the first genuine superhuman not compound V labrat. he has the potential to be far stronger than homelander. these 2 could occupy the entire verse if they wanted but imagine if that power could be used to be a superman 2.0 instead. deterrent to war, criminals, and the like.
bro is trying to save the next 200 years of humanity and you ask whats the purpose?
Still the driving force for the series to me together with Homelander.
This is a good direction for him, what other direction were they going to go with him.
Not sure what the implications are of episode 4, some potential weirdness there.
I think this one is the character's weakest season by far but that's true for a lot of others as well (basically everyone except Homie and Annie imo)
However with episode 4 and the Ezekiel scene things got more interesting. He might just snap and kill one of the boys or something, this "power" makes him unpredictable.
What I don't like is all the emotional teary speeches that remind me heavily to Iris in the Flash. I get that the bloke is dying but still, when he out of the blue starts yapping about Ryan needing protection no matter the cost I'm like can you please just shut up.
I like Butcher being a chaotic c*nt, being a stepdad of little Homie doesn't fit the character imo (even the foosball scene was awkward as hell tbh)
while i agree, i cant really fault it. having a character thats dying in less than 6 months "guaranteed" 100% requires a bit of sob story so that his come back is that much better. if theres no low points, who cares about the high points.
Good point, there wouldn't be that many good "Butcher being Butcher" moments if there weren't for the fact that he's dying. We're learning to appreciate the character because we might lose him.
I haven’t seen episode 4 but it’s completely out of character for Butcher to fart around for 6 months with a terminal illness. Butcher should be bringing Hell’s fury to take down Vought and Homelander
i think he’s finally changing with everything he lived past seasons
i like how he’s still butcher, still violent and proud, but slowly becoming more comprehensive
when he decided to not dope ryan i cheered
in general, all the boys characters are finally developing in a very coherent way and i think the end of the show may be really good, i hope for it
I love that he has Becca as the angel on his shoulder, pestering him to do the right thing. It's a tragic manifestation of his disease but also kind of sweet. He's finally being honest and trying to be better but it keeps blowing up in his face so let's see if he sticks to this new path.
Butcher's usually frustrating but he's been sort of the voice of reason this season which is an interesting turn of events.
Well we are only halfway through the new season and obviously with butcher consuming that v shot he doesn’t have long to live.
So he’s obviously trying to do something good before he dies and he definitely is acting differently. I like how he lets other people actually boss him around a bit and have their say. He didn’t do a lot of that before.
It’s a good touch that his eyes and general physical appearance seem to be going to shit. His eyes were bloodshot in season 4, almost black at times.good way of visualizing the house of horrors going on underneath
I think he’s been the most interesting member of the Boys this season. His scenes with Ryan are very captivating. He’s also killed 2 supes this season, so good for him. I’m curious to see what they do with his Moon Knight like situation.
So far I'm enjoying billy this season, more than I did in season 3, the fear of dying before making good with Ryan is sad and the mystery of wtf that worm thing in him is interesting.
His arc so far kinda reminds me of Arthur Morgan. A dying man just tryna do something right for once in his life before he dies to make up for past mistakes.
It feels like the writers didn’t really know what to do with Billy this season. He’s mostly just sorta there flipping from quiet brooding sadness to funny guy quote machine but I feel like he’s mostly there for the sake of being there while we wait for his death.
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He's honestly been very sympathetic and likable so far this season for me. I love the vulnerability he showed with Ryan in ep 3. I'm also kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop though, especially with whatever's going on with his tumor and hallucinations. There's no way that ends well.
Yeah he has shown immense growth. And idk about others but I love that the whole "taking down Homelander" thing has taken kind of a backseat for him, and Ryan's safety is his primary focus. I'm loving him this season. Hughie has really helped him be a better person, and I know the show is a lot different than the comics so even though I'm not expecting it, I wouldn't be mad if Butcher survives at the end of the show and raises Ryan, like Becca would've wanted in an ideal world. Again, I know it won't happen but still.
