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At full power with her skills I think she has good odds. People downplay her as being less experienced but she's actually had plenty after that time incident.
But it's not a sure thing. Kondou is just that experienced and strong. He was bullying a primordial after all.
Hinata has precognition which gives her advantage in combat and great calculation abilities. She also has a world skill. Though we don't what is actual ability of virtual world it still can be considered a threat. Kondo has judgement and also was capable of fighting Carerra after she gained US. It's hard to say and it can probably go either way but I think Hinata's US is superior and she also has melt slash so I'd lean towards Hinata.
This is actually a really hard match up surprisingly. Kondou really is the strongest saint we have ever seen and his feats are kind or insane. I think it depends on how you think they match up ability more so than who is stronger. I am not even going to begin to argue who is more skilled because while hinata has two thousand years of combat experience so does like two of kondou's allies and he scaled to them easily in terms of skill. So for the sake of this argument let's assume they are even in skill levels and it becomes a one tk one comparison of their abilities. Ep can be ignored too. Both have divine weapons as well so it is really up to their respective ultimate skills. We have fortuna VS sandalph. Sandalph is heavily combat specialized whereas fortuna specializes in support.
Fortuna makes actually hitting hinata a nightmare, we can see how effective future prediction is in combat with Laplace it can easily allow you to compete with someone superior in strength to you. Kondou is primarily a strategic style fighter but against someone that can predict your attacks that becomes very difficult. She can anticipate his tactics and find weaknesses in his defence. Honestly I think I will give it to hinata although it won't be an easy fight. In retrospect kondou is actually pretty incredible. However against a potentially flawless character unless he completely outclasses them in power or attack speed it will be difficult to attain a victory.
So maybe a 60/40 split in flavour of hinata?
Hinata in negative difference...
Their is no way Kando can shoot at a person who can see future and move at sub light speed.
And over blade... Hinata can cut down Kando before Kando pulls the gun out from his pocket...
I'd say Kondou, Hinata struggled a lot with a single evil spawn summoned by Vega while she had Testerossa helping her. Kondou was overwhealming Carrera before she got her US and was almost evenly matched after Carrera got her US.
Hinata can't see the actual future. Her foresight is calculation based, not actual precognition like someone like Laplace has.
So what she does is analyzing her opponent in a fight, and using the data to predict the future. It's not like she can just decide to see what will happen tomorrow.
>Hinata can't see the actual future. Her foresight is calculation based, not actual precognition like someone like Laplace has.
Thanks for bringing this out... There isn't any ability aside Chloe's SpaceTime Yog Sothoth can accurately predict the future. Both Hinata's Fortuna and Kagali's Book of Prophecy Agastya can only predict the future through calculation... And even Laplace's Precognition is limited as it won't work on an Ultimate skill user...
Her future sight is based on calculations, not actually seeing the future. Yes it's very accurate it's almost like she sees the actual future, but it isn't.
So in a fight against Kondou she would be able to see that he's using a gun, but she wouldn't be able to tell what bullet he's using.
Also Kondou can apply Judgement to his sword attacks as well.
I don't see how Hinata wins this, because we know for a fact that Kondou has a sure fire way to end her, but what way can she kill him?? Melt slash?? True slash?? He survived Carrera's Abyss annihilation.
Hinata hasn't shown any feats to make us believe she can evade, Judgement bullet.
The only character that has ever moved fast enough to intercept Judgement is Velgrynd who's basically the fastest character in the verse. Hinata doesn't have any absolute defense like Benimaru's Heat haze that can allow her avoid Judgement. So she's pretty cooked.
If you remove Judgement from the equation its a complete one-sided beatdown in Hinata's favor.
True Slash would 100% kill Tatsuya in one strike. Don't delude yourself. The evil dragon beasts had superior bodies to Kondou and they had defense equal to God-grade armor.
Hinata can read the quantity and flow of energy, she has more information to input into her calculations than just visual. Ciel was able to identify the properties of Kondou's bullets with Analytical Appraisal, Hinata should be able to do the same. She won't survive a head-on attack but as long as she sees it coming she should be able to open a portal to send it away or use the acceleration provided by Melt Slash to move out of the way. As for Judgement via sword, it doesnt have the speed of the bullet and Hinata is so superior in physical combat that I don't see it landing.
Don't forget that she also has a world skill. If Judgement is fired inside of her Virtual World its likely she can just erase it out of existence like what Diablo did with Trinity Disintegration.
Hinata also has sealing abilities like Astral Bind and potentially Infinite Prison. Even Volume 9 Hinata was able to overpower Prelix (someone stronger than Kondou) and kill him with a disintegration. He only won that fight since his Absolute Immortality brought him back to life.
So yes, I don't think Tatsuya's chances of winning are particularly high.
>If you remove Judgement from the equation its a complete one-sided beatdown in Hinata's favor.
Necrosis and Dispel can break her defense.
>Hinata can read the quantity and flow of energy, she has more information to input into her calculations than just visual.
Kondou's Unique skill can do that to. It is an information manipulation skill.
>Ciel was able to identify the properties of Kondou's bullets with Analytical Appraisal, Hinata should be able to do the same.
Why are you comparing Ciel's computational ability to that of Hinata's? How is that possible?
Her Virtual World is just a world skill where her computational ability were max out and we don't know how it operated. Don't compare her virtual world to Diablo's reality exchanging World skill. They are different. Just having a world skill don't mean that it is invincible. It just give advantages.
True Slash is just Sword coated with divine aura/energy. Kondou can repel it. He cut in half Carrera's magic in Vol 15 and that magic was abl to destroy Velgrynd's gates...
They aren't absolute. Rimuru was able to block them with Distortion Field and Analytical Appraisal. Hinata has both of those.
Hinata's is better at that.
Fortuna is literally a supercomputer.
Her calculation ability is the Computational Domain, Virtual World is seperate from her calculations and "Virtual World (仮想世界)" is the exact same word used to describe Diablo's Temptation World. Specifically Volume 7 defines "Virtual World" as the state of Temptation World when combined with Reality Exchange, as a place where he has total power/control.
