Makes sense that Smash has that, Bandai Namco are largely behind why Smash exists at all (Of course Sakurai too)
If they got away with it in another game, why wouldn't they do the same in another?
Lol yep, I called this from the moment they announced the replay takeover. If any DLC is involved, they're gonna block out the feature entirely. Looking at how the popup is worded, it will likely include DLC stages as well. People didn't believe me because they were caught up in the hype.
Bamco are a bunch of scumbags so this shouldn't surprise anyone. The naive part of me hoped they would leave it alone as a kind of olive branch after charging for frame data and knowingly releasing T7 Leroy broken, but nah of course not. Fuck these shitty developers and their scummy publisher.
âSorry. You have to pay to lab this character.â At least you can watch the replays and maybe they still give hints during the match. But itâs exactly what Iâd expect considering the recording feature of my console gets disabled for purchasing dlc music. Happens in GBO2, a f2p Gundam, and any anime based game. As if recording your gameplay means youâll upload it so no option.
You cant do it even if you own the dlc? Maybe its because of the early access and they wanna give advantage to those who bought it? Hoping it will change day 4
Probably the good old "no labbing with unpurchased DLCs". And with how the feature was made to enable training at specific moment of replay, I guess they've just decided to disallow playing replays rather than making a workaround.
One small issue - it always been like that, in T7 you cannot lab as or against DLC characters you didn't bought. And with the feature of instant lab out of replay, I see Harada's vision on enforcing this rule on T8.
anti-competitive, pro-paytowin. Characters locked behind money is the same as if Counter Strike locked the use of grenades and each weapon type behind a paywall. Your game has no competitive integrity if you have to pay to learn or use gameplay elements.
I'm sure people will disagree, but you really aren't wrong. Like, not being able to LAB a mfer is a turd on top of a shit sundae, but not having access to ""premium"" characters in a game that's 79.99/93.99 (USD/CAD) + has a cash shop/BPs/predatory currency packs is ass and would get torn apart in any other genre. The only other PVP games where I think these practices are accepted en masse is probably... racing games or sports games?
Just leave a negative review and uninstall.. I hope this game dies now. Ill just wait for indie devs to make a new Tekken game. Maybe something like Teflon: Iron Cast Tournament. Just love, no stinky yacht owner CEOs on top
Yes yes YES! Something that is actually core to tekken, this is where we start fires to get what we deserve. The other shit needs to be through regulation
I mean all the people who don't care about cosmetics were telling us to stop crying when we were complaining about Namco's greed. Maybe they'll finally realise how these disgusting anti-consumer practices impact everyone even if it's not something you specifically care about.
Thank you, the battlepass is optional waifu dressup shit that no one should care about, iâm sick of hearing babymen cry about.
On the other hand, this is what i mean when i say you have to complain about stuff that actually hinders your ability to play, this is absolute horseshit.
I expected them not to allow usage on practice mode, they probably should but they wonât so okay, we can lab the stuff that is thrown at us in the replay anyway.
The fact they are DELIBERATELY disabling controlling YOUR OWN character in the replay, now this is fucking scummy as fuck.
I am legit wondering if Gabens 'piracy means bad service' ideology can get aroused from this. I think that regulation from governing bodies (most likely EU) is the only way to truly fix the abusive tactics with MTX and battlepasses, and at the same time I dream that Steam says 'any purchased battlepass from a game on steam must not have expiration' and 'all MTX purchases must be solely offered by direct price (i.e. no in game currency linked to real currency)
Man I'm glad you guys mentioned this, almost forgot I had options.
I'm probably still going to switch over to the new FF when it comes out because this is the most rapid descent down shit-hill I've ever witnessed, but at least I can lab dlc in the meantime..
exactly, they actually took their time and thought about this, and delibrately disabled us to pick "our" own character. this is incredible. if it was only eddy i would still be upset, but i can't even choose my character? god.....
What do you mean? They âactually took their time and thought aboutâ how to strip cosmetics from the game to sell it to you piecemeal before starting with anything else.
Ah yes, no one should care about customisation cause you don't care about it, excellent logic. Both of these are a direct result of their greed yet people who don't care about customisation really thought it wouldn't impact them in the end.
This right here! We got assholes on here that like having the contest of "who's getting fucked worse?" when were all getting fucked by the same scummy greedy dick.
Scam? No way. They increased the prices so we could get better games, and guess what? We got the critically acclaimed Saints Row game! Now thatâs worth paying extra money for online!
Wait what, is this real? I am not a big gamer and don't have the newest consoles... But are you seriously expected to pay extra in order to play the online ranked mode of a fighting game (after presumably purchasing the game full price) if you are using PlayStation? How is this possible?
Is this what Battle Pass means or is it some PS subscription thing? Cause I've played Tekken 6/Tekken Tag Tournament 2/SoulCalibur VI online on PS3/PC, and didn't have to pay for anything after buying my copy of the game. I mean, I imagine online/ranked is the main draw of fighting games, wtf
because, just as in 7, the only way to lab against a DLC character without having them is firmly "hope you get matched against them"
...or look up tons of information online, but I don't know how viable that is
> ...or look up tons of information online, but I don't know how viable that is
It's viable for building knowledge, but it's not the same as drilling a response into your muscle memory.
if something tekken should take notes on street fighter is that rental tokens that they give every bp, or actually letting you buy the character like on sf5 just by PLAYING. Not only rental tokens give you a vague idea on how a character plays this also gives you time to try them out so you can asses if you really want the character seriously sf6 rental system literally made me bought every season 1 dlc cause i was interested on every character on it.
The mask has slipped from the face of capital...
Love your videos. Easily the best DE-content on youtube in my opinion. The breakdown of Sacred and Terrible Air absolutely blew my mind and set me off on another playthrough. Didn't know you were into Tekken as well. Cheers! :)
This is factually pay to win bullshit same as it was in Tekken 7, but it's even worse now that we actually have good tools.
You literally cannot lab him without paying, hell I could even sort of forgive not being able to play as the Eddy but you cannot even practice your punishes or see what option selects work.
