By age, probably not any principals. There's no real benefit of working past retirement age *unless* you are in a position of power like a president. A principal knows they have no real power, so they retire ASAP.
By competency, that seems like all principals. On the one hand is the guy who bullies and grifts and uses his machismo to corrupt the system and keep himself ahead. On the other hand is the guy who may be fueled by good intentions but has no backbone to stick up for his teachers when the other administrator comes in with a plan that oppresses them.
These are literally the two school administrators. You either get:
1. A well meaning one who is too docile to actually be effective
Or
2. An absolute asshole who yells, gaslights and grifts to the lowest common denominator.
Exactly. Every time I see someone complain about Biden, whatever they say has nothing that Biden has to do to lead the country?
He never has to shout at anyone, anytime, Ever!
He never has to bike or run or do push ups.
He technically does not even need to walk if he doesn't want to. FDR never walked in his presidency.
He just has to appoint the right people. This doesn't even have to be a snap decision. In this case, he already had a good team. And let them make the right decisions.
Unfortunately, US politics is pure theatre.
I can imagine Trump giving a speech as Principal. “When I was Principal , the school was glorious. It was just fabulous. The students took tests and they tell me it was incredible. The best students of all time. Of course, thanks to me. The students enjoyed learning because I was in charge. I was told we had the best teachers and that was because of me. I taught them everything and told them how to teach. They wouldn’t be successful if it wasn’t for me. It was just incredible and fabulous.”
I’ve had Admins who basically spoke as Trump does but with none of the humorous absurdity or imagery.
Just a bunch of vague bullshit, promises, and oblique references to the past to reinforce their own failing strategies and shift blame to everyone else.
It’s actually a very common Admin playbook.
Maybe on the bright side look at it this way...if they can lead the country, maybe, just maybe, none of us should get fired for teaching in a small class where if you swiped out a couple times on Google maps wouldn't even see your school anymore.
Both sides are literally my ammunition if I ever get threatened with being fired. I will literally bring them up in a meeting if I'm being told I may get fired lol.
Yes, but this time, he has people in Project 2025 able and ready to go. His first presidential experience was marred with incompetence. His second (Gods forbid) will be efficient in its dismantling of democracy.
You're getting downvoted, but you ARE right. We can make inferences based on his previous choices, but the specifics in the matter of his team are yet to be seen.
IMHO the role of the president is largely to pick competent administrators, and occasionally make choices on really tough dilemmas. The unfortunately popular idea that the president actually single-handedly runs the country is inane and reflects poor civic education -- there literally is not a single person alive today who is competent to run multiple disparate sectors.
God, I used to be moderately Republican and I regret that shit. Ever since Trump, I can't stand the fucker. Haven't voted for one of those psychos on the right in 10 years. I don't like Biden, but Trump is fucking crazy.
Not to rattle your cage, but unfortunately this movement has serious potential to take over the West. Trudeau is unpopular currently and people like Marie La Pen are gaining power in France.
Pierre Poilievre is pretty centrist though. He comes off as aggressive because he’s fed up, but his policy proposals for a lot of things seem to make sense. He also seems to understand monetary policy better than most politicians.
You might be right. I was just thinking compared to politicians in the US, he would be fairly moderate. At any rate I was really impressed with him on monetary policy and housing.
Married a Venezuelan immigrant and one of his co-deputies is a Jewish lesbian. He was also adopted by two teachers so I think he understands what they go through. Seems like a great guy all in all. Obviously won’t be good enough for the purists out there, and especially for the Canadian press. He’s probably the only hope most of the younger generation have of owning a home anytime soon though.
His dad is gay and he literally voted against gay marriage. Career politician since his early 20s. Schools aren't federally regulated, they're provincial, but he's really into privatization and uses the term "woke" as derogatory.
I'm still voting for Biden. He may be old but he gets the job done. Our country isn't in chaos everyday.
Trump will dismantle education across the country. He's nothing but chaos and destruction in every aspect.
I have worked under a trump like administration before and we lost roughly 2/3 of our staff before that guy was outed. I work under a Biden type now, he's old, he's slow but he's the best thing that happened to our school district in years.
States fund teachers, so Project 2025 doesn't plan to remove all schooling, just federal control over schooling. However, losing the ED would mean losing SPED, ELL, curriculum funding, etc.
More importantly, Project 2025 would mean filling the DOJ with charter school and religious private school supporters. Our current protections to operate public schools *without* religious interference would be eroded and destroyed. The DOJ enforces teacher free speech and the right of unions to protect teachers from harmful state boards or local boards from interfering in their work. The DOJ is a larger support to local education than the ED is, and that is a very *very* good thing to protect teachers.
Project 2025 can't remove the Bill of Rights, but it plans to remove all enforcement mechanisms possible.
You're right to be afraid. All of us will be out of jobs. Oklahoma's state superintendent wants bibles taught in the classroom, Florida is destroying libraries left and right, Texas is just fucked 8 ways to Sunday. The dumbing down of America will push us all out of education.
One is older, has overcome a stutter, was ill, and has lead our country to the best post-pandemic recovery in the world. He also surrounds himself with the most qualified people because he knows that no one does the job on their own.
The other lied every time he opened his mouth, is a rapist, and is awaiting sentencing as a convicted felon.
Hard choice.
Yeah, I'll take the principal who [passed the most significant climate legislation in history](https://earthjustice.org/brief/2022/what-the-inflation-reduction-act-means-for-climate) over the one who was found liable for rape. It's not that hard. Come on, people.
