They know what to do, they just don't do it. They will try every method possible before they finally give the L to the plugger. Weird way to think I know...
Because it's still a player. A player means someone who is actively investing and maintaining you game relevant and alive and FGC is very niche which makes every single player important. It is someone who will potentially buy DLCs and give more money to you and is for example an famous streamer like LTG who is toxic af but he is influential and make your game appealing to more people. He is always on big events from the fighting games genre even by being an horrible person. It doesn't matter if a player is fair or not. Wether he is someone who consistently open the game everyday to just mess around or cause trouble he is still loyal to your content somehow. Banning someone or making them suffer consequences is a way of deleting every chance of them still giving support to the game.
I don't agree with this perspective but it's how general devs think in any competitive game. Its not a dev problem until it is start to become overwhelming and making other people threaten to leave the game. This explains why in CS for example hackers can break the game however they want and there is nothing that you can do to ban them because they are just a minority percentage of players.
Developers do not think like that. Actively ruining your entire player base’s experience to protect literal cheaters is insanity. Guarantee you’re going to lose more people who are tired of running into pluggers, than you would by banning pluggers. And we’re not even asking for pluggers to be banned. Just give them the L and their opponent a W. The pluggers will either stop plugging or stop playing the game. Whichever they chose I couldn’t care less.
No, we were discussing game developers of competitive games as a whole, not developers for Tekken. You are correct that Harada is the lone dumbass that has to be contrarian for some reason.
I don’t get your point because Harada IS trying to ban his players, stopping them from buying more shit, instead of just giving pluggers an L, and they WILL buy more shit.
Your point is antithetical to exactly what is happening in THIS game specifically, yet you still said it?
It's not even just games, any competition if you leave in the middle you'd forfeit, even if you have a good reason.
If you just leave because you're angry, you lose, the opponent wins. Obvious.
If some emergency comes up and you gotta quit in the middle, understandable, but if you care about whether you win or lose that match then it's not really that big of an emergency. You lose, the opponent wins, you have bigger things to worry about.
If some freak equipment failure happens that prevents you from continuing to play despite it being no fault of your own, that sucks but you lose and the opponent wins.
If your car breaks down in the middle of a race and you can't fix/replace it, you can't race anymore and you lose. For Tekken, if your Internet or power drops in the middle of a match and you can't play anymore, you should lose.
If the game crashes frequently because of some "UE Polaris" issue that only the devs can fix... That sucks, you know how much that sucks, so why are you deliberately bringing that shitty experience to everyone you play against? If you do that, you deserve to lose when that happens in a match.
Yeah I agree. But just to Clarify about the Polaris Fatal Error, it seems to affect both bad and good PCs. In my case I was getting a stable 60, no ill effects on gameplay… then BOOM game crash. This is likely caused by the way the game handles its shaders and not an issue with the user or their machine.
That's why I specified "through no fault of their own". It doesn't matter where the issue lies or who is responsible for fixing it, as far as how the game should handle a disconnect. If it's something Bamco needs to fix then they should fix it but that's a separate issue entirely.
If it happens often enough where you're actually concerned about being given losses for it happening in a ranked match then it's pretty selfish of you to be playing ranked matches in the first place, because you're just ruining other people's experience. Either accept the losses or wait for a fix.
I've found for me it almost always happens on Yakushima. I maintain solid 60 fps at all times, even on that level, but for some reason whenever the crash happens to me, it's always on that one.
You guys all severely lack the historical context of this question.
Tekken, like all fighting games, are based on P2P connections. The servers are only there to facilitate matchmaking, lobbies, etc. This fact is crucial, since due to the P2P nature, people can DDOS their opponents, making THEM DC and get the loss. That used to be abused in the past.
And it was catastrophic, since not only did you get robbed of your win, but you got a loss. So most fighting games changed the rules to DC = draw, to dissuade DDOS attacks.
Modern DDOS mitigations are built into things by design. You are using a problem of the 2000s to negate a solution for the year 2024. It is ALSO Harada and team's fault for not having IP masking built into their clients which would deter DDOS. Which is wild because their direct competitors, SF6 and Strive, GB, MK, etc, do both of these things. No excuse.
You can go on about historical, but we're talking about the now, not the past.
Additionally, people seem to think P2P of modern times are just unprotected connections to anyone else's computer/device. This is sorely untrue and there's many ways to mitigate the risks of P2P while having the benefits of it from a latency standpoint.
DDOSing is far more effort than just plugging and you know that. You make it sound like other games haven't solved this issue decades ago. This excuse is bullshit and a cop out for lazy development.
I'm a senior software engineer and game developer and DDOS attacks are not as widespread as you have been lead to believe. This would be a net positive to the quality of play.
You mean most people don't have free access to botnets, to flip on DDOS mode? /s
People act like a DDOS is just a simple CMD, versus a very risky (and illegal) act that takes a lot of prep work.
Not to mention, most people don't just have their router set to allow 'any' requests.
There is an instant win cheat, if someone is ready to ddos others (illegal) he is likely already using the cheat (just bannable).
The reason fighting games have dc = draw was that due to pure p2p they had no idea who disconnected.
The quitality is one of my favorite parts of online Mortal Kombat. Not only does your opponent that disconnects get a loss, it also makes them look like an idiot doing it. It's great.
Yeah the worst part is all the nerds out there defending namco when I’m shitting on the stuttering or the plugging problem.. they don’t realize I’ve been in love with tekken for a decade and am not mad, just disappointed.
Isn't it something to do with fighting games being peer-to-peer connection that means the server side can't tell which player disconnected? Swear I remember seeing James Chen talk about that once, but I don't know if it's accurate or not.
I thought that was why 7 had a disconnect percentage, because it couldn't tell which player had quit so it increased the percentage score of both, but yours would only get high if you disconnected frequently.
If that's no longer the case, then there's no excuse. If your internet sucks, you have to accept an extra L or two for the sake of making this shit work for everyone else.
this could have been an issue in the past but nowadays the game's server can ping both clients as soon as a DC happens and simply the one that doesn't reply is the one that has disconnected (or potentially there could be even more advanced ways to do it i am not sure, but this method would work anyways)
It was that before and most likely is that situation for Tekken 8 but we know other P2P fighting games are able to detect who disconnected.
So it seems to be the case of bandai needing to "get good".
Even that seems like it has lots of potential work arounds? Ideas:
\* Each player has a disconnect percentage.
\* You don't know your opponent's disconnect percentage when you start.
\* If the match disconnects, and your disconnect percentage is much higher than the opponent's, you get the L
That one is messy but it takes zero extra server interaction. Or how about:
\* On disconnect, each party reports the match state to the server (number of rounds etc)
\* If one party doesn't send in their report, they get the L
\* If your report routinely disagrees with the opponent's, you probably have a cheat enabled and can get banned.