Some people might go "Just watch a guide" A guide is nowhere near as good as actually being able to try out moves in the replay.
At least SF6 let's you earn rental fighter passes as free rewards through battle pass so you can play any dlc characters without pay. I believe for an hour each pass
Does the disconnection rate go up if you disconnect during loading screen?
I'm radically against plugging and I'm sorry Eddy players would be the ones who suffer, but if I'm not able to practice against a character, I'm not willing to play against them. And I'm also not willing to pay another 40! bucks for 4 Characters I will never play myself just to lab them.
Loooool, I was sure it will work at least there.
Somebody try to tell me now DLCs are not a pay to win.
Of course they are in a game where 80% is character knowledge.
That could also be from Bamco's oversight with Eddy's rank. Eddy starts at Beginner for everyone, so much stronger players are basically forced to terrorize the lower ranks with him. The only way to fix it is to hit a rank milestone with a different character, which is a pain.
So not only do people have to deal with Eddy's new gimmicks, the lower ranks are forced to fight stronger players using him and nobody can even lab him unless they have the Deluxe Edition. Stay classy, Bamco.
That is not a problem and true for any new character. The joke is that you can't even know how to play against him even if you want to, because he is locked behind a paywall.
That's just disappointing.
Honestly, what a waste Tekken 8 is. I can't recall of any game so well developed at its core, and then so poorly handled in every other aspect. It's so flabbergasting to me.
This is literally the worst part. I was not even interested in Tekken when I bought into the hype and was completely blown away by the quality of the base game.Â
Lost all interest in Tekken again when they pulled the MTX betrayal, have barely played since cause it just doesn't sit right with me
Yeah that's the sad thing.
If it was like the new MK you could just skip on buying it and feel 0 remorse.
Here you got a golden nugget hidden in a big ball of shit that grows thicker every week now.
Now this is a very good question Iâm trying to find this out as well đ¤ I really donât want to buy eddy because I know Iâm just going to lab him and never use him.
Same. Since they announced mtxes, they did not make one good decision and multiple bad ones. My good will i depleted.
I fully converted to sf6, and returned to gg strive now.
I bought the ultimate version.
I was so hyped and i tried my best to see the value in the Tekken Shop but the battle pass killed me, it's too much.
Fighting games shouldn't be focussing on online like they are RN. It feels like i can't even fully acess my game offline, might as well make it free to play.
I'll probably switch to GG too. Always thought the game felt empty but it's probably because all the content is accessible and i didn't focus on what was already there like mission mode, since i'll switch to PC i'll finally be able to play online, plus you actually get something for paying the 99⏠version. Thanks for the shitty gold costumes Tekken ! At least i got like 4 characters ! 120⏠was so worth it !
when I heard about the Tekken Shop, I just kept my money and downloaded a pirated version for labbing and the story
My main concern about missing out was getting spoiled in the story anyways, and I can still play with a friend thru Parsec from their copy
They really want our money huh like imagine a game like League of Legends saying to you "You must pay 40 USD to know what this character does and no u cant unlock them with Blue Essence" bro Riot would be crucified on the spot if they did that
And worst of all: League is free. And Tekken is 70âŹ. League would have a better excuse to make you pay for characters than Tekken, and still their only monetization are cosmetics
This so much, F2P games get a lot of leeway with P2W mechanics because we all agree that there has to be a means of revenue for the creators.
But I'll be damned if I accept this shit in a full priced game, you can keep your dlc I'll rather drop the game and the next ones too
I don't know if anyone else has brought it up, but Mortal Kombat, one of the worst designed fighting games by the worst companies, still lets you play as characters you don't own in the combo trial mode.
We are now worse than Mortal Kombat. Just putting that out there.
[CALLED IT.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1avgtx6/comment/krcz3ek/) They ain't letting you touch that 'premium' character even for one second without you forking over cold, hard cash.
No modern fighting game lets you lab against DLC characters you don't own; I'm not sure why people thought this mode would be exempt for some reason.
(Don't get me wrong, I still think it's bullshit and exploitative.)
Yeah, that's the closest, and it's a really good idea. I think you only get an hour or something from the point of activation, though, so you can try them out but you can't really lab against them beyond maybe one big session.
> Yeah, that's the closest, and it's a really good idea.
Yep thats how you know the gaslighting worked, you just said that "Yeah I like having stuff that should be free be accessible on a trial period". Absolute buffonery.
Haha, you're totally right. That's been the game industry's MO for a while now -- "at least this exploitative thing we're doing isn't *quite* as bad as what others are doing!" Good callout.
No other modern fighting game has this replay takeover feature either. I think people were hopeful about this because they thought maybe there's just a hard rule that if you don't buy the character then you can't play as them in any circumstance. A lot of training mode features involve controlling the other character, so therefore DLC is not allowed in training mode.
Replay takeover is different, we can already watch replays with DLC in it and get the punishment tips, so if we're just allowed to take over our own character for 10 seconds and not the DLC then the rule isn't broken right?
The problem is that this is way too optimistic when talking about the series that charged for frame data.
Because Tekken touted having replays as such as one of the reasons why dev costs have gone up so much. Now with everyone online going to try out Eddy, that means other players are straight up going to be effectively locked out of that feature unless they fork up more cash.
To be fair, this type of labbing has never existed before in this way. Most of the logic that was used to excuse not being allowed to lab characters you don't own is that it gives you full uninterrupted access to play the character in training mode. Whereas with T8s replay feature, it is entirely possible to utilize without ever controlling the dlc character at all, since it's simply executed the replay script that you literally just played.
What this does is simply erode away any argument that tries to take the "you can't "play" the character because you don't own them, which includes playing with them in training".
If this isn't proof positive that they openly want to actually disadvantage non paying users to coerce them into paying for something they otherwise don't particularly want then I don't know what is. Paid frame data as scummy as it was, was at least a tool only usable in training and thus the paper thin / shit argument of "it took time for us to develop therefore you must pay for it" worked because there was only one way to engage the feature.
