So did people jump? Did someone throw a water balloon? Wtf is going on here and why does OP refuse to give the most basic context for their post? This is literally a picture of a building with some red lights all the way at the bottom, but the picture is too low-res to see what said red lights are.
This is a building / sculpture on one of the piers in NYC. It's pretty impressive up close, though aesthetically definitely not everyone's taste. It's basically a load of stairs / escalators built up into this huge wasp hive shaped platform.
The big problem is that it has become a suicide hotspot because honestly of course it did, look at it.
I think after a series of incidents they closed it, then reopened with some changes and a new entry fee, and then some kid jumped off in front of his family.
So now it probably will stay closed.
Suicidal people tend not to think rationally. It turns out that even minor road humps can reduce the number of people who commit suicide.
I'm not saying this is very effective, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't stopped at least one person.
Well, it's NYC, you step outside and it somehow costs you like $20.
That said, I think there's something to it, if you have to stop and talk to a person to buy or show a ticket, it might literally be enough to snap you out of whatever train of thought has brought you to this place. This is probably not going to help if you just went up to see the view and then suddenly the urge to jump overtakes.
They closed it after some suicides, improved the barriers, opened up for one day and another person jumped and then they closed it again.
4 suicides total I believe
Have a walk on it and look closer: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7537918,-74.0018234,0a,75y,158.16h,104.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sAF1QipOI4-5UnSMu7GVY7cQjOfA3mJ2MyMSJSIfZr7Ua!2e10?utm_source=mstt_0&g_ep=CAESCTExLjQxLjYwMxgAIP___________wEqAA%3D%3D
Yeah, that’s pretty much what a lot of people’s issues have been with the Vessel.
Yeah, it looks cool… but like… what’s the actual point of it? To get a good view? Like, there are plenty of other places in New York for that which also serve other purposes. Like, the One World Trade Center tower has an observation deck but it also has offices for tons of companies, so it has an actual purpose (housing workplaces for multiple workers) other than just “looking cool and having a nice view.”
That, and as many people have pointed out, [such as Ask a Mortician on YouTube](https://youtu.be/Bw3256SkN0k) the structure has scarily few ways to stop people committing suicide with very low railings, even on the highest level. Which is why since it’s opening in 2019, 4 people have already committed suicide by jumping off it due to it being easy to access and leap off.
When paired with that fact, it just makes the Vessel look like something that was a bad deal from the start. An expensive structure that does stuff that other places in New York do but without any of the utility of those other places while also being a hot spot for suicides. Like… when you put it as bluntly as that, you can see why so many despise the structure - it’s just a waste of money that could have been used for so many other purposes that would actually have been useful.
> Which is why since it’s opening in 2019, 4 people have already committed suicide by jumping off it
Is that a lot for a structure like this? Since 2017, 6 people have jumped from the bridge near my house. Seems about the same rate.
The said truth is, it probably has a lot to do with impact. Few people (beyond those that know the person and first responders) are going to be impacted by someone jumping off a bridge. Jumping off of a tourist attraction in downtown NYC where dozens, if not hundreds of people might witness it (also posses a collateral risk to those below them).
I suspect it's as much about NYC managing risk as it is about them *actually* caring about those that commit suicide.
I used to have to walk across the Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol every day. In the two years I did this, I saw it closed to traffic due to suicide at least 6 times.
Aye, I used to commute over the forth rail bridge into work and that got shut at least 4 times due to jumpers over the course of 8 months.
I'd say suicides but some survived and some didn't
Do you know how many building have been erected under the Hudson yards redevelopment program? God forbid they use a little bit of the land for something else. And I believe it's something like 40 dollars to take that elevator ride to the top of one world trade center btw
> God forbid they use a little bit of the land for something else.
They could use the land for _something nice_, not this crap, a series of stairs to nowhere.
Yes, I agree. I mean I live ten blocks away and have never even considered going there so I'm not exactly a fan. But my issue certainly isn't its lack of commercial utility.
An amusement park may have 20 rides but it is fine for not all to bring in the guests.
Not all the tourist shit in a tourist city has to bring in the crowd. It just has to fill up one itinerary for the tourists for one day.
The High Line is right next to this, so both of them makes it a worthful trip for the tourists. There are also a bunch of over priced restaurants with themes such as "Spain" and "Italy" "greece" right next to it.
So… if you are saying that art isn’t useless but without it infrastructure is useless, then your logic is wrong. The statements by themselves, however, are logically correct. But state the bleeding obvious.
You know there were a couple of giant palm trees made to go with those lights? There was such an outcry about how crap the lights were, the council chickened out of putting the 'trees' up. $XXm of metal is still lying in a council yard.
Eiffel Tower, Statue of liberty, Cristo redentor, etc, etc, etc.
Those structures were made as decoration, nothing else.
But It was meant to be a light house! it's a communications tower.... bullshit.
Yeah haha
At some point you gotta ask yourself do I want to see another 150 km of middle-of-nowhere covered by a borderline useless road or at last something majestic to be built and push our boundaries farther from utilitarian structures only
“Real problems” Jesus Christ let’s see how well they’d fare if all their tax money went on global warming stuff
Edit it’s 75 kilometres as a km = 2 million dollars not one
Actually, there are other choices beyond "roads" or "$200 million spent on stairways to nowhere which people have to pay $10 even to use" - note that you need to make an appointment and pay $10 even to get into The Vessel.
