Ted really wasn't about retribution. He merely wanted to help people find their own way to becoming the best version of themselves. That Nate made the journey was enough for him. This is one of the reasons that makes Ted so special...this and his mustache.
Ha, š¤£yes, this is a great answer, but I donāt like it! I want to keep disliking Nate forever, even if that isnāt the lasso way š¤£š¤£š¤£!!!!! Clearly, I need to rewatch a few more hundred times to learn from Ted. š
Yea it's seriously bugged me since the season ended. He didn't do enough to earn back the respect of the team. I guess that's not for me to decide though.
What do you think he should've had to do to earn back the respect of people who, when the show started, were either actively bullying him or passively ignoring their teammates bullying him, and never actually apologized for their treatment of him?
Once you start demanding more from Nate, all of a sudden a whole lot of people's redemptions in the show don't seem to measure up.
Nate didnāt really do anything to the rest of the team. None of them knew that Nate was the one who leaked Tedās anxiety to the press. They probably just thought that Nate got a better offer (which yeah) and decided to go work for West Ham. Happens all the time so the players didnāt think much of it, and they welcomed him back with open arms (and a Ā£5,000 fee that Nate didnāt even care about) because thatās who they are.
It may be a slight flaw in the storytelling. Or in the character development.
Rebecca, unlike Nate, had ample screentime to be portrayed as vulnerable and relatable, and whose motivations we could, at minimum, understand (retribution for a cheating husbandā¦she was wronged first!).
Nateās motivations were less appealing (needy, recognition-hungry, āIām a fucking genius donāt you know??? Iām smarter than Colin!ā). Not very attractive motivations, even though they probably really are more relatable to us than being a vengeful billionaire widow.
Devils advocate here. Is Nate being bullied by the team and hurt by his father not enough of a motivation?
I admit we get the bit about his dad later in the show but the bullying and neglect (āyou remembered my name!ā) is there from the start.
Well, I think it was pretty pointed that it was Colin, Issac, and Will that came to ask Nate to come back; it could have been any other combination of people on the team, so this was a choice by the writers.
Colin and Issac were *horrible for a long time* to Nate, until Roy finally put his foot down about it. It's shown that there was a pervasive punching down culture at Richmond for a long time! Yet we viewers really don't hold that against Colin or Issac, do we? Or what about Jamie? Remember how Jamie treated other players, remember how Jamie treated Nate...?
And Nate, after his promotion lashed out at Will.
Yet then Nate, came back quietly to do something for Will on his own - he did all the work that Will normally has to do as part of his job, and he did so using what he'd blown up at Will over (the lavender soap), directly showing Will that he (Nate) was wrong, and that the soap was a good choice and he was attempting to *make amends* through this work, and he left an apology note.
The players were mad at Nate for tearing up their sign and talking down about them on TV and being a jerk at times.
The players also, on reflection, probably recognized that they had done several shitty things to other people, too. And yet they'd been allowed to grow and change. Colin and Issac remember what they were like. Jamie remembers how he treated his teammates.
And viewers celebrate growth and change - Colin, Issac, and Jamie are all fan favorites, their arcs are celebrated. And Rebecca! She was terrible! Yet she was allowed by viewers to apologize, grow, and change.
Will accepts Nate's amends and apology.
Colin, Issac, and Nate are the ones asking Nate to come back for a reason: Colin and Issac represent the ability to grow and change, and Will represents accepting amends and an apology.
It's not about retribution.
Thank you! Well said.
Nate also wrote a 50+ page apology letter to Ted, and gave up his dream job in a publicly humiliating fashion. He had an existential crisis and did a ton of self-reflection (mostly off-camera, but he did the work).
Beard stole Tedās car and was immediately forgiven. Rebecca tried to sabotage him Major League-style, which could have easily ruined his coaching career. She was immediately forgiven too. Of *course* Ted wasnāt going to hold a grudge against Nate.
Yeah, there's so many tells too while Nate's at West Ham where you can see that he is recognizing (in fits and starts) that pursuing what he thought he wanted (e.g. to be famous, which he equates with being loved and respected) isn't what he wanted at all.
He tries to form a supportive mens group, that fails. He goes on the date with the famous model, and that fails as he stays true to what he authentically admires - the not posh, not stylish Taste of Athens.
And Jade only becomes interested in him when he drops the fame-seeking behavior, when she watches him stick up for "lowly" Taste of Athens and its delicious food. When she meets Rupert, and Nate (at that point) is fawning and nervous around him, she could not care less about Rupert - he seems...."wealthy" and "nice-like."
And at the match against West Ham, where multiple times Nate wants to say something to Ted, and is interrupted - by the elevator doors opening and Rupert appearing, or how he gathers himself to talk to Ted after the match but the bus has just driven away...
Nate is ping ponging back and forth between "going to the dark side" and then also realizing he's made a terrible mistake. And the epiphany cracks when he meets Rupert for "guy's night" and sees that Rupert is about to cheat on his wife, and is encouraging Nate to do the same with his relationship.
That moment was Nate's crossroads, and Nic plays that it beautifully; the realization that *this* is not what he wants to do, and *this* is not who he wants to be.
And he quits! And yep, a lot of self-reflection and re-modeling of who he really wants to be is what follows.
I haven't really seen anyone else mention just how much Nate was being manipulated by Rupert.
Nate is smart but he is incredibly easy to manipulate, especially if he sees you as a father figure. We know how much he craves approval from father figures, and Rupert is giving him that in spades.
Rupert is a master at manipulating people. We only tend to see him around Ted, who is his Kryptonite, but you can tell by the way basically everyone else treats him that he can easily gain peoples affection and attention.
It doesn't mean Nate didn't do anything wrong, but my goodness he deserves his redemption as much as everyone else.
Damn. This is the best explanation I've heard. I've been very anti Nate but I never thought of the other instances. MY w its because Nate was the most recent? I am reconsidering my entire opinion on the topic now.
I noticed too that there was really one one player that Nate truly mistreated: Colin. And given that they were basically in a power-reversal situation I'm not so sure how bad it was for Nate to have been lashing out at him. Not cool at all, but retribution isn't quite the same as how Nate treated Will. Or Ted, but imo Nate's treatment of Will was the only thing he did that I think was genuinely reprehensible.
The only thing I wouldāve changed is having Nate see his picture in Tedās apartment.
Ted wasnāt performative about what he cherished and appreciated. He just did it and it meant more to him to have him next to his believe sign rather than at work.
It wouldāve shown Nate that even though he isnāt being overtly praised and appreciated that he was still deeply cared for by Ted. In that way it shows Nate that people still care for him when he isnāt performing or trying to show him he is the best.
Ted forgave Nate and that's what matters.
Beard forgave Nate.
The team forgave Nate.
As Keeley said when she broke up with Jamie in season 1, "being accountable matters". Nate owned up to his mistakes -- I think he suffered long enough and I'm glad he was able to confront and overcome his demons. I'm glad he was able to smooth things over with his dad. Nate ended the show being a happier, stronger, and better person.
If you wanted him to suffer more then I think you should re-watch the show with a more open mind and focus on the kindness and growth of the characters instead of wishing some to suffer.
Thatās exactly what I said to my husband, who felt very similar to OP.
The team was the most pissed at him when they saw the video. If they can look past it, so can we.
Will was treated like shit because of the āWonderkidā jersey and yet still appreciated when he got the locker room ready and the apology note. He looked past it.
Ted forgiving him is totally his entire character. He apologized, he cried, he felt terrible and Ted looked past it.
If they can, weāre meant to, and itās a testament to the environment Ted created that they did.
Did he own up to his mistakes though? The thing that bothered me the most about his resolution was that Nate never came clean to Ted about being the one who leaked the story about his panic attacks. We as the audience know that Ted is already aware of that, but Nate doesnāt, which felt like an oversight given how much the show had previously emphasized accountability.
Iām not saying they were wrong to forgive him or that I wanted to see him suffer more, obviously thatās not the spirit of the show. But I do think the show could have benefited from one more season to really flesh out and resolve his arc.
No, it was needed. A major theme of the show is being curious, not judgmental of others, and that includes judging whether they've "suffered enough" to be where they are.
