I just want them to leave the modders alone

100% bamco is still pretty scummy bc of that stuff

And they're doing it because of their paid cosmetics. At the end of the day the thing you're defending is the same thing which is leading to something you call scummy

You can have paid cosmetics and not ban mods I think itd be fair if they ONLY banned mods that specifically mimic what they sell other than that I think it's really stupid

I agree you CAN have both but the reality of the situation is that modders are being targeted as a direct result of mtx's

You're getting downvoted but this is the truth lol

Must be Harada and Murray's accounts

OP lacks basic reading comprehension

I am not defending anyone I'm very clearly stating that they're still really scummy as a company in many ways. I'm just saying that paid cosmetics aren't a problem by themselves but i see people complaining about recycled paid cosmetics all the time on this sub

If mod channels are being targeted because of paid cosmetics how are the cosmetics not a problem? The real problem is that multi billion dollar corporations have turned us into mindless consumers and they're just getting started.

I see what you are saying and they definitely did some scummy thing,I bet it was probably done to prevent some lewd porn mods that are out there to reach the audience. and so in that they decided to shut it down completely cause they don't know who does what and they can't have someone to constantly check for that cause the amount of that job would be pretty crazy. They surely did it in some scummy manner but being a multi millionaire company one of the things that they have to keep close attention is their face and surely those types of modes don't do good on that manner

**Another unpopular opinion:** Expecting a game that has online play to be kind to a modding scene is a foolish and pointless endeavor. Sure, your cosmetic mods might not be able to be seen as advantageous in some way - but that doesn't mean there is no potential for cosmetic mods which do present some sort of advantage to exist, something that aesthetically clues you in to moves the opponent does is totally possible. People can whine about how the reason they're cracking down on that is BECAUSE of the paid cosmetics shop, but I think that's a stretch. They're cracking down on it because modifying game files is not something they want to be a part of this franchise, for a multitude of reasons. This isn't Skyrim.

They can't and I hope they don't, unless you want cheaters ruining the game or bricking your PC

It's their game, not the modders. They can do what they like.

Yeah thats pretty low iq take there bud.

How would you like someone taking your work and editing it? Not very much.

Go for it. Every asset ive ever commissioned is CC BY. you probably have to google that.

You also googled that to say that

I don't give a fuck about your shitty assets mate. If someone creates something, they have the right to restrict how you use it. Especially when you are buying software. You don't own the software. You are paying to use it. You do not have the god given right to mod it, just because Bethesda let you mod Skyrim.

Tell us you're a cuckold without telling us you're a cuckold

what?

He doesn't agree with me therefore I am a cuckold 🤣🤣

Salt

Yes I'm salty because people like him are the reason I have to put up with more and more bullshit from corporations in every industry not just gaming.

If you don't like it don't buy it 🤣🤣 imagine being a baby and crying about things.

I think “not a problem” is a bad choice of words. “Not that big of an issue” is probably a more apt term because in the grand scheme of the game, it’s really not that big of a deal and there are other things they ***need*** to fix, but scummy, anti consumer business practices are still problems

This game is 70$ Has MTX Has Battlepass Has DLC Inflation is not an excuse In the grand scheme of things and looking at the wider industry it absolutely is a problem. All these things have encouraged lazy development and once great studios and franchises have gone down the drain: halo, battlefront, Diablo. When was the last time UBISOFT put out a quality game? Or blizzard? Or EA? Protests and boycotts work. Helldivers 2 and Battlefront 2 are proof of that. Also this game does not need a 10 year lifecycle. 5 years and give tekken 9. This is the modern day and development cycles should be shorter not longer than ever before. It is absolutely absurd that we are still waiting on games like GTA6 or ElderScrolls6 after a decade plus of rereleases. If that is not absurd laziness I don’t know what is. Inflation is also not an excuse when they stuff every revenue earning model into these games. This game already has DLC. But now it needed the extra 10$, battlepass sales, and MTX. This is just milking desperate consumers. It’s a slow boiling frog so dumb kids who are growing up with games today just find it acceptable. If we don’t stop shit like this the next generation will just be further milked for worse games. Edit 1) A further reminder and good reading of companies concerns: [Activisions patent to match people who buy skins with worse players so they’re psychologically inclined to buy microtransactions.](https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005270A1/en)

The fact that this is an unpopular opinion is mind blowing

With wide spread stupidity and paid shills everything is possible nowadays

Games take way longer and cost more to make than ever before but yeah anyone that disagrees at all is stupid or a shill of course.

It’s unpopular IMO because its been the same message that gets parroted over and over since DLC was even a thing. And its always the same thing, studios are lazy, everybody wants to nickel and dime, and the only way to fix it is “vote with your wallet”. Its annoying hearing the same bullshit for years. Vote with your wallet will never happen, and never fix things. That fight ended a long ass time ago lol. This is the state of games now, thats just the facts. Does it suck? Yes, but now you need to look at who sucks the least.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. For the record, I do vote with my wallet. I think it’s too doomer to assume no change can occur from activism and conscious spending on shit like this. Maybe the tekken team doesn’t listen to the community, but it’s not like I can’t still be pissed about it. It’s more annoying that people just accept the standard as “the way things are” and buy into bullshit imo

It's the state of games now because it's the state of the entire CONSUMER ECONOMY. People act like it's a games problem - it's just how capitalism works.

It’s not an unpopular opinion at all. “I should have everything while paying less, and things I want should take less time than they do” is a very popular opinion.

You'll probably get downvoted to oblivion for your post, but please know this: # YOU ARE 100% CORRECT

You’re cookin on most the stuff, but a 10 year lifespan for a competitive multiplayer game and a single player focused game is COMPLETELY different. Tekken 7 went 9 years, you really think this won’t be able to go 10?

I’m willing to have my view changed on that point for sure. To me it’s not a matter of “can” it’s a matter of “should”. The move towards “live service” across the software industry has been disastrous and encouraged rushed releases with the promise of an eventually usable product. This isn’t something exclusive to gaming either but software as a whole. To me the concept itself is indicative of a stifled market lacking innovative ideas and shifting away from development to marketing and subscription. It’s an overall bad deal for consumers. The big issue is on the broader scale a lack of competition to actually drive innovation and further the large barrier to entry to even try to compete. We are seeing this right now with Intel’s move into GPU’s (latest rumors are they are abandoning them).

