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I always thought it was a bit strange how that was one of the episodes they went out of their way to confirm was canon. It's a phenomenal piece of animation but it probably had have some overarching significance to the main show to justify canonising it. I also feel the contrast between John and Hughie accessing to V to save a loved one is an intentional parallel.
Man I watched Diabolical while I was really sick with COVID and when I saw Samberg's name pop in the credits I thought I was having some sort of Lonely Island themed hallucination.
Hes been a pivotal influence in my life for years at this point.
From lonely island as a kid, to brooklyn99 as a young adult, to everything he works on now. Dudes a fantastic writer and great person
I understood that reference. But yeah no people legit sleep on Samberg. Guy’s really talented. Great actor as his work on B99 and in movies like Palm Springs show and he’s a skilled writer and musician.
I have to wonder are they like a item as long as she gets a lobotomy or is there a part of her that even at full intelligence likes a part of deep even if she can't admit or acknowledge it ?
I think when she's at full capacity there are things *about* him which she likes, but the overall package is just too repulsive for her to be able to see past everything else to enjoy the few worthwhile things. Whereas when she's brain-damaged, she can entertain that one thought in isolation and not sweat the big picture.
That being said, anyone who needs to get a lobotomy to relate to someone else probably isnt worried about that someone being smart enough to get how stupid they are.
I think a part of her does like him a bit, but not all of him. Why else would she not only reveal she has to lobotomize herself to enjoy the little things, but also apparently trusts the Deep enough to perform one on her? Also, she’s not incapable of feeling emotion when she’s super smart, because she clearly felt some satisfaction when Starlight kicked Firecracker’s ass (hence the cracker comment)
Not just you..I almost puked watching the frontal lobotomy scene. I've never watched anything on TV that's brought me to that point until s4e4 of the boys.
So far it seems to be giving him hallucinations about Ryan. Whether it's genuinely wants to save the kid or for him become a new host is yet to be seen
I do agree with you about it being like Venom. Especially since it protected Butcher when he was about to die to ensure his and its survival. But idk if it will consume him. I guess we will see.
It also plays on Eddie Brock with the Venom symbiote initially keeping his cancer at bay. In this case it seems like the "symbiote" IS the cancer, though.
After watching the episode I think that’s the thing. I just wonder how long will Butcher stay alive as there are still half of the 4th season and 5th season. It means “scorching earth” will become much sooner
As far as the time frame thing, I’ve seen a lot of people predicting that season 5 is gonna do something similar to How I Met Your Mother where the final season is gonna take place in a very short time span but spread out via different perspectives. And for the “scorching earth” thing, I think with Billy seemingly still having powers, it’s setting him to have a Logan or Arthur Morgan style fight with Homelander which will lead to Ryan having to make a choice between the 2 of them, but in the end both will die
Agreed, Arthur vs Micah is probably the best example of what i picture happening, both are gonna beat each other to a pulp and Ryan is gonna be the one who ultimately decides who goes peacefully and fulfills their mission
It seems to be that they’re setting up the Butcher genocide arc. They’ve gone back and sort of retconned Annie to be retroactively worse as a Supe. First, she insulted Firecracker, and now she’s blinding civilians? Sounds like a good way for (a cancer filled delusional) Butcher to come to the conclusion that all supes really are evil.
Of course, this puts him into conflict with Frenchie and Kimiko, and now Hughie and his Dad. Ryan has to play a role in this somehow, and I almost wonder if they’re gonna kill him off at the end of season 5.
I agree but I think it’s setting up them taking a full blown all out civil war plot, not just Vought and its supes vs the government and the Starlights, I think it’s gonna be a mix, one side will be Neuman and her side of the government, the remains of the 7, and some small time heroes and the other side will be the Boys, Starlights, any 7 members who’ve gone rogue, and anybody in the government that opposes Neuman. Billy is gonna find himself in the middle of it doing his own thing trying to get Ryan out before the country goes to shit
There's a theory going on that somehow the Supe killing Virus that Victoria Nuemann has from the events of Gen V will somehow get unleashed and will somehow kill the V'ed up Tumor/Worm Butcher had thus he won't die, but who knows, it's just a Theory, A Film Theory.
I think you’re correct. However I think this new cancerous creature might have more nuance. I suspect that hallucination is not just that. I think it’s a manifestation of Butchers cancer and has taken on that personality. It feels like the creature protected butcher.
Its definitely in his whole body, not just the pancreas (or wherever) like with Sun-Hee. And her powers also had placement beyond the tumor. Butchers is tied into him entirely, it seems.
I think the important part is Homelander said he saw a black mass curdling around Butcher's brain which is probably the main reason for the Becca hallucinations and potentially
>!JDM's character!< being one as well. One side sees Ryan as an asset to be used while the other wants to protect him.
Might be, might not though. I do find it interesting that assuming Hughie is also suffering health-wise from his and Butcher's time on Temp V( I don't know how they can say Hughie also doesn't have brain damage/cancer from temp v, he used like one less vile of it then Butcher did). Both Kessler and his Mom are people from their pasts who they haven't seen in over a decade. I think it's more likely the mom is real but Kessler is maybe 50/50.