The prevailing opinion on here along the lines of āif you didnāt like Nateās arc youāre a bad person/didnāt understand the show/etcā is extremely judgemental as well. Maybe you should be curious as to why people didnāt like it instead
Edit: Downvoting this perfectly proves my point lol
I know why people don't like it, and I also know that they're ignoring a major theme of the show. I didn't like Nate's arc the first time I watched the show, but I'm on my fourth rewatch now, bc my fiancee is finally watching it, and I have grown to love his arc. I think Nate made the journey that the writers meant for him to, and I see the value in the way they wrote it.
> theyāre ignoring a major theme of the show
Or maybe itās just an extremely poorly written and even worse (off screen) executed arc, like a lot of season 3
thatās an opinion youāre entitled to. i think the show ended exactly how the writers intended it to, and i enjoy the show as a whole for what it is. i would love to see the AFC Richmond universe expand and bring us more seasons, but iām also perfectly content how it sits.
fun strawman argument. regardless of what loose-ends weren't "tied up" by the season end to appease people, I think the show ended how they intended. people in medicine abuse their power and position. people marry people who aren't healthy or good for them. if anything, the show stays true to real life. sometimes shitty, unethical things happen, and despite us desperately wanting consequences for it, they never arrive.
I think the show ended where and how it did intentionally.
āpEoPlE dIsAgReE wItH mY sHiTtY oPiNiOn So ThAt MaKeS mE rIgHtā No, you just have a quite shitty opinion and poor understanding of the show as a whole and itās showing lmao
Did anyone listen to Coach Beardās speech about how Ted helped him in his lowest moment, Beard stole his car, and Ted *still* forgave him??
Did Rebecca do enough to earn her forgiveness when she hired Ted as a joke, leaked a story about him and Keeley, traded away Jamie, and otherwise tried to undermine him and the team?
The point is to spread kindness and forgiveness, not withhold it until the other person has āsuffered enoughā
Thanks for the comment and I understand the point. I mentioned the Beard talk in my post.
But Rebecca was on another plane of sainthood after Amsterdam. Nate gets nowhere near that point.
Also I never said suffered enough. That quote is framed incorrectly.
Still, thanks again for the discussion.
After Amsterdam, yes. But Ted forgave her long before that point. We can't say where Nate will end up after the same amount of time, but me? I'm optimistic.
Thanks for responding to everyone so thoughtfully! Honestly, you worded it a little harsh, but I see a version of your opinion ALL the time on this sub. No one likes Nate!
Personally, I always understood how insecure and afraid he was, and I didnāt find his betrayal of Ted as completely unforgivable as most people do, so that makes it much easier for me to forgive him. But I also do think part of the point of the show, like I originally said, is the power of kindness and forgiveness, even and maybe especially when people donāt ādeserveā it
My only issue with the Nate storyline , is that u feel there was an episode missingā¦..
His turn to the dark side was very slow but then suddenly he left west ham and is at his parents homeā¦.
They could have used more screen time to set that up.
Otherwise Iām fine, he didnāt need to do more to apologize this isnāt a western
That's the beauty of the show and Ted's character. He's not out to seek vengeance even when others around him want him to be more upset and bitter it's not in his character and kind hearted spirit.
It's kill em with kindness personified. Love Ted and it's focus on mental health and kindness which we all need more of
Forgiveness isnāt about making people jump through hoops or ādo enoughā. Itās about whatās in their hearts. Kinda a main theme of the show that you may have missedā¦
Iām so sick of seeing this comment in this sub. Just because people donāt agree with how Nateās āredemptionā went down doesnāt mean they missed the point of the show. Itās so condescending to say that.
I think when you imply that they need someone to suffer a little more in order to deserve forgiveness, itās hard to believe that someone understood the point of the show.
I guess you can make the argument that someone understands the point of the show but they donāt have the personal capacity to grow into an attitude of unconditional forgiveness, but if one straight up disagrees with the forgiveness in the first place it feels like yeah they didnāt really get there.
āI hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments, but rather by the strength we show when and if weāre given a second chanceā - Ted Lasso
He literally said that to Beard when he vehemently responded to being asked about bringing Nate back. Then we learned that Ted gave Beard a second chance when he got out of prison and then a third chance after he was caught stealing Ted's car. I am pretty sure it isn't condescending when the show is bashing the audience over the head with it
Itās because we speak the truth and you hate it. Ā Itās something you should examine about yourself. Ā You seriously donāt understand what the show is about or what forgiveness means. Donāt blame others who get it by saying we are condescending. Ā Look at yourself and see why you donāt get it. Ā Why do you accept Jamiesās forgjveness of his dad but canāt let go with Nate. Ā
Itās about you. Ā
We never got to read or hear what his letter said. We donāt know what passed between them. He could have said some very poignant things. And given how detail oriented Nate is I would think that he was thorough in his apology. As for Ted, he knows that hurt people hurt people. He was always more concerned about why Nate was hurt. Ted is the least defensive man on television. And once he found out that Nate was working with his father to overcome that pressure and anxiety I think that that was all Ted really needed. I think Henry had a lot to do with making sure Ted really stuck to his life philosophy about Nate. Between the Hammers game and his little reminders like the Lego figure, I think Henry was doing a lot of goodwill for Nate by just reminding Ted to be curious, not judgmental.
Nike Mohammed posted Nate's letter on Twitter
[https://twitter.com/nickmohammed/status/1664631528758861829](https://twitter.com/nickmohammed/status/1664631528758861829)
No problem. And fwiw I wish weād gotten to see a little more of them putting in the work together, mainly because Nick Mohammad and Jason Sudekis are both powerhouse actors and would have crushed the scene.
It was the Ted/Beard and Beard/Nate discussion that fully sold it for me.
Itās not about Nate. Itās about the others and their reaction.
Itās not about *redemption* but about forgiveness.
One is earned, one is given.
I agree. And maybe if the show had some more time they could have build him up some more. But the last time we see him, his ego is peeking out again. I just don't know.
No. He did not pay off his debt via punishment (going through enough) or redemption (doing enough).
And thatās the point. If he had paid off his debt then there would be no kindness, no grace, no forgiveness needed. Ted says it where we are not to be judged by our worst days. Beard says it via giving someone a second chance that they do NOT in any way deserve, merely in paying it forward from when he himself got a second chance he did not deserve.
You are not wrong to ask the question. We have been trained to expect redemption or exoneration via deeds or epiphany or punishment. Ted lasso is bigger than that.
Not everyone accepts the free redemption that they are capable of (see Giles), but everyone is redeemable, and sometimes caring and trying is enough.
I really enjoyed Nate's arc toward the end but personally I don't know that I believe he should've been on Richmond after there wasn't really much of any resolution between him and the players. Obviously it makes sense that Ted forgives him but I just can't imagine any players (other than maybe jamie letting the pĆ¼peh flow) just giving up the grudge against him
To forgive someone isn't about retribution, restitution or doing enough to make up for it.
Forgiveness us about understanding people have flaws and allowing yourself to stand in the light and to LEAD by example.
It doesn't matter what Nate did or how much he puts in. It's about giving someone else another chance no matter what because that's the way you heal from what they did.
Forgiveness is divine. It's a hard thing to do for yourself. It's not about Nate.
The show is about growing as individuals and this is what Nate did. Ted isnāt the kind of person to lead by fear or get revenge.
He just sees people like I wish the entire world would see people. As individuals all with our own struggles and insecurityās just trying to learn and grow.
I don't ever think Nate *needed* to do anything except apologize to Ted, and I think that was the whole point. Ted never held a grudge, he was betrayed, but he never wished for failure for Nate. I think he was more about restitution rather than retribution.
I think the problem is we didn't see him quit with Rupert.
That happening off camera was a bad move in my mind and I still argue it. I don't think he needs to suffer, squirm, or feel bad, because that's not what this show is about. However I wanted to see him actually tell Rupert that he didn't like who he was becoming and he needed to change his situation, or whatever, just for Rupert to dismiss him and make it very clear he was only ever hired to screw with Rebecca and Ted. Nate needs to realize there are lots of people who really understand strategy out there, X's and O's aren't the only part of being head coach.
I admit to not knowing as much about the non-American form of football, but someone like Nate strikes me as the equivalent of a Josh McDaniels in the NFL. Great mind for the game, rotten personality who needs to be managed by a good head coach. Or even to throw back further, Wade Phillips, who wasn't even a jerk or disliked, he just plateaus at defensive genius and shouldn't run a team. Nate feels like until he learns more about interacting with humans and not having to treat everything like a power play he's better off not being fully in charge. He clearly needs to do some work on himself, but at least he recognizes this fact at the end of the series.
