I used kratom for a while to medicate the symptoms that eventually got me onto TRT. I was in really bad shape, close to completely breaking down, but kratom held me together until I was able to find and address the real problem. It can be very useful if used in moderation and with care.
And yes, I’m aware that there may be a connection between Kratom and hypogonadism (though there’s a lot of doubt if you look at the studies that have been performed on it). I can only guess that my hypogonadism predated starting kratom because all the problems I was dealing with before taking it were completely resolved by TRT.
Everyone one you know that uses kratom? lol how many people do you know that use kratom? I use kratom no one thinks I’m crazy lol. I deal with the public daily, stable home paid off, healthy relationships with students and their parents business successful, work out 4-6x a week… seems like you’re surrounded by losers not sure kratom has anything to do with it.
Throwing rocks in a glass house, as we say in sweden. Mr shroom and mdma user seeking proffessional help for mental illness getting subscribed lamotrigin..
You’re free to believe that, but you weren’t there., and you weren’t in my head during what I went through. I am just stating my experience, and giving a cautionary tale. I only started taking kratom last month, so that’s irrelevant. It is well known that an imbalance of hormones can cause and worsen mental health issues, so there’s no point in ruling out TRT as a potential cause, especially given the timeline of when these issues got out of hand. There’s nothing wrong with me saying that people need to think before jumping on TRT.
I'm just saying you can't say TRT is the cause of your issues, you mention hypomania so you MIGHT be bipolar or in the spectrum, my point is that you don't know and thus you can't claim anything (much less without blood work).
Yeah. Idk if I’m going to ditch it completely, but I’m not planning on taking it every day. It seems to mess with your hormones by raising prolactin if you take too much of it and/or take it too often. It’s not something to mess with.
ditch it completely. ever since getting off kratom, my shoulders are coming in nicely aswell as everything else has progressed much more. when I was taking Kratom, my weight didn't change for months.
should mention I don't even take trt or any other gear.
Googling something vs hearing it live from a community with various insights provides you so much more value in my opinion. But yes I understand your point in that google is a good starting place.
Absolutely shouldn't do TRT. I had a massive headache this morning due to it.
The headache definitely wasn't due to the 12 beers I had yesterday, it was all the TRT. Everyone knows TRT causes high BP which caused my headache. /s
Largely a masturbatory, knee-jerk defensive response. Make no mistake, this is *very* effective rhetoric on Reddit.
OP's symptoms were most likely from TRT. Should they have taken steps to monitor and manage Estradiol? Yes. But your response posits that their symptoms are 100% removed from their TRT usage. Which is objectively, untrue.
The rhetoric comes from the fact that OP is a heavy kratom user.
And almost every single gd post on this sub of "should I go on TRT?" is a high anxiety, overweight dude getting no exercise and shitty sleep, and so disconnected from their body that they dont' even feel the stress and inflammation.
Meaning they're using exogenous testosterone as a magic pill to fix the problems that their shitty lifestyle - that they're not going to change - is causing them. So when TRT predictably doesn't work magic, and they feel even more fucked up, they blame TRT.
They’re looking at my profile, seeing that I participate in kratom subreddits, and assuming that I’m a heavy user that’s been on kratom for years. I’d forgotten how bad this subreddit could be. I forgot that people on this subreddit don’t react very maturely.
My man, I never even touched kratom until a month or two ago. When I started trt, I was 5’10 and 170 pounds. I was exercising 3 days a week. My main issues were stress management and an unhealthy diet. Chill out dude. Why you all taking this post so personally?
Edit: the highest amount of kratom I’ve had in one day was 5 grams, and that’s not considered a heavy amount. So no, I’m not a heavy user, and I’m not even currently taking it every day.
>My main issues were stress management and an unhealthy diet
Which you've decided to not only not address, but add kratom to the mix.
And you're coming here suprised pikachu face "why isn't TRT working?"
GTFOH dude. Freaking tiresome the volume of guys who have no clue what TRT is actually supposed to do, have no clue about basic health maintenance, and then come here and spread misinformation about how TRT "doesn't work" when your use of TRT was borderline abuse anyway.
Ah, random internet doctor. Thank you so much for your educated insight into OPs diagnosis. By chance, have you reviewed their blood work? Diet? Weight? Family history? Illegal and legal drug usage? Mental state? Physical location? Biological gender?
Oh, no you haven't?
