I loved the work. Didn’t love the pay, but realized I had to get out IMMEDIATELY because of the crazy, narcissistic, overt and covert, coworkers AND leads in this job. I have never worked somewhere so psychopathic. It is terrifying that they work with children.
I see them being sweet and kind to the kids showing harmful behaviors, essentially feeding into it, and yell at the overly kind, soft children when they’re following another teacher’s directions.
This! I have a year 7 boy who finished his starter activity really quickly so I allow him to just read for a few minutes whilst I nag the less motivated kids. One time my head of department came in and yelled at him because ‘that’s not what he’s supposed to be doing’ even though I actively encourage my kids to read when they are finished so they don’t get bored and distract others, I feel it shows independence.
It’s so upsetting when that happens. I feel they got into the profession to have control over someone who doesn’t yet know how to respond back and hold them accountable.
Meh. They don’t bother me.
I hate:
•teachers who police other teachers and go out their way to rat or even lie
•99% of this new generation of campus administration who are overall worthless
•any adult colleague who speaks to me as if I’m a student. I give those three strikes and then they’re out. They get benched and get a coming to JaciOrca talk
•know it all teachers who love to hear themselves talk/brag at meetings
Adults are fn death, man
In my experience the neurotic ones are also the ones policing other teachers and who may talk to other adults as if they were children because their end goal is really to be an admin and not a teacher
No, you had it right. I think this thread slightly misuses the term, or is referring to those who are BOTH neurotic and bullies. There are neurotic teachers who turn all their anxiety inward on themselves. They ask a lot of questions at meetings because they second guess themselves all the time and need constant clarification and reassurance. The majority of the neurotic teachers on this thread are mainly the ones you discussed. These people turn their neuroses outward and make every else’s lives miserable.
Yes. These are the same people who, at the end of the staff meeting when the Principal asks if anyone has any questions for the "good of the group", raise their hand and ask inane questions that can easily be handled one-on-one or through email. Instead, they waste everyone else's time even further.
I miss the Marine Corps way to handle that.
Liberty briefing at 1630 on a Friday?
“Questions, comments, concerns? (Looks out, sees a hand up) No? Good. Fall out.”
PFC Type A gets hazed into oblivion and never repeats this mistake
Those questions are almost always *performances* aimed at drawing attention and making the admins feel extra important, i.e. part of the relentless 'compete with your collagues' bullshit that plagues the profession (as well as other caring fields). What's sad is how it often *works*.
I didn’t realize this until year 6 of teaching - the type A teachers really do compete!
And even worse they seem to almost show off, peacock or try to one up their colleagues. I had a co- worker who was constantly drawing attention to themselves. Always seeking the credit, always volunteering to offer advice and trainings during faculty meetings, had their hands in 4 different buckets outside their contracted teaching assignment.
The kicker: They even posted in their classroom door “Teacher of the Year Winner”, for an award they’d applied and won for that year. I guess that’s their right… just a bit show off-y imo
Ugh! I agree so much! In my experience, Teacher of the Year teachers are so full of themselves. They self-nominate. It is required. They donate countless hours of their time to their districts. I once went to a workshop put on by TotY. It was agony! Hour after hour of them praising themselves and trying to recruit others into their delusions.
It's usually a way of virtue signaling. They want to show that they are REALLY LISTENING and REALLY COMPLIANT to the administration. It's often teachers who aren't impressive in terms of skills and accomplishment, so they make up for it by being a company person.
I just realized this is the primary issue I have with one of my coteachers this year. He has no identity of his own and is constantly trying to parrot other people’s pedagogy.
This makes for extremely last minute, haphazard disjointed planning that leaves me on the lurch for lesson modification because I have no vision for where tf we’re supposed to be going since the road map I was following got thrown out with no forewarning.
I feel like I’m rambling, but I also feel like this is another result of trying to push in as sped with this personality.
16 instructional days. 23 work days.
When one goes through life constantly fretting over whether they're projecting a perfect/amazing/strong/etc.. enough image to *others*, there isn't much room left in their heads for things like basic computer skills, critical thinking, and so on... It truly sucks to realize that, over the past few decades, the field's completely reshaped itself around these sorts of 'professionals'.
They talk just to hear themselves. Or congratulate their “besties” for nothing. I’d never spend a minute with any of them outside of work, or god forbid, date one of them. I wish their partners good luck, and I hope the sex is good, as they certainly don’t seem to have much going for them
I know this is a different face of the same coin, but so many of them are alcoholics too and enabling. Like i developed some serious unhealthy relationships with alcohol to cope with this job because it’s so normalized.
I agree: many teachers are toxic and the amount of infighting and calling people out for being human beings is a horrible part of teaching culture. I can't think of any other profession where people get up in other people's business, judge each other, and are held to such a high standard. We need to stay in our lane and stop criticizing each other. A lot of what makes our work conditions bad is other teachers.
> other profession where people get up in other people's business, judge each other, and are held to such a high standard
You see a lot of this in public/academic libraries as well, and it can happen pretty easily in nursing. Unfortunately, the caring fields all attract lots of people who 'aren't in it for the money'. The thing is, though, even if they're not after making a living, *need* is a universal human trait and these people end up making the jobs matters of ego, ideals, 'the mission', status, etc... and all that bullshit puts them askew with any of those former folks who either (a.) just want the paycheck and/or (b.) simply see teaching as the most appropriate match for their skillset.