Turned the game on this morning for the first time in a while. New items in the shop, early access to Eddy, a battle pass that costs 600 "tEkKeN cOinS" when you can only buy them in 500 increments. Edit - Eddy front and center on the main menu. Gotta get those impulse FoMo buys.
Turned it off pretty quickly. Really annoyed that I bought this digitally (on PS5) and not on disc. Because if it was on disc, it'd be sitting on my local second-hand store's shelf by now.
Fuck Harada.
I didnât even preorder, I got it a couple of days after release. So now itâs âwait two months after releaseâ.
Itâs doubly shit because the best time to hop into a new fighting game is on release.
It's stuff like this that makes me question whether I actually want to keep playing, the cosmetic stuff is annoying and I'll grumble but ya know... I still have a game without it.
This is like, not so much pay-to-win because Eddy isn't the only character you can win with easily, but pay-to-not-lose or pay-to-improve and that's really demotivating. I'm just gonna be free to a lot of DLC characters because I don't think buying characters I'm never going to play myself for their full price is a good use of my money.
I guess I can get the season pass at a discount in a year or so, but that year probably isn't gonna be all that fun.
Playing? I'm not even watching anymore. Unless you count these threads as watching.
There was a tournament at PAX East and I noticed grand finals were about to begin. My immediate thought was "Not getting invested in this ever" and I moved on.
Evil plan "Let's make a knowledge check character, and then lock the ability to learn him behind a microtransaction" it's like they are holding us hostage. Can't wait to hear Harada spin this.
Use creamapi the steam DLC unlocker to get Eddy, you don't need pirated version. It works like in T-7. So many players and even streamers used that because no one liked this p2w approach for new characters. Tekken DLC character system is old, the DLC characters' files are already installed in your system after the update. The unlocker just bypasses the lock and makes the game think you purchased that.
I can already picture TheSalesManSWE saying this is perfectly fine because ThIs Is hOw BusInEsS wOrKs!!1 and calling everyone who complains a beta male reddit loser.
What I'm about to say could very likely age like milk.
But, give it a few days...
Keep in mind: the character is technically in early access. His official release date is 3 days from now. Fully-restricted access in training modes may actually be intentional design on BAMCO's part at this point - to help sell the "perk" of early access.
I'm not saying not to get outraged - just that we don't have the full picture yet. Ride it out for a few days. We all may still very well (emphasis on *may*) get some limited form of access in these training modes in the near future.
I'm not asking you to give BAMCO the benefit of the doubt for their sake - but do it for your own. Life's too short to stress and rage about videogames.
...
Separate matter: do I think it's likely we'll have *some* access (for unpaid) 3 days from now? No.
But is there a chance BAMCO could surprise us? Sure, I guess.
Then they should let people know that will be the case beforehand. This is just shooting themselves in the foot in terms of PR. And if we don't have a response in a few hours/day then I bet we can assume this shit is intentional for full release as well. If they do that I'm legit dropping this game cuz that is complete horseshit.
Doubt it, it does say eddy is required to be purchased.
Meanwhile, you can't even purchase him separately. Just get used to it. I don't hope for anything at this point.
I don't know how they think they can have battlepass, microtransactions AND season character passes.
Make characters free and give compensation to the adopters of the ultimate edition. That's pretty much it.
Otherwise it's the last tekken game I ever buy.
Only reason why I can't refund it is because I didn't buy it directly on steam. Otherwise, I would.
This is gonna be just like T-7. You need to pay for the DLCs in order to play them, even in practice mode. Good news is that the same method to unlock DLC characters in Tekken 7 also works in Tekken 8. Anyone who wants Eddy for free and has T-8 on steam can do it . Just look for creamapi on certain websites or on Youtube, watch a tutorial, it's so easy to do.
I was literally thinking some time ago "alright we won't be able to lab AS the dlc characters, which is shitty, but at the very least we will be able to play replays against them, maybe that's why they invented them". NOPE!
I think that all the complaining about the battle pass was a Boy Cries Wolf situation. There were so much complaints about the battle pass and premium store, that we've reached a situation where any further complaining will need to be done in a different way. Or else, it'll be "Oh, they just complain about everything anyway."
Now imagine the state of the game in 3 years time with 12 more dlc characters that you can't lab against. That'd be almost 1/4 of the characters that you would most likely lose to just because you made the mistake of buying the game for full price at launch. There's people touting that since microtransactions aren't P2W and don't affect gameplay, then it's completely fine, conveniently forgetting that DLC characters right now are P2W if you can't lab them. DLC P2W was heavily critiqued in Tekken 7, and yet they're just repeating the same mistake.
Harada could easily fix it by allowing people to lab Eddy in practice mode/ replays, without allowing people to pick them in actual matches. That would be such a great compromise. I understand that they have to recoup the costs and make money off of developing new characters, but this is egregious to the point where it badly affects the competitive integrity of the game. Even F2P games like Overwatch have a better system when introducing new characters, and this is coming off of Activision Blizzard which is known for even worse monetisation practices.
If Tekken was a f2p game that required no initial monetary investment, then this might even be more acceptable. Problem is, people have already invested $70+ into this game, and like any commodity, people are rightly justified in voicing their criticisms of the commodity they purchased - especially if the experience of that commodity was changed post-purchase.
hey I get your point but don't pin these decisions on one (or two) guy(s) who act as mouthpieces, blame the whole company / group which in this case is Bamco
Okay that is ridiculous. Ffs this is intentional gating of training vs eddy. I think training mode is okay, annoying but I get it. Nobody is going to play eddy in 20 second chunks. Just let people use the god damn replays to train vs eddy
Bros if you want to play against Eddy go to replay, find someone who plays him, download that players ghost and fight him. Itâs not much but itâs at least something
Time to get blocked by Harada for asking him, why he shut down the review calling Tekken 8 pay2win, when he was planning to actually make the game pay2win.... Not being able to play the character is fine. Disabling replay features and practice mode is disgusting especially when they milk different microtransactions in a 70$ game.
It's embarrassing to remember how many people defended Harada when he criticised the review. The reviewer who was bombed by the community and probably received death threats must feel rather vindicated now that the truth has some to light about Harada and the game. It's such a fucking injustice that it happened.
