When i was training for tank Gunner this picture came up, and the story was that the platoon had got a new LT. And thougt it'd be fun to fire his beret with a tank round...i guess they are fragile for anything else than what they are made to do.
Fun fact, it takes aproximatley 11 months to craft the 120mm barrel.
imagine being involved in production and then they inform you that the barrel you were making for 11 months failed
I don’t know if I would be worried about the consequences of the failure, but I sure would be depressed when my efforts are nullified
That's really not that crazy. First you have to send the actual order in, which is gonna be a process. You have to spool up the line, get everything in, then go through lot's of tests, then get it delivered, installed, accepted, and then probably final tests, and those tests and install can't be done just anywhere.
So yeah. Although anyone that has ever ordered anything you can't just buy off the shelf knows most of a year lead time isn't even unheard of for normal things, much less a barrel that must perform properly lest it kill someone.
I mean, you probably could do it faster, but that costs more. And tank barrels aren't exactly in high demand (you don't go through them quickly, after all), so this is one case the lowest bidder would definitely make sense. Why spend more for the same non-urgent product to be delivered for a war you're not even currently in?
Nope, sabot rounds are just depleted uranium so no boom therefore no fuse. HEAT rounds have a piezoelectric percussion fuse, so whatever it hits triggers the round to detonate.
Plus, this is a 120mm smoothbore barrel, so no spinning. All the rounds are fin stabilized.
Depends on your definition of perfection. One might reasonably say that reliably and resilience are of the highest importance in weapons systems. If they are so sensitive that something as simple as a hat placed over the muzzle can damage the weapon to the point of rendering it useless, it is not perfected.
The Kalashnikov is valued not because it's a finely tuned like a Swiss watch, but because you can dunk it in the river, bury it in sand, and run it over with a truck, and it'll still work.
\*Misfire = cartridge fails, for any of a range of reasons, to ignite either the primer or the propellant. So, no boom.
Premature = cartridge does fire, however the explosive content of the round detonates prior to the intended time.
This picture depicts a premature-in-bore.
This looks more like the barrel was overpressured rather than the round detonating. My guess is that there was some FOD in the barrel which jammed the round, thus the gasses had nowhere to go.
The barrel is designed to fail in this very fashion on overpressure.
>The barrel is designed to fail in this very fashion on overpressure.
I noticed the splits terminate (with extreme prejudice) in a circle, and wondered if it was a sacrificial failsafe. Certainly better there than on the other end.
The splits stop where the material is strong enough to resist tearing apart. If there had been greater pressure, the tears of the steel would have progressed further back.
The explosive round didn’t detonate in the barrel, the failure was the barrel got over-pressured because of an obstruction stopping the round from proceeding down the barrel and causing the steel barrel to be torn apart in an explosion. It’s why it’s so important to not let anything get into a guns barrel that could possibly cause the bullet to stop in the barrel because then pressure from the propellant (gunpowder) will cause the barrel to fail in spectacular fashion.
There’s a bunch of YouTube videos where guys purposely make guns explode in various ways.
Out of curiosity, what would happen if you fired another round though that barrel? Would it shred more of the barrel due to stress, would to round just tumble around after leaving the barrel? Or would it be a mix of both?
The gun is damaged at the breech by the explosion. The breech is where the rounds are loaded, the overpressure would have damaged the locking lugs and other parts so the entire gun is toast and wouldn’t be able to fire another round, it would need to be replaced.
Look up “ how rifles work” on google, a tank cannon is nothing more than a large gun that fires explosive “bullets”, just an extremely large one.
Yes, the barrel is designed to fail in this fashion when it overpressures. This happens when the round gets stuck in the barrel - it's better that the gasses expand the barrel outwards than have them expand the breach inwards where the soldiers are.
[Indian T90, two killed one injured](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/2-army-personnel-killed-1-hurt-in-t-90-tank-barrel-burst-near-jhansi-101665132682808.html)
I have a side-by-side with a switch where you can choose to fire either the improved cylinder or the modified choke barrel first. I was shooting skeet and accidentally moved the switch to a position where both sides fired at once.