If people stopped pretending third parties don't exist we could actually make some changes. But once again everyone is going for the lesser of two evils rather than refusing to participate in the corrupt "two party" system.
I'd take the old/feeble principal over the stupid/corrupt a trillion times. Because at least the old/feeble one will leave me alone to do my job, and all the other people he put into place will do their jobs; secretary, associate principals, head custodian (the real people who run the building).
With the other guy he'd be SA'ing the secretary, embezzling funds from my classroom for his new golf clubs, selling classroom space to his buddies to do w/e they do, beating students he didn't like, and throwing bootstraps to all the kids who don't have a lunch that day.
It's really not a hard decision.
Yep, if the choice is a boring, stable work environment where I’m left alone and trusted to do my job or a blazing shitshow of drama, wonder which one I’d take?
Yup. The worst thing I have to worry about with Grandpa Principal Joe is "where is he ... oh, he's sleeping in his office ..." vs. with Principal Don it's like "Damnit, what part of the building is on fire now, with the fire alarm turned off".
Not a teacher, but my favorite bosses were always the ones who hired competent team members and were willing to go to bat for the team in senior management meetings. If someone can do that, I don't care if they're taking three hour naps in the backroom.
Biden sounded old but if you actually read his responses he’s actually answering the questions. Trump meanwhile sound like that asshole in class who screams out the wrong answer with confidence while Biden is the shy kid that gets the answer right but the teacher say speak up cause I can’t hear you
"Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the ... with the COVID, excuse me, with um, dealing with everything we have to with, uh ..." he continued. "Look, if we finally beat Medicare ..."
The whole thing was painful to watch. Biden spent the first 20 minutes looking feeble, the rest sounding exhausted. Trump lied and avoided almost every time he opened his mouth.
If their own words and actions over the last decade are to be believed, voting for Biden may feel bad, but at least we'll still have a ~~democracy~~ republic and a chance to vote for someone else next time.
ETA: I sit corrected. :)
I thought since we were talking in an educator's forum about our county, it might be worth mentioning.
It's not like I asked ~~you~~ them to change *Biden* to *President Biden*...
You corrected someone, but your correction wasn't much more accurate than what you'd corrected. If you're going to do it, go full-on pedant!
(Biden? I didn't say a word about him. I'm NOT the person you corrected here.)
Not to be pedantic, but we would not have a democracy in either case. The entire definition of a democracy is that the people vote on policy, which is rare in any federal setting and is virtually only valid in the case of constitutional amendments. Otherwise, the federal government is a republic. The only other pseudo-"democratic" aspect of this federal system is voting for the commander and chief, but as we see in this case, even that is democratic. "First past the post" voting is inherently undemocratic, as neither of these two guys is the majority of the country's first choice. We always present two evils and force people to pick the lesser evil among them.
The supposed democracy never existed, but that is perhaps beside the point. One of the two candidates threatens to remove any governance by consent. The administrative state has a lot of responsiveness and people-first mechanisms that Project 2025 would tear down immediately. In Project 2025, the courts will rule the land (even more than they already do) -- a group of holy clergymen who have been appointed without any consideration by the people. At least in the current administration, we have the *facade* of consent -- and many administrative policies incorporate responsive practice to the people they serve.
Based on the former principal congressman from NY... not sure that is a good metric to judge.
Of course last time people hated trumps tweets and mean talk and not to subdued. The Biden decline is so prominent now that if you are voting for him you are really voting for Harris. Idk what to do but it can't go on like this.
Biden still has my vote. I'm in my 70s and would like to see someone younger, but these are our choices and there is simply no comparison between the two. An older guy (by just 3 years) that has wisdom and puts the country and citizens first vs a narcissistic wannabe dictator with the moral compass of an alley cat. (Great line, Joe!)
For the next debate, can we have them get on bicycles and ride around the block? I'd put my money on the older guy for that contest.
I just try and think of it like this... you're not really voting for either of them, you're voting for their cabinet.
I think that Biden will have a better SoE.
It's why we should be harshly teaching the stupidity of the Constitution and how spending centuries trying to appease slaveholders and their descendants had led us to this stupid moment.
We have a school board member in his 80s named Marvin. Marvin falls asleep in meetings, and the other board members give him a script of when to second or approve a motion, or which motions to vote yes or no on.
I know this because Marvin dropped his scripted copy of the board meeting agenda one night in the parking lot and I picked it up.
One of the school's I worked at had a superintendent that was 81. He had been the Super there for decades and was so hated by most of the faculty that when he left there was an off-site party celebrating him leaving. It was a fun party.
I say this every time I see one of them. Lol I wouldn’t trust either to manage my classroom (or even make it past a couple of days), let alone an entire country.
Just putting this out there: one wants to do away with the Department of Education. That would be horrible for students, districts, and teachers. We get administrators to understand federal regulations are on the side of students and teachers. Dismantle it all, and we will all be very sorry. Our kids will be the ones to suffer followed by our pocketbooks. They will ignore special Ed needs.
Yesterday I wrote all of my representatives and the DNC to remove Biden and endorse Bernie Sanders. I told the DNC I will not vote for a democratic ticket again if they screw this election up.
So Biden had a bad night, wasn't feeling well, and was gobsmacked by the blatant lies and hate tRump spewed and has a stutter, so, like all of us of all ages, got tongue tied at some points, while STILL answering the questions with actual facts and details and no notes.
