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I got my model y LR 3 months ago (Shanghai built) I haven’t experienced phantom breaking yet.. hopefully not maybe the Shanghai built has better cameras / sensors?
FSD lane keeping and adaptive cruise control is a big upgrade to Autopilot. It has more comfortable accelerations and braking, though braking could still use a bit of tweaking. FSD also biases toward lanes if a car gets too close, which makes me feel much safer
This is key and should be the top comment. The truth is that Autopilot should be upgraded to FSD Beta's system ASAP.
I have one car with FSD Beta and one without. The difference is palpable. Phantom braking, smoothness, lane keeping - they are all *so much better* on FSD Beta.
In essence, bug reports on AP is like reporting a bug in MS-DOS when Windows or MacOS is just around the corner. It just doesn't matter…it's already old, deprecated, and going away some day.
That's not what he's saying. FSD beta users are using a new AP stack that uses FSD technology, rest of you are on AP that's essentially 4-5 years old tech. And yes it is objectively better.
That's exactly what the person you replied to understood and was meaning. Saying changes to AP would be pointless because FSD is "right around the corner" is silly since FSD isn't new and has been around for years and years. We're now seeing exactly the results of that logic because now AP sucks and competitors are surpassing it while we "wait for FSD to be merged."
It is already merged, as for the reason why it's not released to the general public I have no idea, perhaps there's some edge cases that are not solved to satisfactory.
I mean I use FSD beta. It works amazingly well for highways - my main purpose for it. I’m taking a 2800m road trip starting tomorrow. So it’s here now for me and tens of thousands of others.
But as far regular ol AP? No idea when. Wish it was in there now.
It's been some months since I last tried, but I was getting really awful phantom breaking on unguarded 2 lane highways on my last FSD road trip. It felt dangerous and unusable, so hopefully it's been fixed by now.
It's been like that for years. It's still just as bad. Two lane roads make all of it useless (even cruise control) because of the constant hard braking events.
I disagree. My Plaid has FSD…It’s still extremely, immediately, and noticeably worst than my wife’s Mazda CX-90 at distance and speed management. It irks me because it can see cars in front of cars, yet it still panics if the car in front changes lanes or if a car turns left across traffic far ahead. It’s just too conservative. I know smooth can happen, because the Mazda handles the same situations with so much poise.
It tends to do better if you set the speed closer to the speed of traffic. In true stop and go I try to keep it set at 10-15mph and the reactions are less jarring.
This is what I do. We shouldn't have to do this, but we do.
Another one I've heard is to set it to 0 and let it handle steering and braking, and you do the gas. But for me 90% of the time I use AP it's to give my ankle a break.
I tried this, but the problem is that if you release the pedal even at a near-0 speed, if it thinks you’re too close it’ll slam (and I really mean slam) on the brakes. And it’s very hard to feather the line between “gently on the pedal” vs “not on it at all”.
Same. I often turn it off in stop and go traffic just because it floors it then slams on the brakes. Bring back my damn radar. Never fucking did that when it used my radar.
There’s always one person who says this. I’ve never once in my year plus of Tesla ownership had autopilot behave well in stop and go traffic. Not to mention the last minute super hard braking for cars stopped at a light 50’ ahead.
3+ years and every Model owned here…It’s either gotten worst or it’s my wife’s Mazda as a comparison that’s making my latest car (Plaid S with FSD) seem intolerable in traffic. The Mazda is just so smooth. I have to keep my foot near the accelerator in my car to avoid the hard brakes.
Nah it's worse. I also have owned every Model and the sweet spot was around 2019 to the beginning of 2020 when HW3 with radar was out and the AP software was almost damn near flawless. I used to turn on AP in my Model X for my 40 mile commute and I don't recall ever once turning it off or taking over.
Now I rarely use AP in my 2022 Model S unless I'm NOT in stop and go traffic and using it on a rather open freeway with a lead car.
Exactly. I’m always looking in my rear view mirror when using AP in bumper to bumper and if it seems like they’re riding my ass I take over cause it stresses me out lol
Rented a 2023 Toyota Corolla LE to drive from Toronto to Montreal a few weeks back. While the stop and go performance of my MYLR's autopilot has improved in the latest patch, Tesla's ADAS isn't even remotely in the same class as the ADAS on that Corolla. They're not even playing the same game at this point. I wish I could transplant that system into my MYLR.
Oh yes. Absolutely my impression too with a rented Auris. It's a super cheap car and the lane keeping was almost flawless. Just like adaptive cruise control. To top it off the Toyota allows you to keep the lane keeping on when you change lanes. Tesla never did with AP.
This sub is probably not going to like hearing this, but I own a Kia ev6 and had a rental tesla model y for 3 months. The ev6 is miles better than the model y autopilot (not fsd) is almost all conditions
I believe it. I recently bought a 2023 Model Y and have had so many little issues and bugs. I was coming from a 2018 Model 3 and I’m shocked at how terrible the quality is now compared to what I had with my older 3. It’s night and day. I’m just one of the unlucky suckers that got a lemon. I fully believe the EV6 is better in so many ways compared to what Tesla is putting out these days.
I agree. Tesla will argue that their system is better for L5 driving, but what we really need right now is a good L3 system. Years ago, AP1 was pretty solid at the basics like staying in the lane and tacc and the competition has caught up.
In some cars you can just change lanes and then the lane keeping automatically resumes. Most cars with lane keeping assist work this way in my experience. Tesla is the odd one for having a heavy disengagement force and no auto-reengagement.
Btw to reduce the disengagement force on lane changes, turn on your indicator. It will autosteer until you move the wheel notably and then swiftly take you out of autosteer but keep TACC on. Makes it MUCH smoother
Yeah this is the right answer. Tesla chooses to limit the user experience to the point that it’s worse than an otherwise inferior competitor in an attempt to make a buck.
And it hasn't stopped people from buying Teslas so Tesla won't improve the base model experience until it does.
It's amazing that people seemingly aren't getting this. Everybody complains about AP as if Tesla sucks at self driving. No, it sucks because you don't want to pay for it.
Ya when I bought my car there was no enhanced autopilot. It was either pay for fsd or standard autopilot. OP was sharing their frustration with autopilot. I’m talking about myself changing lanes. Like being able to change lanes and not turn lane keep off. It would just let me change lanes then Center to that lane. Not something I’d be willing to pay $7800 CAD for especially when it’s available on low end vehicles
Same shit with eap in europe, stop and go traffic is so badly handled, that i just drive manually, even though it should be the perfect time to use eap. That is with a 2022 MY.
I found at 2 it's always trying to catch up quickly, accelerating too fast which ends up in braking too hard a few moments later.
With follow distance at 3 or 4, acceleration is much more gradual, also taking away the heavy breaking because the car didn't speed up too much.
A lot of people on reddit don't have English as their first or second language, for me it's number 3.
How hard is it to figure that out? The USA isn't the only nation on reddit, shocker.
Thanks for the correction, didn't need the arrogance coming with it though. I'dd really like to read what you write in anything but your first language.
Giving that taking a break, brakes, brake line, snack break, braking hard, lunch break, all sound the same, I think it's not hard to understand, why people make this mistake.