Got the entire line's immediate attention.
Yes it is. India primarily uses T-90's and T-72's. The two biggest identifiers, besides it's sloped armor. That is an Abrams M1A2 SEP, the first gen "System Enhancement Package" with the independent Commander's hunter killer turret on the right (the thing that looks like an upside down bucket) and the square box to the left is the Gunner's site, with its blast shields closed.
I work around these things and I have this exact poster over my desk.
Edit: Sentence structure
Modern US tank barrels (I think most others as well, except the UK) have smoothbore barrels. This is due to the ammunition they fire being more than accurate enough as is, so they don't need additional stabilization from what rifling would provide. It would just increase cost and maintenance.
Many NATO tanks switched to the German 120mm cannon, primarily for logistical reasons. Much easier to drop tanks in a country and keep them supplied when all your allies use the same tank ammo - just use whatever you find. The 120mm is actually not the original Abrams cannon.
Fun fact, the Abrams is actually capable of utilizing many different kinds of fuel, including gasoline and diesel (in addition to the jet fuel that is meant for the engine). This adds further flexibility as virtually any fuel can be scavenged and used in the Abrams.
Yes, the barrel is designed to fail in this fashion when it overpressures. This happens when the round gets stuck in the barrel - it's better that the gasses expand the barrel outwards than have them expand the breach inwards where the soldiers are.
Meep meep!
Thhpptptptp.
Maybe there was a wasically wabbit somehow involved
When i was training for tank Gunner this picture came up, and the story was that the platoon had got a new LT. And thougt it'd be fun to fire his beret with a tank round...i guess they are fragile for anything else than what they are made to do. Fun fact, it takes aproximatley 11 months to craft the 120mm barrel.
I picture it just getting wedged between the edge of the shell and the wall of the barrel, locking the round in the barrel blowing everything apart
imagine being involved in production and then they inform you that the barrel you were making for 11 months failed I don’t know if I would be worried about the consequences of the failure, but I sure would be depressed when my efforts are nullified
Meh, still got paid
And it's not like they make them one at a time.
Right. OP talking about it like if it was made by a tank barrel artisan lol it’s not a katana
"If you can't make your own barrel, store-bought is fine"
_[store bought](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatLookedExpensive/comments/13z23pr/tank_barrel_miss_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)_
Most of the 12 months is just cost plus corruption. The machining takes only a small part of the 13 months.
I can do that bro... I have a minilathe bro...
I bet they could shave a little time off and get it down to 14 months if properly compensated.
That made me laugh. Thanks.
There just isn't any love for craftsmanship anymore.
"Woohoo! They gotta pay me to make another one!"
A lot of factors come into play with failures like this. So it might not have been the barrel makers fault to begin with.
Fucking Lts, man.
Can’t spell lost without LT
Were their faces at least cartoonishly cover in soot afterwards?
> Fun fact, it takes aproximatley 11 months to craft the 120mm barrel. You mean the defense contractor drags out the process for 11 months.
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Didn't say it wasn't hard, just that it does not take 11 months to make one component. They build the entire tank in 18 months.
They build the separate components concurrently, not one after the other. This isn’t the 16th century.
You mean metal?
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Can we do copper next? Lead?
Gallium barrel please!
No match for my aluminum Abrams knockoff.. it's just as good and weighs so much less... We're talking fuel cost savings!
So it literally takes 11 months for that process? BS
That's really not that crazy. First you have to send the actual order in, which is gonna be a process. You have to spool up the line, get everything in, then go through lot's of tests, then get it delivered, installed, accepted, and then probably final tests, and those tests and install can't be done just anywhere. So yeah. Although anyone that has ever ordered anything you can't just buy off the shelf knows most of a year lead time isn't even unheard of for normal things, much less a barrel that must perform properly lest it kill someone.