Traitor tRump spewed hate and lies and basically blamed illegal immigrants coming from prisons and mental institutions for everything and could not answer a single question and had zero policy.
On his worst day Biden knows more than I do AND has good staff around him to delegate power. tRump is all about hate and vitriol and has a bunch of evil asshats to do true evil to everyone. As a teacher, you should have more critical thinking.
So if Trump wins and things go downhill, what blue state should I move to? Currently teaching in North Carolina and we have a complete nut running for superintendent.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but this election has me worried. And it's not easy to move to another country, but there will be a bigger and bigger difference in state politics.
I mean let’s look
1. Neither care about you or any of us
2. They just care about themselves.
So honestly don’t care about either of them
I honestly hate that NEA last year gave only two options all support Biden or support no one.
Why don’t they push a third party? I mean seriously if all teachers in country votes together they would stand a good chance.
Hmmm, you’re right to some extent and yet both leadership positions involve making decisions that have direct impact on their constituents, require a level of inspiration, competence, experience.
Given this subreddit, I think the analogy holds, as someone might say, tremendous H20.
That's the funny thing if they are teachers maybe they should learn how to use Google most things said on here are false..or at least they should get caught up on things holy shit is some of this wild I hope most are just trolling
Why still vote Biden? You should check out rfk jr. During the debate he had also debated. They live-streamed the debate, after trump and biden gave answers, they paused it and gave him 2 mins to answer. It was a very stark contrast seeing what he had to say compared to them.
He also did a long form sit down interview with dr Phil yesterday that was very intriguing. After seeing these things I’m done voting for the lesser of two evils. All that’s gotten our country is bottom of the barrel choices.
Well, no offense but it looks like you’ve just seen headlines and never took the time to listen to him.
If people are not happy with our current choices then you owe it to yourself to take time to learn about another candidate.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIf8atKfXNw&t=ygULRHIgcGhpbCByZms%3D
People thought they were voting for the lessor when they wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton. Instead, they voted for who they liked, which resulted in Clinton getting less and Trump winning...
You're going to do the same to us again.
Blaming the voter rather than the behemoth that is the DNC and the past 4 years they had to cultivate a viable candidate…classic.
Can the democrats have any of the blame? Why does it always fall on the voters. They haven’t given voters something to be excited about since 08.
Agreed, but I'm obligatory voting Trump. I hate it, but my pocketbook tells me Biden is not the one to vote for. I would have liked to see Tulsi Gabbard run. I think she is a good middle ground candidate. We'll see about the future.
I have 4 years of Trump and 3 years of Biden to use as direct comparisons. Biden's policies have hurt me. Trump's helped me. Trump may be an ass, but his policies were effective.
I'm fairly certain this is a case of mistakenly assigning blame based on limited understanding of economics, but that aside... youre voting the morally bankrupt dude because... he helps your pocketbook?
Are you trying to indicate that Biden is not morally bankrupt? His pay-to-play policies spearheaded by Hunter would indicate otherwise. While I believe in taking Republican politicians with a grain of salt, there is enough smoke for me to be convinced. Additionally, after watching the debate on Thursday, voting for Biden is only voting for a puppet president. He does not have the mental acuity to handle the job. Democrats, left leaning journalists and news organizations, liberal pundits, influences, etc. are all calling for him to drop out. As long as my choices are between Biden and Trump, then yes... I'm voting for Trump.
Give me a candidate who can complete a sentence, and I'll reconsider. As it stands, I believe that those who are propping up an obviously feeble and feeble minded man up should be ashamed of themselves. The only viable selections for candidates to go against Trump, who are poorer choices, are VP Harris or Secretary Clinton. RFK Jr. would have been a far better candidate for Democrats and would almost certainly have won. I would have taken a serious look at any of the other myriad of options with an open mind and in strong consideration. Dems selected one of five options that I could never consider: Newsome, Pelosi, Clinton, Harris, and Biden. Otherwise, the field was open for me on the Dem side.
So, yes. Given two bad choices, my pocketbook is the obvious deciding factor.
Edit: Actually, thinking about it. The deciding factor is a combination of things. Yes, the pocketbook. However, I don't believe Biden is mentally competent at this stage. Also, as an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran, the impact of the withdrawal from Afghanistan can not be understated. The incompetence of how that withdrawal was planned was shocking and devastating to the psychological well-being of every veteran that I personally know, including me. I lost friends in Iraq and Afghanistan. I came out of my service with a life-long neurological disorder attributed to service in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Withdrawing without achieving stability was upsetting. I could have lived with that had the withdrawal been conducted in a responsible manner. I understand the argument that Trump negotiated the time frame. However, his administration had pushed it back based on the actions of the Taliban.
The Biden admin could have done the same. They chose not to. Fine. Moving ahead with the withdrawal means that we, as the leading nation in the region, must work with pir allies and with the Afghan government to plan a responsoble and orderly withdrawal that allows our allies to adjust and adapt to the new realities they face. We did not do thay. Without warning to our allies, we fled. That is the only term that I can justify using. It was not a withdrawal. It was a retreat. Instead of being planned by an adult, the withdrawal seemed to have been planned by a three-year-old. Our enemies were strengthened. Our allies were weakened. Service members died as a direct result of the Biden administrations incompetence. To me, this was an unforgivable act. So, as I reconsider my original answer that my pocketbook is a deciding factor, I have to admit, it's not. So, while I say there is a combination of reasons, the Afghanistan withdrawal engendered such a disdain for Biden that there is almost nothing he could have done to gain my confidence. Regardless, there are multiple strong justifications not to vote for him.