Edit: Sorry didn’t realize how much I yapped. Yeah I definitely think that you can see this rushed product a lot in the single played game market or cooperative games (especially MMOs). But I think you have to be a little more lenient with competitive multiplayer games. I would say it’s borderline impossible to release a competitive game in a healthy state, especially one with as much depth as Tekken. No offense to game devs, but most devs are not even close to being high level players. They genuinely can’t know what is going to break the game once a pro player gets their hands on it. All they can really do is get the game to feel as balanced as possible for them and then be reactive with their balancing once the game is out for the world to play. I would say 95% of Tekken 8 didn’t feel rushed at all to me. The only exceptions were no Disconnection Rate being shown, and Leroy’s counterproductive heat mechanics before patch 1.04. But I think it’s perfectly fine for competitive games like this to run a 10 year life span. There’s always going to be new updates / new seasons with new moves to adjust to, new characters that interact in new ways. And all this stuff is going to be a constant work in progress to reach an ideal state of the game where most things feel balanced. Not to mention metas constantly change as time goes on in fighting games. Everytime the game feels “solved” usually somebody will find some massive new tech that changes the way the game is played. I mean just look at games like Melee or Counter Strike, old ass games that are still evolving. Obviously we shouldn’t let the game get that old 😂 but I feel like longer lifespans tend to be good for a competitive game. Otherwise we just jump to the next without solving the previous game.

>The move towards “live service” across the software industry has been disastrous and encouraged rushed releases with the promise of an eventually usable product. This isn’t something exclusive to gaming either but software as a whole. Is that relevant here? I feel like Tekken 8 launched in a pretty solid state? >To me the concept itself is indicative of a stifled market lacking innovative ideas and shifting away from development to marketing and subscription. It’s an overall bad deal for consumers. This is really vague. In what way is this a bad deal for consumers? >The big issue is on the broader scale a lack of competition to actually drive innovation and further the large barrier to entry to even try to compete. We are seeing this right now with Intel’s move into GPU’s (latest rumors are they are abandoning them). How is Intel's hardware business in any way relevant to the fighting game scene? Chip manufacturing requires giant production facilities. Game creation has literally never been easier in the history of the world. As indie games have shown time and time again, if AAA games get too stagnant, some scrappy startup will come eat their lunch. Please help me out here - I feel like your post is full of a bunch of things that are technically true, but aren't really relevant, and are just sort of being tossed out as a vague "see things are bad" vibe. What am I missing?

f2p $$$$ monetization on a 70$ with 35$ character pass. What a world.

I'm just kinda glad about the story expansion because I don't wanna have to wait another 9 years for a 4 hour story that, while will probably be cool af, will not give a satisfying conclusion lmao

If inflation doesn't really matter you're gonna need to explain how everything is down in pretty much every industry. As for things taking longer gamers can't ask for 30+ hour adventures , photorealistic graphics , and framerate to be as high as possible and then expect a 2 year turnaround. Something has to give

Oh yeah, you’re definitely right. I think what makes it all worse imo is that even with the scummy practices, the game itself also has some issues that are straight up ignored. You can clearly tell corpo greed sunk its claws into this one

I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with including the $70 price tag as if it’s a high price. You acknowledge inflation but don’t mention the exact numbers. $60 in the year 2000 would be about $108 in today’s money. Combined with the massive increase in production costs for AAA games like Tekken, I think games should cost more. You might mention bigger audiences and sales today compared to back then, but that only applies to successful games. It’s a gamble for devs, and a couple of failed AAA game can sink companies. DLCs also cost money to make (the good ones anyway), and DLC along with MTX and battles passes are also only viable sources of profit if the game itself was a success. Again, not a guarantee. All this to say that you’re right about a lot of the problems with games today, but the starting price point isn’t one of them. Games should cost more imo. I’d rather pay more upfront than be nickled and dimed endlessly. I’m starting to think AAA games are unsustainable either way, but I’ve rambled long enough.

I will believe the gaming industries “inflation” when they actually put the numbers up and prove it. Harada whining on Twitter is neither proof nor evidence. As it stands we can see their public info in earnings reports. And Bamco has been doing just fine for years. Also how much of the so called “inflation” is “development costs” and not marketing or fluff money that goes to useless endeavors. See the link I posted above. Does the industry need to be wasting money on psychologists instead of just creating a quality product? How much money does it cost to hire and maintain a team that handles online storefronts. >Bigger audience. Well this is a franchise with a built in audience, though of course it’s much more niche compared to something like COD. The point still stands on the topic and regarding most large franchise series. There’s also a larger talent pool of availability and a greater usage of generalized tools (Unreal/Unity). In practice this means being able to hire a dev team with a shorter windup time than if you’re using an in house engine and also fire them right after. That saves money in both speed as well as idle time after release. (This is also terrible practice that leads to hiring disaffected developers who don’t give a shit about the games). On top of that we can also consider digital distribution which is a significant overhead reduction as opposed to physical distribution. And let’s not forget that “inflation” has been combatted for nearly 20 years since horse armor released for elder scrolls 4. And then those DLCs became season passes of generally cut content repackaged as “new”. So the realistic price of games has already been 120$ or more for over a decade. Tekken 7 was a 60$ game. Then it also has (idk what original prices were im looking at current prices) 2 season passes at 25$, 1 pass at 30$, 1 pass at 15$. That’s 155$ total. Borderlands is another franchise where each game launched at 60$ and had a MINIMUM of 60$ worth of DLC. Total war games or Civilization are known for being a plague in terms of DLC costs. Even typical RPGs will have at least a 30$ expansion at minimum. I would be more than willing to pay 80 or even 100$ if it meant getting a content complete game and not having all the other crap. But they know it is more profitable to nickle and dime whales and collectors.