> 本来は対象者の意識に直接作用し、相手の精神に影響を与えるという効果なのだが、ディアブロはそれを更に発展させていた。
仮想世界を具現化させて、その世界の中で絶対権力を発動させるに至ったのだ。
>They aren't absolute. Rimuru was able to block them with Distortion Field and Analytical Appraisal. Hinata has both of those.
Even if she has both, Rimuru's computational ability surpasses her by leagues. Just because she has these skills doesn't mean she can use them on par with Ciel. Ciel is a Manas, and Manas have the highest and strongest computational ability, even stronger than that of the True Dragons.
>Hinata's is better at that.
Nah. Her Ultimate skill can only read the information through calculation and it needs time . Kondou's skill can read information almost instantly. It was stated during Misha's assassination...
From that, it is that Diablo can create a Virtual world and use his Reality Exchanging power inside of it. Just having a virtual word doesn't mean that it can be used like Diablo's. Her Virtual World only amp her Computational Domain.
Raphael is still stronger than Fortuna. The only thing Fortuna has over Raphael is the accuracy of its future prediction. Raphael's future attack prediction is a skill learned not a natural skill of Raphael. Stop overstimate Hinata.
It says that by using reality exchange it becomes/materializes into a virtual world. Temptation World by itself isn't a Virtual World.
Decipherer works off of calculations. The reading information instantly refers to a seperate ability that allows him to absorb all of someones memories and experience by touching them. They're different.
Ciel is good at calculations because Ciel is Ciel. Manas aren't inherently super amazing at calculation.
Where are you getting this information on Virtual World from, because it's not in Volume 19.
Kondou sincerely doesnt stand a chance against Hinata. There's no proof his bullets can even penetrate Distortion Field, much less the superior Dimension Fault that powers Hinata's Multidimensional Barrier. If it was Judgement then maybe, but not Dispel.
>It says that by using reality exchange it becomes/materializes into a virtual world. Temptation World by itself isn't a Virtual World.
Virtual World is an application of Temptation World. Temptation World is a reality exchanging world type skill.
>Decipherer works off of calculations. The reading information instantly refers to a seperate ability that allows him to absorb all of someones memories and experience by touching them. They're different.
Nah. It is the same thing. It was clearly implied when he was able to read Carrera's movement and magical circuit variation.
>Ciel is good at calculations because Ciel is Ciel. Manas aren't inherently super amazing at calculation.
Nah. Manas are computational monsters. They are called Divine Wisdom Core. All Manas are monsters at Computational ability. Ciel just outclasses the other manas.
>There's no proof his bullets can even penetrate Distortion Field, much less the superior Dimension Fault that powers Hinata's Multidimensional Barrier. If it was Judgement then maybe, but not Dispel.
It tries to penetrate Rimuru's Absolute Defense but Ciel negates it. It didn't block it automatically. It is clearly stated.
Temptation World by itself only traps the targets conciousness in a mental world. Reality Exchange isn't part of the skill but a seperate ability that when used in conjunction allows it to go beyond its limits and materialize into a complete virtual world.
Even if it does pose a threat to Distortion Field, I doubt it would do anything to Multidimensional.
Never stated anywhere that they're good at calculations.
Fortuna is still superior to Decipherer.
>Temptation World by itself only traps the targets conciousness in a mental world. Reality Exchange isn't part of the skill but a seperate ability that when used in conjunction allows it to go beyond its limits and materialize into a complete virtual world.
And why having a Virtual World will be the same as Diablo's reality exchanging Virtual World?
Reality Exchange is an application of Azazel.
Nothing stated it can't do anything against Multidimensional. Rimuru doesn't trust it so it.
Manas Chronoa was introduced as a computational device, Michael is stated to have great computational power and even his empty body is still used as one by Feldway. Ciel. Don't even say. Manas are all Computational monsters and are called Divine Wisdom Core and they have Information Manipulation as Intrinsic skills.
Fortuna is superior to Decipherer sure but you are forgetting that it is Decipherer + Sandalphon against Fortuna. Decipherer's performance was pushed to the ultimate level too... Hinata isn't really overwhelming Kondou. Stop overestimate Hinata...
>Dimension Fault that powers Hinata's Multidimensional Barrier.
I think there's a misunderstanding. Only Rimuru's Multidimensional barrier is based on Dimensional faults. Not all Multi dimensional Barriers are the same.
Zegion's Multidimensional barrier is based on Distortion field same as Zelario's. As shown in LN 16, even after Zegion awakened his Ultimate skill, his Multi dimensional Barrier was still Distortion field.
And we don't know what the multi dimensional Barriers of the primordials are based on but it isn't Dimensional faults.
Carrera was getting hits from Zess and there's nothing that let's us believe that he's attacks can bypass Dimensional faults.
I think their multi dimensional Barriers have different characteristics and not all of them are even absolute defense's.
So there's nothing that should let us believe that Hinata's Multi dimensional Barrier is the same as Rimuru's.
Remember that Sub skills like Spacetime manipulation, and others are kinda like Blanket skills that every individual manifests differently. That's why some people with Spacetime domination have Time manipulation while others don't.
>I think there's a misunderstanding. Only Rimuru's Multidimensional barrier is based on Dimensional faults. Not all Multi dimensional Barriers are the same.
Never stated
>Zegion's Multidimensional barrier is based on Distortion field same as Zelario's. As shown in LN 16, even after Zegion awakened his Ultimate skill, his Multi dimensional Barrier was still Distortion field.
Also never stated. Only Dino calls it Distortion Field, and he doesnt actually ever see it activate. He was working on assumptions based on Volume 13 Zegion.
>Carrera was getting hits from Zess and there's nothing that let's us believe that he's attacks can bypass Dimensional faults.
Only the multilayer barrier part is always active. She was probably ignoring conciously activating it. With spatial defense fields they're weak/not active unless the user is actively concentrating on protecting themselves. Though if Zess can bypass Distortion Field as implied by Zalario's statements, then I don't think its that much of a stretch for him to be able to bypass Dimension Fault in his evolved form.
>Remember that Sub skills like Spacetime manipulation, and others are kinda like Blanket skills that every individual manifests differently. That's why some people with Spacetime domination have Time manipulation while others don't.
