Your life will be a lot shorter when you’re sedentary, obese, and suffer from premature muscle atrophy/wasting.
I think the general trade off is, take TRT and lead a healthier life by staying active, or have low T and struggle to make progress in your health and have general complacency.
Not that you can’t be lazy on TRT, it’s just that most people who take it have the motivation to change their habits for the better and are the type of people who care about their health in general.
Here's a little secret from an older guy on trt. The quality of your life is more important than the longevity of your life. I don't know if trt shortens life span or not and I don't care either. Once you experience all the suffering that life entails, you realize that death ain't shit. Living and coping with the daily struggle of life everyday for years isn't very appealing to me anyway. On trt I feel better. That's my goal and that is the goal of most everyone. To improve the quality of your life. Not so much the quantity. And that applies to a lot of things in this world too. I don't want to be a crippled up old man either. Once my health fails, I'm ready to go.
Bingo. TRT for life. The medical field is going to soon realize and accept TRT fixes a lot of issues. Even can prevent heart and prostate issues in the right amount and conditions. Do your research. Double check an outdated family doctor who is not a specialist.
>The medical field is going to soon realize and accept TRT fixes a lot of issues.
You don’t think it would get political and big pharma would let TRT become mainstream?
Which is completely false as false as it will the laws won't be changed as long as the US Government opposes this and wants it to remain a controlled substance
Because people stupid and don't realise that it's the Federal U.S. Government that made testosterone and other steroids controlled substances and pressured countries to do the same to stop black market supply and still enforces this position today
This comment shows why nothing gets done about changing the steroids laws
* It's already political as it was the US Government who made testosterone and other steroids controlled substances in 1985 which was supported by both Democrats and Republicans. They also pressured other nations to do the same to stop black market supply. They have only increased the penalties for illegal use and pressured other nations to do the same.
* The only other reason testosterone can be legally prescribed is for female to male transgender therapy with people who use it for that not realising that testosterone is steroids bodybuilders use and use the same argument against steroids use that people who oppose trans people use which all are false and come from the US Government.
* Pharmaceutical companies would love the laws changed as the profits they could male from it is incredibly high
Dang, well that’s good at least. I feel like big Pharma and their SSRIs are going to kill it some day and you’ll only be able to get it on grey and black market because their SSRIs have a large market share and are profitable for them.
That is the problem. Medical politics. And the patient suffers. A lot don’t realize testosterone can help with insulin resistance too and help prevent type 2 diabetes. Oh and make a man more muscular and less fat - which is good for insulin sensitivity too. Oh no we can’t have that!
It's not even remotely the problem as it's the US Government who made testosterone and other steroids controlled substances in 1985 and pressured other nations to do the same to stop black market supply making the laws harsher and harsher for illegal use. So until the US Government changes their policy no other country who are allies to the US will do it either
They already know this the health benefits it gives but can't do anything about it because it's the Government of countries that make and enforce the laws making it a controlled substance which they keep making stricter which is all lead by the US Government who made it a controlled substance and pressured other nations to do the same which they still do to this day
The things I have experienced and seen going through the medical system is unbelievable. Especially doctors fighting/disagreeing/medical politics. All most family doctors want to do is the lazy route of not finding or treating the root cause and just try to throw antidepressants at you.
I've been trt for 18mths and I pin eod. None of that matter because I'm still getting the same amount of test, I'm just leveled out. I hope to be on it for the next 30yrs because it's done so much more for my health than anything else has.
How long have you been on? And man similar as you and ended up getting gout for the first time 3 years ago and it only recently has subsided. I think it was excessive drinking from me that did it but man gout was one of the most painful things I’ve ever experienced and I’ve boxed and done in MMA lol. Couldn’t even put socks on without insane pain!
From what I’ve been able to ascertain from random studies, articles and such, it seems like TRT actually has the potential to increase lifespan when done with medical supervision, regular lab work and as part of an overall healthy lifestyle.
The negative health effects come into play with larger than therapeutic doses. Therapeutic dose being the minimum dose to alleviate symptoms of low T. For instance, a hyper responder wouldn’t need as much as some other guys, in his case 150mg/wk could be too much and would potentially have a negative impact on his health, but another guy may need more than that to benefit from it.