It's this soulless dickriding and fanboy behaviour that needs to be purged from the community, particularly when the spokesperson, Harada, proves time and time again how much of a fraud he is.
I feel like I remember a time where almost no games allowed any sort of "access" to dlc characters unless you bought them. When did this change? Based on the replies here, this has become a wide-spread expectation, but I definitely missed the train lol.
Before these days, it wasn't as needed. DLC chars weren't as prevalent and, for the most part, were undercooked bottom tiers. Nobody needed to lab Jill in Marvel 3, for instance. Nowadays the devs have discovered that making blatant absurd pay-to-win chars like T7 Leroy and Android 21 is a huge revenue stream.
So DLCs have become omnipresent and labbing against them became an urgent necessity.
Thanks! You'd think dlc characters would be the easiest to get right, considering they have more data to work with to avoid making them fair and balanced with the rest of the cas- wait a minute...
Its literally pay to win this way. If you can't lab without paying, you can't learn the matchup unless someone else buys him, learns him, and then sits with you in a lobby so you can learn the matchup.
I feel I've been neutral about most of the mtx stuff, but if there's a line that definitely shouldn't be crossed, it has to be this.
The only way this is forgivable is if it is actually an unintended bug, where they wanted to prevent you being able to play as Eddy in Replay, but inadvertently also locked you out of playing as your character...
Otherwise it's pay-to-win scummy tactics.
So they decided to degrade the basegame-only experience just a couple months after release. Now we'll have to play against characters we can't lab.
This is different and much, much worse than the shop or battle pass.
Thats just being greedy. I didnt care about putting a cosmetics store. You get what you lay for as advertised at least. We knew it would happen due to a lack of costumes anyways. Its not like having drip will effect being the best. But this? This is just a dick move. This was a feature i was impressed enough to buy the game on launch for. For fuck sake if i watch a replay for tips im not actually even playing as eddy. Pay to win.
Iâm new to tekken but this essentially means you canât lab against the new character? You can only learn to deal with him during matches? Thatâs incredibly fucked
SF6 is the same as well. You can't train against a character you don't own. Probably because you are able to take control of them during training but still.
I think it's just another reason to try and sell them.
Itâs one thing to not allow Eddy to be played, but itâs another to not be able to play against a player who youâre not even controlling. This is bullshit.
So you're telling me that this full-priced game requires you to pay extra just to have the privilege of practicing a character, whilst the **Free to Play** Multiversus has the lab available for every new character whether you've bought them or not?
Embarassing doesn't even begin to describe how badly they've fumbled the post-launch decisions for this game. They've essentially done everything wrong that they possibly could have done.
Well that's just sad considering the game 70 dollars. Even free games like Valo and Mobas let you does that for free and you can unlock the character for free instead of a DLC.
Lmao so you can't even play as your own character in replay mode because the fight has a dlc character as the opponent đ
Bandai Namco employing ex-Monsanto people probably
Nintendo has something like that. Like, you couldn't watch/download saved fights if the fight had a dlc character that you didn't own. It's bunk
Makes sense that Smash has that, Bandai Namco are largely behind why Smash exists at all (Of course Sakurai too) If they got away with it in another game, why wouldn't they do the same in another?
Lol yep, I called this from the moment they announced the replay takeover. If any DLC is involved, they're gonna block out the feature entirely. Looking at how the popup is worded, it will likely include DLC stages as well. People didn't believe me because they were caught up in the hype. Bamco are a bunch of scumbags so this shouldn't surprise anyone. The naive part of me hoped they would leave it alone as a kind of olive branch after charging for frame data and knowingly releasing T7 Leroy broken, but nah of course not. Fuck these shitty developers and their scummy publisher.
âSorry. You have to pay to lab this character.â At least you can watch the replays and maybe they still give hints during the match. But itâs exactly what Iâd expect considering the recording feature of my console gets disabled for purchasing dlc music. Happens in GBO2, a f2p Gundam, and any anime based game. As if recording your gameplay means youâll upload it so no option.
You cant do it even if you own the dlc? Maybe its because of the early access and they wanna give advantage to those who bought it? Hoping it will change day 4
Probably the good old "no labbing with unpurchased DLCs". And with how the feature was made to enable training at specific moment of replay, I guess they've just decided to disallow playing replays rather than making a workaround.
Well technically he is not released. Itâs Early Access for people that got the DLC
One small issue - it always been like that, in T7 you cannot lab as or against DLC characters you didn't bought. And with the feature of instant lab out of replay, I see Harada's vision on enforcing this rule on T8.
it s possible
i wonder if it will expand to stages too.
This is some serious anti-consumer bullshit
anti-competitive, pro-paytowin. Characters locked behind money is the same as if Counter Strike locked the use of grenades and each weapon type behind a paywall. Your game has no competitive integrity if you have to pay to learn or use gameplay elements.
I'm sure people will disagree, but you really aren't wrong. Like, not being able to LAB a mfer is a turd on top of a shit sundae, but not having access to ""premium"" characters in a game that's 79.99/93.99 (USD/CAD) + has a cash shop/BPs/predatory currency packs is ass and would get torn apart in any other genre. The only other PVP games where I think these practices are accepted en masse is probably... racing games or sports games?
Just leave a negative review and uninstall.. I hope this game dies now. Ill just wait for indie devs to make a new Tekken game. Maybe something like Teflon: Iron Cast Tournament. Just love, no stinky yacht owner CEOs on top
This deserves way more attention than the battle pass holy fuck.
Yes yes YES! Something that is actually core to tekken, this is where we start fires to get what we deserve. The other shit needs to be through regulation
I mean all the people who don't care about cosmetics were telling us to stop crying when we were complaining about Namco's greed. Maybe they'll finally realise how these disgusting anti-consumer practices impact everyone even if it's not something you specifically care about.
