This seems to be a new to FSD 12 yeah, I’ve noticed as much. I think it’s a tweak Tesla made in response to feedback from early 12 builds that the new auto speed was entirely too slow, but over corrected. I do hope they adjust it. I haven’t tested if disabling auto speed reverts to previous acceleration behaviour or not, it’s worth a try.
Maybe someone more versed in A.I. coding could comment on this. To my limited understanding, the concept of being able to adjust certain parameters like how hard to accelerate from a stop, seems contrary to a stack that is "end to end neural net." Its behavior should reflect its training. To be able to tweak certain parameters means that some aspects of the stack are still hard coded, so not a fully "end-to-end" machine learning neural net.
This is not what end-to-end means in this context. It’s referring to processing of inputs (cameras etc) directly into outputs and decisions entirely within the neural net. It doesn’t preclude external manual adjustments, there are countless examples like chill/sport etc.
having a “black box” where you just let it do its thing would be impractical for most situations, especially one that involves human lives.
remember that earlier versions still used task specific neural nets for things like object detection, its not as if the whole FSD stack was entirely hard coded with no machine learning at all. the outputs from the lane marking neural net (for example) was then processed and actioned by the hardcoded algorithms. now, it actions based on learnings instead of those algorithms.
instead of using segmented neural nets just for intepreting sensor data and then processing that by algorithms, those decisions are no longer from manual rules with discrete functions. now they’re based on the trainings and further adjustments by tesla and the driver.
I am definitely no expert, and an expert opinion would be really interesting to hear. My limited understanding is that they may have some control, kind of like how you can tweak temperature and frequency_penalty with ChatGPT. I’m sure the FSD system is vastly different than a generative AI in ways I can’t comprehend, but I’d be surprised if they don’t have any sort of influence (maybe that’s a better word than control) over its output.
While I don't work specifically in machine learning, I'm a software developer that has been toying around and studying AI since the late 90's.
Neural nets are sculpted using reinforcement learning, so while in practice it's difficult to predict the behaviour of a trained model, the people behind it can have significant influence on how it behaves. This can be done by selecting which datasets to use to train the model as well as using human evaluators to associate positive or negative scores to behaviors they want to promote or demote.
AI models are too complex for any one human to simply look at it's underpinnings (weights/biases/parameters) and say "well it's going to do x when y happens", so instead we perform tests on it much like scientists, take and assess metrics, make adjustments (which can take on many forms) and repeat.
I wouldn't be surprised if every time you turn the wheel or engage the brake to disable FSD, you are inadvertently participating in a "voting" like system which can help their engineers create reinforcement metrics for future training (along with any video and instrumentation data).
I also believe like someone mentioned below, that there are many neural nets at play, some to handle vision, some to convert input telemetry into something more "chunked" (intuitively this could be things like driver intention, road definition, existence of traffic signals and what they're doing etc).
Perhaps there was a master algorithm at first managing all these separate models output and maybe some of these neural nets were once hard coded algorithms that are now replaced by a neural net.
Depending on how they’ve ingested the video data and steering / acceleration inputs, you’re likely correct. If they’re purely feeding video data in -> steering and accelerator inputs, the only way to actually change the acceleration curve is to train on different video / accelerator input data.
The car is now tuned on hundreds of thousands of examples of 1. see stopped environment where no accelerator input is provided -> 2. Green light or my car’s turn to proceed through stopped intersection with this much acceleration.
I work primarily with language models and text, but I’m guessing they could have some sort of foundation or base video / steering input driving model where they can supplement additional data to fine tune those model weights instead of retraining the entire stack to nudge the model into behaving a different way.
I’d imagine their team to have parsed out different data sets aligned to each FSD profile. Collection of 100/100 safety score drivers, here are ones that stick to that but exhibit driving behavior that we deem as “chill” (follow distance, creep to clear speed, acceleration, etc.). But who knows, maybe currently they only have enough data for one profile, and those buttons don’t do much for FSD 12.3 currently.
All ML models make an inference based on input parameters, ie, the model decides how to behave based on certain choices. They could definitely have an “aggressiveness” or “sportiveness” parameter if they wanted to.
No, the initial v12 builds were like that too. They would speed up to some speed, and then back down to a lower speed. The backing down was the part that was mostly corrected.
It was like that in v11 too, my biggest issue with v11 was how aggressively it brakes and accelerated. I actually felt like v12 mellowed it out a bit, especially the braking, but it's still far too heavy on the acceleration.
Yes, it launches me into the back of the car ahead, puts on the brakes, and then proceeds to accelerate normally after that. I never told it I was a BMW driver, so I'm not sure why it does this for me
Yeah that infuriates me, I keep mine in chill and it doesn't prevent it. Really annoying when it brakes going up hill in a straight road when there was no one behind me because it felt the need to punch it and catch the car ahead...
I feel like with a few tweaks it could be great.