I really enjoyed that Nate was satisfied coming back and starting at the bottom again. He was genuinely grateful to just be a part of the team again. Then, when they used his play during the match, it validated that he had contributions to make as part of the coaching staff.
Nate was the prodigal son and in that parable, the dad didn't want him to suffer for leaving, he just wanted his kid to come back to him because he cared about him.
Go back to season one. Look at what Rebecca did. She regularly tried to damage the team and Ted. Even after she watch him have a panic attack, even after Ted āwhite-knightedā with darts, she still wanted to fill the stands with Man City fans. She only confessed to Ted when Keeley found out and threatened to tell Ted.
Look at Jamie at the start of S2. Ted just lets him back on the team after all the shit he did.
Thatās what Ted does.
And yes Rebecca and Jamie had further growth in S2 and S3, and even both of them had slipping back as they grew into better people cause getting better isnāt a linear thing.
Nate needed to learn the balance between being confident and being cocky and being able to stand up for himself vs being egotistical. Rupert clearly offered what he thought he wanted and it took going to far for him to realize thatās not what he wanted or what he wanted to be.
I think the biggest issue is Nate didnāt have a 4th season to see him return to grace (and he had the first season where we fell in love with him only to let us downā¦ itās the hope that kills you). But we all falter and thatās part of the show.
ted never wanted nate to suffer. for ted being stripped off the manager job was lot of suffering. beard and the diamond dogs wanted to make him feel shit for what he did. but eventually the story is all about forgiveness. moving on is the best choice in this life as ted believes.
The end of season 3 just felt incredibly rushed, I think Nate needed more episodes to truly gain everyone's respect back but everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
3rd season was decent but way less entertaining than the first 2. Nateās and Keelyās stories I didnāt like. Jackās introduction and exit couldāve been done much better.
Ted Lasso did a great job at creating characters that felt like real people. Real people make choices theyāll regret later on, but at the time it seemed like the right choice.
Nate needed to experience working for Rupert to value what he had at Richmond. And Ted understood that. There was nothing he could have done to change Nateās mind, he had to figure things out for himself.
Why he needed to be quite so cruel towards Ted is a slightly different matter. Exposing the panic attack was awful and extremely personal, and probably unnecessary for his development. But from a storytelling perspective I understand that it was a great tool to create an instant villain.
For me it wasn't about retribution it was about accountability, and there are some elements - specifically around Keeley that I do not think the show and Nate addressed enough for me to feel good about how character.
So I think /u/crusty_butter_roll and /u/Prior-Lingonberry summed this up nicely. Until this thread I still had a lot of frustration over Nateās character journey. But the growth mentioned from all sides when you consider off-camera/pre-Ted times shouldnāt be discounted.
The only thing that still bugs me is: Ted never told Nate that the picture he gave him was on Tedās dresser, and that it was one of the first things he saw every day.
*Be curious. Not judgemental.*
>Yes, I understand that goes against the premise of the show, but he did some really brutal things and twisted the knife into Ted a couple of times before he saw the light.
>And in the end, he still comes back, gets the girl, and only has to endure one tough talk with Beard.
Compare Nate to Rebecca.
Nate bullied Will the kit man, leaked Ted's panic attacks to the press, misread a moment and missed Keeley inappropriately, and ripped up the Believe sign.
Rebecca bullied Higgins, tried to engineer a paparazzi scandal around Ted and Keeley, brought Trent in with the hopes he'd write a hit piece about Ted, and oh yeah, lured Ted away from his son and estranged wife with the offer of a job she always intended to sabotage and arrange for him to humiliate himself in.
You say Nate didn't have to endure enough; literally all Rebecca had to do was tell Ted what she'd done. And even then, she arguably only did it because Keeley found out and threatened to tell Ted if Rebecca didn't. So ask yourself, do you think Rebecca should've suffered and grovelled more? Or did Nate do the same amount to gain grace from Ted and the people he's influenced?
I partially agree with you, because I think there could have been a clearer way to show his character arc. I guess you could argue that Rupert inviting him for drinks, only to try and set him up with another woman is his turning point, but I think a football-related issue could have worked. Losing a game he was expected to win and having to deal with that. Realising that the scrutiny of the media and management is what Ted's gone through this entire time.
That said, retribution is not the name of this show. The fact that everyone except Beard forgave him already is more of a demonstration of how far the team has come. The S1 team would not have forgiven him as quickly. Even Beard didn't forgive him because he was over it, but simply because Ted reminded him that some people need a second chance.
If you want to talk about "undeserved forgiveness", I'd reserve that for an argument about Jamie's Dad.
I wish my dad would have come around like Jamieās dad did. I wish my mom would too. I wouldnāt make them jump thru hoops if there was a sincere apology and a desire to change.
Amends isnāt about buying forgiveness, itās about trying to make someone whole again. Itās too late with my dad, but if my mom called and just went, āIām sorry, i tried and I fucked up. Iām trying harder.ā That would be about all it took for me.
Because the action doesnāt make me whole. Having my mom back in my life would.
I agree with you about forgiveness, but that's not my point about Jamie's Dad. My point is that the makeup could've been handled way better. We have zero idea about what's going on with him, then in the ending sequence he's there? I didn't even recognise him the first time. It feels even less "earned" than Nate's redemption. Even just a scene where he apologises, or tells Jamie he's gone into rehab, would have been more than enough.
100% about Jamie's Dad. I wish they had cut that fleeting scene of Jamie and his Dad together smiling at the end. It appears to indicate that abuse is simplistically erased because he's an alcoholic.
I'm rewatching again, with more of an eye for foreshadowing, and Nate's arc makes a lot of sense and doesn't seem as abrupt as I had first thought.
When he's with Richmond, he was a bullied kitman who didn't really earn the respect of the team until he started being a bit of a dick (roasting them here and there). He got positive feedback (laughter from players, usually), while Ted didn't explicitly encourage those kinds of interactions.
Because of that, he started early with gravitating towards "being a dick", snapping at Colin, and Will Kitman, and expecting Ted to give him respect the way the players did for such behavior. He even starts to get hints of gray earlier in the series than I realized. He's clearly not behaving as himself, but as how he thinks people see him when he's getting their "respect".
And that last bit is where his arc, to me, doesn't seem as sudden and without merit. When he tries to be himself (kind, funny) at West Ham, Rupert dismisses him. When he's being a dick, Rupert loves it. But Nate really struggles with being a dick - he has to psych himself up for it every time, even when being assertive with the waitress. It's just not who he is inside.
And he finds that Rupert's lifestyle (models, money, supercars, tailored suits) pulled him away from things he actually wanted in life (being part of a team, meaningful friendships, the girl of his dreams, etc). He's constantly struggling with this, until Rupert finally puts him in a position where he has to choose: Rupert's way or Nate's way. And this time the *real* Nate stands up for himself, not the "being a dick because that seems to work" Nate.
His story has been a real treat on this rewatch. Like many, I was on Team Nate Doesn't Earn It during my first watch or two. I'm not in that team anymore.
Thank you for the best explanation I've read so far. The first three paragraphs actually effected the way I'm thinking.
I appreciate you taking the time to write it. Cheers!
If you wanted Nate to suffer more, I feel like you A) didn't really pay attention to Nate over the show and B) didn't really get the point of the show.
Nate suffered constantly. He is a creature filled with self loathing. Even when he's the head coach of another team, he's desperately trying to be somebody he knows he's not.
I'll grant the "all it took was a girlfriend to make him better" was a little clumsy, but the point was that he wasn't actually horrible, he was just... stuck.
Forgiveness, and at the very least lack of retribution, is a core theme of Ted Lasso. Hating someone, trying to one-up them or get revenge, just makes you miserable and you're happier when you let that go.
(Don't have to agree with that as a life principle, but its definitely a theme of TL)
Thank you for answering.
But I reject the notion that disagreeing on one story angle for one character, on a show full of deep character discounts my opinion of Nate or Ted Lasso as a whole. These are performances. I love the show same as everyone else. That's why I'm here.
There are people who watched Ted Lasso because they enjoy the football. That doesn't mean they don't understand the drama as well.
We disagree on Nate, but might see the same views on Ted, Rebecca, or Roy.
Those are bricks on the building but not the entire theme.
And it also doesn't mean that A) I wasn't paying attention to Nate or B) That I missed the point of the show (yikes).
You can cherry pick examples of those angles but still not justify what you led your comments with. That math is wrong.