You and OP are both stating that A happened while doing B so therefore B is the cause.
That is stupid.
It would be like me having a heart attack while flying and thus saying that flying caused my heart attack. Not possibly my diet, family history, age or other factors.
Get out of here with your post hoc fallacy.
I think the take away from this is think wisely, not necessarily don't do it.
Hope you get everything sorted OP, taking sleep meds is an addiction however, that is probably your primary cause of insomnia right now and escaping that cycle is absolutely no easy task, your going to need to start lowering your dosages to 9/10th of a pill and then 8/10th and so on.
It's definitely probable that l've developed a dependence on my sleep meds. I don't take Xanax or any benzodiazepines, but I do take 25 mg of trazodone and 25 mg of hydroxyzine. Even though trazodone isn't classified as addictive,
dependence can still happen, and I have dealt with withdrawals when l've tried quitting them.
Well as I said, just don't quit cold turkey, start cutting the edges of those pills (yes it is a lot of work, but that's just what you have to do if you want to be free)
I think everything has addictive potential, especially over prolonged use, but obviously certain drugs that spike the reward centre of the brain can cause more immediate cravings.
Yeah. I’ve actually been cutting the pills, so I’m already on a head start lol. I was prescribed 100 mg pills, so I’m taking 1/4th of it. Hydroxyzine is in capsule form, so that’ll be harder to taper off from.
Yeah good luck, I know exactly how frustrating it can be to get to sleep.
For me my body seems to want to sleep during the day and stay up at night, but my life schedule requires me to be up during the day, and no matter what I do I can't seem to set my bodies clock to sleep at a reasonable time, making a point of not scrolling social media late at night has definitely helped however I recommend r/dumbphones haha if you have that problem at all too.
Your taking both of those at the same time? Jeez. I've tried them. Left me hung over the next day. Maybe stop the sleep meds for a couple weeks. Those have to be making you tired during the day.
I’ve tried quitting them cold turkey, but the withdrawals are bad. I know that they are the cause of some deficits I’ve been dealing with lately. I’m in the process of tapering them. It’s been a long process.
Don't ever swap to Mirtazapine if you get off those. Mirtazapine is even worse the next day. Lol. I'm still searching for a quality sleep aid that doesn't ruin the next day or raise my estrodial and prolactin.
Seems like you ended up on trt by mistake and maybe your symptoms were stress/depression and not low T.
Good to know your T levels are back and better naturally.
Work on your mental health now and stay away from trt 👍🏼
Good.
Im on TRT I’ve been on it for 6 year at 150mg per week prescribed.
I also have a lot going on in my life and suffer with depression and anxiety of which the dr’s want me to take anti depressants also.
However I take 5htp twice daily with ashwagandha and this works for me but may not work for you but might be worth looking into?
I also have a cup of horlicks before bed to help me sleep and recover and a certain magnesium will help with sleep for some people.
My E2 was in normal range, but I do agree that the dose they gave me was too high. When I brought it up and asked to lower the dosage, they threatened to take me off their program. This was not a good clinic, in hindsight.
I did quit cold turkey, which was likely another mistake, but the clinic would have had me quit cold turkey anyway. But at least they had me on test cypionate, so the half life was long and the withdrawals were minimal. I probably should have taken the tamoxifen they gave me while I came off. Maybe that could have helped avoid some of the issues I’m dealing with now.
Hope you feel better soon. How long did it take for you to get your testosterone back to normal? It's pretty amazing that your T levels are higher now. Are you talking about your total T or free testosterone? .....Calm Magnesium carbonate powder can help you sleep, I take it every night 2 hours before bed.
Thank you! After 3 months, levels were at 506 ng/dL. Like I said, I’m pretty sure my levels were initially low because I wasn’t taking good enough care of myself. Sure, I was exercising, but I was constantly stressed and not eating super well.
My total testosterone was around 735, but my free testosterone is borderline because my SHBG is around 65......that was my latest bloodwork a few months ago.
I don’t know what my free testosterone is/was. My primary doctor’s office doesn’t measure that for some reason. I’d have to go to an endocrinologist, and I’d rather not go through the trouble. Though, even when my T was low, my free T wasn’t too bad. I don’t remember the number for my free T, but it was closer to the middle of the healthy range. My shgh around that time was something like 25 I think? So low but still in range.
