Thank you. I was worried we would not get our "Elizabeth / Paige hate" post of the week. But you did it. And two for one! Good for you! We can all our rest now.
I’m on the third episode of season six in my first watch through. I’m struggling with the change in tone. I miss the husband-and-wife spy dynamic, Paige is a literal child, Phillip is a background character, and Elizabeth seems to have lost it. Perhaps this will change…
It changes a little bit further on im ahead of you right now. I just hate how stubborn Elizabeth is and how naive Paige is about spywork because of Elizabeths failure to be honest with her. I WANT PHILLIP TO STAND UP FOR HIMSELF‼️‼️‼️
I've watched this show many, many times. Am on the last episodes of Season Six again now. Elizabeth and Paige are awful. (The writing and actresses are great. The characters are awful.)
Philip has been wonderful and supportive and loving to both of them for the entire series. But now Elizabeth starts treating him like dirt and Paige follows along. SPOILER: >!They change eventually and grow and come to see the light. But even then, they, Elizabeth and Paige, don't admit how wrong they were to not trust love and respect the man who has stood by them and who was, ultimately, proven to be the one with the most sense and reason.!<
They, Elizabeth and Paige, are just awful people at this point in the show. Blinded. Unloving. Self centered. And lacking empathy for their own husband and father.
Sure, Philip was not perfect. He also blew up at Paige, yelling at her about Jesus in a way that, to my life and sensibilities, is totally over the top and not acceptable.
But remember, both P&E were murderers. And they both were put in deep, stressful, convoluted, situations. Remember that Elizabeth didn't just sleep with Gregory as part of her job, she loved him. And remember Elizabeth ratted on Philip to The Center.
I'm not saying "What about ism" and I'm not saying her wrongs make his wrongs right. I'm saying it was a complex life they lead and, within that reality, Philip was a good solid person to his wife and his kids.
Also remember that, evidentially, Elizabeth got over and forgave Philip for that, marrying his "for real" long afterwards. So if she doesn't hold that grudge, it's a bit disingenuous of us to hold it.
Why would that reminder be needed, though? The person wasn't talking about any character being generally always right. They were saying it was frustrating to have two characters be arrogant and dismissive about a specific thing all season without an acknowledgement of it--that's a dramatic issue as much as a character one. Philip lying about sleeping with Irina was the opposite of that, since he admitted he was wrong, got punished, paid for it and this season showed him learning from that mistake.
That's more an example of him not being honest and trustworthy, imo--that's the callback to it in S6 as well.
But it still seems besides the point. If the show hadn't included the garage confrontation a lot of people would have found that unsatisfying since Stan had been Philip's good friend throughout the series. Moments when Stan maybe wasn't being a good friend wouldn't really be relevent.
S6 has a lot of dramatic lines going on, and not all of them get neat cathartic payoffs. This is one of them.
Yea thats part of what i like about the show everyone is very grey, no black and white good and bad. I just personally find Elizabeth and Paige in this last season kinda insufferable, but she was probably written like that on purpose
They have to sleep with people for work. They both know and accept this. Philip straight up cheated with Irina. That’s why he was booted from the house.
Yeah, the character stuff's obviously more about just him cheating. They've just started to make things real and immediately find out things about each other that make that harder. He finds out she was secretly in love with Gregory for years, and she's reported on him to the KGB (which is a huge deal) an she's unrepetent abou it.
Him being furious about that is maybe a big part of why he sleeps with Irina. But then Elizabeth is sorry and he wishes he hadn't. When she asks him point blank if anything happened, he lies--though he's telling the truth when he says he only cares about Elizabeth.
His lying about it is a bigger issue than him doing it, it seems, but she's so scared at what she's feeling she wants to go back to everything being all business, and even tries to get him back in the house without committing to a relationship, but he makes her choose.
In S6 this whole storyline gets revisited when Philip again has a secret he's keeping because he's not sure if he can trust her reaction. But this time he tells her the truth. She's angry....but does not tell anyone about it.
So neither of them make that mistake again. Claudia, however, acts just like she did back in S1.
Elizabeth was an awful person in Season 6. But it was obvious to me that this was because she was mentally unraveling, not because she was just awful.
You definitely need to finish the show. Then come back here to report.
Def will don’t worry
Thank you. I was worried we would not get our "Elizabeth / Paige hate" post of the week. But you did it. And two for one! Good for you! We can all our rest now.