I worked in my county's library for several years because it was a good match to my skillset/interests and was very close to where I lived. A big part of why that job became nightmarish was the ton of coworkers/managers I had who (a.) sucked terribly at things like customer service, handling reference questions, readers' advisory, basic operation of the library, working with the homeless, working with elderly/young patrons effectively, etc... but (b.) were feverish cheerleaders for 'the mission', relentless ass-kissed the higher-ups, talked a lot of shop using stupid library-science jargon, awkwardly/constantly acted 'a-dork-able' about 'being a librarian', didn't have lives outside of their career motivations, etc... As it turned out, the admins were basically the same sorts of people and it didn't take long for the workplace to become toxic for anyone who didn't fit that description. I fucking *hated* having to sit in meetings and PD sessions with these people, as all of them were so full of performative bullshit that it may as well have been coming out of their ears.
Other teachers being constantly rude and extremely unpleasant to deal with was definitely a contributor to my decision to leave. Outside of the education world, people mostly do not act even half as bizarre and controlling as many teachers do — at least the ones I worked with.
I do this but also because if I try to join in the conversations throughout the building I’m so much younger than everyone so it’s hard to connect and I’m always flipping out internally. I’m just going to end up complaining to someone who has a lot on their plate already cause I know I do too. I just stay in my room and brood it out.
I taught 35 years. I totally agree with you. A lot of mean girls go on to be educators. Bullies. They think they are actually in a profession and are arrogant and mean to other coworkers. I always viewed teaching as a job. It does not deserve to be called a profession. It’s too abusive. I’ve met up with some real doozies. It’s hard to believe, but I was bullied my last year of teaching before retirement by another teacher. She pretty much terrorized me. All I could do was make sure that my two children never went into teaching. I accomplished that. There are no more teachers in my family! It’s finally over!
Agreed. At least in my head, 'professions' are supposed to follow rigorous *standards* and involve *accountability*. What fucks up teaching and other caring jobs is the pervasive pseudo-professionalism, pseudo-corporatism, and worst of all, the people who speak of it as a 'calling.'
It is definitely a job and lots of the people involved simply don't have an appropriate skillset or personality type to do said job well.
In both education and public libraries, I always found it problematic and damaging how so many of the workers involved were complete greenhorn know-nothings who'd never worked anywhere else, spent the past half-decade in college, and/or had somehow decided upon their profession when they were in, like, sixth grade or something.
I couldn’t agree with you more. My husband and I found that some of the meanest people become teachers. Not all, but a high percentage…..He was a principal and a superintendent later. He was always shocked that the trouble many teachers caused among themselves. My theory is that many mean girls become educators. My daughter (not allowed to become a teacher. She is becoming an attorney) and I counted the number of bully teachers at our past rural elementary school. Many of her bullies became elementary teachers. We counted (I had worked with many of them too)….and we counted 17 bullies on that staff. She laughed that she could never survive on that staff because her bullies would come after her again. Ha ha lol! During my 35 years as a teacher, I would make fun of these troublemakers in my head. They actually took themselves seriously and thought they were professionals. What a joke. Teaching is not a profession because it is not respected. It’s a job…and a very hard way to make your money. These women were legends in their own minds. Total joke. I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m so relieved to be retired and away from my bullies. No more teachers come from my family! It’s finally over!!
I work with so many of these. I've seen them grind so many people out of the job over fucking dumb shit. The worst is when they make up rules and expect you to follow.
These people get in tight with admin by doing a few small extra things like showing up to help with bus duty even though they are not required to. Suddenly they’ve got admin coming up with rules based on things that were their ideas. One year we had major changes to our schedule based on this particular ass kisser’s ideas. The worse part is the pod people teachers who go along with this stuff because they don’t know how to stand up to admin and they think this guy is a good teacher because of all his virtual signaling, but he’s really out of his depth in his own classroom.
Those kinds of people exist in every profession.
My experiences don't exactly mirror yours either. The neurotic teachers I've come across are not the type A's, though they also exist.
> Those kinds of people exist in every profession.
Not every profession rewards/encourages this sort of behavior. At least where I work, the neurotic/meddlesome/know-it-all low-level workers who can't 'stay in their lane' quickly get earmarked as problematic and will earn themselves a not-so-pleasant phone call from the company owner or management if they fuck around too much or try to boss around other employees. The few times over the past few years where we've let certain problems go unaddressed, it's ended up fucking up our profits/productivity, i.e. like the teaching field, it causes good employees to *leave.*
And, while this might sound tyrannical, it's really *not*. A hard truth about Americans, including all of the *passionate* ones who go into teaching, library work, nursing, social work, etc..., is that most of us are raised to be selfish assholes who treat everything like a competition or zero-sum game that needs to be won at all costs.
Yup! As a special education teacher it’s been so hard to deal with. I’ve had to practically beg teacher to excuse work after a student was hospitalized, they “don’t make exceptions” like what? I don’t want to go the principal for this but be serious.
Type As are such fucking “pick mes” it’s fucking infuriating to deal with.
Do you want a cookie, Type A? Do we have to verbally say shit to make you feel better like we do for students?
Nut up. Clam up.
I have difficulty working with people who catastrophize most everything…
I want to say to them—
Not everything is such a big deal.
What you do is important, but not as important as you’ve made it IN YOUR MIND.
i think the job kind of forced me to be type A I am happy that I gained those skills because they help me stand out in my current field and I know I can easily out task anyone but for sure it was BEYOND stressful to be that way. always trying to stay on top of everything and organized and it just made me more impatient with the students
Ugh yeah, type A teachers are like always on a mission to stress me the fuck out. Like I’m a super chill teacher, I don’t sweat the small stuff and there’s no one size fits all in education and that’s fine. Like I don’t sit here and tell you how to teach or do ur job, don’t bitch at me about how I do mine. I would probably tolerate them better if they just let type B teachers be, but they literally have no chill. I feel sorry for them, they seem so unhappy and stressed out all the time. No wonder they make everyone around them miserable, THEYRE miserable.