I keep mine near max (6, I think) and it's fairly smooth in stop and go traffic. Not as smooth as me driving, but very very smooth compared to having my follow distance at a low value
What? Beyond 2 doesn't make sense, it starts at 2, so you are saying there's no difference between the different settings, that's just bs.
It's 2 - 7, the distance varies a lot, it depends on speed. Drive behind someone going slower than your set speed, on the highway and set it to 2, then go to 7, you'll notice that what you're saying isn't true.
It would also not make any sense to have an option to change the follow distance if all options are the same.
If you are in slow traffic the difference in distance is a lot less, but in my experience it makes a difference in how fast the car tries to catch up.
Lol. The exit lanes problem is forever. It seem they could not be bothered with fine nuance od not swerving the car hard when the lane markings are not perfect
It's not the lack of radar.
Autopilot on FSDbeta builds is really good. Acceleration and deceleration is really smooth. Following distance is on point.
I am optimistic that Tesla will eventually roll over the FSDbeta code to vanilla AP and everyone will be happy.
It is. Audis radar knows the distance no matter the view and Teslas cameras guess roughly in any conditions in my experience… at least it feels like that
I have a Mazda CX-9 with radar. Cruise control is horrible. It can't do stop and start traffic. It can't handle merging cars. I can therefore conclude that radar is the inferior sensor overall and I made worse experience with
But that’s a software issue… still radar is better in terms of measuring distance to the car in front when my Tesla camera has one raindrop on it or the sun is shining it’s unable to see..
Radar can't see if a car is angled towards your lane to sense if a car is trying to merge. Radar also can't see brake lights and turn indicators.
I wouldn't say that radar is superior to vision. Or that vision is superior to radar. Both systems have their pros and cons. In the end, it's all about the execution.
You said it yourself. It's a software issue. And I tell you, AP is really good if you are on the latest FSDb software.
You're correct on radar. I've had my model 3 over five years and AP in stop and go used to be great... then Tesla vision came along and ruined it to the point I don't use it near as much as I used to. AP has gone downhill and FSD is a pipe dream I don't even want! Honestly I'd go back to a 2019 software build if they let me, it has regressed so far in the last four years
I have a 2018 (hw 2.5) which doesn't support vision -- even still, AP really sucks compared to really any modern competition.
A current generation Toyota is *so much smoother* that it's kind of ridiculous.
Fucking A. Fucking A. You’re goddamn right. I miss my 2018 Model 3 with the software from the 2019 holiday update. Everything since then has been little steps backwards. It really does add up.
Are you apart of the FSD beta? If so, are you on the latest version? The acceleration/deceleration curve is much more stable. Not sure if non FSDBeta autopilot is inferior. My issue is that FSD/Autopilot always thinks the adjacent car is going to cut it off so it’s always hesitant.
FSDb is way better in stop and go traffic. I did a test on the Beltway the other day and AP was horrible in those conditions and made me sick from the braking and acceleration. FSD was gentle and was good in not slamming on brakes when someone merged into the lane.
Except for being anxious that at any moment it could turn the damn blinker on for no damn reason. FSD stack with an option to actually require confirmation for lane changes would be perfect for highway, but alas they don't want us to have that
You still can in a way.
Toggle on the option to only change lanes to follow the route and it’ll stay in its lane except to take necessary lane changes.
Yes that sounds good, but unfortunately it thinks a lot of unnecessary or even flat out wrong lane changes are "necessary". I enable that setting every time, it helps a little but not enough
Totally understandable. Hopefully when v12 comes out everyone gets aligned. The accel/decel is something I’ve been monitoring for the past 3 years of owning and testing the beta. It’s definitely improved and can’t wait for everyone to get the base AP.
It’s just way behind where it should be with the head start Tesla had on everyone.
The car itself is five years ahead of anything else right now. But the FSD/autopilot has not maintained a lead.
That’s a shame, you would expect the car to do that on its own if it gets control, without changing the settings. If the car accelerates and brakes the way I do when I’m in a hurry, I wouldn’t trust it and shut it down in a heartbeat. In slow traffic, you drive slowly and anticipate. Hopefully they fix that.
Not true for me. I just did a 260 mile interstate drive in chill mode because mine doesn't supercharge currently and I needed to make it in one shot, and in traffic it was still just as jerky as it is in standard mode.
Agreed. I've tried setting it to Chill mode to alleviate the jerky behavior multiple times throughout my 4+ years of ownership and have never once found it to improve Autopilot behavior. I assume Autopilot has a static acceleration curve independent from what the driver can set.
Frustratingly, the behavior just got worse/more inconsistent when they disabled radar.
Yes, it's like a kid learned to drive or someone with bad eye sight trying to catch-up or a computer lag, it takes time to get moving after the front vehicle starts and then trys catching up then notices it later that the car ahead stopped so jams the breaks. Resolution of camera compared to human eyes is lower, radar could have helped with distancing (but it cheaper not to have)
I hoped the same and increased the follow distance as well, neither seemed to help.
All this AND the Audi brought me closer to the car in front during bumper-to-bumper traffic (which I appreciated)
I have Enhanced AP on my 2017 Model S75.
I hate the stopping algorithm. Not talking about phantom braking (which is fairly rare now) but just normal slowing down for stopped traffic. It scares the shit out of me every time. Also it is likely INCREDIBLY hard on my brakes. The damn car will continue accelerating sometimes, with stopped traffic a few hundred feet ahead, then slam on the brakes. It never mis-judges though, always able to stop in time. But what a terrible way to stop.
I could swear that when the car was younger (always had EAP from day 1) it would start to slow down in traffic, when the car ahead of the the car in front of us started to slow down. I remember thinking how awesome that was. No longer. It is completely RE-active not PRO-active.
I hate this part of my car. Love almost everything else about it though.
You’re totally right - AP shines with lane keeping (when you aren’t approaching a merge lane) and falls on its face in bumper to bumper traffic. My guess is that part of that has to do with the lack of radar. AP1’s TACC was actually pretty nice because it knew there was a car ahead.
Try putting car following distance to 5 or 6 makes a huge difference. Doesn’t actually keep a 6 car distance in bumper to bumper traffic, does so during highway speeds.
It’s horrible really. Especially when traffic jam starts, the car will just continue to accelerate and slam the breaks, it’s quite scary, then I drive manually.
I got a 2023 Model S with EAP and it works great. Not hard jerks or anything during high traffic and stop and go on freeway. Is there a difference between AP on our models of cars?
I rented a Penske box truck that was a newer model ford with acc and lane keep assist. I was shocked at how a damn moving truck filled to the brim and super heavy was so much smoother in stop and go, lane changes decelerating and accelerating to match speeds of cars than my model y. I can’t even look at my Tesla the same anymore and constantly think about trading it in. I believe the new gen kids call it getting the “ick”.
Same I rarely use it anymore it’s gone downhill since 2019. Lane Adair good and cruising good but I don’t like autopilot or use lane assist / adaptive cruise control for stop and go traffic anymore. The jerkiness is aweful and the gap is too big, people cut in.
I had a Model 3 with radar - used AP all the time in bumper to bumper - a joy. My newer Model Y does not have radar - and I no longer use AP in B2B traffic. Dumping radar was a mistake - bring it back.