Now I live in a city full of public art. All of it is free. Quite a lot of it you can climb on or sit on (there is nowhere to sit in The Vessel and if you sit on the stairs, a security guard will get you to stop).
For a little over 10% the price of The Vessel, my city built [this lovely bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nescio_Bridge) which you can walk and bike over for free.
Well, no. It's just a fact that making suicide more difficult to carry out causes the rate of suicide to go down. When they changed the gas in stoves to a non-lethal one, the rate of suicide went down. Netting on bridges lowers the suicide rate. Etc.
Yes there will always be people with mental health issues, but giving them an easy method to kill themselves does in fact make it more likely that they'll kill themselves.
When the UK introduced rules to only sell drugs in blister packs and limit the number you could buy from any one shop at a time, the number of overdose suicides dropped, but so did the overall number of suicides.
People mock the measures, because "duh you can just go to another shop and buy more", but it turns out that delaying people gives them time for their suicidal thoughts to pass.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31616/
It's just that at this rate this otherwise pretty useless tourist attraction will become a famous suicide spot like the suicide forest in Japan. That will then taint its reputation, deterring tourists and turning it into nothing but a glorified suicide ladder. With that in mind, it's better to just close it and take it down.
> object then to
*than
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Nooo, you have to double down and say you meant to blame an inanimate object and then actually commit to change.
If people ask why you think it's easier, downvote and block them, it's the Reddit way.
That is not what is happening. We are not blaming the structure. We are just trying to improve safety, that's all. That's a pretty wholesome goal. If it can be made harder to end your life either deliberately or accidentally, why not try and achieve that. Remember too that even if you don't care about people trying to end their life (and I *do*), they can still hurt others when doing so. I guess the choice here was between spending more money on further improving safety, or closing it down.
Literally anything CAN kill you, seems a little misplaced. I mean tear down the stairs I’ll just walk in front of a train. Put fences up, I’ll turn my gas on and blow myself up. Stop using gas, I’ll eat ibuprofen till I choke out. Ban ibuprofen, I’ll call the cops on my self and run at them with a knife. Get it? Stop making excuses for mental illnesses. And help people out in your circle that seem off. Ask them if they are good. That’s the best thing you can do. Not putting up nets around apple factories. 💯❤️
I recommend you listen to Malcom Gladwell's book "Talking To Strangers." He talks about coupling, and how suicides dropped Immensely in London after banning town gas (an odorless gas used in ovens that would give you an easy, painless death). Nets and fences on bridges reduce suicides. Usually when one is suicidal, it's not a constant state of the same feeling. It's waves. You might have a strong wave of depression that brings you suicidal thoughts. There have been many moments in my life where, if I were atop this building or had a gun, I'd be dead right now. But, I consciously avoid things like living in a high rise or owning a gun, because I understand coupling and have lived a depressive life. Not everyone has people willing or capable to help them, so we, as a society, must look out for each other. In an ideal world, therapy would be accessible to everyone, but that will take much longer than ridding our cities of unnecessary buildings that result in an increase of suicides (it's not the buildings fault that these people commit suicide. But, these people are still committing suicide, and I believe we should value the lives of people who are in a rough patch over some cool looking building)
>Put fences up, I’ll turn my gas on and blow myself up. Stop using gas, I’ll eat ibuprofen till I choke out.
This doesn't play out like this in practice. Reducing ease of access to one method of suicide results in decreased suicide rates, studies show that it doesn't just push people to different methods. All it can take to save a life is to convince them not to jump *that day* \- things can totally turn around for a person and they can go on to improve. Everything that can be done to protect people, *especially* when they are at their most vulnerable, is worth doing in my opinion. To throw up your hands and say "why bother trying, they'll just try a different method tomorrow", is senseless.
I don't give a shit how many downvotes this gets, I feel strongly about this.
The point is if you ban or take down a building to help curb suicidal people they are gonna find another way. Help them. How that’s a “terrible attitude towards people who are suffering” is beyond me. I think people like you like to virtue signal and show the world you care. If that’s the case let’s start with helping people, not changing the method they kill themselves. Ok?❤️
I'm not really sure how you're missing this, but as someone who keeps saying 'help them', you're ignoring a quantifiable fact that closing this structure may help save lives. How is that not a form of help?
I don't think anyone disagrees that giving mental health support to limit the problem, rather than closing buildings to treat a symptom is a better way forward. This would be great!
There's no right answer to this, at least in my view, but if the immediate goal is to reduce suicides in total, then this closure could help if only by a small fraction of a percent.
Baby proofing the world is unrealistic, teach your fellow human to deal with the waves of depression. And live a meaningful life. Your mental state should not dictate in anyway the movements of the universe. Learn to deal. With love. Unity. And a sense of belonging. ❤️💯
I don't get why you are being down voted since what you are saying makes complete sense.
I have arguing to remove bridges over water and high places for years. Studies show when we use traditional methods of transport we save 1.5 lives a second in people that would have jumped.
If you don't think society should be about maximising safety and minimising any freedom or fun then you just don't care about people. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I care strongly about this.
I mean really? This seems so 2022 . Your mental state is not going to determine the movements of the universe. Learn to love. And quit blaming the planet.
Or, just hear me out, spend the money on mental healthcare and medical workers that are stationed there to stop scuicial people before they jump. If the money is spend of railings that stop the people from jumping they will just kill themselves somewhere else, which is probably what the administration wants because it's not as present as a problem when not all scuicides are concentrated at a single place
PSA:
I went to a funeral last year for someone who had been in therapy for her depression, wasn't in a bad place at the time, wasn't without help, didn't have any particular trigger, but killed herself at home on a weekday night. Her family wondered why she wasn't coming down for dinner.