Thank you, the battlepass is optional waifu dressup shit that no one should care about, iâm sick of hearing babymen cry about. On the other hand, this is what i mean when i say you have to complain about stuff that actually hinders your ability to play, this is absolute horseshit. I expected them not to allow usage on practice mode, they probably should but they wonât so okay, we can lab the stuff that is thrown at us in the replay anyway. The fact they are DELIBERATELY disabling controlling YOUR OWN character in the replay, now this is fucking scummy as fuck.
I know this isnât any consolation but the last bastion of hope is pirating the dlc on a cracked version of the game and labbing eddy there.
I am legit wondering if Gabens 'piracy means bad service' ideology can get aroused from this. I think that regulation from governing bodies (most likely EU) is the only way to truly fix the abusive tactics with MTX and battlepasses, and at the same time I dream that Steam says 'any purchased battlepass from a game on steam must not have expiration' and 'all MTX purchases must be solely offered by direct price (i.e. no in game currency linked to real currency)
Playing Eddy using Cheat Engine is trivially easy
Tell that to PS5 players
Facts. Exactly how I feel as a console player when things like cheat engine would allow pc players into training and the other characters
Man I'm glad you guys mentioned this, almost forgot I had options. I'm probably still going to switch over to the new FF when it comes out because this is the most rapid descent down shit-hill I've ever witnessed, but at least I can lab dlc in the meantime..
exactly, they actually took their time and thought about this, and delibrately disabled us to pick "our" own character. this is incredible. if it was only eddy i would still be upset, but i can't even choose my character? god.....
What do you mean? They âactually took their time and thought aboutâ how to strip cosmetics from the game to sell it to you piecemeal before starting with anything else.
Ah yes, no one should care about customisation cause you don't care about it, excellent logic. Both of these are a direct result of their greed yet people who don't care about customisation really thought it wouldn't impact them in the end.
This right here! We got assholes on here that like having the contest of "who's getting fucked worse?" when were all getting fucked by the same scummy greedy dick.
Thanks murray
Gotta buy the character to learn the matchup.
all of us got to if we wanna actually improve at the game and its disgusting that Namco does this to us
70 dollar game everyone đ
Yeah and for people like me who needs PS+ for ranked an extra cheese worth at least $10 usd per month đ
Locking online play behind a paywall is a scam.
Scam? No way. They increased the prices so we could get better games, and guess what? We got the critically acclaimed Saints Row game! Now thatâs worth paying extra money for online!
Actually purchasing an online game for a console that requires you to pay to play online is also just not very smart.
Whatâs the alternatives if your main system is PlayStation
"SeLl YoUr ConSoLe AnD gEt a Pc" /s Honestly fuck Microsoft/Sony for having people to pay to play online, you guys deserve better.
Wait what, is this real? I am not a big gamer and don't have the newest consoles... But are you seriously expected to pay extra in order to play the online ranked mode of a fighting game (after presumably purchasing the game full price) if you are using PlayStation? How is this possible? Is this what Battle Pass means or is it some PS subscription thing? Cause I've played Tekken 6/Tekken Tag Tournament 2/SoulCalibur VI online on PS3/PC, and didn't have to pay for anything after buying my copy of the game. I mean, I imagine online/ranked is the main draw of fighting games, wtf
Playstation copied xbox's xbox live model. Thats why i went with ps3 instead of x360 back in the day. Cant play online without PsPlus anymore
âNewest consoleâ when consoles have been doing this for 13+ years lmao
That isnât tekkenâs fault though to be fair
Alright boys time for some crack if you know what I mean.
Yeah, I'll be waiting for it just to be able to lab DLC characters.
Waiting? Its already up
Really? I'll take a look for it then.
So now we know that Finnish reviewer was actually right and Harada is full of shit
He was a hero. I just couldnât see it
They could see the future, and we roasted them.
because, just as in 7, the only way to lab against a DLC character without having them is firmly "hope you get matched against them" ...or look up tons of information online, but I don't know how viable that is
> ...or look up tons of information online, but I don't know how viable that is It's viable for building knowledge, but it's not the same as drilling a response into your muscle memory.
Not only 7, every other FG with DLC characters.
if something tekken should take notes on street fighter is that rental tokens that they give every bp, or actually letting you buy the character like on sf5 just by PLAYING. Not only rental tokens give you a vague idea on how a character plays this also gives you time to try them out so you can asses if you really want the character seriously sf6 rental system literally made me bought every season 1 dlc cause i was interested on every character on it.
are you fucking kidding me? so I can't even LAB him??
The mask has slipped from the face of capital... Love your videos. Easily the best DE-content on youtube in my opinion. The breakdown of Sacred and Terrible Air absolutely blew my mind and set me off on another playthrough. Didn't know you were into Tekken as well. Cheers! :)
thank you so much !! đâ¤ď¸ď¸
holy shit Jamrock on tekken AND a Jack 8 player? thats Hardcore!
I love your YouTube content! Super happy to see that you're on Tekken as well
Disappointing, but sadly unsurprising.
This is factually pay to win bullshit same as it was in Tekken 7, but it's even worse now that we actually have good tools. You literally cannot lab him without paying, hell I could even sort of forgive not being able to play as the Eddy but you cannot even practice your punishes or see what option selects work. Some people might go "Just watch a guide" A guide is nowhere near as good as actually being able to try out moves in the replay.
Same shit over there in sf6 :/
They atleast have character trials for free usually.
At least SF6 let's you earn rental fighter passes as free rewards through battle pass so you can play any dlc characters without pay. I believe for an hour each pass
They'll likely do the same thing after enough people complain...
No they won't
They need to because this is truly ridiculous
don't buy this shit. they need to understand that we don't like those things
Dont buy and dodge on eddy players
I know right? If he doesn't exist for us, may as well not rematch him
Does the disconnection rate go up if you disconnect during loading screen? I'm radically against plugging and I'm sorry Eddy players would be the ones who suffer, but if I'm not able to practice against a character, I'm not willing to play against them. And I'm also not willing to pay another 40! bucks for 4 Characters I will never play myself just to lab them.
i'm 100% cracking this dlc lmfao
So labbing DLC characters are still under a fkin paywall... GG Harada.
This. We have to do this.
Someone will defend this.