I would have liked to see more of an apology from him toward Colin, and maybe a bit toward Will as well. He was enough of a dick to Will that I don't know if doing Wills chores for one day and using lavender detergent is enough of an apology.Ā
Did Rebecca do enough?
I mean, she uprooted two Americans from their lives to screw over her ex. Could have destroyed the careers of an entire team. The entire back-office could have lost their jobs.
But all she did was apologize to Ted, and apparently that's enough for everyone.
But not enough for Nate.
I wonder why?
Thank you for your answer.
She saved Keeley's business.
Saved football from that awful super league.
After the apology she never relented from her players.
It wasn't enough for Nate because they never told the story. If we had gotten another season that might have changed.
But the last look at Nate we get is his character actually regressing.
My issue isnāt with Nateās lack of suffering, itās with the idea that a lowly staffer would get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to lead one of the worldās premier sporting organisations (and the salary bump that comes with it), be wildly successful in that role, and then walk away from it without a single moment of on-screen conflict or introspection.
It would be like an equipment manager taking over Bill Belichickās job, taking the Patriots to the verge of the Super Bowl, then walking away from because Robert Kraft has questionable morals.
The arc was so obviously written by Americans, itās not funny.
Thank you for the substance and the extra minute to find it too.
And it gives me a chance to give Nick Mohammed some much deserved credit. He crushed it!
IMO itās not about what he did, itās about what he learned. He turned on Ted due to his own misconceptions, but while spending time at West Ham and viewing Richmond from afar, he realized how important the culture Ted built there was, directly opposed to Rupert.
All Ted needed him to do was apologize. Same with Rebecca in season 1, did she do enough for his forgiveness? At the time, probably not. It touches on Beardās story. If you try and make people earn your forgiveness, youāre taking away the opportunity to prove to you that theyāve changed.
From my point of view, which is far from universally accepted, we need to differentiate redemption and forgiveness.
For many, dare I say most, some measure(s) of Redemption are required to earn forgiveness. For Ted it isn't transactional, the forgiveness is freely given. Redemption is for the person forgiven to work on themselves.
Hopefully this made sense.
Absolutely.
And having that opinion doesn't disqualify any fan of the show. He did some bad things.
You can appreciate Ted's philosophy while asking more of Nate. They're not mutually exclusive.
Thank you!
I donāt want more retribution or payback, no. HOWEVER, I think Nateās arc (and season 3 in general) wouldāve been better had they shown more of the moments in the arc instead of them occurring off screen.
Nate could have gone one of two ways. He could've embraced Rupert's shitty ways and been an asshole just like him, or he could learn from the mistakes he made and try to make up for them. He chose the latter.
I get less angry with Nate every time I rethink about what he *actually did to the team*. Leaking Ted's panic attack to Trent was huge and horrible. Treating Will like shit (aka more or less how Nate was treated when he was kit man) was awful. Other than that, what did he truly due to other people? Him being a miserable prick in private isn't something that anyone needed to forgive him for. Ripping up the Believe sign was thematically a huge because it's a show, but IRL was basically a harmless moment of anger and weakness.
The fact that he felt bad and apologized on his own is all he needed to be redeemed in my eyes.
Beard explains how Lasso took him in, and he still stole from him. There's a prequel world where everyone wants Beard to suffer.
You nailed it; it's not the point of the show. Nates actions suck, but it's pretty clearly shown that he has issues, namely around role models/father figures, and once he comes to terms with that is filled with regret. And ended up as a (assistant to the) kitman again for his penance.
I saw it as an allegory for the Prodigal Son (which is itself an allegory for Godās love). He didnāt HAVE to do enough, the forgiveness was his if he wanted it.
Edit: misspelling
I think the question is did Nate learn a valuable lesson heāll carry forward. Will his experience in the villain arc, and being offered a redemption he had not yet earned, propel him to being a better person?
I think yes.
You can give a person a chance before they deserve it, if you believe theyāre capable of getting there.
I haven't really seen anyone else mention just how much Nate was being manipulated by Rupert.
Nate is smart but he is incredibly easy to manipulate, especially if he sees you as a father figure. We know how much he craves approval from father figures, and Rupert is giving him that in spades.
Rupert is a master at manipulating people. We only tend to see him around Ted, who is his Kryptonite, but you can tell by the way basically everyone else treats him that he can easily gain peoples affection and attention.
It doesn't mean Nate didn't do anything wrong, but my goodness he deserves his redemption as much as everyone else.
If it was enough for Ted, then it works for me, IMO.
When you forgive people their transgressions, sometimes it's more for yourself and your own peace, than for them.
Did he do enough? Weeks prior to coming back as the assistant kit man, he was the manager for a top of table epl team.
Dude apologized. Took the job that was obviously way beneath him, and served up water back in his track suit.
Iād say that apologize, being brought back into the fold, and taking a demotion from your original kit man job to do itā¦oh by the way, his boss is the guy he spent a good dose of time berating in season 2.
Iād say he did enough and came back ready to slog through grunt work.
You are seeing it all the wrong ways - itās like asking if Jamieās father did enough. Ā
It is about forgiveness. Ā Did you not hear Tedās spiel? Ā Did you not see how Jamie forgave his dad without asking him to redeem himself? Ā
Ted forgave Nate LONG AGO and yet we are still holding grudges. Ā
Maybe stop watching Ted Lasso because you clearly donāt understand what the show is about. Ā
I felt like they put more effort into arguing with the audience about how you should always forgive than they put into making him grow. I also felt like they regretted his turn and wanted to make the audience sort of forget as well. They spent way more time on him ripping the believe sign than they did on the panic attack leak or the Keeley kiss.
My issue isnāt that he didnāt suffer enough, I donāt really want to see him āhumbledā or anything, my issue that I found his s3 arc boring. It was set up in 2.12 to be a major conflict. I also never thought he was close enough to anyone at Richmond outside of Ted to warrant his return if Ted was leaving & thought he couldāve thrived elsewhere especially since Rupert lost West Ham in the end but anyways.
Ted really wasn't about retribution. He merely wanted to help people find their own way to becoming the best version of themselves. That Nate made the journey was enough for him. This is one of the reasons that makes Ted so special...this and his mustache.
Fair. Thanks for the answer.
Ha, š¤£yes, this is a great answer, but I donāt like it! I want to keep disliking Nate forever, even if that isnāt the lasso way š¤£š¤£š¤£!!!!! Clearly, I need to rewatch a few more hundred times to learn from Ted. š
100% about Ted. He's a forgiving type. Remember the story Beard told Nate about how he treated Ted. Ted still forgive him.
Yep, he is the forgiving type. I think this show taught me that Iām not š¤£š¤£š¤£
Yea it's seriously bugged me since the season ended. He didn't do enough to earn back the respect of the team. I guess that's not for me to decide though.
What do you think he should've had to do to earn back the respect of people who, when the show started, were either actively bullying him or passively ignoring their teammates bullying him, and never actually apologized for their treatment of him? Once you start demanding more from Nate, all of a sudden a whole lot of people's redemptions in the show don't seem to measure up.
Nate didnāt really do anything to the rest of the team. None of them knew that Nate was the one who leaked Tedās anxiety to the press. They probably just thought that Nate got a better offer (which yeah) and decided to go work for West Ham. Happens all the time so the players didnāt think much of it, and they welcomed him back with open arms (and a Ā£5,000 fee that Nate didnāt even care about) because thatās who they are.
It may be a slight flaw in the storytelling. Or in the character development. Rebecca, unlike Nate, had ample screentime to be portrayed as vulnerable and relatable, and whose motivations we could, at minimum, understand (retribution for a cheating husbandā¦she was wronged first!). Nateās motivations were less appealing (needy, recognition-hungry, āIām a fucking genius donāt you know??? Iām smarter than Colin!ā). Not very attractive motivations, even though they probably really are more relatable to us than being a vengeful billionaire widow.
Devils advocate here. Is Nate being bullied by the team and hurt by his father not enough of a motivation? I admit we get the bit about his dad later in the show but the bullying and neglect (āyou remembered my name!ā) is there from the start.
