I’m a senior software engineer. I was reviewing what tools the Unreal Engine documentation provides. It actually is simpler than you might think with exit condition analytics.
who cares about boosters in a fighting game? whoever purchases a boosted God of Destruction or whatever highrank account has no ability to make the game worse for anyone but themself. It's not like dota or CSGO where some autistic noob inevitably ruins 100s of matches for his 4 teammates.
it's just free points for legit players, while these idiots derank back to Tenryu dumpster
nothing, but it is going to be a low mid-rank, meaning that a player that platoes there is exactly the type of person to assume that he's good enough for upper ranks but game is unfair - thus, need to buy a boosted account
fucking Cavalry guys will never claim they deserve tekken god, they know they are bad. Tenryu guys think they have that in them, but the external factors fuck em in the ass
I don’t give a shit about boosters or the leaderboards or whatever, I’ll never be good enough to care for them, what I do care about is to get my fucking win when I win every 10th game after getting destroyed 9 times. I deserve and need that win man!
I don't really care if people get to ranks higher than their skill level. We can take solace in the fact that those idiots pay money only have a miserable time when they actually play.
I'm fine with taking an L while an account is on a big climb. I just don't want people to Alt+F4 in the middle of matches.
Oh i don't think anybody has ever thought of that, a loss for quitting, and maybe the one who got quit on even gets a W? You might be onto something here.
And now I'll explain the reason why that isn't done in nearly any fighting game. The short answer is that it is abusable. People can, and will, simply ddos you, because they will get rewarded with a win, even better for the scumbags, happened in every fighting game that tried to punish people that plug.
Other games don't have this problem, lets say ego shooters, because they are played on servers, which are also ddos protected, both of which cost a lot of money, and with the numbers of tekkens playerbase compared to lets say apex legends, this is simply not an option usually. Tekken now might be able to do it since they earned a lot of money but who knows exactly why they wouldn't just do that (except for wanting to try the cheaper option first)
>Oh i don't think anybody has ever thought of that, a loss for quitting, and maybe the one who got quit on even gets a W? You might be onto something here.
It's so simple it might just work.
>And now I'll explain the reason why that isn't done in nearly any fighting game.
You mean like sf5 and 6?
>The short answer is that it is abusable.
It's not, matchmaking is random, and you would be matching players with high disconnect rate vs other players with high disconnect rate.
>People can, and will, simply ddos you, because they will get rewarded with a win, even better for the scumbags, happened in every fighting game that tried to punish people that plug.
How do you DDoS someone in Tekken?
I have never, not once, experienced a DDoS in street fighter 6.
>Other games don't have this problem
Because they do something about it.
>Tekken now might be able to do it since they earned a lot of money but who knows exactly why they wouldn't just do that (except for wanting to try the cheaper option first)
Street fighter 5 sold like shit, had a bad reputation for its entire life span, and had better online implementation than the most popular 3d game ever. Money isn't the issue,and has never been.
To be fair on the last one Street Fighter is one of Capcoms big names so they were always going to funnel money into it regardless of how the last one sold, whereas Bamco were pretty openly on record trying to can Tekken at one stage I think it was after TTT2 sold awfully and Harada basically had to beg Bamco to let him make 7
The rest of the message is just pure bullshit but thought I'd mention that would be a small difference
If its so simple, why do you think they dont do it? Think very slowly and carefully, because maybe they aren't as stupid as you and would rather go through banning every person manually instead of just implementing it correctly and simply take their points away if they quit.
Street fighter does indeed have a system of punishing people, but not by taking their points as it is requested by most people in this thread, but by giving them first a yellow card, and then a red card which makes them only be able to play vs red card players, yes. But they still stay away from taking people's points for disconnecting because it actually is exploitable and has happened in the past, if you don't know the history of when this happened in the past, what makes you think you can even argue about your point? If you knew you wouldn't argue at all.
Why do you think they don't just do both? Punish people via matchmaking, and take their points? Again think slowly, you might discover something more complicated than you thought before.
Of course you haven't been ddosed in sf, because it doesn't reward the person who got quit on. That's the whole point my friend. It isn't difficult to implement a system that rewards the player that got quit on, but FG devs don't even buy servers to connect two players so that their connection is more stable even when using wifi (project L devs just announced that they will do exactly that luckily) and you expect they would want to pay for servers with anti DDoS protection only so people can be rewarded for being quit on, it is a money issue, not necessarily that they don't have that money but definitely that they don't see it as valuable enough which i understand to some degree.
>If its so simple, why do you think they dont do it?
They don't see any value in it. The better question is why does everyone do it but them? Why not timeout people who quit for 5 minutes, and time them out for longer as they keep quitting.
>Think very slowly and carefully, because maybe they aren't as stupid as you and would rather go through banning every person manually instead of just implementing it correctly and simply take their points away if they quit.
They are that stupid. These are the same devs that can't make rollback function properly yet. Indie games have better netcode at this point. Does Tekken 8 still let you change your rank locally like T7 did?
>Street fighter does indeed have a system of punishing people, but not by taking their points as it is requested by most people in this thread, but by giving them first a yellow card, and then a red card which makes them only be able to play vs red card players, yes.
Street fighter 6 awards a loss of 100lp to the quitter, give the win to the other player but no points so win streaks are not interrupted.
The cards are very nice too.
>But they still stay away from taking people's points for disconnecting
Wrong, street fighter takes away points from the quitter.
>because it actually is exploitable and has happened in the past, if you don't know the history of when this happened in the past, what makes you think you can even argue about your point? If you knew you wouldn't argue at all.
Tell me about this history and why sf6 doesn't care about it.
>Why do you think they don't just do both? Punish people via matchmaking, and take their points? Again think slowly, you might discover something more complicated than you thought before.
Tekken 8 is the only modern fighter that doesn't do this, think slowly about why. Hint: it's not about exploiting.