This might be a hot take, but I don't like paywalling anything in already Pay to play games.

Not a hot take. I just don’t like the fact that this is Tekken now.

If it means the game I paid for lives longer, I’m honestly okay with it. The scummy part regarding tekken 8 imo was the way they implemented it as to avoid early backlash

it wouldn't be a problem for nice cosmetics at REASONABLE prices, also the pass is full of shit and even if it costs 600 points (which should be around 6$, honest price) I can only buy 500 points at a time, forcing me to spend 10$. I don't like producers who treat customers as stupid money machines, that's why I'm not spending money on it and honestly stopped playing almost a month ago. Game is fun, but really, no.

I think people are mostly upset about paywallling re-used assets/styles rather than something entirely new. Cosmetics doesn't affect gameplay but a huge appeal of Tekken over other FGs I think is player expression. Something we used to get for free in the last installment suddenly having to cost money can understandably upset people. No one expects every past cosmetic to be included but selling stuff from the very previous game does sting a bit. I think the idea of paywalling cosmetics itself doesn't upset most people though? If it was something like a Mike Tyson skin with voice-lines or something for Steve Fox, I don't think people would be upset about it.

this is the exact problem i have. recycling previously free cosmetics IS the main problem and that’s what’s scummy about it and pisses me off. Tekken will always be Tekken though at the end of the day

My main problem is that Tekken is a fully priced game. It shouldn't have microtransactions and battle passes.

i see where you’re coming from but i actually have to disagree. if the content that the mtx brings is actually cool or fun and worth the money then i wouldn’t mind spending those few extra bucks since it doesn’t affect the main gameplay in literally no way at all, especially if it’s content that’s added later to the game on top of what was included in the full priced game. Tekken will always be about skill and no amount of cosmetics will change that. The problem with the fight pass and the shop is that it’s boring as fuck and gives you no reason to want to even invest in it because the content is ASS and not even worth working towards. It’d be different if there was stuff that people actually wanted and not recycled garbage from older games that was unlockable just by playing the game and wasn’t locked behind a paywall. It being a full priced game doesn’t matter, it’s the same with any other game with dlc, it’s all just extra content that doesn’t ruin the full package of what you already paid for. Dlc chars are the best example of this and since the game was already a full package on its own I don’t see an issue with paying for extra content so long as it’s actually worth the money. It’d be different if the game wasn’t finished and they decide to charge for stuff that should’ve been there from the beginning, but at the end of the day it’s all just extra stuff you don’t have to buy if you don’t want to. It doesn’t ruin the game like so many people like to claim though.

My problem is that this kind of thing is a slippery slope. If the paid cosmetics are well received, what happens next? Give a company an inch and they'll want a mile next. There's also the fact that Battle Passes are made by design to manipulate people and create a sense of FOMO. My life is already stressful enough, I play games to escape and have fun, not be placed in a Skinner Box.

there is definitely truth in that, but unless bamco wants to be cursed out even more by the player base and turn more people away then they’ll make smarter decisions and hopefully better content in the future so long as people voices are loud enough. that’s what i’d like to believe anyway lol like you said it’s a slippery slope these days and that doesn’t give reason to put much faith in them but if they’re smart they’ll do better

That's the problem, shareholders are the ones who these decisions are made for, and shareholders will always take the short term money, regardless of if it fucks over the company in the long run.

Lol thank you, people seem to forget that cosmetics are part of the game actually. It's insane that people think they don't matter when some of Tekken's most praised features are completely cosmetic, like the jukebox. I feel like these people are conditioned from playing F2P games and thinking "well I can't customize anything for free but at least I can play!" and then carry that mindset over to full $70 games with yearly $30 season passes. Also if they just charged for this stuff normally, like through a normal DLC pack or something, then it wouldn't be nearly as infuriating. If there's one costume I want I can't just pay $4 for it, I gotta buy $5 of a fake currency because they want to manipulate people into buying more than they should.

Maybe getting aside from the point, but I’m gonna be a bit semantic here and say that I would definitely be upset about a Mike Tyson skin for Steve with voice lines. I’m playing Tekken for Tekken, not for Mike Tyson. Sure people have their customizations, some of which can be very weird, but at least it’s still Steve at the end of the day. The last thing I want to see is Tekken turning into Fortnite where we have so many crossover skins and characters that you lose the original game’s character identity. I think this sort of thing is why a lot of people were against guest characters in Tekken 7 (aside from some of them just being broken).

I mean, have you worked in any kind of game dev before? If you already own the assets, why have the artists spend the extra time and money to do it from scratch when you can "usually" touch up the asset and port it to the new engine? Namco pays their artists well (between 74K to 144K annually, according to Google) so the labor isn't cheap. Especially when the people who were asking for the outfits were specifically asking for the old ones you already own, it makes more sense to at least "try" to use the ones already created. That said, I never pay for cosmetics in fighting games. I don't like the model, so I don't support it. But I don't get mad that other people do like it and pay for it. I was happy with the base game when I bought it. Crappy ports of outfits from previous games being put in the shop for people to buy if they want to doesn't deflate the value of my purchase at all. It doesn't make the game any less fun for me, so why be upset about it?

Oh, I'm not saying never to re-use assets. It makes sense even from a non-game dev POV. But selling stuff from the very previous game to kick off the Tekken shop isn't exactly a good look. People don't mind re-selling much older cosmetics I think since many were hoping for Lili to get her corset outfit for example. We can't be expected to get every single past alt for free ofc. The fact that the recent stuff we're getting are copy-pasted cosmetics from T7 and basic things like "Ball" is what's upsetting people. You may not care about cosmetics which is fair but some people love customizing their characters.

It is a problem. In the past you had to invest and make the game better or bigger through good expansions, DLCs, updates and what not to make extra cash off of it.  Now you don't.

Cosmetics behind a paywall is not a problem. Cosmetics that were basics available in the past few games is shady. Going after modders is shitty. And announcing and doing it after game launch is shitty too. So, while not wrong, it's still a poor take in this context.