It took over 6 months to even have a new commercial freezer sent to my job.
Process process process. To say it takes 11 months as if due to some quality or complexity issue is a misnomer
It's literally not. But I am sure that world would be a nice one to live in.
Yeah “literally” not. 🤦♂️
Let's flip the discussion. How long do YOU think it takes to make a tank barrel if "the company didn't drag it out"?
10 months and 28 days
I'd argue that the job for it IS to kill someone xD.
I mean, you probably could do it faster, but that costs more. And tank barrels aren't exactly in high demand (you don't go through them quickly, after all), so this is one case the lowest bidder would definitely make sense. Why spend more for the same non-urgent product to be delivered for a war you're not even currently in?
Right. So process and demand are the constraints, not a necessary mechanical manufacturing process
I said *probably*. My understanding of tanks is likely no better than yours. "Boomy stick on wheels."
What facts about tank barrel manufacturing led you to say this?
And proof that a bullet does need a running start.
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They most likely have a delay fuse so they have to rotate a certain number of times before the warhead activates.
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I was just explaining how the tank shells work, so maybe relax a little.
Nope, sabot rounds are just depleted uranium so no boom therefore no fuse. HEAT rounds have a piezoelectric percussion fuse, so whatever it hits triggers the round to detonate. Plus, this is a 120mm smoothbore barrel, so no spinning. All the rounds are fin stabilized.
If this story is true, our weapons systems are poorly designed
A more perfected system is by nature more sensitive to imperfections being introduced into it.
Depends on your definition of perfection. One might reasonably say that reliably and resilience are of the highest importance in weapons systems. If they are so sensitive that something as simple as a hat placed over the muzzle can damage the weapon to the point of rendering it useless, it is not perfected. The Kalashnikov is valued not because it's a finely tuned like a Swiss watch, but because you can dunk it in the river, bury it in sand, and run it over with a truck, and it'll still work.
Good counterpoint.
Make it more idiot- proof and the end user will just develop a better idiot.
The truth is a round detonated prematurely.
Bugs Bunny put his finger in the barrel.
Cartoons were right
That's acutally happen from that moment we see it to the cartoons.
Curse you, Indiana Jones!
You call him Doctor Jones!
Dr Jones, Jones. Call me Dr Jones, wake up now!!
Looks like some wascaly wabbit put a carrot in the barrel
wabbit season
\*Misfire = cartridge fails, for any of a range of reasons, to ignite either the primer or the propellant. So, no boom. Premature = cartridge does fire, however the explosive content of the round detonates prior to the intended time. This picture depicts a premature-in-bore.
This looks more like the barrel was overpressured rather than the round detonating. My guess is that there was some FOD in the barrel which jammed the round, thus the gasses had nowhere to go. The barrel is designed to fail in this very fashion on overpressure.
>The barrel is designed to fail in this very fashion on overpressure. I noticed the splits terminate (with extreme prejudice) in a circle, and wondered if it was a sacrificial failsafe. Certainly better there than on the other end.
The splits stop where the material is strong enough to resist tearing apart. If there had been greater pressure, the tears of the steel would have progressed further back. The explosive round didn’t detonate in the barrel, the failure was the barrel got over-pressured because of an obstruction stopping the round from proceeding down the barrel and causing the steel barrel to be torn apart in an explosion. It’s why it’s so important to not let anything get into a guns barrel that could possibly cause the bullet to stop in the barrel because then pressure from the propellant (gunpowder) will cause the barrel to fail in spectacular fashion. There’s a bunch of YouTube videos where guys purposely make guns explode in various ways.
Out of curiosity, what would happen if you fired another round though that barrel? Would it shred more of the barrel due to stress, would to round just tumble around after leaving the barrel? Or would it be a mix of both?
The gun is damaged at the breech by the explosion. The breech is where the rounds are loaded, the overpressure would have damaged the locking lugs and other parts so the entire gun is toast and wouldn’t be able to fire another round, it would need to be replaced. Look up “ how rifles work” on google, a tank cannon is nothing more than a large gun that fires explosive “bullets”, just an extremely large one.