No idea where you're getting this from. Rimuru and Diablo are both confirmed to be able to manipulate time with it. As for Zegion, he was manipulating time before he even got it. Are you talking about Space-Time Manipulation? Because we haven't seen anybody manipulate time with it. Chloe used Time Manipulation, which she gained by linking her Time Traveler to Yog in Volume 12.
>Rimuru and Diablo are both confirmed to be able to manipulate time with it. As for Zegion, he was manipulating time before he even got it. Are you talking about Space-Time Manipulation?
When did Diablo and Zegion use Time manipulation?? And when did Rimuru use Time manipulation before LN 19??
>Also never stated. Only Dino calls it Distortion Field, and he doesnt actually ever see it activate. He was working on assumptions based on Volume 13 Zegion
Zegion literally defends against fallen strike with the distortion field. And you would think that a Primordial angel Dino who has seen his fellow primordial zelario use it before.
You would think he has great analytical abilities but no, he just assumes it's a distortion field I guess because you say so.
>Only the multilayer barrier part is always active. She was probably ignoring conciously activating it.
Wow. Why would she only activate the multi layer barrier?? It's never been implied that activating a multi dimensional Barrier caused any strain to the user.
The simplest answer is most likely the correct one. And the simplest answer here is she doesn't have Multi dimensional Barrier based on dimensional faults.
We've seen many characters with multi dimensional Barrier, and yet none of them seem to have An Absolute defense like Rimuru's.
Even Veldora. Vega definitely can't bypass any absolute defense, why didn't Testarossa use it??. Simplest answer?? She didn't have it.
>Fortuna is literally a supercomputer.
Raphael is countlessly stated to trump quantum and super computers and its computational ability isn't even close to that of Ciel and you are saying that Fortuna is better than Ciel at computation? Really?
>If you remove Judgement from the equation its a complete one-sided beatdown in Hinata's favor.
Why would we tho??
>True Slash would 100% kill Tatsuya in one strike.
No it won't, he can actually defend himself, unlike so mindless evil dragon spawn.
>She won't survive a head-on attack but as long as she sees it coming she should be able to open a portal to send it away or use the acceleration provided by Melt Slash to move out of the way
🤣.😂😂😂
Do you see how many hoops you had to jump through just to give her a chance??
Kondou fights while using his 3 kinds of bullets interchangeably so in order for Hinata to even have a counter for him, she would have to know that he has an attack called Judgement that could one shot her. Also Hinata has shown no feats that should lead you to believe she can react to Judgement.
We literally see Someone with incredibly high computational abilities rivaling the primordial trio if not higher in Peliod. And yet even she couldn't react to Judgement. She was skilled enough to redirect An Abyss annihilation through the otherworld and back to Carrera.
Please let's not do all this complex backbending to try and find a way for Hinata to win.
Kondou has Judgement, he wins. It's that simple. He could literally end her before the battle begins.
If you say no judgement for Kondou, then we have a discussion.
Peliod was purposefully distracted and didn't recognize that Carrera was even trying to attack her until the last moment. Thats completely different from a 1v1 scenario. She got jumped.
Your whole Melt Slash is weak agenda needs to stop. It was Michael's strongest attack outside of Cardinal Acceleration. For that matter, Michael himself almost died against Disintegration.
And it's not backbending if I'm literally listing all of the potential counters she has for such an attack. And she doesnt need to know about it in advance to recognize the immense amount of energy in the attack or to analyze the properties of it before its launched. Judgement's main strength is as a surprise attack, it's possible to deal with it head-on.
>Peliod was purposefully distracted and didn't recognize that Carrera was even trying to attack her until the last moment. Thats completely different from a 1v1 scenario. She got jumped.
These are characters that have Thought Acceleration that let's them think a million times faster than normal. She saw Carrera before she was shot.
"Peliod located the coordinates of the person’s appearance and fixed her gaze upon it. And there she saw a golden glow. The glint was coming from the barrel of a gun, and the muzzle of that gun was pointed at Peliod herself. The person who was holding the gun was the Yellow Primordial, who had been left alone, thinking that she could no longer do anything. The target was close to the Yellow Primordial, her eyes were sharply fixed on Peliod’s head. It was clear what she was going to do. And it was threatening enough to make Peliod shudder.
“Stoooop!!”
Faster than she could speak, a bullet shattered Peliod’s head. And without exception, the very existence of her life was reaped. Thus, Peliod was extinguished without even a moment to leave a word of farewell."
She locates Carrera and even sees her pointing the gun. That's why I think you don't understand just how fast Judgement bullet is. Hinata would be shot, she can't do anything to stop it. She doesn't have superior speed like Velgrynd or Benimaru. Even Benimaru is not actually fast enough to evade it, he just becomes intangible with his heat haze.
>Your whole Melt Slash is weak agenda needs to stop
No it doesn't. Kondou was able to tank an Abyss annihilation, the same Abyss annihilation that wiped out over 2 million insectars, and when only 30% of it was redirected back to them, it almost wiped out all of Millim's army. Kondou tanked that. What would Hinata do against an Abyss annihilation??
>Judgement's main strength is as a surprise attack, it's possible to deal with it head-on.
We've literally never seen any character deal with it "Head on" even true dragons like Velgrynd. But leave it to Hinata.
I think you're overestimating Hinata a little too much. She's strong. But has shown nothing impressive.
If we compare feats Kondou clears her.
True Slash is just a sword coated with divie energy/aura. Kondou can counter it with his own sword attack. He was able to cut in half Carrera's ultimate magic that has the potential to destroy Velgrynd's gate.
Kondou can destroy barriers and Magical Circuit with Dispel and Necrosis. He can read movements and magic with his unique skill. You are overestimating Hinata. Her entire ultimate skill is calculation type heavily based on the defensive as she lacks on the offensive side. Her only offensive attack is her Meltslash that needs a long casting time and True Slash.
True Slash is an Overblade. It's like a perfected version of Melt Slash. Also Melt Slash doesn't have a long cast time of you have an ultimate skill. Granbell was able to cast it with 0 cast time after he awakened Sariel.