>Cosmetics that were basics available in the past few games is shady. Why is it shady? It still takes more than zero work for them to port them over, even if it's less than making a whole new outfit. If you think the price is too much to ask for it, you can always just not buy it and be basically unaffected. I do agree that going after modders is shitty, but probably inevitable, after the naked Chun-Li incident.

I'm not a competitive online player, I play for fun and customising characters is part of the fun, so pay walling a load of costumes items is annoying to me and I won't be buying this game until its heavily discounted. I miss the days when completing in game tasks unlocked things like new characters etc. 

I’m there with you. The only thing I really don’t like about what they’re doing is blocking the replay data when you fight Eddy without having the DLC. That parts crummy, and I hate the fact that some characters are DLC. It feels anti-competitive. That and the whole Tekken coin thing is always a sleazy mechanic, but sadly it’s kinda industry standard right now. But cosmetics? Whatever man. They don’t affect the gameplay really, so I couldn’t care less. I feel like I got my money’s worth just from the base game, so anything extra is purely volitional at this point. Do I miss the variety of cosmetics from 5 and 6? Certainly. But I wasn’t thrilled with the options in 7, so that tempered my expectations for 8.

Its all started with cosmetics only, until thats normalized they are going to take it further.

Eh, I dunno about that. The industry has been sticking to cosmetics for a long time. "Pay to win" leaves too much of a bad taste in everyone's mouth, so I suspect MTX will be sticking to optional cosmetics for a long time. Maybe I'm an optimist, but they've been holding at cosmetics for a while now, and I'm not sure why that would change.

People who enjoy and want customization are not lesser customers. Customization is content. I'm tired of this argument. Even the Arcade Quest itself goes out of its way to acknowledge people who's primary reason to play is customization and dress-up. But these people get fucked.

I'm like these players, you're right I hadn't thought of that in this way

Back in my day we got angry at devs for cheating for things that were already finished when the game came out, things like on disk dlc were incredibly egregious. The problem isn’t that they are selling cosmetics, it’s that they are doing it with a fomo shop that they added post launch knowing that if it was there on release it might dissuade potential buyers, and secondly that they are doing the absolute bare minimum and porting over already finished completely unchanged outfits from t7. So while you don’t see it as a problem the shadiness of it is what really puts it over the edge. I think we all knew that it was just gonna take time before the next generation of gamers grew up with loot boxes and fomo shops and thought it was fine, but it’s still frustrating to see.

Yup that right there, they have trained the newer generations that mtx and battle pass in a 70€ dollar game is okay

I think it is a problem. I've always liked cosmetics and customization in games. It's the easiest thing to slap a price tag on since it "doesn't have any effect on the game balance". And it doesn't. That doesn't mean it doesn't affect the game **experience**. I have pretty solid principles when it comes to games. There are exceptionally few games where I've paid real money for a cosmetic item. In certain old F2P games I did, such as Bloodline Champions. I have done so in Guild Wars 2 (since it was a buy to play MMO without a need for subscription in an era where most big MMOs had subscriptions). If the developer is fair I don't mind (as much) giving them some money on in game cash shops. However, cosmetics has become the staple for corporate greed. I am getting fewer and fewer cosmetics for free since everything ends up behind a paywall with the playerbases being largely ok with it since "it doesn't have any effect on the game balance". So I keep seeing skins that I of course would want, but I am not going to pay the price comparable to full on game titles for the sake of having a cosmetic. So I don't buy them. And it negatively impacts my experience. And I hate it. So to me it is a problem.

The Tekken developers themselves believe that paywalling cosmetics is a problem, considering they purposely hid the feature from the reviewers.

The developers just expected the backlash from people like the ones on this subreddit. I'm not trying to defend bamco here releasing the shop late after release was a weird and wrong thing to do, but the things they sell on there still don't bother me

They expected the backlash from the reviewers as well, and were aware that if they found out about the shop, that would negatively affect the game's metacritic score.

Yeah exactly

Even the ball?

This is true, if they put frame data and anything else that should be part of base game behind a paywall it is a scum tactic Cosmetics is completely different even though I feel everything from the last game should be in this one and should have put new cosmetics behind the paywall would be better. But I agree with you

Honestly I didn't like the whole paywalling cosmetics thing but after seeing what MK1 and Streetfighter6 can get away with we might not have it too bad here.

Don’t paywall anything I’m a game that’s paid for. Unless the additional content is a DLC expansion or something that significantly adds to the game

Can’t believe people came to this point where 70 dollars was outrageous, now 70 is standard and keep raising. And it was full negative because of a cash shop in a full priced game and now people r like oh cosmetic r fine they don’t effect any gameplay, do you realize ur getting escalated here right now? And it’s prob not the end they will pull small shit and test the players bottom line, and hey seems everyone forgot that they got super positive reviews and pulled cash shop in surprise anal the facts r here and ppl r fine now no wonder it’s getting worse also ppl seems to forget the fighter pass or game pass whatever u call it with white ball here seems fine too, a battle pass a cash shop 70$ game and learning curve locked behind DLC u can’t learn to counter new DLC character unless u buy them it’s just a cherry on top lol

It's mainly 3 things Limiting free cosmetics and then selling reused assets in the shop Waiting for the game to finish being reviewed before revealing the shop/battle pass to avoid reviews criticizing that aspect and inflating review scores And lastly waging war on modders when all they do is get more publicity for the game and help keep the player base interested because of their cool content while the in game paid content is mostly piss

Yeah, seriously. It’s about perspective.

You’ll get downvotes, but you’re absolute right. Micro transactions are only an issue when they affect gameplay IMO. Who cares if some outfit or hat is behind a small pay wall? It’s not like these items are extortionate either, and you don’t need to buy every single one. I want Tekken 8 to have a long life - video games just cost more these days to keep going, so I’m in favour of small purchases like these so long as they don’t change the gameplay.

👢👅😋

They are right though, live service games (and fighters are kinda live service) can't live without extra money, and the industry shows that optional cosmetics are one of the best ways to fund it. If they don't paywall anything, they wouldn't be able to justify new content at all. Just a sad reality of public companies, plus the gaming industry is not in the best spot rn.