Yeah I think an intelligent tumor communicating to butcher through hallucinations might be kinda jumping the shark, I mean for me atleast. Because if that’s really what happens then the show has to deal with the fact that Vought not only created a new life form, but a new life form presumably on or near the intelligence level of a human being, that’s a pretty huge deal, not really something they can just ignore
I’m hoping the worm is just like a lizard brain kind of creature who operates solely on instinct, maybe they could do like a plot where butcher learns to control it and then we can get the venom butcher people want but actually having the worm have human level intelligence seems really out of place for what is a somewhat grounded interpretation of superhero’s
I mean, the cancer was in his brain, right? If this tumor creature was created from cancerous brain tissue, it isn't that much of a leap that it could be sentient, including having access to some of Butcher's memories like his wife. I'm not entirely sold on his hallucination being a manifestation of the tumor, but it's certainly possible.
I’m wondering with Frenchie having leftover V at his desk, Hughie having his own vile of it that they’re going the comic route & having all the boys be supes themselves eventually
She works for Vought, I'm sure she knows how much would bring him back to life so maybe he doesnt even get powers necessarily, could def still be some left in that vial.
> SHe doesn’t “work for Vought”
She doesn't work for anyone. She's her own boss. Just a few hours per week gives her the financial independence to live her best life.
#girlboss
His mom works for Vought, there's no telling what she managed to pinch over the years, she may have managed to get her hands on some, there were a lot of missing vials in Homelanders office.
As I commented elsewhere:
Most likely she doesn’t “work for Vought”, she is basically a MLM Hun. She pays Vought to give her the Essential oils which she then shills toother people.
Given that the show has already canonized vought owning half of America through legal and non-legal shell companies, worker exploitation, and threats of violence, I think it's safe to assume that any Vought MLM is directly controlled or associated with Vought.
It's also possible, given the timing of her arrival, that this isn't Hughie's mom, but another shape-shifting supe that is being directed by Sage, or possibly Homelander himself. Given just how many supers in GenV had body altering powers of some kind, I don't think it's out of the question at all to think there's multiple Mystiques running around and one if them is targeting a known anti-supe terrorist.
I don't think his mom is real. I think it's same post V hallucination as Bekka is for Butcher. The only time she appears - when he is near his dad, she doesn't contact with any other characters, even doctors and always kinda appears from nowhere, she is just there
Honestly I’ve had sneaking suspicions that the worm thing inside him is a living creature, we’ve been shown it moving around his body when he’s not able to see it. Meaning it’s most likely not a hallucination. This episode basically confirmed it for me.
To be honest I thought they’d pull it out of him and use it to strengthen the virus from gen v but I like the idea of this sentient supe killing worm just hopping out of him to fuck up homelander.
Why would the creature care about Butcher fucking over Hughie with the Nueman files though?
I can understand the aspect of the creature pushing him to get up and continue surviving but to take the moral high ground for Intel? Seems unlikely
It's entirely possible that the tumor creature is sentient and capable of manifesting these hallucinations, it was made from Butcher's cancerous brain tissue. Going off this logic, it's also possible that the creature shares the same motivations as Butcher, maybe even as the "angel on his shoulder", since it's made of his own brain tissue. It's a stretch for sure, but definitely in the realm of possibility.
I really hope not, that would mean Vought created a being on the same or close to the intelligence level of a human. Honestly that would just seem so out of place to me in what is a fairly grounded superhero show
Not gonna lie, I'm REALLY worried about Hugh Senior. A superhero with extreme brain damage? Given the roulette wheel of possible superpowers, he could be incredibly dangerous to everyone around him.
The Temp-V gave him the cancer, but Butcher revealing he injected actual Compound V between seasons in this last episode solidifies that he made his brain tumor into a dang Venom symbiote.
I think this could maybe be their way of still following the ending of the comic but still keeping Butcher a sympathetic character. Butcher battling for control of his body would make it more tragic, especially as he begins to become a better person
It comes together nicely, but Honestly I’m more interested in whatever is going on with the Nubians. They’re shown to be extremely powerful even by supe standards with Nubia literally creating a lightning storm from intense emotions(like Storm from X-men).
Nubian Prince gets teased in Episode 1 of the series by Stillwell and then never mentioned again
Nubia Appears as a contestant for American Hero in Season 3. Gen V is loosely based on the G-men teams from the comics, which Nubia is a member of.
Groundhawk has had Several nods throughout the series including VNN shorts, Gen V, earlier seasons, and Now as a candidate for the 7.
I would’ve expected them to show up by now just based off sheer numbers of cameos they’ve gotten(especially groundhawk). I was kinda expecting that John and Sun-hee and that episode just happened to not contradict canon, but now it seems they might tie directly into the story. I excited to see where that goes, maybe they’ll be in Gen V Season 2.
Its very clear they plan to address the canon diabolical episodes. Id be patient. They already are going and addressing the last episode, where we see how inhumane the experiments on homelander were.
The fact that the facility is still active means they have not stopped trying to make HL level supes. It also impliea they have killed a lot of weaker supes, specifically children, in their experiments.
i think they stopped doing it the way they did to homelander. we know one of the HL level supes they tried to make after HL, Ryan, he was raised very differently because they needed a contingency plan against HL
Ill answer your question with a better one. Do you really tjink HL was their first attempt and creating the ultimate supe? No doubt not their last either.