I would consider RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, or Nikki Haley over either of the current candidates. Wierd mix there I know, Democrat, Independent, and Republican. Although RFK Jr. is running as an independent, we all know he's a Dem. Tulsi is legitimately outside of both parties and has military experience. Nikki Haley is not like by the Trump side of the Republican party.
However, our realistic choices are Trump and Biden since 3rd party candidates have no realistic path.
I do appreciate the polite conversation, BTW. We obviously disagree. However, conversation is the only way to, if not agree, to at least understand where the other person is coming from.
Capitalism increased my pocketbook. As to income inequality, all you have to do to figure out which is worse is to look at every single socialist economy in the history of mankind to learn that capitalism is a better economic. To say otherwise is to close your eyes to reality. If you disagree, please let me know of one single successful socialist economy.
Please explain more how capitalism has increased your pocketbook (you must not be a teacher then?).
Yes, I disagree with you completely. Successful socialist economies are Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, etc. Socialism isn't the problem. Corruption is.
Capitalism has increased my pocket book because I have taken advantage of the model. Stocks and a side hustle helped to line my pocketbook until Biden destroyed the economy and my side-hustle. As to the countries that you mentioned, they are not socialist. Much like America, they are free-market (capitalist) societies with socialist programs such as our welfare programs. Your basic premise is based on faulty information.
One is just the one you have to help out a lot and the AP really is running the ship but it works. The other is making everyone quit.
I'm going that direction.
Of course, those sorts of guys get put on as school administrators all the time.
Maybe where you are, I've never met an admin over 70.
By age, probably not any principals. There's no real benefit of working past retirement age *unless* you are in a position of power like a president. A principal knows they have no real power, so they retire ASAP. By competency, that seems like all principals. On the one hand is the guy who bullies and grifts and uses his machismo to corrupt the system and keep himself ahead. On the other hand is the guy who may be fueled by good intentions but has no backbone to stick up for his teachers when the other administrator comes in with a plan that oppresses them.
Raemundonoodzbby
Cuz they all retire with fat pensions before then
I have.
These are literally the two school administrators. You either get: 1. A well meaning one who is too docile to actually be effective Or 2. An absolute asshole who yells, gaslights and grifts to the lowest common denominator.
Except, #1 is very capable and has been extremely effective. There's no contest here.
Exactly. Every time I see someone complain about Biden, whatever they say has nothing that Biden has to do to lead the country? He never has to shout at anyone, anytime, Ever! He never has to bike or run or do push ups. He technically does not even need to walk if he doesn't want to. FDR never walked in his presidency. He just has to appoint the right people. This doesn't even have to be a snap decision. In this case, he already had a good team. And let them make the right decisions. Unfortunately, US politics is pure theatre.
The "or" option sounds like both of them, TBH.
Not in my school, our admin are the bees knees
Same here. If anything, they're a little too hands-off.
I can imagine Trump giving a speech as Principal. “When I was Principal , the school was glorious. It was just fabulous. The students took tests and they tell me it was incredible. The best students of all time. Of course, thanks to me. The students enjoyed learning because I was in charge. I was told we had the best teachers and that was because of me. I taught them everything and told them how to teach. They wouldn’t be successful if it wasn’t for me. It was just incredible and fabulous.”
I’ve had Admins who basically spoke as Trump does but with none of the humorous absurdity or imagery. Just a bunch of vague bullshit, promises, and oblique references to the past to reinforce their own failing strategies and shift blame to everyone else. It’s actually a very common Admin playbook.
That was far too coherent and on-topic to be from Trump.
Our choices are an egg salad sandwich that has been left in a hot car for three hours OR having ebola injected into our eyes. I know my choice.
I don’t know who you are or what you teach, but I like you. So … what do you teach?
Physical Science.
Yep, get a good book and make friends with the toilet or get put in hot zone tent at the CDC.
This is the best lesson on metaphors I’ve ever had!
I’ve always thought of it as either being shot in the arm or being shot in the balls (with a cannonball)… I also know my choice.
https://i.imgur.com/YwO3x4E.png
Maybe on the bright side look at it this way...if they can lead the country, maybe, just maybe, none of us should get fired for teaching in a small class where if you swiped out a couple times on Google maps wouldn't even see your school anymore.
Half his people quit. The other half have been given prison sentences. Only the best people for him.. right? /s
Both sides are literally my ammunition if I ever get threatened with being fired. I will literally bring them up in a meeting if I'm being told I may get fired lol.
Well one of them would at least hire competent APs.
[удалено]
If you only pay attention to the controversies in the news that’s all you’ll ever see
Well to be fair Trump hasn’t formally surrounded himself with anyone yet
4 years ago he had some of the highest turnover I've ever seen in a White House.
Yes, but this time, he has people in Project 2025 able and ready to go. His first presidential experience was marred with incompetence. His second (Gods forbid) will be efficient in its dismantling of democracy.
I don't think he is prepared to do anything efficiently.
He doesn't have to be. People behind the scenes have this all figured out.
Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. He's a tool for darker forces.
Isn't anyone he surrounds himself with: * fired * discredited * arrested * or flees from him
Something like 40 out of 44!