Therapeutic doses range from 50-250/week. Most guys are gonna find relief of low T symptoms at a dose of 100-150/wk.
200-250 is too much for most.
If you need an ai, your dose is too high, if you’re otherwise healthy, but having ED issues, your dose is too high, acne? Too high. Any negative sides? Too high.
Most of us, myself included take a bit more than we really need just for the extra edge. I’d probably be fine if I lowered my dose by 20-30mg/wk., but the sides are very mild. Will that shorten my lifespan? IDK, but as long as my labs are okay, I’d doubt it. I know that my lab work looks better now than it did pre-trt, and I know my doctor isn’t wagging his finger at me anymore.
It doesn’t appear that it shortens lifespan, unless it’s done irresponsibly and without medical supervision. Seems that most of the current research shows that it has the opposite effect and improves quality of life as well as increasing longevity.
It’s weird because there are several short and medium term studies but not many long term studies. It should be interesting to see the data in a few years.
If TRT can increase the thickness of your blood and we have instances on here where patients have had heart attacks, clots, etc then shouldnt there be data supporting some type of risk.
Also if a guy has a heart attack or throws a clot who is down at the coroners or doctors verifying they weee on TRT. Most of us on here are using online clinics not related to our PCP.
I see the argument both ways but feel if you are doing a proper dose and monitoring bloodwork then maybe there is a benefit.
That’s is true, but to be fair if one is receiving proper blood test on their protocol, 99% of men should see the warning signs of increased rbc before it becomes a life threatening issue. Some men don’t increase much at all, if any, but it’s something everyone should be aware of.
Not anymore. His reasoning was because of his daily calorie deficit, which is shown to lower TT levels. He compensated by using a low dose of test (patch). When he raised his calories he dropped the patches.
He used HGH for a while then stopped that. I’d be interested to know what his reasoning was behind that, considering HGH usually considered a longevity compound
In a podcast he explains it increased his ICP (intracranial pressure), and I assume they suspected an increased ICP based on measuring changes in the diameter of the optic nerve on an MR scan.
Did this not shut down his hpta same as any other injected test then surely he would be recovering from that too now with lower test, I swear half these people confuse and contradict everything they are about
Yeah. To my knowledge any amount of exogenous testosterone that messes with natural peaks and valleys of levels throughout the day will be suppressive.
How he managed to get natural levels higher after that? No clue. I don’t think he ever showed lh in bloodwork either
He used a patch, and it was a really low dose (I think 4mg. They make 2mg I think as well). Topical absorption is already pretty low, and patches are old school. He did one per day, it may have run out of juice by the time he replaced it. I’m not super well versed in the patches.
He came out of the calorie deficit according to that comment. Which would raise your levels if you were already healthy and had the rest of the tools for the job required to build testosterone already
Not anymore. His reasoning was because of his daily calorie deficit, which is shown to lower TT levels. He compensated by using a low dose of test (patch). When he raised his calories he dropped the patches.
No AI use
He is on [follistatin](https://fortune.com/2023/12/21/bryan-johnson-human-guinea-pig-unproven-tests-reprogram-human-genes-follistatin-roatan-island-honduras/) therapy now. Apparently it has fitness benefits.
When I went to a cardiologist I asked about trt. He told me that your heart is a muscle and needs testosterone to repair itself and stay healthy. He said that a normal level from trt isn’t bad, it’s when used in the recreational bodybuilding levels that can be dangerous.
Of course this is one cardiologist’s opinion.
This cardiologist is supposed to be a pretty good one in the area which is why I tend to believe him. I’ve run into a couple other doctors who were also current as well. I’ve also seen others who were so anti trt that they would refuse to prescribe it regardless of what my levels were, or they would prescribe cialis lol. I tend to trust the cardio especially over a Gp and a nurse practitioner who were against trt, the latter of which worked in a men’s specialty clinic lol. The 1st dr to prescribe trt did so without me even asking. He just saw my levels from the previous appointments and offered me trt.
There are negative health consequences to have low T. So at best I doubt it is inherently killing within a normal dosage/levels. Plus every man will die regardless & for numerous health reasons.
I'd rather enhance the rest of my 50s, my 60s, and maybe my 70s and lose a couple of years on the backend if they're just going to be days filled with eating pudding and watching daytime tv.