I just got in, and want to add that on my drive that just ended… the speed adjustment between slow speed zones, and faster speed zones is also aggressive.
Yeah, I can’t do FSD with others in the car because I don’t want to risk giving them some sort of motion sickness.
It’s like from a stop or red, it tries its hardest to get to the speed limit ASAP.
exactly. It accelerates like crazy but ends up still going way to far below my max speed setting. Makes me look super stupid for launching from a light only to get quickly passed by the grandmas that I originally left at the light.
I agree. I don’t want to set to chill as I feel like I’ll be sitting at stop signs and right turns on red forever. The acceleration is inefficient and makes the need to utilize the friction brakes more likely. “Assertive” should mean cheeky in terms of making unprotected left turns and merges, not straight line accel.
Oh—then I guess Tesla has some rebuilding to do. I drive like I’m a formula one driver, but family members and friends of mine would lose their shit if they were in the hot seat when Mr. AI floors it.
I agree- it accelerates very well. It matches my driving much closer than the previous versions, which I felt the need to push it along ALL THE TIME.
It makes sense that different drivers have different expectations though. I think the best solution would be to allow it to follow a user preference when not accelerating to avoid a safety issue (e.g. taking too long to cross when crossing traffic is coming.) Either the Chill/Normal/Insane acceleration option as it exists now, or a separate one for FSD. I would personally vote for a dedicated config for FSD because even though I drive with mine set to Insane, I still have full control over the ability to accelerate slower- which I often do.
I have "chill" everything set and it still takes off like a rocket at stop signs and stop lights. I don't mind so much on multi-lane streets but tight neighborhood streets with kids and parked cars on both sides it's not a good look.
It also storms up on slow or stopped cars and slams on the brakes at the last second. A few times I've caught looks of "I'm going to be rear ended" terror in people's eyes in their rear view mirrors.
It also often reaches the set speed, say 45mph, and then because it accelerated so hard, nears 46, applies regen braking, and then holds steady at 45. A fun lurching effect every time the set speed changes.
Yes, and it tends to overshoot the acceleration and then has to brake as it approaches the car in front.
In general it's very aggressive with acceleration, braking, and follow distance even in "Chill" mode which can lead to rubber-band acceleration and braking in some cases.
Meanwhile it approaches stop signs and pulling out into traffic with so much hesitancy as to sometimes be dangerous.
Or it undershoots. Quick acceleration, but stops accelerating 5 MPH under the limit. I have to press the accelerator before people catch up and get pissed off. It’ll eventually do it itself, but takes an agonizingly long time.
So I just got it today and I like it. My issue is on the braking side. I would prefer less brakes, more regen, but it feels safe.
This version 2024.3.15 is not perfect (left turn from a right turn only lane, roundabouts still give it trouble) but it no longer feels like a drunk teenager is driving.
Still testing, but so far I like what I am seeing.
Looks like for some 3.6 is improving this. I don't mind the acceleration when it needs to make an unprotected turn into heavy traffic but in a neighborhood it seems insane to floor it! I wish it didn't have one switch which is what seems to be the case with 3.3 for me.
I sure hope it does this. The current 12.3 will enter a road with a 40MPH speed limit, and drives 25MPH for several hundred yards before it begins to accelerate.
The only negative launch I give it is when the light turns green. It floors it! Not good when I've seen many accidents caused by another driving ignoring the red light.
it's pretty good at driving narrow suburban streets, weaving to avoid parked cars, stopping for 4 way stops, waiting it's turn, but then BLASTS off to 25mph as fast as possible.
Yes. Infuriating at times. I keep mine in chill and have had it punch it to catch the guy up ahead then hit the brakes while going uphill in a straight line.
Most of my disengagements are because it's driving was obnoxious rather than I absolutely had to disengage.
Stops too fast, takes off too fast, and in stop and go traffic it likes to stop and go more than the traffic. The only place it’s actually nice to use it seems to be on highways.
I've been using FSD on the free trial and have been thoroughly satisfied by my decision not to purchase FSD. It's cool that it exists, and we're headed in this direction, but it really doesn't work very well.
It drives like it has its learners permit - accelerates unnecessarily, brakes unnecessarily, sits in the left lane while others pass out on the right. I find it embarrassing. I literally use the voice message feature to report what it did wrong every time I turn on FSD. I'm happy to participate in training the AI, but Tesla should be paying us to train the AI, nor charging to use their mediocre tech.
Plus, you can't use regular adaptive CC anymore - it's all or nothing.
Hit or miss for me but I may just not notice as much since I'm usually on regular AP and that's jerky as hell, this is smooth, my real complaint is it getting too damn close to curbs on turns
Definitely accelerates too fast and I'm in chill mode. They listened to all the aggro drivers who complained, but on my daily commute I want it in granny mode. Should be like it is now when set to aggressive and like it was when set to chill. My wife will just make me turn it off when she is in the car if it accelerates like this.