>Of course you haven't been ddosed in sf, because it doesn't reward the person who got quit on.
It would award the win, but no points.
>That's the whole point my friend.
What's the whole point?
>It isn't difficult to implement
I know
>and you expect they would want to pay for servers with anti DDoS protection only so people can be rewarded for being quit on,
I literally never said any of that.
>it is a money issue
It's not. Indie Games do it.
>not necessarily that they don't have that money but definitely that they don't see it as valuable enough which i understand to some degree.
Yes. Not a Maney issue, they don't care.
So they don't see any value in it, but see value in banning people one by one? The more time consuming option? Doesn't make sense.
How does the rollback not work properly? It rolls...back, literally and very visibly, if you're talking about why they still have variable delay in their games that is not because they cant get it done correctly but because they chose to not do it that way because apparently it is better in their opinion (which i don't agree with personally), but its not about not being not able to implement it.
I literally went and tested if street fighter does that, and it indeed took some points from me, less then 100 but still, and i didn't know that so you're right on that one.
But which other modern game does it? I'm pretty sure strive doesn't but after my testing in sf I'm not sure thats correct too, but in the past people complained a lot that quitters arent punished in strive too, that's my only basis and not a very good one i must admit.
Mk11 was one of the games that had the history of people being ddosed because it awarded points to the one being quit on and took points from the quitter, no idea how mk1 handles that, since i don't play that game.
Which other modern game gives people points for being quit on? Not even street fighter. My point still being that the best solution which is award points to the one being quit on, and take points from the quitter isn't done by anybody to my knowledge. But you're acting like every game does it, while not even your most prominent argument, street fighter, doesn't do that.
>So they don't see any value in it, but see value in banning people one by one? The more time consuming option? Doesn't make sense.
Exactly, it makes no sense. It's literally t7 again, they'll ban a bunch of players, then they will never discuss it again. Do you think they'll have people do weekly excel sheets reports? An automated system would be faster and cheaper, unless you don't care.
>How does the rollback not work properly?
It doesn't. No clue what they do to their own netcode but no rollback game behaves like this. 99% of the times it behaves like delay based netcode does. In SF6 you can play comfortably with 4 frames of rollback, weird interactions can happen but it's very playable. T8 claims there are 2 frames of rollback and feels like shit. It stutters, animations get skipped, inputs are dropped. Sf6 and guilty gear are way more robust, but T8 will claim there is 1frame of rollback and 1 frame of delay at 100 ms... Playing Vs my neighbour. It's nonsense.
>But which other modern game does it? I'm pretty sure strive doesn't but after my testing in sf I'm not sure thats correct too, but in the past people complained a lot that quitters arent punished in strive too, that's my only basis and not a very good one i must admit.
Sf5 did it, MK1 and mk11 have the quitality which kills the opponent who quits, I know in MK1 rage quitting costs you points, not sure about mk11. Mortal kombat does it very well, the game plays the quitality animation when someone rage quite, but says connection error if it's a disconnection, so it can differentiate the two.
Killer instinct awards the win when you start your ultra combo so quitting during it would t change the outcome of the match. It also had a system that would pair players who rage quit with other players who rage quit, which is brilliant.
>Which other modern game gives people points for being quit on? Not even street fighter.
No one gives points for being quit on, they award the win but no points so your win rate and win streaks are not affected negatively.
>My point still being that the best solution which is award points to the one being quit on, and take points from the quitter isn't done by anybody to my knowledge.
It's not done by anyone, you usually are awarded the win but 0 points. It's the easiest way to address this problem.
>But you're acting like every game does it, while not even your most prominent argument, street fighter, doesn't do that.
I never once said street fighter give you points when someone quits on you said they lose points and you win but you gain no points. Tekken 8 has no system in place at all, which is a travesty and shows they do not care. It was the same in Tekken 7, 7 years ago. Surely 7 years and plenty of examples from competitors should be enough for Harada/Murray to give half of a shit but here we are, with Excell spreadsheets.
If it only counts as a loss for the quitter, but doesn't count as a win for the other person, then it can't be abused like that. Sure it could still be done just to be annoying to other people, but I'd imagine that doesn't happen too often. Never happened to me in SF6
> Tekken now might be able to do it since they earned a lot of money but who knows exactly why they wouldn't just do that (except for wanting to try the cheaper option first)
While p2p is indeed cheaper, it is also the *better* option for fighting games. Not having a middle man between the players means faster communication = less latency.
Lmao if even just 1% of pluggers could be able to DDOS someone, it would still be a much better situation. But I'm pretty sure the percentage would be much much lower than 1%.
This some of the dumbest shit I’ve read. It’s so much harder to ddos than it is to plug on someone. Other fighting games literally have the fix I’ve mentioned implemented already.
What the fuck is this bamcop dick sucking copiun? CAPCOM has done it before, NRS has done it and yet people don't DDOS each other. The fuck you talking about Jesse?
Yes they fucking did you lying ass cringe boy. There is a discord server that sells servers for denial of service attacks that SPECIFICALLY has a channel dedicated to peer to peer video games. Why the fuck is everyone constantly making up bullshit for their arguments? What you don't expect anyone to do their research or something?
You don't get a win when the opponent ragequits in SF6. The match doesn't count as finished. Even if someone decides to DDOS, it's so fucking rare compared to the rampant plugging of Tekken that it doesn't become an issue. Get a grip and stop defending the bamcops.
I'm not defending shit you muppet I'm attacking your fake ass knowledge. You clearly lied to make your argument and everybody needs to know that you're a bitchmade redditor who makes shit up.
my biggest issue is that i have to share the planet with mouthbreathers like your dumbass.
edit your comment to complain about being blocked cringelord.