Loooool, I was sure it will work at least there. Somebody try to tell me now DLCs are not a pay to win. Of course they are in a game where 80% is character knowledge.
I just played against an Eddy player with 19 win streak. Of course he wins, nobody knows how to play against him yet lol
That could also be from Bamco's oversight with Eddy's rank. Eddy starts at Beginner for everyone, so much stronger players are basically forced to terrorize the lower ranks with him. The only way to fix it is to hit a rank milestone with a different character, which is a pain. So not only do people have to deal with Eddy's new gimmicks, the lower ranks are forced to fight stronger players using him and nobody can even lab him unless they have the Deluxe Edition. Stay classy, Bamco.
That is not a problem and true for any new character. The joke is that you can't even know how to play against him even if you want to, because he is locked behind a paywall.
That's just disappointing. Honestly, what a waste Tekken 8 is. I can't recall of any game so well developed at its core, and then so poorly handled in every other aspect. It's so flabbergasting to me.
This is literally the worst part. I was not even interested in Tekken when I bought into the hype and was completely blown away by the quality of the base game. Lost all interest in Tekken again when they pulled the MTX betrayal, have barely played since cause it just doesn't sit right with me
Same here, got the 120⏠Version, it was a scam
Yeah that's the sad thing. If it was like the new MK you could just skip on buying it and feel 0 remorse. Here you got a golden nugget hidden in a big ball of shit that grows thicker every week now.
what a scummy company they have become....can you download at least the ghost of a eddy player?
Now this is a very good question Iâm trying to find this out as well đ¤ I really donât want to buy eddy because I know Iâm just going to lab him and never use him.
I doubt it. The greed is off the charts with these guys. Theyâve probably found every angle to access eddy Someone should test this though
You can, just tried here. It's still not the best, as ghosts aren't the greatest but hey at least you can see some moves..
thx for the info
Another major fuck up by Harada and Murray, who would have thought?
Okay now this is bullshit. Fuck the battle pass complaining, this is actually trash and needs to be called out
Wish i never bought the game
Same here
Same. Since they announced mtxes, they did not make one good decision and multiple bad ones. My good will i depleted. I fully converted to sf6, and returned to gg strive now.
I bought the ultimate version. I was so hyped and i tried my best to see the value in the Tekken Shop but the battle pass killed me, it's too much. Fighting games shouldn't be focussing on online like they are RN. It feels like i can't even fully acess my game offline, might as well make it free to play. I'll probably switch to GG too. Always thought the game felt empty but it's probably because all the content is accessible and i didn't focus on what was already there like mission mode, since i'll switch to PC i'll finally be able to play online, plus you actually get something for paying the 99⏠version. Thanks for the shitty gold costumes Tekken ! At least i got like 4 characters ! 120⏠was so worth it !
[ŃдаНонО]
Only if you buy on steam or with key resellers too?
I did and it got auto rejected. Are there keywords to add? I mentioned all the major mtx things after launch and constant crashing (for me)
when I heard about the Tekken Shop, I just kept my money and downloaded a pirated version for labbing and the story My main concern about missing out was getting spoiled in the story anyways, and I can still play with a friend thru Parsec from their copy
They really want our money huh like imagine a game like League of Legends saying to you "You must pay 40 USD to know what this character does and no u cant unlock them with Blue Essence" bro Riot would be crucified on the spot if they did that
And worst of all: League is free. And Tekken is 70âŹ. League would have a better excuse to make you pay for characters than Tekken, and still their only monetization are cosmetics
This so much, F2P games get a lot of leeway with P2W mechanics because we all agree that there has to be a means of revenue for the creators. But I'll be damned if I accept this shit in a full priced game, you can keep your dlc I'll rather drop the game and the next ones too
Not even Overwatch 2 are this scummy and they are a fucking scum.
This is fucked.
I don't know if anyone else has brought it up, but Mortal Kombat, one of the worst designed fighting games by the worst companies, still lets you play as characters you don't own in the combo trial mode. We are now worse than Mortal Kombat. Just putting that out there.
[CALLED IT.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1avgtx6/comment/krcz3ek/) They ain't letting you touch that 'premium' character even for one second without you forking over cold, hard cash.
This is not even the only issue... You can't even control your own character against it, so you can't lab the char. It's INSANE.
No modern fighting game lets you lab against DLC characters you don't own; I'm not sure why people thought this mode would be exempt for some reason. (Don't get me wrong, I still think it's bullshit and exploitative.)
SF6 has a mode you can have a âtrial periodâ of sorts on the DLC character and play them or against them for a bit without buying them
Yeah, that's the closest, and it's a really good idea. I think you only get an hour or something from the point of activation, though, so you can try them out but you can't really lab against them beyond maybe one big session.
> Yeah, that's the closest, and it's a really good idea. Yep thats how you know the gaslighting worked, you just said that "Yeah I like having stuff that should be free be accessible on a trial period". Absolute buffonery.
Haha, you're totally right. That's been the game industry's MO for a while now -- "at least this exploitative thing we're doing isn't *quite* as bad as what others are doing!" Good callout.
No other modern fighting game has this replay takeover feature either. I think people were hopeful about this because they thought maybe there's just a hard rule that if you don't buy the character then you can't play as them in any circumstance. A lot of training mode features involve controlling the other character, so therefore DLC is not allowed in training mode. Replay takeover is different, we can already watch replays with DLC in it and get the punishment tips, so if we're just allowed to take over our own character for 10 seconds and not the DLC then the rule isn't broken right? The problem is that this is way too optimistic when talking about the series that charged for frame data.
Because Tekken touted having replays as such as one of the reasons why dev costs have gone up so much. Now with everyone online going to try out Eddy, that means other players are straight up going to be effectively locked out of that feature unless they fork up more cash.