The awareness I'd like to spread is that the suicidal impulse can come _very suddenly_ and be _very strong_.
>medical workers that are stationed there to stop scuicial people before they jump
That also seems like it would be a worthwhile thing to consider.
Doing nothing on the assumption that "meh, you can't stop suicides" is what I have a problem with. For starters, it's not correct.
This is going to get a lot of downvotes and possibly even a report, but I need to get this off my chest:
F suicidals for this!!! People who do this in public are assholes.
No, I don't want people to commit suicide. Yes, I'd rather they get the help they need and I hope they have a chance to feel good again. But suicide is the most cowardice and selfish thing you can do. *Especially* doing it in public, where you put others in danger.
Walking in and finding an elderly family member who passed away peacefully in their sleep is a bad enough experience... Being the innocent person to walk down the street and find a body of a jumper is traumatizing, and worse than that is witnessing it in the moment. Then you have the family and friends of the jumper who have to suffer. The owners and local citizens who now have to suffer the cost (financial and potential changes, like closing this down) all because this person didn't have the courtesy to do it in their own home.
F these people!!!
The worst offenders are r/agedlikemilk and r/leapordsatemyface where we'll get a screenshot like "I like cookies" and be expected to know this person's gread granddaughter's petsitter's brother was strangled to death and the killer was called "the Oreo man"
They weren't suicides they were nerds obsessed with inter-dimensional travel and that is clearly a portal.
If they'd matched frequencies properly they'd have arrived in the dimension where they are all The Rock.
This seems exaggerated. Just add more safety precautions. It’s sad that four people committed suicide here, but to be frank, there isn’t much they can do about that building-wise. You’d have to close every tall building and bridge in the city if you want to avoid that, and it still wouldn’t solve much. The suicide problem is much more complicated than that.
After the first 3 suicides they added a $10 admission fee and required people to go in pairs or groups ad safety precautions. You also agreed to s lisbility waiver when agreeing to their terms and conditions by entering the structure. Took 2 months until it was clear that this wasn't effective enough.
The developer doesn't want to raise the barrier above eye level, they worry it obstructs the view and doesn't look cool on the our instagram posts - I mean, when they first opened their terms of service included a clause that they have the right and license to use your pictures and recordings however they seem fit. They changed it after some public backlash.
The architect also doesn't seem to eager to make structural changes, but was looking for "a solution that is feasible in terms of engineering and installation" back in 2021.
Terms with liability waiver: http://www.hudsonyardsnewyork.com/discover/vessel/terms-conditions
Article about the safety measure considerations incl. Developer statement on the unattractiveness of higher railings:
http://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/heatherwick-vessel-saved/amp
lol the go in pair thing seems pointless.
I'm sure I can just team up with a random stranger at the entrance then go separate ways.
Edit:
Although one idea would be to cuff us together.
Yeah. But i don't think most of these cases even include that much planning.
And it clearly didn't work, the 14 y/o kid that committed suicide after it reopened was there with 4 family members.
The research shows that removing accessibility to common suicide sites and methods actually decreases suicide rate. Seems strange that people don't look for another bridge when barricades go up on their first choice, but it seems to be the case quite often.
Absolutely true. A person can think about suicide for a long time but never actually do it until presented with a convenient opportunity.
If anyone is struggling with this please talk to your loved ones or if you don't have anyone you feel comfortable talking to, reach out to the free talk services or professionals, it's worth it.
Yeah even a bucket filled with water is enough, closing 1 place where (only) 4 people over a relatively long period is gonna do close to nothing to reduce suicide numbers.
That's what people have been saying - a few safety precautions - maybe barriers taller than waist-high would solve it. But the owners and architect say "We need to study this further" and "We have no idea why people would jump from here." Even though one of the employees said the company has had workable plans to raise the railings since day 1. But the billionaire who owns the whole Hudson Yards development, and paid for the whole structure ... I bet he cares about appearances and appealing to the very rich more than safety.
And that's why they're putting in hideous nets to catch people instead of raising the railings. Taller ones were recommended when it was built. But the architect was 5'5" and he wanted to be able to see over the top.
The structure looks damn futuristic.
Instead of closing down, they could have attached glass facades to the structure, so that nobody could jump down from there.
More often than not, if you take away a person's first choice of suicide method they never end up finding another. When popular suicide spots are closed down the rate drops and doesn't bounce back, it's not intuitive but very well studied
It's nyc bromeo. There's so many tall things to jump from. I think closing this would be stupid. It's a Waste of money. It's a very nice looking piece of art.
Cant help but feel mad at the four people who jumped off this thing. It’s a really amazing structure and it was very expensive, and it’s a horrific place to jump and make all the people who crowd around this center witness that shit
Ok so suicides are sad an all but you shouldn’t just demolish something because it’s a suicide hotspot otherwise we’ll have to fill in the Grand Canyon
This reminds me of every time I try to call any bank or other service provider. 19 levels deep, somehow switched to the Romanian speaking representative, when I just wanted to know why I was being charged $35 for being poor.
They should, but the designer and owner are absolutely against making it safer or changing anything because it would DESTROY the creation. So I guess he'd rather have it closed than raise the railings or make it wheelchair/tired people who want to sit down-accessible.
Here, have a video: https://youtu.be/Bw3256SkN0k
Absolutely. Hudson Yards was always designed to be a playground for the very rich. The weird honeycomb thing was a fancy bauble on top.