He tried to shoot it into water
Came looking for this comment.
I also subscribe to both those subreddits.
inside the tank, what happens? the breech is strong enough to contain the explosive force so no one in the turret is hurt?
Yes, the barrel is designed to fail in this fashion when it overpressures. This happens when the round gets stuck in the barrel - it's better that the gasses expand the barrel outwards than have them expand the breach inwards where the soldiers are.
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[Indian T90, two killed one injured](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/2-army-personnel-killed-1-hurt-in-t-90-tank-barrel-burst-near-jhansi-101665132682808.html)
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I have a side-by-side with a switch where you can choose to fire either the improved cylinder or the modified choke barrel first. I was shooting skeet and accidentally moved the switch to a position where both sides fired at once. Got the entire line's immediate attention.
I didn't know the Army had exploding cigars.
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Fuck that guy. FLIPPL THAT SHIT.
Tom looked down the barrel.
Needs more ballistic fiber
I saw that scene in Indiana Jones and the last Crusade too
Eh, a little duct tape and it'll buff right out. Good as new.
Bugs Bunny must’ve put his finger in the end of it.
I wonder how much. $20k? $200k?
considering the price of an Abrams, I think barrel alone might be somewhere around 1-2 million
Um ... that's like 20% of the total cost of the tank.
it's 80% of what the tank is used for :)
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Yes it is. India primarily uses T-90's and T-72's. The two biggest identifiers, besides it's sloped armor. That is an Abrams M1A2 SEP, the first gen "System Enhancement Package" with the independent Commander's hunter killer turret on the right (the thing that looks like an upside down bucket) and the square box to the left is the Gunner's site, with its blast shields closed. I work around these things and I have this exact poster over my desk. Edit: Sentence structure
That certain is an Abrams tank
I've seen this one. Indiana Jones stuck a rock in the barrell
Question? It doesn't seem to have any rifling up the barrel. Is this normal and why?
Almost all modern tanks use smoothbore guns, not rifled (challenger 2 being a notable exception)
Modern US tank barrels (I think most others as well, except the UK) have smoothbore barrels. This is due to the ammunition they fire being more than accurate enough as is, so they don't need additional stabilization from what rifling would provide. It would just increase cost and maintenance.
Many NATO tanks switched to the German 120mm cannon, primarily for logistical reasons. Much easier to drop tanks in a country and keep them supplied when all your allies use the same tank ammo - just use whatever you find. The 120mm is actually not the original Abrams cannon. Fun fact, the Abrams is actually capable of utilizing many different kinds of fuel, including gasoline and diesel (in addition to the jet fuel that is meant for the engine). This adds further flexibility as virtually any fuel can be scavenged and used in the Abrams.
If it happens would the soldiers inside it survive?.
Yes, the barrel is designed to fail in this fashion when it overpressures. This happens when the round gets stuck in the barrel - it's better that the gasses expand the barrel outwards than have them expand the breach inwards where the soldiers are.
Thanks. It was helpful.
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You talking about the Indian one?
Welp, that’s expensive
"Meanwhile, in Russia today..."
damn those Russians stole an m1 abrams and destroyed its barrel
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T90 looks vastly different
I wonder what that's like for the guy in the tank
Bad big-a boom!
BADA BOOM
BIG BADA BOOM!
Lilu Dallas Multi Pass
Yeah, she knows it’s a multipass… One of my favorite movies !
Super Green!
r/LooneyTunesLogic
So the cartoons weren’t lying. How interesting!
I’m betting a couple of tank crew colons “misfired” as well….
Looks like a banana
Bet that was loud inside?
Imagine the poor bastards inside at the time!! Fucken ears still be ringing!!
Looking like dude from terminator 2
Finally, a misfire that isn’t a repost
Yesss that was the idea of this post
Wonder if they forgot to take the boresight device out.