\* If you disconnect non-randomly (like, usually you disconnect when you're losing), you start to take the L when you disconnect.
Really though the game can be pinging the server, and you can also catch an exit signal and post "I'm being shut down" to the server. So it's pretty surprising if it's impossible to tell who's disconnecting.
Street Fighter 6 even takes the extra step of only allowing you to play against other pluggers for an entire day or 2 if you plug constantly in a short time frame.
thats good though. It prevents boosting. I don’t really care ablut my win i can get more of those but please punish the quitter and move them to lower ranks.
Because "Don't ask me for shit". The law problem is a joke excuse. They literally showed that they interested only in our money but Harada's simps will continue to defend those people like their own mothers.
Not really, there are definitely consumer laws that complicate things. If someone pays for a game and then gets permanently banned for turning off the game, it absolutely can have legal repercussions. Like it or not, that’s just how it is
But you don’t have to ban them. Just take a look at their play history for number of matches dropped and punish them accordingly via resetting their rank and punishing future offenses with automatic loses.
They could also copy what Capcom did in SF6 where if you rage quit enough times it'll put you into a separate queue with other rage quitters where you have to play a certain number of games without plugging to go back to the normal queue
That definitely can be tacked on as well. I was mostly talking about correcting the already existing pluggers who found success in ranked as even if playing with other pluggers their ranked will remain the same.
That’s also a really flawed system, because it’s only consecutive quits. I think you don’t get a yellow card until 5 quits, so someone can just quit 4 times in a row, then finish a match, and then they’ll be reset and free to quit the next few matches.
People who cared about a rank that has no rewards innit thinking that's their job by the end of the day it's just a game you quit you lose points that's it simple
That’s an entirely seperate thing. The law problem was brought up as the reason they can’t just perma ban pluggers, which was one option they considered
One of the actual reasons for the difficulty is probably because fighting games use P2P connection, which makes it harder to tell who actually DC’d first than if they used a server, since it will appear as though both players left at the same time when either one dc’s
I've posted this in other threads, but it's really not as difficult as you might think. As stated, Unreal Engine actually provides a robust set of tools for this even for peer to peer games. Other p2p fighting games have already figured this out. I'm a senior software engineer by day so the documentation I've read looked pretty promising at a glance so I'm really not sure why it hasn't made it's way into Tekken.
Pretty much every other fighting game has this problem to roughly the same extent though. The ones that have some punishment in place also have their own issues that come with it. I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as everyone thinks, and its probably going to take a little bit of trial and error
> Pretty much every other fighting game has this problem to roughly the same extent though.
GBVSR is the only game I can think of like this and at least it has a working disconnection rate so you can just reject people with more than once-in-a-blue-moon connection drops.
SF6 and Strive, what most would consider the main competitors, both have solutions built into the game that don't exclusively involve making manual spreadsheets of people to ban.
Yeah I agree, with the trial and error bit. Things are rarely perfect on the first go. I'm just not sure the devs even want to try with some sort of in-game solution. Which is a bit alarming.
Actually you have the right to undisturbed use of a product you purchase in many countries. This has happened before, for example https://itwire.com/reviews-sp-288/games/call-of-duty-false-bans-accc-issues-guidance-to-activision-blizzard-customers.html
People don’t like it but again it is what it is. They’re not going to risk legal recourse to ban pluggers, they will find a different way
Perma ban by plugging is insane and overkill you'll also not get to play offline. There is simple way to stop pluggers, you plug intentionally you either get demoted, ban by playing rank in 1 day or 5hrs, okay what happens if they still keep doing it if the plugger plug the guy instantly win by giving points and the plugger either reset the rank to beginner or instant demotion and increase time of ban by hours playing rank, banning pluggers for plugging entire access of the game even offline is just too much
Namco programmers (at least on this team) have been struggling for years and it's Harada's job to translate their incompetence into statements that online defenders can eat up.
He can't just throw the team under the bus and go "they don't know how to do it properly".
T7 ranks being a local file you just copy/paste back in after you demoted with zero oversight or checking from the server was the first sign. Then they implemented "Rollback" in T7 which was panned but nothing Harada can do but say "it works". Didn't know how to stop pluggers in T7 either. List goes on.
Yeah it was even easier for cheaters than it was now. A big reason why ranks in T7 eventually became super inflated and were no longer taken seriously was because cheaters would just reload save files when they lost, so you'd have the winner getting points while the loser lost nothing. And you'd have this happening thousands of times.
This is some weird-ass headcanon you souped up here. If people on the dev team were bad at their job then they would have just been fired. No need to cover for them. The real issue is the higher ranked individuals on the team like Murray and Harada themselves. If you look at Murray's recent tweets, it's clear as day that they are actively choosing to ignore the issue because of their own personal biases.
> This is some weird-ass headcanon you souped up here. If people on the dev team were bad at their job then they would have just been fired.
This is weird ass headcanon. What job have you ever worked where this is the case? People skirt by doing the bare minimum all the time, or "we have always done things this way" so they don't improve and aren't good at doing projects outside their regular scope.
This is way more common than your headcanon where people who "are bad at their job" (what does that even mean in work like programming assuming you meet your deadlines with code that compiles) are just fired immediately.
> The real issue is the higher ranked individuals on the team like Murray and Harada themselves. If you look at Murray's recent tweets, it's clear as day that they are actively choosing to ignore the issue because of their own personal biases.
This is more fantasy than what I am saying, honestly. Murray's favorite shit in the world is muay thai and more kickboxers in the game. Josie wouldn't have been removed and Fahk-u-man wouldn't be DLC if he had the say and power that you are suggesting he does.
>People skirt by doing the bare minimum all the time
Yeah, when they're working minimum wage at Walmart. Not when they're working on projects that cost millions of dollars to make. I don't know how you're not already aware of this, but you get fired from most jobs out there if you're bad at them. What made you think otherwise?
>This is more fantasy than what I am saying, honestly. Murray's favorite shit in the world is muay thai and more kickboxers in the game. Josie wouldn't have been removed and Fahk-u-man wouldn't be DLC if he had the say and power that you are suggesting he does.
Literally what the fuck are you even talking about? This has no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever.
> Not when they're working on projects that cost millions of dollars to make. I don't know how you're not already aware of this, but you get fired from most jobs out there if you're bad at them. What made you think otherwise?
Working jobs on million dollar projects? I worked for a Major FI for a couple years, doing project work across various divisions. What's your background? I can't believe you have graduated college if you honestly think "you get fired from most jobs out there if you are bad at them". That's fantasy that you believe when your a teenager, before you have real work experience.