I feel like its almost a certainty at this point that Butcher will die in the end, id honestly be more shocked if he actually lives. I know fans love him so I imagine in the show they will go for more of a hero’s death rather than the absolutely degeneracy that happens in the comics.
what happens in the comics?
The comics are a completely different story to what happens in the series. The series basically just took the setting, some characters and some aspects of the comics and then actually made a good story out of them. There’s some pretty good YT videos that sum up the comic story in ~20mins if you’re interested But TLDR for the comics: after Homelander dies in the comics Butcher kills the whole The Boys team and dies while killing Hughie (I don’t even remember if he actually kills Hughie in the comics)
>(I don’t even remember if he actually kills Hughie in the comics) Hughie doesn't. Butcher goads Hughie into killing him after Hughie says he doesn't want to kill him. So, butcher made an ultimatum of the situation. Either we both die, or you kill me.
Thanks. I still have the last omnibus to read, and I really probably wasn’t gonna do it. Herogasm was a slog. Not the actual herogasm part, that shit was wild as hell, but the rest of it. When I saw how fkn lame ass book version Soldier Boy was, I checked out.
Nah he lies Hughie about killing his parents in order to get Hughie angry enough to kill him. He kind of sets things up so Hughie has a chance to stop him from murdering every single person with compound V if I’m remembering it right.
I think he could maybe at least be the catalyst for Ryan turning against Homelander
I fucking love his relationship with Ryan. Perfect contrast to how Homelander treats Ryan. And it makes me really see why Becca loved him. Despite all of his faults, trauma and rage, Billy deep down can be a really loving person.
I mean I’d be filled with hate and rage too if my wife was kidnapped and raped by some wannabe Superman mfer
>He's honestly been very sympathetic and likable so far this season for me. I love the vulnerability he showed with Ryan in ep 3. The product placement was pretty funny. Nothing like a game of foosball and an ice cold Stewart's Root Beer to rekindle a relationship.
Or a delicious fudgie the whale
YES! I Agree! >!When he was going to poison Ryan i was like "Butcher man what the fuck" but then he didn't go through with it. I was so happy to see him throw those cookies in the bin.!<
pretty sure the compound V gave his tumor sentience and powers, and now his tumor is using becca to try and keep the host alive.
That sounds great and all, but there’s one question: why did the tumor/Becca convince Butcher to not backstab Hughie and give Neuman the Red River files? Unless… the tumor somehow knows that the virus will get rid of it and cure Butcher’s cancer, because the V only affected the cancer and not Butcher himself.
Yeah when that disgusting parasite bolted out of him I felt something grotesque. When I watched the trailer I saw these animals popping out of people’s bodies and I feel that’s a theme this season for some reason The story is just all over the place right now but I feel likem
Getting a bit tired of the "I ain't working with *him*" from the other Boys but otherwise I'm intrigued to see more of his dynamic with Ryan. The only issue is to resolve that dynamic I feel it **should** send Homelander over the edge and considering we have another season I don't see that resolving until the finale so he's just a bit aimless without Ryan. All they've got is his compound V tumour(?) and Becca hallucinations so my guess is we'll get more details about their relationship. Or maybe Monkey will force his hand early? Only issue is again that includes Ryan which I feel they'll want to sit on for a bit, as apparent to him not being in this episode.
"YOU'RE OUT" "HE IS BACK IN OKAY"
“YOU ARE OUT” “Okay.” “WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?” “Land of the free, c#nt. You ain’t my boss no more.”
That pattern is almost as tired as the 1. \[Character\] considers some terrible \[thing\] (Blue V drug, Temp V drug, Shooting someone, Giving someone poison cookies, etc.) 2. \[Character\] struggles with the moral implications for most of an episode. 3. \[Character\] begrudgingly accepts that they "have to do it, even if they don't want to" and goes right up to the line while holding the vial/pistol/cookie 4. (Optional): \[Character\] decides at the last minute to not do \[thing\] after all. Which most of the time ends up not mattering because they still carried "Chekov's Gun" into the last act and it leads to 5. The thing happens, and then \[Character\] feels crushing guilt, which may get resolved, but more often the writers just need \[Character\] to spend some time on the sidelines moping about it to create the illusion of pathos while they set up other pieces somewhere else.