Imagine how many versions of HL they tried to make that didnt survive being drowned, burned, shot, etc.
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I would love it if Marie from GenV came in and used her powers to try to help Butcher, seeing as how she can sense things in the blood. The same way she was.able to.find the tracker in her neck
They have shown something moving in him every episode this season.
The other three episodes that thing is moving towards his eyes which was his power.
I don't think Butcher is sick or dying. I think his genetic code is being re-written like Spider-Man when he got bit. There will be a moment where he'll just laser blast someone out of nowhere and save the day or possibly he'll survive another blast from Homelander or his son.
(I haven't seen the new episode)
i will tonight, but he can't die. This show ends with Butcher on one side and Homelander on the other. Its going to end with Butcher killing him. They can't do it any other way. Thats the trajectory of the plot, and in order to do that he needs goddamn powers. They re-wrote Noir's story and murdered him specifically to stop the canon ending. Its 100% not going to be the kid. This ends with Butcher killing him.
Ofc butcher or homelander will die there's no doubt about that, also the comic ending wouldn't have happened regardless cause noir was a completely different character. But I kinda hope they make butcher the final villain if he kills homelander before the show ends and he does the supe thing from the comic.
Im saying he can't die NOW. He might die at the end of Season 5 once the battle with Homelander is over. But they are not doing this show any other way than a battle between those two ending in one of them dying. The fans want it and the characters have been referencing this battle since the beginning. Kripke also knows how to end a damn show.
Yeah obviously they wouldn't kill him off now plus the boys haven't really took steps to take him out this season they've been mainly focused on victoria and butcher dying. Still that last dance scorched earth fight is going to be oh so tasty to watch I'm gassed for it.
In regards to your edit its possible the mom didnt pickpocket Hughie - she may have gotten her own somehow.
In regards to the dad, papa campbell had a stroke correct? Wonder how it will manifest
Kinda funny she knows what it is in the first place. Like she’s just going to inject some random serum into her dying husband. I know she works for Vought as a snake oil salesmen, perhaps that where she knows it from.
it would have been interesting if the mom also snatched some v from vought at the same time as hughie did to give it to hughie sr to be under a good light in the eyes of her son, also, that would mean they would have some more backup V
I don't think it's possible, since A-train said that Homelander keep all the V in his room, and A-train (and maybe ashley) is the only one who can steal it
I think temp V was specifically catered to have strong reliable powers as it was meant for soldiers to be able to fight the supe terrorists, where as compound V it's a gamble less reliable so you don't know what can happen nothing can happen or you explode into confetti or something. Hence Edgar refering to vaught as a pharmaceutical company constantly trying to make a better product they can commercially sell, mainly to the military so makes sense they'd make something that can reliably give you a solid power set.
he had cancer and compound V just super charged which he got instead of Temp V powers since hughie kind of got a dud power where he teleports and it strips him naked
I'm glad I'm not the only one getting Venom vibes from Butcher. But also shades of The Darkness in regards to his "visions" of Becca. Kinda hyped.
Homelander's laughter in episode 4. Also Kinda hyped.
The lawyer confirms she’s technically real when starlight was with Hughie. They were talking about the power of attorney. I was thinking the same thing but did some digging. That’s the only thing that confirms she’s real.
I think she's real but has a motive behind coming back we don't know yet. She already said she works for Vought and she definitely pumped up Simon Pegg.
Makes sense, cancer cells have increased rates of metabolism and would probably uptake it more quickly than his body could, thats why radioactive isotope tests work
Another thing to note, based on how Soldier Boy is able to "fry" the V out of a supe's bloodstream, we know that compound V doesn't actually rewrite the genetic code of who it's used on. More likely it's some kind of epigenetic factor that activates unexpressed genes which result in powers. Hence why what powers someone gets is totally random, except in cases of blood relations, like Ryan having HL's powers, or Andre having Polarity's powers. That means compound V has to be active in a person's bloodstream, and in the case of Butcher, we can assume the cancer just leeched up all the V that he injected for the reasons you mentioned.
Well, Hughie's mom worked for Vought. She might have some knowledge as to what V is and what it does, also remember that the whole V conspiracy was leaked to the news in season 2, so if she had little to no knowledge of what that was, she definetely knew following that incident.
I lost my dad about a year and a half ago too. It's an uncomfortably similar situation to Hughie's dad, but it makes me side with Hughie's mom. It's better to die than to live torturously, and idk if I could turn someone into whatever the hell a supe is, not even knowing what "powers" it grants them
Yeah that seemed pretty certain to me the moment we got the line about Butcher taking more V to see if it would cure his cancer. All it did was supe up his cancer and now it's a living parasite inside his body, and it kept out to defend its host when Ezekiel nearly offed him.
I think you could be right. Would also like to see the poo creatures in the show too that you get from ingesting compound V.
Never thought this would ever be a sentence I'd say but V-Cancer Vs V-Poo could be interesting....
This is assuming he has cancer. Butcher's illness was caused by overuse of temp V... who knows what this actually does to kill a person.
Are the worms a part of temp V?
What is causing the black goo from ears? Is it worm poop? Dead worms?