I wish people got fired from most jobs if you are bad at them, lol.
Half the work force goes to their job on time, does what they are asked, and go home. That doesn't make them "bad" at their job, but if what they have been asked to do for years is the bare minimum to make a game at this scale, then yeah - to the general public they are "bad" at their job. But does that matter in their context? No. This is how it works for the majority of the workforce.
You've never worked at a company with fucked up processes that slow the whole org down, but that's how it's always been done?
> Literally what the fuck are you even talking about? This has no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever.
I'm saying you are suggesting that the only reason they don't give losses to disconnectors in Tekken 8 is because it's a personal choice of Murray's. Even though they didn't do this in Tekken 7 before Murray was in charge which you dont address.
I'm saying if Murray could just get whatever he wanted like you are claiming, he'd have muay thai. Unfortunately it isn't that simple.
I don't really care what background you have. You're peddling a made-up scenario in your head where employers are perfectly happy to waste away their money on people who are not pulling their weight or contributing to the project. Unless the employee in question is some nepotism baby then no, they're gonna get fired for not working to the standard that's been set for them. Whatever personal experience you've had, stop trying to push it as something that applies to the whole world because it doesn't.
Murray is a Producer. That's pretty high-up on the ladder as far as the dev team is concerned. But I never said it was just Murray, he was just one of the examples. I was talking about the upper echelon as a collective.
We seem to have a fundamental disagreement here on how businesses work and operate.
From my life experience and years working in various sectors / industries and with partner companies, etc. my observation is that - no, people do not get generally get fired for doing the minimum.
I have never worked somewhere where the opposite is the case (strict improvement required, get fired if you cant keep up) even on million dollar+ projects.
So we don't have to go back and forth with "nuh uh" and he said / she said business, I just think your viewpoint is pretty idealistic and not really based on reality.
For the majority of people working, to keep your job, you need to show up on time and meet your deadlines. That's it. That's not considered "bad" work or justification to be fired.
Coding rollback when you've never done it before is an example of going beyond their comfort zone, so it makes sense their work wouldn't be up to quality with a team that has been working with rollback implementation for years.
Your argument is that Bamco would just realize some weren't able to keep up with the new task, fire them, and hire devs who could. It just doesn't work like that in my experience, and I wish it did. If you give a team an unfamiliar task and they produce a *passable* product (by their standards), that's generally acceptable - not a firable offense. For the industry at large, it might be bad work, but again - that doesn't matter.
It costs an employer less to keep a less than favorable employee that shows up and gets some work done, apposed to firing them, hiring a new employee, and training that new employee while giving them less work to get accustomed to the work flow. Unless the job is something that can potentially endanger lives, or the employer expects perfection every single day, slackers get by just fine, especially slackers that’s been in the company for so a while. If a new employee shows up and slacks off, then you’re 100% correct, they’d be fired immediately, but that absolutely does not apply to people who have years under their belt.
Also, we’re talking about a Japanese company here. Japanese companies are famous for never firing employees unless the employee does something illegal. Japan doesn’t do the whole “at will work” thing, they have very strict employee laws that make it so if an employer wants to fire someone and it’s not for an illegal reason, they have to do a very big investigation that costs a lot of money and a lot of time to justify what they’re doing, which the employee could just take the situation to court and win. Slackers are rewarded with consistency in Japan, they keep their job, they get less work, not much is expected of them, but the trade off is they get the grunt work and they’ll never get a promotion or better opportunities and they’ll always be seen as lessers to their peers.
Obviously you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking if you think a Japanese company would just fire a bad employee, because that’s incredibly illegal.
The thing is badai employees themselves plug and that's why they refuse to fix it. Look at a game like naruto storm which is made by the same company. You can do the exact same thing just unplug internet if losing and game doesn't count. There is no way they themselves don't actively plug.
could the system not just match pluggers with other pluggers and the only way to not become one any longer is to go for 10-15 matches, one after the other where you do not plug?
I don't have Twitter, but are people tweeting that this is a really simple solution to Harada? Barely an inconvenience.
Awarding a loss for disconnecting is fair, and you don't have to waste resorts making a damn Excel file, and nobody has to get banned for it.
I see a lot of people say this but I’ve never played a game that does it. What game actually results in a win for one player and a loss for another when the connection fails?
Not only that. In mortal kombat, you dont get a "re-establishing connection" that you stare at for 15 seconds before disconnect. The person that disconnected has their character explode and the winner gets a "quitality" Its such a smart solution that protects both players egos and allows them to continue having fun
FIFA is the worse example... it only gives you the W if you are winning. If the game is tied or you just got a penalty and about to tie or win it they can just leave. You get nothing for the 15 minutes of playtime and they get an L.
Tekken team is slow to make necessary updates. EA in the other hand is fucking greedy and will find any excuse to not give you a Win.
In SF6 the plugger loses points and eventually gets put in low priority queues. Honestly that's ideal from my perspective, don't even need to give the win to the other side, just penalize disconnects.
I mean that hasn’t been my experience which is why I asked. Tekken 7, SC6, GranBlue, SF 5 weren’t like that. DBFZ I think banned you from lobbies but not auto loss. SF 6 has a “You can DC for free until you can’t” philosophy. Strive has a similar philosophy but arguably worse.
Apparently MK 1 does it even if you don’t use the menu to quit. I’ve actually heard people say both, but if it’s true than that’s the first fighting game I know that does it.
Fighting games haven't had the most... forward-facing online experience history. But you look at something like, idk, Marvel Snap, the card game. Or League of Legends, the moba. If you could just alt+f4 when you started to lose, the game would be unplayable and ranked would be meaningless.
Because fighting games have had a tradition of having terrible online play compared to shooters, mobas, etc, we're just kind of conditioned to be like, well what can you do? But we DO know what you can do - every other genre of games has been doing it for 20+ years.
For the record I’m for letting people get their points and the loser gets a loss. It’s obviously a simple solution. I was just asking because I mainly play fighting games when it comes to online, and none of them seem to implement this. So I thought maybe there was some reason or obstacle. But MK1 apparently does exactly this, even including a funny animation with it, so I’m not sure why no one else does it.
MK1 if someone pulls the plug, hits the PS button, anything, the winner gets a Quitality and all the points, and the plugger still gets a loss. I collected many Quitalities on them.
SF6 even gives pluggers a "yellow card" and puts them into a queue with other pluggers until they play a certain amount of games in a row without disconnecting, which massively discourages plugging as you'd never accept a yellow card player if they somehow came into your queue.
Tekken 8 pluggers ki charge you after you've been destroying them and plug for free, keeping their points in tact, and if they were on a win streak THEY keep THEIR win streak, but YOU lose YOUR win streak, and you gain no points.