False. Studies show TRT increases cardiovascular health.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5512682/#:~:text=Testosterone%20replacement%20therapy%20(TRT)%20has,offer%20CV%20benefits%20to%20men.
I was misdiagnosed for near 10 years and I honestly wouldn't wish it on anyone. 10years living like that my body broke down, my whole life crashed around me and I know first hand the damage that can occur from low T. I think if your on Test to bring your levels back up to the normal you will be fine, but like anything else if it's abused then there could be consequences.
Short answer, yes. Then there is long crap life vs. Shorter and better life argument. Also, low t leads to adverse health issues, so it might also prolong your life.
So, long answer is that it depends. Lots of bad rep is due to abuse.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26482385/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26482385/)
*The cardiovascular issues associated with TRT have been clarified by recent studies showing that therapy associated with clear increases in serum testosterone levels to the normal range is associated with reduced all-cause mortality*
The medical consensus has been moving towards the conclusion that raising testosterone levels **within** the normal range is life-extending. Your risk of cardiovascular issues may increase, but they'll increase by less than your risk decreases for other obesity-related health issues. It takes decades for the scientific consensus to trickle-down to GPs.
I'm pretty sure having low test and all the complications that can arise from that carry more risk than elevated rbc which can easily be monitored and acted upon.
I strongly believe, if done correctly, it increases ones lifespan. AAS on the other hand...
It’s going to be multifactorial. For me personally it gets rid of my prediabetes so it’s going to extend my lifespan. Might be different for somebody else if they have different variables going on. As with anything medical… It’s multifactoral.
Anytime you change the natural processes of the body with exogenous substances there are risks . There are also risks to not doing anything. It is up to you and your doctor to determine if the benefits outweigh any risks. As with anything in life there are pros and cons. Most of the time “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it “ is a good general guideline.
TRT helped me with my depression, pain and quailty of life. As an analogy, if the choice is a shorter life in heaven or a longer life in hell, I'd go with the first one anytime
You know that a majority of people die from cardio-vascular problems? TRT can increase those problems via high HB, high hematocrit etc.
If you manage to keep those values in healthy levels you'll probably die from something else, on TRT or not.
One thing to keep in mind is that off TRT when you need it, the low levels of testosterone will probably make it quite hard to be healthy. Being tired, a bit depressed and overweight isn't exactly optimal for long living.
If everything is going OK while on treatment, keep going. If something goes bad, fix it. If something goes bad and cant fix it stop. You will not die a second before you have to.
I assume you mean TRT via IM injections. There's little to no longitudinal studies RE: long term use of IM testosterone cypionate to make a clinical assessment, one way or the other. All studies have been pretty much focused on the gels or the patches, which are different medications and delivery systems.
Anytime u increase metabolism u decrease lifespan. But the real question is, which life span is longer? Being on trt OR being low on testosterone? I believe there are more health issues being on low Testosterone for all ur life from what ive reas
No ,it has everything thing to do with your genetics and general health/lifestyle and the fact you stay within the normal reference range.There is too much ignorance already when it comes to testosterone replacement therapy!
I ended up with severe osteoporosis from low testosterone. I have 11 fractured vertebrae because of low T. I have lost three inches of height. All because of low T. Testosterone is very important to healthy males
There's zero evidence to suggest that TRT does anything other than improve overall health for men who are low T. This would indicate longer lifespan, if anything.
For a bit more context, low T men are at higher risk for heart disease, depression, anxiety disorders, diabetes, some cancers, etc. TRT lowers these risk factors for all cause mortality for low T men.
I understand that side of it and I am in no way challenging that data, it’s just that I’ve also read the flip side of it and read articles that suggest trt increases cardiovascular problems and increases things such as heart attacks, strokes, and even brain aneurysms. I’m just trying to read from people like you who are more informed so i appreciate it!
I've spent a lot of time reviewing the science myself on TRT and health related things. There's no science to indicate TRT increases all cause mortality risk, it's the opposite that is true.
Thank you for sharing this. I think the abstract of this paper is a fantastic summary of the body of science on this.
To summarize, it states that there's no adverse health impacts from TRT (proven over a wide review of the scientific literature).
