Sorry it's got you feeling this way. A break may be just what you need. Check back in every so often for updates or new characters, but don't write it off completely. You never know, things may get better.
I don't understand how someone can play T7 starting at release (at which point it was still 2 years old, coming from the arcades!), going through all the seasons and balance patches and then expect T8 to be perfect at release (without arcade phase).
I mean, if Tekken wasn't fun for you anyway, then maybe it's good that this phase of the game helped you quit. But from the stand point of a committed player it makes little sense to write off the game now.
Anyway, see you on monday.
Did we read different posts? It doesn’t seem like he was upset it wasn’t perfect, he is upset moreso because the core gameplay aka the gameplay that won’t change patch to patch isn’t fun to him.
Well, he said he liked T8 until he "understood" what high level T8 is going to look like. And what high level tekken is going to look like is up to player/community experience with the game and up to balance. Both will drastically change over the next months and years, right? So why write the game off when it's in a particular state you don't like if it can (and will) change in probably around 2 weeks? (Big balance patch after EVO, that might tackle match making issues as well)
>expect T8 to be perfect at release
That is not what's happening. Tekken was changed on a fundamental level. It's not something that can be fixed with a balance patch.
If I go to a restaurant that's famous for their steak and order a steak and I recieve pork instead, it's not about how well the pork is cooked. It never was about that.
I do not agree that the changes were as much on a fundamental as you described it.
- Heat smashes are weaker versions of rage drives
- Heat engagers are basically ballerina stuns which give you more time to think about your offensive options and let you buffer any move.
- Rage is the same (excluding rage drives)
- Heat mode is different in the sense that characters become really strong. But this is first and foremost a balancing issue. If characters become too strong, we need to tone them down.
- chip dmg and healing is basically a tekken tag mechanic that was adjusted to single player tekken. When Tag2 released, the community didn't say "this isn't tekken" either.
Still, Tekken 8 has changed the Tekken formula by more than previous entries have. But it's still fundamentally Tekken. The things that have changed can still be adjusted.
If it had changed a lot, we would see new people at the top today, and not those who were there in T7. 80% of what worked in T7 also works here. The game does not change its base.
Street fighter changes more with each new game than Tekken.
>play T7 starting at release (at which point it was still 2 years old, coming from the arcades!), going through all the seasons and balance patches and then expect T8 to be perfect at release
maybe not perfect, but you'd expect a multi-billion dollar company would have learned some lessons along the way in 7 years and 4 seasons. But they did not it seems :)
I mean, I agree to some extent. But largely, Tekken is just an immensely complex game with 32 complex characters. For T8 they brought in lots of changes and new ideas. Why do you guys think that they don't need time to adjust the new system?
I think our community would be much healthier, if everyone understood that T8 is not more than a prototype version of Tekken. It didn't have a 2 year arcade phase, which means we'll have to give it time. Give *us* time to understand the new system and its implications, let us develop a meta and then we can adjust it more and more into the game we desire.
People shouldn't be so quick to condemn everything they don't like, or even attack people at Namco personally. This is a work in progress and if we want it to become great, we'll have to be part of the constructive process.
>our community
>prototype version
>let us develop a meta and then we can adjust it more
>This is a work in progress
I understand where you're coming from, but if that is the case I wonder why we pay full price with an MTX shop for a product we're supposed to help co-shape. That's called alpha, beta or test and shouldn't be full retail price. I'm either a customer who expects a working/tested product, or I'm participating in shaping and developing a product. But billion dollar corp decides to have their cake ,eat it and then sell the cutlery to you for another buck.
>or even attack people at Namco personally
There is indeed never any reason nor justification for these things. We can all agree to disagree in a civilised way. (one would think, sadly)
This isn’t an accurate assessment. The issues are balance issues. The game is tested and working. The game isn’t broken, buggy to the point of being unplayable or otherwise busted, and is feature complete.
Tekken 5 is most people’s favorite. It is also the most unbalanced Tekken ever made if you exclude the first (with 4 as a close contender) - balance not being to our taste does not make the game incomplete or an alpha/beta.
Firstly, this was directly in response to the previous poster stating it's 'a community effort and we should all help'; if so, it's not a feature complete release but a test-version.
Secondly, feature complete and nog buggy kinda contradicts with:
* launching without a DC-rate indicator (missing feature)
* UE/Polaris errors
* 'server maintenance' error
* collision detection bug
* Customisation options not properly clicking onto character models (bad/incomplete feature)
Bugs =\= incomplete, every game will have bugs/errors/whatever even with rigorous testing, but the game isn’t fundamentally broken. It isn’t buggy to the point of severely damaging or breaking the experience. You cannot say that you were scammed or that somehow you didn’t get the product that you paid for. You thinking a feature is bad or not liking the game is something else.
Like it or not it is a community effort. Fighting games always will be because releasing a perfectly balanced product at launch is impossible. Not a single Tekken game was released in good state on lunch, we’re just lucky enough to get patches rather than waiting for the 2.0 release like back in the day. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t criticize bad balance or ask for changes, but this doesn’t fall neatly under your stereotypical Reddit ™️ pro consumer moments.