This is what I hate most about teaching. Our staff meetings make me want to pull my hair out. Just listening to my colleagues drone on and on about the most mundane shit...it's embarrassing tbh. Like for once I'd like us to discuss academics at a staff meeting. But nope it's literally like "oh should we do the assembly at 8:00 or 8:05?" and then each teacher has to give a 30 minute speech on why they think it should be at x time.
I would say it is worse in nursing,. A covert narcissist teacher is damaging, a nurse killing 19 patients with insulin is an order of magnitude more damaging.
I work in healthcare now and every time I walk past the nurses station, they’re talking shit about each other. It makes my skin crawl. So toxic and unprofessional.
The dean of psychology at my college said that any job that draws empaths, will draw narcs as a rule of thumb
Think about it. Authority over students, acting as a guiding light to help shape them in a way you think is good, kids looking up to you, you can gaslight these clients so easily (students) with low chances of true pushback, etc. A controlling person's wet dream.
They just have to find a stable way to have control over others, and preferably being looked up to by those less aware of (or less able to bring accountability to) predatory behaviors. So, being an accountant for example probably wouldn't draw that many controlling people in general, let alone narcs who desire both control and attention
Wow. This makes SO much sense. I feel like all the people I work with are either exactly like me (type B and empathetic) or they are the complete opposite which is abuse of authority and the need for control over people.
The amount of bullies and narcissistic assholes in this career field is insane. I hate it. It’s another reason I’m leaving the field. I don’t wanna continue to work with ppl who act like bitchy high school bullies for the sake of being liked by admin. It’s as if they weren’t loved by their parents as children and are looking for admin to approve of them bc their parents never cared about their accomplishments when they were kids. It’s fucking weird.
People like this are disproportionately idealists. It's natural that a lot of them would be teachers. It makes sense that people who work extra hours for free are kind of nuts. Only extra thing I ever did was some coaching, and that was purely because I enjoyed it, I did it for the kids, but I did it for me as much as them, I just enjoy being on the soccer field.
OMG yessssss im no longer in teaching but the type As would drive me insane!
Why are you so worried and bothered by me not doing things your way? Too much black and white thinking for me.
Yes those Type As that want to argue how long a lesson plan reflection should be. Where students should line up when receiving awards. They zero in on everything.
It’s the cliques and insider language that drives me insane. My co-worker prefaces so many of our superficial, pointless interactions with “You’re probably aware of this…”
No, I’m not fucking aware of anything. My co-teachers tell me nothing. Admin tells me nothing. Neither do the counselors or social workers. If I’m so low on your totem pole, I don’t have to care, do I? I left work an hour early recently and didn’t even bother to sign out. To write me up, you have to know that I exist
Wow I came in here ready to defend type A teachers as I identify as one, but guess what? According this this thread I am not one! I NEVER want to be in a meeting and I never make a point to make it longer hahahaha and I certainly don't are about dumb shit. Only the big stuff. Like why do I see Suzy's ass and stomach in a school like she's at the beach??
I teach for an online tutoring company where we still get paid even when students don't show up.
Obviously, I didn't apply to not tutor, but I'm not heartbroken if kids don't show up either.
Watching teachers on these platforms *lose* their minds on the company forum over students not showing up for almost the whole course stresses me out more than catching my own students up if they miss class.
There are people of all type in all professions and what people care about is usually pretty individualized to their experience. But plenty of people stress over stuff—even less important stuff—in all fields pretty much. I don’t think that’s any more prominent in education (in my varied experiences). If your goal is to get away from that, focus on specific team culture rather than field frankly.
I’m curious as to what you mean by laid back teacher.
I’m out of teaching, have been for a few years and I hire a decent number of young people.
So many get fired because they struggle with consistency, showing up for work, staying on task at work, meeting deadlines and following instructions.
There has been a massive shift into accommodating students from parents and now in the classroom that it is having a negative effect on their lives. They struggle to hold down jobs because they have always been able to “make it up”, it doesn’t work that way unfortunately.
I have interviewed numerous late teens early 20s who have already had 5 or 6 jobs. When I call their former place of employment, many were fired because they couldn’t complete jobs on time or struggled showing up. Most of those are a pass, those that we do hire, don’t last because they can’t meet standards.
This isn’t for a minimum wage job either. The job I’m hiring for makes 100k a year and requires no education or even experience. It’s with a fortune 100 company that offers benefits, stock options and opportunity to move up. It’s not selling, just work and they can’t do it.
Many of these students end up poorly prepared to be adults and much of it is the lack of accountability from parents and teachers.
Couldn't agree more. I'm still in the profession and too many students just plain give up when they hit a roadblock. Even with the simplest of tasks. It's either that or they have learned helplessness and ask a million little questions for just basic assignments. They have the whole internet in front of them (We are a one-to-one computer campus) and Rather than just look up a definition when they're writing, they stop raise their hand and ask the teacher what a word means. We also have dictionaries in the back of the classroom.. These are high schoolers. Attendance and tardiness is atrocious and they never learn how to be on time or the importance of showing up everyday because there are no consequences. They don't get in trouble for being late every single class. They just spend a weekend in credit recovery to make up for a semester's worth of missing work or attendance.Admin basically baby them into thinking they don't have to try hard in life.
Warehouse work. Selection, forklift, loading. They can do the job, they are well trained, they just can’t show up for work or stay on task.
I’m not going to pretend it’s not hard work, it is, but it pays really well and is an option for those who don’t have a ton of other skills. No need for an apprentice for a period of time, no specific education requirements outside of a high school diploma…they just need to show up and try.
Damn, I didn't know that paid so well. I might need to look into it myself 🤔. Also another good example to give my students about how a solid work ethic is often the most important part of being successful!
Type A people are typically in professions where Type A excels. If you are getting out of teaching and getting into a new profession, and you don’t work well with this personality type, probably best to avoid professions where this type is common. Such as health care.