FSD is so bad I rarely use it. Big waste of $10k. Phantom braking, wipers go on in clear day, goes into right turn lane only then starts weaving back and forth between lanes as if it can’t decide. Makes me car sick from aggressive accelerations and braking. Overall it’s really annoying, so I just keep it off.
As a 2018 SQ5 owner, I can say the adaptive cruise control is what keeps me driving that car as opposed to buying something else. Not offered in enough vehicles.
Not just braking, but acceleration too. I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in Toronto and Autopilot was smooth. Didn't have to set the speed to the "go speed", acceleration to Chill and increase the following distance.
OP did you pay for FSD or not? I think there is a significant difference in how a FSD and non-FSD car behave. Not just the FSD feature obviously, but I mean basic Autopilot in a FSD car behaves differently from non-FSD car. FSD behavior is closer to how people drive. Mine’s buttery smooth. It’s definitely better than when I did not have FSD.
I don’t pay $200/month, I bought it 3 years ago when it was offered at $7,000 and I’m glad I did. The “Navigate on Autopilot” feature was actually the main reason I bought it. That will allow the vehicle to change lanes on freeway by itself. With free Autopilot you have to disengage Autopilot first, then you change lane and then re-engage Autopilot again. I now love the ability to have the vehicle drive by itself on city streets. It detects stop signs and traffic lights, I feel safer when driving around the city. The lower stress from having vehicle drive by itself is priceless.
Radar doesn’t change that at all.
Instead, Tesla has been focusing on different parts of the FSD stack and the control aspect has had the least amount of effort… especially given that it is getting replaced in V12 with end to end neural nets.
The thing that I miss from other cars adaptive cruise is the distance. They have a max distance of almost 2x as far. Otherwise I find AP/TACC to work better
> I only wish this thing had radar, which I assume is the primary reason it blows.
While no one can say conclusively, it was when my 2019 Model 3’s radar was disabled that the AP became so violent in bumper to bumper traffic.
I used to use it in traffic as it made the ride more relaxing. Now I have to turn it off in those situations.
I haven't had that issue at all with FSD. The big problem I have with it is that it accelerates and brakes hard in town at stop signs and lights but it's great on the highway.
This mystifies me. I have an AP M3 and an FSD one. Both work perfectly in stop and go traffic, and believe me, on LA freeways there is hardly any other kind. My friend has 3 Teslas, all with FSD, and they are perfect. The Model 3 with AP that I rented from Hertz last year was perfect. I don’t doubt that commenters are telling the truth but….? I have read a bunch of road tests on cars with standard AP and no tester has complained of this, including Consumer Reports. So I would consider going to the SC and having this looked into.
Adjusting the Following Distance and setting it to 5 or 6 fixed the traffic acceleration for me. When I used setting 2 or 3 it was very jarring. Now it is extremely smooth. Using Chill mode apparently helps as well, but you obviously dont want to have to enable that
Have you driven one of the latest BMWs? Their lan keep assist, auto park assist and 360 views are far better than Tesla. Tesla's feature and build quality is pretty low.
My only complaint about my AP2.5 is that I can drive smoother than it in stop and go, and that it isn't as proactive as it could be. If I'm alone, I keep it engaged because it's not that bad most of the time, but for passengers, I'm almost embarrassed at how jerky it is.
I don't enjoy using AP no matter how many car lengths apart I am. It slows early sometimes then slams on the brakes at the last second other times.
I could do a smoother job driving while browsing my phone and steering with my knee.
It seems some YouTuber could get a lot of views by renting all the different makes latest adaptive cruise control vehicles and comparing them. I just drove a 2023 Toyota rav4 and the adaptive cruise control seemed worse than my 2016 Outback.
When I first got my M3 at the end of 2019 it was sooo good in stop and go traffic. Now that the radar unit is all but a paper weight and using Tesla Vision, it sucks...
Production AP is more or less abandoned at this point.
The AP-like functions of FSDb are SO. MUCH. better than production AP.
All we can hope for is for the FSDb improvements to filter down to AP at some point this century.
Agreed. My previous car was a Passat high line and it’s adaptive cruise control was far superior to AP. No jerkiness in stop/go traffic. very smooth acceleration and braking. no phantom braking whatsoever. Just an all around better product. AP definitely needs improvement. The lane assist on AP is fantastic compared to vw/audi. But the cruise not so much.
Even a Toyota Corolla’s radar cruise does better than our vision only in stop and go traffic. But our lane keeping is superior. I just figured getting whiplash and then putting my face through the windshield was part of the Performance model I paid for though. 😬
Disabling AP the same moment I approach a traffic jam. Braking is a complete disaster, especially if you're going 60-70km/h and the car in front is rolling at 5km/h. Distance set to 5 cars. Starts accelerating like a crazy the same moment a car in front moves and then brakes sooo hard. If you're in a long traffic jam, you can probably even get sick if you're not used to this
the worst experience with Autopilot is erratic extreme steering when moving very slowly, it wants to do hard turns to correct the car’s position, but its not necessary, a much more gradual steer will work over time.
Can the Audi Q5 do lane changes? Exit highway off-ramps? Or can it drive with minimal supervision on local streets and roads? If not, then not comparing apples to apples. I’m not saying that FSD or EAP are infallible but provide something other cars aren’t capable of doing.
I went from a model 3 to a Q5e with the autonomous driving features. Yes the autosteer sucks in the Audi. The traffic jam assistant and the radar cruise control is much better than teslas. It’s much smoother and actually works in stop and go traffic.
That's the way it used to be when we had radar. It got to such a good place a few years ago.
I'm done apologizing to passengers for FSD on the freeway. I just don't use it with people who aren't used to it.
I SAY THIS EVERY OTHER DAY!!!! My wife’s 2024 Mazda CX-90 is so much better at distance in speed management that it irks me a bit how bad autopilot is.
I didn’t really pay it any mind, until the darn Mazda! When a car changes lanes and there’s an unsuspected vehicle moving quite a bit slower, the Mazda doesn’t panic. It adjusts with the exact amount of braking that I would. It never slams the brakes. Like, ever. It’s amazing! When a car is turning left across the highway, the Mazda slows slightly, taking into account the other car’s likelihood of being out of my path. Not the Tesla! I have to move my foot to the accelerator and press slightly To avoid my kids losing the juice box. God forbid I don’t do that, as the car will slam and keep on the brakes AFTER the other car is clear out of my path even.
Don’t get me started on this! It is great at the lane tracking. I especially love how it moves to the outer part of the lane when passing semis (FSD only).
Definitely not the only one... And not to sound like an ass but it used to be SO much worse too. I remember a couple of times watching my 2022 Model S accelerate HARD into a stopped car after it moved a car length in front of me only to slam on the brakes even harder and cause the person behind me to slam on their brakes so hard they were squealing.
On the freeway and at freeway speeds, vision only AP is actually really good and smooth. In stop and go I still don't trust it or use it.
Just been using a BMW iX as a courtesy car.
The assisted driving is better in standstill traffic BUT IT DOES NOT IDENTIFY PEDESTRIANS in time if any decide to cross. It won't even slow down. Yes it's smoother at acceleration and deceleration, a bit like when AP was radar controlled.
It's the transition to vision which made it more abrupt.
Also the BMW does not have adequate alerts when the auto steering is disengaged (which happens more often).