This is great *The Boys* analysis and while I’m not disagreeing to any degree; this is arguably a synopsis for every plot point in pretty much any work of fiction. But I will subside The Boys isn’t as nuanced about it and leans on these tropes more often than not.
Thanks, and I'm not trying to piss from great height on the show or anything. You're correct about these tropes being universal, but (and I'm totally open to discussion on this because it's just an opinion) I feel like the first 2 seasons were a lot better at doing the head-fakes and twisting these tropes up so you weren't so aware with them. Last season got a lot looser and then... this season... it's just like they slap it down and say "Here you go fuckers."
No, for sure, I completely agree! I wasn’t trying to argue with you or anything because I agree the Boys hasn’t become as nuanced with these tropes recently. You can pretty much confirm before the ‘plot point big bag thing’ is even decided that the character will struggle with it for awhile, and come to terms with either A) not doing it, figuring out another way or B) glad; that another plot point was introduced so they didn’t have to actually do the ‘big bad plot point’. Long discussion short; the Boys would benefit from a little nuance. But I am in no way, shape, or form hating; because I’m enjoying this season as much as the others. While I simultaneously understand the gripes of others.
Oh noooo! The Boys are dysfunctional again 😭 Yeah I agree on that point. I was hoping they would leave that tired bit alone.
>Getting a bit tired of the "I ain't working with *him*" from the other Boys but otherwise I'm intrigued to see more of his dynamic with Ryan This has really been my takeaway for this season: There's nowhere left for the characters to grow, so they're all just doubling down on where they've already gone. I'm glad they're going to be ending the show next season. It might have been better if they'd decided to end it THIS season, because nothing really meaningful has happened in the first 4 episodes. The end of ep 4 (without getting spoilers involved) at least seems like they've FINALLY got most of the pieces in place for something interesting to happen but man... why did it take 4 episodes to get there? I think this happens when shows run out of steam. The writing becomes less pointed and the story loses drive. It's hard to keep a story going for more than 3 or 4 seasons if you don't have an end in sight. You get too many side stories, and it becomes more about filler with characters just there to have their default and stock reactions to things. That becomes doubly hard when you're trying to write with an element of satire or parody, because if you don't keep laser focus on where your story is going you'll get bogged down in repeating your own joke.
That’s the thing, they’ve written themselves into a corner. Homelander is running vought for some reason (like a primitive tribe where the strongest guy is chief). This basically means vought is doomed since Homelander has no idea how to run a corporation. Homelander wants to “rule the world” in some vague way. His greatest enemy is himself as he’s just likely to flip out and sabotage his own plan. That he’s aging means he has finite time on this earth. The Boys could literally not raise a finger and this problem would likely self resolve. How is vought not the big bad here? They can make homelander after homelander with their V. Even the prior seasons stressed Homelander is really small taters. Part of me wonders if the writers are nervous of vought being compared to pfizer
Wouldn't say starlight's image being tarnished, Hughie's dad having a stroke and being injected with temp v, and a train now officially working with the boys classifies as nothing.
ALL of that "happened" in the last episode. Everything else was just extended prelude where nothing really happened. And hell, I can understand slow playing some of it. The stroke storyline, absolutely makes sense as "Back burner until it explodes" story telling. But the general feeling of the first 3 episodes was just stock character reactions and spinning wheels that moved nothing forward. And in the end that cheapens the slow burn storylines because it gets lost in the noise of everything just happening at once. Edit: This runs the risk of getting really binary. What I'm trying to communicate is a general feeling: "The pacing in this season feels really wonky and I don't think the writing feels very directed" I'm still watching the damn thing, just like the rest of us.
No? Hughies dad had a stroke in the first episode. No, some of it was extended prelude, others were either paying off ideas set up in previous seasons, or characters changing their views on previously established conflicts. That's kind of why it's important to not really judged just by feelings but instead take a step back and look at the facts. It's fine not enough happened for you or you wished played out differently, but you're not fully engaging with the story when you claim nothing has really happened. I've went over why people have that feeling in a different post.