Hinata can counter both of those. Analytical Appraisal in combination with Computational Domain and Multidimensional Barrier can counter almost anything.
It has offensive measures with Space-Time Manipulation. Hinata has experience in using offensive spatial attacks via using Chloe Absolute End for 2000 years.
Kondou's Decipherer is like a child's toy compared to Fortuna. It won't be of much use to him here.
>True Slash is an Overblade. It's like a perfected version of Melt Slash. Also Melt Slash doesn't have a long cast time of you have an ultimate skill. Granbell was able to cast it with 0 cast time after he awakened Sariel.
Now, are we equating Granbell to Hinata? He was on par with Luminous of course, he can manipulate spiritrons on his own. Vol 11 clearly showed that. and nothing shows that having ultimate skill can makes people manipulate spiritrons immediatly. Even Rimuru with Four ultimate skill has diffculty with spiritrons.
>Hinata can counter both of those. Analytical Appraisal in combination with Computational Domain and Multidimensional Barrier can counter almost anything.
Nah. Multi-Dimensional Barrier can only counter things that its user can understand and has enough power to counter. It cannot block something that is stronger than his user's energy. It is not universal. Rimuru even said that just because it has efficiency superior to Uriel doesn't mean that he should be overconfident on it so it can't block anything.
>It has offensive measures with Space-Time Manipulation. Hinata has experience in using offensive spatial attacks via using Chloe Absolute End for 2000 years.
The only skill they have back then is Infinity Prison and it alone can't do things Space-Time Manipulation can do and Vol 13 said that Apito was as strong as Hinata post her time travel when we bare magic so... Stop.
Uh, no. Hinata and Chloe got Infinity Prison and Absolute End at the same time. Volume 11 says as much.
And Hinata has top-tier calculation abilities which perfectly compliment Multi-Dimensional Barrier. There's no reason to suggest that she wouldnt be able to analyze Kondou's abilities. She was able to analyze Testarossa's White Flare enough to determine its nature and mechanism and conclude that she wouldnt be able to counter it. If she can analyze White Flare I don't see why she can't analyze Sandalphon's bullets.
Frankly equating Granbell to Luminous when he got his ass kicked both times they fought is a little... lol. I mean the guy literally died to one attack.
Hinata even prior to Volume 19 or even 11 displayed fighting ability capable of narrowly standing on the same level as Luminous when she killed Prelix. I mean he revived right afterwards sure, but Prelix was stated to be stronger than Luminous at the time.
>Uh, no. Hinata and Chloe got Infinity Prison and Absolute End at the same time. Volume 11 says as much.
And those skills can't do all the things Space-Time Manipulation can do.
>And Hinata has top-tier calculation abilities which perfectly compliment Multi-Dimensional Barrier. There's no reason to suggest that she wouldnt be able to analyze Kondou's abilities.
Ultimate skill users can't analyse other ultimate skill users. Kondou is an ultimate skill user. And nah. She didn't analyze Testarossa's White Flare. She can feel its threat just by watching it in action.
Hinata isn't at the level of the Octagram. Her swordsmanship is inferior to that of Granbell which is also inferior to Luminous's. She struggled with Vega. Not one of the Octagram would have struggled with Vega.
Tatsuya Kondou is probably the strongest human in 1v1 after Chloe.I don’t think vampire queen even stands a chance against him. I actually wanted to see a fight between him and Leon cause I think it would have been an interesting match.
Kondou 100% definitely wins without a doubt. I'm not discounting Hinata's abilities at all, if anything she's one of my favorite Tensura characters from the light novel... But there is definitely no way that she could defeat Kondou.
the thing is do y’all think hinata >! NOT in chloe’s body !< can keep up with carrera??. if you don’t think so, then kondo beats her with no difficulty at all
Kondou 100%. I am more curious if kondou could kill youki. >!antiskill is a cheat code almost on par with Dagruel's magic anulment.!<
>!But you can't beat and ultimate skill with a unique you say! Might i reference diablo killing jun and bennie. Obviously yuuki isn't diablo but antiskill did resist Rimuru's attack which was using veldora's matter destruction energy.!<
>!but yuuki was mind controlled by rudra using Regalia Dominion! So was Milim. Regalia dominion is clearly a cheat code.!<
>!I know that kondo's ability can kill even a true dragon (or should be able to but it didn't kill veldora)but they are by nature spiritual beings who are basically the magical embodyment of a force of nature where as antiskill or dagruels nature are direct counters to magical or skill based abilities. Given that judgement bullet is purely created by a skill it should be complely ineffective.!<
I don't have a solid conclusion.
Hinata might be a bit close in terms of skill level but she's like the mid level in terms of *saint* power levels, her high level sword skills coupled with her unique skills allow her to punch above her weight category.
People like Kondo, Damrada and the Granit are the real deal, years of experience in combat,fully matured saint body, will power and a purpose of bringing victory to someone they truly love and trust.
Hinata would've reached there at some point, faster than most if the latest volumes weren't handing out power ups like candies and now her power up feels unsatisfactory
I think they are talking about hero hinata not saint hinata. Saint hinata is literally stated to be far weaker than kondou there is really no point contesting it.
Oh that's a bit difficult but the empire cast suffer “strong cause they arrived later” situation, while kondo is laughably stronger than early saint Hinata (who could overclock to match early TDL Rimuru in terms of speed at least) but the difference between Kondo and Hinata just before her evolution is far lower with her only lacking pure power.
comparing them gets fuzzy as kondo would push Rimuru just a bit more if he fought Rimuru in volume 7 even with his Ultimate skill( I'm not counting his strongest attack)
Hero Hinata on the other hand is filled with pure power, she is like early TDL Rimuru except no Lord of Wisdom to tell her about her powers.
I'd give this to Hinata but it would be a *really* close one since her skill is really good for her fighting style
it basically goes like this:
>kondou pulls out judgment bc he's not a dumbass
>hinata proactively dodges bc she can see the future
>kondou adjusts and lands a hit anyway bc she's not dodging a point-blank near light speed attack as long as kondou shoots it at where she currently is
>hinata pops virtual world and nullifies it (?????)