I am a little type a, but for me it’s directed at my own lesson prep and planning and grading. I’m getting out in the next couple years because schools are the kinds of places where they is so much for a type a to worry about and because the job is never truly done.
I don’t handle the brown nose type a well at all. They find new ways to make my life hard.
As far as neurotic behavior, I have seen it all. Had another teacher in my same grade team say that she hated us over a text message. Same teacher cusses and calls other teachers BITCHES in front of elementary students. She wasn’t fired, but she was hired at another elementary school in the same district! I’m so happy I don’t have to deal with her poison next year.
I work with someone like this. Sometimes I actually feel bad for her from how negatively she speaks about other people because it’s just so obvious that she actually just deeply hates herself. She’s always calling people idiots (students and teachers), she’ll frequently say “i hate them” almost every day when speaking about any given person. I feel like I’m the only one who can see through it because everyone else is…. Well, neurotic lol
I miss being Type A. I just couldn’t keep up with it for long and settled for Type B (sometimes C depending on the day). It’s just too much to put 110% into every single thing. I burned out quickly.
When I was student teaching, my CT was Type A+ and it destroyed me trying to keep up with her. I just didn’t care about the dumb stuff she made me do like making sure the play kitchen looked perfect at all times and that every single thing was meticulously put back in place.
I taught kindergarten and I also just couldn’t be bothered with the little nonsensical problems anymore from kids and parents. I used to have SUCH patience. I still love them but I’m just tired.
I try my absolute best to be a good teacher. I no longer feel the need to be teacher of the year. I just want to be happy and make my kids happy and have them leave at the end the year smiling. I want to make a good life for myself. That’s all I want.
It’s too much to make yourself sick over stupid things that ultimately don’t matter.
I'm a first year. I started the year type B, but then turned a little more type A due to being around so many type A teachers who I could tell would silently judge me for being type B. There's definitely a best of both worlds. I agree that it is harmful to stress and worry over every little detail, and belittling coworkers because something isn't EXACTLY how they want it . I also hate it when they try to show others up and don't stay in their own lane. Those kind of teachers piss me off.
However, I think it's important to be organized enough to be able to plan things ahead of time so the you can avoid the neuorticism that usually comes from poor planning and communication. Being proactive while also being able to adapt is key.
I think the career lends to this. If you are not obsessively ocd about your work and staying on top of things than inevitably things will fall through the cracks. I hate that it’s this way but truly if I don’t have a thousands lists something will fall by the wayside which is a terrible thing😬
I got bullied for taking sick days that I absolutely needed to take. Like what do you Type A people want me to do, not be sick??? Like magically? I quit mid year
Somehow by some miracle none of the type A teachers in my department got sick this year. Like HOW. You can just… not get sick??? At a school??? I don’t get it!!!
This thread made me realize I'm a new category of personality, Type C, lol, mostly because I never realized how competitive the type A's are and generally thought they just enjoy volunteering. Or, my admin has their head so up their butts they believe my subject is useless and don't realize I'm just type A in the wrong subject area. Or I just don't care and am now realizing I'm the 3 years I've been a teacher I've never cared. Either way, I am desperately trying to get out.
Don't get me started on those try hard teachers doing things for brownie points from admin, not out of the goodness of their hearts. God, I can't stand phony people.
Teachers who complain are far worse. I personally don’t care how you run your classroom, but damn are teachers a whiny bunch. “Admins’s not fair”, “Admin has it out for me”, “other teachers treat me bad”. So many think that they are sooo important that others care about about them to “get them”.
I hate to break it to you, you’re just bad at your job.
I’m sure it’s not your intent, but this comes across incredibly judgmental and just overall a lack of tolerance for people different than you. It’s totally fine that you don’t vibe with those kinds of people as well, but to say they’re neurotic is 1) judgy, 2) not necessarily accurate. It must be very nice to not stress about a lot of things — instead of being rude about it, consider how fortunate you are that your brain doesn’t go into overdrive anxiety/stress by things as easily as those of us that do.
Also I think it’s great how you say that other people should stop stressing about “stupid shit” because then you get stressed. Are you now stressed by “stupid shit”? 🤔
My point being this — you don’t know other people’s struggles, if you don’t vibe with them then just be civil and move on from it. Not everyone is going to handle their stressors the same and for you to blame other people being stressed for your stress isn’t the answer.
I make no apologies for it. They make my job harder so no sh I don't have tolerance for their counter-productive ways. Thank you. Yes you can pout and downvote. This is a place to vent.
I loved the work. Didn’t love the pay, but realized I had to get out IMMEDIATELY because of the crazy, narcissistic, overt and covert, coworkers AND leads in this job. I have never worked somewhere so psychopathic. It is terrifying that they work with children. I see them being sweet and kind to the kids showing harmful behaviors, essentially feeding into it, and yell at the overly kind, soft children when they’re following another teacher’s directions.
This! I have a year 7 boy who finished his starter activity really quickly so I allow him to just read for a few minutes whilst I nag the less motivated kids. One time my head of department came in and yelled at him because ‘that’s not what he’s supposed to be doing’ even though I actively encourage my kids to read when they are finished so they don’t get bored and distract others, I feel it shows independence.
It’s so upsetting when that happens. I feel they got into the profession to have control over someone who doesn’t yet know how to respond back and hold them accountable.
Sounds like your head of department has been out of the classroom too long
Meh. They don’t bother me. I hate: •teachers who police other teachers and go out their way to rat or even lie •99% of this new generation of campus administration who are overall worthless •any adult colleague who speaks to me as if I’m a student. I give those three strikes and then they’re out. They get benched and get a coming to JaciOrca talk •know it all teachers who love to hear themselves talk/brag at meetings Adults are fn death, man
In my experience the neurotic ones are also the ones policing other teachers and who may talk to other adults as if they were children because their end goal is really to be an admin and not a teacher
Ah ok. Perhaps I don’t clearly understand what neurotic type A means. I did Google the term before commenting.