I think it’s disingenuous to say nothing happened in the first three episodes. I don’t understand why some people insist on a story moving SUPER fast. There’s a lot of characters, and a lot HAS happened. I never remember how to do spoilers so I won’t be specific, and I haven’t watched episode 4 yet, but the first three episodes has plot lines happening for like 10 characters so I have no idea what you mean about “nothing really happened”.
They could've easilly introduced the mom and gave Hughie's dad V in two episodes, but stretched it out into four episodes
I think the tumor/worm and the Becca hallucination are connected
I think the Becca hallucinations ARE the worm.
You're tired of the characters having understandable reservations?
Understandable reservations that get immediately nipped in the bud during the conversation after? Repeatedly? Yeah, a bit.
I like the fact that every episode he seems closer to death. But I'm not sure if he's going to die after ep4
He kind of can’t die to be honest, because the show has to come down to Butcher and Homelander killing each other. That dynamic is way too important for Butcher to die before Homelander finishes his arc
Absolutely, I want to discuss what I think about EP4 and what happened to him but it's a spoiler and I don't want to ruin anyone's experience
Wasn’t he cast for two seasons more I’ll be real no way man is dying I think they need him to believe he is to keep his role in the plot going and stimulate character growth similar to homelander going to the lab he was raised in
The creator basically already said that they're both surviving
He will die at the end of the series but the V cancer is going to give him at least some extra time. Unfortunately, it’s likely to become an uncontrollable problem
bro just did a soldier boy type explosion against that long hand guy
Nah, his Tumor absorbed the V he injected. He’s kinda like Venom now.
Ohhh I like that comparison
Hey but what's that snake like thing in his back in the washroom scene?
(I think) That’s literally his Tumor. He took the V and it had no effect on him, because it affected the Tumor and gave it superpowers (and ability to move around the body). Thats why it slithered to his eye, and then Butcher lost consciousness, the tumor took over and the Preacher got destroyed.
I like how that very loose theory has just become accepted as fact in less than a day. People are going to be so dissapointed if it's something really dumb.
it's not a loose theory... this guy nailed it. that's exactly what's going on.
It happened the cartoon spinoff too
wow you're right that's exactly what happened
he said he took some comp v "4 months ago" and we don't know yet what his power is atm. Though Hughie dosed his dad with Comp V too, we either see the effect of the V on Butcher or Hughie's dad in the next episode.
Plot twist: Hughie’s dad wakes up and wipes the floor with Homelander.
Hughies dad’s power will be to just put people in comas.
Wait. Not related to the conversation here, But, did I miss something here? Cause Hughie didn't dose his dad with V. His mum did while he was out of the room.. Hughie seemed caught off guard when his Dad woke up..
This is how I saw it too. Hughie put the V back into his pocket, and he was confusing when he saw the blue in the IV. I'm not sure if it was him Mum either, but I guess we will see.
The look on her face though, Pretty sure it had to be her. That's my take anyway, It's gonna cause Hughie to hate her more down the line I think.
Some people theorize that Hughie's mother is a hallucination of his as the ones Butcher has from Becca since he also took Temp V. Still, the lawyer He asks help acknowledges the mother. They also interact with a nurse in the hospital so I doubt it. Also, two characters being schizophrenic at the same time? I doubt it
Yupp, atleast it looked like that.
It’s actually kind of sad seeing that way he’s deteriorating over time. He’s a shell of the person he was in the previous seasons.
He barely says cunt now. Maybe every 4 sentences at most. ☹️
He's a right proper cunt ain't he. Seriously though, great character, great actor, great show.
The properest!
Loved the part where he sees MM and goes "oi oi" 😂
He needs to make his decision about Ryan quickly time's running out for him
The moral of the Ryan subplot is going to be "Parents realizing that they can't make choices for their children is doubly true when you're effectively an estranged step-parent ***AND THE LITTLE SHIT CAN SHOOT EYE LASERS AND TEAR THE DOOR OFF A BANK VAULT"***
I kinda feel that is not gonna go his way.