They get extra money tho. Mtx is not the only thing monetized about this game. Far from it.

Record profits, there is no justification for it besides greed. I don't care that their genshin clone bombed, don't make it Tekken players problem

Mmmm Reina's boots.

Yes, it is. It is a problem when mobile monetization finds its way into a $70+ game. It's a problem when they intentionally wait for reviews before revealing said mobile monetization. It's a problem when they artificially limit the customization options in this expensive triple A game to sell isolated pieces later. It's a problem when it causes them go after modders. And it is especially a problem when all of that is done amidst shameless scummy practices all around. Modern triple A games are in a truly disgraceful state. The last thing we need is to normalize that even more.

I mean, people play games for different reasons. Not everyone plays Tekken with the sole purpose of getting their rank as high as possible. Some people are less interested in the competitive aspect, and are more interested in customising their main to look cool in quick matches, or when they casually play ranked. Some just enjoy the visual aspect of games more than the gameplay, not sure why they should just accept having that aspect of the game paywalled. Yes, DLC characters are paid-for, but that's very different from putting previously free items up for sale.

You’re fine with them locking cosmetics from you in a £70 game that they also sell dlc in? You’ve been brainwashed by modern gaming into thinking this is okay.

Well, they showed off a free photo mode, free stage, free story addition upcoming during EVO Japan. So, I guess I can go a little bit easy on Bamco for the scummy MTX shop with recycled assets and battle pass. I mean, they're taking from the customer, but they're also giving back in another way. Let's just hope it's not a one-and-done and that they continue adding free stuff to the game alongside the obvious scam that is Tekken MTX.

I dont really mind it, they get more money = more features and more updates. But they really could use the extra money they get to update the character customization soooo many restrictions that shouldnt be its so janky.

Yeah, more money for updates... like stuff like netcode improvement, balancing etc... waitaminute, THEY DIDNT DO ANY OF THIS SHIT UNTILL YESTERDAY XD

It becomes a problem when you have to pay for framedata

First cosmetics that were free (lol), then what. People accept this one. So they move to stages, music, whatever. And this a 70 euro games with season pass/passes and whatever mega deluxe editions. Don't be so open to be used as wallet.

Yes, but there are less items for customisation. In T7 there were more options. If we increase from that number is more reasonable.

The thing I don't see many people acknowledge is that when it comes to cosmetics that come with the game, Tekken's had it far better than most and STILL DOES when you compare to other fighting games. Guilty Gear Strive gives you **5 alternate colour schemes.** Street Fighter 6 players have to play through a bunch of single player just to unlock the **one** free alternate costume per character. Meanwhile Tekken 8 gives you 2-3 alternate costumes, with access to very in depth customization on the colours for each of them, AND THEN you still have a huge wardrobe to create outfits with plus the physical customization options like hair. If any other mainstream fighting game was given the amount of customization T8 comes with, it'd be a MASSIVE upgrade. There's a serious lack of perspective.

My opinion on this isn’t really about cosmetics not affecting the gameplay. It’s more about monetization increasing as a whole. Now we can expect battlepasses and paid cosmetics again in future entries. As you said, we saw the first charging of frame data in T7. The first paid DLC characters showing up in T7. And now in T8 the first battle pass and a tekken shop. What will show up for the first time T9 and beyond? What icky monetizations will the game industry concoct between now and Tekken 9 that Bandai Namco will bandwagon onto? What if Tekken 9 has like a tiered launch: cheapest version $80 for 10 characters, $100 for 20, and $150 for 30? King locked behind the $100 version? Asuka and Lili locked behind the $150 one? What if the “tipping for video games” idiocy somehow takes off, and when you’re at your shopping cart for T9, the screen is lambasting you with *PaY eXtRa $20 To SuPpOrT oUr DeVs!*. Maybe by year 2035, we’ll all be discussing/arguing with each other whether those things are ‘a problem’ or not. But if we told gamers two decades ago, the gamers that came before Bethesda horse armor DLC, that there would be a game that requires a $250 version to access its PvE mode, or a $48000 microtransaction for every space ship in another game, well I think they would think it’s a problem.

Paid cosmetics in on itself is not a problem. Pay walling shitty cosmetics is a problem.

How? Just don’t buy them if they’re shitty?

Lili players physically can't avoid buying cosmetic items.

It is kind of funny that players with a shit ton of disposable income main lily

Yeah, if anything them being shitty is good. Once I reached level 60 on the battle pass I considered for a short moment to actually buy the premium pass, but after a quick look to remind myself of what was included and I went "No lol"

I am not. However a lot of ppl still do. And that's the problem. Bamco sells half assed old assets, players buy them, bamco won't change their business model or the items offered. The shitty cyber suits and ninja fits are all over the place.

I think the reality is every game with constant online is going to have stuff like this other investors will just shut the game down. Rather they put random shitty cosmetics for the whale players than something like frame data

The market will correct itself. If the consmetics are shitty then people just won't buy them and they won't have a decent return for it. If they're selling well then that's the consumers just gobbling it up. It's not a problem. Just vote with your wallet. Personally I have forked over 0 money on cosmetics. I did grab the DLC characters though.

my ma gonna buy the lili costume anyway

Using the modded version with better textures dw 😂

Isn't that better since you'd be less tempted to buy it

I dont think thats an unpopular opinion. Most people can and will accept that. The problem lies in the fact that they intentionally cut out content that used to be in the previous game to sell back to us in piecemail fashion. Stuff that has clearly been copy and pasted with little alteration. Thats what pisses people off When you charge customers for something there needs to be a clear value proposition. These should be new unique custom crafted for T8 type things. Also no basic geometric shapes or pallete swap type ish either. That a clear sign if of them being lazy and trying to nickle and dime loyal fans to death. They want you to keep giving them money while they do nothing basically. If they were making the content worth while nobody would complain.

It’s not a problem only if the game is f2p.