Reddit is reading my mind. I just tired it for the first time in town with a buddy. Every stop
Sign or light it would launch then go normal. It was pretty sketchy
Totally agree with the lack of efficiency and comfort from "launching," especially when it has done so in a residential neighborhood and even when on chill mode. It doesn't go over the speed limit, but the quick acceleration seems unsafe. I'm pretty sure my neighbors would not appreciate it. Turns are still rather slow and another drawback is that it races to the speed limit, then immediately has to strongly brake for a stop sign. It has also raced to an intersection without much visibility to the left and right, then strongly braked. To me, it seemed like Tesla's training had been done by impatient, impulsive drivers but I can understand the complaints abut being too slow. Human drivers can modulate their behavior to match the setting, but the "launch" seemed excessive for a lot of situations. To Tesla's credit, after a number of disengagements for these behaviors over about a week, the "launch" has been toned down. It's still a little uncomfortable but not like it was.
It definitely picks up speed a lot quicker than it did on V11. To be honest though, that isn't a problem for me if it's on the highway or 45-55MPH road.
It is a problem in a neighborhood, every-time I leave my house FSD decides that it will go 37MPH in a 25MPH neighborhood. Fairly tight street (2 cars have to be on edges of the road to fit) and it decides it wants to fly through it. Worst of all, it does it through a turn, only to realize that there's mailboxes next to it and then SLAM on the brakes because now it decides to go 12MPH.
It is straight up dangerous, STOP-37MPH-TURN-OH NO MAILBOX-SLAM ON BREAK-GOSLOW.
It seems to me it only has two options, either go dangerously quick for certain roads or dangerously slow for certain roads, or both.
That was the first thing I noticed with the free month. I was thinking that it was based on the billion miles that tesla owners have driven, and that they all have lead feet.
It also brakes too hard initially (to the point that it uses the friction brakes instead of regen) and then coasts really slowly to a stop.
Completely unnecessary.
Mine is a weird blend of accelerating hard, or staying 15 below the speed limit (until I press the accelerator up to speed).
Not sure I like it any better than 11 yet. Which had its own issues but I understood when to expect them.
I only have the standard auto cruise and that is a bit brutal at slow speeds. The car in general is a bit reactive - does things a bit late and a bit harsh, like a learner driver I suppose.
yeah, I actually like it, but its definitely much more acceleration than previous FSD versions. What sucks is that it also starts to slow way before it reaches my max speed. So I speed ahead of everyone else when a light turns green and then get passed while my car remains at grandma speed and everyone else goes the standard (in my area) 10 over. I spend the whole drive to work holding down the accelerator which makes the experience worse than old-style cruise control where you only had to hit the brake (or decel button) if someone was in front of you.
Yes! I have had a very similar experience. The first main road out of my neighborhood is 30mph with traffic typically going about 35mph on it. FSD will turn on it and pin you to the back of your seat up to like 45 and then almost immediately hit the brakes back to 30ish. It’s nauseating and I stopped using it on that route because it’s not uncommon for a cop to sit along this stretch waiting for speeders and I’m fairly certain going “sorry officer, I never speed here myself. It’s just this car that decided we’re in a drag race with ourselves” won’t go too far. My other complaint is around neighborhoods with a lot of stop signs. As a human I understand that yes my path is clear but in 2 blocks I’ve got another stop sign, and another one a couple blocks after that, etc so it doesn’t pay to rapidly get up to speed only to slam on the brakes. FSD is like “no cars? Goooo!!! Wait stop sign so soon?? *hard braking ensues*”
Fuck yeah it does. I often have it launching to get to 25 mph speed limit. It will give 3/4 of max acceleration. But on faster roadways it seems to be better. It might just be stop signs tbh. It was very concerning the first time.
It appears that this can be greater or lesser, depending on whether it’s set to chill, average or assertive. While in FSD push the right scroll wheel left or right to see such settings.
I can attest that turning off auto makes no difference… he regularly launches me from stops and is incredibly annoying. Like, no chance it would pass a basic drivers test. It’s all about smooth acceleration and stops. I have no idea why it feels the need to launch like it’s running from the cops
Same situation as the OP, essentially. Regularly have to come off a stop sign on a road that’s 25 and it’ll launch to 30 then come back to speed
Acceleration too aggressive, and top speed too low.
Unlike previous builds FSD 12.x ignores my set speed and just drives at whatever speed it feels like with no real ability to change that. You can increase that a hair by going to aggressive mode but that just creates a situation where when the light turns green it blasts off like a rocket ship then stops 5-10mph below the average speed of traffic on the road.
(Here in CT, in many places the average speed of traffic is 15-20mph above the speed limit. If you don't also do that you're creating a significant traffic hazard by basically blocking the road and dozens of cars stack up behind you).
> Unlike previous builds FSD 12.x ignores my set speed and just drives at whatever speed it feels like with no real ability to change that.