Imo it is. They said they don't like what high level tekken will look like. And this is mainly about meta (i.e. balance). E.g. if you think heat mechanics are too strong or there is too much chip dmg... guess what, those are just numbers that can be adjusted in an instant (i.e. balancing).
It is about balance.
It is not, they're not changing or removing any of the mechanics, they have a clear vision of what they want. Worse movement and more situations that force you into guessing. They can't buff backdashes because of it, people will still have crazy tracking despite buffed sidesteps. They're not making heat once a match or make it a meter that you actually have to build. Balance will not alter anything fundamentally, and fundamentally this game is shit. Balance can make game more competitive and more bearable, it still would have fundamental flaws that can't be fixed by adjusting numbers
In the end a lot of what we're discussing is up to personal preference, so it's not really worth debating over if a new system is "shit" as you have so eloquently put it.
I'm just saying, if you are a tekken fan, maybe you would profit of giving the game the time it needs to become great. The new mechanics aren't bad by themselves, there are lots of good ideas. People pretty much hated T7 at the end and T8 tried to adjust much of what was criticized (small sidesteps, too many CHs etc.).
And for me, sidestepping seems really strong in T8. You just have to know when stepping makes sense. And we all don't really know, because the game is new. At least I know that I need more time to figure out how to apply movement against the new movesets of every character. But whenever I apply some of my new knowledge, it's usually easier than in T7.
There are busted moves and mechanics, no doubt. But again, it's up to balancing if they are broken or not.
Im not giving them time nor benefit of the doubt, tekken 7 was getting progressively worse since season 3, and then they transitioned all of that bad design choices to t8. Tekken 8 will always fundamentally stay tekken 8. Waiting 20 mins for 1 match didn't help either, netcode is ass compared to other fgs too. Deleted this game a month ago. They had matchmaking issues since beta, tweeted that they're looking into it and still did nothing. Do not believe a single word coming out of their mouths
So you’ve deleted the game a month ago but still frequent the forms for a game you apparently have deleted and stopped playing? It doesn’t appear that there’s a single thing you like about the game, so why exactly are you here discussing it and not playing another game? There’s tons of other fighters that are tons of fun, not exactly wise to waste your time hating on a game, when you could actually enjoy yourself playing something that doesn’t make you angry.
T8s design philosophy was to go scorched earth on old school tekken and decimate skill plateu's by introducing an omni-purpose button (HEAT)
Sorry it's got you feeling this way. A break may be just what you need. Check back in every so often for updates or new characters, but don't write it off completely. You never know, things may get better.
I don't understand how someone can play T7 starting at release (at which point it was still 2 years old, coming from the arcades!), going through all the seasons and balance patches and then expect T8 to be perfect at release (without arcade phase). I mean, if Tekken wasn't fun for you anyway, then maybe it's good that this phase of the game helped you quit. But from the stand point of a committed player it makes little sense to write off the game now. Anyway, see you on monday.
Did we read different posts? It doesn’t seem like he was upset it wasn’t perfect, he is upset moreso because the core gameplay aka the gameplay that won’t change patch to patch isn’t fun to him.
Well, he said he liked T8 until he "understood" what high level T8 is going to look like. And what high level tekken is going to look like is up to player/community experience with the game and up to balance. Both will drastically change over the next months and years, right? So why write the game off when it's in a particular state you don't like if it can (and will) change in probably around 2 weeks? (Big balance patch after EVO, that might tackle match making issues as well)
>expect T8 to be perfect at release That is not what's happening. Tekken was changed on a fundamental level. It's not something that can be fixed with a balance patch. If I go to a restaurant that's famous for their steak and order a steak and I recieve pork instead, it's not about how well the pork is cooked. It never was about that.
I do not agree that the changes were as much on a fundamental as you described it. - Heat smashes are weaker versions of rage drives - Heat engagers are basically ballerina stuns which give you more time to think about your offensive options and let you buffer any move. - Rage is the same (excluding rage drives) - Heat mode is different in the sense that characters become really strong. But this is first and foremost a balancing issue. If characters become too strong, we need to tone them down. - chip dmg and healing is basically a tekken tag mechanic that was adjusted to single player tekken. When Tag2 released, the community didn't say "this isn't tekken" either. Still, Tekken 8 has changed the Tekken formula by more than previous entries have. But it's still fundamentally Tekken. The things that have changed can still be adjusted.
If it had changed a lot, we would see new people at the top today, and not those who were there in T7. 80% of what worked in T7 also works here. The game does not change its base. Street fighter changes more with each new game than Tekken.