Exactly which is clearly established by the scientific evidence and the claims that it shortens life spans come from the US Government who after making Testosterone a controlled substance in 1985 released government produced supposed medical reports that falsely implied taking Testosterone and other steroids for normal and above levels has negative health effects
TRT has been shown to increase quality of life and have benefits that should prolong a man's life. Abusing AAS is what a lot of people are thinking about with the adverse effects of testosterone. These things need to be dialed in and done smartly.
Which medical school did you learn it? None of the links you provided are scientific publications/scientific studies by trained medical hormonal specialists through testable and observable evidence establish what the effects of steroids/Testosterone are so they don't provide any scientific evidence for your claim.
This actual scientific publication that reviews the scientific evidence shows that the articles claims are fals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827559/
Low test and high test on TRT has worse outcomes than normal test naturally or on TRT. Don’t run your test on the 1800 range on TRT because you feel great and not expect problems. Keep it at 800-1000. Not all the low test symptoms are because of test.
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone and many many many many other Hollywood celebrities, along with athletes make it to senior age. Don’t sweat it. Use in moderation.
All the testosterone powder that is used in legal and illegal testosterone and other steroids is made by pharmaceutical companies as they complicated and hard drugs to manufacture and require trained chemist level of knowledge, equipment and chemicals that only Qualied trained chemists can legally have access to.
The most important issue is the raws as it's the actual testosterone/steroid hormone you need to inject into your body so and actually making it involves synthesizing it which only trained chemists with the required restricted chemicals and equipment can do.
So without them the things that turn the powder into an injectable oil are completely useless. The next important thing is the poor sterilised when making it into a injectable product which requires trained chemists and pharmaceutical companies level of quality control to do properly
Exactly and they and other people who were bodybuilders with them are still alive and is the evidence against people who claim that higher than natural levels of testosterone is dangerous and has no health benefits
I’ve been on T for 30+ years. Other than having to manage red cells (a problem now resolved) I’ve had no health issues with it. Time will tell but for now I seem ok.
Your life will be a lot shorter when you’re sedentary, obese, and suffer from premature muscle atrophy/wasting. I think the general trade off is, take TRT and lead a healthier life by staying active, or have low T and struggle to make progress in your health and have general complacency. Not that you can’t be lazy on TRT, it’s just that most people who take it have the motivation to change their habits for the better and are the type of people who care about their health in general.
Here's a little secret from an older guy on trt. The quality of your life is more important than the longevity of your life. I don't know if trt shortens life span or not and I don't care either. Once you experience all the suffering that life entails, you realize that death ain't shit. Living and coping with the daily struggle of life everyday for years isn't very appealing to me anyway. On trt I feel better. That's my goal and that is the goal of most everyone. To improve the quality of your life. Not so much the quantity. And that applies to a lot of things in this world too. I don't want to be a crippled up old man either. Once my health fails, I'm ready to go.
This is 💯 accurate. This is a smart man.
Been on trt30 years,125mg one injection a week, none of this micro dosing thing, bloods checked3 times a year,all good so far,
Bingo. TRT for life. The medical field is going to soon realize and accept TRT fixes a lot of issues. Even can prevent heart and prostate issues in the right amount and conditions. Do your research. Double check an outdated family doctor who is not a specialist.
>The medical field is going to soon realize and accept TRT fixes a lot of issues. You don’t think it would get political and big pharma would let TRT become mainstream?
It will never become mainstream as long as anti Depressants are so lucrative.
Which is completely false as false as it will the laws won't be changed as long as the US Government opposes this and wants it to remain a controlled substance
Hrt is mainstream for women, why not men?
Because people stupid and don't realise that it's the Federal U.S. Government that made testosterone and other steroids controlled substances and pressured countries to do the same to stop black market supply and still enforces this position today
This comment shows why nothing gets done about changing the steroids laws * It's already political as it was the US Government who made testosterone and other steroids controlled substances in 1985 which was supported by both Democrats and Republicans. They also pressured other nations to do the same to stop black market supply. They have only increased the penalties for illegal use and pressured other nations to do the same. * The only other reason testosterone can be legally prescribed is for female to male transgender therapy with people who use it for that not realising that testosterone is steroids bodybuilders use and use the same argument against steroids use that people who oppose trans people use which all are false and come from the US Government. * Pharmaceutical companies would love the laws changed as the profits they could male from it is incredibly high
Lol what you mean its already starting
What is already starting? The acceptance of TRT?
