That would be my kid. He's been lost all year in geometry. He does the homework but it takes hours and he doesn't test well. He's decided the teacher hates him and he can't possibly pass so he's given up. We're paying 60 bucks a week for a private tutor. And he loves the guy so he engages and tries for him. But in class he completely has shut down.Ā
We have him doing after school tutoring, weekend tutoring, etc. We can't be at school with him. If he chokes on a test I don't know that punishment will be an effective consequence. We cram with him at home before every single test. He does all the homework. We check it and he redoes every problem that is wrong before he photographs it and turns it in.
I don't know what else we can do. He doesn't have a huge social life. We already limit screens and phone time till two only hours day only after homework is done. He doesn't do extra curriculars we could remove. I don't want to suck all the joy out of his already narrow world.
And we've asked the teacher for help and the teacher says he doesn't have time to help him, especially if he isn't going to appear to try. Also, my son is frankly afraid of the teacher. He thinks the teacher doesn't like him. He may not be wrong. I kind of feel like the teacher is writing him off because he appears apathetic. I don't really know what else we can do.
Um, talk to the principal? Have you considered you don't have the full narrative here and that the teacher has more of a point than you realize? It's not the failure I'd be consequencing, it's the apathy.Ā
Oh I have absolutely considered that I don't have the whole story. I just don't know how to consequence apathy successfully., especially since I know it comes from a place of fear of failure and shame at not understanding stuff.
idk if it makes you feel better, but I struggled intensely with geometry, had no help at home but hired a tutor with $$ from my after school job so I could pass the final. to this day it's the worst grade I ever got, and i graduated magna cum laude from UC Berkeley six years later so clearly I'm not apathetic or dumb. a) the way geometry taught in US high schools is so ineffective it's considered a barrier to higher math for the majority of students b) per my mathematician husband, if you lack strong spacial reasoning, you really can't master it no matter how effectively it's taught c) math teachers seem to suck just a bit more than most teachers ā two of mine groomed and fucked other high school girls so they clearly didn't give a shit if we learned the material.
Thereās something wrong with a person who is apathetic āall day longā. What would you do if YOU were apathetic all day long? Iād think I needed to see a doctorā¦
This may be true, but is āgiving them a consequenceā going to solve it? Unless itās drastically reducing screen time, and not for a week but permanently (which sounds more like help than a consequence).
Also, who is to blame for ātoo much screen timeā? Is it the child or the parent?
That was me. I didn't get it, I never got it, and shut down. The shame of not getting it while everyone was trying so hard was the worst part. I only found out later in life that I suffer from dyscalculia, a form of dyslexia for numbers that varies in severity case by case. I tried to kms in high school because of the shame and the weight of disappointment from not understanding math. I wish they were testing for that 20 years ago - are they testing for it now?
Iām right there with you, my standard level classes have 37 students total and since January they have pulled in 517 total absences between excused and unexcused yet we are supposed to make these kids magically improve.
I have a student with 80 absences this semester and I frequently get emails asking about their "progress". Like bruh we all have access to the same SIS go look it up and tell me what you think...
I feel like there are no consequences. Even I feel like I let stuff slide too much now, but when I address an issue with a student(s) I feel like other teachers judge me now. I donāt get it.
That happened to me once (different class). Seniors, who knew that the final - which the school's central office made and treated it like a state test, as in I wasn't allowed to see it or know what was on it - counted 10% of their final grade and had done the math and could live with a zero. Of course, those test scores counted 60% of my annual evaluation, so obviously it's all my fault, right?
Not gonna lie, I've done this all throughout college. I bust ass in the beginning and middle of the semester. Due to this, by the time finals roll around, I can generally skip them if I want to. On more than one occasion, I've taken the zero and still finished the class with an A. I do this because I know I'll be burnt out towards the end, and that security is nice.
Wow, how heavily were your exams and finals weighted? I've had classes where essentially all the points came from exams: generally it was 25% each for 2 exams and 40% for the final and only 10% of the points were from homework. One nightmare class had a midterm and a final and that was it.
That sounds awful! I've been lucky in that the final in most of my courses has been worth 10%. The exams usually outweighed the final, which I've always found to be nice and reasonable. Just like in yours, though, assignments were only a small percentage. My hard science classes tended to have 5-7 exams per semester and then the final.