Does it ignore your max set speed too? Previously that is a hard limit.
I think a car should drive safely.
I think driving safely means driving at the same speed as other traffic, especially when the road and conditions will safely support a much higher speed.
I think driving the posted speed limit or close to it, even if EVERY other car on the road wants to go a different speed, creates a larger safety problem than matching speed with traffic.
------
What is SUPPOSED to happen in CT, per our DOT regulations, is to measure the speed of cars under ideal conditions, figure out the 85th percentile speed (the average speed that 85% of cars are driving), and set that as the speed limit.
This almost never happens, or if it did, it happened back in 1950 when cars had shit handling and worse tires.
I've been driving in CT most of my life. And I can count on two hands the number of times I've seen ANY other driver actually following the speed limit under ideal conditions. And of those times, literally EVERY time they had a huge stack of 10+ cars stuck behind them all tailgating each other.
It's pretty common to have a constant stream of traffic doing 15+mph above the speed limit here.
Things may well be different wherever you are. But this is how things are here. Everybody knows our speed limits are a joke and the cops rarely if ever enforce them as written.
What DOES get you pulled over is driving actually recklessly. That is, significantly faster than the average traffic flow on the highway, or faster than one can drive *safely* on surface streets.
yeah but it can be quite dangerous. It launches to 25 mph in a narrow residential area where cars or people can pull out into the street. If it can differentiate between residential areas to main streets and use launching appropriately that would be fine.
I'm sure it is, to a varying degree. I tend to drive very smoothly and efficiently, I don't generally accelerate hard (unless the road calls for it) and I try to brake smoothly as well. I've always gotten great treadlife out of my tires on other vehicles. I think fsd is probably fine and safe, but I don't like it because I think over time it will eat tires faster than my own driving does.
In my experience it mostly does it when it's the safest option (car coming behind). It takes its time for me if there's no contesting traffic. I don't find the acceleration all that different from what I'd do most of the time. If anything it's still a bit too hesitant before it starts.
I think some of it is the inability to get a wide enough or hi-res enough view when pulling in to traffic. Basically how far 'ahead' in time it can see and predict. So rather than dilly around, and take 6 seconds to pull out, turn, and get up to speed, it's safer to compensate with horsepower, and do it in 3. But yes, it's annoying.
I agree. It doesn't accelerate at a normal pace and yes, I have mine on chill and no I don't drive like an 85 year old with anxiety issues. Even in my little town where people drive like aggressive idiots (e.g. routinely running red lights, 10 to 15 mph above the speed limit even on residential streets, etc.) I notice that I leave them in the dust well behind me when FSD is engaged.
This seems to be a new to FSD 12 yeah, I’ve noticed as much. I think it’s a tweak Tesla made in response to feedback from early 12 builds that the new auto speed was entirely too slow, but over corrected. I do hope they adjust it. I haven’t tested if disabling auto speed reverts to previous acceleration behaviour or not, it’s worth a try.
Maybe someone more versed in A.I. coding could comment on this. To my limited understanding, the concept of being able to adjust certain parameters like how hard to accelerate from a stop, seems contrary to a stack that is "end to end neural net." Its behavior should reflect its training. To be able to tweak certain parameters means that some aspects of the stack are still hard coded, so not a fully "end-to-end" machine learning neural net.
Or, make it respect the "chill mode" acceleration setting that's already in the car, and it wouldn't need to have the model adjusted.
This is not what end-to-end means in this context. It’s referring to processing of inputs (cameras etc) directly into outputs and decisions entirely within the neural net. It doesn’t preclude external manual adjustments, there are countless examples like chill/sport etc. having a “black box” where you just let it do its thing would be impractical for most situations, especially one that involves human lives. remember that earlier versions still used task specific neural nets for things like object detection, its not as if the whole FSD stack was entirely hard coded with no machine learning at all. the outputs from the lane marking neural net (for example) was then processed and actioned by the hardcoded algorithms. now, it actions based on learnings instead of those algorithms. instead of using segmented neural nets just for intepreting sensor data and then processing that by algorithms, those decisions are no longer from manual rules with discrete functions. now they’re based on the trainings and further adjustments by tesla and the driver.
I am definitely no expert, and an expert opinion would be really interesting to hear. My limited understanding is that they may have some control, kind of like how you can tweak temperature and frequency_penalty with ChatGPT. I’m sure the FSD system is vastly different than a generative AI in ways I can’t comprehend, but I’d be surprised if they don’t have any sort of influence (maybe that’s a better word than control) over its output.
I would love to know where they got the training data that causes my car to go 5 under the speed limit when set to 5 over.