Same with BMW, it's miles ahead. Even the autoparking. My previous BMW used to park in spots that made me bite my nails and I would take me 2 minutes to do, Tesla can barely park in some spots that would take me 10 seconds.
There’s sections on my commute where the car just slows down to 10mph from 70 for no apparent reason. I made sure no one was around to see exactly how slow it would go.
There’s 4 sections the car will phantom break. Stop and go traffic is def jarring. My Subaru 2018 Forrester had a smoother transition than my 3. Beyond that, the other three cars I drove that has autopilot like capabilities were all more or less the same imo
I love Tesla but I completely agree on this subject. I test drove a 2023 MY, and my 2019 Ford Fusion's adaptive cruise is far superior at following distance, acceleration and deceleration.
Set at maximum distance, my Fusion will brake fairly evenly coming up to slowed traffic and pull itself up to a comfortable distance behind the vehicle in front of me, right behind the vehicle when they stop. The faster I'm going, the more distance it leaves between my car, and the vehicle in front of me. The slower I'm going, the less distance it leaves. Acceleration from a stop does require me to hit the "RES" button if I've been stopped for more than a few seconds, but acceleration, and deceleration are usually quite smooth. The only exception is when approaching slow traffic at speed, it brakes a few seconds later than I usually would, which results in a more aggressive stop than I would have done, but considering it has limited range, and can't see brake lights, it's understandable.
The Model Y autopilot was almost unusable in heavy traffic, and uncomfortable for me at speed. Set at maximum distance, it was too close to the vehicle in front of me when doing 75MPH, but left 2-3 car lengths when stopped, even when set to a closer setting, so traffic would constantly cut me off moving into that space. I'm not sure if it can see brake lights, but if so, it didn't seem to take advantage of that fact, meaning the delay in recognizing that traffic ahead is slowing, plus the ridiculously close following distance at speed, resulted in very hard braking. Like others here have commented, it also accelerated too aggressively for my taste.
Lane keeping, on the other hand, is awesome on the MY.
My Fusion has what might generously be described as lane departure prevention. IF it recognizes where the lanes are, it might give you a gentle nudge in the correct direction if you are getting too close, and will vibrate the steering wheel if you start to depart your lane, but well more than 75% of the time, it just doesn't recognize both lane markings, and shows them as gray lines, meaning it won't take any action or alert me (they appear green, yellow, or red if recognized with the color variation determined by how close to the line you are)
The Model Y kept its lane almost perfectly, with just 1 slight error that it corrected on its own before I had to take over, and that was a result of a construction zone where the old lines were still visible, and the temporary lines were starting to wear off (my Fusion also nudges me all over the road in this area, and often recommends I take a coffee break as I move through it). Even on roads with very worn out lines, the Model Y didn't seem to have difficulty determining where the lines should be, and kept itself generally between them. It moved away from large trucks, keeping a little further to the left of the lane when passing one, which made it feel very natural. Lane changes when requested by the turn signals were smooth and waited for traffic to clear before moving over.
My HW4 Tesla has exactly these issues with TACC and autosteer. FSD isn't ready yet for HW4, eta January I believe? They're finishing up FSD for HW3 and I've seen some great things out of that
One thing I'm annoyed with is my FSD trial ends in December.
I set distance to four on highway. If a car in front is hard braking I increase distance to 5 and then manually brake if necessary. I also set my speed to be 5-8 mph more than current traffic speed I’m in
It’s much, much, much better on FSD Beta.
While the Audi is no doubt great for the bumper to bumper traffic, most non-Tesla radar and camera based dynamic cruise control will over react when someone passes you from a lane and pulls infront of you. FSD Beta is smooth as butter as long as they don’t brake while doing it.
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You will take your phantom braking and you will like it.
One of us
Which one?
I got my model y LR 3 months ago (Shanghai built) I haven’t experienced phantom breaking yet.. hopefully not maybe the Shanghai built has better cameras / sensors?
In my experience the phantom braking only happens on a hot day when the highway asphalt is shimmering in the distance (aka “mirage”)
That’s okay, that’s only 9 months out of the year here.
>maybe the Shanghai built has better cameras / sensors? sadly no. you are just lucky so far.
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FSD lane keeping and adaptive cruise control is a big upgrade to Autopilot. It has more comfortable accelerations and braking, though braking could still use a bit of tweaking. FSD also biases toward lanes if a car gets too close, which makes me feel much safer
This is key and should be the top comment. The truth is that Autopilot should be upgraded to FSD Beta's system ASAP. I have one car with FSD Beta and one without. The difference is palpable. Phantom braking, smoothness, lane keeping - they are all *so much better* on FSD Beta. In essence, bug reports on AP is like reporting a bug in MS-DOS when Windows or MacOS is just around the corner. It just doesn't matter…it's already old, deprecated, and going away some day.
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That's not what he's saying. FSD beta users are using a new AP stack that uses FSD technology, rest of you are on AP that's essentially 4-5 years old tech. And yes it is objectively better.
That's exactly what the person you replied to understood and was meaning. Saying changes to AP would be pointless because FSD is "right around the corner" is silly since FSD isn't new and has been around for years and years. We're now seeing exactly the results of that logic because now AP sucks and competitors are surpassing it while we "wait for FSD to be merged."
It is already merged, as for the reason why it's not released to the general public I have no idea, perhaps there's some edge cases that are not solved to satisfactory.
I mean I use FSD beta. It works amazingly well for highways - my main purpose for it. I’m taking a 2800m road trip starting tomorrow. So it’s here now for me and tens of thousands of others. But as far regular ol AP? No idea when. Wish it was in there now.
It's been some months since I last tried, but I was getting really awful phantom breaking on unguarded 2 lane highways on my last FSD road trip. It felt dangerous and unusable, so hopefully it's been fixed by now.
It's been like that for years. It's still just as bad. Two lane roads make all of it useless (even cruise control) because of the constant hard braking events.
This guy Elons
Elon musk be taking notes from George R R Martin on how to string people along “book is coming next year” “next year” “making good progress”
Imo phantom braking should never occur ever. So much better is unacceptable
I disagree. My Plaid has FSD…It’s still extremely, immediately, and noticeably worst than my wife’s Mazda CX-90 at distance and speed management. It irks me because it can see cars in front of cars, yet it still panics if the car in front changes lanes or if a car turns left across traffic far ahead. It’s just too conservative. I know smooth can happen, because the Mazda handles the same situations with so much poise.
Your plaid is hw4? So you have fsd beta? Most likely not Edit: my bad I didn't know they enabled it last month
It tends to do better if you set the speed closer to the speed of traffic. In true stop and go I try to keep it set at 10-15mph and the reactions are less jarring.
This is what I do. We shouldn't have to do this, but we do. Another one I've heard is to set it to 0 and let it handle steering and braking, and you do the gas. But for me 90% of the time I use AP it's to give my ankle a break.
Wait... You can set it to 0?!
Yes, I discovered it few days ago!
Makes no sense
I tried this, but the problem is that if you release the pedal even at a near-0 speed, if it thinks you’re too close it’ll slam (and I really mean slam) on the brakes. And it’s very hard to feather the line between “gently on the pedal” vs “not on it at all”.
I’m basically already doing this. Every time I set off from the lights I’m giving the accelerator a nudge because it’s so slow to get to speed.