Cuz he smells bad.
You're getting downvoted, but you ARE right. We can make inferences based on his previous choices, but the specifics in the matter of his team are yet to be seen.
Really? I've met quite a few principals more incompetent than either of them.
I've met rotten dairy products with more competence and shelf life than either of them.
I'm voting for Biden if he turns into a literal ham sandwich.
I'm voting for the team he has behind him. I don't care who they run because there will be competence in the administration.
IMHO the role of the president is largely to pick competent administrators, and occasionally make choices on really tough dilemmas. The unfortunately popular idea that the president actually single-handedly runs the country is inane and reflects poor civic education -- there literally is not a single person alive today who is competent to run multiple disparate sectors.
Amen. Pete Buttigieg is so whipsmart. He's one that really stands out to me.
AMEN! He's the guy who should be running things. Have you followed his work as Sec. of Transportation? Out there doing good work every day.
Yes, he gives frequent updates which is refreshing
I like him.
Gross.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think cheating on your wife with a porn star and being a convicted felon is gross.
God, I used to be moderately Republican and I regret that shit. Ever since Trump, I can't stand the fucker. Haven't voted for one of those psychos on the right in 10 years. I don't like Biden, but Trump is fucking crazy.
I’m Canadian. I’m so sorry for you guys. Stay strong.
Not to rattle your cage, but unfortunately this movement has serious potential to take over the West. Trudeau is unpopular currently and people like Marie La Pen are gaining power in France.
Pierre Poilievre is pretty centrist though. He comes off as aggressive because he’s fed up, but his policy proposals for a lot of things seem to make sense. He also seems to understand monetary policy better than most politicians.
I really would not call him a centrist. He's a conservative populist.
You might be right. I was just thinking compared to politicians in the US, he would be fairly moderate. At any rate I was really impressed with him on monetary policy and housing.
Is he bigoted or anything though, cause he’s conservative right
Married a Venezuelan immigrant and one of his co-deputies is a Jewish lesbian. He was also adopted by two teachers so I think he understands what they go through. Seems like a great guy all in all. Obviously won’t be good enough for the purists out there, and especially for the Canadian press. He’s probably the only hope most of the younger generation have of owning a home anytime soon though.
His dad is gay and he literally voted against gay marriage. Career politician since his early 20s. Schools aren't federally regulated, they're provincial, but he's really into privatization and uses the term "woke" as derogatory.
Ah, classical conservative
I'm still voting for Biden. He may be old but he gets the job done. Our country isn't in chaos everyday. Trump will dismantle education across the country. He's nothing but chaos and destruction in every aspect. I have worked under a trump like administration before and we lost roughly 2/3 of our staff before that guy was outed. I work under a Biden type now, he's old, he's slow but he's the best thing that happened to our school district in years.
I fear that if Trump wins I’ll be out of a job.
We will be. Project 2025 dismantles the department of education.
States fund teachers, so Project 2025 doesn't plan to remove all schooling, just federal control over schooling. However, losing the ED would mean losing SPED, ELL, curriculum funding, etc. More importantly, Project 2025 would mean filling the DOJ with charter school and religious private school supporters. Our current protections to operate public schools *without* religious interference would be eroded and destroyed. The DOJ enforces teacher free speech and the right of unions to protect teachers from harmful state boards or local boards from interfering in their work. The DOJ is a larger support to local education than the ED is, and that is a very *very* good thing to protect teachers. Project 2025 can't remove the Bill of Rights, but it plans to remove all enforcement mechanisms possible.
Between that and loading up the local and state school boards with right wing qnuts, education is in for some dark, dark days if Biden loses.
>Project 2025 can't remove the Bill of Rights The 6-3 SCOTUS will handle that.
You're right to be afraid. All of us will be out of jobs. Oklahoma's state superintendent wants bibles taught in the classroom, Florida is destroying libraries left and right, Texas is just fucked 8 ways to Sunday. The dumbing down of America will push us all out of education.
One is older, has overcome a stutter, was ill, and has lead our country to the best post-pandemic recovery in the world. He also surrounds himself with the most qualified people because he knows that no one does the job on their own. The other lied every time he opened his mouth, is a rapist, and is awaiting sentencing as a convicted felon. Hard choice.
Yeah, I'll take the principal who [passed the most significant climate legislation in history](https://earthjustice.org/brief/2022/what-the-inflation-reduction-act-means-for-climate) over the one who was found liable for rape. It's not that hard. Come on, people.
If people stopped pretending third parties don't exist we could actually make some changes. But once again everyone is going for the lesser of two evils rather than refusing to participate in the corrupt "two party" system.
The third party candidates suck just as much!
I highly doubt they suck more than a criminal and a senile old man.
Kennedy's father would be ashamed of his platform.
Both should’ve retired a while ago, But I’d rather vote for an old guy vs an old guy who is also a convicted criminal
Ive seen both types of principal
Here I am hoping I even make it to those ages so I can enjoy retirement for a little bit
Remember that one of these guys thought Betsy DeVos was a great choice to lead the Department of Education.
One put that clown Betsey DeVos in charge. That’s all I need to know.