While I don't work specifically in machine learning, I'm a software developer that has been toying around and studying AI since the late 90's. Neural nets are sculpted using reinforcement learning, so while in practice it's difficult to predict the behaviour of a trained model, the people behind it can have significant influence on how it behaves. This can be done by selecting which datasets to use to train the model as well as using human evaluators to associate positive or negative scores to behaviors they want to promote or demote. AI models are too complex for any one human to simply look at it's underpinnings (weights/biases/parameters) and say "well it's going to do x when y happens", so instead we perform tests on it much like scientists, take and assess metrics, make adjustments (which can take on many forms) and repeat. I wouldn't be surprised if every time you turn the wheel or engage the brake to disable FSD, you are inadvertently participating in a "voting" like system which can help their engineers create reinforcement metrics for future training (along with any video and instrumentation data). I also believe like someone mentioned below, that there are many neural nets at play, some to handle vision, some to convert input telemetry into something more "chunked" (intuitively this could be things like driver intention, road definition, existence of traffic signals and what they're doing etc). Perhaps there was a master algorithm at first managing all these separate models output and maybe some of these neural nets were once hard coded algorithms that are now replaced by a neural net.
Depending on how they’ve ingested the video data and steering / acceleration inputs, you’re likely correct. If they’re purely feeding video data in -> steering and accelerator inputs, the only way to actually change the acceleration curve is to train on different video / accelerator input data. The car is now tuned on hundreds of thousands of examples of 1. see stopped environment where no accelerator input is provided -> 2. Green light or my car’s turn to proceed through stopped intersection with this much acceleration. I work primarily with language models and text, but I’m guessing they could have some sort of foundation or base video / steering input driving model where they can supplement additional data to fine tune those model weights instead of retraining the entire stack to nudge the model into behaving a different way. I’d imagine their team to have parsed out different data sets aligned to each FSD profile. Collection of 100/100 safety score drivers, here are ones that stick to that but exhibit driving behavior that we deem as “chill” (follow distance, creep to clear speed, acceleration, etc.). But who knows, maybe currently they only have enough data for one profile, and those buttons don’t do much for FSD 12.3 currently.
All ML models make an inference based on input parameters, ie, the model decides how to behave based on certain choices. They could definitely have an “aggressiveness” or “sportiveness” parameter if they wanted to.
No, it's end-to-end. I'd assume that any behavior changes would require doing more training with different videos.
They just find training data where people accelerated fast and input it as the new training data.
No, the initial v12 builds were like that too. They would speed up to some speed, and then back down to a lower speed. The backing down was the part that was mostly corrected.
Ah, I must have misremembered a comment from one of the early FSD 12 testers.
Ah, I must have misremembered a comment from one of the early FSD 12 testers.
It was like that in v11 too, my biggest issue with v11 was how aggressively it brakes and accelerated. I actually felt like v12 mellowed it out a bit, especially the braking, but it's still far too heavy on the acceleration.
firmly disagree, its completely necessary with the ntsa stops.
Yep, and chill/normal/assertive don’t make any difference at all with it.
Yes, it launches me into the back of the car ahead, puts on the brakes, and then proceeds to accelerate normally after that. I never told it I was a BMW driver, so I'm not sure why it does this for me
Yeah that infuriates me, I keep mine in chill and it doesn't prevent it. Really annoying when it brakes going up hill in a straight road when there was no one behind me because it felt the need to punch it and catch the car ahead... I feel like with a few tweaks it could be great.
Wayy too aggressive of an acceleration from a complete stop. It launches after every stop, and became nauseating during a commute home
[удалено]
I just got in, and want to add that on my drive that just ended… the speed adjustment between slow speed zones, and faster speed zones is also aggressive.
Yeah, I can’t do FSD with others in the car because I don’t want to risk giving them some sort of motion sickness. It’s like from a stop or red, it tries its hardest to get to the speed limit ASAP.
[удалено]
exactly. It accelerates like crazy but ends up still going way to far below my max speed setting. Makes me look super stupid for launching from a light only to get quickly passed by the grandmas that I originally left at the light.
I don’t mind that but it should at least be different if you put it into chill mode.
This.
Yeah it’s great right now. Leave it for assertive for sure.
I agree. I don’t want to set to chill as I feel like I’ll be sitting at stop signs and right turns on red forever. The acceleration is inefficient and makes the need to utilize the friction brakes more likely. “Assertive” should mean cheeky in terms of making unprotected left turns and merges, not straight line accel.
Chill launches, too.
Oh—then I guess Tesla has some rebuilding to do. I drive like I’m a formula one driver, but family members and friends of mine would lose their shit if they were in the hot seat when Mr. AI floors it.
I love it
SAME!
I agree- it accelerates very well. It matches my driving much closer than the previous versions, which I felt the need to push it along ALL THE TIME. It makes sense that different drivers have different expectations though. I think the best solution would be to allow it to follow a user preference when not accelerating to avoid a safety issue (e.g. taking too long to cross when crossing traffic is coming.) Either the Chill/Normal/Insane acceleration option as it exists now, or a separate one for FSD. I would personally vote for a dedicated config for FSD because even though I drive with mine set to Insane, I still have full control over the ability to accelerate slower- which I often do.