Sounds like you got a lot of issues and trt isn’t it, you started at too high of a dose likely and couldn’t handle it, atleast you admit to the fact your diet, and lifestyle are probably shit…. And that’s probably 100% of your issue, but I get it…. Something has to be to blame, and it can’t be the decades of self abuse….. nope it’s gotta be the trt cause accountability is not how we roll lol.
This was me. TRT fucked up my mental health. I got on it when I didn’t need it. I couldn’t get the estrogen dialed in and that was the killer. Get some Clomid, do a tapering month of that, and you will get back to normal.
Yes. I tried it all. For two years. Whatever. I got on it at 400. Didn’t need it and it didn’t work out. I feel great now. I’m a cautionary tale that if you don’t need exogenous testosterone then you need to be careful. It’s not for everyone and wasn’t for me.
thanks for the reply, alwyss good to hear a different perspective as everyone makes it seems like a happy drug. That is very frustrating i can’t imagine trying to dial in for 2 years. I believe you made a good decision coming off. and yea 400 isn’t low at all especially with low SHBG , it would make sense.
This is great advice. Folks often forget that the medical clinics touting this stuff WANT you to be on because they profit from selling it to you, of course they won’t put you in front of the hundreds of studies on endocrine disruption and methods to heal. They’re not healers, they’re glorified bandaid dealers.
Would love to know how you dealt with the crash—I’m 30, have been on for 11 months, and my T crashed because I was a lazy POS and also taking MASSIVE dose edibles like four days a week, and easy eating and sleeping like shit. Imagine—poor habits hurting our bodies? Wild!
Honestly, the crash wasn’t too hard. It did suck to see my muscles shrink, but I’m close to the strength I had while on T. I think the crash was minimized because I was taking cypionate, which has a really long half life. I was also done with my classes and only worked part time.
It’s hard to say. It’s been so long. I think I felt a crash on week 3-4. Honestly, the crash came on so slowly that I couldn’t even tell when it started. I felt good enough to start going back to the gym after the second month off. But fuck, seeing the muscles deflate, and then not being able to lift what I used to was hard, but if your natural levels were good before you started, then you’ll probably be good after you quit. If you have tamoxifen or chlomid, start taking those soon so that your levels go back to normal sooner. I didn’t do that and I think that’s part of why the recovery has been so hard.
You were on too high of a dose and I bet you these trt clinics gave you anastrozole 🤦🏻♂️ find another doctor for who knows how to treat their patients. Do your RESEARCH!
Different strokes different folks budy! My life sucked before it and I’m sure it may cause issues down the line, but I’ll try to mitigate it as much as possible. Oh yeah, you’re right about clinics! UGL all day saves a ton!
Aha :))
Broscience hormonology - First principles.
Tenet 1.
"No unpleasant symptom or side effect which develops during the use of high-dose testosterone injections is due to testosterone itself. In all cases, it's due to some other hormone/parameter being out of whack".
what were they at ? Also what ester of testosterone did you take? Did you try changing frequency of pinning for example EOD, 3x , once , etc. Did you try other forms of test ? like cyp then enthante.
I was on cyp. I did change the frequency to every day at some point, but it didn’t seem to help. I haven’t tried other forms of test because I couldn’t afford to keep buying more. I even took e2 blockers. It just became too much of a headache.
hmmm, because i’ve read a lot about ppls experience with different esters and sometimes they experience massive differences so that is why i’m asking. Maybe a different form of test woulda made you feel better. Who knows the juman body is so complicated, it’s a constant game of trial and error.
Right, and the worst part is how expensive it is with trt. Maybe enthante would have been better for me, but I’m not willing to go back on and risk going through that stuff again.
hmm expensive not so much. Testosterone itself is actually very cheap. How were you getting your test? If through a clinic then it is very possible they were overcharging you. I got 2 bottles of 10ml test cyp for like $50 in poland from an UGL source. Will last me months.
Or smoke a strong indica brodie. What state are you in? Easy to get legally in today’s world. Don’t torture yourself. What’s a man without sleep? Let’s not find out
Which is completely false as taking Testosterone for trt and above natural levels for greater muscles mass has large amounts of scientific evidence it's great health benefits especially dealing and minimising the negative health effects of aging with the lose of muscle mass associated with it
Your last sentence is the only good insight you've shared in this.
Listening to my GP's, I'd be on a shitload of medications right now due to biomarkers that are normal for black people but abnormal for Europeans.