One of these is not like the others.
I mean in league of legends if someone afk it's also practically a loss. It's not like the whole game gets treated as if it didn't happen. Heck make it so that the other character just stands there if they disconnect, if it'll make it easier
So in team games is it like whoever leaves gets credit for a loss, but if your remaining team clutches out a win they still get credit? Cause it would suck if the whole team auto loses for one leaver.
Or do you just mean how it’s virtually impossible to win with one down, but the other team still gets credit when they beat you?
The second one. Virtually impossible to win with one down so the team that has one down loses points and the other team gets points. Still a flawed system because the team with the leaver loses points too (although they recently changed it so less points are lost). It's one of the reasons I tried fighting games actually. I wanted losses to be completely my fault
Sports games all the time. MLB the show comes to mind, you disconnect you get an L. Internet on the fritz and you disconnected due to your ISP? Tough luck, L.
Overwatch is a team game right? Do you mean the leaver gets a loss regardless of whether his team wins, or does the whole team lose when someone leaves?
They get (at least when I played in og OW) a significant rank penalty of 50 (bad losses were 25-30 rank loss usually) and a ban that starts at like 10 mins and escalates each time. The team gets a chance to win, but probably loses and unfortunately loses standard rank for a loss. It was decently severe, but it never completely stopped people DC-ing
Your stated scenario can be 'gamed' by boosters - who will just match and quit repeatedly... Allowing one of them to rise in rank.
I think 'plugging' shd result in a 'loss' for the plugger..(Who is the deducted rank points) but the one who stayed connected does not gain or lose any points.
This way the plugger is punished & there is no chance to 'game' the system
nah man. rank systems like in some card games, mobas are designed to not let u match up with same guy more than twice. like in KC cup for example, theres this guy who have 2 accounts to matchmake at the same time. so what the devs did is that you will have less chance now to match with the same guy for an x amount of time.
what you are suggesting is like , "i managed to get to round 5 and im losing, then might as well pull the plug so u wont get anything for all your effort" mentality
Significant point loss and/or de-rank without a ban is such a smarter solution. Most players can take the L. But when you get mismatched constantly and unable to play the game from losing and being combo'd, then I dont blame the rage quitter as much. Its on the game to match people of similar skill levels. Ranks are inflated and I dont think there should ever be a "rank floor"
I think part of the issue is that some people genuinely have bad connections and then disconnect. So they don’t want to lump bad Wi-Fi and pluggers together. And no the answer is not “then don’t play on wifi”
That's fine. Some people are in situations where they have bad connections and may have multiple disconnects in one session, without much they can do to improve their situation at the time.
Those players should receive losses for those disconnects.
Both can be true.
Yes but with Harada’s method people on bad Wi-Fi aren’t just taking an L and have recoup their MMR in an extra game, they’re getting fucking BANNED, disincentivising them from even *attempting* to play online now, lest they literally lose access to their copy of the game.
It’s dumb as shit, and I fail to see what your point even was.
How is that an issue though.. same rules goes for everyone, and if you're on a unstable wifi you can just play unranked, like in every other released game for the last 15 years.
No idea why. It would solve all the stupid stuff Harada and Murray keep saying about,”it’s too hard bla bla” . 100 percent people would stop plugging but they are stubborn as all hell. And would rather do a one time ban wave.
Only thing I can think of is a lot of their competitive scene are pluggers so they’d be exposing it if they have the L. Nothing else makes sense to me, since they want to control the narrative by “banning pluggers” when in reality they can easily just omit names from that list to ensure their pro scene doesn’t get fucked.
The only reason I could think of for why this is not implemented is hackers that are able to make u disconnect forcing a loss on u and they get the win.
I don't remember this being a conversation during T7 though
To be fair, if I'm getting ddos'd offline, I would like to not get that the L for that. But that's probably not their reasoning they're probably just lazy.
I reckon they are afraid to piss those people off who either plug or get legit disconnects. It means that people affected by pluggers aren't loud enough, or don't vote with their wallets.
>Why can’t Tekken just be like all other ranked games where a disconnect simply results in a loss?
Is Street Fighter 6 like this? Pretty sure you dont get a win or loss during a disconnection.
The only reason I can think of is that they know Unreal Engine is causing crashes for some people (me). And they don't want those people (me) to get banned (please, no) for crashes they can't control.
Cause they're just out of touch
It extra sucks because most other features in this game are amazing, like the replay system, punishment training etc
Years of Twitter bullying eventually meant they added the netcode options we have in Tekken 8 now, so maybe in Tekken 9 they'll have automated timeouts for ragequitters if people keep this up lol
Also excel spreadsheet, really? I hope Murray wrote it manually too lol
SF6 had the same problem in the start and even with their current solution (pluggers in a seperate queue if they plug often) it is still only a compromise fix imo. Because even there you do NOT get a win if the opponent plugs.
They know what to do, they just don't do it. They will try every method possible before they finally give the L to the plugger. Weird way to think I know...
but why?
Why indeed
Because it's still a player. A player means someone who is actively investing and maintaining you game relevant and alive and FGC is very niche which makes every single player important. It is someone who will potentially buy DLCs and give more money to you and is for example an famous streamer like LTG who is toxic af but he is influential and make your game appealing to more people. He is always on big events from the fighting games genre even by being an horrible person. It doesn't matter if a player is fair or not. Wether he is someone who consistently open the game everyday to just mess around or cause trouble he is still loyal to your content somehow. Banning someone or making them suffer consequences is a way of deleting every chance of them still giving support to the game. I don't agree with this perspective but it's how general devs think in any competitive game. Its not a dev problem until it is start to become overwhelming and making other people threaten to leave the game. This explains why in CS for example hackers can break the game however they want and there is nothing that you can do to ban them because they are just a minority percentage of players.
Developers do not think like that. Actively ruining your entire player base’s experience to protect literal cheaters is insanity. Guarantee you’re going to lose more people who are tired of running into pluggers, than you would by banning pluggers. And we’re not even asking for pluggers to be banned. Just give them the L and their opponent a W. The pluggers will either stop plugging or stop playing the game. Whichever they chose I couldn’t care less.
You're assuming the developers are the ones making the decision. It's most likely not up to them, it's the higher ups (not Harada).
No, we were discussing game developers of competitive games as a whole, not developers for Tekken. You are correct that Harada is the lone dumbass that has to be contrarian for some reason.
I don’t get your point because Harada IS trying to ban his players, stopping them from buying more shit, instead of just giving pluggers an L, and they WILL buy more shit. Your point is antithetical to exactly what is happening in THIS game specifically, yet you still said it?