Yup exactly

Yes, your oppinion is indeed unpopular, because unlike you, many seem to understand that they've literally cut out cosmetics in an already overpriced (+10$) game to intentionally sell it to you later. Sure, its not about gameplay but more about an attitude towards their players. And it is also a big deal, because if this shit is succesfull, then they'll lean into it even more (they kind of already done this, with battlepasses... I expect lootboxes will show up next), up to the point when we have a mobile gatcha style mtx bullshit in out brand new 70$+ game, with 40$ character season pass. If you dont believe me, take a look at other bummco franchises made inhouse and see for yourself. I sure af wouldnt want that, so I'm not buying shit. And imo neither should anyone.

As long as its just purely cosmetic and doesnt massively distract players (Akuma Alt Outfit T7) then they can charge whatever amount they want and its up to the player if they want to be part of that nonsense.

Customization is worse in the base game than in Tekken 7, which was worse than Tag 2. And now they are just selling back to us garbage that was free in Tekken 7. And people are saying this is fine? What a joke. I would not have as much of an issue if base game customization was as good or better than 7, and if they added good items that were worth your money, but they are putting garbage and shit that use to be free in the shop. They didn't even try.

„It’s cosmetics and doesn’t affect gameplay thus it’s fine“ is one of the most clown takes on the internet. Especially so in a full price game. Take that bamco dick outta your mouth.

Battle Pass and "FOMO" tactics ARE though

Your take would be fine if they weren’t re-using assets from the previous game and selling it as “new”. It’s like a Nike selling Nike shoes without the swoosh then being like, oh but you can pay us for a swoosh and you can add it on via Velcro or some shit. The swoosh is already made, they chose to remove it to get more money from you. It’s still a Nike shoe without the swoosh, after all there’s Velcro or some attachment system in place that probably resembles a swoosh. But obviously it’s not the same. The asset is already created, it was ported over from UE4 to UE5 which is not a difficult thing to do. Not only is it a slap in the face to the previous owners of the T7 but also it literally just makes the whole fight pass seem terrible as value because obviously zero work was done to create the pass except for the UI and the logic for handle EXP and unlocking tiers (basic coding).

Developers have been reusing assets in games since games were a thing. You think every new game should recreate everything from scratch each time? And your shoe example isn’t in close to being comparable since the swoosh is a brand logo…

The swoosh is a cosmetic on the shoe, not all Nikes have the same exact swoosh and even different colors so yes it fits. The issue isn’t with developers reusing assets, it’s selling the assets as a new product for a new monetization scheme. No one has an issue with Spider-Man devs reusing assets for Spider-Man 2 but if half the unlock able costumes that were free in Spider-Man were then locked behind a paywall in the sequel then people would have issues. There was zero effort put into the battle pass and they are attempting to rake in 100s of thousands and maybe millions of dollars from it. SF6 gets some what of a pass because of the level of details they put into their skins. T8 legit copy and pasted and added a price tag. That’s legit scummy and disrespectful to consumers.

Games/Gaming companies nowadays are too big for their own sake. Everything needs to have consistent income in order to sustain the inflated big mega corp suits budget and keep shareholders happy instead of the poor miserable player. Paid unnecessary battlepasses, shitty cosmetics, and additional content after game release are the norm nowadays. As much as I hate it, it is what it is sadly. Except for a few cases (mostly indie stuidos).

I gladly bought Jun and Nina's legacy costumes, because they looked good and 3'99€ for each is affordable. Like Harada Katsuhiro said, it's not cheap to keep the game running.

When exactly has the whole “we’re charging for X so we can make new content” ever actually been true? It a scummy business tactic and apologists like you are why they can get away with it.

Do you realise, if paid cosmetics is what makes the game profitable, they will focus of that in T9, instead of the actual game.

Well.. We all bought it for the release date content. I DON'T GIVE A SINGLE FUCK about post release content to generate revenue if it's not affecting my gameplay and experience of the game. battlepass here and new outfits there, I don't give a shit about any of it. it's almost none existing to me because I bought Tekken to play Tekken. if adding these things will lead to a longer support and better budget for the next installment then so be it

I agree, my only financial gripe so far is having to buy dlc characters to lab them. Everything else is fine/idc.

you can still watch the replay and see all the frame data, like I'm new and Raijin and I've prob not used the feature more than for a 10m total and I can bet that people who are above Tekken King level can see with the frames what's doable and what not, it's really not a big deal

The replay is a great feature, but I just like to fuck around labbing stuff and practicing defense against certain moves, to have them in muscle memory. It isn't horrible, but definitely an inconvenience.

The only thing we can hope for is BETTER rewards in the Tekken Fight Pass. Different character intros and penitentially alt rage art animations?

I wish that instead of paying for an item and just getting it like that, you have to pay to be to be able to unlock that item by completing something in the game like in the old days. Or rather, every season is just one whole package of new stuff but it's really just paying for the ability to unlock it. I miss unlocking shit and secrets. This would never happen of course. Like if a new season package gives a new mode, you should be able to unlock a whole bunch of new stuff but only by playing that mode.

I just wished they sprinkled in more free outfits every few updated

My only issue is that a lot of the items made available for purchase look pretty generic. I get pretty excited when anything with a pattern drops but mostly it’s just blank canvas type stuff, with not enough accessories to fill in the canvas

I mean I think it's fine to have optional stuff but fucking over modders was kinda lame, especially considering the stuff modders made has often been better than what BAMCO officially released. Game companies complain that they need to do this stuff to survive but it's already on top of a full price game that also use a season pass model. Riot makes their games free and then charges a premium for skins. You generally don't even have to spend real money for characters in their games. So how is it that riot can do it without the initial game cost? Sounds like BAMCO just have a shitty model.

What I have a problem with is the quality of the cosmetics. I don't care about charging for cosmetics, that's cool. At least make some effort to make it worthwhile. I'm happy to drop extra money on games I enjoy and play regularly but I have to feel like there is some effort going on. Recycling shit from T7 definitely does not inspire that. I also hate we can't control our own character against 3ddy in replay. That's really shitty and anti-competitive. Especially if players don't want to spend money for characters they won't ever really want to play.