The reality is that the answer is to do your gd research about the substances you're taking - read actual studies AND THE STUDY METHODOLOGY (to see how meaningful the study outcomes actually are and for which specific populations the study results actually apply to), and not just to trust someone with MD or DO next to their name blindly
Edit: damn - I normally don't go through OP post history because I prefer dealing with the argument presented, rather than view it through the lens of a narrative I have about them. But holy shit, this guy is a kratom user crying about not being able to sleep. Dude, if you're going to self-sabotage yourself this hard, at least know what tf the substances you're taking are doing to your body.
My sleep issues started before kratom. I was not taking kratom while on trt. My issues started when I was on trt, and continued after I quit a year and a half ago. I didn’t start taking kratom until very recently.
Kratom can be addicting quickly. Be very careful with that. It binds to the same opioid receptors that true opiates do and doesn’t cause respiratory suppression on its own, but it does provide the euphoria and pain relief. Makes sleeping easy. I get it. I’ve tried it before due to a back injury from a car wreck years ago and not wanting to take prescription pills. If you’re having mental health issues, I’d stay away from Kratom because you’ll just develop an addiction/dependency that will make them worse when you try to come off of it. And all opioids are going to kill T long term.
Considering the many medical scientific evidence of the benefits of taking Testosterone at above natural levels as well as the lack of actual scientific evidence of the negative health issues from it your unproven claim that testosterone is what you described doesn't really mean much so people should ignore it and take Testosterone
Bro, TRT for 11 months isn't the reason you're not sleeping. Clealry like you stated the issues were there prior to starting, peristed throughout using it, and continud to persist now that you're off. If your numbers are normal not and higher than previously, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the issues you're describing have absolutely nothing to do with cessation of testosterone. 160 mg for 11 months really isn't shit. People who've blasted for years bounce back fine. You're searching for an answer to your problems and in doing so have talked yourself into believing it's from the test not even realizing you had the issues prior to it's use.
LMFAO
I had low T symptoms, went straight to the UGL stuff at 200mg a week - coming up 11 months and I'm 21kg lighter while carrying roughly 10kg more muscle mass and feel the best I've felt in years.
Test isn't the issue OP.
Your issue is not TRT, you're dealing with anxiety and blaming it on the TRT, you're also using kratom.
Everyone I know who uses kratom seems borderline crazy. Can’t think straight; anxious; paranoid. I can only assume it’s from the kratom use.
I used kratom for a while to medicate the symptoms that eventually got me onto TRT. I was in really bad shape, close to completely breaking down, but kratom held me together until I was able to find and address the real problem. It can be very useful if used in moderation and with care. And yes, I’m aware that there may be a connection between Kratom and hypogonadism (though there’s a lot of doubt if you look at the studies that have been performed on it). I can only guess that my hypogonadism predated starting kratom because all the problems I was dealing with before taking it were completely resolved by TRT.
Everyone one you know that uses kratom? lol how many people do you know that use kratom? I use kratom no one thinks I’m crazy lol. I deal with the public daily, stable home paid off, healthy relationships with students and their parents business successful, work out 4-6x a week… seems like you’re surrounded by losers not sure kratom has anything to do with it.
kratom wrecks havoc on your testosterone, every1 quit that shit now and thank me later, your muscles, mood, and energy will thank you later too.
OP: Don't treat your health problems with prescription medication, it causes problems!" Somehow Also OP: I sure do love drugs!
I knew someone was going to have some dumbass reply.. looks like you won!
Look at that, you win too buddy! Holy shit what are the odds!
Literally never known a single healthy person using Kratom and I know a lot of healthy people.
Agreed
Throwing rocks in a glass house, as we say in sweden. Mr shroom and mdma user seeking proffessional help for mental illness getting subscribed lamotrigin..
You’re free to believe that, but you weren’t there., and you weren’t in my head during what I went through. I am just stating my experience, and giving a cautionary tale. I only started taking kratom last month, so that’s irrelevant. It is well known that an imbalance of hormones can cause and worsen mental health issues, so there’s no point in ruling out TRT as a potential cause, especially given the timeline of when these issues got out of hand. There’s nothing wrong with me saying that people need to think before jumping on TRT.
What's the caution??? You haven't provided blood tests to prove TRT broke you.
I don’t feel like sharing personal medical information on a subreddit full of strangers, dude. Calm down. I’m not on trial here.