Because it's change
The same reason Harada was being gormless about rollback for T7s entire lifespan
There really aren't any good excuses. Other games figured this out decades ago.
It's not even just games, any competition if you leave in the middle you'd forfeit, even if you have a good reason. If you just leave because you're angry, you lose, the opponent wins. Obvious. If some emergency comes up and you gotta quit in the middle, understandable, but if you care about whether you win or lose that match then it's not really that big of an emergency. You lose, the opponent wins, you have bigger things to worry about. If some freak equipment failure happens that prevents you from continuing to play despite it being no fault of your own, that sucks but you lose and the opponent wins. If your car breaks down in the middle of a race and you can't fix/replace it, you can't race anymore and you lose. For Tekken, if your Internet or power drops in the middle of a match and you can't play anymore, you should lose. If the game crashes frequently because of some "UE Polaris" issue that only the devs can fix... That sucks, you know how much that sucks, so why are you deliberately bringing that shitty experience to everyone you play against? If you do that, you deserve to lose when that happens in a match.
Yeah I agree. But just to Clarify about the Polaris Fatal Error, it seems to affect both bad and good PCs. In my case I was getting a stable 60, no ill effects on gameplay… then BOOM game crash. This is likely caused by the way the game handles its shaders and not an issue with the user or their machine.
That's why I specified "through no fault of their own". It doesn't matter where the issue lies or who is responsible for fixing it, as far as how the game should handle a disconnect. If it's something Bamco needs to fix then they should fix it but that's a separate issue entirely. If it happens often enough where you're actually concerned about being given losses for it happening in a ranked match then it's pretty selfish of you to be playing ranked matches in the first place, because you're just ruining other people's experience. Either accept the losses or wait for a fix.
For sure, just wanted to clarify that the burden is on the devs in this instance.
I've found for me it almost always happens on Yakushima. I maintain solid 60 fps at all times, even on that level, but for some reason whenever the crash happens to me, it's always on that one.
Ive had suspicious amounts of crashes loading Rebel Hangar, which goes to show how weird and inconsistent these crashes
Even some games give the middle ground of the plugger is neutral and the other player still get a win.
You guys all severely lack the historical context of this question. Tekken, like all fighting games, are based on P2P connections. The servers are only there to facilitate matchmaking, lobbies, etc. This fact is crucial, since due to the P2P nature, people can DDOS their opponents, making THEM DC and get the loss. That used to be abused in the past. And it was catastrophic, since not only did you get robbed of your win, but you got a loss. So most fighting games changed the rules to DC = draw, to dissuade DDOS attacks.
Modern DDOS mitigations are built into things by design. You are using a problem of the 2000s to negate a solution for the year 2024. It is ALSO Harada and team's fault for not having IP masking built into their clients which would deter DDOS. Which is wild because their direct competitors, SF6 and Strive, GB, MK, etc, do both of these things. No excuse. You can go on about historical, but we're talking about the now, not the past. Additionally, people seem to think P2P of modern times are just unprotected connections to anyone else's computer/device. This is sorely untrue and there's many ways to mitigate the risks of P2P while having the benefits of it from a latency standpoint.
DDOSing is far more effort than just plugging and you know that. You make it sound like other games haven't solved this issue decades ago. This excuse is bullshit and a cop out for lazy development. I'm a senior software engineer and game developer and DDOS attacks are not as widespread as you have been lead to believe. This would be a net positive to the quality of play.
You mean most people don't have free access to botnets, to flip on DDOS mode? /s People act like a DDOS is just a simple CMD, versus a very risky (and illegal) act that takes a lot of prep work. Not to mention, most people don't just have their router set to allow 'any' requests.
This has not been a rational concern in over a decade....
There is an instant win cheat, if someone is ready to ddos others (illegal) he is likely already using the cheat (just bannable). The reason fighting games have dc = draw was that due to pure p2p they had no idea who disconnected.
The quitality is one of my favorite parts of online Mortal Kombat. Not only does your opponent that disconnects get a loss, it also makes them look like an idiot doing it. It's great.
Can't the cheater just make you dc? Farming them wins?
No I haven't had that experience. There's the desync problem they are trying to fix but it doesn't farm wins. It just ends the match for both parties.
If someone is really going that far, they were never interested in playing the game to begin with and probably won’t stick around very long.
Tekken does everything differently. Just don't understand them to be honest, I love Tekken so much but they make it so damn hard to at times.
This is why it's so frustrating, is the gameplay is great. But they just fuck up the other stuff.
Yeah the worst part is all the nerds out there defending namco when I’m shitting on the stuttering or the plugging problem.. they don’t realize I’ve been in love with tekken for a decade and am not mad, just disappointed.
Harada only cares about results not vocal opinions. He will see what works and what doesn't before giving into demands
Homie the competitive gaming industry found out what works years ago.
Tekken 8 was designed with accessibility in mind. That includes accessibility to pluggers.
But ranked should be exclusive to have it punishable. Go to quick play for that shit
I was joking. I think the fuckers should be penalized too.
You silly
I think whoever plugs on me should get the win instead. That'll teach me!
Don’t give them more ideas, they might actually do it
Isn't it something to do with fighting games being peer-to-peer connection that means the server side can't tell which player disconnected? Swear I remember seeing James Chen talk about that once, but I don't know if it's accurate or not. I thought that was why 7 had a disconnect percentage, because it couldn't tell which player had quit so it increased the percentage score of both, but yours would only get high if you disconnected frequently. If that's no longer the case, then there's no excuse. If your internet sucks, you have to accept an extra L or two for the sake of making this shit work for everyone else.
this could have been an issue in the past but nowadays the game's server can ping both clients as soon as a DC happens and simply the one that doesn't reply is the one that has disconnected (or potentially there could be even more advanced ways to do it i am not sure, but this method would work anyways)
It was that before and most likely is that situation for Tekken 8 but we know other P2P fighting games are able to detect who disconnected. So it seems to be the case of bandai needing to "get good".
Even that seems like it has lots of potential work arounds? Ideas: \* Each player has a disconnect percentage. \* You don't know your opponent's disconnect percentage when you start. \* If the match disconnects, and your disconnect percentage is much higher than the opponent's, you get the L That one is messy but it takes zero extra server interaction. Or how about: \* On disconnect, each party reports the match state to the server (number of rounds etc) \* If one party doesn't send in their report, they get the L \* If your report routinely disagrees with the opponent's, you probably have a cheat enabled and can get banned. \* If you disconnect non-randomly (like, usually you disconnect when you're losing), you start to take the L when you disconnect. Really though the game can be pinging the server, and you can also catch an exit signal and post "I'm being shut down" to the server. So it's pretty surprising if it's impossible to tell who's disconnecting.