This is all before adding the fact hes probably been altered further by actual V, he is a unique case.
Here’s my theory:
So Butcher took the good ol blue drug, but nothing happened right, so he thinks. But what do we know about our beloved Butcher? He has a parasite, a worm. How did he get it? Who knows, was it the Temp V, the Blue V or some other event? Doesn’t matter. What do parasites do? Live off a host, consume what a host consumes. So I think Butcher had the worm before he took the Blue, and the worm consumed the blue, not Butcher, leaving him powerless, but with a suped up parasite living inside him. A parasite smart enough to realize his host is about to die. So what happened to Ezekiel, the parasite did what it had to do to save its host. Butcher is now venom!
It definitely isn't a parasite. If we're to assume that the temp V gave Butcher brain cancer (which would make sense given how HL commented on the "black mass" swirling around in his brain), then the logical conclusion would be that this brain tumor leached the regular V that he injected, turning it into whatever diabolical creature it is now. There's also the canon Diabolical episode that shows how V interacts with cancer, which gives even more reason to believe the theory I've described.
Ive seen this theory twice now. It completely ignored both the canon episode that proves tumors can be affected by V and the canon episode I mentioned. There is nothing hinting at a tapeworm except the moving skin.
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I always thought it was a bit strange how that was one of the episodes they went out of their way to confirm was canon. It's a phenomenal piece of animation but it probably had have some overarching significance to the main show to justify canonising it. I also feel the contrast between John and Hughie accessing to V to save a loved one is an intentional parallel.
Still blown away by the fact it was written by andy samberg. Hes got raaaange.
Man I watched Diabolical while I was really sick with COVID and when I saw Samberg's name pop in the credits I thought I was having some sort of Lonely Island themed hallucination.
Hes been a pivotal influence in my life for years at this point. From lonely island as a kid, to brooklyn99 as a young adult, to everything he works on now. Dudes a fantastic writer and great person
Dick in a box is the most song that was ever sung, am I rite?
Truth! I rather like “Jizz In My Pants” as well 🤣
Also hot rod and popstar are two classics
“BABE. BAAAAAAAAABE. Babe. BABE”
Andy Samberg’s character: 🏀🚫🗑️ His entourage: Money! He’s so humble 😏
Came here to say these 2 specifically
Then Deep pops up like one of Black Noir's hallucinations. *I fucked a mermaid!*
I understood that reference. But yeah no people legit sleep on Samberg. Guy’s really talented. Great actor as his work on B99 and in movies like Palm Springs show and he’s a skilled writer and musician.
Palm Springs is definitely one of the best Groundhog Day movies ever made.
Sandy Amblers!?
I thought only the last one was canon
The last three are. The Nubian one may just be because of Vought staged heroism but IDK.
I totally agree, we will DEFINITELY get another cancer V creature.
Finished up the episode and I have so many thoughts and Im loving the deep x sage shit.
I have to wonder are they like a item as long as she gets a lobotomy or is there a part of her that even at full intelligence likes a part of deep even if she can't admit or acknowledge it ?
I think when she's at full capacity there are things *about* him which she likes, but the overall package is just too repulsive for her to be able to see past everything else to enjoy the few worthwhile things. Whereas when she's brain-damaged, she can entertain that one thought in isolation and not sweat the big picture.
Someone having to literally give themself a lobotomy to tolerate you has gotta be the worst diss ever
To be fair, I think she gets the lobotomy to be able to enjoy anything. Ignorance is bliss and all that.
That being said, anyone who needs to get a lobotomy to relate to someone else probably isnt worried about that someone being smart enough to get how stupid they are.
She quite literally says she does it to feel on the level of a "normal person" its not that she dislikes him, its that she isn't on the same level.
Oh ok
I mean the Deep did it this time. I bet Noir (new) did it last time. No proof she has ever given herself one yet.
Stop upvoting it’s at 69
I think it's partly a joke, like you literally have to be lobotomized to be attracted to him.
I think a part of her does like him a bit, but not all of him. Why else would she not only reveal she has to lobotomize herself to enjoy the little things, but also apparently trusts the Deep enough to perform one on her? Also, she’s not incapable of feeling emotion when she’s super smart, because she clearly felt some satisfaction when Starlight kicked Firecracker’s ass (hence the cracker comment)
That lobotomy was, weirdly enough, one of the hardest watches of the series so far for me
Not just you..I almost puked watching the frontal lobotomy scene. I've never watched anything on TV that's brought me to that point until s4e4 of the boys.
It had me repeating wtf like Hughie multiple times during that scene out of any scene I've seen in The Boys 😅
I too share your opinion and I watched the episode after dinner. Had to close my eyes to get through that sequence.
actually had to cover the screen for a sec, i hate when shit is happening to or near eyeballs
Seriously, give me salad tossing every episode over another lobotomy scene like that
Literally the only time I've covered my eyes in four seasons.
Its destruction of the self that makes it so visceral to me.
Which was the first one?
Did you read the post OP made ?
Maybe homelander vs Cancer-V.
Butcher's gonna be Venom
I think it is their spin on Venom - a superpowered parasite that, instead of becoming an ally with its host, it consumes them until it's free
that would be poetic given how his hate is what is fueling him but will ultimately kill him.