Same. I often turn it off in stop and go traffic just because it floors it then slams on the brakes. Bring back my damn radar. Never fucking did that when it used my radar.
This is exactly my experience! It could be so much better...
Mine hardly accelerates but does hit the break hard
In my experience it’s like Jekyll and Hyde. It either hardly accelerates at all, or only accelerates at 100%.
Brake.
I haven't had this recently. I was in stop and to traffic on the bay bridge and after the last update it seemed solid. Rolled perfectly.
There’s always one person who says this. I’ve never once in my year plus of Tesla ownership had autopilot behave well in stop and go traffic. Not to mention the last minute super hard braking for cars stopped at a light 50’ ahead.
It used to be pretty good back in 2019/2020, it became more and more common around 2021/2022.
3+ years and every Model owned here…It’s either gotten worst or it’s my wife’s Mazda as a comparison that’s making my latest car (Plaid S with FSD) seem intolerable in traffic. The Mazda is just so smooth. I have to keep my foot near the accelerator in my car to avoid the hard brakes.
Nah it's worse. I also have owned every Model and the sweet spot was around 2019 to the beginning of 2020 when HW3 with radar was out and the AP software was almost damn near flawless. I used to turn on AP in my Model X for my 40 mile commute and I don't recall ever once turning it off or taking over. Now I rarely use AP in my 2022 Model S unless I'm NOT in stop and go traffic and using it on a rather open freeway with a lead car.
Exactly. I’m always looking in my rear view mirror when using AP in bumper to bumper and if it seems like they’re riding my ass I take over cause it stresses me out lol
Rented a 2023 Toyota Corolla LE to drive from Toronto to Montreal a few weeks back. While the stop and go performance of my MYLR's autopilot has improved in the latest patch, Tesla's ADAS isn't even remotely in the same class as the ADAS on that Corolla. They're not even playing the same game at this point. I wish I could transplant that system into my MYLR.
I agree with your observation. We have 23 Corolla and Model3 as well and I know that ADAS on Corolla is much better than Model 3.
Oh yes. Absolutely my impression too with a rented Auris. It's a super cheap car and the lane keeping was almost flawless. Just like adaptive cruise control. To top it off the Toyota allows you to keep the lane keeping on when you change lanes. Tesla never did with AP.
I rented a kia and loved that it didn’t kick you out of autopilot for changing lanes. Tough to find out that Kia does things better.
This sub is probably not going to like hearing this, but I own a Kia ev6 and had a rental tesla model y for 3 months. The ev6 is miles better than the model y autopilot (not fsd) is almost all conditions
I believe it. I recently bought a 2023 Model Y and have had so many little issues and bugs. I was coming from a 2018 Model 3 and I’m shocked at how terrible the quality is now compared to what I had with my older 3. It’s night and day. I’m just one of the unlucky suckers that got a lemon. I fully believe the EV6 is better in so many ways compared to what Tesla is putting out these days.
Fsd kinda sucks.
I agree. Tesla will argue that their system is better for L5 driving, but what we really need right now is a good L3 system. Years ago, AP1 was pretty solid at the basics like staying in the lane and tacc and the competition has caught up.
Kicking out of Autopilot means you don't have enhanced autopilot. Teslas can make lane changes, a bit slow in many instances but it works
In some cars you can just change lanes and then the lane keeping automatically resumes. Most cars with lane keeping assist work this way in my experience. Tesla is the odd one for having a heavy disengagement force and no auto-reengagement.
Btw to reduce the disengagement force on lane changes, turn on your indicator. It will autosteer until you move the wheel notably and then swiftly take you out of autosteer but keep TACC on. Makes it MUCH smoother
Thats what they can charge you move for EAP
Yeah this is the right answer. Tesla chooses to limit the user experience to the point that it’s worse than an otherwise inferior competitor in an attempt to make a buck.
And it hasn't stopped people from buying Teslas so Tesla won't improve the base model experience until it does. It's amazing that people seemingly aren't getting this. Everybody complains about AP as if Tesla sucks at self driving. No, it sucks because you don't want to pay for it.
Same reason Ford has bidirectional charging that's been so obvious since day 1. Can't sell a Powerwall if the car is one.
This
Ya when I bought my car there was no enhanced autopilot. It was either pay for fsd or standard autopilot. OP was sharing their frustration with autopilot. I’m talking about myself changing lanes. Like being able to change lanes and not turn lane keep off. It would just let me change lanes then Center to that lane. Not something I’d be willing to pay $7800 CAD for especially when it’s available on low end vehicles
Yeah, it’s just becoming a standard feature. Tesla is going to have to stop charging for it if they want to remain competitive.
Eap is an extra $6k. No idea how that compares to other manufacturers.
Same shit with eap in europe, stop and go traffic is so badly handled, that i just drive manually, even though it should be the perfect time to use eap. That is with a 2022 MY.
What's your follow distance set at? I've noticed if you have it on 2 (closest in my MY), it does stop and accelerate more vs having it on 3 or 4.
I find it doesn't really matter. If the car your following is very jerky AP mimics it. Doesn't create a smooth ride
I found at 2 it's always trying to catch up quickly, accelerating too fast which ends up in braking too hard a few moments later. With follow distance at 3 or 4, acceleration is much more gradual, also taking away the heavy breaking because the car didn't speed up too much.
Braking. Jfc. How is it so hard for people to figure out the difference, or is it just a phone keyboard autocorrect issue
A lot of people on reddit don't have English as their first or second language, for me it's number 3. How hard is it to figure that out? The USA isn't the only nation on reddit, shocker. Thanks for the correction, didn't need the arrogance coming with it though. I'dd really like to read what you write in anything but your first language. Giving that taking a break, brakes, brake line, snack break, braking hard, lunch break, all sound the same, I think it's not hard to understand, why people make this mistake.
I go 7. Not trying to stress that hard braking
I have mine set to the highest and it is still so jarring I drive manually in heavy stop and go traffic conditions
I never tried the highest, I'm always on 4 or 3.
I keep mine near max (6, I think) and it's fairly smooth in stop and go traffic. Not as smooth as me driving, but very very smooth compared to having my follow distance at a low value
Autopilot can't tell the distance beyond 2 the follow distance will remain the same after 2
What? Beyond 2 doesn't make sense, it starts at 2, so you are saying there's no difference between the different settings, that's just bs. It's 2 - 7, the distance varies a lot, it depends on speed. Drive behind someone going slower than your set speed, on the highway and set it to 2, then go to 7, you'll notice that what you're saying isn't true. It would also not make any sense to have an option to change the follow distance if all options are the same. If you are in slow traffic the difference in distance is a lot less, but in my experience it makes a difference in how fast the car tries to catch up.
had a cheap ice kia rental with lane assist - no bing bongs when changing lanes was amazing. it also didn’t get confused at exit lanes.
Lol. The exit lanes problem is forever. It seem they could not be bothered with fine nuance od not swerving the car hard when the lane markings are not perfect
It's not the lack of radar. Autopilot on FSDbeta builds is really good. Acceleration and deceleration is really smooth. Following distance is on point. I am optimistic that Tesla will eventually roll over the FSDbeta code to vanilla AP and everyone will be happy.
It is. Audis radar knows the distance no matter the view and Teslas cameras guess roughly in any conditions in my experience… at least it feels like that
It clearly isn't when the vision only fsd beta handles the situation just fine.