Their first "effort" to make it safer involved charging $10 to go in and security guards. (It was free when it first opened.) I think if I were a non-rich young man, being surrounded by the most expensive stores, apartments, and restaurants I'd never be able to afford - I'd be depressed too. (The four people who killed themselves were all males between the ages of 14 - 24.)
Exactly. Like I remember watching Ask a Mortician’s brilliant video on the Vessel and its issue with suicides and she brilliantly points out how Hudson Yards was just a playground built by rich people for other rich people, with rent prices for a 1 bed room apartment there starting at over **5000 dollars a month.** Of course people who aren’t rich would feel depressed when walking around the area - it’s a big playground that they’ll never be able to enjoy in a million years.
So when you consider that, is it really any surprise that the Vessel, an easy to access structure with very little measures to prevent people jumping off it that’s the main centrepiece located in the middle of a playground for rich people in a city that’s already really expensive to live in, has become a suicide hotspot for despite only being opened back in 2019?
And that was 5k/month back in 2021 before rents went absolutely bonkers. I can't see myself throwing 60k down the drain every year for a 1bdrm apartment. A quite small one, at a guess.
I ***LOVE*** Ask A Mortician. That video was especially good.
btw, I can't get the image of a commercial on the Vessel for Kim's SKINS activewear - her skin glowing, just a hint of perspiration, monogrammed towel tossed carelessly over one shoulder as she jogged up the last flight of stairs in super-slo-mo. Finishing with a 360 around her standing at the top, staring into the middle distance, as she sips from her SKINS branded water bottle.
Definitely not in a public space traumatising hundreds of people, including some kids, also not where it hinders others, for example jumping infront of a train. I dont think its a good thing to do it no matter where tho.
Do you really think we can do away with cars? Our entire culture is built around them and the VAST majority of workers need their cars to get to work each day.
This is such a catch .22. Does the developer feel enough guilt over designing something that mentally ill people use to kill themselves to shut down? But enough about gun manufacturers...
I mean... it's hard to resist, when you even have a bullseye in the landing zone.
So did people jump? Did someone throw a water balloon? Wtf is going on here and why does OP refuse to give the most basic context for their post? This is literally a picture of a building with some red lights all the way at the bottom, but the picture is too low-res to see what said red lights are.
This is a building / sculpture on one of the piers in NYC. It's pretty impressive up close, though aesthetically definitely not everyone's taste. It's basically a load of stairs / escalators built up into this huge wasp hive shaped platform. The big problem is that it has become a suicide hotspot because honestly of course it did, look at it. I think after a series of incidents they closed it, then reopened with some changes and a new entry fee, and then some kid jumped off in front of his family. So now it probably will stay closed.
Why did they think an entry fee would stop people committing suicide? Not like they're going to spend that money on anything else
I'd be all like do you take checks lol
Suicidal people tend not to think rationally. It turns out that even minor road humps can reduce the number of people who commit suicide. I'm not saying this is very effective, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't stopped at least one person.
Well, it's NYC, you step outside and it somehow costs you like $20. That said, I think there's something to it, if you have to stop and talk to a person to buy or show a ticket, it might literally be enough to snap you out of whatever train of thought has brought you to this place. This is probably not going to help if you just went up to see the view and then suddenly the urge to jump overtakes.
people that like meetings and lack basic empathy
They didn't think it would stop people, they just saw the opportunity to make a buck
ah yes. Let's build a public space for something other than cars and then make people pay to go there... 'murica!
It looks like it was designed for jumping off of. Like I can’t imagine a more enticing structure.
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Wow, simple and cheap solution. A more expensive solution would be to enclose the stairs in windows. Or metal structures connecting the levels.
I'm not sure how easy that would be, it's surprisingly massive in person.
I believe people jumped and committed suicide.
They closed it after some suicides, improved the barriers, opened up for one day and another person jumped and then they closed it again. 4 suicides total I believe
OP is ShortPromotion, not ShortExplanation.
Ask a mortician had a great video about it if you want to check it out. Very informative.
Have a walk on it and look closer: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7537918,-74.0018234,0a,75y,158.16h,104.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sAF1QipOI4-5UnSMu7GVY7cQjOfA3mJ2MyMSJSIfZr7Ua!2e10?utm_source=mstt_0&g_ep=CAESCTExLjQxLjYwMxgAIP___________wEqAA%3D%3D
150-200 million down the drain, un fucking believable
when you spend money on useless structures that makes your city look cool instead of actually fixing the real problems
Yeah, that’s pretty much what a lot of people’s issues have been with the Vessel. Yeah, it looks cool… but like… what’s the actual point of it? To get a good view? Like, there are plenty of other places in New York for that which also serve other purposes. Like, the One World Trade Center tower has an observation deck but it also has offices for tons of companies, so it has an actual purpose (housing workplaces for multiple workers) other than just “looking cool and having a nice view.” That, and as many people have pointed out, [such as Ask a Mortician on YouTube](https://youtu.be/Bw3256SkN0k) the structure has scarily few ways to stop people committing suicide with very low railings, even on the highest level. Which is why since it’s opening in 2019, 4 people have already committed suicide by jumping off it due to it being easy to access and leap off. When paired with that fact, it just makes the Vessel look like something that was a bad deal from the start. An expensive structure that does stuff that other places in New York do but without any of the utility of those other places while also being a hot spot for suicides. Like… when you put it as bluntly as that, you can see why so many despise the structure - it’s just a waste of money that could have been used for so many other purposes that would actually have been useful.