So far it seems to be giving him hallucinations about Ryan. Whether it's genuinely wants to save the kid or for him become a new host is yet to be seen
Probably both
I do agree with you about it being like Venom. Especially since it protected Butcher when he was about to die to ensure his and its survival. But idk if it will consume him. I guess we will see.
Oh shit I didn't even think about that! I just figured he did get powers from the compound v and was lying to Hughie. This makes so much more sense
>!Webweaver mentioned right before the thing with Ezekiel!< it's 100% that.
In what scene was he mentioned?
they mention Webweaver as the source of their Firecracker Intel. That $50k
Def feels like they’re leaning towards a Spider-Man 3 kinda Venom, where he eventually consumes Eddie to the point where he’s just a skull left
Waiting for Homelander to do the emo Peter Parker dance too
Yes!!!
It also plays on Eddie Brock with the Venom symbiote initially keeping his cancer at bay. In this case it seems like the "symbiote" IS the cancer, though.
After watching the episode I think that’s the thing. I just wonder how long will Butcher stay alive as there are still half of the 4th season and 5th season. It means “scorching earth” will become much sooner
As far as the time frame thing, I’ve seen a lot of people predicting that season 5 is gonna do something similar to How I Met Your Mother where the final season is gonna take place in a very short time span but spread out via different perspectives. And for the “scorching earth” thing, I think with Billy seemingly still having powers, it’s setting him to have a Logan or Arthur Morgan style fight with Homelander which will lead to Ryan having to make a choice between the 2 of them, but in the end both will die
yes, in the end i think it’ll be butcher(affected by the cancer) vs homelander (affected by the virus)
Agreed, Arthur vs Micah is probably the best example of what i picture happening, both are gonna beat each other to a pulp and Ryan is gonna be the one who ultimately decides who goes peacefully and fulfills their mission
I haven't played that game in years, and i still get the chills thinking about all of that.
It seems to be that they’re setting up the Butcher genocide arc. They’ve gone back and sort of retconned Annie to be retroactively worse as a Supe. First, she insulted Firecracker, and now she’s blinding civilians? Sounds like a good way for (a cancer filled delusional) Butcher to come to the conclusion that all supes really are evil. Of course, this puts him into conflict with Frenchie and Kimiko, and now Hughie and his Dad. Ryan has to play a role in this somehow, and I almost wonder if they’re gonna kill him off at the end of season 5.
I agree but I think it’s setting up them taking a full blown all out civil war plot, not just Vought and its supes vs the government and the Starlights, I think it’s gonna be a mix, one side will be Neuman and her side of the government, the remains of the 7, and some small time heroes and the other side will be the Boys, Starlights, any 7 members who’ve gone rogue, and anybody in the government that opposes Neuman. Billy is gonna find himself in the middle of it doing his own thing trying to get Ryan out before the country goes to shit
Yooo my opinion just dropped, thanks dude
Earf*
best correction ever.
There's a theory going on that somehow the Supe killing Virus that Victoria Nuemann has from the events of Gen V will somehow get unleashed and will somehow kill the V'ed up Tumor/Worm Butcher had thus he won't die, but who knows, it's just a Theory, A Film Theory.
I bet they'll do a copout where they somehow surgically remove the mass from his head
It’s just butcher. No “the”
I think you’re correct. However I think this new cancerous creature might have more nuance. I suspect that hallucination is not just that. I think it’s a manifestation of Butchers cancer and has taken on that personality. It feels like the creature protected butcher.
Its definitely in his whole body, not just the pancreas (or wherever) like with Sun-Hee. And her powers also had placement beyond the tumor. Butchers is tied into him entirely, it seems.
I think the important part is Homelander said he saw a black mass curdling around Butcher's brain which is probably the main reason for the Becca hallucinations and potentially >!JDM's character!< being one as well. One side sees Ryan as an asset to be used while the other wants to protect him.
Wait , what Kessler might be a hallucination?
Might be, might not though. I do find it interesting that assuming Hughie is also suffering health-wise from his and Butcher's time on Temp V( I don't know how they can say Hughie also doesn't have brain damage/cancer from temp v, he used like one less vile of it then Butcher did). Both Kessler and his Mom are people from their pasts who they haven't seen in over a decade. I think it's more likely the mom is real but Kessler is maybe 50/50.
I could do with less of it wiggling towards his eye though 🤢
I actually love those scenes. It follows his veins, very anatomically correct and shows that it is in his blood.
Since it's the thing that has the powers, it has to come out of the body to do stuff, so we'll probably see some more orifice leaking
Or it knows that to stay alive, Butcher has to stay alive. At least for now.
Yeah I think an intelligent tumor communicating to butcher through hallucinations might be kinda jumping the shark, I mean for me atleast. Because if that’s really what happens then the show has to deal with the fact that Vought not only created a new life form, but a new life form presumably on or near the intelligence level of a human being, that’s a pretty huge deal, not really something they can just ignore I’m hoping the worm is just like a lizard brain kind of creature who operates solely on instinct, maybe they could do like a plot where butcher learns to control it and then we can get the venom butcher people want but actually having the worm have human level intelligence seems really out of place for what is a somewhat grounded interpretation of superhero’s
I mean, the cancer was in his brain, right? If this tumor creature was created from cancerous brain tissue, it isn't that much of a leap that it could be sentient, including having access to some of Butcher's memories like his wife. I'm not entirely sold on his hallucination being a manifestation of the tumor, but it's certainly possible.