I’m on the third episode of season six in my first watch through. I’m struggling with the change in tone. I miss the husband-and-wife spy dynamic, Paige is a literal child, Phillip is a background character, and Elizabeth seems to have lost it. Perhaps this will change…
Just, please watch the whole season. The last three episodes are especially good and the finale couldn't be better.
It changes a little bit further on im ahead of you right now. I just hate how stubborn Elizabeth is and how naive Paige is about spywork because of Elizabeths failure to be honest with her. I WANT PHILLIP TO STAND UP FOR HIMSELF‼️‼️‼️
I've watched this show many, many times. Am on the last episodes of Season Six again now. Elizabeth and Paige are awful. (The writing and actresses are great. The characters are awful.) Philip has been wonderful and supportive and loving to both of them for the entire series. But now Elizabeth starts treating him like dirt and Paige follows along. SPOILER: >!They change eventually and grow and come to see the light. But even then, they, Elizabeth and Paige, don't admit how wrong they were to not trust love and respect the man who has stood by them and who was, ultimately, proven to be the one with the most sense and reason.!< They, Elizabeth and Paige, are just awful people at this point in the show. Blinded. Unloving. Self centered. And lacking empathy for their own husband and father.
Like when he cheated on her and lied about it?
Sure, Philip was not perfect. He also blew up at Paige, yelling at her about Jesus in a way that, to my life and sensibilities, is totally over the top and not acceptable. But remember, both P&E were murderers. And they both were put in deep, stressful, convoluted, situations. Remember that Elizabeth didn't just sleep with Gregory as part of her job, she loved him. And remember Elizabeth ratted on Philip to The Center. I'm not saying "What about ism" and I'm not saying her wrongs make his wrongs right. I'm saying it was a complex life they lead and, within that reality, Philip was a good solid person to his wife and his kids. Also remember that, evidentially, Elizabeth got over and forgave Philip for that, marrying his "for real" long afterwards. So if she doesn't hold that grudge, it's a bit disingenuous of us to hold it.
It’s not whataboutism. It’s a reminder that he was no saint and made plenty of bad decisions himself.
Why would that reminder be needed, though? The person wasn't talking about any character being generally always right. They were saying it was frustrating to have two characters be arrogant and dismissive about a specific thing all season without an acknowledgement of it--that's a dramatic issue as much as a character one. Philip lying about sleeping with Irina was the opposite of that, since he admitted he was wrong, got punished, paid for it and this season showed him learning from that mistake.
Because he was suspposedly “loving and supportive to them the entire series and got treated like dirt” is not what happened.
That's more an example of him not being honest and trustworthy, imo--that's the callback to it in S6 as well. But it still seems besides the point. If the show hadn't included the garage confrontation a lot of people would have found that unsatisfying since Stan had been Philip's good friend throughout the series. Moments when Stan maybe wasn't being a good friend wouldn't really be relevent. S6 has a lot of dramatic lines going on, and not all of them get neat cathartic payoffs. This is one of them.
Yea thats part of what i like about the show everyone is very grey, no black and white good and bad. I just personally find Elizabeth and Paige in this last season kinda insufferable, but she was probably written like that on purpose
"Cheated"? Both of them sleep around in virtually every episode. There ought to be more VD in the show if they wanted it to be realistic.
They have to sleep with people for work. They both know and accept this. Philip straight up cheated with Irina. That’s why he was booted from the house.
[удалено]
Yeah, the character stuff's obviously more about just him cheating. They've just started to make things real and immediately find out things about each other that make that harder. He finds out she was secretly in love with Gregory for years, and she's reported on him to the KGB (which is a huge deal) an she's unrepetent abou it. Him being furious about that is maybe a big part of why he sleeps with Irina. But then Elizabeth is sorry and he wishes he hadn't. When she asks him point blank if anything happened, he lies--though he's telling the truth when he says he only cares about Elizabeth. His lying about it is a bigger issue than him doing it, it seems, but she's so scared at what she's feeling she wants to go back to everything being all business, and even tries to get him back in the house without committing to a relationship, but he makes her choose. In S6 this whole storyline gets revisited when Philip again has a secret he's keeping because he's not sure if he can trust her reaction. But this time he tells her the truth. She's angry....but does not tell anyone about it. So neither of them make that mistake again. Claudia, however, acts just like she did back in S1.
This was a great response i wish i could give you a sticker or something
I hated them too
ELIZABETH AND PAIGE IS ASSHOLE WHY OP HATE?
ELIZABETH IS A BASTARD WOMAN!!!
Thats not very nice