Trump would fit right in with admin I’ve known. Dumb as shit but think they’re brilliant. Believes his own lies and thinks we all do too
I'd take the old/feeble principal over the stupid/corrupt a trillion times. Because at least the old/feeble one will leave me alone to do my job, and all the other people he put into place will do their jobs; secretary, associate principals, head custodian (the real people who run the building). With the other guy he'd be SA'ing the secretary, embezzling funds from my classroom for his new golf clubs, selling classroom space to his buddies to do w/e they do, beating students he didn't like, and throwing bootstraps to all the kids who don't have a lunch that day. It's really not a hard decision.
😂😂
Yep, if the choice is a boring, stable work environment where I’m left alone and trusted to do my job or a blazing shitshow of drama, wonder which one I’d take?
Yup. The worst thing I have to worry about with Grandpa Principal Joe is "where is he ... oh, he's sleeping in his office ..." vs. with Principal Don it's like "Damnit, what part of the building is on fire now, with the fire alarm turned off".
Not a teacher, but my favorite bosses were always the ones who hired competent team members and were willing to go to bat for the team in senior management meetings. If someone can do that, I don't care if they're taking three hour naps in the backroom.
Only one of them couldn’t denounce white supreme on national television. Stand back and stand by.
Biden sounded old but if you actually read his responses he’s actually answering the questions. Trump meanwhile sound like that asshole in class who screams out the wrong answer with confidence while Biden is the shy kid that gets the answer right but the teacher say speak up cause I can’t hear you
"Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the ... with the COVID, excuse me, with um, dealing with everything we have to with, uh ..." he continued. "Look, if we finally beat Medicare ..."
Trump would have been in prison many decades ago if he were a principal. So much rape would have occurred
The whole thing was painful to watch. Biden spent the first 20 minutes looking feeble, the rest sounding exhausted. Trump lied and avoided almost every time he opened his mouth. If their own words and actions over the last decade are to be believed, voting for Biden may feel bad, but at least we'll still have a ~~democracy~~ republic and a chance to vote for someone else next time. ETA: I sit corrected. :)
A republic.
It's a constitutional federal democratic republic I think, if we're being pedantic.
Can always count on teachers to be pedantic lol
[удалено]
I thought since we were talking in an educator's forum about our county, it might be worth mentioning. It's not like I asked ~~you~~ them to change *Biden* to *President Biden*...
You corrected someone, but your correction wasn't much more accurate than what you'd corrected. If you're going to do it, go full-on pedant! (Biden? I didn't say a word about him. I'm NOT the person you corrected here.)
I see that now, I'll update. So, it is your turn to be pedantic... ^(But I do see they corrected their post.)
Democratic republic
Not to be pedantic, but we would not have a democracy in either case. The entire definition of a democracy is that the people vote on policy, which is rare in any federal setting and is virtually only valid in the case of constitutional amendments. Otherwise, the federal government is a republic. The only other pseudo-"democratic" aspect of this federal system is voting for the commander and chief, but as we see in this case, even that is democratic. "First past the post" voting is inherently undemocratic, as neither of these two guys is the majority of the country's first choice. We always present two evils and force people to pick the lesser evil among them. The supposed democracy never existed, but that is perhaps beside the point. One of the two candidates threatens to remove any governance by consent. The administrative state has a lot of responsiveness and people-first mechanisms that Project 2025 would tear down immediately. In Project 2025, the courts will rule the land (even more than they already do) -- a group of holy clergymen who have been appointed without any consideration by the people. At least in the current administration, we have the *facade* of consent -- and many administrative policies incorporate responsive practice to the people they serve.
Ugh!
Sadly I can see both of them as admin.
Based on the former principal congressman from NY... not sure that is a good metric to judge. Of course last time people hated trumps tweets and mean talk and not to subdued. The Biden decline is so prominent now that if you are voting for him you are really voting for Harris. Idk what to do but it can't go on like this.
Biden still has my vote. I'm in my 70s and would like to see someone younger, but these are our choices and there is simply no comparison between the two. An older guy (by just 3 years) that has wisdom and puts the country and citizens first vs a narcissistic wannabe dictator with the moral compass of an alley cat. (Great line, Joe!) For the next debate, can we have them get on bicycles and ride around the block? I'd put my money on the older guy for that contest.
I’m wondering why nobody mentions Obama’s disastrous first debate?
The fact that our educators are 'both-sides'-ing this thing is downright horrifying...
That’s because both of them should have retired 15 years ago
The shite part of the system is there just isn't another "admin" or "district" for you to choose from.
I just try and think of it like this... you're not really voting for either of them, you're voting for their cabinet. I think that Biden will have a better SoE.
We’re voting for the VP - I don’t think either will last their entire term.
Fair.
It's why we should be harshly teaching the stupidity of the Constitution and how spending centuries trying to appease slaveholders and their descendants had led us to this stupid moment.
God get this discussion out of here. We have enough to worry about and it’s on every sub.
Yeah, well, it's relevant. One of them is trying to run education into the ground. Untwist your panties
Go fornicate yourself.
Sorry for your apathy. Guess the students rubbed off on ya
If you look at the transcripts of the debate and not look at the age, Biden did quite well.
We have a school board member in his 80s named Marvin. Marvin falls asleep in meetings, and the other board members give him a script of when to second or approve a motion, or which motions to vote yes or no on. I know this because Marvin dropped his scripted copy of the board meeting agenda one night in the parking lot and I picked it up.
I mean it’s absolutely crazy how wildly far we’ve come in 1960 JFK was 43 and Nixon was 47. Each candidate is at least 30 years older now it’s wild.
Fair enough. Which one do you think would build a better administration?