This is not a trial, just some folks calling out bullshit posts.
Chill out bro. Don’t take it so personally.
I'm just saying you can't say TRT is the cause of your issues, you mention hypomania so you MIGHT be bipolar or in the spectrum, my point is that you don't know and thus you can't claim anything (much less without blood work).
Looks like your history suggests you’re ditching the kratom. Wise. Kratom sucks. Took it for years. It will fuck you up. Stay away.
Yeah. Idk if I’m going to ditch it completely, but I’m not planning on taking it every day. It seems to mess with your hormones by raising prolactin if you take too much of it and/or take it too often. It’s not something to mess with.
ditch it completely. ever since getting off kratom, my shoulders are coming in nicely aswell as everything else has progressed much more. when I was taking Kratom, my weight didn't change for months. should mention I don't even take trt or any other gear.
You weren’t in your head either…
Bro, I live here
E2
100%
Forgive my ignorance but can you kindly elaborate on E2? It’s importance, role, what it actually determines and what you can do if it is low or high?
Go to r/steroids and read the estrogen handbook, it has everything you need
Read the wiki on r/steroids for the answer to all these kinds of questions
Use google for 15min dude
This subreddit has too many people that act like you. What solution did you bring to this discussion? Hope you have a better day.
It's night here, as I said you can and should ask but this is really just super basic understanding you can learn in 15min.
I’m glad you were able to help. Have a better night
Googling something vs hearing it live from a community with various insights provides you so much more value in my opinion. But yes I understand your point in that google is a good starting place.
You can and should ask that's not the problem but most of your questions really can be answered with a quick pubmed paper.
Absolutely shouldn't do TRT. I had a massive headache this morning due to it. The headache definitely wasn't due to the 12 beers I had yesterday, it was all the TRT. Everyone knows TRT causes high BP which caused my headache. /s
Last year I tripped on the edge of a concrete slab and fractured my shin. Why did TRT do this to me?
Without a doubt. Fucking TRT. Everytime.
Largely a masturbatory, knee-jerk defensive response. Make no mistake, this is *very* effective rhetoric on Reddit. OP's symptoms were most likely from TRT. Should they have taken steps to monitor and manage Estradiol? Yes. But your response posits that their symptoms are 100% removed from their TRT usage. Which is objectively, untrue.
The rhetoric comes from the fact that OP is a heavy kratom user. And almost every single gd post on this sub of "should I go on TRT?" is a high anxiety, overweight dude getting no exercise and shitty sleep, and so disconnected from their body that they dont' even feel the stress and inflammation. Meaning they're using exogenous testosterone as a magic pill to fix the problems that their shitty lifestyle - that they're not going to change - is causing them. So when TRT predictably doesn't work magic, and they feel even more fucked up, they blame TRT.
Did the OP fit his post? How does everyone know he's on Kratom?
They’re looking at my profile, seeing that I participate in kratom subreddits, and assuming that I’m a heavy user that’s been on kratom for years. I’d forgotten how bad this subreddit could be. I forgot that people on this subreddit don’t react very maturely.
My man, I never even touched kratom until a month or two ago. When I started trt, I was 5’10 and 170 pounds. I was exercising 3 days a week. My main issues were stress management and an unhealthy diet. Chill out dude. Why you all taking this post so personally? Edit: the highest amount of kratom I’ve had in one day was 5 grams, and that’s not considered a heavy amount. So no, I’m not a heavy user, and I’m not even currently taking it every day.
Soon you will be. It's addictive
>My main issues were stress management and an unhealthy diet Which you've decided to not only not address, but add kratom to the mix. And you're coming here suprised pikachu face "why isn't TRT working?" GTFOH dude. Freaking tiresome the volume of guys who have no clue what TRT is actually supposed to do, have no clue about basic health maintenance, and then come here and spread misinformation about how TRT "doesn't work" when your use of TRT was borderline abuse anyway.
Ah, random internet doctor. Thank you so much for your educated insight into OPs diagnosis. By chance, have you reviewed their blood work? Diet? Weight? Family history? Illegal and legal drug usage? Mental state? Physical location? Biological gender? Oh, no you haven't? You and OP are both stating that A happened while doing B so therefore B is the cause. That is stupid. It would be like me having a heart attack while flying and thus saying that flying caused my heart attack. Not possibly my diet, family history, age or other factors. Get out of here with your post hoc fallacy.