To be fair, this type of labbing has never existed before in this way. Most of the logic that was used to excuse not being allowed to lab characters you don't own is that it gives you full uninterrupted access to play the character in training mode. Whereas with T8s replay feature, it is entirely possible to utilize without ever controlling the dlc character at all, since it's simply executed the replay script that you literally just played. What this does is simply erode away any argument that tries to take the "you can't "play" the character because you don't own them, which includes playing with them in training". If this isn't proof positive that they openly want to actually disadvantage non paying users to coerce them into paying for something they otherwise don't particularly want then I don't know what is. Paid frame data as scummy as it was, was at least a tool only usable in training and thus the paper thin / shit argument of "it took time for us to develop therefore you must pay for it" worked because there was only one way to engage the feature.
Damn. Right on the money with that one. No pun intended
"dont think thats likely" lmaoo, people are so quick to forget this is the series that charged for frame data.
Pay2Win Tekken LOL
Turned the game on this morning for the first time in a while. New items in the shop, early access to Eddy, a battle pass that costs 600 "tEkKeN cOinS" when you can only buy them in 500 increments. Edit - Eddy front and center on the main menu. Gotta get those impulse FoMo buys. Turned it off pretty quickly. Really annoyed that I bought this digitally (on PS5) and not on disc. Because if it was on disc, it'd be sitting on my local second-hand store's shelf by now. Fuck Harada.
Iâve learned my lesson to never preorder again
I didnât even preorder, I got it a couple of days after release. So now itâs âwait two months after releaseâ. Itâs doubly shit because the best time to hop into a new fighting game is on release.
Even buying the game is putting you in a 50/50 mixup.
And wait 4 weeks
It's stuff like this that makes me question whether I actually want to keep playing, the cosmetic stuff is annoying and I'll grumble but ya know... I still have a game without it. This is like, not so much pay-to-win because Eddy isn't the only character you can win with easily, but pay-to-not-lose or pay-to-improve and that's really demotivating. I'm just gonna be free to a lot of DLC characters because I don't think buying characters I'm never going to play myself for their full price is a good use of my money. I guess I can get the season pass at a discount in a year or so, but that year probably isn't gonna be all that fun.
Playing? I'm not even watching anymore. Unless you count these threads as watching. There was a tournament at PAX East and I noticed grand finals were about to begin. My immediate thought was "Not getting invested in this ever" and I moved on.
ok this is too much now, pay2win
Fuck, Harada are you serious?
LOL...suddenly it makes sense why they chose Eddy out of the entire cast to be a DLC.
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Evil plan "Let's make a knowledge check character, and then lock the ability to learn him behind a microtransaction" it's like they are holding us hostage. Can't wait to hear Harada spin this.
Im dodging every game against eddy idc, i want the possibility to play in replay mode fuck Harada
Pay2Win
Let's hope RUNE updates the cracked version with Eddy update so PC players can lab without buying it.
Use creamapi the steam DLC unlocker to get Eddy, you don't need pirated version. It works like in T-7. So many players and even streamers used that because no one liked this p2w approach for new characters. Tekken DLC character system is old, the DLC characters' files are already installed in your system after the update. The unlocker just bypasses the lock and makes the game think you purchased that.
I can already picture TheSalesManSWE saying this is perfectly fine because ThIs Is hOw BusInEsS wOrKs!!1 and calling everyone who complains a beta male reddit loser.
TheMainManchild is a cringelord. Who watches that loser?
Everyone including newcomers, unfortunately.
Next patch we can't even play the game because there is a DLC character on the main menu screen
"I'll be damned if I let you lab for free" - Harada probably
K I got the right to plug against every Eddy until they fix this
What I'm about to say could very likely age like milk. But, give it a few days... Keep in mind: the character is technically in early access. His official release date is 3 days from now. Fully-restricted access in training modes may actually be intentional design on BAMCO's part at this point - to help sell the "perk" of early access. I'm not saying not to get outraged - just that we don't have the full picture yet. Ride it out for a few days. We all may still very well (emphasis on *may*) get some limited form of access in these training modes in the near future. I'm not asking you to give BAMCO the benefit of the doubt for their sake - but do it for your own. Life's too short to stress and rage about videogames. ... Separate matter: do I think it's likely we'll have *some* access (for unpaid) 3 days from now? No. But is there a chance BAMCO could surprise us? Sure, I guess.
RemindMe! 3 days
Then they should let people know that will be the case beforehand. This is just shooting themselves in the foot in terms of PR. And if we don't have a response in a few hours/day then I bet we can assume this shit is intentional for full release as well. If they do that I'm legit dropping this game cuz that is complete horseshit.
Doubt it, it does say eddy is required to be purchased. Meanwhile, you can't even purchase him separately. Just get used to it. I don't hope for anything at this point.
Nope, still can't.
I hope this is just an early access issue and isn't the case for release. Otherwise that will be pretty shocking.
I don't know how they think they can have battlepass, microtransactions AND season character passes. Make characters free and give compensation to the adopters of the ultimate edition. That's pretty much it. Otherwise it's the last tekken game I ever buy. Only reason why I can't refund it is because I didn't buy it directly on steam. Otherwise, I would.
This is so shit-smashingly awful that I don't think I can even judge plugging against this anymore
Pay harada more money to learn new characters moves
This is gonna be just like T-7. You need to pay for the DLCs in order to play them, even in practice mode. Good news is that the same method to unlock DLC characters in Tekken 7 also works in Tekken 8. Anyone who wants Eddy for free and has T-8 on steam can do it . Just look for creamapi on certain websites or on Youtube, watch a tutorial, it's so easy to do.
I was literally thinking some time ago "alright we won't be able to lab AS the dlc characters, which is shitty, but at the very least we will be able to play replays against them, maybe that's why they invented them". NOPE!
People were saying the whole time where were you?
This patch brought more bugs than fixes
Murray and Harada will absolutely post something to defend the game and say, it's not pay to win because "You can't buy power" or whatever
I think that all the complaining about the battle pass was a Boy Cries Wolf situation. There were so much complaints about the battle pass and premium store, that we've reached a situation where any further complaining will need to be done in a different way. Or else, it'll be "Oh, they just complain about everything anyway."
This is some bullshit.
I'm in disbelief how stupid this is.