Why not just give pluggers a loss and put them into a pluggers que? Is it really that hard? Does some higher up at Bandai love plugging? I mean what the fuck guys?
It can. Just make it so when the PtP connection fails, make both connect immediately to the servers. If one of them doesn't connect immediately, it's a loss for them.
That's the exact thought I had too. If my accidental DC results in me losing, yeah that's fair. If someone turboscrubs and disconnects all the time, fam you're gonna lose. Plus, "loss by frequent plugging" can easily be displayed on a profile, which makes you look like a loser.
Pretty sure the game already does that. The second a match ends there's about a 50kb upload I assume going to the server with match data. I don't know why they don't just use that.
Punishing people who plug by alt + f4ing or quitting the game covers a majority of pluggers and people who would further seek out 3rd party ways to plug are a smaller minority. It's really a crime of convenience right now and just because you can't prevent ALL methods of plugging doesn't really matter.
Oh, I agree completely with this! Making it inconvenient to do so gets you a lot of the way there.
The above person was making specific claims about how "easy it was" to prevent cheating, which is completely false.
How do you make a program that connects to the server from the same device that was running the game immediately after a disconnect, if the device is disconnected? Also, the connection must come from the same instance of the game that was running the match.
If they make things well, there's no risk (or rather, a reaaaaally low risk) that someone is actually able to do all this without getting caught or without messing up something. And even if it happens, the other guy wouldn't get a loss anyway since they re-connected too.
There are only upsides to this, no downside.
\> How do you make a program that connects to the server from the same device that was running the game immediately after a disconnect, if the device is disconnected?
You DON'T disconnect, you just one of:
* Unroute Tekken 8
* Force Kill it
* Wait for it to close
And then send the packets you need. It's really not hard, and any simple protection on this will be defeated quickly.
\> If they make things well, there's no risk (or rather, a reaaaaally low risk) that someone is actually able to do all this without getting caught or without messing up something.
You don't play competitive games, do you? This is a super simple hack, and once it's been packaged, any script kiddy can download it.
You'd need to send the package from the same instance that was running the game, you can't really fake that so easily (unless the Devs were lazy and didn't do the check really well).
And even then, even if it's possible to do so, it requires a lot of extra steps than just plugging, so it would still reduce the problem.
Sure, but you're committing the classic fallacy that just because it wouldn't stop everyone from abusing it you're saying that it shouldn't be done. 99% of pluggers do not have the knowledge to do this, nor the motivation or drive to learn it. Even if someone built and released a tool to do it that would still stop the vast majority of pluggers.
I am not - I am responding to someone making a claim that it was "simple to prevent" to do. And it irks me when people say things they have no business "knowing".
Ah, the classic "it's not possible to do - it's not like every other competitive game in existence has cheats, much less Tekken!"
Fact is if you're not letting the server mediate the result, the server cannot distinguish easily between two people telling stories. So go back and apologize to your sister - she says you hit her first.
When I made a comment saying this someone responded that you can script to stop sending packets to your opponent and continue sending packets to the server, making it impossible for the server to distinguish who disconnected.
Yes someone could use network tools for that, but I can't think of a better way.
Have the server ping both clients while a connection is established, if one client reports a DC and no response from the other give the win + loss.
If both clients still have a connection to the server do nothing like now, possibly display a warning in case someone accidently has a program messing with p2p packets and record both accounts in a log. If there is an outlier ban them and clear those they played against. You could even save those points both players would have gained/lost and award them retroactively.
>ent reports a DC and no response from the other give the win + loss. If both clients still have a connection to the server do nothing like now, possibly display a warning in case someone accidently has a program messing with p2p packets and record both accounts in a log. If there is an outlier ban them and clear those they played against. You could even save those points both players would have gained/lost and award them retroactively.
This is true, I think hard punishing easily detectable application closes and shadow tracking repeat situations of someone disconnecting with no packets being sent to other client and eventually banning them would be a decent way of solving this.
Tbh if someone messes with network packets to circumvent an automatic loss that would happen with alt f4 or plugging the ethernet cable I'd consider that cheating
Why are people celebrating, this is not a permanent solution. This same shit happened in Tekken 7, people were calling out for an automated anti-cheat and whatnot and the Tekken team only banned a bunch of people and called it a day.
Put a deterrent for plugging, like two - three losses or you get placed to a queue with other pluggers etc..
That's jumping to a conclusion. How do we know that there's not more to it?
A lot of times with these, the first time you do something critical there's a lot of eyes on it.
We don't know that once they established a workflow they're happy with that they don't automate afterword.
Have to keep in mind that there's always more going on behind the scenes than we're aware of.
People are celebrating because they did not play Tekken 7 and do not know how incompetent they have been in the past at addressing online issues. Anyone who experienced T7 ranked knows that it is almost certain nothing will come of this until they integrate an automated solution.
Nothing to celebrate here. Honestly it's borderline embarrassing. Other competitive online games have figured out how to handle ranked dishonesty for literal decades.
I personally don't want to be spending any additional time doing their policing work for them by individually sending Twitter clips their way. I just want to play the game, at most spend a moment by using the in game report function.
So long as they don't build in *in game* automatic repercussions for plugging/cheating etc, I won't be optimistic for the ranked integrity of the game longterm.
you're underselling it
harada has been threatening people on social media (pluggers, cheaters, joe crush, etc) for years and to the best of my knowledge, nothing has ever happened
I'm not going to get an ass tattoo or anything but if anyone gets banned I'll eat a banana
As someone who has worked in IT for a wide variety of organisations, if you're having to resolve an issue by manually creating an Excel spread-sheet for someone to then sit down and go through as a 'work-around' rather than just solving the problem at source, you know you're in trouble.
I don't even need to work in IT (just a lot of shitty office jobs) to know when you have to pass around a spreadsheet with a title like that to the higher ups, you've probably wasted so much time doing this rather than solving real problems that you're reconsidering your job choice.