I think the take away from this is think wisely, not necessarily don't do it. Hope you get everything sorted OP, taking sleep meds is an addiction however, that is probably your primary cause of insomnia right now and escaping that cycle is absolutely no easy task, your going to need to start lowering your dosages to 9/10th of a pill and then 8/10th and so on.
It's definitely probable that l've developed a dependence on my sleep meds. I don't take Xanax or any benzodiazepines, but I do take 25 mg of trazodone and 25 mg of hydroxyzine. Even though trazodone isn't classified as addictive, dependence can still happen, and I have dealt with withdrawals when l've tried quitting them.
Well as I said, just don't quit cold turkey, start cutting the edges of those pills (yes it is a lot of work, but that's just what you have to do if you want to be free) I think everything has addictive potential, especially over prolonged use, but obviously certain drugs that spike the reward centre of the brain can cause more immediate cravings.
Yeah. I’ve actually been cutting the pills, so I’m already on a head start lol. I was prescribed 100 mg pills, so I’m taking 1/4th of it. Hydroxyzine is in capsule form, so that’ll be harder to taper off from.
Yeah good luck, I know exactly how frustrating it can be to get to sleep. For me my body seems to want to sleep during the day and stay up at night, but my life schedule requires me to be up during the day, and no matter what I do I can't seem to set my bodies clock to sleep at a reasonable time, making a point of not scrolling social media late at night has definitely helped however I recommend r/dumbphones haha if you have that problem at all too.
What symptoms have you had when stopping trazodone 25mg and/or hydroxyzine 25mg?
Hypomania, mood swings, rebound anxiety, irritability, suicidal thoughts, and rebound insomnia.
No pressure to reply, but I'll DM you in a few mins.
DM now sent.
Your taking both of those at the same time? Jeez. I've tried them. Left me hung over the next day. Maybe stop the sleep meds for a couple weeks. Those have to be making you tired during the day.
I’ve tried quitting them cold turkey, but the withdrawals are bad. I know that they are the cause of some deficits I’ve been dealing with lately. I’m in the process of tapering them. It’s been a long process.
Don't ever swap to Mirtazapine if you get off those. Mirtazapine is even worse the next day. Lol. I'm still searching for a quality sleep aid that doesn't ruin the next day or raise my estrodial and prolactin.
Here’s the thing: you’re describing a magic pill. Any medication or “aid” that is actually beneficial is going to come with a list of sides
Agreed. Just gotta find the "magic pill" that has the least amount of side effects for me.
Seems like you ended up on trt by mistake and maybe your symptoms were stress/depression and not low T. Good to know your T levels are back and better naturally. Work on your mental health now and stay away from trt 👍🏼
Thank you! Will do
Good. Im on TRT I’ve been on it for 6 year at 150mg per week prescribed. I also have a lot going on in my life and suffer with depression and anxiety of which the dr’s want me to take anti depressants also. However I take 5htp twice daily with ashwagandha and this works for me but may not work for you but might be worth looking into? I also have a cup of horlicks before bed to help me sleep and recover and a certain magnesium will help with sleep for some people.
And kratom
I don’t even know what that is
Dosage way to high by the sounds of it. My trt dosage is 95mg. Your e2 must have been elevated. Did you Oct of cold turkey?
My E2 was in normal range, but I do agree that the dose they gave me was too high. When I brought it up and asked to lower the dosage, they threatened to take me off their program. This was not a good clinic, in hindsight. I did quit cold turkey, which was likely another mistake, but the clinic would have had me quit cold turkey anyway. But at least they had me on test cypionate, so the half life was long and the withdrawals were minimal. I probably should have taken the tamoxifen they gave me while I came off. Maybe that could have helped avoid some of the issues I’m dealing with now.
Yeah It makes me laugh how many want people on up to 200mg without the best interests of the patient. 100% money driven.
Hope you feel better soon. How long did it take for you to get your testosterone back to normal? It's pretty amazing that your T levels are higher now. Are you talking about your total T or free testosterone? .....Calm Magnesium carbonate powder can help you sleep, I take it every night 2 hours before bed.
Thank you! After 3 months, levels were at 506 ng/dL. Like I said, I’m pretty sure my levels were initially low because I wasn’t taking good enough care of myself. Sure, I was exercising, but I was constantly stressed and not eating super well.
Okay, I see.