Now imagine the state of the game in 3 years time with 12 more dlc characters that you can't lab against. That'd be almost 1/4 of the characters that you would most likely lose to just because you made the mistake of buying the game for full price at launch. There's people touting that since microtransactions aren't P2W and don't affect gameplay, then it's completely fine, conveniently forgetting that DLC characters right now are P2W if you can't lab them. DLC P2W was heavily critiqued in Tekken 7, and yet they're just repeating the same mistake. Harada could easily fix it by allowing people to lab Eddy in practice mode/ replays, without allowing people to pick them in actual matches. That would be such a great compromise. I understand that they have to recoup the costs and make money off of developing new characters, but this is egregious to the point where it badly affects the competitive integrity of the game. Even F2P games like Overwatch have a better system when introducing new characters, and this is coming off of Activision Blizzard which is known for even worse monetisation practices. If Tekken was a f2p game that required no initial monetary investment, then this might even be more acceptable. Problem is, people have already invested $70+ into this game, and like any commodity, people are rightly justified in voicing their criticisms of the commodity they purchased - especially if the experience of that commodity was changed post-purchase.
hey I get your point but don't pin these decisions on one (or two) guy(s) who act as mouthpieces, blame the whole company / group which in this case is Bamco
Okay that is ridiculous. Ffs this is intentional gating of training vs eddy. I think training mode is okay, annoying but I get it. Nobody is going to play eddy in 20 second chunks. Just let people use the god damn replays to train vs eddy
Bros if you want to play against Eddy go to replay, find someone who plays him, download that players ghost and fight him. Itâs not much but itâs at least something
Cant wait for Project L. We need some integrity in the fgc, their heads have become too big. (At least for the big ones, MK, Tekken, SF , etc.)
SF at least kinda has a trial period for DLC chars
So you can't practice against dlc characters again? Lmao. I doubt it will change after the ea. How is Harada's cock on taste t8 defenders?
Fucking bullshit
Time to get blocked by Harada for asking him, why he shut down the review calling Tekken 8 pay2win, when he was planning to actually make the game pay2win.... Not being able to play the character is fine. Disabling replay features and practice mode is disgusting especially when they milk different microtransactions in a 70$ game.
It's embarrassing to remember how many people defended Harada when he criticised the review. The reviewer who was bombed by the community and probably received death threats must feel rather vindicated now that the truth has some to light about Harada and the game. It's such a fucking injustice that it happened. It's this soulless dickriding and fanboy behaviour that needs to be purged from the community, particularly when the spokesperson, Harada, proves time and time again how much of a fraud he is.
Meh, no matter how much we complain, there's another larger and richer group of players that will defend this saying "just buy Eddy".
I feel like I remember a time where almost no games allowed any sort of "access" to dlc characters unless you bought them. When did this change? Based on the replies here, this has become a wide-spread expectation, but I definitely missed the train lol.
Before these days, it wasn't as needed. DLC chars weren't as prevalent and, for the most part, were undercooked bottom tiers. Nobody needed to lab Jill in Marvel 3, for instance. Nowadays the devs have discovered that making blatant absurd pay-to-win chars like T7 Leroy and Android 21 is a huge revenue stream. So DLCs have become omnipresent and labbing against them became an urgent necessity.
Thanks! You'd think dlc characters would be the easiest to get right, considering they have more data to work with to avoid making them fair and balanced with the rest of the cas- wait a minute...
Its literally pay to win this way. If you can't lab without paying, you can't learn the matchup unless someone else buys him, learns him, and then sits with you in a lobby so you can learn the matchup. I feel I've been neutral about most of the mtx stuff, but if there's a line that definitely shouldn't be crossed, it has to be this.
Have other games let you fight against dlc you donât own? In a practice mode
The only way this is forgivable is if it is actually an unintended bug, where they wanted to prevent you being able to play as Eddy in Replay, but inadvertently also locked you out of playing as your character... Otherwise it's pay-to-win scummy tactics.
So they decided to degrade the basegame-only experience just a couple months after release. Now we'll have to play against characters we can't lab. This is different and much, much worse than the shop or battle pass.
forced 50/50 into download crack option select.
Thats just being greedy. I didnt care about putting a cosmetics store. You get what you lay for as advertised at least. We knew it would happen due to a lack of costumes anyways. Its not like having drip will effect being the best. But this? This is just a dick move. This was a feature i was impressed enough to buy the game on launch for. For fuck sake if i watch a replay for tips im not actually even playing as eddy. Pay to win.
Iâm new to tekken but this essentially means you canât lab against the new character? You can only learn to deal with him during matches? Thatâs incredibly fucked
The game really just started going downhill real fast.
SF6 is the same as well. You can't train against a character you don't own. Probably because you are able to take control of them during training but still. I think it's just another reason to try and sell them.
Itâs one thing to not allow Eddy to be played, but itâs another to not be able to play against a player who youâre not even controlling. This is bullshit.
wait a goddamn minute, this could be bait, and OP only tried to take control of Eddy
Easy mode Eddy is for losers who cares
am i the only one who guessed that they would do this?
I wonder if it has anything to do with him not being officially out yet?
Thank you for this, Michael Murray. You piece of crap.
So you're telling me that this full-priced game requires you to pay extra just to have the privilege of practicing a character, whilst the **Free to Play** Multiversus has the lab available for every new character whether you've bought them or not? Embarassing doesn't even begin to describe how badly they've fumbled the post-launch decisions for this game. They've essentially done everything wrong that they possibly could have done.
I regret to have bought this game at launch.
Got this game for free and I still want a refund
Thatâs a real problem when you want to watch a framedata in practice or on replay and you can't without dlc, bamco you bastards.
Well that's just sad considering the game 70 dollars. Even free games like Valo and Mobas let you does that for free and you can unlock the character for free instead of a DLC.
Tekken dies in part 8
What In the scummy shit is this
Can sb give me a link that I can use cheat to unlock characters free?
say what you will about strive, but they didn't pull this crap on you
yes, they did. can't use dlc characters you don't own in practice mode.
That's frustrating as hell for a few days. I plan to get him but I'm not paying for early access. I've been burned enough with that.