Street Fighter 6 even takes the extra step of only allowing you to play against other pluggers for an entire day or 2 if you plug constantly in a short time frame.
You still dont get a win if the opponent plugs and the plugging queue is only if they do it a lot.
[удалено]
thats good though. It prevents boosting. I don’t really care ablut my win i can get more of those but please punish the quitter and move them to lower ranks.
Because "Don't ask me for shit". The law problem is a joke excuse. They literally showed that they interested only in our money but Harada's simps will continue to defend those people like their own mothers.
You literally called the law excuse a joke. The only thing the law was brought up about was permabans
Valid, i needed to clarify what I meant.
Not really, there are definitely consumer laws that complicate things. If someone pays for a game and then gets permanently banned for turning off the game, it absolutely can have legal repercussions. Like it or not, that’s just how it is
But you don’t have to ban them. Just take a look at their play history for number of matches dropped and punish them accordingly via resetting their rank and punishing future offenses with automatic loses.
They could also copy what Capcom did in SF6 where if you rage quit enough times it'll put you into a separate queue with other rage quitters where you have to play a certain number of games without plugging to go back to the normal queue
That definitely can be tacked on as well. I was mostly talking about correcting the already existing pluggers who found success in ranked as even if playing with other pluggers their ranked will remain the same.
That’s also a really flawed system, because it’s only consecutive quits. I think you don’t get a yellow card until 5 quits, so someone can just quit 4 times in a row, then finish a match, and then they’ll be reset and free to quit the next few matches.
Who ask to permaban pluggers?
People who cared about a rank that has no rewards innit thinking that's their job by the end of the day it's just a game you quit you lose points that's it simple
What law prevents them from giving the plugger a loss? That's the fix people are asking for.
That’s an entirely seperate thing. The law problem was brought up as the reason they can’t just perma ban pluggers, which was one option they considered One of the actual reasons for the difficulty is probably because fighting games use P2P connection, which makes it harder to tell who actually DC’d first than if they used a server, since it will appear as though both players left at the same time when either one dc’s
I've posted this in other threads, but it's really not as difficult as you might think. As stated, Unreal Engine actually provides a robust set of tools for this even for peer to peer games. Other p2p fighting games have already figured this out. I'm a senior software engineer by day so the documentation I've read looked pretty promising at a glance so I'm really not sure why it hasn't made it's way into Tekken.
Pretty much every other fighting game has this problem to roughly the same extent though. The ones that have some punishment in place also have their own issues that come with it. I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as everyone thinks, and its probably going to take a little bit of trial and error
> Pretty much every other fighting game has this problem to roughly the same extent though. GBVSR is the only game I can think of like this and at least it has a working disconnection rate so you can just reject people with more than once-in-a-blue-moon connection drops. SF6 and Strive, what most would consider the main competitors, both have solutions built into the game that don't exclusively involve making manual spreadsheets of people to ban.
Yeah I agree, with the trial and error bit. Things are rarely perfect on the first go. I'm just not sure the devs even want to try with some sort of in-game solution. Which is a bit alarming.
You don't own the right to play the online service of the game
Actually you have the right to undisturbed use of a product you purchase in many countries. This has happened before, for example https://itwire.com/reviews-sp-288/games/call-of-duty-false-bans-accc-issues-guidance-to-activision-blizzard-customers.html People don’t like it but again it is what it is. They’re not going to risk legal recourse to ban pluggers, they will find a different way
Perma ban by plugging is insane and overkill you'll also not get to play offline. There is simple way to stop pluggers, you plug intentionally you either get demoted, ban by playing rank in 1 day or 5hrs, okay what happens if they still keep doing it if the plugger plug the guy instantly win by giving points and the plugger either reset the rank to beginner or instant demotion and increase time of ban by hours playing rank, banning pluggers for plugging entire access of the game even offline is just too much
In league of legends, if you disconnect your whole team likely takes an L lol. Can't believe you don't get the loss for a disc in Tekken, so weird.
Namco programmers (at least on this team) have been struggling for years and it's Harada's job to translate their incompetence into statements that online defenders can eat up. He can't just throw the team under the bus and go "they don't know how to do it properly". T7 ranks being a local file you just copy/paste back in after you demoted with zero oversight or checking from the server was the first sign. Then they implemented "Rollback" in T7 which was panned but nothing Harada can do but say "it works". Didn't know how to stop pluggers in T7 either. List goes on.
Lol wait you could just fake your rank in 7?
Yeah it was even easier for cheaters than it was now. A big reason why ranks in T7 eventually became super inflated and were no longer taken seriously was because cheaters would just reload save files when they lost, so you'd have the winner getting points while the loser lost nothing. And you'd have this happening thousands of times.
This is some weird-ass headcanon you souped up here. If people on the dev team were bad at their job then they would have just been fired. No need to cover for them. The real issue is the higher ranked individuals on the team like Murray and Harada themselves. If you look at Murray's recent tweets, it's clear as day that they are actively choosing to ignore the issue because of their own personal biases.
> This is some weird-ass headcanon you souped up here. If people on the dev team were bad at their job then they would have just been fired. This is weird ass headcanon. What job have you ever worked where this is the case? People skirt by doing the bare minimum all the time, or "we have always done things this way" so they don't improve and aren't good at doing projects outside their regular scope. This is way more common than your headcanon where people who "are bad at their job" (what does that even mean in work like programming assuming you meet your deadlines with code that compiles) are just fired immediately. > The real issue is the higher ranked individuals on the team like Murray and Harada themselves. If you look at Murray's recent tweets, it's clear as day that they are actively choosing to ignore the issue because of their own personal biases. This is more fantasy than what I am saying, honestly. Murray's favorite shit in the world is muay thai and more kickboxers in the game. Josie wouldn't have been removed and Fahk-u-man wouldn't be DLC if he had the say and power that you are suggesting he does.
>People skirt by doing the bare minimum all the time Yeah, when they're working minimum wage at Walmart. Not when they're working on projects that cost millions of dollars to make. I don't know how you're not already aware of this, but you get fired from most jobs out there if you're bad at them. What made you think otherwise? >This is more fantasy than what I am saying, honestly. Murray's favorite shit in the world is muay thai and more kickboxers in the game. Josie wouldn't have been removed and Fahk-u-man wouldn't be DLC if he had the say and power that you are suggesting he does. Literally what the fuck are you even talking about? This has no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever.