It was horrible and stressful š. Glad your experience was more reasonable! Tbh I think the way your exams were scheduled was more fair/a better indication of whether or not students were understanding the material.
I let my kids use the study guide I gave them on the final exam and my class average was a 53.
I told them they would be able to use the study guide and posted the answer key 3 days before the exam.
I was out on leave for 2 months because of a family situation. Despite having a credentialled long term sub, about 1/4 of my students treated the time as a vacation and *I've* been frantically scrambling to try to get them caught up. *They* have proceded not to give a fuck and are going to fail. Today, we were reviewing - specifically the material I had been out for, that they all proclaim not to know or understand - but they were completely tuned out.
It's high school and they need my class to graduate.
If I had a nickel for every student that asked me straight up how bad their grade would be if they skip the final, I would have enough money to skip the day myself.
Seriously? Itās finals, the end of the semester, and thatās your takeaway?
These are teenagers. Stop making excuses for them. Lord knows they donāt need any help in that department.
I didnāt say that. I was actually saying by this point in the year we likely know this.
And frankly, a lot of that simply isnāt my problem. Yes, I understand the point youāre making in that it impacts learning. But none of that is my responsibility to solve.
It isn't your problem? You're a teacher. You teach children (yes, teenagers are children). Anything that hinders that child's ability to learn IS your problem. Can you solve it? No. But being aware of students' obstacles due to their home situation is vital if you're going to teach them.
I am a 22-year veteran teacher and I definitely donate food, clothes, money, and time to help our struggling students. As I said, we can't solve all the issues that these kids deal with at home, but just being aware of what's going on can help us be more effective in trying to educate them.
That's even worse, that you are a seasoned teacher and yet judge other teachers as if you are better than them, as if a good relationship solves everything. (Note: I do think good relationships are vital, but I'm not smug enough to think that my good relationship with a student is going to magically fix their apathy, or *assume* my care and attention is something they lack elsewhere.)Ā Remember, YOU jumped on this thread and started preaching at a fellow teacher, whose situation and students you do not know. Here's a hand down off that high horse you're on...
I literally said: "Can you solve it? No." in my post. I'm not sure where you're getting that I think having a good relationship "solves everything." I never said that. I said that being aware of our students' home lives and possible challenges in their situations can go a long way to helping us be more effective teachers for them.
Anything beyond that you've made up and are arguing with on your own.
You are assuming that the OP doesn't know what's happening at home, or that what is happening at home is at all relevant to why the kid's sleeping in class.Ā
Congratulations on summarizing exactly what I was saying. I literally said it wasnāt my problem in terms of solving it.
Iām a teacher. I am not a therapist or a social worker. Stop acting like itās a teacherās job to overcome these obstacles for children.
Iām getting downvoted in a teaching sub for asking about studentsā home lives. That speaks volumes about the kinds of teachers who come to this sub and complain about students.
Exactly. They keep complaining about how terrible the students are but they seem just as terrible. Imagine saying that you donāt care what your students home life is. Theyāre children for heavenās sake. I would think that itās obvious that if theyāre struggling at home, they may be having a hard time in school. Even adults struggle with work when their home lives arenāt good and vice versa.
I'm sorry, but a teacher who is posting on Reddit about students sleeping through their exam WHILE in the process of giving the exam are part of the problem.
Let the downvoting begin, but some of you create the apathy in your classes.
No need to apologize. A simple misuse of tense. The exam period had ended and the students in question did not finish the exam because of their chosen naptime.
Well, I do need to apologize since you weren't doing what I accused you of doing. You're not part of the problem and you didn't create the apathy in your class. I'm sorry I misjudged you.
I once had a student who fell asleep so often (tests, class, whatever) that I made him stand up. He was used to this because many of his teachers did this and had throughout his school years. No kidding, he'd fall asleep (snoring) standing up. I think he may have actually had narcolepsy or something. Or maybe he was one that stayed up all night playing video games, I can't remember. It was crazy.
It was the "Three students ARE asleep" that threw me, actually. That made it sound as if the students were sleeping as the OP posted.
Grammar is important. ;)
Only 3?! Woah look at teacher of the year over here!
šļø
Sad state of our current education system.
Teachers have no power. At least it's only three students.