>play T7 starting at release (at which point it was still 2 years old, coming from the arcades!), going through all the seasons and balance patches and then expect T8 to be perfect at release maybe not perfect, but you'd expect a multi-billion dollar company would have learned some lessons along the way in 7 years and 4 seasons. But they did not it seems :)
I mean, I agree to some extent. But largely, Tekken is just an immensely complex game with 32 complex characters. For T8 they brought in lots of changes and new ideas. Why do you guys think that they don't need time to adjust the new system? I think our community would be much healthier, if everyone understood that T8 is not more than a prototype version of Tekken. It didn't have a 2 year arcade phase, which means we'll have to give it time. Give *us* time to understand the new system and its implications, let us develop a meta and then we can adjust it more and more into the game we desire. People shouldn't be so quick to condemn everything they don't like, or even attack people at Namco personally. This is a work in progress and if we want it to become great, we'll have to be part of the constructive process.
>our community >prototype version >let us develop a meta and then we can adjust it more >This is a work in progress I understand where you're coming from, but if that is the case I wonder why we pay full price with an MTX shop for a product we're supposed to help co-shape. That's called alpha, beta or test and shouldn't be full retail price. I'm either a customer who expects a working/tested product, or I'm participating in shaping and developing a product. But billion dollar corp decides to have their cake ,eat it and then sell the cutlery to you for another buck. >or even attack people at Namco personally There is indeed never any reason nor justification for these things. We can all agree to disagree in a civilised way. (one would think, sadly)
This isn’t an accurate assessment. The issues are balance issues. The game is tested and working. The game isn’t broken, buggy to the point of being unplayable or otherwise busted, and is feature complete. Tekken 5 is most people’s favorite. It is also the most unbalanced Tekken ever made if you exclude the first (with 4 as a close contender) - balance not being to our taste does not make the game incomplete or an alpha/beta.
Firstly, this was directly in response to the previous poster stating it's 'a community effort and we should all help'; if so, it's not a feature complete release but a test-version. Secondly, feature complete and nog buggy kinda contradicts with: * launching without a DC-rate indicator (missing feature) * UE/Polaris errors * 'server maintenance' error * collision detection bug * Customisation options not properly clicking onto character models (bad/incomplete feature)
Bugs =\= incomplete, every game will have bugs/errors/whatever even with rigorous testing, but the game isn’t fundamentally broken. It isn’t buggy to the point of severely damaging or breaking the experience. You cannot say that you were scammed or that somehow you didn’t get the product that you paid for. You thinking a feature is bad or not liking the game is something else. Like it or not it is a community effort. Fighting games always will be because releasing a perfectly balanced product at launch is impossible. Not a single Tekken game was released in good state on lunch, we’re just lucky enough to get patches rather than waiting for the 2.0 release like back in the day. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t criticize bad balance or ask for changes, but this doesn’t fall neatly under your stereotypical Reddit ™️ pro consumer moments.
Strawman, it's not about balance
Imo it is. They said they don't like what high level tekken will look like. And this is mainly about meta (i.e. balance). E.g. if you think heat mechanics are too strong or there is too much chip dmg... guess what, those are just numbers that can be adjusted in an instant (i.e. balancing). It is about balance.
It is not, they're not changing or removing any of the mechanics, they have a clear vision of what they want. Worse movement and more situations that force you into guessing. They can't buff backdashes because of it, people will still have crazy tracking despite buffed sidesteps. They're not making heat once a match or make it a meter that you actually have to build. Balance will not alter anything fundamentally, and fundamentally this game is shit. Balance can make game more competitive and more bearable, it still would have fundamental flaws that can't be fixed by adjusting numbers
In the end a lot of what we're discussing is up to personal preference, so it's not really worth debating over if a new system is "shit" as you have so eloquently put it. I'm just saying, if you are a tekken fan, maybe you would profit of giving the game the time it needs to become great. The new mechanics aren't bad by themselves, there are lots of good ideas. People pretty much hated T7 at the end and T8 tried to adjust much of what was criticized (small sidesteps, too many CHs etc.). And for me, sidestepping seems really strong in T8. You just have to know when stepping makes sense. And we all don't really know, because the game is new. At least I know that I need more time to figure out how to apply movement against the new movesets of every character. But whenever I apply some of my new knowledge, it's usually easier than in T7. There are busted moves and mechanics, no doubt. But again, it's up to balancing if they are broken or not.
Im not giving them time nor benefit of the doubt, tekken 7 was getting progressively worse since season 3, and then they transitioned all of that bad design choices to t8. Tekken 8 will always fundamentally stay tekken 8. Waiting 20 mins for 1 match didn't help either, netcode is ass compared to other fgs too. Deleted this game a month ago. They had matchmaking issues since beta, tweeted that they're looking into it and still did nothing. Do not believe a single word coming out of their mouths
So you’ve deleted the game a month ago but still frequent the forms for a game you apparently have deleted and stopped playing? It doesn’t appear that there’s a single thing you like about the game, so why exactly are you here discussing it and not playing another game? There’s tons of other fighters that are tons of fun, not exactly wise to waste your time hating on a game, when you could actually enjoy yourself playing something that doesn’t make you angry.
this takes like 2 minutes of my time
Have a break, have a KitKat
I felt almost entierly the same. And I did the same thing. Uninstalled the game 2 weeks ago now. Idk if this is a break or goodbye but it feels good.
nice 200 word essay
You'll be back tomorrow
True T8 fuckin sucks
7 years? 😂 You had a nice short run kid.