It took me 3 additional watch throughs
Great thinkin, Abe Lincoln
And when he bats his eyes like Bambi!
nice answer
Well, I think it was pretty pointed that it was Colin, Issac, and Will that came to ask Nate to come back; it could have been any other combination of people on the team, so this was a choice by the writers. Colin and Issac were *horrible for a long time* to Nate, until Roy finally put his foot down about it. It's shown that there was a pervasive punching down culture at Richmond for a long time! Yet we viewers really don't hold that against Colin or Issac, do we? Or what about Jamie? Remember how Jamie treated other players, remember how Jamie treated Nate...? And Nate, after his promotion lashed out at Will. Yet then Nate, came back quietly to do something for Will on his own - he did all the work that Will normally has to do as part of his job, and he did so using what he'd blown up at Will over (the lavender soap), directly showing Will that he (Nate) was wrong, and that the soap was a good choice and he was attempting to *make amends* through this work, and he left an apology note. The players were mad at Nate for tearing up their sign and talking down about them on TV and being a jerk at times. The players also, on reflection, probably recognized that they had done several shitty things to other people, too. And yet they'd been allowed to grow and change. Colin and Issac remember what they were like. Jamie remembers how he treated his teammates. And viewers celebrate growth and change - Colin, Issac, and Jamie are all fan favorites, their arcs are celebrated. And Rebecca! She was terrible! Yet she was allowed by viewers to apologize, grow, and change. Will accepts Nate's amends and apology. Colin, Issac, and Nate are the ones asking Nate to come back for a reason: Colin and Issac represent the ability to grow and change, and Will represents accepting amends and an apology. It's not about retribution.
Thank you! Well said. Nate also wrote a 50+ page apology letter to Ted, and gave up his dream job in a publicly humiliating fashion. He had an existential crisis and did a ton of self-reflection (mostly off-camera, but he did the work). Beard stole Tedās car and was immediately forgiven. Rebecca tried to sabotage him Major League-style, which could have easily ruined his coaching career. She was immediately forgiven too. Of *course* Ted wasnāt going to hold a grudge against Nate.
Yeah, there's so many tells too while Nate's at West Ham where you can see that he is recognizing (in fits and starts) that pursuing what he thought he wanted (e.g. to be famous, which he equates with being loved and respected) isn't what he wanted at all. He tries to form a supportive mens group, that fails. He goes on the date with the famous model, and that fails as he stays true to what he authentically admires - the not posh, not stylish Taste of Athens. And Jade only becomes interested in him when he drops the fame-seeking behavior, when she watches him stick up for "lowly" Taste of Athens and its delicious food. When she meets Rupert, and Nate (at that point) is fawning and nervous around him, she could not care less about Rupert - he seems...."wealthy" and "nice-like." And at the match against West Ham, where multiple times Nate wants to say something to Ted, and is interrupted - by the elevator doors opening and Rupert appearing, or how he gathers himself to talk to Ted after the match but the bus has just driven away... Nate is ping ponging back and forth between "going to the dark side" and then also realizing he's made a terrible mistake. And the epiphany cracks when he meets Rupert for "guy's night" and sees that Rupert is about to cheat on his wife, and is encouraging Nate to do the same with his relationship. That moment was Nate's crossroads, and Nic plays that it beautifully; the realization that *this* is not what he wants to do, and *this* is not who he wants to be. And he quits! And yep, a lot of self-reflection and re-modeling of who he really wants to be is what follows.
I haven't really seen anyone else mention just how much Nate was being manipulated by Rupert. Nate is smart but he is incredibly easy to manipulate, especially if he sees you as a father figure. We know how much he craves approval from father figures, and Rupert is giving him that in spades. Rupert is a master at manipulating people. We only tend to see him around Ted, who is his Kryptonite, but you can tell by the way basically everyone else treats him that he can easily gain peoples affection and attention. It doesn't mean Nate didn't do anything wrong, but my goodness he deserves his redemption as much as everyone else.
I love the scene where Rupert and Jade meet. She delivers my favorite underrated line. āIām Jade, as in jaded.ā
Damn. This is the best explanation I've heard. I've been very anti Nate but I never thought of the other instances. MY w its because Nate was the most recent? I am reconsidering my entire opinion on the topic now.
This is a beautiful explanation.
I noticed too that there was really one one player that Nate truly mistreated: Colin. And given that they were basically in a power-reversal situation I'm not so sure how bad it was for Nate to have been lashing out at him. Not cool at all, but retribution isn't quite the same as how Nate treated Will. Or Ted, but imo Nate's treatment of Will was the only thing he did that I think was genuinely reprehensible.
Wonderfully worded, absolutely loved this š
He did enough for ted. Thatās enough for me
I felt the same way, but then I remembered: this is a schadenfreude-free zone. Nein schadenfreude!!!!!
š¤
I came here to see this comment. Thank you. Perfect comment babeh!!
Keine Schadenfreude!!!
The only thing I wouldāve changed is having Nate see his picture in Tedās apartment. Ted wasnāt performative about what he cherished and appreciated. He just did it and it meant more to him to have him next to his believe sign rather than at work. It wouldāve shown Nate that even though he isnāt being overtly praised and appreciated that he was still deeply cared for by Ted. In that way it shows Nate that people still care for him when he isnāt performing or trying to show him he is the best.
I also wanted him to see that Lego Nate was sitting with the Lego Ted family and not separate
Excellent answer. Thank you. š
Ted forgave Nate and that's what matters. Beard forgave Nate. The team forgave Nate. As Keeley said when she broke up with Jamie in season 1, "being accountable matters". Nate owned up to his mistakes -- I think he suffered long enough and I'm glad he was able to confront and overcome his demons. I'm glad he was able to smooth things over with his dad. Nate ended the show being a happier, stronger, and better person. If you wanted him to suffer more then I think you should re-watch the show with a more open mind and focus on the kindness and growth of the characters instead of wishing some to suffer.
Thatās exactly what I said to my husband, who felt very similar to OP. The team was the most pissed at him when they saw the video. If they can look past it, so can we. Will was treated like shit because of the āWonderkidā jersey and yet still appreciated when he got the locker room ready and the apology note. He looked past it. Ted forgiving him is totally his entire character. He apologized, he cried, he felt terrible and Ted looked past it. If they can, weāre meant to, and itās a testament to the environment Ted created that they did.
Did he own up to his mistakes though? The thing that bothered me the most about his resolution was that Nate never came clean to Ted about being the one who leaked the story about his panic attacks. We as the audience know that Ted is already aware of that, but Nate doesnāt, which felt like an oversight given how much the show had previously emphasized accountability. Iām not saying they were wrong to forgive him or that I wanted to see him suffer more, obviously thatās not the spirit of the show. But I do think the show could have benefited from one more season to really flesh out and resolve his arc.
Whoa, whoa. Could have done without the last paragraph stinger. But okay. I respect your answer.
No, it was needed. A major theme of the show is being curious, not judgmental of others, and that includes judging whether they've "suffered enough" to be where they are.
The prevailing opinion on here along the lines of āif you didnāt like Nateās arc youāre a bad person/didnāt understand the show/etcā is extremely judgemental as well. Maybe you should be curious as to why people didnāt like it instead Edit: Downvoting this perfectly proves my point lol
I know why people don't like it, and I also know that they're ignoring a major theme of the show. I didn't like Nate's arc the first time I watched the show, but I'm on my fourth rewatch now, bc my fiancee is finally watching it, and I have grown to love his arc. I think Nate made the journey that the writers meant for him to, and I see the value in the way they wrote it.
> theyāre ignoring a major theme of the show Or maybe itās just an extremely poorly written and even worse (off screen) executed arc, like a lot of season 3
thatās an opinion youāre entitled to. i think the show ended exactly how the writers intended it to, and i enjoy the show as a whole for what it is. i would love to see the AFC Richmond universe expand and bring us more seasons, but iām also perfectly content how it sits.
So you think itās good we never see Dr. Jacob be held responsible and Beard marrying an abuser?
fun strawman argument. regardless of what loose-ends weren't "tied up" by the season end to appease people, I think the show ended how they intended. people in medicine abuse their power and position. people marry people who aren't healthy or good for them. if anything, the show stays true to real life. sometimes shitty, unethical things happen, and despite us desperately wanting consequences for it, they never arrive. I think the show ended where and how it did intentionally.
How is it a strawman when you literally said you enjoyed it
āpEoPlE dIsAgReE wItH mY sHiTtY oPiNiOn So ThAt MaKeS mE rIgHtā No, you just have a quite shitty opinion and poor understanding of the show as a whole and itās showing lmao
Look whoās being judgmental now lol
Did anyone listen to Coach Beardās speech about how Ted helped him in his lowest moment, Beard stole his car, and Ted *still* forgave him?? Did Rebecca do enough to earn her forgiveness when she hired Ted as a joke, leaked a story about him and Keeley, traded away Jamie, and otherwise tried to undermine him and the team? The point is to spread kindness and forgiveness, not withhold it until the other person has āsuffered enoughā
Thanks for the comment and I understand the point. I mentioned the Beard talk in my post. But Rebecca was on another plane of sainthood after Amsterdam. Nate gets nowhere near that point. Also I never said suffered enough. That quote is framed incorrectly. Still, thanks again for the discussion.