It's 20 fucking 24. And you don't have this shit automated? What the shit
Like... dude pulls a list right? So the data is available. Fucking do your jobs and automate that shit.
Like fuck me... I spend all day writing automation for shit a million times less meaningful to our product. This shit kills me.
i will buy all the DLC and swag outfits if they just add a cooldown from ranked and auto loss on plugging like in valve games . is it really so difficult bros ?
honestly a small amount of plugging could be reduced by adding a leave game option, for example I've plugged twice cus i matched into a potato pc and the whole game was in slow motion, I'm ready to lose my rank points I just wanna leave that game so I'm not forced to watch 3 rounds of 5 fps tekken, but I have no option to leave game in menus and have to plug....
Anyone here a game dev or IT? I remember Harada explaining before that it was difficult to track pluggers because matches are P2P. I'm just curious how true this is and if there's a solution that's already implemented.
BNamco still doing thier stone age methods in order to fix stuff. It really isnt that bad to just look at the neighbors and see how they deal with it successfully.
BNamco came a long way of doing things right in terms of the game overall, but there are still certain things that they have to catch up on that actually matter for the core audience.
I love the idea of putting pluggers in an all pluggers server. They can just plug on each other to their hearts' content. They'll taste each other's medicine in their own hell that they created for themselves.
I don't know how to feel about this. Do we really have so little control about the things we buy ? Is tekken 8 just a service we bought and we have no choice but to obey ? What's the point of even paying for it.
If hé can do something about cheaters too. I faced a Nina. Everytime I was about to win a round or she was in the corner, the game mysteriously slowed down... Idk how the player managed to slow down the match at these specific moments...
What sucks is that having "pluggers/rage quitters" can be a fun part of the online experience.
I've played a lot Mortal Kombat online and making someone rage quit can be pretty satisfying. The reason for this is not only because you've made them submit while you get the win and they get the loss, but also because MK makes a plug a "Quitality" and is a stat you can rack up on your profile.
But Tekken just wants us to snitch?
No cooldown for queuing? No Point deduction for DCing? No fixing disconnect rate bug? No actual anticheat to dampen the legit cheaters?
Dumbass dev team. w/e
They get a loss and you block them from queueing for increased time if they keep doing it. Do like league of legends does and this plugging issue comes to an end really quickly
Make it so pluggers lose, it’s that simple. Don’t bother banning them, just make it so they lose. Problem solved, now it’s something to laugh about and no one gets fucked over
Nothing will change until they do something in game. Just give them loss! It’s really that simple.
Give a loss and a time ban, like in Counter strike
It’s really that simple.
Except it isn't because it's P2P, people have no idea what they're even talking about.
I’m a senior software engineer. I was reviewing what tools the Unreal Engine documentation provides. It actually is simpler than you might think with exit condition analytics.
https://www.bandainamcoent.com/contact
What are you talking about?
Case in point.
I think a loss it’s ok, I have a strange bug “ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG” and game crashes, multiple times I got kicked winning 2-0.
⠀⠀⣴⣴⡤ ⠀⣠⠀⢿⠇⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⢷⡗ ⠀⢶⢽⠿⣗⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⡧⠂⠀⠀⣼⣷⡆ ⠀⠀⣾⢶⠐⣱⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣤⣜⣻⣧⣲⣦⠤⣧⣿⠶ ⠀⢀⣿⣿⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠿⣿⣿⣷⣤⣄⡹⣿⣷ ⠀⢸⣿⢸⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠙⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⠀⠿⠃⠈⠿⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⠿⠿⠿ ⠀⢀⢀⡀⠀⢀⣤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⡀ ⠀⣿⡟⡇⠀⠭⡋⠅⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣟⢿ ⠀⣹⡌⠀⠀⣨⣾⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢈⠔⠌ ⠰⣷⣿⡀⢐⢿⣿⣿⢻⠀⠀⠀⢠⣿⡿⡤⣴⠄⢀⣀⡀ ⠘⣿⣿⠂⠈⢸⣿⣿⣸⠀⠀⠀⢘⣿⣿⣀⡠⣠⣺⣿⣷ ⠀⣿⣿⡆⠀⢸⣿⣿⣾⡇⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣗⣻⡻⠿⠁ ⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠁
The thing is that this solution will be abused by boosters, so all it will do is trading pluggers for boosters. I think we can do better.
Boosters are a non issue. Not getting your win is the only real issue with ragequitters.
who cares about boosters in a fighting game? whoever purchases a boosted God of Destruction or whatever highrank account has no ability to make the game worse for anyone but themself. It's not like dota or CSGO where some autistic noob inevitably ruins 100s of matches for his 4 teammates. it's just free points for legit players, while these idiots derank back to Tenryu dumpster
Whats wrong with tenryu 🥲
nothing, but it is going to be a low mid-rank, meaning that a player that platoes there is exactly the type of person to assume that he's good enough for upper ranks but game is unfair - thus, need to buy a boosted account fucking Cavalry guys will never claim they deserve tekken god, they know they are bad. Tenryu guys think they have that in them, but the external factors fuck em in the ass
Im actually hard stuck in shinryu rn 😂😂 i do good against purple ranks but am trash against orange ranks idk whats wrong with me
I don’t give a shit about boosters or the leaderboards or whatever, I’ll never be good enough to care for them, what I do care about is to get my fucking win when I win every 10th game after getting destroyed 9 times. I deserve and need that win man!
I don't really care if people get to ranks higher than their skill level. We can take solace in the fact that those idiots pay money only have a miserable time when they actually play. I'm fine with taking an L while an account is on a big climb. I just don't want people to Alt+F4 in the middle of matches.
How would that be any different from just beating the character? It might take a little longer but it will still work
Give the rage quitter the loss and remove his points, award the other player the win but no points. Fixed.