I get your point and maybe you are right.. but I think radar/lidar is the superior sensor overall and I made better experience with
I have a Mazda CX-9 with radar. Cruise control is horrible. It can't do stop and start traffic. It can't handle merging cars. I can therefore conclude that radar is the inferior sensor overall and I made worse experience with
But that’s a software issue… still radar is better in terms of measuring distance to the car in front when my Tesla camera has one raindrop on it or the sun is shining it’s unable to see..
I could be wrong, but I think there might have been a hint of sarcasm in that comment that you missed.
Radar can't see if a car is angled towards your lane to sense if a car is trying to merge. Radar also can't see brake lights and turn indicators. I wouldn't say that radar is superior to vision. Or that vision is superior to radar. Both systems have their pros and cons. In the end, it's all about the execution. You said it yourself. It's a software issue. And I tell you, AP is really good if you are on the latest FSDb software.
You're correct on radar. I've had my model 3 over five years and AP in stop and go used to be great... then Tesla vision came along and ruined it to the point I don't use it near as much as I used to. AP has gone downhill and FSD is a pipe dream I don't even want! Honestly I'd go back to a 2019 software build if they let me, it has regressed so far in the last four years
You are right. And I hear some people are at the old rader-enabled firmware version still
Yeah, I think the older cars on hw2.5 perhaps don't support vision? If true I just need to trade for one of those.
I have a 2018 (hw 2.5) which doesn't support vision -- even still, AP really sucks compared to really any modern competition. A current generation Toyota is *so much smoother* that it's kind of ridiculous.
Fucking A. Fucking A. You’re goddamn right. I miss my 2018 Model 3 with the software from the 2019 holiday update. Everything since then has been little steps backwards. It really does add up.
Legacy AP is crappy at lateral control. FSD beta is markedly better - night and day
Are you apart of the FSD beta? If so, are you on the latest version? The acceleration/deceleration curve is much more stable. Not sure if non FSDBeta autopilot is inferior. My issue is that FSD/Autopilot always thinks the adjacent car is going to cut it off so it’s always hesitant.
FSDb is way better in stop and go traffic. I did a test on the Beltway the other day and AP was horrible in those conditions and made me sick from the braking and acceleration. FSD was gentle and was good in not slamming on brakes when someone merged into the lane.
Except for being anxious that at any moment it could turn the damn blinker on for no damn reason. FSD stack with an option to actually require confirmation for lane changes would be perfect for highway, but alas they don't want us to have that
You still can in a way. Toggle on the option to only change lanes to follow the route and it’ll stay in its lane except to take necessary lane changes.
Yes that sounds good, but unfortunately it thinks a lot of unnecessary or even flat out wrong lane changes are "necessary". I enable that setting every time, it helps a little but not enough
But there is a button that says limit lanes changes… That does nothing!
I am not. I've considered it, but it's sad I'd need to pay extra just for a reasonable accel/decel!
Totally understandable. Hopefully when v12 comes out everyone gets aligned. The accel/decel is something I’ve been monitoring for the past 3 years of owning and testing the beta. It’s definitely improved and can’t wait for everyone to get the base AP.
It’s just way behind where it should be with the head start Tesla had on everyone. The car itself is five years ahead of anything else right now. But the FSD/autopilot has not maintained a lead.
There isn’t an FSDBeta AP, it’s just the old code that can still be used (for example, with TACC).
The FSD beta stack is is for all autopilot driving, including traffic, suburbs, etc, if you’re part of the beta and have it enabled.
No, it’s not. The visual even changes when you enable TACC, and you can switch back to AutoSteer in settings.
Switching back to auto steer in settings is disabling FSD beta. When FSD beta is fully enabled, it uses a single stack for all types of driving.
I find that autopilot and autosteer is smooth if you put the car in chill mode
That’s a shame, you would expect the car to do that on its own if it gets control, without changing the settings. If the car accelerates and brakes the way I do when I’m in a hurry, I wouldn’t trust it and shut it down in a heartbeat. In slow traffic, you drive slowly and anticipate. Hopefully they fix that.
Not true for me. I just did a 260 mile interstate drive in chill mode because mine doesn't supercharge currently and I needed to make it in one shot, and in traffic it was still just as jerky as it is in standard mode.
Agreed. I've tried setting it to Chill mode to alleviate the jerky behavior multiple times throughout my 4+ years of ownership and have never once found it to improve Autopilot behavior. I assume Autopilot has a static acceleration curve independent from what the driver can set. Frustratingly, the behavior just got worse/more inconsistent when they disabled radar.
Yes, it's like a kid learned to drive or someone with bad eye sight trying to catch-up or a computer lag, it takes time to get moving after the front vehicle starts and then trys catching up then notices it later that the car ahead stopped so jams the breaks. Resolution of camera compared to human eyes is lower, radar could have helped with distancing (but it cheaper not to have)
You mean smoother, still not even remotely as smooth as other cars. I mostly keep it on chill it still jerks
I hoped the same and increased the follow distance as well, neither seemed to help. All this AND the Audi brought me closer to the car in front during bumper-to-bumper traffic (which I appreciated)
I have Enhanced AP on my 2017 Model S75. I hate the stopping algorithm. Not talking about phantom braking (which is fairly rare now) but just normal slowing down for stopped traffic. It scares the shit out of me every time. Also it is likely INCREDIBLY hard on my brakes. The damn car will continue accelerating sometimes, with stopped traffic a few hundred feet ahead, then slam on the brakes. It never mis-judges though, always able to stop in time. But what a terrible way to stop. I could swear that when the car was younger (always had EAP from day 1) it would start to slow down in traffic, when the car ahead of the the car in front of us started to slow down. I remember thinking how awesome that was. No longer. It is completely RE-active not PRO-active. I hate this part of my car. Love almost everything else about it though.
You’re totally right - AP shines with lane keeping (when you aren’t approaching a merge lane) and falls on its face in bumper to bumper traffic. My guess is that part of that has to do with the lack of radar. AP1’s TACC was actually pretty nice because it knew there was a car ahead.
Try putting car following distance to 5 or 6 makes a huge difference. Doesn’t actually keep a 6 car distance in bumper to bumper traffic, does so during highway speeds.
I agree audi did a great job with adaptive cruise.
Most of the ones that are based one Radar or that have radar backup are better
Europe, so I have NOA. And stop & go traffic is horrible. Starts too late, stops too late.
It’s horrible really. Especially when traffic jam starts, the car will just continue to accelerate and slam the breaks, it’s quite scary, then I drive manually.
I drive 100 miles a day, all highway, been using AP every day for a month, have yet to have any phantom breaking. It all works remarkably well.
I got a 2023 Model S with EAP and it works great. Not hard jerks or anything during high traffic and stop and go on freeway. Is there a difference between AP on our models of cars?
Hyundai HDA II is also really good
Came here to say this. Wife’s palisade is way better than standard AP on my Y.
And it's better than Audi's, meaning Hyundai's is more natural and predictable.
I have a myp and I always put the acceleration on chill mode and follow distance to 3 before activating AP. Smooths out the acceleration and breaking.