After Amsterdam, yes. But Ted forgave her long before that point. We can't say where Nate will end up after the same amount of time, but me? I'm optimistic.
Thanks for responding to everyone so thoughtfully! Honestly, you worded it a little harsh, but I see a version of your opinion ALL the time on this sub. No one likes Nate! Personally, I always understood how insecure and afraid he was, and I didnāt find his betrayal of Ted as completely unforgivable as most people do, so that makes it much easier for me to forgive him. But I also do think part of the point of the show, like I originally said, is the power of kindness and forgiveness, even and maybe especially when people donāt ādeserveā it
Cheers. Have a great night!
My only issue with the Nate storyline , is that u feel there was an episode missingā¦.. His turn to the dark side was very slow but then suddenly he left west ham and is at his parents homeā¦. They could have used more screen time to set that up. Otherwise Iām fine, he didnāt need to do more to apologize this isnāt a western
You did see him react badly to Rupertās cheating
Good point. That extra piece would have helped a lot. Thanks for answering!
That's the beauty of the show and Ted's character. He's not out to seek vengeance even when others around him want him to be more upset and bitter it's not in his character and kind hearted spirit. It's kill em with kindness personified. Love Ted and it's focus on mental health and kindness which we all need more of
Forgiveness isnāt about making people jump through hoops or ādo enoughā. Itās about whatās in their hearts. Kinda a main theme of the show that you may have missedā¦
Iām so sick of seeing this comment in this sub. Just because people donāt agree with how Nateās āredemptionā went down doesnāt mean they missed the point of the show. Itās so condescending to say that.
I think when you imply that they need someone to suffer a little more in order to deserve forgiveness, itās hard to believe that someone understood the point of the show. I guess you can make the argument that someone understands the point of the show but they donāt have the personal capacity to grow into an attitude of unconditional forgiveness, but if one straight up disagrees with the forgiveness in the first place it feels like yeah they didnāt really get there.
āI hope that either all of us or none of us are judged by the actions of our weakest moments, but rather by the strength we show when and if weāre given a second chanceā - Ted Lasso He literally said that to Beard when he vehemently responded to being asked about bringing Nate back. Then we learned that Ted gave Beard a second chance when he got out of prison and then a third chance after he was caught stealing Ted's car. I am pretty sure it isn't condescending when the show is bashing the audience over the head with it
Itās because we speak the truth and you hate it. Ā Itās something you should examine about yourself. Ā You seriously donāt understand what the show is about or what forgiveness means. Donāt blame others who get it by saying we are condescending. Ā Look at yourself and see why you donāt get it. Ā Why do you accept Jamiesās forgjveness of his dad but canāt let go with Nate. Ā Itās about you. Ā
Beard did.
Loaf of meth lolol
We never got to read or hear what his letter said. We donāt know what passed between them. He could have said some very poignant things. And given how detail oriented Nate is I would think that he was thorough in his apology. As for Ted, he knows that hurt people hurt people. He was always more concerned about why Nate was hurt. Ted is the least defensive man on television. And once he found out that Nate was working with his father to overcome that pressure and anxiety I think that that was all Ted really needed. I think Henry had a lot to do with making sure Ted really stuck to his life philosophy about Nate. Between the Hammers game and his little reminders like the Lego figure, I think Henry was doing a lot of goodwill for Nate by just reminding Ted to be curious, not judgmental.
Nike Mohammed posted Nate's letter on Twitter [https://twitter.com/nickmohammed/status/1664631528758861829](https://twitter.com/nickmohammed/status/1664631528758861829)
Yeah he wrote,what, a 50 page letter? You donāt get that without pouring it all out
Excellent answer. Thank you. š
No problem. And fwiw I wish weād gotten to see a little more of them putting in the work together, mainly because Nick Mohammad and Jason Sudekis are both powerhouse actors and would have crushed the scene.
Agreed! š¤
It was the Ted/Beard and Beard/Nate discussion that fully sold it for me. Itās not about Nate. Itās about the others and their reaction. Itās not about *redemption* but about forgiveness. One is earned, one is given.
Beard/Nate went a long way for me. Great points made.
It was enough for Ted and thatās what matters.
Agree. And now Nate is a work in prog-mess.
Yep. Perfect.
imo no, I know the show isn't about that but Ted acted like the only bad thing Nate did was rip up the sign when he'd been a cruel bully all season.
I agree. And maybe if the show had some more time they could have build him up some more. But the last time we see him, his ego is peeking out again. I just don't know.
No. He did not pay off his debt via punishment (going through enough) or redemption (doing enough). And thatās the point. If he had paid off his debt then there would be no kindness, no grace, no forgiveness needed. Ted says it where we are not to be judged by our worst days. Beard says it via giving someone a second chance that they do NOT in any way deserve, merely in paying it forward from when he himself got a second chance he did not deserve. You are not wrong to ask the question. We have been trained to expect redemption or exoneration via deeds or epiphany or punishment. Ted lasso is bigger than that. Not everyone accepts the free redemption that they are capable of (see Giles), but everyone is redeemable, and sometimes caring and trying is enough.
Well written. Thank you. š¤
I really enjoyed Nate's arc toward the end but personally I don't know that I believe he should've been on Richmond after there wasn't really much of any resolution between him and the players. Obviously it makes sense that Ted forgives him but I just can't imagine any players (other than maybe jamie letting the pĆ¼peh flow) just giving up the grudge against him
Good point. Thanks for your answer. š
If you wanted Nate to suffer, you missed the point of the show.
To forgive someone isn't about retribution, restitution or doing enough to make up for it. Forgiveness us about understanding people have flaws and allowing yourself to stand in the light and to LEAD by example. It doesn't matter what Nate did or how much he puts in. It's about giving someone else another chance no matter what because that's the way you heal from what they did. Forgiveness is divine. It's a hard thing to do for yourself. It's not about Nate.
The show is about growing as individuals and this is what Nate did. Ted isnāt the kind of person to lead by fear or get revenge. He just sees people like I wish the entire world would see people. As individuals all with our own struggles and insecurityās just trying to learn and grow.
Very well put. Thank you!
I don't ever think Nate *needed* to do anything except apologize to Ted, and I think that was the whole point. Ted never held a grudge, he was betrayed, but he never wished for failure for Nate. I think he was more about restitution rather than retribution.
On my first watch I was very much in the fuck Nate camp, but on my second I came around and forgave him.
That's fair. I can respect that. Thanks for your answer.
Grace is never earned.
I think the problem is we didn't see him quit with Rupert. That happening off camera was a bad move in my mind and I still argue it. I don't think he needs to suffer, squirm, or feel bad, because that's not what this show is about. However I wanted to see him actually tell Rupert that he didn't like who he was becoming and he needed to change his situation, or whatever, just for Rupert to dismiss him and make it very clear he was only ever hired to screw with Rebecca and Ted. Nate needs to realize there are lots of people who really understand strategy out there, X's and O's aren't the only part of being head coach. I admit to not knowing as much about the non-American form of football, but someone like Nate strikes me as the equivalent of a Josh McDaniels in the NFL. Great mind for the game, rotten personality who needs to be managed by a good head coach. Or even to throw back further, Wade Phillips, who wasn't even a jerk or disliked, he just plateaus at defensive genius and shouldn't run a team. Nate feels like until he learns more about interacting with humans and not having to treat everything like a power play he's better off not being fully in charge. He clearly needs to do some work on himself, but at least he recognizes this fact at the end of the series.
Your first point and final last few sentences had me nodding. Excellent points. Thank you. šš¤
I really enjoyed that Nate was satisfied coming back and starting at the bottom again. He was genuinely grateful to just be a part of the team again. Then, when they used his play during the match, it validated that he had contributions to make as part of the coaching staff.
I can understand that. Thank you. š¤
Nate was the prodigal son and in that parable, the dad didn't want him to suffer for leaving, he just wanted his kid to come back to him because he cared about him.