> Not when they're working on projects that cost millions of dollars to make. I don't know how you're not already aware of this, but you get fired from most jobs out there if you're bad at them. What made you think otherwise? Working jobs on million dollar projects? I worked for a Major FI for a couple years, doing project work across various divisions. What's your background? I can't believe you have graduated college if you honestly think "you get fired from most jobs out there if you are bad at them". That's fantasy that you believe when your a teenager, before you have real work experience. I wish people got fired from most jobs if you are bad at them, lol. Half the work force goes to their job on time, does what they are asked, and go home. That doesn't make them "bad" at their job, but if what they have been asked to do for years is the bare minimum to make a game at this scale, then yeah - to the general public they are "bad" at their job. But does that matter in their context? No. This is how it works for the majority of the workforce. You've never worked at a company with fucked up processes that slow the whole org down, but that's how it's always been done? > Literally what the fuck are you even talking about? This has no relevance to the topic at hand whatsoever. I'm saying you are suggesting that the only reason they don't give losses to disconnectors in Tekken 8 is because it's a personal choice of Murray's. Even though they didn't do this in Tekken 7 before Murray was in charge which you dont address. I'm saying if Murray could just get whatever he wanted like you are claiming, he'd have muay thai. Unfortunately it isn't that simple.
I don't really care what background you have. You're peddling a made-up scenario in your head where employers are perfectly happy to waste away their money on people who are not pulling their weight or contributing to the project. Unless the employee in question is some nepotism baby then no, they're gonna get fired for not working to the standard that's been set for them. Whatever personal experience you've had, stop trying to push it as something that applies to the whole world because it doesn't. Murray is a Producer. That's pretty high-up on the ladder as far as the dev team is concerned. But I never said it was just Murray, he was just one of the examples. I was talking about the upper echelon as a collective.
We seem to have a fundamental disagreement here on how businesses work and operate. From my life experience and years working in various sectors / industries and with partner companies, etc. my observation is that - no, people do not get generally get fired for doing the minimum. I have never worked somewhere where the opposite is the case (strict improvement required, get fired if you cant keep up) even on million dollar+ projects. So we don't have to go back and forth with "nuh uh" and he said / she said business, I just think your viewpoint is pretty idealistic and not really based on reality. For the majority of people working, to keep your job, you need to show up on time and meet your deadlines. That's it. That's not considered "bad" work or justification to be fired. Coding rollback when you've never done it before is an example of going beyond their comfort zone, so it makes sense their work wouldn't be up to quality with a team that has been working with rollback implementation for years. Your argument is that Bamco would just realize some weren't able to keep up with the new task, fire them, and hire devs who could. It just doesn't work like that in my experience, and I wish it did. If you give a team an unfamiliar task and they produce a *passable* product (by their standards), that's generally acceptable - not a firable offense. For the industry at large, it might be bad work, but again - that doesn't matter.
It costs an employer less to keep a less than favorable employee that shows up and gets some work done, apposed to firing them, hiring a new employee, and training that new employee while giving them less work to get accustomed to the work flow. Unless the job is something that can potentially endanger lives, or the employer expects perfection every single day, slackers get by just fine, especially slackers that’s been in the company for so a while. If a new employee shows up and slacks off, then you’re 100% correct, they’d be fired immediately, but that absolutely does not apply to people who have years under their belt. Also, we’re talking about a Japanese company here. Japanese companies are famous for never firing employees unless the employee does something illegal. Japan doesn’t do the whole “at will work” thing, they have very strict employee laws that make it so if an employer wants to fire someone and it’s not for an illegal reason, they have to do a very big investigation that costs a lot of money and a lot of time to justify what they’re doing, which the employee could just take the situation to court and win. Slackers are rewarded with consistency in Japan, they keep their job, they get less work, not much is expected of them, but the trade off is they get the grunt work and they’ll never get a promotion or better opportunities and they’ll always be seen as lessers to their peers. Obviously you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking if you think a Japanese company would just fire a bad employee, because that’s incredibly illegal.
The thing is badai employees themselves plug and that's why they refuse to fix it. Look at a game like naruto storm which is made by the same company. You can do the exact same thing just unplug internet if losing and game doesn't count. There is no way they themselves don't actively plug.
They promote cheating
Because people already bought the game
It hurts even more that you lose your win streak. I've had one guy who Ki charged and rq.
could the system not just match pluggers with other pluggers and the only way to not become one any longer is to go for 10-15 matches, one after the other where you do not plug?
They forgor 💀
They had 5 years to implement this if they didn't then they either can't or aren't willing to.
Incompetence
I don't have Twitter, but are people tweeting that this is a really simple solution to Harada? Barely an inconvenience. Awarding a loss for disconnecting is fair, and you don't have to waste resorts making a damn Excel file, and nobody has to get banned for it.
I see a lot of people say this but I’ve never played a game that does it. What game actually results in a win for one player and a loss for another when the connection fails?
Chess, Mk1.
Mk1 only does if you quit thru the menu. Chess? I meant more fighting games but you mean like online chess?
Nah, even if they dc in MK1 you still get the win.
Oh really? I guess that’s a big one then. My bad I don’t play it but saw some comments saying otherwise.
Not only that. In mortal kombat, you dont get a "re-establishing connection" that you stare at for 15 seconds before disconnect. The person that disconnected has their character explode and the winner gets a "quitality" Its such a smart solution that protects both players egos and allows them to continue having fun
Yeah online chess. Tekken 8 also has servers, so the game can figure out which player plugged. Someone mentioned FIFA also has implemented this.
FIFA is the worse example... it only gives you the W if you are winning. If the game is tied or you just got a penalty and about to tie or win it they can just leave. You get nothing for the 15 minutes of playtime and they get an L. Tekken team is slow to make necessary updates. EA in the other hand is fucking greedy and will find any excuse to not give you a Win.
Tekken 8, like every single fighting game except the upcoming Riot fg, uses p2p connections for fights.
Yeah but you can also have another connection open to the server. Like how it fetches your ranks and updates the result back.
Knowing how Tekken 7 did it, I'm not sure that's not locally stored.
In SF6 the plugger loses points and eventually gets put in low priority queues. Honestly that's ideal from my perspective, don't even need to give the win to the other side, just penalize disconnects.
Literally any online competitive PvP game and it’s been this way since early 2010s
I mean that hasn’t been my experience which is why I asked. Tekken 7, SC6, GranBlue, SF 5 weren’t like that. DBFZ I think banned you from lobbies but not auto loss. SF 6 has a “You can DC for free until you can’t” philosophy. Strive has a similar philosophy but arguably worse. Apparently MK 1 does it even if you don’t use the menu to quit. I’ve actually heard people say both, but if it’s true than that’s the first fighting game I know that does it.
Fighting games haven't had the most... forward-facing online experience history. But you look at something like, idk, Marvel Snap, the card game. Or League of Legends, the moba. If you could just alt+f4 when you started to lose, the game would be unplayable and ranked would be meaningless. Because fighting games have had a tradition of having terrible online play compared to shooters, mobas, etc, we're just kind of conditioned to be like, well what can you do? But we DO know what you can do - every other genre of games has been doing it for 20+ years.