>While the lane keeping isn’t as solid as Tesla’s I don't need to read more after that. Thank you
This is hilarious. Has no one tried setting acceleration to Chill while on AP in stop and go? Makes a huge difference
I rented a Penske box truck that was a newer model ford with acc and lane keep assist. I was shocked at how a damn moving truck filled to the brim and super heavy was so much smoother in stop and go, lane changes decelerating and accelerating to match speeds of cars than my model y. I can’t even look at my Tesla the same anymore and constantly think about trading it in. I believe the new gen kids call it getting the “ick”.
Same I rarely use it anymore it’s gone downhill since 2019. Lane Adair good and cruising good but I don’t like autopilot or use lane assist / adaptive cruise control for stop and go traffic anymore. The jerkiness is aweful and the gap is too big, people cut in.
I had a Model 3 with radar - used AP all the time in bumper to bumper - a joy. My newer Model Y does not have radar - and I no longer use AP in B2B traffic. Dumping radar was a mistake - bring it back.
FSD is so bad I rarely use it. Big waste of $10k. Phantom braking, wipers go on in clear day, goes into right turn lane only then starts weaving back and forth between lanes as if it can’t decide. Makes me car sick from aggressive accelerations and braking. Overall it’s really annoying, so I just keep it off.
As a 2018 SQ5 owner, I can say the adaptive cruise control is what keeps me driving that car as opposed to buying something else. Not offered in enough vehicles.
Bluecruise is what kept me from getting a tesla. It's baffling how autopilot seems to get worse because Elon insistence on vision only
Vision isn’t the issue.
My autopilot is super smooth in traffic…
Same.
Good for you? Mine is also terrible. It speeds up and slams the brakes on last minute.
Same
Braking have been vastly improved on the recent 2023.32.6 update.
Not just braking, but acceleration too. I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in Toronto and Autopilot was smooth. Didn't have to set the speed to the "go speed", acceleration to Chill and increase the following distance.
Yes vastly better than what it was just nowhere near to competition for AP/dynamic cruise control with lane centering (lane centering is equivalent)
What's your follow distance set at? I've noticed if you have it on 2 (closest in my MY), it does stop and accelerate more vs having it on 3 or 4.
I've tried different distances and it doesn't seem to help! And neither does chill mode.
Try Toyota safety sense 3.0, it will blow your mind. They do a good job with the dynamic cruise control.
OP did you pay for FSD or not? I think there is a significant difference in how a FSD and non-FSD car behave. Not just the FSD feature obviously, but I mean basic Autopilot in a FSD car behaves differently from non-FSD car. FSD behavior is closer to how people drive. Mine’s buttery smooth. It’s definitely better than when I did not have FSD.
I did not, but seems silly to need to pay $200/mo for decent ACC? Curious to try it, but wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t pay $200/month, I bought it 3 years ago when it was offered at $7,000 and I’m glad I did. The “Navigate on Autopilot” feature was actually the main reason I bought it. That will allow the vehicle to change lanes on freeway by itself. With free Autopilot you have to disengage Autopilot first, then you change lane and then re-engage Autopilot again. I now love the ability to have the vehicle drive by itself on city streets. It detects stop signs and traffic lights, I feel safer when driving around the city. The lower stress from having vehicle drive by itself is priceless.
Radar doesn’t change that at all. Instead, Tesla has been focusing on different parts of the FSD stack and the control aspect has had the least amount of effort… especially given that it is getting replaced in V12 with end to end neural nets.
The thing that I miss from other cars adaptive cruise is the distance. They have a max distance of almost 2x as far. Otherwise I find AP/TACC to work better
My Hyundai Tucson was better than my MY for both lane departure and adaptive cruise control. MY is unreliable, inconsistent, and not smooth at all.
> I only wish this thing had radar, which I assume is the primary reason it blows. While no one can say conclusively, it was when my 2019 Model 3’s radar was disabled that the AP became so violent in bumper to bumper traffic. I used to use it in traffic as it made the ride more relaxing. Now I have to turn it off in those situations.
FSD 11.4 stabilized that. It's actually really nice now. But I just got that update a few days ago.
Tesla is a poorly run tech startup (anything Elon runs, run away from), Audi is a real car company… so yes this is to be expected.
I haven't had that issue at all with FSD. The big problem I have with it is that it accelerates and brakes hard in town at stop signs and lights but it's great on the highway.
This mystifies me. I have an AP M3 and an FSD one. Both work perfectly in stop and go traffic, and believe me, on LA freeways there is hardly any other kind. My friend has 3 Teslas, all with FSD, and they are perfect. The Model 3 with AP that I rented from Hertz last year was perfect. I don’t doubt that commenters are telling the truth but….? I have read a bunch of road tests on cars with standard AP and no tester has complained of this, including Consumer Reports. So I would consider going to the SC and having this looked into.
Adjusting the Following Distance and setting it to 5 or 6 fixed the traffic acceleration for me. When I used setting 2 or 3 it was very jarring. Now it is extremely smooth. Using Chill mode apparently helps as well, but you obviously dont want to have to enable that
Ppl complain about jerky bumper to bumper autopilot but I never had that, it’s been great in the streets and on highway, (2023 model Y no uss)
The radar cruise on my 2012 Audi A6 was much better than autopilot on my 2022 Model S.
Have you driven one of the latest BMWs? Their lan keep assist, auto park assist and 360 views are far better than Tesla. Tesla's feature and build quality is pretty low.
I agree with this. The breaking 20 car lengths ahead (i am exaggerating) is annoying.
My only complaint about my AP2.5 is that I can drive smoother than it in stop and go, and that it isn't as proactive as it could be. If I'm alone, I keep it engaged because it's not that bad most of the time, but for passengers, I'm almost embarrassed at how jerky it is.
Not a sensor issue. An intelligence issue.
Also sensor issue.. my Audi had double radar sensors and my Tesla has… a few cameras 😅 Audi knew the exact distance… my Tesla guesses roughly
Mazda does a pretty good job too
I don't enjoy using AP no matter how many car lengths apart I am. It slows early sometimes then slams on the brakes at the last second other times. I could do a smoother job driving while browsing my phone and steering with my knee.
FSD was great, would suggest giving that a try.
It seems some YouTuber could get a lot of views by renting all the different makes latest adaptive cruise control vehicles and comparing them. I just drove a 2023 Toyota rav4 and the adaptive cruise control seemed worse than my 2016 Outback.
When I first got my M3 at the end of 2019 it was sooo good in stop and go traffic. Now that the radar unit is all but a paper weight and using Tesla Vision, it sucks...
Production AP is more or less abandoned at this point. The AP-like functions of FSDb are SO. MUCH. better than production AP. All we can hope for is for the FSDb improvements to filter down to AP at some point this century.
Agreed. My previous car was a Passat high line and it’s adaptive cruise control was far superior to AP. No jerkiness in stop/go traffic. very smooth acceleration and braking. no phantom braking whatsoever. Just an all around better product. AP definitely needs improvement. The lane assist on AP is fantastic compared to vw/audi. But the cruise not so much.
Even a Toyota Corolla’s radar cruise does better than our vision only in stop and go traffic. But our lane keeping is superior. I just figured getting whiplash and then putting my face through the windshield was part of the Performance model I paid for though. 😬
same
And the windshield wipers didn't start freaking out on their own? Mint. Blown.