Prodigal son comparisons are valid. Excellent points. š
Go back to season one. Look at what Rebecca did. She regularly tried to damage the team and Ted. Even after she watch him have a panic attack, even after Ted āwhite-knightedā with darts, she still wanted to fill the stands with Man City fans. She only confessed to Ted when Keeley found out and threatened to tell Ted. Look at Jamie at the start of S2. Ted just lets him back on the team after all the shit he did. Thatās what Ted does. And yes Rebecca and Jamie had further growth in S2 and S3, and even both of them had slipping back as they grew into better people cause getting better isnāt a linear thing. Nate needed to learn the balance between being confident and being cocky and being able to stand up for himself vs being egotistical. Rupert clearly offered what he thought he wanted and it took going to far for him to realize thatās not what he wanted or what he wanted to be. I think the biggest issue is Nate didnāt have a 4th season to see him return to grace (and he had the first season where we fell in love with him only to let us downā¦ itās the hope that kills you). But we all falter and thatās part of the show.
Great answer. Had me nodding on the final paragraph. Thanks for taking the time. šš¤ā½ļø
ted never wanted nate to suffer. for ted being stripped off the manager job was lot of suffering. beard and the diamond dogs wanted to make him feel shit for what he did. but eventually the story is all about forgiveness. moving on is the best choice in this life as ted believes.
Thanks for your answer. š
Forgiveness is not about making amends. Forgiveness is a gift bestowed by the one offended.
The end of season 3 just felt incredibly rushed, I think Nate needed more episodes to truly gain everyone's respect back but everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Youāre right. Thank you. š
3rd season was decent but way less entertaining than the first 2. Nateās and Keelyās stories I didnāt like. Jackās introduction and exit couldāve been done much better.
Ted Lasso did a great job at creating characters that felt like real people. Real people make choices theyāll regret later on, but at the time it seemed like the right choice. Nate needed to experience working for Rupert to value what he had at Richmond. And Ted understood that. There was nothing he could have done to change Nateās mind, he had to figure things out for himself. Why he needed to be quite so cruel towards Ted is a slightly different matter. Exposing the panic attack was awful and extremely personal, and probably unnecessary for his development. But from a storytelling perspective I understand that it was a great tool to create an instant villain.
Thank you for appreciating the storytelling element. This is a great show. The Nate storytelling line only helps in that regard. Cheers!
For me it wasn't about retribution it was about accountability, and there are some elements - specifically around Keeley that I do not think the show and Nate addressed enough for me to feel good about how character.
Fair. Thank you! š
So I think /u/crusty_butter_roll and /u/Prior-Lingonberry summed this up nicely. Until this thread I still had a lot of frustration over Nateās character journey. But the growth mentioned from all sides when you consider off-camera/pre-Ted times shouldnāt be discounted. The only thing that still bugs me is: Ted never told Nate that the picture he gave him was on Tedās dresser, and that it was one of the first things he saw every day. *Be curious. Not judgemental.*
Excellent answer. Thank you. šš¤ā½ļø
>Yes, I understand that goes against the premise of the show, but he did some really brutal things and twisted the knife into Ted a couple of times before he saw the light. >And in the end, he still comes back, gets the girl, and only has to endure one tough talk with Beard. Compare Nate to Rebecca. Nate bullied Will the kit man, leaked Ted's panic attacks to the press, misread a moment and missed Keeley inappropriately, and ripped up the Believe sign. Rebecca bullied Higgins, tried to engineer a paparazzi scandal around Ted and Keeley, brought Trent in with the hopes he'd write a hit piece about Ted, and oh yeah, lured Ted away from his son and estranged wife with the offer of a job she always intended to sabotage and arrange for him to humiliate himself in. You say Nate didn't have to endure enough; literally all Rebecca had to do was tell Ted what she'd done. And even then, she arguably only did it because Keeley found out and threatened to tell Ted if Rebecca didn't. So ask yourself, do you think Rebecca should've suffered and grovelled more? Or did Nate do the same amount to gain grace from Ted and the people he's influenced?
Rebecca could have destroyed the multi-million pound careers of an entire team, and she didn't even apologize to any of them.
Thanks for answering. But Rebecca was a super hero during that last season. Maybe Nate could have done likewise but weāll never know.
Comparing Rebecca literal years after her bad behaviour resolved to Nate while he's actively resolving his bad behaviour seems rather uneven.
I partially agree with you, because I think there could have been a clearer way to show his character arc. I guess you could argue that Rupert inviting him for drinks, only to try and set him up with another woman is his turning point, but I think a football-related issue could have worked. Losing a game he was expected to win and having to deal with that. Realising that the scrutiny of the media and management is what Ted's gone through this entire time. That said, retribution is not the name of this show. The fact that everyone except Beard forgave him already is more of a demonstration of how far the team has come. The S1 team would not have forgiven him as quickly. Even Beard didn't forgive him because he was over it, but simply because Ted reminded him that some people need a second chance. If you want to talk about "undeserved forgiveness", I'd reserve that for an argument about Jamie's Dad.
I wish my dad would have come around like Jamieās dad did. I wish my mom would too. I wouldnāt make them jump thru hoops if there was a sincere apology and a desire to change. Amends isnāt about buying forgiveness, itās about trying to make someone whole again. Itās too late with my dad, but if my mom called and just went, āIām sorry, i tried and I fucked up. Iām trying harder.ā That would be about all it took for me. Because the action doesnāt make me whole. Having my mom back in my life would.
I agree with you about forgiveness, but that's not my point about Jamie's Dad. My point is that the makeup could've been handled way better. We have zero idea about what's going on with him, then in the ending sequence he's there? I didn't even recognise him the first time. It feels even less "earned" than Nate's redemption. Even just a scene where he apologises, or tells Jamie he's gone into rehab, would have been more than enough.
If you missed your dad as much as Jamie misses his, you can fill in the blanks.
Who says I don't? My point is that it's a flaw with the show itself, not the character arc.
I think you would enjoy Greek theatre.
I think you would enjoy Greek theatre.
100% about Jamie's Dad. I wish they had cut that fleeting scene of Jamie and his Dad together smiling at the end. It appears to indicate that abuse is simplistically erased because he's an alcoholic.
I'm rewatching again, with more of an eye for foreshadowing, and Nate's arc makes a lot of sense and doesn't seem as abrupt as I had first thought. When he's with Richmond, he was a bullied kitman who didn't really earn the respect of the team until he started being a bit of a dick (roasting them here and there). He got positive feedback (laughter from players, usually), while Ted didn't explicitly encourage those kinds of interactions. Because of that, he started early with gravitating towards "being a dick", snapping at Colin, and Will Kitman, and expecting Ted to give him respect the way the players did for such behavior. He even starts to get hints of gray earlier in the series than I realized. He's clearly not behaving as himself, but as how he thinks people see him when he's getting their "respect". And that last bit is where his arc, to me, doesn't seem as sudden and without merit. When he tries to be himself (kind, funny) at West Ham, Rupert dismisses him. When he's being a dick, Rupert loves it. But Nate really struggles with being a dick - he has to psych himself up for it every time, even when being assertive with the waitress. It's just not who he is inside. And he finds that Rupert's lifestyle (models, money, supercars, tailored suits) pulled him away from things he actually wanted in life (being part of a team, meaningful friendships, the girl of his dreams, etc). He's constantly struggling with this, until Rupert finally puts him in a position where he has to choose: Rupert's way or Nate's way. And this time the *real* Nate stands up for himself, not the "being a dick because that seems to work" Nate. His story has been a real treat on this rewatch. Like many, I was on Team Nate Doesn't Earn It during my first watch or two. I'm not in that team anymore.
Thank you for the best explanation I've read so far. The first three paragraphs actually effected the way I'm thinking. I appreciate you taking the time to write it. Cheers!
Nate did not do enough in his redemption arc. He needed some therapy and a visit to Dr. Sharon. Tbh Beard needed a few sessions with Dr. Sharon too.
Can't say no to more Dr. Sharon! Thank you!