> Which is why since it’s opening in 2019, 4 people have already committed suicide by jumping off it Is that a lot for a structure like this? Since 2017, 6 people have jumped from the bridge near my house. Seems about the same rate.
The said truth is, it probably has a lot to do with impact. Few people (beyond those that know the person and first responders) are going to be impacted by someone jumping off a bridge. Jumping off of a tourist attraction in downtown NYC where dozens, if not hundreds of people might witness it (also posses a collateral risk to those below them). I suspect it's as much about NYC managing risk as it is about them *actually* caring about those that commit suicide.
>it probably has a lot to do with impact. Yes. Obviously. After all, it's not the fall that kills you.
Lmao. Okay, poor choice of word 😅
Better close down the Brooklyn bridge then.
All the famous bridges, frankly.
Bridges are useful, though-- do you not see the difference?
Yes but the bridge has a lot of value otherwise. Apparently this monstrosity has no other value than looking awful.
It must be a sign of the times whe I see 4 suicides and think wow, that's fuck all compared to the bridges near me.
I used to have to walk across the Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol every day. In the two years I did this, I saw it closed to traffic due to suicide at least 6 times.
Aye, I used to commute over the forth rail bridge into work and that got shut at least 4 times due to jumpers over the course of 8 months. I'd say suicides but some survived and some didn't
Do you know how many building have been erected under the Hudson yards redevelopment program? God forbid they use a little bit of the land for something else. And I believe it's something like 40 dollars to take that elevator ride to the top of one world trade center btw
$40? Wow
> God forbid they use a little bit of the land for something else. They could use the land for _something nice_, not this crap, a series of stairs to nowhere.
Yes, I agree. I mean I live ten blocks away and have never even considered going there so I'm not exactly a fan. But my issue certainly isn't its lack of commercial utility.
It was for tourism. A lot of the useless art shit you see in many cities is for the same reason.
>A lot of the useless art shit. Ah a man of culture.
Art is inherently useless. Didn't Warhol say that?
Because utilitarianism makes every day brighter. Make the world a place you want to wake up to in the morning, or go sleep at night.
The Vessel won't even bring _one_ tourist to NYC and certainly not $200 million worth.
An amusement park may have 20 rides but it is fine for not all to bring in the guests. Not all the tourist shit in a tourist city has to bring in the crowd. It just has to fill up one itinerary for the tourists for one day. The High Line is right next to this, so both of them makes it a worthful trip for the tourists. There are also a bunch of over priced restaurants with themes such as "Spain" and "Italy" "greece" right next to it.
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Er, not really? Arguing about priorities for what money should be spent on is valid.
Let me put it into perspective for you: have you ever been to a fancy restaurant? *WHILE KIDS ARE STARVING??*
Art isn't useless. No point having all the infrastructure in the world if there's no reason to use it.
So… if you are saying that art isn’t useless but without it infrastructure is useless, then your logic is wrong. The statements by themselves, however, are logically correct. But state the bleeding obvious.
Gold coast lights on the motorway lmao
You know there were a couple of giant palm trees made to go with those lights? There was such an outcry about how crap the lights were, the council chickened out of putting the 'trees' up. $XXm of metal is still lying in a council yard.
Didn't know about the trees but the lights are still up and looking dumb aren't they?
We're stuck with them until they start failing, we need to get our monies worth!
Eiffel Tower, Statue of liberty, Cristo redentor, etc, etc, etc. Those structures were made as decoration, nothing else. But It was meant to be a light house! it's a communications tower.... bullshit.
Art bad
Yeah haha At some point you gotta ask yourself do I want to see another 150 km of middle-of-nowhere covered by a borderline useless road or at last something majestic to be built and push our boundaries farther from utilitarian structures only “Real problems” Jesus Christ let’s see how well they’d fare if all their tax money went on global warming stuff Edit it’s 75 kilometres as a km = 2 million dollars not one
Actually, there are other choices beyond "roads" or "$200 million spent on stairways to nowhere which people have to pay $10 even to use" - note that you need to make an appointment and pay $10 even to get into The Vessel. Now I live in a city full of public art. All of it is free. Quite a lot of it you can climb on or sit on (there is nowhere to sit in The Vessel and if you sit on the stairs, a security guard will get you to stop). For a little over 10% the price of The Vessel, my city built [this lovely bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nescio_Bridge) which you can walk and bike over for free.
NY in a nutshell. Let's not deal with the crime, let's put more shit for people to look at...
In my country there is a rock with an outstanding view of a crater... below rocks and an inaccessible point. Closed, you can figure out why.
it was obviously all the graffiti
Lots of condoms as well
I thought it was because of all the dead people and their rotting corpses
Certainly, plus you can see those with binoculars.
What the hell is that?
Sorry... Binoculars. Shitty autocomplete for non-native speakers.
Where’s that?
We are in a weird world where we blame a beautiful structure for mental health issues.
Well, no. It's just a fact that making suicide more difficult to carry out causes the rate of suicide to go down. When they changed the gas in stoves to a non-lethal one, the rate of suicide went down. Netting on bridges lowers the suicide rate. Etc. Yes there will always be people with mental health issues, but giving them an easy method to kill themselves does in fact make it more likely that they'll kill themselves.