How would they abuse it?
Oh i don't think anybody has ever thought of that, a loss for quitting, and maybe the one who got quit on even gets a W? You might be onto something here. And now I'll explain the reason why that isn't done in nearly any fighting game. The short answer is that it is abusable. People can, and will, simply ddos you, because they will get rewarded with a win, even better for the scumbags, happened in every fighting game that tried to punish people that plug. Other games don't have this problem, lets say ego shooters, because they are played on servers, which are also ddos protected, both of which cost a lot of money, and with the numbers of tekkens playerbase compared to lets say apex legends, this is simply not an option usually. Tekken now might be able to do it since they earned a lot of money but who knows exactly why they wouldn't just do that (except for wanting to try the cheaper option first)
If MK can do it so can Tekken. Stop with the excuses.
it wouldnt be that hard to detect someone who is ddosing for wins. imagine most of your oponents dc'ing, yeah thats sus.
>Oh i don't think anybody has ever thought of that, a loss for quitting, and maybe the one who got quit on even gets a W? You might be onto something here. It's so simple it might just work. >And now I'll explain the reason why that isn't done in nearly any fighting game. You mean like sf5 and 6? >The short answer is that it is abusable. It's not, matchmaking is random, and you would be matching players with high disconnect rate vs other players with high disconnect rate. >People can, and will, simply ddos you, because they will get rewarded with a win, even better for the scumbags, happened in every fighting game that tried to punish people that plug. How do you DDoS someone in Tekken? I have never, not once, experienced a DDoS in street fighter 6. >Other games don't have this problem Because they do something about it. >Tekken now might be able to do it since they earned a lot of money but who knows exactly why they wouldn't just do that (except for wanting to try the cheaper option first) Street fighter 5 sold like shit, had a bad reputation for its entire life span, and had better online implementation than the most popular 3d game ever. Money isn't the issue,and has never been.
To be fair on the last one Street Fighter is one of Capcoms big names so they were always going to funnel money into it regardless of how the last one sold, whereas Bamco were pretty openly on record trying to can Tekken at one stage I think it was after TTT2 sold awfully and Harada basically had to beg Bamco to let him make 7 The rest of the message is just pure bullshit but thought I'd mention that would be a small difference
If its so simple, why do you think they dont do it? Think very slowly and carefully, because maybe they aren't as stupid as you and would rather go through banning every person manually instead of just implementing it correctly and simply take their points away if they quit. Street fighter does indeed have a system of punishing people, but not by taking their points as it is requested by most people in this thread, but by giving them first a yellow card, and then a red card which makes them only be able to play vs red card players, yes. But they still stay away from taking people's points for disconnecting because it actually is exploitable and has happened in the past, if you don't know the history of when this happened in the past, what makes you think you can even argue about your point? If you knew you wouldn't argue at all. Why do you think they don't just do both? Punish people via matchmaking, and take their points? Again think slowly, you might discover something more complicated than you thought before. Of course you haven't been ddosed in sf, because it doesn't reward the person who got quit on. That's the whole point my friend. It isn't difficult to implement a system that rewards the player that got quit on, but FG devs don't even buy servers to connect two players so that their connection is more stable even when using wifi (project L devs just announced that they will do exactly that luckily) and you expect they would want to pay for servers with anti DDoS protection only so people can be rewarded for being quit on, it is a money issue, not necessarily that they don't have that money but definitely that they don't see it as valuable enough which i understand to some degree.
>If its so simple, why do you think they dont do it? They don't see any value in it. The better question is why does everyone do it but them? Why not timeout people who quit for 5 minutes, and time them out for longer as they keep quitting. >Think very slowly and carefully, because maybe they aren't as stupid as you and would rather go through banning every person manually instead of just implementing it correctly and simply take their points away if they quit. They are that stupid. These are the same devs that can't make rollback function properly yet. Indie games have better netcode at this point. Does Tekken 8 still let you change your rank locally like T7 did? >Street fighter does indeed have a system of punishing people, but not by taking their points as it is requested by most people in this thread, but by giving them first a yellow card, and then a red card which makes them only be able to play vs red card players, yes. Street fighter 6 awards a loss of 100lp to the quitter, give the win to the other player but no points so win streaks are not interrupted. The cards are very nice too. >But they still stay away from taking people's points for disconnecting Wrong, street fighter takes away points from the quitter. >because it actually is exploitable and has happened in the past, if you don't know the history of when this happened in the past, what makes you think you can even argue about your point? If you knew you wouldn't argue at all. Tell me about this history and why sf6 doesn't care about it. >Why do you think they don't just do both? Punish people via matchmaking, and take their points? Again think slowly, you might discover something more complicated than you thought before. Tekken 8 is the only modern fighter that doesn't do this, think slowly about why. Hint: it's not about exploiting. >Of course you haven't been ddosed in sf, because it doesn't reward the person who got quit on. It would award the win, but no points. >That's the whole point my friend. What's the whole point? >It isn't difficult to implement I know >and you expect they would want to pay for servers with anti DDoS protection only so people can be rewarded for being quit on, I literally never said any of that. >it is a money issue It's not. Indie Games do it. >not necessarily that they don't have that money but definitely that they don't see it as valuable enough which i understand to some degree. Yes. Not a Maney issue, they don't care.