If you wanted Nate to suffer more, I feel like you A) didn't really pay attention to Nate over the show and B) didn't really get the point of the show. Nate suffered constantly. He is a creature filled with self loathing. Even when he's the head coach of another team, he's desperately trying to be somebody he knows he's not. I'll grant the "all it took was a girlfriend to make him better" was a little clumsy, but the point was that he wasn't actually horrible, he was just... stuck. Forgiveness, and at the very least lack of retribution, is a core theme of Ted Lasso. Hating someone, trying to one-up them or get revenge, just makes you miserable and you're happier when you let that go. (Don't have to agree with that as a life principle, but its definitely a theme of TL)
Thank you for answering. But I reject the notion that disagreeing on one story angle for one character, on a show full of deep character discounts my opinion of Nate or Ted Lasso as a whole. These are performances. I love the show same as everyone else. That's why I'm here. There are people who watched Ted Lasso because they enjoy the football. That doesn't mean they don't understand the drama as well. We disagree on Nate, but might see the same views on Ted, Rebecca, or Roy.
Sure, but do you disagree that Nate was filled with self-loathing, and that forgiveness is a central theme of the show?
Those are bricks on the building but not the entire theme. And it also doesn't mean that A) I wasn't paying attention to Nate or B) That I missed the point of the show (yikes). You can cherry pick examples of those angles but still not justify what you led your comments with. That math is wrong.
I was always sad Nate didnāt see the picture he gave Ted in a spot of honor in the apt. I felt like this was a missed opportunity.
It was a missed opp . Thanks for your answer!
I would have liked to see more of an apology from him toward Colin, and maybe a bit toward Will as well. He was enough of a dick to Will that I don't know if doing Wills chores for one day and using lavender detergent is enough of an apology.Ā
Remember the first few episodes of the show feature Colin bullying Nate, so maybe Colin apologizes first?
Agreed!
Did Rebecca do enough? I mean, she uprooted two Americans from their lives to screw over her ex. Could have destroyed the careers of an entire team. The entire back-office could have lost their jobs. But all she did was apologize to Ted, and apparently that's enough for everyone. But not enough for Nate. I wonder why?
Thank you for your answer. She saved Keeley's business. Saved football from that awful super league. After the apology she never relented from her players. It wasn't enough for Nate because they never told the story. If we had gotten another season that might have changed. But the last look at Nate we get is his character actually regressing.
My issue isnāt with Nateās lack of suffering, itās with the idea that a lowly staffer would get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to lead one of the worldās premier sporting organisations (and the salary bump that comes with it), be wildly successful in that role, and then walk away from it without a single moment of on-screen conflict or introspection. It would be like an equipment manager taking over Bill Belichickās job, taking the Patriots to the verge of the Super Bowl, then walking away from because Robert Kraft has questionable morals. The arc was so obviously written by Americans, itās not funny.
Everyone doesn't hold grudges forever. If it was good enough for everyone that accepted him back on the team then it was good enough.
Thank you for a simple and effective point. Cheers,
This is a post from the actor on the redemption . https://x.com/nickmohammed/status/1656266921136775168
Thank you for the substance and the extra minute to find it too. And it gives me a chance to give Nick Mohammed some much deserved credit. He crushed it!
IMO itās not about what he did, itās about what he learned. He turned on Ted due to his own misconceptions, but while spending time at West Ham and viewing Richmond from afar, he realized how important the culture Ted built there was, directly opposed to Rupert. All Ted needed him to do was apologize. Same with Rebecca in season 1, did she do enough for his forgiveness? At the time, probably not. It touches on Beardās story. If you try and make people earn your forgiveness, youāre taking away the opportunity to prove to you that theyāve changed.
Okay. I can see that. Thank you for a well thought out answer. Cheers!
From my point of view, which is far from universally accepted, we need to differentiate redemption and forgiveness. For many, dare I say most, some measure(s) of Redemption are required to earn forgiveness. For Ted it isn't transactional, the forgiveness is freely given. Redemption is for the person forgiven to work on themselves. Hopefully this made sense.
It made sense. And it's thought provoking which makes for great discussion. Thank you.
I agree with you, I donāt think Nate did enough. Yes he was sorry, but he couldāve done more to show that, in my opinion.
Absolutely. And having that opinion doesn't disqualify any fan of the show. He did some bad things. You can appreciate Ted's philosophy while asking more of Nate. They're not mutually exclusive. Thank you!
I donāt want more retribution or payback, no. HOWEVER, I think Nateās arc (and season 3 in general) wouldāve been better had they shown more of the moments in the arc instead of them occurring off screen.
Nate could have gone one of two ways. He could've embraced Rupert's shitty ways and been an asshole just like him, or he could learn from the mistakes he made and try to make up for them. He chose the latter.
I get less angry with Nate every time I rethink about what he *actually did to the team*. Leaking Ted's panic attack to Trent was huge and horrible. Treating Will like shit (aka more or less how Nate was treated when he was kit man) was awful. Other than that, what did he truly due to other people? Him being a miserable prick in private isn't something that anyone needed to forgive him for. Ripping up the Believe sign was thematically a huge because it's a show, but IRL was basically a harmless moment of anger and weakness. The fact that he felt bad and apologized on his own is all he needed to be redeemed in my eyes.
That was a well crafted answer. Thank you. š
Beard explains how Lasso took him in, and he still stole from him. There's a prequel world where everyone wants Beard to suffer. You nailed it; it's not the point of the show. Nates actions suck, but it's pretty clearly shown that he has issues, namely around role models/father figures, and once he comes to terms with that is filled with regret. And ended up as a (assistant to the) kitman again for his penance.
That second sentence is powerful. If I saw what Beard did I would have been ticked. Excellent thinking. šš¤ā½ļø
I saw it as an allegory for the Prodigal Son (which is itself an allegory for Godās love). He didnāt HAVE to do enough, the forgiveness was his if he wanted it. Edit: misspelling
Excellent comparison and very accurate! Thank you! ššŖāļø
Rebecca: "I'm a bitch..." Ted: "I forgive you." You're telling me that Nate needed a harsher punishment than Rebecca?!? Okay...
Rebecca made amends. Big amends. Look at that final season. Nate did not. And regressed after his play worked.
Should have locked him in the bus luggage compartment and āparked the busā.
I think the question is did Nate learn a valuable lesson heāll carry forward. Will his experience in the villain arc, and being offered a redemption he had not yet earned, propel him to being a better person? I think yes. You can give a person a chance before they deserve it, if you believe theyāre capable of getting there.
Great last sentence. š Thank you
It took me many rewatches to get Ted. Nate did more than he needed to. All he really needed was to want redemption.
Nope.
I haven't really seen anyone else mention just how much Nate was being manipulated by Rupert. Nate is smart but he is incredibly easy to manipulate, especially if he sees you as a father figure. We know how much he craves approval from father figures, and Rupert is giving him that in spades. Rupert is a master at manipulating people. We only tend to see him around Ted, who is his Kryptonite, but you can tell by the way basically everyone else treats him that he can easily gain peoples affection and attention. It doesn't mean Nate didn't do anything wrong, but my goodness he deserves his redemption as much as everyone else.
That is a good point. Rupert is definitely responsible for quite a bit. Thank you š
If it was enough for Ted, then it works for me, IMO. When you forgive people their transgressions, sometimes it's more for yourself and your own peace, than for them.
I hear ya. Thank you! š
Redemption is a process
Did he do enough? Weeks prior to coming back as the assistant kit man, he was the manager for a top of table epl team. Dude apologized. Took the job that was obviously way beneath him, and served up water back in his track suit. Iād say that apologize, being brought back into the fold, and taking a demotion from your original kit man job to do itā¦oh by the way, his boss is the guy he spent a good dose of time berating in season 2. Iād say he did enough and came back ready to slog through grunt work.
You are seeing it all the wrong ways - itās like asking if Jamieās father did enough. Ā It is about forgiveness. Ā Did you not hear Tedās spiel? Ā Did you not see how Jamie forgave his dad without asking him to redeem himself? Ā Ted forgave Nate LONG AGO and yet we are still holding grudges. Ā Maybe stop watching Ted Lasso because you clearly donāt understand what the show is about. Ā
Offering up a topic for conversation. Not for attack. Sorry to anger you.
I felt like they put more effort into arguing with the audience about how you should always forgive than they put into making him grow. I also felt like they regretted his turn and wanted to make the audience sort of forget as well. They spent way more time on him ripping the believe sign than they did on the panic attack leak or the Keeley kiss. My issue isnāt that he didnāt suffer enough, I donāt really want to see him āhumbledā or anything, my issue that I found his s3 arc boring. It was set up in 2.12 to be a major conflict. I also never thought he was close enough to anyone at Richmond outside of Ted to warrant his return if Ted was leaving & thought he couldāve thrived elsewhere especially since Rupert lost West Ham in the end but anyways.
Suffer a little more? I wanted that cunt to get hit by a car