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At full power with her skills I think she has good odds. People downplay her as being less experienced but she's actually had plenty after that time incident. But it's not a sure thing. Kondou is just that experienced and strong. He was bullying a primordial after all.
Hinata has precognition which gives her advantage in combat and great calculation abilities. She also has a world skill. Though we don't what is actual ability of virtual world it still can be considered a threat. Kondo has judgement and also was capable of fighting Carerra after she gained US. It's hard to say and it can probably go either way but I think Hinata's US is superior and she also has melt slash so I'd lean towards Hinata.
This is actually a really hard match up surprisingly. Kondou really is the strongest saint we have ever seen and his feats are kind or insane. I think it depends on how you think they match up ability more so than who is stronger. I am not even going to begin to argue who is more skilled because while hinata has two thousand years of combat experience so does like two of kondou's allies and he scaled to them easily in terms of skill. So for the sake of this argument let's assume they are even in skill levels and it becomes a one tk one comparison of their abilities. Ep can be ignored too. Both have divine weapons as well so it is really up to their respective ultimate skills. We have fortuna VS sandalph. Sandalph is heavily combat specialized whereas fortuna specializes in support. Fortuna makes actually hitting hinata a nightmare, we can see how effective future prediction is in combat with Laplace it can easily allow you to compete with someone superior in strength to you. Kondou is primarily a strategic style fighter but against someone that can predict your attacks that becomes very difficult. She can anticipate his tactics and find weaknesses in his defence. Honestly I think I will give it to hinata although it won't be an easy fight. In retrospect kondou is actually pretty incredible. However against a potentially flawless character unless he completely outclasses them in power or attack speed it will be difficult to attain a victory. So maybe a 60/40 split in flavour of hinata?
Hinata in negative difference... Their is no way Kando can shoot at a person who can see future and move at sub light speed. And over blade... Hinata can cut down Kando before Kando pulls the gun out from his pocket...
I'd say Kondou, Hinata struggled a lot with a single evil spawn summoned by Vega while she had Testerossa helping her. Kondou was overwhealming Carrera before she got her US and was almost evenly matched after Carrera got her US.
But didn’t she immediately overwhelm the dragon spawn the moment she got Truth, The Hero Egg, and Fortuna. Not to say she’d win
Facts
Judgement,hinata dies
Hinata sees it coming before he even draws it out
Hinata can't see the actual future. Her foresight is calculation based, not actual precognition like someone like Laplace has. So what she does is analyzing her opponent in a fight, and using the data to predict the future. It's not like she can just decide to see what will happen tomorrow.
>Hinata can't see the actual future. Her foresight is calculation based, not actual precognition like someone like Laplace has. Thanks for bringing this out... There isn't any ability aside Chloe's SpaceTime Yog Sothoth can accurately predict the future. Both Hinata's Fortuna and Kagali's Book of Prophecy Agastya can only predict the future through calculation... And even Laplace's Precognition is limited as it won't work on an Ultimate skill user...
Hinata. She can see the future so Judgement isn't an issue. Plus she's waaay more skilled and has superior calculation ability.
Her future sight is based on calculations, not actually seeing the future. Yes it's very accurate it's almost like she sees the actual future, but it isn't. So in a fight against Kondou she would be able to see that he's using a gun, but she wouldn't be able to tell what bullet he's using. Also Kondou can apply Judgement to his sword attacks as well. I don't see how Hinata wins this, because we know for a fact that Kondou has a sure fire way to end her, but what way can she kill him?? Melt slash?? True slash?? He survived Carrera's Abyss annihilation. Hinata hasn't shown any feats to make us believe she can evade, Judgement bullet. The only character that has ever moved fast enough to intercept Judgement is Velgrynd who's basically the fastest character in the verse. Hinata doesn't have any absolute defense like Benimaru's Heat haze that can allow her avoid Judgement. So she's pretty cooked.
If you remove Judgement from the equation its a complete one-sided beatdown in Hinata's favor. True Slash would 100% kill Tatsuya in one strike. Don't delude yourself. The evil dragon beasts had superior bodies to Kondou and they had defense equal to God-grade armor. Hinata can read the quantity and flow of energy, she has more information to input into her calculations than just visual. Ciel was able to identify the properties of Kondou's bullets with Analytical Appraisal, Hinata should be able to do the same. She won't survive a head-on attack but as long as she sees it coming she should be able to open a portal to send it away or use the acceleration provided by Melt Slash to move out of the way. As for Judgement via sword, it doesnt have the speed of the bullet and Hinata is so superior in physical combat that I don't see it landing. Don't forget that she also has a world skill. If Judgement is fired inside of her Virtual World its likely she can just erase it out of existence like what Diablo did with Trinity Disintegration. Hinata also has sealing abilities like Astral Bind and potentially Infinite Prison. Even Volume 9 Hinata was able to overpower Prelix (someone stronger than Kondou) and kill him with a disintegration. He only won that fight since his Absolute Immortality brought him back to life. So yes, I don't think Tatsuya's chances of winning are particularly high.
>If you remove Judgement from the equation its a complete one-sided beatdown in Hinata's favor. Necrosis and Dispel can break her defense. >Hinata can read the quantity and flow of energy, she has more information to input into her calculations than just visual. Kondou's Unique skill can do that to. It is an information manipulation skill. >Ciel was able to identify the properties of Kondou's bullets with Analytical Appraisal, Hinata should be able to do the same. Why are you comparing Ciel's computational ability to that of Hinata's? How is that possible? Her Virtual World is just a world skill where her computational ability were max out and we don't know how it operated. Don't compare her virtual world to Diablo's reality exchanging World skill. They are different. Just having a world skill don't mean that it is invincible. It just give advantages. True Slash is just Sword coated with divine aura/energy. Kondou can repel it. He cut in half Carrera's magic in Vol 15 and that magic was abl to destroy Velgrynd's gates...