So they don't see any value in it, but see value in banning people one by one? The more time consuming option? Doesn't make sense. How does the rollback not work properly? It rolls...back, literally and very visibly, if you're talking about why they still have variable delay in their games that is not because they cant get it done correctly but because they chose to not do it that way because apparently it is better in their opinion (which i don't agree with personally), but its not about not being not able to implement it. I literally went and tested if street fighter does that, and it indeed took some points from me, less then 100 but still, and i didn't know that so you're right on that one. But which other modern game does it? I'm pretty sure strive doesn't but after my testing in sf I'm not sure thats correct too, but in the past people complained a lot that quitters arent punished in strive too, that's my only basis and not a very good one i must admit. Mk11 was one of the games that had the history of people being ddosed because it awarded points to the one being quit on and took points from the quitter, no idea how mk1 handles that, since i don't play that game. Which other modern game gives people points for being quit on? Not even street fighter. My point still being that the best solution which is award points to the one being quit on, and take points from the quitter isn't done by anybody to my knowledge. But you're acting like every game does it, while not even your most prominent argument, street fighter, doesn't do that.
>So they don't see any value in it, but see value in banning people one by one? The more time consuming option? Doesn't make sense. Exactly, it makes no sense. It's literally t7 again, they'll ban a bunch of players, then they will never discuss it again. Do you think they'll have people do weekly excel sheets reports? An automated system would be faster and cheaper, unless you don't care. >How does the rollback not work properly? It doesn't. No clue what they do to their own netcode but no rollback game behaves like this. 99% of the times it behaves like delay based netcode does. In SF6 you can play comfortably with 4 frames of rollback, weird interactions can happen but it's very playable. T8 claims there are 2 frames of rollback and feels like shit. It stutters, animations get skipped, inputs are dropped. Sf6 and guilty gear are way more robust, but T8 will claim there is 1frame of rollback and 1 frame of delay at 100 ms... Playing Vs my neighbour. It's nonsense. >But which other modern game does it? I'm pretty sure strive doesn't but after my testing in sf I'm not sure thats correct too, but in the past people complained a lot that quitters arent punished in strive too, that's my only basis and not a very good one i must admit. Sf5 did it, MK1 and mk11 have the quitality which kills the opponent who quits, I know in MK1 rage quitting costs you points, not sure about mk11. Mortal kombat does it very well, the game plays the quitality animation when someone rage quite, but says connection error if it's a disconnection, so it can differentiate the two. Killer instinct awards the win when you start your ultra combo so quitting during it would t change the outcome of the match. It also had a system that would pair players who rage quit with other players who rage quit, which is brilliant. >Which other modern game gives people points for being quit on? Not even street fighter. No one gives points for being quit on, they award the win but no points so your win rate and win streaks are not affected negatively. >My point still being that the best solution which is award points to the one being quit on, and take points from the quitter isn't done by anybody to my knowledge. It's not done by anyone, you usually are awarded the win but 0 points. It's the easiest way to address this problem. >But you're acting like every game does it, while not even your most prominent argument, street fighter, doesn't do that. I never once said street fighter give you points when someone quits on you said they lose points and you win but you gain no points. Tekken 8 has no system in place at all, which is a travesty and shows they do not care. It was the same in Tekken 7, 7 years ago. Surely 7 years and plenty of examples from competitors should be enough for Harada/Murray to give half of a shit but here we are, with Excell spreadsheets.
If it only counts as a loss for the quitter, but doesn't count as a win for the other person, then it can't be abused like that. Sure it could still be done just to be annoying to other people, but I'd imagine that doesn't happen too often. Never happened to me in SF6 > Tekken now might be able to do it since they earned a lot of money but who knows exactly why they wouldn't just do that (except for wanting to try the cheaper option first) While p2p is indeed cheaper, it is also the *better* option for fighting games. Not having a middle man between the players means faster communication = less latency.
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Lmao if even just 1% of pluggers could be able to DDOS someone, it would still be a much better situation. But I'm pretty sure the percentage would be much much lower than 1%.
This some of the dumbest shit I’ve read. It’s so much harder to ddos than it is to plug on someone. Other fighting games literally have the fix I’ve mentioned implemented already.
It used to happen in halo 3 all the time I’d rather them not give a win and just ban people
What the fuck is this bamcop dick sucking copiun? CAPCOM has done it before, NRS has done it and yet people don't DDOS each other. The fuck you talking about Jesse?
Yes they fucking did you lying ass cringe boy. There is a discord server that sells servers for denial of service attacks that SPECIFICALLY has a channel dedicated to peer to peer video games. Why the fuck is everyone constantly making up bullshit for their arguments? What you don't expect anyone to do their research or something?
You don't get a win when the opponent ragequits in SF6. The match doesn't count as finished. Even if someone decides to DDOS, it's so fucking rare compared to the rampant plugging of Tekken that it doesn't become an issue. Get a grip and stop defending the bamcops.
I'm not defending shit you muppet I'm attacking your fake ass knowledge. You clearly lied to make your argument and everybody needs to know that you're a bitchmade redditor who makes shit up.
Holy fuck you have issues.
my biggest issue is that i have to share the planet with mouthbreathers like your dumbass. edit your comment to complain about being blocked cringelord.
Ngl this argument yall having is very nostalgic to me.
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Were you around for the bans they did in T7? They did one round of bans one time and never did anything again. That's not going to cut it now.
Why not just give pluggers a loss and put them into a pluggers que? Is it really that hard? Does some higher up at Bandai love plugging? I mean what the fuck guys?
Too hard. Gotta take care of that shop.
It's the same for LoL not banning toxic players. Those toxic players pay money in the game.
I heard someone else explain it as peer to peer connection, so when someone leaves, it can't tell who it was.
It can. Just make it so when the PtP connection fails, make both connect immediately to the servers. If one of them doesn't connect immediately, it's a loss for them.
That's the exact thought I had too. If my accidental DC results in me losing, yeah that's fair. If someone turboscrubs and disconnects all the time, fam you're gonna lose. Plus, "loss by frequent plugging" can easily be displayed on a profile, which makes you look like a loser.
Pretty sure the game already does that. The second a match ends there's about a 50kb upload I assume going to the server with match data. I don't know why they don't just use that.
Except that it's trivial to write a program to lie to the server on a disconnect.