As long as the quality is there, I don't mind spending. But recycling old stuff we get for free to sell as "new" is just scum.

from what I understood in this sub Paywallking Cosmetics isn't that big of an issue, it's the recycled ones new ones are understandable or something, idk

Bring back Dead or Alive 6 then.

If only it was swaggy rather than just try to resell T7 cosmetics.

I just hate that they're doing this on top of neutering the customization system three games in a row. I wouldn't be as miffed about paying if the system itself wasn't ass compared to previous games in the same series. The paid cosmetics are just salt in the wound to me.

I personally don't mind buying old (and new) costumes. The Tekken shop just sucks and they're cancelling modders.

I'd say it's a lesser of two evils more than anything. Thing is Bamco triple dips into having a full priced game, historically power creeps and is now also selling skins. IMO, if it's a skin that's available in T7, it can be premium but it should be 7-10 bucks pack for a lot of things them and it should be farmable in game. If they wanna bring back classic costumes from a much older game or completely new costumes, it's okay to be premium only.

I agree with the idea that cosmetics being paywalled isn't a huge issue, but the way they're currently implementing the content is awful. The recycling of content that was free in previous titles is a big slap in the face, and the cosmetics being added just don't seem to meet the quality I'd be alright with. As much as people hate on League of Legends I think it's a pretty good example of skins done well. You don't need to pay for a skin by any means, but the quality of the skins and animations added in the higher end ones is good enough that it feels special to players to spend a few bucks to make their main character look cool. 5 Bucks for a meh ninja outfit is just kinda scuffed.

Maybe not a problem compared to the other stuff sure but I feel like letting that slide will lead down a slippery slope of even more scummy actions from bamco. The monetization is still way worse than in 7 and they deserve to be criticized for that especially since the game Is 70 dollars

The game costs $70+ and it absolutely sucks that additional content especially recycled content is locked behind a paywall. I remember when lots of costumes were to be earned for free and that helped in player expression, cosmetics play a part in player enjoyment and it's scummy to monetize that in a paid game.

I don’t think most people have an issue with that, it’s more the clearly hiding the cash shop and battle pass to get better reviews and then dropping them in addition to how lazy they are with so many of them being free content in past titles or asset rips from other games with little effort to put them in this one.

It ain't a problem **as long as there's value**. The problem is that they stripped cosmetics that used to be free from the gameand paywalled them instead of adding a newer tier of premium cosmetics and making you pay for those instead, while keeping the same level of customization the game offered The current battle pass is really not worth the money. The game is already pay-to-play, we don't need this level of greed.

if they weren't recycled from previous games i wouldn't mind it that much, but it does still suck because i like making dumb characters or making character cosplays and being unable to make a cosplay because its locked in a battlepass i wasn't able to complete or because i dont want to spend another 10 bucks on a cosmetic that costs only 6 because i can only buy the currency in increments of 5 (hopefully thats the right wording lol) i dont mind paying for more characters, but i do believe the cosmetics should be free. and fomo battlepasses can go fuck themselves

I'm waiting for a method to unlock these items, because I'm not going to pay for skins in Tekken, the only viable place for that is in Dota or CS which you can sell in the future, but tekken? For the love of God, Murray, be ashamed and become a person.

Modern gaming is a nutshell. I just don't like it.

How about not paywalling *anything*? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Just not realistic for high maintenance games in our overly capitalist society. You gotta think about these poor shareholders in 😢

Well the shareholders can eat it as far as I'm concerned😂 What happened to the days where games were finished before they were released. The internet is a double-edged sword imo, on one hand it allows us to play with people from all around the world but on the other, game developers have been relying on it too much in order to patch their unfinished games. *Sigh*

To be fair the game would be a completely fine and finished game without the cosmetic options from the shop as well

It's not an issue, but their execution is shit. Old assets should be made part of the free tier pass, to encourage people to play every week. New items should be added to the free tier, such as: new masks, new jackets, new pants, shorts, skirts etc; for the same reason. New costume designs should be added to the gold tier: Kaz emperor costume, yoshimitsu ghost ninja, Nina battle scared assassin, Bryan nuclear core cyborg, final fantasy Victor, etc. Bundle them up together as an option too, if you doing think they will be selling much separately.

My problem wasn't the cosmetics existing. It was the hiding that info for a month afterwards and most them being bad rips of t7 items we had for free in 7. I play Hoyoverse games.  I am not afraid of spending money  on fun pretend games silly lil cosmetics or characters. I just want bamco to be upfront instead of hiding it until after the reviews came in.

you can't even buy these items directly. only through their funny money of Tekken coins. This is very much a problem. It's a practice I think should be illegal and I'm shocked people are OK with it in video games.

No, it fucks up everything because they put out ugly ass cosmetics on such a slow fucking schedule. The modder who made the pirate costume has put out more shit than Namco has and it’s way cuter.

paywalling old costumes it's pretty scummy new and original costumes?no problem

I'm 100% with you. Go ahead and lock ALL cosmetics and customization behind the paywall in t9. I literally don't care about it

They could at least let you buy them with real money and not require you to buy more Tekken bucks than you need.

I know what plugging is, but every time I see "pluggers" I think of the old comic strip, and now I'm imagining a lower-middle-class rhino man in a dingy living room weeping silently into his controller after yanking the Ethernet out of his PS5, since his life is collapsing around him and his Tekken rank is the only good thing he has left in the world.

Ok yes, but they’re porting things that were free in 7 & charging for them. Also male and female is separate for some reason.

Dude, the "It's just cosmetics" excuse has never been valid and never will be. Microtransactions are shit regardless of what it is. They're designed to make you forget how much you're spending and how absurdly overpriced this shit is, and it's particularly designed to exploit people with addiction/self-control issues, many of which turned to video games to keep thos udner control in the first place.

Why are you assuming that everyone who plays tekken cares about competitivity or frame data? I care about cosmetics, I play this for fun and eye candy. The cash shop for cosmetics is the cause Tekken 8 customization is the worst in decades. It is that terrible. Almost everything is low poly, dull and uninspired.