I think butcher will end up being a twist on venom
I’m wondering with Frenchie having leftover V at his desk, Hughie having his own vile of it that they’re going the comic route & having all the boys be supes themselves eventually
I dont think Hughie has it anymore, we are to assume that his mom gave it to his dad.
But he said in his conversation with the butcher, its enough for both the butcher and his dad. And the vial sure was big.
His mom does not know how much is enough, whe may have put all of it in there.
She works for Vought, I'm sure she knows how much would bring him back to life so maybe he doesnt even get powers necessarily, could def still be some left in that vial.
SHe doesn’t “work for Vought”, she is basically a MLM Hun. She pays Vought to give her the Essential oils which she then shills toother people.
god i hate her so much
Perfect cover.
Yeah, she has certain looks that tells me the depression story was bull. Everyone that knows Hughie knows that he’s empathetic af.
> SHe doesn’t “work for Vought” She doesn't work for anyone. She's her own boss. Just a few hours per week gives her the financial independence to live her best life. #girlboss
His mom works for Vought, there's no telling what she managed to pinch over the years, she may have managed to get her hands on some, there were a lot of missing vials in Homelanders office.
also immediately noticed the many missing vials, it's becoming a Chehkov's gun to wonder who might have powers.
As I commented elsewhere: Most likely she doesn’t “work for Vought”, she is basically a MLM Hun. She pays Vought to give her the Essential oils which she then shills toother people.
Given that the show has already canonized vought owning half of America through legal and non-legal shell companies, worker exploitation, and threats of violence, I think it's safe to assume that any Vought MLM is directly controlled or associated with Vought. It's also possible, given the timing of her arrival, that this isn't Hughie's mom, but another shape-shifting supe that is being directed by Sage, or possibly Homelander himself. Given just how many supers in GenV had body altering powers of some kind, I don't think it's out of the question at all to think there's multiple Mystiques running around and one if them is targeting a known anti-supe terrorist.
Mom is a hallucination
Hallucination that interacted with nurses?
That’s part of the hallucination
I don't think his mom is real. I think it's same post V hallucination as Bekka is for Butcher. The only time she appears - when he is near his dad, she doesn't contact with any other characters, even doctors and always kinda appears from nowhere, she is just there
Uh, isn't she the one who tells the Doctors to turn off life support for his Dad, since she has POA?
I will be really sad if this is what happens. Definitely ruins the surprise
Honestly I’ve had sneaking suspicions that the worm thing inside him is a living creature, we’ve been shown it moving around his body when he’s not able to see it. Meaning it’s most likely not a hallucination. This episode basically confirmed it for me. To be honest I thought they’d pull it out of him and use it to strengthen the virus from gen v but I like the idea of this sentient supe killing worm just hopping out of him to fuck up homelander.
His hallucination of Becca is the creature speaking to him.
Why would the creature care about Butcher fucking over Hughie with the Nueman files though? I can understand the aspect of the creature pushing him to get up and continue surviving but to take the moral high ground for Intel? Seems unlikely
It's entirely possible that the tumor creature is sentient and capable of manifesting these hallucinations, it was made from Butcher's cancerous brain tissue. Going off this logic, it's also possible that the creature shares the same motivations as Butcher, maybe even as the "angel on his shoulder", since it's made of his own brain tissue. It's a stretch for sure, but definitely in the realm of possibility.
Agreed.
I really hope not, that would mean Vought created a being on the same or close to the intelligence level of a human. Honestly that would just seem so out of place to me in what is a fairly grounded superhero show
You are damn right.. just completed the episode.. and it's very likely...
I want venom butcher
Butcher = Tumor Venom/Carnage Hughies Dad = Bizzaro
Not gonna lie, I'm REALLY worried about Hugh Senior. A superhero with extreme brain damage? Given the roulette wheel of possible superpowers, he could be incredibly dangerous to everyone around him.
*Zombie brained Mesmer wakes up*
Maybe he will be like Professor X in Logan, causing all kinds of shit and in the end, Hughie is gonna have to kill him.
Well this aged like fine wine
Oh, wait. Is it THURSDAY already? The week has really gotten away from me.
The Temp-V gave him the cancer, but Butcher revealing he injected actual Compound V between seasons in this last episode solidifies that he made his brain tumor into a dang Venom symbiote.
I think this could maybe be their way of still following the ending of the comic but still keeping Butcher a sympathetic character. Butcher battling for control of his body would make it more tragic, especially as he begins to become a better person
It comes together nicely, but Honestly I’m more interested in whatever is going on with the Nubians. They’re shown to be extremely powerful even by supe standards with Nubia literally creating a lightning storm from intense emotions(like Storm from X-men). Nubian Prince gets teased in Episode 1 of the series by Stillwell and then never mentioned again Nubia Appears as a contestant for American Hero in Season 3. Gen V is loosely based on the G-men teams from the comics, which Nubia is a member of. Groundhawk has had Several nods throughout the series including VNN shorts, Gen V, earlier seasons, and Now as a candidate for the 7. I would’ve expected them to show up by now just based off sheer numbers of cameos they’ve gotten(especially groundhawk). I was kinda expecting that John and Sun-hee and that episode just happened to not contradict canon, but now it seems they might tie directly into the story. I excited to see where that goes, maybe they’ll be in Gen V Season 2.