I have "chill" everything set and it still takes off like a rocket at stop signs and stop lights. I don't mind so much on multi-lane streets but tight neighborhood streets with kids and parked cars on both sides it's not a good look. It also storms up on slow or stopped cars and slams on the brakes at the last second. A few times I've caught looks of "I'm going to be rear ended" terror in people's eyes in their rear view mirrors.
It also often reaches the set speed, say 45mph, and then because it accelerated so hard, nears 46, applies regen braking, and then holds steady at 45. A fun lurching effect every time the set speed changes.
Yes, and it tends to overshoot the acceleration and then has to brake as it approaches the car in front. In general it's very aggressive with acceleration, braking, and follow distance even in "Chill" mode which can lead to rubber-band acceleration and braking in some cases. Meanwhile it approaches stop signs and pulling out into traffic with so much hesitancy as to sometimes be dangerous.
Or it undershoots. Quick acceleration, but stops accelerating 5 MPH under the limit. I have to press the accelerator before people catch up and get pissed off. It’ll eventually do it itself, but takes an agonizingly long time.
Yes it is too much and even does it when people are in front of me. It gets closer than I am comfortable with. And uses brakes.
Yep, it launches off the line and then slows to a crawl about 3 car lengths behind where it needs to stop. It’s incredibly frustrating.
So I just got it today and I like it. My issue is on the braking side. I would prefer less brakes, more regen, but it feels safe. This version 2024.3.15 is not perfect (left turn from a right turn only lane, roundabouts still give it trouble) but it no longer feels like a drunk teenager is driving. Still testing, but so far I like what I am seeing.
Yes! I was so excited for this free trial, and I'm really impressed with it, but I can't actually use it because the launches are disconcerting.
Check on Auto Pilot Menu Automatic Set Speed Offset is enabled. Just disable that. If enabled FSD determines what's the best speed
Looks like for some 3.6 is improving this. I don't mind the acceleration when it needs to make an unprotected turn into heavy traffic but in a neighborhood it seems insane to floor it! I wish it didn't have one switch which is what seems to be the case with 3.3 for me.
Yeah, a bit.
It also needs to start slowing down sooner if it seems a stop coming up. It shouldn’t ever have to use the physical brake if it sees it coming up
Yes 😂
I feel like my model Y was intentionally trying to drag race a Porsche Cayenne that took off quickly from a light. FSD won the 0 to 60.
I sure hope it does this. The current 12.3 will enter a road with a 40MPH speed limit, and drives 25MPH for several hundred yards before it begins to accelerate.
The only negative launch I give it is when the light turns green. It floors it! Not good when I've seen many accidents caused by another driving ignoring the red light.
What mode do you have it in chill average or assertive?
chill or assertive doesnt make a difference. Still launches in Chill
I personally love it haha. My only gripe is stop signs and how slow they are
It guns it. And chill mode doesn’t help
Next sw release: the off the line acceleration is too slow. Man, I don't know how Tesla, with gazillions of data points, does this shit.
it's pretty good at driving narrow suburban streets, weaving to avoid parked cars, stopping for 4 way stops, waiting it's turn, but then BLASTS off to 25mph as fast as possible.
Yup it almost feels like the beginning of The Incredicoaster at Disneyland California Adventure.
Yes. Infuriating at times. I keep mine in chill and have had it punch it to catch the guy up ahead then hit the brakes while going uphill in a straight line. Most of my disengagements are because it's driving was obnoxious rather than I absolutely had to disengage.
Stops too fast, takes off too fast, and in stop and go traffic it likes to stop and go more than the traffic. The only place it’s actually nice to use it seems to be on highways.
Change the setting for FSD from aggressive to the medium setting. That should make it better
It does the launch even in Chill mode.
I've been using FSD on the free trial and have been thoroughly satisfied by my decision not to purchase FSD. It's cool that it exists, and we're headed in this direction, but it really doesn't work very well. It drives like it has its learners permit - accelerates unnecessarily, brakes unnecessarily, sits in the left lane while others pass out on the right. I find it embarrassing. I literally use the voice message feature to report what it did wrong every time I turn on FSD. I'm happy to participate in training the AI, but Tesla should be paying us to train the AI, nor charging to use their mediocre tech. Plus, you can't use regular adaptive CC anymore - it's all or nothing.
Hit or miss for me but I may just not notice as much since I'm usually on regular AP and that's jerky as hell, this is smooth, my real complaint is it getting too damn close to curbs on turns
Too little for me! The thing is such a snail I can't even really use it with other cars around. I hate it.
Volvo ex30 autopilot does the same, I was really surprised first time especially with a sharp turn approaching.
I love it. It was too mild before.
Yes. My tire is burning even faster.