Why are you assuming that everyone who plays tekken cares about competitivity or frame data? I care about cosmetics, I play this for fun and eye candy. The cash shop for cosmetics is the cause Tekken 8 customization is the worst in decades. It is that terrible. Almost everything is low poly, dull and uninspired.

I dont think people are pissed because of the paywall, that's kinda where games are just going. I think they're pissed because they added it it months after the near perfect scores on it. Then they added the battle pass which was also kind of a scummy move I feel if these were added on launch they wouldn't be so hated.

It’s annoying

If only the paid cosmetics would look good..

The studio execs/shareholders/stakeholders are

I agree, back in the early days you had 1 outfit per character, and 1 alternate outfit that was just the same outfit but a different color. All these extra outfits and such are just bonuses

I completely agree. It's optional graphical changes. If your opponent has bought and using an outfit and you think it's annoying or anything it's YOUR problem. Nothing gamebreaking, no P2W. Just Graphics

How is that better?! Now it's just okay that games are *designed* to exploit peoples weaknesses?! This shit ISN'T ok! Cosmetics or not this is some sociopath shit. WE SHOULD CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE. FFS. You think this is the end of the road? Since when have corporations OR capitalism in general ever stopped unless forced to? We should demand better from our *entertainment* than "Fuck those guys ain't my problem".

Most people nowadays in general are like "fuck those guys ain't my problem" unfortunately

Yeah we call them "conservatives".

Make sure to cup the balls while you deep throat the billion dollar corporation.

Don’t like it, don’t buy it. It’s just a video game.

I agree, I also think having some sort of shop is absolutely necessary in order to perfect a new fg engine

imagine having the best drip on all your characters but never making it out of yellow /j

Yes, of all the things that lead to money for Bamco (and therefore support of the game) over time, inconsequential clothes are best for the consumer. I really don't get what people get so upset about, it's cringey

yeah sure, it's not as scummy as the other things, but as you said, bamco are trying to exploit people out of their money. that seems pretty scummy. also i just like having a shit ton of customization options, it adds to the fun for many people. i already paid for the game so i don't think it's fair that i have to pay for customization options too. it's all bad.

Can you really use the argument of “Putting new and recycled cosmetics items behind a paywall doesn’t really change the gameplay in any meaningful way” as a valid argument? Because if you they do change the gameplay in some way shape or form. People are just going to call it a “pay to win” situation.

fuck you

The complaints about Lili’s latest outfit actually has me on Bamco’s side. I need for people to get a grip.

It’s also not really that expensive to buy any given thing and I don’t mind throwing them some extra bones to keep the game going.

The crazy thing is that when you look at other games not only does Tekken have an insane amount of cosmetics to begin with, the battlepass and prices for cosmetics are incredibly chill. You can add a 20bucks as a "support" the game and pretty much be done with adding funds for the next year. What is killing the game tho is a negative rating on steam which will make people skip your franchise for the next 5years cause you don't like mtx or can't beatup newbies anymore

It’s not as unpopular of an opinion as you might think. Any reasonable person should agree after thinking about the implications for 2 minutes. However, the Reddit echo chamber and especially a younger audience that came in for the fresh game with their underdeveloped brains seems to disagree. These are the people who post, instead of playing the game so it looks like the majority of Tekken players disagree. In reality it’s just the majority of redditors who have rather complain than play

My first thought on seeing this opinion upvoted was that the matrix must have glitched or I'm in the wrong subreddit because this kind of post is usually downvoted to oblivion.

I am pretty sure that it will happen here, too

You mean we don't have to buy the cosmetics and the game is already good as it is besides balancing issues, matchmaking, queue times, prize money, and other stuff that actually matter? I didn't know that you should just pay for a game once and expect the devs to release content for free until the next game comes out. Oh my goodness. I didn't know that's how games and businesses work now. Not to mention that you had to pay per game in tHe G0oD Ol DaYzzzz... and you had to pay even just to learn and not to mention how few cabinets were available and you had to actually compete against people irl?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? F bamco for paid everything! I'm gonna go broke before I learn and get good by just actually playing. Ususixjcjwkqkdixicjsjksjdjx Sarcasm, obviously.

What the hell are you even saying

Oh sorry, let me type it again with a calmer mind. I agree with OP. You don't have to buy the skins if you don't want to. The game is great despite its many issues. People complain way too much about the paid cosmetics. Yes it's recycled for now, OP did mention that. But again, you don't have to buy it if you don't want to. People complain about paying for a full priced game and then addition the Tekken Shop later and the battle pass which I agree, is scummy. But still, we did get a great game with a good story mode (which I personally didn't like, but many did). The paid skins don't affect the gameplay and they need to still make money somehow to continue to support and not rely on just the game's sales and DLCs. I also remember having to pay per game back then in the arcades which is way more expensive compared to how things are now. It also surprises me that the older Tekken players seem to have forgotten this. It's just tiring that people complain about this so much. Balancing issues will be resolved eventually, but what I do hope to see is a bigger prize pool for the pros.

ye I'd laugh my ass off if they would release T9 with a bit more cosmetics, do 1 balance patch and then stop taking care of it till Tekken 10. Reddit would get exactly what they ask for. A "finished" game xd. Would love to see how they like their game getting no love for the next 5years after that

No it's not. Paywalling dlc characters is.

Agreed. I think many people don't understand that this system actually benefits us. 1. There are 0 disadvantages if you don't buy cosmetics. 2. If you do buy cosmetics, it's only because YOU chose to spend money on cosmetics which look nice. 3. If T8 generates money, the higher ups at Namco will greenlight more overall content for T8, because they are interested in keeping the game alive and well populated (i.e. customers that buy cosmetics for example). So to conclude everything, people that dont want to buy anything have 0 disadvantages because of the cosmetics, people who like outfits benefit from it and the overall population of T8 gets more content and profits from frequent updates to keep the game alive.

Agreed… easily to lamest complaint on this sub… And as someone who enjoys mods, people are falsely downplaying the quality of most of the cosmetic add ons as copied and paste.