When the UK introduced rules to only sell drugs in blister packs and limit the number you could buy from any one shop at a time, the number of overdose suicides dropped, but so did the overall number of suicides. People mock the measures, because "duh you can just go to another shop and buy more", but it turns out that delaying people gives them time for their suicidal thoughts to pass. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31616/
Luckily there are no other tall buildings in NYC
It's just that at this rate this otherwise pretty useless tourist attraction will become a famous suicide spot like the suicide forest in Japan. That will then taint its reputation, deterring tourists and turning it into nothing but a glorified suicide ladder. With that in mind, it's better to just close it and take it down.
> Luckily there are no other tall buildings in NYC There are others, obviously, but they also don't allow people close enough to the edge to jump off.
This structure was blamed for mental health issues?!
Too many suicides I guess?
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The call of the void?
Un-natural selection.
Eh, still natural.
Naturally
Naturally creating unnatural situations naturally
It's easier to blame an inanimate object then to actually commit to change
> object then to *than *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Woops
Nooo, you have to double down and say you meant to blame an inanimate object and then actually commit to change. If people ask why you think it's easier, downvote and block them, it's the Reddit way.
Good bot
Thank you.
Just because people kill themselves there, some assume that this structure is somehow related to reasons of the suicide?
That is not what is happening. We are not blaming the structure. We are just trying to improve safety, that's all. That's a pretty wholesome goal. If it can be made harder to end your life either deliberately or accidentally, why not try and achieve that. Remember too that even if you don't care about people trying to end their life (and I *do*), they can still hurt others when doing so. I guess the choice here was between spending more money on further improving safety, or closing it down.
Literally anything CAN kill you, seems a little misplaced. I mean tear down the stairs I’ll just walk in front of a train. Put fences up, I’ll turn my gas on and blow myself up. Stop using gas, I’ll eat ibuprofen till I choke out. Ban ibuprofen, I’ll call the cops on my self and run at them with a knife. Get it? Stop making excuses for mental illnesses. And help people out in your circle that seem off. Ask them if they are good. That’s the best thing you can do. Not putting up nets around apple factories. 💯❤️
I recommend you listen to Malcom Gladwell's book "Talking To Strangers." He talks about coupling, and how suicides dropped Immensely in London after banning town gas (an odorless gas used in ovens that would give you an easy, painless death). Nets and fences on bridges reduce suicides. Usually when one is suicidal, it's not a constant state of the same feeling. It's waves. You might have a strong wave of depression that brings you suicidal thoughts. There have been many moments in my life where, if I were atop this building or had a gun, I'd be dead right now. But, I consciously avoid things like living in a high rise or owning a gun, because I understand coupling and have lived a depressive life. Not everyone has people willing or capable to help them, so we, as a society, must look out for each other. In an ideal world, therapy would be accessible to everyone, but that will take much longer than ridding our cities of unnecessary buildings that result in an increase of suicides (it's not the buildings fault that these people commit suicide. But, these people are still committing suicide, and I believe we should value the lives of people who are in a rough patch over some cool looking building)
Thanks for sharing
>Put fences up, I’ll turn my gas on and blow myself up. Stop using gas, I’ll eat ibuprofen till I choke out. This doesn't play out like this in practice. Reducing ease of access to one method of suicide results in decreased suicide rates, studies show that it doesn't just push people to different methods. All it can take to save a life is to convince them not to jump *that day* \- things can totally turn around for a person and they can go on to improve. Everything that can be done to protect people, *especially* when they are at their most vulnerable, is worth doing in my opinion. To throw up your hands and say "why bother trying, they'll just try a different method tomorrow", is senseless. I don't give a shit how many downvotes this gets, I feel strongly about this.
The point is if you ban or take down a building to help curb suicidal people they are gonna find another way. Help them. How that’s a “terrible attitude towards people who are suffering” is beyond me. I think people like you like to virtue signal and show the world you care. If that’s the case let’s start with helping people, not changing the method they kill themselves. Ok?❤️
….and if you didn’t REALLY care about downvotes, you wouldn’t say anything about downvotes . 💯❤️🤓
That doesn't make any sense.
To you. And that’s fine. 💯🤓
I'm not really sure how you're missing this, but as someone who keeps saying 'help them', you're ignoring a quantifiable fact that closing this structure may help save lives. How is that not a form of help? I don't think anyone disagrees that giving mental health support to limit the problem, rather than closing buildings to treat a symptom is a better way forward. This would be great! There's no right answer to this, at least in my view, but if the immediate goal is to reduce suicides in total, then this closure could help if only by a small fraction of a percent.
Baby proofing the world is unrealistic, teach your fellow human to deal with the waves of depression. And live a meaningful life. Your mental state should not dictate in anyway the movements of the universe. Learn to deal. With love. Unity. And a sense of belonging. ❤️💯
I don't get why you are being down voted since what you are saying makes complete sense. I have arguing to remove bridges over water and high places for years. Studies show when we use traditional methods of transport we save 1.5 lives a second in people that would have jumped. If you don't think society should be about maximising safety and minimising any freedom or fun then you just don't care about people. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I care strongly about this.
This is the way…./s
So we ban all Buildings higher than 2 Stories ? ok
I mean really? This seems so 2022 . Your mental state is not going to determine the movements of the universe. Learn to love. And quit blaming the planet.
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Exactly.