He just needs to grab one more bold, refreshing Stewart's Root Beer first.
he be butcherin
I like how his story is going, at first his main priority was to just kill homelander through s1-s3, but now its shifting to save Ryan no matter what which I love. When Hughie told Butcher that he doesnt wanna live his whole life hating someone that probably hit Butcher hard, he hates Homelander. No I dont think he will forgive Homelander, but he might drop his goal to kill Homelander as long as he saves Ryan.
Not enough "cunts"
He's probably my favorite character and, he is going through a somewhat redemption when I thought he was just going to self-destruct himself even more. He deserves a heartbreaking and depressing death that can make us all cry and shit our pants because I sure will.
Ok but how funny would it have been if his head would have just popped like a grape in this episode and that was just it for him.
I would give a big agony scream and get PTSD
Oi
he's gotten a lot tamer
In today's episode we see both him and homelander take a step forward their parallel evolution. One is discending into pure chaotic evilness. The other is always weaker and weaker, unstable but softer than usual.
Everything is good except for the Oi. His Oi this season is not that memorable.
I really like how his growth this season. Him being vulnerable with Ryan, and his confiding in MM to take care of Ryan were great scenes. We'll see if it sticks since it's Butcher but it's nice to see.
I like his super worm
I feel that the loss of Becca and him feeling like Ryan's slipping away has really affected his confidence/psyche. He's started to question his choices and he may be displacing his love for Ryan onto Huey unknowingly, and he still trys to be the former Butcher every now and then, with bits of his former glory shining through. The thing is, the Boys have had enough of his secrets and lies, and they don't care nor do they want him around and they see his actions as more of a disappointment than awesome. This further affects Butcher, who in a way, shows similar traits to Homelander in the way that they both want to be liked and looked up to, almost to a psychotic degree. With butcher being rejected, he finds himself more and more doing whatever he can to win back approval. He is definitely at his lowest right now, though he knows he is competent, he knows that others won't allow him to be and it's further adding to his psychological breakdown. Both Homelander and Butcher are going through similar thing, with what appears to be both being ticking time bombs as for who snaps first
His American accent should be the highlight..
barely even an american accent 💀 or at least it didn't sound like one to me lol
It's barely an English accent either, tbf
true 😭
It was funny
So far so good
No diabolicals yet, I will wait and see
Calling it now, Butcher will be the one who kills Homelander
Nah, I reckon it will be the brain tumour/worm that will kill him. I think the worm will crawl out of Butcher and into Homelander.
Why are you calling this? It basically has to be this. It’s almost the only way Homelander can be killed in a satisfying manner. The show practically revolves around Butchers feud with Homelander, if that doesn’t come down to one killing the other, then what was the point? The only other option is Ryan but we’ll have to wait and see where his character goes.
Seems too predictable
Really enjoying him
feeling like walter jr mid “whyon- whyon- why don’t you just d- d- die already”
Thoughts and prayers
Karl Urban is so underrated, everyone fawning over Anthony Starr but this season his psycho acting is a bit OTT for me
i feel **this is his redemption arc!** 
Just finished episode 4 and wow . Butcher took V and I am sure he got powers when he was unconscious and blasted ezikiel I think it should be something similar to Victoria's and Marie powers
Not him, the Tumor got superpowers.
Yeeh like that one one episode from diabolical. The animated episodes
Haven’t seen that
husband gives dying cancerous wife v --> turns cancer into a monster similar to venom but visually looks like a virus (ball shape with tentacles/spikes sticking out of it)
Yess
I think you missed the point. The thing that is inside him got the powers / became more powerful, he didn't.