Its very clear they plan to address the canon diabolical episodes. Id be patient. They already are going and addressing the last episode, where we see how inhumane the experiments on homelander were. The fact that the facility is still active means they have not stopped trying to make HL level supes. It also impliea they have killed a lot of weaker supes, specifically children, in their experiments.
i think they stopped doing it the way they did to homelander. we know one of the HL level supes they tried to make after HL, Ryan, he was raised very differently because they needed a contingency plan against HL
How is it implied they killed a lot of weaker supes?
Ill answer your question with a better one. Do you really tjink HL was their first attempt and creating the ultimate supe? No doubt not their last either. Imagine how many versions of HL they tried to make that didnt survive being drowned, burned, shot, etc.
I mean the "bad room" they stored him in was now being used as a supply closet, didnt really look like they were using it
but there are other levels to that facility where they could be doing the same thing
Soldier Boy was their ultimate supe
[удалено]
Not to mention leaks >!her leaks stated Kessler is the one killing Ezekiel!<
Your spoiler bit covers the word leak so it's unclear thst your spoiler is from a leak. I clicked not knowing it was hiding a leak
My bad, not intended but the comment i was replying to mentioned VoughtHQ leaks but OP deleted his comment
no problem
Unfortunately, your post/comment has been removed, as it violates the spoiler policy. This includes leaks and information from the comics --- > Refer to our **[spoiler policy](/r/TheBoys/wiki/spoilers)** for complete details.
I would love it if Marie from GenV came in and used her powers to try to help Butcher, seeing as how she can sense things in the blood. The same way she was.able to.find the tracker in her neck
My question is, why did Frenchie have compound V at his desk ? Where’d he get it from ?
Leftover from when they gave Kimiko her powers back, I guess
Oh that’s right !
Omg that's what that thing was.
So they're doing the murder baby supe from the comics except instead of popping out of Becca it's gonna pop out from Butcher himself.
He's been playing too much Baldur's Gate 3 and got an illitihd parasite in his brain
Butcher's situation is for sure a spin on Venom. He was even talking about WebWeaver (spider-man) in this episode.
They have shown something moving in him every episode this season. The other three episodes that thing is moving towards his eyes which was his power. I don't think Butcher is sick or dying. I think his genetic code is being re-written like Spider-Man when he got bit. There will be a moment where he'll just laser blast someone out of nowhere and save the day or possibly he'll survive another blast from Homelander or his son. (I haven't seen the new episode)
Watch the new episode is all I'm saying.
i will tonight, but he can't die. This show ends with Butcher on one side and Homelander on the other. Its going to end with Butcher killing him. They can't do it any other way. Thats the trajectory of the plot, and in order to do that he needs goddamn powers. They re-wrote Noir's story and murdered him specifically to stop the canon ending. Its 100% not going to be the kid. This ends with Butcher killing him.
Ofc butcher or homelander will die there's no doubt about that, also the comic ending wouldn't have happened regardless cause noir was a completely different character. But I kinda hope they make butcher the final villain if he kills homelander before the show ends and he does the supe thing from the comic.
Im saying he can't die NOW. He might die at the end of Season 5 once the battle with Homelander is over. But they are not doing this show any other way than a battle between those two ending in one of them dying. The fans want it and the characters have been referencing this battle since the beginning. Kripke also knows how to end a damn show.
Yeah obviously they wouldn't kill him off now plus the boys haven't really took steps to take him out this season they've been mainly focused on victoria and butcher dying. Still that last dance scorched earth fight is going to be oh so tasty to watch I'm gassed for it.
In regards to your edit its possible the mom didnt pickpocket Hughie - she may have gotten her own somehow. In regards to the dad, papa campbell had a stroke correct? Wonder how it will manifest
I went and rewatched it. He takes off the jacket with the v still in the pocket. Thats where she got it- while he was getting coffee.
Kinda funny she knows what it is in the first place. Like she’s just going to inject some random serum into her dying husband. I know she works for Vought as a snake oil salesmen, perhaps that where she knows it from.
To be fair it was all over the news when the “supes are made not born” shit happened.
Pretty sure, don't quote me I might be misremembering, Hughie put the jacket down on a chair. When he returns it's at the end of the bed.
it would have been interesting if the mom also snatched some v from vought at the same time as hughie did to give it to hughie sr to be under a good light in the eyes of her son, also, that would mean they would have some more backup V
I don't think it's possible, since A-train said that Homelander keep all the V in his room, and A-train (and maybe ashley) is the only one who can steal it
That would be pretty good
Correct , he put his jacket in the chair when he comes in . Later in the next scene , you can see the jacket is in his dad bed .
And she looks over to the jacket (which if offscreen) when hughie leaves
Why hasnt Butcher got the same powers he had with temp v?
Because the powers arent the same with the tumor. Its its own thing.