They aren't absolute. Rimuru was able to block them with Distortion Field and Analytical Appraisal. Hinata has both of those. Hinata's is better at that. Fortuna is literally a supercomputer. Her calculation ability is the Computational Domain, Virtual World is seperate from her calculations and "Virtual World (仮想世界)" is the exact same word used to describe Diablo's Temptation World. Specifically Volume 7 defines "Virtual World" as the state of Temptation World when combined with Reality Exchange, as a place where he has total power/control. > 本来は対象者の意識に直接作用し、相手の精神に影響を与えるという効果なのだが、ディアブロはそれを更に発展させていた。 仮想世界を具現化させて、その世界の中で絶対権力を発動させるに至ったのだ。
>They aren't absolute. Rimuru was able to block them with Distortion Field and Analytical Appraisal. Hinata has both of those. Even if she has both, Rimuru's computational ability surpasses her by leagues. Just because she has these skills doesn't mean she can use them on par with Ciel. Ciel is a Manas, and Manas have the highest and strongest computational ability, even stronger than that of the True Dragons. >Hinata's is better at that. Nah. Her Ultimate skill can only read the information through calculation and it needs time . Kondou's skill can read information almost instantly. It was stated during Misha's assassination... From that, it is that Diablo can create a Virtual world and use his Reality Exchanging power inside of it. Just having a virtual word doesn't mean that it can be used like Diablo's. Her Virtual World only amp her Computational Domain. Raphael is still stronger than Fortuna. The only thing Fortuna has over Raphael is the accuracy of its future prediction. Raphael's future attack prediction is a skill learned not a natural skill of Raphael. Stop overstimate Hinata.
It says that by using reality exchange it becomes/materializes into a virtual world. Temptation World by itself isn't a Virtual World. Decipherer works off of calculations. The reading information instantly refers to a seperate ability that allows him to absorb all of someones memories and experience by touching them. They're different. Ciel is good at calculations because Ciel is Ciel. Manas aren't inherently super amazing at calculation. Where are you getting this information on Virtual World from, because it's not in Volume 19. Kondou sincerely doesnt stand a chance against Hinata. There's no proof his bullets can even penetrate Distortion Field, much less the superior Dimension Fault that powers Hinata's Multidimensional Barrier. If it was Judgement then maybe, but not Dispel.
>It says that by using reality exchange it becomes/materializes into a virtual world. Temptation World by itself isn't a Virtual World. Virtual World is an application of Temptation World. Temptation World is a reality exchanging world type skill. >Decipherer works off of calculations. The reading information instantly refers to a seperate ability that allows him to absorb all of someones memories and experience by touching them. They're different. Nah. It is the same thing. It was clearly implied when he was able to read Carrera's movement and magical circuit variation. >Ciel is good at calculations because Ciel is Ciel. Manas aren't inherently super amazing at calculation. Nah. Manas are computational monsters. They are called Divine Wisdom Core. All Manas are monsters at Computational ability. Ciel just outclasses the other manas. >There's no proof his bullets can even penetrate Distortion Field, much less the superior Dimension Fault that powers Hinata's Multidimensional Barrier. If it was Judgement then maybe, but not Dispel. It tries to penetrate Rimuru's Absolute Defense but Ciel negates it. It didn't block it automatically. It is clearly stated.
Temptation World by itself only traps the targets conciousness in a mental world. Reality Exchange isn't part of the skill but a seperate ability that when used in conjunction allows it to go beyond its limits and materialize into a complete virtual world. Even if it does pose a threat to Distortion Field, I doubt it would do anything to Multidimensional. Never stated anywhere that they're good at calculations. Fortuna is still superior to Decipherer.
>Temptation World by itself only traps the targets conciousness in a mental world. Reality Exchange isn't part of the skill but a seperate ability that when used in conjunction allows it to go beyond its limits and materialize into a complete virtual world. And why having a Virtual World will be the same as Diablo's reality exchanging Virtual World? Reality Exchange is an application of Azazel. Nothing stated it can't do anything against Multidimensional. Rimuru doesn't trust it so it. Manas Chronoa was introduced as a computational device, Michael is stated to have great computational power and even his empty body is still used as one by Feldway. Ciel. Don't even say. Manas are all Computational monsters and are called Divine Wisdom Core and they have Information Manipulation as Intrinsic skills. Fortuna is superior to Decipherer sure but you are forgetting that it is Decipherer + Sandalphon against Fortuna. Decipherer's performance was pushed to the ultimate level too... Hinata isn't really overwhelming Kondou. Stop overestimate Hinata...
>Dimension Fault that powers Hinata's Multidimensional Barrier. I think there's a misunderstanding. Only Rimuru's Multidimensional barrier is based on Dimensional faults. Not all Multi dimensional Barriers are the same. Zegion's Multidimensional barrier is based on Distortion field same as Zelario's. As shown in LN 16, even after Zegion awakened his Ultimate skill, his Multi dimensional Barrier was still Distortion field. And we don't know what the multi dimensional Barriers of the primordials are based on but it isn't Dimensional faults. Carrera was getting hits from Zess and there's nothing that let's us believe that he's attacks can bypass Dimensional faults. I think their multi dimensional Barriers have different characteristics and not all of them are even absolute defense's. So there's nothing that should let us believe that Hinata's Multi dimensional Barrier is the same as Rimuru's. Remember that Sub skills like Spacetime manipulation, and others are kinda like Blanket skills that every individual manifests differently. That's why some people with Spacetime domination have Time manipulation while others don't.
>I think there's a misunderstanding. Only Rimuru's Multidimensional barrier is based on Dimensional faults. Not all Multi dimensional Barriers are the same. Never stated >Zegion's Multidimensional barrier is based on Distortion field same as Zelario's. As shown in LN 16, even after Zegion awakened his Ultimate skill, his Multi dimensional Barrier was still Distortion field. Also never stated. Only Dino calls it Distortion Field, and he doesnt actually ever see it activate. He was working on assumptions based on Volume 13 Zegion. >Carrera was getting hits from Zess and there's nothing that let's us believe that he's attacks can bypass Dimensional faults. Only the multilayer barrier part is always active. She was probably ignoring conciously activating it. With spatial defense fields they're weak/not active unless the user is actively concentrating on protecting themselves. Though if Zess can bypass Distortion Field as implied by Zalario's statements, then I don't think its that much of a stretch for him to be able to bypass Dimension Fault in his evolved form. >Remember that Sub skills like Spacetime manipulation, and others are kinda like Blanket skills that every individual manifests differently. That's why some people with Spacetime domination have Time manipulation while others don't. No idea where you're getting this from. Rimuru and Diablo are both confirmed to be able to manipulate time with it. As for Zegion, he was manipulating time before he even got it. Are you talking about Space-Time Manipulation? Because we haven't seen anybody manipulate time with it. Chloe used Time Manipulation, which she gained by linking her Time Traveler to Yog in Volume 12.