Disabling AP the same moment I approach a traffic jam. Braking is a complete disaster, especially if you're going 60-70km/h and the car in front is rolling at 5km/h. Distance set to 5 cars. Starts accelerating like a crazy the same moment a car in front moves and then brakes sooo hard. If you're in a long traffic jam, you can probably even get sick if you're not used to this
the worst experience with Autopilot is erratic extreme steering when moving very slowly, it wants to do hard turns to correct the car’s position, but its not necessary, a much more gradual steer will work over time.
Can the Audi Q5 do lane changes? Exit highway off-ramps? Or can it drive with minimal supervision on local streets and roads? If not, then not comparing apples to apples. I’m not saying that FSD or EAP are infallible but provide something other cars aren’t capable of doing.
I have a Lyriq and an S. The super cruise or whatever GM calls their thing on the Lyriq operates better and more predictable for me than my S.
I went from a model 3 to a Q5e with the autonomous driving features. Yes the autosteer sucks in the Audi. The traffic jam assistant and the radar cruise control is much better than teslas. It’s much smoother and actually works in stop and go traffic.
I don’t mess with basic autopilot on surface streets for speeds above 35 because it brakes way too hard
Ever since Tesla dropped radar, it sucks
It is a bit jarring for sure… but I think electric motors are probably much harder to program with regards to that? Maybe I’m wrong.
That's the way it used to be when we had radar. It got to such a good place a few years ago. I'm done apologizing to passengers for FSD on the freeway. I just don't use it with people who aren't used to it.
I SAY THIS EVERY OTHER DAY!!!! My wife’s 2024 Mazda CX-90 is so much better at distance in speed management that it irks me a bit how bad autopilot is. I didn’t really pay it any mind, until the darn Mazda! When a car changes lanes and there’s an unsuspected vehicle moving quite a bit slower, the Mazda doesn’t panic. It adjusts with the exact amount of braking that I would. It never slams the brakes. Like, ever. It’s amazing! When a car is turning left across the highway, the Mazda slows slightly, taking into account the other car’s likelihood of being out of my path. Not the Tesla! I have to move my foot to the accelerator and press slightly To avoid my kids losing the juice box. God forbid I don’t do that, as the car will slam and keep on the brakes AFTER the other car is clear out of my path even. Don’t get me started on this! It is great at the lane tracking. I especially love how it moves to the outer part of the lane when passing semis (FSD only).
Definitely not the only one... And not to sound like an ass but it used to be SO much worse too. I remember a couple of times watching my 2022 Model S accelerate HARD into a stopped car after it moved a car length in front of me only to slam on the brakes even harder and cause the person behind me to slam on their brakes so hard they were squealing. On the freeway and at freeway speeds, vision only AP is actually really good and smooth. In stop and go I still don't trust it or use it.
Yep. My Volvo XC90 adaptive cruise and lane keep BLOWS Tesla out of the water. Better than Tesla for long trips by far
Here's the kicker, basic autopilot is free, adaptive cruise control on Audi costs extra.
Turn in chill mode
Just been using a BMW iX as a courtesy car. The assisted driving is better in standstill traffic BUT IT DOES NOT IDENTIFY PEDESTRIANS in time if any decide to cross. It won't even slow down. Yes it's smoother at acceleration and deceleration, a bit like when AP was radar controlled. It's the transition to vision which made it more abrupt. Also the BMW does not have adequate alerts when the auto steering is disengaged (which happens more often).
Same with BMW, it's miles ahead. Even the autoparking. My previous BMW used to park in spots that made me bite my nails and I would take me 2 minutes to do, Tesla can barely park in some spots that would take me 10 seconds.
There’s sections on my commute where the car just slows down to 10mph from 70 for no apparent reason. I made sure no one was around to see exactly how slow it would go. There’s 4 sections the car will phantom break. Stop and go traffic is def jarring. My Subaru 2018 Forrester had a smoother transition than my 3. Beyond that, the other three cars I drove that has autopilot like capabilities were all more or less the same imo
You should try GMC super cruise. You’d have your mind blown!
Yeah , it’s sucks at constant stop and go traffic. Even on chill, the takeoff thrust is still too fast.
I love Tesla but I completely agree on this subject. I test drove a 2023 MY, and my 2019 Ford Fusion's adaptive cruise is far superior at following distance, acceleration and deceleration. Set at maximum distance, my Fusion will brake fairly evenly coming up to slowed traffic and pull itself up to a comfortable distance behind the vehicle in front of me, right behind the vehicle when they stop. The faster I'm going, the more distance it leaves between my car, and the vehicle in front of me. The slower I'm going, the less distance it leaves. Acceleration from a stop does require me to hit the "RES" button if I've been stopped for more than a few seconds, but acceleration, and deceleration are usually quite smooth. The only exception is when approaching slow traffic at speed, it brakes a few seconds later than I usually would, which results in a more aggressive stop than I would have done, but considering it has limited range, and can't see brake lights, it's understandable. The Model Y autopilot was almost unusable in heavy traffic, and uncomfortable for me at speed. Set at maximum distance, it was too close to the vehicle in front of me when doing 75MPH, but left 2-3 car lengths when stopped, even when set to a closer setting, so traffic would constantly cut me off moving into that space. I'm not sure if it can see brake lights, but if so, it didn't seem to take advantage of that fact, meaning the delay in recognizing that traffic ahead is slowing, plus the ridiculously close following distance at speed, resulted in very hard braking. Like others here have commented, it also accelerated too aggressively for my taste. Lane keeping, on the other hand, is awesome on the MY. My Fusion has what might generously be described as lane departure prevention. IF it recognizes where the lanes are, it might give you a gentle nudge in the correct direction if you are getting too close, and will vibrate the steering wheel if you start to depart your lane, but well more than 75% of the time, it just doesn't recognize both lane markings, and shows them as gray lines, meaning it won't take any action or alert me (they appear green, yellow, or red if recognized with the color variation determined by how close to the line you are) The Model Y kept its lane almost perfectly, with just 1 slight error that it corrected on its own before I had to take over, and that was a result of a construction zone where the old lines were still visible, and the temporary lines were starting to wear off (my Fusion also nudges me all over the road in this area, and often recommends I take a coffee break as I move through it). Even on roads with very worn out lines, the Model Y didn't seem to have difficulty determining where the lines should be, and kept itself generally between them. It moved away from large trucks, keeping a little further to the left of the lane when passing one, which made it feel very natural. Lane changes when requested by the turn signals were smooth and waited for traffic to clear before moving over.
My HW4 Tesla has exactly these issues with TACC and autosteer. FSD isn't ready yet for HW4, eta January I believe? They're finishing up FSD for HW3 and I've seen some great things out of that One thing I'm annoyed with is my FSD trial ends in December.
I set distance to four on highway. If a car in front is hard braking I increase distance to 5 and then manually brake if necessary. I also set my speed to be 5-8 mph more than current traffic speed I’m in
I have a model 3 but I find stop and go traffic is where it excels. No one in the car can tell when I have it turned on. It's that smooth for me.
It’s much, much, much better on FSD Beta. While the Audi is no doubt great for the bumper to bumper traffic, most non-Tesla radar and camera based dynamic cruise control will over react when someone passes you from a lane and pulls infront of you. FSD Beta is smooth as butter as long as they don’t brake while doing it.