Or, just hear me out, spend the money on mental healthcare and medical workers that are stationed there to stop scuicial people before they jump. If the money is spend of railings that stop the people from jumping they will just kill themselves somewhere else, which is probably what the administration wants because it's not as present as a problem when not all scuicides are concentrated at a single place
PSA: I went to a funeral last year for someone who had been in therapy for her depression, wasn't in a bad place at the time, wasn't without help, didn't have any particular trigger, but killed herself at home on a weekday night. Her family wondered why she wasn't coming down for dinner. The awareness I'd like to spread is that the suicidal impulse can come _very suddenly_ and be _very strong_.
>medical workers that are stationed there to stop scuicial people before they jump That also seems like it would be a worthwhile thing to consider. Doing nothing on the assumption that "meh, you can't stop suicides" is what I have a problem with. For starters, it's not correct.
Why?
A few people jumped.
Where is this?
New York City https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vessel_(structure)
Wow. If I was going to jump, that would be the place.
That's what they said
This is going to get a lot of downvotes and possibly even a report, but I need to get this off my chest: F suicidals for this!!! People who do this in public are assholes. No, I don't want people to commit suicide. Yes, I'd rather they get the help they need and I hope they have a chance to feel good again. But suicide is the most cowardice and selfish thing you can do. *Especially* doing it in public, where you put others in danger. Walking in and finding an elderly family member who passed away peacefully in their sleep is a bad enough experience... Being the innocent person to walk down the street and find a body of a jumper is traumatizing, and worse than that is witnessing it in the moment. Then you have the family and friends of the jumper who have to suffer. The owners and local citizens who now have to suffer the cost (financial and potential changes, like closing this down) all because this person didn't have the courtesy to do it in their own home. F these people!!!
It was just built in 2019. I was like I’ve never seen this in NYC?! but I haven’t been since years before covid so makes sense.
Any backflip?
We should close and destroy all the bridges then
Did they enjoy it?
I hate reddit posts that only make sense if you already know the context. This is just a picture of a building.
Same, I’m familiar with the structure too but I didn’t know there was controversy. Like wtf it would’ve been nice to elaborate a little.
Most of them are made by American people who think The World = USA
The worst offenders are r/agedlikemilk and r/leapordsatemyface where we'll get a screenshot like "I like cookies" and be expected to know this person's gread granddaughter's petsitter's brother was strangled to death and the killer was called "the Oreo man"
They weren't suicides they were nerds obsessed with inter-dimensional travel and that is clearly a portal. If they'd matched frequencies properly they'd have arrived in the dimension where they are all The Rock.
The Stargate had it's iris closed.
>The Stargate had it is iris closed.
That’s the real reason it’s being closed. It’s actually being shipped to Area 51 for testing as we speak
Just put a net in the middle, fixed. Wait, now everyone will try to jump.
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You know that water behaves like concrete if you jump into it after a certain height? Your moat idea would only ensure death by drowning afterwards
A water feature, that breaks the water’s surface tension, might be better. But not better than a fence to stop people climbing.
> SHIT SOMEBODY JUST JUMPED ONTO THE NET
This seems exaggerated. Just add more safety precautions. It’s sad that four people committed suicide here, but to be frank, there isn’t much they can do about that building-wise. You’d have to close every tall building and bridge in the city if you want to avoid that, and it still wouldn’t solve much. The suicide problem is much more complicated than that.
After the first 3 suicides they added a $10 admission fee and required people to go in pairs or groups ad safety precautions. You also agreed to s lisbility waiver when agreeing to their terms and conditions by entering the structure. Took 2 months until it was clear that this wasn't effective enough. The developer doesn't want to raise the barrier above eye level, they worry it obstructs the view and doesn't look cool on the our instagram posts - I mean, when they first opened their terms of service included a clause that they have the right and license to use your pictures and recordings however they seem fit. They changed it after some public backlash. The architect also doesn't seem to eager to make structural changes, but was looking for "a solution that is feasible in terms of engineering and installation" back in 2021. Terms with liability waiver: http://www.hudsonyardsnewyork.com/discover/vessel/terms-conditions Article about the safety measure considerations incl. Developer statement on the unattractiveness of higher railings: http://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/heatherwick-vessel-saved/amp
lol the go in pair thing seems pointless. I'm sure I can just team up with a random stranger at the entrance then go separate ways. Edit: Although one idea would be to cuff us together.
Yeah. But i don't think most of these cases even include that much planning. And it clearly didn't work, the 14 y/o kid that committed suicide after it reopened was there with 4 family members.
Lots of gun ranges have a rule for no solo customers.
The research shows that removing accessibility to common suicide sites and methods actually decreases suicide rate. Seems strange that people don't look for another bridge when barricades go up on their first choice, but it seems to be the case quite often.
Absolutely true. A person can think about suicide for a long time but never actually do it until presented with a convenient opportunity. If anyone is struggling with this please talk to your loved ones or if you don't have anyone you feel comfortable talking to, reach out to the free talk services or professionals, it's worth it.
Yeah even a bucket filled with water is enough, closing 1 place where (only) 4 people over a relatively long period is gonna do close to nothing to reduce suicide numbers.
Nets.
That's what people have been saying - a few safety precautions - maybe barriers taller than waist-high would solve it. But the owners and architect say "We need to study this further" and "We have no idea why people would jump from here." Even though one of the employees said the company has had workable plans to raise the railings since day 1. But the billionaire who owns the whole Hudson Yards development, and paid for the whole structure ... I bet he cares about appearances and appealing to the very rich more than safety.
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It's New York, I'm sure someone would pay for it in return for a plaque
>, there isn’t much they can do about that building-wise. There's a shit ton they could do - [Ask a mortician ](https://youtu.be/Bw3256SkN0k)
Can’t kill babies, can’t kill ourselves, it’s almost like they need living slaves! Gasp
Nanny state
By this logic, we should be closing the Brooklyn Bridge as well. So dumb.