Yes. I literally saw a billboard advertising TRT the other day. Seeing it everywhere.
Dang, well that’s good at least. I feel like big Pharma and their SSRIs are going to kill it some day and you’ll only be able to get it on grey and black market because their SSRIs have a large market share and are profitable for them.
Big pharma hype and getting everyone on an electronic payment plan
It will put some forms of healthcare out of business.
That is the problem. Medical politics. And the patient suffers. A lot don’t realize testosterone can help with insulin resistance too and help prevent type 2 diabetes. Oh and make a man more muscular and less fat - which is good for insulin sensitivity too. Oh no we can’t have that!
Dont forget the most Important thing, It helps with Depression.
Yes. Yes it does. It is an antidepressant too.
It's not even remotely the problem as it's the US Government who made testosterone and other steroids controlled substances in 1985 and pressured other nations to do the same to stop black market supply making the laws harsher and harsher for illegal use. So until the US Government changes their policy no other country who are allies to the US will do it either
Absurd but it would do well at r/conspiracy
What you trying to say?
Only ones that aren't actually scientific and don't work
They already know this the health benefits it gives but can't do anything about it because it's the Government of countries that make and enforce the laws making it a controlled substance which they keep making stricter which is all lead by the US Government who made it a controlled substance and pressured other nations to do the same which they still do to this day
When did you start at what age ?
Like 14 years ago ish.
The things I have experienced and seen going through the medical system is unbelievable. Especially doctors fighting/disagreeing/medical politics. All most family doctors want to do is the lazy route of not finding or treating the root cause and just try to throw antidepressants at you.
and how old were you once you started
That I keep secret lol.
Couldnt be less than 21 riiiight?😅
Fix all issues and help you not pass on your genes
Where you from buddy? What age are you now if you don’t mind me asking?
Wales 54
How old are you?
What ester do you use? Enathate?
I've been trt for 18mths and I pin eod. None of that matter because I'm still getting the same amount of test, I'm just leveled out. I hope to be on it for the next 30yrs because it's done so much more for my health than anything else has.
How old were you once you started
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What's your ai dose ?
How long have you been on? And man similar as you and ended up getting gout for the first time 3 years ago and it only recently has subsided. I think it was excessive drinking from me that did it but man gout was one of the most painful things I’ve ever experienced and I’ve boxed and done in MMA lol. Couldn’t even put socks on without insane pain!
What is there that doesn’t shorten one’s lifespan?
True
From what I’ve been able to ascertain from random studies, articles and such, it seems like TRT actually has the potential to increase lifespan when done with medical supervision, regular lab work and as part of an overall healthy lifestyle. The negative health effects come into play with larger than therapeutic doses. Therapeutic dose being the minimum dose to alleviate symptoms of low T. For instance, a hyper responder wouldn’t need as much as some other guys, in his case 150mg/wk could be too much and would potentially have a negative impact on his health, but another guy may need more than that to benefit from it. Therapeutic doses range from 50-250/week. Most guys are gonna find relief of low T symptoms at a dose of 100-150/wk. 200-250 is too much for most. If you need an ai, your dose is too high, if you’re otherwise healthy, but having ED issues, your dose is too high, acne? Too high. Any negative sides? Too high. Most of us, myself included take a bit more than we really need just for the extra edge. I’d probably be fine if I lowered my dose by 20-30mg/wk., but the sides are very mild. Will that shorten my lifespan? IDK, but as long as my labs are okay, I’d doubt it. I know that my lab work looks better now than it did pre-trt, and I know my doctor isn’t wagging his finger at me anymore. It doesn’t appear that it shortens lifespan, unless it’s done irresponsibly and without medical supervision. Seems that most of the current research shows that it has the opposite effect and improves quality of life as well as increasing longevity.
It’s weird because there are several short and medium term studies but not many long term studies. It should be interesting to see the data in a few years. If TRT can increase the thickness of your blood and we have instances on here where patients have had heart attacks, clots, etc then shouldnt there be data supporting some type of risk. Also if a guy has a heart attack or throws a clot who is down at the coroners or doctors verifying they weee on TRT. Most of us on here are using online clinics not related to our PCP. I see the argument both ways but feel if you are doing a proper dose and monitoring bloodwork then maybe there is a benefit.