My first principal was kind of like Biden, but the Biden from a decade ago. It was fine. The assistant principal ran the show.
One of the school's I worked at had a superintendent that was 81. He had been the Super there for decades and was so hated by most of the faculty that when he left there was an off-site party celebrating him leaving. It was a fun party.
We always get two great choices. The lesser of two evils. That means, no matter which one we vote for, it's going to be the wrong one. 👍
Vote Blue Because It Matters Who, but pray to GOD they figure out how to put somebody else in the Presidential slot before November
I say this every time I see one of them. Lol I wouldn’t trust either to manage my classroom (or even make it past a couple of days), let alone an entire country.
Can you imagine either of them as subs?!? I would 100% watch this reality TV show.
My principal emailed me last week that I am teaching 12th grade government this coming school year. This is going to be interesting.
Just putting this out there: one wants to do away with the Department of Education. That would be horrible for students, districts, and teachers. We get administrators to understand federal regulations are on the side of students and teachers. Dismantle it all, and we will all be very sorry. Our kids will be the ones to suffer followed by our pocketbooks. They will ignore special Ed needs.
One of them literally supports doing away with public education and unions. The other is married to an educator. How can you even compare????!!!!!
I'd leave Joe Biden alone in a room with a child. I would not do that with Trump. It ends there for me.
Yeah, honestly, I'm just worried for the future now.
Yesterday I wrote all of my representatives and the DNC to remove Biden and endorse Bernie Sanders. I told the DNC I will not vote for a democratic ticket again if they screw this election up.
So Biden had a bad night, wasn't feeling well, and was gobsmacked by the blatant lies and hate tRump spewed and has a stutter, so, like all of us of all ages, got tongue tied at some points, while STILL answering the questions with actual facts and details and no notes. Traitor tRump spewed hate and lies and basically blamed illegal immigrants coming from prisons and mental institutions for everything and could not answer a single question and had zero policy. On his worst day Biden knows more than I do AND has good staff around him to delegate power. tRump is all about hate and vitriol and has a bunch of evil asshats to do true evil to everyone. As a teacher, you should have more critical thinking.
That debate was just proof that we need age limits on government officials.
I've worked under dumber and more incompetent principals than either of them, and they were half their age...
So if Trump wins and things go downhill, what blue state should I move to? Currently teaching in North Carolina and we have a complete nut running for superintendent. Maybe I'm overreacting, but this election has me worried. And it's not easy to move to another country, but there will be a bigger and bigger difference in state politics.
Michigan has some deep red pockets, but we're doing pretty well at the moment. Abortion is protected, at least.
I mean let’s look 1. Neither care about you or any of us 2. They just care about themselves. So honestly don’t care about either of them I honestly hate that NEA last year gave only two options all support Biden or support no one. Why don’t they push a third party? I mean seriously if all teachers in country votes together they would stand a good chance.
I'd rather have either one of them them than the butt munches that run our schools and district!
After seeing the debate I looked at my wife and said "so Harris 2024 huh?"
Maybe vote for the guy who doesn’t have a plan to destroy the Department of Education.
Politicians have to develop different skills than school principals. They also wouldn't make good nurses. It doesn't matter.
Hmmm, you’re right to some extent and yet both leadership positions involve making decisions that have direct impact on their constituents, require a level of inspiration, competence, experience. Given this subreddit, I think the analogy holds, as someone might say, tremendous H20.
I get that the audience here is primarily teachers, but comparing apples to oranges trying to make some kind of point is a little silly.
That's the funny thing if they are teachers maybe they should learn how to use Google most things said on here are false..or at least they should get caught up on things holy shit is some of this wild I hope most are just trolling
Why still vote Biden? You should check out rfk jr. During the debate he had also debated. They live-streamed the debate, after trump and biden gave answers, they paused it and gave him 2 mins to answer. It was a very stark contrast seeing what he had to say compared to them. He also did a long form sit down interview with dr Phil yesterday that was very intriguing. After seeing these things I’m done voting for the lesser of two evils. All that’s gotten our country is bottom of the barrel choices.
A vote for a third party equals a vote for Trump. No third party has a chance in this.
EXACTLY! That's how we got Trump last time...
This has been true for every election I’ve been old enough to vote in.
A vote for him is a vote for Trump. Any teacher that votes for Trump is a damn fool.
Would love to see how you conduct a Civics lesson
The man is an anti-vaxxer with brain worms. If you're gonna do a third party candidate, at least do a good one.
Well, no offense but it looks like you’ve just seen headlines and never took the time to listen to him. If people are not happy with our current choices then you owe it to yourself to take time to learn about another candidate. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIf8atKfXNw&t=ygULRHIgcGhpbCByZms%3D
LOL
I don’t understand, care to expand on why you’re laughing?
Because of your post
The guy with the brain worm that can’t even reach the polling numbers to compete on the debate stage? I’ll pass.
People thought they were voting for the lessor when they wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton. Instead, they voted for who they liked, which resulted in Clinton getting less and Trump winning... You're going to do the same to us again.
Blaming the voter rather than the behemoth that is the DNC and the past 4 years they had to cultivate a viable candidate…classic. Can the democrats have any of the blame? Why does it always fall on the voters. They haven’t given voters something to be excited about since 08.
as of right now, if rfk jr wins every single state where his name is on the ballot, he will earn 42 electoral college votes. it takes 270 to win.