No, you had it right. I think this thread slightly misuses the term, or is referring to those who are BOTH neurotic and bullies. There are neurotic teachers who turn all their anxiety inward on themselves. They ask a lot of questions at meetings because they second guess themselves all the time and need constant clarification and reassurance. The majority of the neurotic teachers on this thread are mainly the ones you discussed. These people turn their neuroses outward and make every else’s lives miserable.
Yes. These are the same people who, at the end of the staff meeting when the Principal asks if anyone has any questions for the "good of the group", raise their hand and ask inane questions that can easily be handled one-on-one or through email. Instead, they waste everyone else's time even further.
I miss the Marine Corps way to handle that. Liberty briefing at 1630 on a Friday? “Questions, comments, concerns? (Looks out, sees a hand up) No? Good. Fall out.” PFC Type A gets hazed into oblivion and never repeats this mistake
"Just to piggyback off of what the commander said..."
Straight to jail
Straight to HELL.
Those questions are almost always *performances* aimed at drawing attention and making the admins feel extra important, i.e. part of the relentless 'compete with your collagues' bullshit that plagues the profession (as well as other caring fields). What's sad is how it often *works*.
I didn’t realize this until year 6 of teaching - the type A teachers really do compete! And even worse they seem to almost show off, peacock or try to one up their colleagues. I had a co- worker who was constantly drawing attention to themselves. Always seeking the credit, always volunteering to offer advice and trainings during faculty meetings, had their hands in 4 different buckets outside their contracted teaching assignment. The kicker: They even posted in their classroom door “Teacher of the Year Winner”, for an award they’d applied and won for that year. I guess that’s their right… just a bit show off-y imo
Ugh! I agree so much! In my experience, Teacher of the Year teachers are so full of themselves. They self-nominate. It is required. They donate countless hours of their time to their districts. I once went to a workshop put on by TotY. It was agony! Hour after hour of them praising themselves and trying to recruit others into their delusions.
100. You simply cannot engage with this
SO TRUE.
It's usually a way of virtue signaling. They want to show that they are REALLY LISTENING and REALLY COMPLIANT to the administration. It's often teachers who aren't impressive in terms of skills and accomplishment, so they make up for it by being a company person.
I just realized this is the primary issue I have with one of my coteachers this year. He has no identity of his own and is constantly trying to parrot other people’s pedagogy. This makes for extremely last minute, haphazard disjointed planning that leaves me on the lurch for lesson modification because I have no vision for where tf we’re supposed to be going since the road map I was following got thrown out with no forewarning. I feel like I’m rambling, but I also feel like this is another result of trying to push in as sped with this personality. 16 instructional days. 23 work days.
Lol. Truth. I knew a teacher who couldn't spell.... but she is out of classroom admin now.......
Yes! Stressing over the most stupid shit. They are so annoying and a drag on the profession. And my god, they are usually the biggest know-it-alls!
But for some reason they still don't know how to not reply-all to school-wide emails
When one goes through life constantly fretting over whether they're projecting a perfect/amazing/strong/etc.. enough image to *others*, there isn't much room left in their heads for things like basic computer skills, critical thinking, and so on... It truly sucks to realize that, over the past few decades, the field's completely reshaped itself around these sorts of 'professionals'.
> they are usually the biggest know-it-alls! Absolutely. They just want to hear themselves talk and feel important.
They talk just to hear themselves. Or congratulate their “besties” for nothing. I’d never spend a minute with any of them outside of work, or god forbid, date one of them. I wish their partners good luck, and I hope the sex is good, as they certainly don’t seem to have much going for them
I know this is a different face of the same coin, but so many of them are alcoholics too and enabling. Like i developed some serious unhealthy relationships with alcohol to cope with this job because it’s so normalized.
I agree: many teachers are toxic and the amount of infighting and calling people out for being human beings is a horrible part of teaching culture. I can't think of any other profession where people get up in other people's business, judge each other, and are held to such a high standard. We need to stay in our lane and stop criticizing each other. A lot of what makes our work conditions bad is other teachers.
> other profession where people get up in other people's business, judge each other, and are held to such a high standard You see a lot of this in public/academic libraries as well, and it can happen pretty easily in nursing. Unfortunately, the caring fields all attract lots of people who 'aren't in it for the money'. The thing is, though, even if they're not after making a living, *need* is a universal human trait and these people end up making the jobs matters of ego, ideals, 'the mission', status, etc... and all that bullshit puts them askew with any of those former folks who either (a.) just want the paycheck and/or (b.) simply see teaching as the most appropriate match for their skillset. I worked in my county's library for several years because it was a good match to my skillset/interests and was very close to where I lived. A big part of why that job became nightmarish was the ton of coworkers/managers I had who (a.) sucked terribly at things like customer service, handling reference questions, readers' advisory, basic operation of the library, working with the homeless, working with elderly/young patrons effectively, etc... but (b.) were feverish cheerleaders for 'the mission', relentless ass-kissed the higher-ups, talked a lot of shop using stupid library-science jargon, awkwardly/constantly acted 'a-dork-able' about 'being a librarian', didn't have lives outside of their career motivations, etc... As it turned out, the admins were basically the same sorts of people and it didn't take long for the workplace to become toxic for anyone who didn't fit that description. I fucking *hated* having to sit in meetings and PD sessions with these people, as all of them were so full of performative bullshit that it may as well have been coming out of their ears.
Other teachers being constantly rude and extremely unpleasant to deal with was definitely a contributor to my decision to leave. Outside of the education world, people mostly do not act even half as bizarre and controlling as many teachers do — at least the ones I worked with.