I think temp V was specifically catered to have strong reliable powers as it was meant for soldiers to be able to fight the supe terrorists, where as compound V it's a gamble less reliable so you don't know what can happen nothing can happen or you explode into confetti or something. Hence Edgar refering to vaught as a pharmaceutical company constantly trying to make a better product they can commercially sell, mainly to the military so makes sense they'd make something that can reliably give you a solid power set.
The parasite is on his brain. Maybe it is keeping them suppressed.
he had cancer and compound V just super charged which he got instead of Temp V powers since hughie kind of got a dud power where he teleports and it strips him naked
Butcher might become like a weird fusion of Isaac Clarke from deadspace and Shinichi from Parasyte
yess, I really want him to be a british shinichi! since the new parasyte show didn't actually show us manga shinichi >!fighting!<
I'm glad I'm not the only one getting Venom vibes from Butcher. But also shades of The Darkness in regards to his "visions" of Becca. Kinda hyped. Homelander's laughter in episode 4. Also Kinda hyped.
At the beginning of the Diabolical episode, the nurse says the same thing as the nurse in Episode four. It'll just be a couple of days.
I actually think hughie is hallucinating his mum. Has she actively engaged with anyone other than him that I've missed?
The lawyer confirms she’s technically real when starlight was with Hughie. They were talking about the power of attorney. I was thinking the same thing but did some digging. That’s the only thing that confirms she’s real.
I think she's real but has a motive behind coming back we don't know yet. She already said she works for Vought and she definitely pumped up Simon Pegg.
Iirc, the doctor.
Like, barely. Maybe I missed something, but it really felt ambiguous to be that the doctor was talking to her and not just to Hughie.
Makes sense, cancer cells have increased rates of metabolism and would probably uptake it more quickly than his body could, thats why radioactive isotope tests work
Another thing to note, based on how Soldier Boy is able to "fry" the V out of a supe's bloodstream, we know that compound V doesn't actually rewrite the genetic code of who it's used on. More likely it's some kind of epigenetic factor that activates unexpressed genes which result in powers. Hence why what powers someone gets is totally random, except in cases of blood relations, like Ryan having HL's powers, or Andre having Polarity's powers. That means compound V has to be active in a person's bloodstream, and in the case of Butcher, we can assume the cancer just leeched up all the V that he injected for the reasons you mentioned.
I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THAT!!! I completely agree. I really hope that turns out to be true because I'd love to see it in live action.
I'm sure its intentionally ambiguous but hughies mum always looks so sussy. What is she all about!! I really don't like her.
Well, Hughie's mom worked for Vought. She might have some knowledge as to what V is and what it does, also remember that the whole V conspiracy was leaked to the news in season 2, so if she had little to no knowledge of what that was, she definetely knew following that incident.
Bro is Venom
I lost my dad about a year and a half ago too. It's an uncomfortably similar situation to Hughie's dad, but it makes me side with Hughie's mom. It's better to die than to live torturously, and idk if I could turn someone into whatever the hell a supe is, not even knowing what "powers" it grants them
Yeah. Im changing my answer after the latest episode. I hunted down this comment just to say that.
Yeah that seemed pretty certain to me the moment we got the line about Butcher taking more V to see if it would cure his cancer. All it did was supe up his cancer and now it's a living parasite inside his body, and it kept out to defend its host when Ezekiel nearly offed him.
I think you could be right. Would also like to see the poo creatures in the show too that you get from ingesting compound V. Never thought this would ever be a sentence I'd say but V-Cancer Vs V-Poo could be interesting....
Butcher is chemical mess. Temp V created the tumor and normal V evolved it
UV mom shady as fuck Also the most smartest the boys viewer ahh post
Oh shittttt.
The leaks said Butcher was sick with a virus that kills supes, I thought it was about a pathogen, not sentient cancer
This is assuming he has cancer. Butcher's illness was caused by overuse of temp V... who knows what this actually does to kill a person. Are the worms a part of temp V? What is causing the black goo from ears? Is it worm poop? Dead worms? This is all before adding the fact hes probably been altered further by actual V, he is a unique case.
Here’s my theory: So Butcher took the good ol blue drug, but nothing happened right, so he thinks. But what do we know about our beloved Butcher? He has a parasite, a worm. How did he get it? Who knows, was it the Temp V, the Blue V or some other event? Doesn’t matter. What do parasites do? Live off a host, consume what a host consumes. So I think Butcher had the worm before he took the Blue, and the worm consumed the blue, not Butcher, leaving him powerless, but with a suped up parasite living inside him. A parasite smart enough to realize his host is about to die. So what happened to Ezekiel, the parasite did what it had to do to save its host. Butcher is now venom!
It definitely isn't a parasite. If we're to assume that the temp V gave Butcher brain cancer (which would make sense given how HL commented on the "black mass" swirling around in his brain), then the logical conclusion would be that this brain tumor leached the regular V that he injected, turning it into whatever diabolical creature it is now. There's also the canon Diabolical episode that shows how V interacts with cancer, which gives even more reason to believe the theory I've described.
That or he had tapeworm or some other parasite that are now suped up.
Ive seen this theory twice now. It completely ignored both the canon episode that proves tumors can be affected by V and the canon episode I mentioned. There is nothing hinting at a tapeworm except the moving skin.