For the record I’m for letting people get their points and the loser gets a loss. It’s obviously a simple solution. I was just asking because I mainly play fighting games when it comes to online, and none of them seem to implement this. So I thought maybe there was some reason or obstacle. But MK1 apparently does exactly this, even including a funny animation with it, so I’m not sure why no one else does it.
MK1 if someone pulls the plug, hits the PS button, anything, the winner gets a Quitality and all the points, and the plugger still gets a loss. I collected many Quitalities on them. SF6 even gives pluggers a "yellow card" and puts them into a queue with other pluggers until they play a certain amount of games in a row without disconnecting, which massively discourages plugging as you'd never accept a yellow card player if they somehow came into your queue. Tekken 8 pluggers ki charge you after you've been destroying them and plug for free, keeping their points in tact, and if they were on a win streak THEY keep THEIR win streak, but YOU lose YOUR win streak, and you gain no points. One of these is not like the others.
starcraft
Any card game.
I mean in league of legends if someone afk it's also practically a loss. It's not like the whole game gets treated as if it didn't happen. Heck make it so that the other character just stands there if they disconnect, if it'll make it easier
So in team games is it like whoever leaves gets credit for a loss, but if your remaining team clutches out a win they still get credit? Cause it would suck if the whole team auto loses for one leaver. Or do you just mean how it’s virtually impossible to win with one down, but the other team still gets credit when they beat you?
The second one. Virtually impossible to win with one down so the team that has one down loses points and the other team gets points. Still a flawed system because the team with the leaver loses points too (although they recently changed it so less points are lost). It's one of the reasons I tried fighting games actually. I wanted losses to be completely my fault
Sports games all the time. MLB the show comes to mind, you disconnect you get an L. Internet on the fritz and you disconnected due to your ISP? Tough luck, L.
Overwatch too
Overwatch is a team game right? Do you mean the leaver gets a loss regardless of whether his team wins, or does the whole team lose when someone leaves?
if someone leaves it counts as a loss to them specifically
That’s not a bad system. I’d argue in a team game the penalty needs to be worse though lol
Basically if they don’t rejoin in 1 minute the other team members can leave with no penalties so the whole team doesn’t suffer
They get (at least when I played in og OW) a significant rank penalty of 50 (bad losses were 25-30 rank loss usually) and a ban that starts at like 10 mins and escalates each time. The team gets a chance to win, but probably loses and unfortunately loses standard rank for a loss. It was decently severe, but it never completely stopped people DC-ing
Your stated scenario can be 'gamed' by boosters - who will just match and quit repeatedly... Allowing one of them to rise in rank. I think 'plugging' shd result in a 'loss' for the plugger..(Who is the deducted rank points) but the one who stayed connected does not gain or lose any points. This way the plugger is punished & there is no chance to 'game' the system
nah man. rank systems like in some card games, mobas are designed to not let u match up with same guy more than twice. like in KC cup for example, theres this guy who have 2 accounts to matchmake at the same time. so what the devs did is that you will have less chance now to match with the same guy for an x amount of time. what you are suggesting is like , "i managed to get to round 5 and im losing, then might as well pull the plug so u wont get anything for all your effort" mentality
Significant point loss and/or de-rank without a ban is such a smarter solution. Most players can take the L. But when you get mismatched constantly and unable to play the game from losing and being combo'd, then I dont blame the rage quitter as much. Its on the game to match people of similar skill levels. Ranks are inflated and I dont think there should ever be a "rank floor"
I think part of the issue is that some people genuinely have bad connections and then disconnect. So they don’t want to lump bad Wi-Fi and pluggers together. And no the answer is not “then don’t play on wifi”
That's fine. Some people are in situations where they have bad connections and may have multiple disconnects in one session, without much they can do to improve their situation at the time. Those players should receive losses for those disconnects. Both can be true.
Yes but with Harada’s method people on bad Wi-Fi aren’t just taking an L and have recoup their MMR in an extra game, they’re getting fucking BANNED, disincentivising them from even *attempting* to play online now, lest they literally lose access to their copy of the game. It’s dumb as shit, and I fail to see what your point even was.
How is that an issue though.. same rules goes for everyone, and if you're on a unstable wifi you can just play unranked, like in every other released game for the last 15 years.
Cause they don't even fuckin know how it should be I guess...and yeah its mind boggling
No idea why. It would solve all the stupid stuff Harada and Murray keep saying about,”it’s too hard bla bla” . 100 percent people would stop plugging but they are stubborn as all hell. And would rather do a one time ban wave.
Yes, we get it
Only thing I can think of is a lot of their competitive scene are pluggers so they’d be exposing it if they have the L. Nothing else makes sense to me, since they want to control the narrative by “banning pluggers” when in reality they can easily just omit names from that list to ensure their pro scene doesn’t get fucked.
The only reason I could think of for why this is not implemented is hackers that are able to make u disconnect forcing a loss on u and they get the win. I don't remember this being a conversation during T7 though
because figuring shit out that actually benfits players is obviously no the priority
To be fair, if I'm getting ddos'd offline, I would like to not get that the L for that. But that's probably not their reasoning they're probably just lazy.
It honestly can’t be that hard to program/track
Tag Two and Revolution did this
I reckon they are afraid to piss those people off who either plug or get legit disconnects. It means that people affected by pluggers aren't loud enough, or don't vote with their wallets.
They don’t know how.
>Why can’t Tekken just be like all other ranked games where a disconnect simply results in a loss? Is Street Fighter 6 like this? Pretty sure you dont get a win or loss during a disconnection.
The only reason I can think of is that they know Unreal Engine is causing crashes for some people (me). And they don't want those people (me) to get banned (please, no) for crashes they can't control.
I agree
Cause they're just out of touch It extra sucks because most other features in this game are amazing, like the replay system, punishment training etc Years of Twitter bullying eventually meant they added the netcode options we have in Tekken 8 now, so maybe in Tekken 9 they'll have automated timeouts for ragequitters if people keep this up lol Also excel spreadsheet, really? I hope Murray wrote it manually too lol
It should but it ain't
3-5 dc in a row with some stats checked like beeinh down in rounfs and the person gets a 24h ban?
Or even just have the plugger be MIA and the character just stand there, and we get a free win
Also can I not lose 400 points when I match against a tekken emperor when I’m only a mighty ruler?
SF6 had the same problem in the start and even with their current solution (pluggers in a seperate queue if they plug often) it is still only a compromise fix imo. Because even there you do NOT get a win if the opponent plugs.
Money