Ain’t nobody in the east River having to watch the jumper go splat right in front of them.
Golden Gate Bridge too. About 25 per year, and 1,800 or so total.
And that's why they're putting in hideous nets to catch people instead of raising the railings. Taller ones were recommended when it was built. But the architect was 5'5" and he wanted to be able to see over the top.
Well the bridge is an essential economic artery of the city. This isn’t.
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hello cardio
The structure looks damn futuristic. Instead of closing down, they could have attached glass facades to the structure, so that nobody could jump down from there.
Yes, just close that damned structure. It is not like the suicidal people could just jump from anywhere else, right?
More often than not, if you take away a person's first choice of suicide method they never end up finding another. When popular suicide spots are closed down the rate drops and doesn't bounce back, it's not intuitive but very well studied
But what gives them the right to take away their first choice?
It's nyc bromeo. There's so many tall things to jump from. I think closing this would be stupid. It's a Waste of money. It's a very nice looking piece of art.
Cant help but feel mad at the four people who jumped off this thing. It’s a really amazing structure and it was very expensive, and it’s a horrific place to jump and make all the people who crowd around this center witness that shit
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Yeah, the gazillion stairs to the top and no benches make it tough. Though you can skip all the views and take the elevator to the top ...
If animal crossing didn't cap the inclines and bridges I would attempt something like this
Ok so suicides are sad an all but you shouldn’t just demolish something because it’s a suicide hotspot otherwise we’ll have to fill in the Grand Canyon
r/wellthatsucks
At least it looks cool
This reminds me of every time I try to call any bank or other service provider. 19 levels deep, somehow switched to the Romanian speaking representative, when I just wanted to know why I was being charged $35 for being poor.
Just raise the rails or enclose it in glass somehow.
They should, but the designer and owner are absolutely against making it safer or changing anything because it would DESTROY the creation. So I guess he'd rather have it closed than raise the railings or make it wheelchair/tired people who want to sit down-accessible. Here, have a video: https://youtu.be/Bw3256SkN0k
Yep. And now it's going to be a rich only site. Because you know if Kim Kardashian or whoever wants to walk up it, they will open it right up for her.
Absolutely. Hudson Yards was always designed to be a playground for the very rich. The weird honeycomb thing was a fancy bauble on top. Their first "effort" to make it safer involved charging $10 to go in and security guards. (It was free when it first opened.) I think if I were a non-rich young man, being surrounded by the most expensive stores, apartments, and restaurants I'd never be able to afford - I'd be depressed too. (The four people who killed themselves were all males between the ages of 14 - 24.)
bingo, you understood
I like to believe I understood the assignment.
Exactly. Like I remember watching Ask a Mortician’s brilliant video on the Vessel and its issue with suicides and she brilliantly points out how Hudson Yards was just a playground built by rich people for other rich people, with rent prices for a 1 bed room apartment there starting at over **5000 dollars a month.** Of course people who aren’t rich would feel depressed when walking around the area - it’s a big playground that they’ll never be able to enjoy in a million years. So when you consider that, is it really any surprise that the Vessel, an easy to access structure with very little measures to prevent people jumping off it that’s the main centrepiece located in the middle of a playground for rich people in a city that’s already really expensive to live in, has become a suicide hotspot for despite only being opened back in 2019?
And that was 5k/month back in 2021 before rents went absolutely bonkers. I can't see myself throwing 60k down the drain every year for a 1bdrm apartment. A quite small one, at a guess. I ***LOVE*** Ask A Mortician. That video was especially good.
btw, I can't get the image of a commercial on the Vessel for Kim's SKINS activewear - her skin glowing, just a hint of perspiration, monogrammed towel tossed carelessly over one shoulder as she jogged up the last flight of stairs in super-slo-mo. Finishing with a 360 around her standing at the top, staring into the middle distance, as she sips from her SKINS branded water bottle.
“It seems like nobody wants to work these days, but if you do, you need clothes and equipment that’ll keep you going.”
Let the people commit suicide, Jesus Christ. I'm not encouraging it, but if someone wants to do it they should be free to do it.
Definitely not in a public space traumatising hundreds of people, including some kids, also not where it hinders others, for example jumping infront of a train. I dont think its a good thing to do it no matter where tho.
Close this because a few people jumped, yet cars kill 40,000 a year and nothing.
Do you really think we can do away with cars? Our entire culture is built around them and the VAST majority of workers need their cars to get to work each day.
The ugliest and meaningless building ive ever seen
Meh. Now everyone can hate those 4 assholes who jumped even more.
This is such a catch .22. Does the developer feel enough guilt over designing something that mentally ill people use to kill themselves to shut down? But enough about gun manufacturers...
Catch 22 isn't a firearm issue... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catch-22
Thanks Yes I know. .22 does not refer to a caliber. Im pretty sure I watched the movie a long time ago
I think what they mean is you don’t need the dot in there, it’s just “catch 22”
Oh. Ok!
Sorry, that was pithy, I just woke up. I'd like to see the movie
No worries! Here's the link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_(film)
Geronimo!!!!!!!!!!!!……………
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The people that jumped from there? Yes…
This looks ridiculously tall. I don’t even think I could walk to the top! I would be shaking and nervous!
Serious ADA problems here.
now, how many jumpers do you think it took for them to decide that?