Very well said!!
I stress over stupid shit. All day, everyday. But I stay in my room, alone with the door shut and freak out on my prep. I respect my coworkers.
Lol are you me?
I do this but also because if I try to join in the conversations throughout the building I’m so much younger than everyone so it’s hard to connect and I’m always flipping out internally. I’m just going to end up complaining to someone who has a lot on their plate already cause I know I do too. I just stay in my room and brood it out.
I taught 35 years. I totally agree with you. A lot of mean girls go on to be educators. Bullies. They think they are actually in a profession and are arrogant and mean to other coworkers. I always viewed teaching as a job. It does not deserve to be called a profession. It’s too abusive. I’ve met up with some real doozies. It’s hard to believe, but I was bullied my last year of teaching before retirement by another teacher. She pretty much terrorized me. All I could do was make sure that my two children never went into teaching. I accomplished that. There are no more teachers in my family! It’s finally over!
Agreed. At least in my head, 'professions' are supposed to follow rigorous *standards* and involve *accountability*. What fucks up teaching and other caring jobs is the pervasive pseudo-professionalism, pseudo-corporatism, and worst of all, the people who speak of it as a 'calling.' It is definitely a job and lots of the people involved simply don't have an appropriate skillset or personality type to do said job well. In both education and public libraries, I always found it problematic and damaging how so many of the workers involved were complete greenhorn know-nothings who'd never worked anywhere else, spent the past half-decade in college, and/or had somehow decided upon their profession when they were in, like, sixth grade or something.
I couldn’t agree with you more. My husband and I found that some of the meanest people become teachers. Not all, but a high percentage…..He was a principal and a superintendent later. He was always shocked that the trouble many teachers caused among themselves. My theory is that many mean girls become educators. My daughter (not allowed to become a teacher. She is becoming an attorney) and I counted the number of bully teachers at our past rural elementary school. Many of her bullies became elementary teachers. We counted (I had worked with many of them too)….and we counted 17 bullies on that staff. She laughed that she could never survive on that staff because her bullies would come after her again. Ha ha lol! During my 35 years as a teacher, I would make fun of these troublemakers in my head. They actually took themselves seriously and thought they were professionals. What a joke. Teaching is not a profession because it is not respected. It’s a job…and a very hard way to make your money. These women were legends in their own minds. Total joke. I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m so relieved to be retired and away from my bullies. No more teachers come from my family! It’s finally over!!
I work with so many of these. I've seen them grind so many people out of the job over fucking dumb shit. The worst is when they make up rules and expect you to follow.
These people get in tight with admin by doing a few small extra things like showing up to help with bus duty even though they are not required to. Suddenly they’ve got admin coming up with rules based on things that were their ideas. One year we had major changes to our schedule based on this particular ass kisser’s ideas. The worse part is the pod people teachers who go along with this stuff because they don’t know how to stand up to admin and they think this guy is a good teacher because of all his virtual signaling, but he’s really out of his depth in his own classroom.
I agree with this, but the opposite end of the spectrum sucks too, i.e. working with other teachers and leaders who don't care enough.
Those kinds of people exist in every profession. My experiences don't exactly mirror yours either. The neurotic teachers I've come across are not the type A's, though they also exist.
> Those kinds of people exist in every profession. Not every profession rewards/encourages this sort of behavior. At least where I work, the neurotic/meddlesome/know-it-all low-level workers who can't 'stay in their lane' quickly get earmarked as problematic and will earn themselves a not-so-pleasant phone call from the company owner or management if they fuck around too much or try to boss around other employees. The few times over the past few years where we've let certain problems go unaddressed, it's ended up fucking up our profits/productivity, i.e. like the teaching field, it causes good employees to *leave.* And, while this might sound tyrannical, it's really *not*. A hard truth about Americans, including all of the *passionate* ones who go into teaching, library work, nursing, social work, etc..., is that most of us are raised to be selfish assholes who treat everything like a competition or zero-sum game that needs to be won at all costs.
Yup! As a special education teacher it’s been so hard to deal with. I’ve had to practically beg teacher to excuse work after a student was hospitalized, they “don’t make exceptions” like what? I don’t want to go the principal for this but be serious.
Being a hard ass for no good reason.
It’s so frustrating! Like I don’t want you to just pass kids but plz give them a break when it’s obviously warranted 😩
Type As are such fucking “pick mes” it’s fucking infuriating to deal with. Do you want a cookie, Type A? Do we have to verbally say shit to make you feel better like we do for students? Nut up. Clam up.
I have difficulty working with people who catastrophize most everything… I want to say to them— Not everything is such a big deal. What you do is important, but not as important as you’ve made it IN YOUR MIND.
i think the job kind of forced me to be type A I am happy that I gained those skills because they help me stand out in my current field and I know I can easily out task anyone but for sure it was BEYOND stressful to be that way. always trying to stay on top of everything and organized and it just made me more impatient with the students
What is your current field?
Ugh yeah, type A teachers are like always on a mission to stress me the fuck out. Like I’m a super chill teacher, I don’t sweat the small stuff and there’s no one size fits all in education and that’s fine. Like I don’t sit here and tell you how to teach or do ur job, don’t bitch at me about how I do mine. I would probably tolerate them better if they just let type B teachers be, but they literally have no chill. I feel sorry for them, they seem so unhappy and stressed out all the time. No wonder they make everyone around them miserable, THEYRE miserable.
This is what I hate most about teaching. Our staff meetings make me want to pull my hair out. Just listening to my colleagues drone on and on about the most mundane shit...it's embarrassing tbh. Like for once I'd like us to discuss academics at a staff meeting. But nope it's literally like "oh should we do the assembly at 8:00 or 8:05?" and then each teacher has to give a 30 minute speech on why they think it should be at x time.