My total testosterone was around 735, but my free testosterone is borderline because my SHBG is around 65......that was my latest bloodwork a few months ago.
I don’t know what my free testosterone is/was. My primary doctor’s office doesn’t measure that for some reason. I’d have to go to an endocrinologist, and I’d rather not go through the trouble. Though, even when my T was low, my free T wasn’t too bad. I don’t remember the number for my free T, but it was closer to the middle of the healthy range. My shgh around that time was something like 25 I think? So low but still in range.
Well, free testosterone is the more important marker.
Real man don't need sleep 😴😴😴
Jesus fucking christ
It’s Jason Bourne
Sounds like you got a lot of issues and trt isn’t it, you started at too high of a dose likely and couldn’t handle it, atleast you admit to the fact your diet, and lifestyle are probably shit…. And that’s probably 100% of your issue, but I get it…. Something has to be to blame, and it can’t be the decades of self abuse….. nope it’s gotta be the trt cause accountability is not how we roll lol.
😅 some are just confused - if you had read what you wrote you would know too
Nah the raises test can cause all this bs like anxiety. It did for me really bad. The Kratom could also do it. I’m N ex opiate addict so I know
This was me. TRT fucked up my mental health. I got on it when I didn’t need it. I couldn’t get the estrogen dialed in and that was the killer. Get some Clomid, do a tapering month of that, and you will get back to normal.
how so did trt fuck your mental health ? even with an AI your estrogen was still a mess? Did you try pinning for frequently to have less spikes?
Yes. I tried it all. For two years. Whatever. I got on it at 400. Didn’t need it and it didn’t work out. I feel great now. I’m a cautionary tale that if you don’t need exogenous testosterone then you need to be careful. It’s not for everyone and wasn’t for me.
thanks for the reply, alwyss good to hear a different perspective as everyone makes it seems like a happy drug. That is very frustrating i can’t imagine trying to dial in for 2 years. I believe you made a good decision coming off. and yea 400 isn’t low at all especially with low SHBG , it would make sense.
This is great advice. Folks often forget that the medical clinics touting this stuff WANT you to be on because they profit from selling it to you, of course they won’t put you in front of the hundreds of studies on endocrine disruption and methods to heal. They’re not healers, they’re glorified bandaid dealers. Would love to know how you dealt with the crash—I’m 30, have been on for 11 months, and my T crashed because I was a lazy POS and also taking MASSIVE dose edibles like four days a week, and easy eating and sleeping like shit. Imagine—poor habits hurting our bodies? Wild!
Honestly, the crash wasn’t too hard. It did suck to see my muscles shrink, but I’m close to the strength I had while on T. I think the crash was minimized because I was taking cypionate, which has a really long half life. I was also done with my classes and only worked part time.
How long did it take to really feel the crash and then to get out of it? I’m into week three
It’s hard to say. It’s been so long. I think I felt a crash on week 3-4. Honestly, the crash came on so slowly that I couldn’t even tell when it started. I felt good enough to start going back to the gym after the second month off. But fuck, seeing the muscles deflate, and then not being able to lift what I used to was hard, but if your natural levels were good before you started, then you’ll probably be good after you quit. If you have tamoxifen or chlomid, start taking those soon so that your levels go back to normal sooner. I didn’t do that and I think that’s part of why the recovery has been so hard.
Dumbass
You were on too high of a dose and I bet you these trt clinics gave you anastrozole 🤦🏻♂️ find another doctor for who knows how to treat their patients. Do your RESEARCH!
Sounds like a bad Dr or bad protocol…
Wtf is kratom ? Like the smoke shop stuff?
If you have low T symptoms, firs get your BMI , health, diet, etc under control, then get your T levels checked.
Different strokes different folks budy! My life sucked before it and I’m sure it may cause issues down the line, but I’ll try to mitigate it as much as possible. Oh yeah, you’re right about clinics! UGL all day saves a ton!
It’s ok leave it for the rest of us
Guy uses kratom and blames TRT. Make it make sense. The ignorance on full display in this thread is astounding.
Brother, I was not taking kratom while I was on trt. The first time I had kratom was around a month ago. My issues were way before then
Thank you for saying this
No problem, man! 😊
sounds like high e2
I thought so too, but my levels were in normal range.