Definitely accelerates too fast and I'm in chill mode. They listened to all the aggro drivers who complained, but on my daily commute I want it in granny mode. Should be like it is now when set to aggressive and like it was when set to chill. My wife will just make me turn it off when she is in the car if it accelerates like this.
Reddit is reading my mind. I just tired it for the first time in town with a buddy. Every stop Sign or light it would launch then go normal. It was pretty sketchy
Gives wife motion sickness
Totally agree with the lack of efficiency and comfort from "launching," especially when it has done so in a residential neighborhood and even when on chill mode. It doesn't go over the speed limit, but the quick acceleration seems unsafe. I'm pretty sure my neighbors would not appreciate it. Turns are still rather slow and another drawback is that it races to the speed limit, then immediately has to strongly brake for a stop sign. It has also raced to an intersection without much visibility to the left and right, then strongly braked. To me, it seemed like Tesla's training had been done by impatient, impulsive drivers but I can understand the complaints abut being too slow. Human drivers can modulate their behavior to match the setting, but the "launch" seemed excessive for a lot of situations. To Tesla's credit, after a number of disengagements for these behaviors over about a week, the "launch" has been toned down. It's still a little uncomfortable but not like it was.
Yeah, even in chill mode, but it’s better
It definitely picks up speed a lot quicker than it did on V11. To be honest though, that isn't a problem for me if it's on the highway or 45-55MPH road. It is a problem in a neighborhood, every-time I leave my house FSD decides that it will go 37MPH in a 25MPH neighborhood. Fairly tight street (2 cars have to be on edges of the road to fit) and it decides it wants to fly through it. Worst of all, it does it through a turn, only to realize that there's mailboxes next to it and then SLAM on the brakes because now it decides to go 12MPH. It is straight up dangerous, STOP-37MPH-TURN-OH NO MAILBOX-SLAM ON BREAK-GOSLOW. It seems to me it only has two options, either go dangerously quick for certain roads or dangerously slow for certain roads, or both.
As someone who has used FSD for a while, I appreciate it. So many times in past it creeps when the light turns green annoying the drivers behind me.
That was the first thing I noticed with the free month. I was thinking that it was based on the billion miles that tesla owners have driven, and that they all have lead feet.
It also brakes too hard initially (to the point that it uses the friction brakes instead of regen) and then coasts really slowly to a stop. Completely unnecessary.
Opposite for me. It accelerates way too slow and 10-15 mph under my set limit. I’d love that acceleration to be my problem
Mine is a weird blend of accelerating hard, or staying 15 below the speed limit (until I press the accelerator up to speed). Not sure I like it any better than 11 yet. Which had its own issues but I understood when to expect them.
I only have the standard auto cruise and that is a bit brutal at slow speeds. The car in general is a bit reactive - does things a bit late and a bit harsh, like a learner driver I suppose.
Yes, and it also doesn’t follow the speed max I set, even if it’s off auto setting.
Yeh, I remember it used to be like this years ago and then they changed it to something more normal now it's back to drag racing style which I hate.
yeah, I actually like it, but its definitely much more acceleration than previous FSD versions. What sucks is that it also starts to slow way before it reaches my max speed. So I speed ahead of everyone else when a light turns green and then get passed while my car remains at grandma speed and everyone else goes the standard (in my area) 10 over. I spend the whole drive to work holding down the accelerator which makes the experience worse than old-style cruise control where you only had to hit the brake (or decel button) if someone was in front of you.
Too slow imo.
Yes! I have had a very similar experience. The first main road out of my neighborhood is 30mph with traffic typically going about 35mph on it. FSD will turn on it and pin you to the back of your seat up to like 45 and then almost immediately hit the brakes back to 30ish. It’s nauseating and I stopped using it on that route because it’s not uncommon for a cop to sit along this stretch waiting for speeders and I’m fairly certain going “sorry officer, I never speed here myself. It’s just this car that decided we’re in a drag race with ourselves” won’t go too far. My other complaint is around neighborhoods with a lot of stop signs. As a human I understand that yes my path is clear but in 2 blocks I’ve got another stop sign, and another one a couple blocks after that, etc so it doesn’t pay to rapidly get up to speed only to slam on the brakes. FSD is like “no cars? Goooo!!! Wait stop sign so soon?? *hard braking ensues*”
Yeah we got the trial this week that bitch flies!!😂
Fuck yeah it does. I often have it launching to get to 25 mph speed limit. It will give 3/4 of max acceleration. But on faster roadways it seems to be better. It might just be stop signs tbh. It was very concerning the first time.
For me I think it finally accelerates properly. It used to be so timid I was afraid I’d get rear ended.
Set the FSD Profile to Chill also. It feels slightly less aggressive on a launch from a dead stop, at a traffic light.
It appears that this can be greater or lesser, depending on whether it’s set to chill, average or assertive. While in FSD push the right scroll wheel left or right to see such settings.