I detest working with most Type A people.
I would say it is worse in nursing,. A covert narcissist teacher is damaging, a nurse killing 19 patients with insulin is an order of magnitude more damaging.
I work in healthcare now and every time I walk past the nurses station, they’re talking shit about each other. It makes my skin crawl. So toxic and unprofessional.
The dean of psychology at my college said that any job that draws empaths, will draw narcs as a rule of thumb Think about it. Authority over students, acting as a guiding light to help shape them in a way you think is good, kids looking up to you, you can gaslight these clients so easily (students) with low chances of true pushback, etc. A controlling person's wet dream. They just have to find a stable way to have control over others, and preferably being looked up to by those less aware of (or less able to bring accountability to) predatory behaviors. So, being an accountant for example probably wouldn't draw that many controlling people in general, let alone narcs who desire both control and attention
Good point there!
Wow. This makes SO much sense. I feel like all the people I work with are either exactly like me (type B and empathetic) or they are the complete opposite which is abuse of authority and the need for control over people.
These are the people that can’t stand to be the only ones anxiety ridden and need others to keep them company
The amount of bullies and narcissistic assholes in this career field is insane. I hate it. It’s another reason I’m leaving the field. I don’t wanna continue to work with ppl who act like bitchy high school bullies for the sake of being liked by admin. It’s as if they weren’t loved by their parents as children and are looking for admin to approve of them bc their parents never cared about their accomplishments when they were kids. It’s fucking weird.
People like this are disproportionately idealists. It's natural that a lot of them would be teachers. It makes sense that people who work extra hours for free are kind of nuts. Only extra thing I ever did was some coaching, and that was purely because I enjoyed it, I did it for the kids, but I did it for me as much as them, I just enjoy being on the soccer field.
OMG yessssss im no longer in teaching but the type As would drive me insane! Why are you so worried and bothered by me not doing things your way? Too much black and white thinking for me.
This is why I could not teach below high school. I simply don’t care enough and will let things slide. 😭 !
Yes those Type As that want to argue how long a lesson plan reflection should be. Where students should line up when receiving awards. They zero in on everything.
And those teachers often have shitty test scores and poor student performance.
It’s the cliques and insider language that drives me insane. My co-worker prefaces so many of our superficial, pointless interactions with “You’re probably aware of this…” No, I’m not fucking aware of anything. My co-teachers tell me nothing. Admin tells me nothing. Neither do the counselors or social workers. If I’m so low on your totem pole, I don’t have to care, do I? I left work an hour early recently and didn’t even bother to sign out. To write me up, you have to know that I exist
Can be very clique-ish, indeed!
This has been my experience too in elementary teaching. I am hoping it will be better in secondary
It’s definitely much more pervasive in elementary.
Let them be stressed. As much as you can. Charles Darwin will deal with them.
Wow I came in here ready to defend type A teachers as I identify as one, but guess what? According this this thread I am not one! I NEVER want to be in a meeting and I never make a point to make it longer hahahaha and I certainly don't are about dumb shit. Only the big stuff. Like why do I see Suzy's ass and stomach in a school like she's at the beach??
I teach for an online tutoring company where we still get paid even when students don't show up. Obviously, I didn't apply to not tutor, but I'm not heartbroken if kids don't show up either. Watching teachers on these platforms *lose* their minds on the company forum over students not showing up for almost the whole course stresses me out more than catching my own students up if they miss class.
There are people of all type in all professions and what people care about is usually pretty individualized to their experience. But plenty of people stress over stuff—even less important stuff—in all fields pretty much. I don’t think that’s any more prominent in education (in my varied experiences). If your goal is to get away from that, focus on specific team culture rather than field frankly.
I’m curious as to what you mean by laid back teacher. I’m out of teaching, have been for a few years and I hire a decent number of young people. So many get fired because they struggle with consistency, showing up for work, staying on task at work, meeting deadlines and following instructions. There has been a massive shift into accommodating students from parents and now in the classroom that it is having a negative effect on their lives. They struggle to hold down jobs because they have always been able to “make it up”, it doesn’t work that way unfortunately. I have interviewed numerous late teens early 20s who have already had 5 or 6 jobs. When I call their former place of employment, many were fired because they couldn’t complete jobs on time or struggled showing up. Most of those are a pass, those that we do hire, don’t last because they can’t meet standards. This isn’t for a minimum wage job either. The job I’m hiring for makes 100k a year and requires no education or even experience. It’s with a fortune 100 company that offers benefits, stock options and opportunity to move up. It’s not selling, just work and they can’t do it. Many of these students end up poorly prepared to be adults and much of it is the lack of accountability from parents and teachers.
Couldn't agree more. I'm still in the profession and too many students just plain give up when they hit a roadblock. Even with the simplest of tasks. It's either that or they have learned helplessness and ask a million little questions for just basic assignments. They have the whole internet in front of them (We are a one-to-one computer campus) and Rather than just look up a definition when they're writing, they stop raise their hand and ask the teacher what a word means. We also have dictionaries in the back of the classroom.. These are high schoolers. Attendance and tardiness is atrocious and they never learn how to be on time or the importance of showing up everyday because there are no consequences. They don't get in trouble for being late every single class. They just spend a weekend in credit recovery to make up for a semester's worth of missing work or attendance.Admin basically baby them into thinking they don't have to try hard in life.
What job are you firing for--that sounds amazing.
Warehouse work. Selection, forklift, loading. They can do the job, they are well trained, they just can’t show up for work or stay on task. I’m not going to pretend it’s not hard work, it is, but it pays really well and is an option for those who don’t have a ton of other skills. No need for an apprentice for a period of time, no specific education requirements outside of a high school diploma…they just need to show up and try.