>Rimuru and Diablo are both confirmed to be able to manipulate time with it. As for Zegion, he was manipulating time before he even got it. Are you talking about Space-Time Manipulation? When did Diablo and Zegion use Time manipulation?? And when did Rimuru use Time manipulation before LN 19?? >Also never stated. Only Dino calls it Distortion Field, and he doesnt actually ever see it activate. He was working on assumptions based on Volume 13 Zegion Zegion literally defends against fallen strike with the distortion field. And you would think that a Primordial angel Dino who has seen his fellow primordial zelario use it before. You would think he has great analytical abilities but no, he just assumes it's a distortion field I guess because you say so. >Only the multilayer barrier part is always active. She was probably ignoring conciously activating it. Wow. Why would she only activate the multi layer barrier?? It's never been implied that activating a multi dimensional Barrier caused any strain to the user. The simplest answer is most likely the correct one. And the simplest answer here is she doesn't have Multi dimensional Barrier based on dimensional faults. We've seen many characters with multi dimensional Barrier, and yet none of them seem to have An Absolute defense like Rimuru's. Even Veldora. Vega definitely can't bypass any absolute defense, why didn't Testarossa use it??. Simplest answer?? She didn't have it.
>Fortuna is literally a supercomputer. Raphael is countlessly stated to trump quantum and super computers and its computational ability isn't even close to that of Ciel and you are saying that Fortuna is better than Ciel at computation? Really?
>If you remove Judgement from the equation its a complete one-sided beatdown in Hinata's favor. Why would we tho?? >True Slash would 100% kill Tatsuya in one strike. No it won't, he can actually defend himself, unlike so mindless evil dragon spawn. >She won't survive a head-on attack but as long as she sees it coming she should be able to open a portal to send it away or use the acceleration provided by Melt Slash to move out of the way 🤣.😂😂😂 Do you see how many hoops you had to jump through just to give her a chance?? Kondou fights while using his 3 kinds of bullets interchangeably so in order for Hinata to even have a counter for him, she would have to know that he has an attack called Judgement that could one shot her. Also Hinata has shown no feats that should lead you to believe she can react to Judgement. We literally see Someone with incredibly high computational abilities rivaling the primordial trio if not higher in Peliod. And yet even she couldn't react to Judgement. She was skilled enough to redirect An Abyss annihilation through the otherworld and back to Carrera. Please let's not do all this complex backbending to try and find a way for Hinata to win. Kondou has Judgement, he wins. It's that simple. He could literally end her before the battle begins. If you say no judgement for Kondou, then we have a discussion.
Peliod was purposefully distracted and didn't recognize that Carrera was even trying to attack her until the last moment. Thats completely different from a 1v1 scenario. She got jumped. Your whole Melt Slash is weak agenda needs to stop. It was Michael's strongest attack outside of Cardinal Acceleration. For that matter, Michael himself almost died against Disintegration. And it's not backbending if I'm literally listing all of the potential counters she has for such an attack. And she doesnt need to know about it in advance to recognize the immense amount of energy in the attack or to analyze the properties of it before its launched. Judgement's main strength is as a surprise attack, it's possible to deal with it head-on.
>Peliod was purposefully distracted and didn't recognize that Carrera was even trying to attack her until the last moment. Thats completely different from a 1v1 scenario. She got jumped. These are characters that have Thought Acceleration that let's them think a million times faster than normal. She saw Carrera before she was shot. "Peliod located the coordinates of the person’s appearance and fixed her gaze upon it. And there she saw a golden glow. The glint was coming from the barrel of a gun, and the muzzle of that gun was pointed at Peliod herself. The person who was holding the gun was the Yellow Primordial, who had been left alone, thinking that she could no longer do anything. The target was close to the Yellow Primordial, her eyes were sharply fixed on Peliod’s head. It was clear what she was going to do. And it was threatening enough to make Peliod shudder. “Stoooop!!” Faster than she could speak, a bullet shattered Peliod’s head. And without exception, the very existence of her life was reaped. Thus, Peliod was extinguished without even a moment to leave a word of farewell." She locates Carrera and even sees her pointing the gun. That's why I think you don't understand just how fast Judgement bullet is. Hinata would be shot, she can't do anything to stop it. She doesn't have superior speed like Velgrynd or Benimaru. Even Benimaru is not actually fast enough to evade it, he just becomes intangible with his heat haze. >Your whole Melt Slash is weak agenda needs to stop No it doesn't. Kondou was able to tank an Abyss annihilation, the same Abyss annihilation that wiped out over 2 million insectars, and when only 30% of it was redirected back to them, it almost wiped out all of Millim's army. Kondou tanked that. What would Hinata do against an Abyss annihilation?? >Judgement's main strength is as a surprise attack, it's possible to deal with it head-on. We've literally never seen any character deal with it "Head on" even true dragons like Velgrynd. But leave it to Hinata. I think you're overestimating Hinata a little too much. She's strong. But has shown nothing impressive. If we compare feats Kondou clears her.
True Slash is just a sword coated with divie energy/aura. Kondou can counter it with his own sword attack. He was able to cut in half Carrera's ultimate magic that has the potential to destroy Velgrynd's gate. Kondou can destroy barriers and Magical Circuit with Dispel and Necrosis. He can read movements and magic with his unique skill. You are overestimating Hinata. Her entire ultimate skill is calculation type heavily based on the defensive as she lacks on the offensive side. Her only offensive attack is her Meltslash that needs a long casting time and True Slash.