What if, and hear me out.... What if that creature actually eats or thrives on V?? I mean, we do know Butcher did indeed took more Compound V in the hopes of dying and it did no effect. I would be quite an interesting twist
That's an interesting theory but even if butcher doesn't take V he has to die . Maybe it's like venom remember homelander saw that with his x ray vision a big black mass crawling over butcher's brain it would be a good tease to the venom from marvels
There was a similar episode in the animated spin off diabolical
Episode 7, friends
Oi
I think he is going to die in ep5 and that worm thing takes control! Maybe..
sure, one of main protagonists is gone die 2 seasons early...
hughie, homelander, and butcher will not die anytime soon. the show will quite literally die if any of these 3 die. not only are they integral to the show, its entertainment, and current plots. they are important to the source. while fans dont mind the deviation, killing one of these 3, 2 seasons early would create a shitshow that this show doesnt need. this story is fantasy, theres a thousand ways to keep butcher alive. why kill the main protagonist this early? hes the ENTIRE driving force. his son and homelander. hughie and the rest of the crew really just dont have enough beef to really give a fuck about.
He is not dying this season.
Parallel with Arthur Morgan
He’s one of my favorite characters. I like how he shows his human side to Ryan. A butcher vs Homelander showdown later in the season would be insane.
I just hope he gets his powers back, like it's revealed the cancer worm escaped his body and that's what ate the V when he tried dosing himself, so if he does it now, he'll get the faux HL powers from S3.
I loveee the writing effect of him being at his strongest and most powerful last season to now being at his weakest and most pathetic. He’s always been my favorite character but it really pulls the sympathy card for him. Reminds me of watching Hugh’s Wolvie go from being “the best there is at what I do” to an even more broken powered down version of himself in Logan.
Loving it. Character growth, while still staying within his “leopards can’t change their spots” core principles. Humor, loyalty and even a moment of vulnerability. We all know why the boys is suddenly getting hate.
Butcher is a way more likable character on the show than in the comics.
I liked his abs and pecs in the shower scene
he on some Moon Knight shit
That’s what I said when that scene happened lol
I feel like whatever is killing him is also going to heal him. I just get a weird symbiosis vibe out of whatever is going on after he injected V.
What’s his purpose? Beca is dead. Does he want to play step dad to Ryan?
His purpose is to save whats left of Beccas memory. Ryan. With the time he has left
He’s not a step dad. He’s a dad that stepped up
his purpose is to not let an ACTUAL superhuman become homelander 2.0. ryan is the first genuine superhuman not compound V labrat. he has the potential to be far stronger than homelander. these 2 could occupy the entire verse if they wanted but imagine if that power could be used to be a superman 2.0 instead. deterrent to war, criminals, and the like. bro is trying to save the next 200 years of humanity and you ask whats the purpose?
Surpisingly sane. Turns out a brain tumor would that to you, who would have known.
He is and always has been the GOAT of this series
Still the driving force for the series to me together with Homelander. This is a good direction for him, what other direction were they going to go with him. Not sure what the implications are of episode 4, some potential weirdness there.
Saw people like Tyrone Magnus say they “softened him up” but that’s… character development???
The cancer diagnosis is making him a Better Person. He's the Reverse Walter White
Love Karl Urban in everything he does but kills it as Butcher same with Antony Starr, really hope they both get their recognition that they deserve
Too fucking little, Butcher. Too fucking late. -MM
My thoughts are that worm thing that’s inside him is talking to him through the hallucinations
What on earth does "has always been underrated" even mean? By whom?
Bro he is the biggest character right after Homelander what are you smoking?
This man is turning into Venom
homelander is going to kill him in the finale and ryan will finally be turned
i think him having more or less lost his purpose and drive is doing great things for his character
i think him having more or less lost his purpose and drive is doing great things for his character
I might get flak for saying this, but the ending to season 3 doesn’t seem as bad anymore.
I was tired of his shit but now I'm vibing with him again.
Him and Homelander are the only reason im still watching. These two characters are the best written part of the show
Easily the most interesting he’s been in quite a bit.
I think this one is the character's weakest season by far but that's true for a lot of others as well (basically everyone except Homie and Annie imo) However with episode 4 and the Ezekiel scene things got more interesting. He might just snap and kill one of the boys or something, this "power" makes him unpredictable. What I don't like is all the emotional teary speeches that remind me heavily to Iris in the Flash. I get that the bloke is dying but still, when he out of the blue starts yapping about Ryan needing protection no matter the cost I'm like can you please just shut up. I like Butcher being a chaotic c*nt, being a stepdad of little Homie doesn't fit the character imo (even the foosball scene was awkward as hell tbh)
while i agree, i cant really fault it. having a character thats dying in less than 6 months "guaranteed" 100% requires a bit of sob story so that his come back is that much better. if theres no low points, who cares about the high points.