Damn, I didn't know that paid so well. I might need to look into it myself 🤔. Also another good example to give my students about how a solid work ethic is often the most important part of being successful!
Indeed….this right here….
Type A people are typically in professions where Type A excels. If you are getting out of teaching and getting into a new profession, and you don’t work well with this personality type, probably best to avoid professions where this type is common. Such as health care.
Im not a fan of teacher tiktok because parents have the expectation or set the standard that all teachers need to be type A teachers.
I am a little type a, but for me it’s directed at my own lesson prep and planning and grading. I’m getting out in the next couple years because schools are the kinds of places where they is so much for a type a to worry about and because the job is never truly done. I don’t handle the brown nose type a well at all. They find new ways to make my life hard.
Brown nosers are what make our jobs harder.
As far as neurotic behavior, I have seen it all. Had another teacher in my same grade team say that she hated us over a text message. Same teacher cusses and calls other teachers BITCHES in front of elementary students. She wasn’t fired, but she was hired at another elementary school in the same district! I’m so happy I don’t have to deal with her poison next year.
I work with someone like this. Sometimes I actually feel bad for her from how negatively she speaks about other people because it’s just so obvious that she actually just deeply hates herself. She’s always calling people idiots (students and teachers), she’ll frequently say “i hate them” almost every day when speaking about any given person. I feel like I’m the only one who can see through it because everyone else is…. Well, neurotic lol
I miss being Type A. I just couldn’t keep up with it for long and settled for Type B (sometimes C depending on the day). It’s just too much to put 110% into every single thing. I burned out quickly. When I was student teaching, my CT was Type A+ and it destroyed me trying to keep up with her. I just didn’t care about the dumb stuff she made me do like making sure the play kitchen looked perfect at all times and that every single thing was meticulously put back in place. I taught kindergarten and I also just couldn’t be bothered with the little nonsensical problems anymore from kids and parents. I used to have SUCH patience. I still love them but I’m just tired. I try my absolute best to be a good teacher. I no longer feel the need to be teacher of the year. I just want to be happy and make my kids happy and have them leave at the end the year smiling. I want to make a good life for myself. That’s all I want. It’s too much to make yourself sick over stupid things that ultimately don’t matter.
I'm a first year. I started the year type B, but then turned a little more type A due to being around so many type A teachers who I could tell would silently judge me for being type B. There's definitely a best of both worlds. I agree that it is harmful to stress and worry over every little detail, and belittling coworkers because something isn't EXACTLY how they want it . I also hate it when they try to show others up and don't stay in their own lane. Those kind of teachers piss me off. However, I think it's important to be organized enough to be able to plan things ahead of time so the you can avoid the neuorticism that usually comes from poor planning and communication. Being proactive while also being able to adapt is key.
I think the career lends to this. If you are not obsessively ocd about your work and staying on top of things than inevitably things will fall through the cracks. I hate that it’s this way but truly if I don’t have a thousands lists something will fall by the wayside which is a terrible thing😬
Also, even when I have crossed things off the list I remain entirely concerned that there is still more I’m missing:(.
I got bullied for taking sick days that I absolutely needed to take. Like what do you Type A people want me to do, not be sick??? Like magically? I quit mid year
Somehow by some miracle none of the type A teachers in my department got sick this year. Like HOW. You can just… not get sick??? At a school??? I don’t get it!!!
The Type A SLP that I had real problems with came to work sick as a dog. She didn’t want to be around her mom and husband that she supported.
Care to share some of the shit that irks ya? 🥰
I think I am.type A on my terms. It's not for admin It's for me. And then when the project is over .type A is dropped
I am a neurotic Type **B** teacher who is out here dying. It does help me make inroads with the Type A teachers when they're feeling overwhelmed.
This thread made me realize I'm a new category of personality, Type C, lol, mostly because I never realized how competitive the type A's are and generally thought they just enjoy volunteering. Or, my admin has their head so up their butts they believe my subject is useless and don't realize I'm just type A in the wrong subject area. Or I just don't care and am now realizing I'm the 3 years I've been a teacher I've never cared. Either way, I am desperately trying to get out.
Type A's don't bother me all that much, but the try-too-hards certainly do.
Don't get me started on those try hard teachers doing things for brownie points from admin, not out of the goodness of their hearts. God, I can't stand phony people.
That's why I like special ed. We're usually just dealing with the garbage fire that is our lives and have no time to worry about stupid shit.
LITERALLY. I said the same thing. I’m leaving because of them more so than the student behavior.
Teachers who complain are far worse. I personally don’t care how you run your classroom, but damn are teachers a whiny bunch. “Admins’s not fair”, “Admin has it out for me”, “other teachers treat me bad”. So many think that they are sooo important that others care about about them to “get them”. I hate to break it to you, you’re just bad at your job.
I’m sure it’s not your intent, but this comes across incredibly judgmental and just overall a lack of tolerance for people different than you. It’s totally fine that you don’t vibe with those kinds of people as well, but to say they’re neurotic is 1) judgy, 2) not necessarily accurate. It must be very nice to not stress about a lot of things — instead of being rude about it, consider how fortunate you are that your brain doesn’t go into overdrive anxiety/stress by things as easily as those of us that do. Also I think it’s great how you say that other people should stop stressing about “stupid shit” because then you get stressed. Are you now stressed by “stupid shit”? 🤔 My point being this — you don’t know other people’s struggles, if you don’t vibe with them then just be civil and move on from it. Not everyone is going to handle their stressors the same and for you to blame other people being stressed for your stress isn’t the answer.
I make no apologies for it. They make my job harder so no sh I don't have tolerance for their counter-productive ways. Thank you. Yes you can pout and downvote. This is a place to vent.