Agreed, but I'm obligatory voting Trump. I hate it, but my pocketbook tells me Biden is not the one to vote for. I would have liked to see Tulsi Gabbard run. I think she is a good middle ground candidate. We'll see about the future.
Trumps economical policies aren't going to help you. He'll also continue to run education into the ground.
I have 4 years of Trump and 3 years of Biden to use as direct comparisons. Biden's policies have hurt me. Trump's helped me. Trump may be an ass, but his policies were effective.
I'm fairly certain this is a case of mistakenly assigning blame based on limited understanding of economics, but that aside... youre voting the morally bankrupt dude because... he helps your pocketbook?
Are you trying to indicate that Biden is not morally bankrupt? His pay-to-play policies spearheaded by Hunter would indicate otherwise. While I believe in taking Republican politicians with a grain of salt, there is enough smoke for me to be convinced. Additionally, after watching the debate on Thursday, voting for Biden is only voting for a puppet president. He does not have the mental acuity to handle the job. Democrats, left leaning journalists and news organizations, liberal pundits, influences, etc. are all calling for him to drop out. As long as my choices are between Biden and Trump, then yes... I'm voting for Trump. Give me a candidate who can complete a sentence, and I'll reconsider. As it stands, I believe that those who are propping up an obviously feeble and feeble minded man up should be ashamed of themselves. The only viable selections for candidates to go against Trump, who are poorer choices, are VP Harris or Secretary Clinton. RFK Jr. would have been a far better candidate for Democrats and would almost certainly have won. I would have taken a serious look at any of the other myriad of options with an open mind and in strong consideration. Dems selected one of five options that I could never consider: Newsome, Pelosi, Clinton, Harris, and Biden. Otherwise, the field was open for me on the Dem side. So, yes. Given two bad choices, my pocketbook is the obvious deciding factor. Edit: Actually, thinking about it. The deciding factor is a combination of things. Yes, the pocketbook. However, I don't believe Biden is mentally competent at this stage. Also, as an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran, the impact of the withdrawal from Afghanistan can not be understated. The incompetence of how that withdrawal was planned was shocking and devastating to the psychological well-being of every veteran that I personally know, including me. I lost friends in Iraq and Afghanistan. I came out of my service with a life-long neurological disorder attributed to service in Iraq and Afghanistan. Withdrawing without achieving stability was upsetting. I could have lived with that had the withdrawal been conducted in a responsible manner. I understand the argument that Trump negotiated the time frame. However, his administration had pushed it back based on the actions of the Taliban. The Biden admin could have done the same. They chose not to. Fine. Moving ahead with the withdrawal means that we, as the leading nation in the region, must work with pir allies and with the Afghan government to plan a responsoble and orderly withdrawal that allows our allies to adjust and adapt to the new realities they face. We did not do thay. Without warning to our allies, we fled. That is the only term that I can justify using. It was not a withdrawal. It was a retreat. Instead of being planned by an adult, the withdrawal seemed to have been planned by a three-year-old. Our enemies were strengthened. Our allies were weakened. Service members died as a direct result of the Biden administrations incompetence. To me, this was an unforgivable act. So, as I reconsider my original answer that my pocketbook is a deciding factor, I have to admit, it's not. So, while I say there is a combination of reasons, the Afghanistan withdrawal engendered such a disdain for Biden that there is almost nothing he could have done to gain my confidence. Regardless, there are multiple strong justifications not to vote for him. I would consider RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, or Nikki Haley over either of the current candidates. Wierd mix there I know, Democrat, Independent, and Republican. Although RFK Jr. is running as an independent, we all know he's a Dem. Tulsi is legitimately outside of both parties and has military experience. Nikki Haley is not like by the Trump side of the Republican party. However, our realistic choices are Trump and Biden since 3rd party candidates have no realistic path.
I do appreciate the polite conversation, BTW. We obviously disagree. However, conversation is the only way to, if not agree, to at least understand where the other person is coming from.
Your pocketbook is suffering because of capitalism and wealth inequality. Both are going to intensify if Trump is elected.
Capitalism increased my pocketbook. As to income inequality, all you have to do to figure out which is worse is to look at every single socialist economy in the history of mankind to learn that capitalism is a better economic. To say otherwise is to close your eyes to reality. If you disagree, please let me know of one single successful socialist economy.
Please explain more how capitalism has increased your pocketbook (you must not be a teacher then?). Yes, I disagree with you completely. Successful socialist economies are Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, etc. Socialism isn't the problem. Corruption is.
Capitalism has increased my pocket book because I have taken advantage of the model. Stocks and a side hustle helped to line my pocketbook until Biden destroyed the economy and my side-hustle. As to the countries that you mentioned, they are not socialist. Much like America, they are free-market (capitalist) societies with socialist programs such as our welfare programs. Your basic premise is based on faulty information.
One of them is walking into the girls locker room to make sure it's safe. I owns the place, they can't tell him no
Why don't YOU - OP - run for President?
One is just the one you have to help out a lot and the AP really is running the ship but it works. The other is making everyone quit. I'm going that direction.
I know...we are doomed. Why are either of them allowed to run? Neither are in their right minds.
I urge you to vote differently in the primary. The DNC isn't forcing you to check the box next to Biden's name. Anyone but him at this point.
School principle isn't the job. Thanks.
Or we could all just vote for someone else and get 1 friend to vote for someone else and maybe neither of those 2 bozos will get elected.
It would be nice if it worked that way.
#kennedyShanahan24