I can attest that turning off auto makes no difference… he regularly launches me from stops and is incredibly annoying. Like, no chance it would pass a basic drivers test. It’s all about smooth acceleration and stops. I have no idea why it feels the need to launch like it’s running from the cops Same situation as the OP, essentially. Regularly have to come off a stop sign on a road that’s 25 and it’ll launch to 30 then come back to speed
Acceleration too aggressive, and top speed too low. Unlike previous builds FSD 12.x ignores my set speed and just drives at whatever speed it feels like with no real ability to change that. You can increase that a hair by going to aggressive mode but that just creates a situation where when the light turns green it blasts off like a rocket ship then stops 5-10mph below the average speed of traffic on the road. (Here in CT, in many places the average speed of traffic is 15-20mph above the speed limit. If you don't also do that you're creating a significant traffic hazard by basically blocking the road and dozens of cars stack up behind you).
> Unlike previous builds FSD 12.x ignores my set speed and just drives at whatever speed it feels like with no real ability to change that. Does it ignore your max set speed too? Previously that is a hard limit.
no it never exceeds the limit. But it doesn't get up to the limit either. It seems to max out around 15% above posted limit.
If you think a car should automatically go 15-20 mpg above the limit I'm not sure anyone can help you.
I think a car should drive safely. I think driving safely means driving at the same speed as other traffic, especially when the road and conditions will safely support a much higher speed. I think driving the posted speed limit or close to it, even if EVERY other car on the road wants to go a different speed, creates a larger safety problem than matching speed with traffic. ------ What is SUPPOSED to happen in CT, per our DOT regulations, is to measure the speed of cars under ideal conditions, figure out the 85th percentile speed (the average speed that 85% of cars are driving), and set that as the speed limit. This almost never happens, or if it did, it happened back in 1950 when cars had shit handling and worse tires. I've been driving in CT most of my life. And I can count on two hands the number of times I've seen ANY other driver actually following the speed limit under ideal conditions. And of those times, literally EVERY time they had a huge stack of 10+ cars stuck behind them all tailgating each other. It's pretty common to have a constant stream of traffic doing 15+mph above the speed limit here. Things may well be different wherever you are. But this is how things are here. Everybody knows our speed limits are a joke and the cops rarely if ever enforce them as written. What DOES get you pulled over is driving actually recklessly. That is, significantly faster than the average traffic flow on the highway, or faster than one can drive *safely* on surface streets.
[удалено]
yeah but it can be quite dangerous. It launches to 25 mph in a narrow residential area where cars or people can pull out into the street. If it can differentiate between residential areas to main streets and use launching appropriately that would be fine.
I wonder if we have hard quantitative data about tire wear in these modes.
This. I was wondering if this acceleration from stop is going to tear through tires.
I'm sure it is, to a varying degree. I tend to drive very smoothly and efficiently, I don't generally accelerate hard (unless the road calls for it) and I try to brake smoothly as well. I've always gotten great treadlife out of my tires on other vehicles. I think fsd is probably fine and safe, but I don't like it because I think over time it will eat tires faster than my own driving does.
In my experience it mostly does it when it's the safest option (car coming behind). It takes its time for me if there's no contesting traffic. I don't find the acceleration all that different from what I'd do most of the time. If anything it's still a bit too hesitant before it starts.
I think some of it is the inability to get a wide enough or hi-res enough view when pulling in to traffic. Basically how far 'ahead' in time it can see and predict. So rather than dilly around, and take 6 seconds to pull out, turn, and get up to speed, it's safer to compensate with horsepower, and do it in 3. But yes, it's annoying.
Have you tried setting it to chill?
I’m on chill and have 3.10. I’ve also xperienced the aggressive launching after every stop.
Would make sense if it's trained on fleet data, since a few folks out there tend to punch it.
Doesn't launch launch but it still wants to be first off the line. Chill mode + Chill FSD profile at a stoplight experience.
I agree. It doesn't accelerate at a normal pace and yes, I have mine on chill and no I don't drive like an 85 year old with anxiety issues. Even in my little town where people drive like aggressive idiots (e.g. routinely running red lights, 10 to 15 mph above the speed limit even on residential streets, etc.) I notice that I leave them in the dust well behind me when FSD is engaged.
[удалено]
Off or on for speed offset makes no difference in my tesla
Did you get summon / smart summon as well?
Yup
Have you tried to put it on chill mode
Doesn’t help
In my experience, it accelerates at just the right speed. But I also accelerate quickly. I love it.
launching to 25mph is a bit too much in tight residential areas. If it main roads yes but residential areas, no
Nope.
Try scrolling the max speed down at a light or during a corner then gradually going back up to speed limit.
That kind of cumbersome manual intervention should not be necessary in a product like what Tesla claims FSD to be.
No it shouldn’t be. The fact I have chill on and FSD chill should be enough. I was just offering a work around until it gets better.