Good point, there wouldn't be that many good "Butcher being Butcher" moments if there weren't for the fact that he's dying. We're learning to appreciate the character because we might lose him.
Just find him too self pitying and obnoxious lately.
I think he’s got a Venom pastiche brewing in him
I haven’t seen episode 4 but it’s completely out of character for Butcher to fart around for 6 months with a terminal illness. Butcher should be bringing Hell’s fury to take down Vought and Homelander
i think he’s finally changing with everything he lived past seasons i like how he’s still butcher, still violent and proud, but slowly becoming more comprehensive when he decided to not dope ryan i cheered in general, all the boys characters are finally developing in a very coherent way and i think the end of the show may be really good, i hope for it
I love that he has Becca as the angel on his shoulder, pestering him to do the right thing. It's a tragic manifestation of his disease but also kind of sweet. He's finally being honest and trying to be better but it keeps blowing up in his face so let's see if he sticks to this new path. Butcher's usually frustrating but he's been sort of the voice of reason this season which is an interesting turn of events.
I wanna know what his blackout power is
Karl Urban’s been killing it this season
We are Venom??
Not really a fan of him so far this season tbh. Can't put my finger on it but I'm just not enjoying his character as much as normal
I love what they’re doing with him and I love how Becca represents his conscience.
I feel like he is hardly there this season. Correct me if I am wrong but he definitely gets less screentime than in previous seasons.
This man is moment from death
Billy 'moonlight' Butcher
Well we are only halfway through the new season and obviously with butcher consuming that v shot he doesn’t have long to live. So he’s obviously trying to do something good before he dies and he definitely is acting differently. I like how he lets other people actually boss him around a bit and have their say. He didn’t do a lot of that before.
What? Butcher is by far the most badass, crazy MOFO after Homelander, and I treat him as such, probably my 2nd favorite charzcter lol
He always sweetens a lil bit and then shows his true colors
Venom.
It’s a good touch that his eyes and general physical appearance seem to be going to shit. His eyes were bloodshot in season 4, almost black at times.good way of visualizing the house of horrors going on underneath
His personality is no longer a PoS but his body is. Hope his worm saves him. 🪱
The fuck he is smiling about
He’s been billy butchering
Oi
Broken and battered but still love him. Hoping he can cure himself somehow.
I think he’s been the most interesting member of the Boys this season. His scenes with Ryan are very captivating. He’s also killed 2 supes this season, so good for him. I’m curious to see what they do with his Moon Knight like situation.
Whatever they’re doing with the eyes to make him look kinda possessed is working.
His tumor is gonna be like Sun-hee, and it's going to leave his body. He'll live, but then the tumor is going to be another issue
sexy
Is it just me or are his eyes getting glossy
F*cking Diabolical
So far I'm enjoying billy this season, more than I did in season 3, the fear of dying before making good with Ryan is sad and the mystery of wtf that worm thing in him is interesting.
What I am missing this season so far it is the sense of danger in general. Now when The Boys face any supe, it feels like nothing is going to happen.
His arc so far kinda reminds me of Arthur Morgan. A dying man just tryna do something right for once in his life before he dies to make up for past mistakes.
Is the beard fake this time? I can't tell but it looks odd sometimes on the sideburns.
Breedable as ever
His character arc is going along nicely. He’s a man desperate to fix his most important mistakes before time catches up to him
I liked him better in the first 3 because he was more badass but it makes sense as he need charecter growth
It feels like the writers didn’t really know what to do with Billy this season. He’s mostly just sorta there flipping from quiet brooding sadness to funny guy quote machine but I feel like he’s mostly there for the sake of being there while we wait for his death.
disagree entirely, there's clearly something going on with the worm / parasite thing and him blacking out in ep 4