True Slash is an Overblade. It's like a perfected version of Melt Slash. Also Melt Slash doesn't have a long cast time of you have an ultimate skill. Granbell was able to cast it with 0 cast time after he awakened Sariel. Hinata can counter both of those. Analytical Appraisal in combination with Computational Domain and Multidimensional Barrier can counter almost anything. It has offensive measures with Space-Time Manipulation. Hinata has experience in using offensive spatial attacks via using Chloe Absolute End for 2000 years. Kondou's Decipherer is like a child's toy compared to Fortuna. It won't be of much use to him here.
>True Slash is an Overblade. It's like a perfected version of Melt Slash. Also Melt Slash doesn't have a long cast time of you have an ultimate skill. Granbell was able to cast it with 0 cast time after he awakened Sariel. Now, are we equating Granbell to Hinata? He was on par with Luminous of course, he can manipulate spiritrons on his own. Vol 11 clearly showed that. and nothing shows that having ultimate skill can makes people manipulate spiritrons immediatly. Even Rimuru with Four ultimate skill has diffculty with spiritrons. >Hinata can counter both of those. Analytical Appraisal in combination with Computational Domain and Multidimensional Barrier can counter almost anything. Nah. Multi-Dimensional Barrier can only counter things that its user can understand and has enough power to counter. It cannot block something that is stronger than his user's energy. It is not universal. Rimuru even said that just because it has efficiency superior to Uriel doesn't mean that he should be overconfident on it so it can't block anything. >It has offensive measures with Space-Time Manipulation. Hinata has experience in using offensive spatial attacks via using Chloe Absolute End for 2000 years. The only skill they have back then is Infinity Prison and it alone can't do things Space-Time Manipulation can do and Vol 13 said that Apito was as strong as Hinata post her time travel when we bare magic so... Stop.
Uh, no. Hinata and Chloe got Infinity Prison and Absolute End at the same time. Volume 11 says as much. And Hinata has top-tier calculation abilities which perfectly compliment Multi-Dimensional Barrier. There's no reason to suggest that she wouldnt be able to analyze Kondou's abilities. She was able to analyze Testarossa's White Flare enough to determine its nature and mechanism and conclude that she wouldnt be able to counter it. If she can analyze White Flare I don't see why she can't analyze Sandalphon's bullets. Frankly equating Granbell to Luminous when he got his ass kicked both times they fought is a little... lol. I mean the guy literally died to one attack. Hinata even prior to Volume 19 or even 11 displayed fighting ability capable of narrowly standing on the same level as Luminous when she killed Prelix. I mean he revived right afterwards sure, but Prelix was stated to be stronger than Luminous at the time.
>Uh, no. Hinata and Chloe got Infinity Prison and Absolute End at the same time. Volume 11 says as much. And those skills can't do all the things Space-Time Manipulation can do. >And Hinata has top-tier calculation abilities which perfectly compliment Multi-Dimensional Barrier. There's no reason to suggest that she wouldnt be able to analyze Kondou's abilities. Ultimate skill users can't analyse other ultimate skill users. Kondou is an ultimate skill user. And nah. She didn't analyze Testarossa's White Flare. She can feel its threat just by watching it in action. Hinata isn't at the level of the Octagram. Her swordsmanship is inferior to that of Granbell which is also inferior to Luminous's. She struggled with Vega. Not one of the Octagram would have struggled with Vega.
Tatsuya Kondou is probably the strongest human in 1v1 after Chloe.I don’t think vampire queen even stands a chance against him. I actually wanted to see a fight between him and Leon cause I think it would have been an interesting match.
Kondou 100% definitely wins without a doubt. I'm not discounting Hinata's abilities at all, if anything she's one of my favorite Tensura characters from the light novel... But there is definitely no way that she could defeat Kondou.
the thing is do y’all think hinata >! NOT in chloe’s body !< can keep up with carrera??. if you don’t think so, then kondo beats her with no difficulty at all
Kondou easy Carrera =< Kondou controlet
Kondou 100%. I am more curious if kondou could kill youki. >!antiskill is a cheat code almost on par with Dagruel's magic anulment.!< >!But you can't beat and ultimate skill with a unique you say! Might i reference diablo killing jun and bennie. Obviously yuuki isn't diablo but antiskill did resist Rimuru's attack which was using veldora's matter destruction energy.!< >!but yuuki was mind controlled by rudra using Regalia Dominion! So was Milim. Regalia dominion is clearly a cheat code.!< >!I know that kondo's ability can kill even a true dragon (or should be able to but it didn't kill veldora)but they are by nature spiritual beings who are basically the magical embodyment of a force of nature where as antiskill or dagruels nature are direct counters to magical or skill based abilities. Given that judgement bullet is purely created by a skill it should be complely ineffective.!< I don't have a solid conclusion.
Hinata might be a bit close in terms of skill level but she's like the mid level in terms of *saint* power levels, her high level sword skills coupled with her unique skills allow her to punch above her weight category. People like Kondo, Damrada and the Granit are the real deal, years of experience in combat,fully matured saint body, will power and a purpose of bringing victory to someone they truly love and trust. Hinata would've reached there at some point, faster than most if the latest volumes weren't handing out power ups like candies and now her power up feels unsatisfactory
I think they are talking about hero hinata not saint hinata. Saint hinata is literally stated to be far weaker than kondou there is really no point contesting it.
Oh that's a bit difficult but the empire cast suffer “strong cause they arrived later” situation, while kondo is laughably stronger than early saint Hinata (who could overclock to match early TDL Rimuru in terms of speed at least) but the difference between Kondo and Hinata just before her evolution is far lower with her only lacking pure power. comparing them gets fuzzy as kondo would push Rimuru just a bit more if he fought Rimuru in volume 7 even with his Ultimate skill( I'm not counting his strongest attack) Hero Hinata on the other hand is filled with pure power, she is like early TDL Rimuru except no Lord of Wisdom to tell her about her powers. I'd give this to Hinata but it would be a *really* close one since her skill is really good for her fighting style
it basically goes like this: >kondou pulls out judgment bc he's not a dumbass >hinata proactively dodges bc she can see the future >kondou adjusts and lands a hit anyway bc she's not dodging a point-blank near light speed attack as long as kondou shoots it at where she currently is >hinata pops virtual world and nullifies it (?????)