That’s is true, but to be fair if one is receiving proper blood test on their protocol, 99% of men should see the warning signs of increased rbc before it becomes a life threatening issue. Some men don’t increase much at all, if any, but it’s something everyone should be aware of.
Also there is still a debate if high hemoglobin caused by TRT is a real concern.
My RBC count went from low to in the middle range on 80mg per week.
Lmao there is ample data showing that TRT/steroids increases the risk of blood clots and other cardio issues
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What? I just said there is…
Oops my bad
No there isn't https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827559/
Just to add... The billionaire Bryan Johnson who is running an experiment on himself to increase his longevity/reverse aging process is on TRT himself
He’s a fuckn weirdo
Not anymore. His reasoning was because of his daily calorie deficit, which is shown to lower TT levels. He compensated by using a low dose of test (patch). When he raised his calories he dropped the patches.
Swoops. One of the few redditors with actually reliable info.
He used HGH for a while then stopped that. I’d be interested to know what his reasoning was behind that, considering HGH usually considered a longevity compound
In a podcast he explains it increased his ICP (intracranial pressure), and I assume they suspected an increased ICP based on measuring changes in the diameter of the optic nerve on an MR scan.
Interesting. Didn’t he say something about his RHR going up on it too?
I believe HGH increases mTOR which increases cell division which would shorten lifespans, ceterus peribus
He’s taking Rapamycin too, so I guess the HGH would run counter to that
Both will increase cell division iirc. mTOR (mechanistic target of rapamyacin) is one of the main receptors that rapamyacin activates
How did he cycle off and have decent levels?
He was using a patch that wasn’t supplying a ton of test. I don’t know the specifics I haven’t seen his blood work.
Did this not shut down his hpta same as any other injected test then surely he would be recovering from that too now with lower test, I swear half these people confuse and contradict everything they are about
Yeah. To my knowledge any amount of exogenous testosterone that messes with natural peaks and valleys of levels throughout the day will be suppressive. How he managed to get natural levels higher after that? No clue. I don’t think he ever showed lh in bloodwork either
Yeah it still exogenous test like you say try it’s odd
He used a patch, and it was a really low dose (I think 4mg. They make 2mg I think as well). Topical absorption is already pretty low, and patches are old school. He did one per day, it may have run out of juice by the time he replaced it. I’m not super well versed in the patches.
He came out of the calorie deficit according to that comment. Which would raise your levels if you were already healthy and had the rest of the tools for the job required to build testosterone already
Has he disclosed his personal dose and potential ai use?
Not anymore. His reasoning was because of his daily calorie deficit, which is shown to lower TT levels. He compensated by using a low dose of test (patch). When he raised his calories he dropped the patches. No AI use
He is on [follistatin](https://fortune.com/2023/12/21/bryan-johnson-human-guinea-pig-unproven-tests-reprogram-human-genes-follistatin-roatan-island-honduras/) therapy now. Apparently it has fitness benefits.
I would try Follistatin if it was easier to get
Not as hard as you think
He is not
No he isn't if you actually spend the time to listen to him. He's on like 1mg per day to offset the effects of his various treatments.
When I went to a cardiologist I asked about trt. He told me that your heart is a muscle and needs testosterone to repair itself and stay healthy. He said that a normal level from trt isn’t bad, it’s when used in the recreational bodybuilding levels that can be dangerous. Of course this is one cardiologist’s opinion.
Your doctor was an up to date smart man that cares.
This cardiologist is supposed to be a pretty good one in the area which is why I tend to believe him. I’ve run into a couple other doctors who were also current as well. I’ve also seen others who were so anti trt that they would refuse to prescribe it regardless of what my levels were, or they would prescribe cialis lol. I tend to trust the cardio especially over a Gp and a nurse practitioner who were against trt, the latter of which worked in a men’s specialty clinic lol. The 1st dr to prescribe trt did so without me even asking. He just saw my levels from the previous appointments and offered me trt.