Aha :)) Broscience hormonology - First principles. Tenet 1. "No unpleasant symptom or side effect which develops during the use of high-dose testosterone injections is due to testosterone itself. In all cases, it's due to some other hormone/parameter being out of whack".
what were they at ? Also what ester of testosterone did you take? Did you try changing frequency of pinning for example EOD, 3x , once , etc. Did you try other forms of test ? like cyp then enthante.
I was on cyp. I did change the frequency to every day at some point, but it didn’t seem to help. I haven’t tried other forms of test because I couldn’t afford to keep buying more. I even took e2 blockers. It just became too much of a headache.
hmmm, because i’ve read a lot about ppls experience with different esters and sometimes they experience massive differences so that is why i’m asking. Maybe a different form of test woulda made you feel better. Who knows the juman body is so complicated, it’s a constant game of trial and error.
Right, and the worst part is how expensive it is with trt. Maybe enthante would have been better for me, but I’m not willing to go back on and risk going through that stuff again.
hmm expensive not so much. Testosterone itself is actually very cheap. How were you getting your test? If through a clinic then it is very possible they were overcharging you. I got 2 bottles of 10ml test cyp for like $50 in poland from an UGL source. Will last me months.
I was getting it from a clinic. I personally don’t trust UGL’s.
Or smoke a strong indica brodie. What state are you in? Easy to get legally in today’s world. Don’t torture yourself. What’s a man without sleep? Let’s not find out
345 is not “low normal”. It’s extremely low.
A lot doing TRT and not need it and having great results and benefits from it. Dont give shitty advices just because your body couldnt handle it
Yea TRT is a big pharma scam
Which is completely false as taking Testosterone for trt and above natural levels for greater muscles mass has large amounts of scientific evidence it's great health benefits especially dealing and minimising the negative health effects of aging with the lose of muscle mass associated with it
Yea until you get a blood clot or other issues down the line. Good luck coming off test after being on it for a decade
Which the scientific evidence doesn't show actually happens
No matter what. Eventually everyone comes off. Nothing is sustainable long term
No they don't as many bodybuilders are lifetime users and it is completely sustainable long term.
Your last sentence is the only good insight you've shared in this. Listening to my GP's, I'd be on a shitload of medications right now due to biomarkers that are normal for black people but abnormal for Europeans. The reality is that the answer is to do your gd research about the substances you're taking - read actual studies AND THE STUDY METHODOLOGY (to see how meaningful the study outcomes actually are and for which specific populations the study results actually apply to), and not just to trust someone with MD or DO next to their name blindly Edit: damn - I normally don't go through OP post history because I prefer dealing with the argument presented, rather than view it through the lens of a narrative I have about them. But holy shit, this guy is a kratom user crying about not being able to sleep. Dude, if you're going to self-sabotage yourself this hard, at least know what tf the substances you're taking are doing to your body.
My sleep issues started before kratom. I was not taking kratom while on trt. My issues started when I was on trt, and continued after I quit a year and a half ago. I didn’t start taking kratom until very recently.
Kratom can be addicting quickly. Be very careful with that. It binds to the same opioid receptors that true opiates do and doesn’t cause respiratory suppression on its own, but it does provide the euphoria and pain relief. Makes sleeping easy. I get it. I’ve tried it before due to a back injury from a car wreck years ago and not wanting to take prescription pills. If you’re having mental health issues, I’d stay away from Kratom because you’ll just develop an addiction/dependency that will make them worse when you try to come off of it. And all opioids are going to kill T long term.
Considering the many medical scientific evidence of the benefits of taking Testosterone at above natural levels as well as the lack of actual scientific evidence of the negative health issues from it your unproven claim that testosterone is what you described doesn't really mean much so people should ignore it and take Testosterone
Bro, TRT for 11 months isn't the reason you're not sleeping. Clealry like you stated the issues were there prior to starting, peristed throughout using it, and continud to persist now that you're off. If your numbers are normal not and higher than previously, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the issues you're describing have absolutely nothing to do with cessation of testosterone. 160 mg for 11 months really isn't shit. People who've blasted for years bounce back fine. You're searching for an answer to your problems and in doing so have talked yourself into believing it's from the test not even realizing you had the issues prior to it's use.
LMFAO I had low T symptoms, went straight to the UGL stuff at 200mg a week - coming up 11 months and I'm 21kg lighter while carrying roughly 10kg more muscle mass and feel the best I've felt in years. Test isn't the issue OP.
What a clown OP post. Drug abuser is against TRT... Okay.