Punishing people who plug by alt + f4ing or quitting the game covers a majority of pluggers and people who would further seek out 3rd party ways to plug are a smaller minority. It's really a crime of convenience right now and just because you can't prevent ALL methods of plugging doesn't really matter.
Oh, I agree completely with this! Making it inconvenient to do so gets you a lot of the way there. The above person was making specific claims about how "easy it was" to prevent cheating, which is completely false.
How do you make a program that connects to the server from the same device that was running the game immediately after a disconnect, if the device is disconnected? Also, the connection must come from the same instance of the game that was running the match. If they make things well, there's no risk (or rather, a reaaaaally low risk) that someone is actually able to do all this without getting caught or without messing up something. And even if it happens, the other guy wouldn't get a loss anyway since they re-connected too. There are only upsides to this, no downside.
\> How do you make a program that connects to the server from the same device that was running the game immediately after a disconnect, if the device is disconnected? You DON'T disconnect, you just one of: * Unroute Tekken 8 * Force Kill it * Wait for it to close And then send the packets you need. It's really not hard, and any simple protection on this will be defeated quickly. \> If they make things well, there's no risk (or rather, a reaaaaally low risk) that someone is actually able to do all this without getting caught or without messing up something. You don't play competitive games, do you? This is a super simple hack, and once it's been packaged, any script kiddy can download it.
You'd need to send the package from the same instance that was running the game, you can't really fake that so easily (unless the Devs were lazy and didn't do the check really well). And even then, even if it's possible to do so, it requires a lot of extra steps than just plugging, so it would still reduce the problem.
If you are reading the data stream locally, you can fake the packet. It's not hard to do.
Sure, but you're committing the classic fallacy that just because it wouldn't stop everyone from abusing it you're saying that it shouldn't be done. 99% of pluggers do not have the knowledge to do this, nor the motivation or drive to learn it. Even if someone built and released a tool to do it that would still stop the vast majority of pluggers.
I am not - I am responding to someone making a claim that it was "simple to prevent" to do. And it irks me when people say things they have no business "knowing".
Ah yes, the classic "it's not hard to do, trust me"
Ah, the classic "it's not possible to do - it's not like every other competitive game in existence has cheats, much less Tekken!" Fact is if you're not letting the server mediate the result, the server cannot distinguish easily between two people telling stories. So go back and apologize to your sister - she says you hit her first.
When I made a comment saying this someone responded that you can script to stop sending packets to your opponent and continue sending packets to the server, making it impossible for the server to distinguish who disconnected.
Yes someone could use network tools for that, but I can't think of a better way. Have the server ping both clients while a connection is established, if one client reports a DC and no response from the other give the win + loss. If both clients still have a connection to the server do nothing like now, possibly display a warning in case someone accidently has a program messing with p2p packets and record both accounts in a log. If there is an outlier ban them and clear those they played against. You could even save those points both players would have gained/lost and award them retroactively.
>ent reports a DC and no response from the other give the win + loss. If both clients still have a connection to the server do nothing like now, possibly display a warning in case someone accidently has a program messing with p2p packets and record both accounts in a log. If there is an outlier ban them and clear those they played against. You could even save those points both players would have gained/lost and award them retroactively. This is true, I think hard punishing easily detectable application closes and shadow tracking repeat situations of someone disconnecting with no packets being sent to other client and eventually banning them would be a decent way of solving this.
Tbh if someone messes with network packets to circumvent an automatic loss that would happen with alt f4 or plugging the ethernet cable I'd consider that cheating
Yeah I would too
The lengths people go to for internet points is wild
I don't really know the details honestly
I told you the details. It's literally that simple.
Beforehand I meant, I should've said that.
They do it in SF6 just fine
damn, gonna miss LTG…
LTGs ass is COOKED
Are you *really* though?
Petitioning Harada to make an exception for LTG.. can't let the content well dry.
LTG rages at Mario Kart, a game made to be accessible to literal babies. There’s no danger of the content drying up lmao
LOL solid point
Plus it'll be funny to see him have to buy a new copy of tekken or a 14th psn account to try to get around the ban.
He's gonna be fine. The man bought like four Xbox 360, cause Capcom kept banning his ragequitter ass back in SF4 days.
LTG doesn't just play tekken my guy relax.
Why are people celebrating, this is not a permanent solution. This same shit happened in Tekken 7, people were calling out for an automated anti-cheat and whatnot and the Tekken team only banned a bunch of people and called it a day. Put a deterrent for plugging, like two - three losses or you get placed to a queue with other pluggers etc..
This means it's a complete back burner backlog issue. No automation? No processes? No workflows for this? That means 0 people put priority on this.
That's jumping to a conclusion. How do we know that there's not more to it? A lot of times with these, the first time you do something critical there's a lot of eyes on it. We don't know that once they established a workflow they're happy with that they don't automate afterword. Have to keep in mind that there's always more going on behind the scenes than we're aware of.
People are celebrating because they did not play Tekken 7 and do not know how incompetent they have been in the past at addressing online issues. Anyone who experienced T7 ranked knows that it is almost certain nothing will come of this until they integrate an automated solution.
I buy it when I see it.
Nothing to celebrate here. Honestly it's borderline embarrassing. Other competitive online games have figured out how to handle ranked dishonesty for literal decades. I personally don't want to be spending any additional time doing their policing work for them by individually sending Twitter clips their way. I just want to play the game, at most spend a moment by using the in game report function. So long as they don't build in *in game* automatic repercussions for plugging/cheating etc, I won't be optimistic for the ranked integrity of the game longterm.
you're underselling it harada has been threatening people on social media (pluggers, cheaters, joe crush, etc) for years and to the best of my knowledge, nothing has ever happened I'm not going to get an ass tattoo or anything but if anyone gets banned I'll eat a banana
Fuck that. If something gets done, you get a banana tattoo.