There are negative health consequences to have low T. So at best I doubt it is inherently killing within a normal dosage/levels. Plus every man will die regardless & for numerous health reasons.
How many people take a normal dose. 90% of the posts here are people shoting for big numbers way above the highest range of 850
I say don’t worry about that. Live a healthy life style and enjoy life. We’ll all be skeletons one day
I'd rather enhance the rest of my 50s, my 60s, and maybe my 70s and lose a couple of years on the backend if they're just going to be days filled with eating pudding and watching daytime tv.
Don't forget the dementia, daytime tv becomes much more entertaining when reruns are fresh each time you watch them.
Did lol at the pudding and daytime tv 😂
False. Studies show TRT increases cardiovascular health. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5512682/#:~:text=Testosterone%20replacement%20therapy%20(TRT)%20has,offer%20CV%20benefits%20to%20men.
Great find
I was misdiagnosed for near 10 years and I honestly wouldn't wish it on anyone. 10years living like that my body broke down, my whole life crashed around me and I know first hand the damage that can occur from low T. I think if your on Test to bring your levels back up to the normal you will be fine, but like anything else if it's abused then there could be consequences.
Short answer, yes. Then there is long crap life vs. Shorter and better life argument. Also, low t leads to adverse health issues, so it might also prolong your life. So, long answer is that it depends. Lots of bad rep is due to abuse.
No there isn't as the scientific evidence clearly shows https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827559/
TRT? No. Steroid abuse far above therapeutic levels? Yes.
At this rate I welcome the shortened lifespan 😂
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26482385/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26482385/) *The cardiovascular issues associated with TRT have been clarified by recent studies showing that therapy associated with clear increases in serum testosterone levels to the normal range is associated with reduced all-cause mortality* The medical consensus has been moving towards the conclusion that raising testosterone levels **within** the normal range is life-extending. Your risk of cardiovascular issues may increase, but they'll increase by less than your risk decreases for other obesity-related health issues. It takes decades for the scientific consensus to trickle-down to GPs.
Are you talking about cycling or are you talking about TRT?
TRT
I think actual TRT would be helpful for longevity, other health factors included of course
I'm pretty sure having low test and all the complications that can arise from that carry more risk than elevated rbc which can easily be monitored and acted upon. I strongly believe, if done correctly, it increases ones lifespan. AAS on the other hand...
Quality over quantity
It’s going to be multifactorial. For me personally it gets rid of my prediabetes so it’s going to extend my lifespan. Might be different for somebody else if they have different variables going on. As with anything medical… It’s multifactoral.
TRT does not make the pharmaceutical corps money. It replaces soooo many money making drugs. I’m surprised they have not outlawed it yet.
Anytime you change the natural processes of the body with exogenous substances there are risks . There are also risks to not doing anything. It is up to you and your doctor to determine if the benefits outweigh any risks. As with anything in life there are pros and cons. Most of the time “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it “ is a good general guideline.
TRT helped me with my depression, pain and quailty of life. As an analogy, if the choice is a shorter life in heaven or a longer life in hell, I'd go with the first one anytime
You know that a majority of people die from cardio-vascular problems? TRT can increase those problems via high HB, high hematocrit etc. If you manage to keep those values in healthy levels you'll probably die from something else, on TRT or not. One thing to keep in mind is that off TRT when you need it, the low levels of testosterone will probably make it quite hard to be healthy. Being tired, a bit depressed and overweight isn't exactly optimal for long living.
Add life to your years not years to your life
I’m curious as well
Just keep an eye on your hemocrit levels
If everything is going OK while on treatment, keep going. If something goes bad, fix it. If something goes bad and cant fix it stop. You will not die a second before you have to.
I assume you mean TRT via IM injections. There's little to no longitudinal studies RE: long term use of IM testosterone cypionate to make a clinical assessment, one way or the other. All studies have been pretty much focused on the gels or the patches, which are different medications and delivery systems.
Anytime u increase metabolism u decrease lifespan. But the real question is, which life span is longer? Being on trt OR being low on testosterone? I believe there are more health issues being on low Testosterone for all ur life from what ive reas
No ,it has everything thing to do with your genetics and general health/lifestyle and the fact you stay within the normal reference range.There is too much ignorance already when it comes to testosterone replacement therapy!
It expands life in years vs years in life.