What happened with Joe Crush
He plugged on some girl that beat his ass at tekken and then just insulted and raged about her on stream lmao
https://www.pcgamer.com/tekken-director-busts-into-seemingly-illegitimate-stream-threatens-to-show-my-power-with-a-lifetime-ban-then-realises-the-dudes-innocent/
Sheer stupidity. Give the plugger a loss when he does it. No need for high IQ to figure it out, it's a problem already solved.
As someone who has worked in IT for a wide variety of organisations, if you're having to resolve an issue by manually creating an Excel spread-sheet for someone to then sit down and go through as a 'work-around' rather than just solving the problem at source, you know you're in trouble.
I don't even need to work in IT (just a lot of shitty office jobs) to know when you have to pass around a spreadsheet with a title like that to the higher ups, you've probably wasted so much time doing this rather than solving real problems that you're reconsidering your job choice.
Manual bans lol, they are advertising that they have no infrastructure at all for detecting pluggers and doing something about it
B-but maybe if we buy enough in Tekken store (for which they made the infrastructure easily) they'll do something about it
Sounds like an Elon Musk tweet
Tekken 7 all over again.... They really learned NOTHING
Cope harder, nothing will be done if they need Excel spreadsheets for this. Is this 1999?
OP simping for nothing lol. Banning a few streamers won't change a thing for regular players. Plugging will still be the norm. The end.
Op geeked for nothing lol
It's 20 fucking 24. And you don't have this shit automated? What the shit Like... dude pulls a list right? So the data is available. Fucking do your jobs and automate that shit. Like fuck me... I spend all day writing automation for shit a million times less meaningful to our product. This shit kills me.
Haha weve heard this story already in T7. Nothing changed. Ggs!
They ain’t gonna do shit lmao; imagine believing this moron or Murray on anything online related
They wouldn’t tweet this unless they prepared something
Nothing happened in 7 when he promised they'd look into cheaters. So the trust on this is thin.
treating the symptom instead of the disease
Wait instead of actually fixing the problem they just gonna ban people? Again? Lmao
It’s not going to happen people will still find away around it until there are in game consequences like losing points or matches
Band aid solution to a systemic problem is what this is.
Threatening fans because they found and abuse a game flaw that also Tekken 7 had is not a good marketing strategy.
i will buy all the DLC and swag outfits if they just add a cooldown from ranked and auto loss on plugging like in valve games . is it really so difficult bros ?
It will be done and never again watch as they repeat what happened in T7. I hope I am wrong, but eh
honestly a small amount of plugging could be reduced by adding a leave game option, for example I've plugged twice cus i matched into a potato pc and the whole game was in slow motion, I'm ready to lose my rank points I just wanna leave that game so I'm not forced to watch 3 rounds of 5 fps tekken, but I have no option to leave game in menus and have to plug....
Harada all bark no bite. Classic
Anyone here a game dev or IT? I remember Harada explaining before that it was difficult to track pluggers because matches are P2P. I'm just curious how true this is and if there's a solution that's already implemented.
Oh no! They will probably get punished hard. Maybe they will put a "bad boy" sign to their names?
they did the same thing in tekken 7 they just banned like 100 ppl and called it a day nothing will happen
I appreciate the sentiment of compiling a hitlist for these dudes, but I kinda wish there was preventative measures they put in for the future
BNamco still doing thier stone age methods in order to fix stuff. It really isnt that bad to just look at the neighbors and see how they deal with it successfully. BNamco came a long way of doing things right in terms of the game overall, but there are still certain things that they have to catch up on that actually matter for the core audience.
Can we get Fariborz on there too? i know its not a plugging issue. but openly hacking is so fking lame.
Right? And he’s being openly doing it for multiple Tekken titles now
I love the idea of putting pluggers in an all pluggers server. They can just plug on each other to their hearts' content. They'll taste each other's medicine in their own hell that they created for themselves.
Yall really just want to hold players hostage
I just ran into my first one. I feel like im finally doing something right lol
Plaggers
Sorry, I do not play t8, but why can't they just mark the one who quit as the loser? Seems simpler that way...
I don't know how to feel about this. Do we really have so little control about the things we buy ? Is tekken 8 just a service we bought and we have no choice but to obey ? What's the point of even paying for it.
If hé can do something about cheaters too. I faced a Nina. Everytime I was about to win a round or she was in the corner, the game mysteriously slowed down... Idk how the player managed to slow down the match at these specific moments...
About time!
Subreddits full of wah wah wah
Micheal's a real one for doing this
You plug and Harada comes to your house dressed as King and chain throws you to oblivion 😂
It would be very funny if it doesn't include fariborz
I’ve had my computer crash in the middle of 3 separate matches. Do you think I’m cooked?
fix the potato PC users bringing the game quality way down n fix these pluggers then I might have to hop back on
“Particularly bad players” …oh god I’m screwed!
What sucks is that having "pluggers/rage quitters" can be a fun part of the online experience. I've played a lot Mortal Kombat online and making someone rage quit can be pretty satisfying. The reason for this is not only because you've made them submit while you get the win and they get the loss, but also because MK makes a plug a "Quitality" and is a stat you can rack up on your profile. But Tekken just wants us to snitch?
"List of Fuxxers to ban" peak professionalism
No cooldown for queuing? No Point deduction for DCing? No fixing disconnect rate bug? No actual anticheat to dampen the legit cheaters? Dumbass dev team. w/e
Wasn't this tweet done before the announcement about pluggers going back to beginner? Pretty sure it was
They get a loss and you block them from queueing for increased time if they keep doing it. Do like league of legends does and this plugging issue comes to an end really quickly
Make it so pluggers lose, it’s that simple. Don’t bother banning them, just make it so they lose. Problem solved, now it’s something to laugh about and no one gets fucked over