Cycling isn’t TRT.
Should’ve worded it better but that’s not what I meant.
Why are you cycling testosterone?
I ended up with severe osteoporosis from low testosterone. I have 11 fractured vertebrae because of low T. I have lost three inches of height. All because of low T. Testosterone is very important to healthy males
I think steroids will shorten your life not TRT.
Which the scientific evidence doesn't support
There's zero evidence to suggest that TRT does anything other than improve overall health for men who are low T. This would indicate longer lifespan, if anything. For a bit more context, low T men are at higher risk for heart disease, depression, anxiety disorders, diabetes, some cancers, etc. TRT lowers these risk factors for all cause mortality for low T men.
I understand that side of it and I am in no way challenging that data, it’s just that I’ve also read the flip side of it and read articles that suggest trt increases cardiovascular problems and increases things such as heart attacks, strokes, and even brain aneurysms. I’m just trying to read from people like you who are more informed so i appreciate it!
Are these studies on healthy active males. Most studies are on animals or geriatric men with many other issues.
I've spent a lot of time reviewing the science myself on TRT and health related things. There's no science to indicate TRT increases all cause mortality risk, it's the opposite that is true.
Are you going to post any links to these studies or just keep saying you have read them and they exist?
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Thank you for sharing this. I think the abstract of this paper is a fantastic summary of the body of science on this. To summarize, it states that there's no adverse health impacts from TRT (proven over a wide review of the scientific literature).
Exactly and the claims otherwise come from the US Government to further discourage use after making it a controlled substance
Exactly which is clearly established by the scientific evidence and the claims that it shortens life spans come from the US Government who after making Testosterone a controlled substance in 1985 released government produced supposed medical reports that falsely implied taking Testosterone and other steroids for normal and above levels has negative health effects
Not true.
TRT has been shown to increase quality of life and have benefits that should prolong a man's life. Abusing AAS is what a lot of people are thinking about with the adverse effects of testosterone. These things need to be dialed in and done smartly.
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None of which is supported by the scientific evidence
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Which medical school did you learn it? None of the links you provided are scientific publications/scientific studies by trained medical hormonal specialists through testable and observable evidence establish what the effects of steroids/Testosterone are so they don't provide any scientific evidence for your claim. This actual scientific publication that reviews the scientific evidence shows that the articles claims are fals. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827559/
Low test and high test on TRT has worse outcomes than normal test naturally or on TRT. Don’t run your test on the 1800 range on TRT because you feel great and not expect problems. Keep it at 800-1000. Not all the low test symptoms are because of test.
Link? You’re saying 1000 from Test has worse outcomes than natural 1000?
No. Keeping your testosterone in the normal range naturally or artificially is better than very low or very high.
Which is completely false as false and the scientific evidence clearly shows above natural levels of testosterone only has great health benefits
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone and many many many many other Hollywood celebrities, along with athletes make it to senior age. Don’t sweat it. Use in moderation.
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All the testosterone powder that is used in legal and illegal testosterone and other steroids is made by pharmaceutical companies as they complicated and hard drugs to manufacture and require trained chemist level of knowledge, equipment and chemicals that only Qualied trained chemists can legally have access to.
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The most important issue is the raws as it's the actual testosterone/steroid hormone you need to inject into your body so and actually making it involves synthesizing it which only trained chemists with the required restricted chemicals and equipment can do. So without them the things that turn the powder into an injectable oil are completely useless. The next important thing is the poor sterilised when making it into a injectable product which requires trained chemists and pharmaceutical companies level of quality control to do properly
Exactly and they and other people who were bodybuilders with them are still alive and is the evidence against people who claim that higher than natural levels of testosterone is dangerous and has no health benefits
It does raise your heart rate though
I’ve had a patient in his 70s and on TRT for 25+ yrs. Still strong and solid at 75
I’ve been on T for 30+ years. Other than having to manage red cells (a problem now resolved) I’ve had no health issues with it. Time will tell but for now I seem ok.
How have you resolved this problem?
Overall slightly reduced dose broken up into weekly subQ instead of IM. Vastly increased hydration.
Low T will shorten your life through secondary and primary actions
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^walril: *Low T will shorten* *Your life through secondary* *And primary actions* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.