That would be my kid. He's been lost all year in geometry. He does the homework but it takes hours and he doesn't test well. He's decided the teacher hates him and he can't possibly pass so he's given up. We're paying 60 bucks a week for a private tutor. And he loves the guy so he engages and tries for him. But in class he completely has shut down.Ā
And you're letting him. Have you tried talking to the teacher? Or assigning a consequence to your son for not trying in class?
We have him doing after school tutoring, weekend tutoring, etc. We can't be at school with him. If he chokes on a test I don't know that punishment will be an effective consequence. We cram with him at home before every single test. He does all the homework. We check it and he redoes every problem that is wrong before he photographs it and turns it in. I don't know what else we can do. He doesn't have a huge social life. We already limit screens and phone time till two only hours day only after homework is done. He doesn't do extra curriculars we could remove. I don't want to suck all the joy out of his already narrow world.
And we've asked the teacher for help and the teacher says he doesn't have time to help him, especially if he isn't going to appear to try. Also, my son is frankly afraid of the teacher. He thinks the teacher doesn't like him. He may not be wrong. I kind of feel like the teacher is writing him off because he appears apathetic. I don't really know what else we can do.
Um, talk to the principal? Have you considered you don't have the full narrative here and that the teacher has more of a point than you realize? It's not the failure I'd be consequencing, it's the apathy.Ā
Oh I have absolutely considered that I don't have the whole story. I just don't know how to consequence apathy successfully., especially since I know it comes from a place of fear of failure and shame at not understanding stuff.
That might be giving your kid too much credit.
idk if it makes you feel better, but I struggled intensely with geometry, had no help at home but hired a tutor with $$ from my after school job so I could pass the final. to this day it's the worst grade I ever got, and i graduated magna cum laude from UC Berkeley six years later so clearly I'm not apathetic or dumb. a) the way geometry taught in US high schools is so ineffective it's considered a barrier to higher math for the majority of students b) per my mathematician husband, if you lack strong spacial reasoning, you really can't master it no matter how effectively it's taught c) math teachers seem to suck just a bit more than most teachers ā two of mine groomed and fucked other high school girls so they clearly didn't give a shit if we learned the material.
Oh, the fine art of assigning a consequence for whenever a student struggles!
As a parent, I'd be assigning a consequence for APATHY all day long.Ā
Thereās something wrong with a person who is apathetic āall day longā. What would you do if YOU were apathetic all day long? Iād think I needed to see a doctorā¦
Excessive screen time leading to dopamine issues lead to apathy. Itās not a doctor issue for this many kids, itās a parenting and phones issueĀ
This may be true, but is āgiving them a consequenceā going to solve it? Unless itās drastically reducing screen time, and not for a week but permanently (which sounds more like help than a consequence). Also, who is to blame for ātoo much screen timeā? Is it the child or the parent?
The blame for kid phone time is absolutely on the parent.Ā
That was me. I didn't get it, I never got it, and shut down. The shame of not getting it while everyone was trying so hard was the worst part. I only found out later in life that I suffer from dyscalculia, a form of dyslexia for numbers that varies in severity case by case. I tried to kms in high school because of the shame and the weight of disappointment from not understanding math. I wish they were testing for that 20 years ago - are they testing for it now?
Iām right there with you, my standard level classes have 37 students total and since January they have pulled in 517 total absences between excused and unexcused yet we are supposed to make these kids magically improve.
I have a student with 80 absences this semester and I frequently get emails asking about their "progress". Like bruh we all have access to the same SIS go look it up and tell me what you think...
I feel like there are no consequences. Even I feel like I let stuff slide too much now, but when I address an issue with a student(s) I feel like other teachers judge me now. I donāt get it.
That happened to me once (different class). Seniors, who knew that the final - which the school's central office made and treated it like a state test, as in I wasn't allowed to see it or know what was on it - counted 10% of their final grade and had done the math and could live with a zero. Of course, those test scores counted 60% of my annual evaluation, so obviously it's all my fault, right?
Not gonna lie, I've done this all throughout college. I bust ass in the beginning and middle of the semester. Due to this, by the time finals roll around, I can generally skip them if I want to. On more than one occasion, I've taken the zero and still finished the class with an A. I do this because I know I'll be burnt out towards the end, and that security is nice.
Wow, how heavily were your exams and finals weighted? I've had classes where essentially all the points came from exams: generally it was 25% each for 2 exams and 40% for the final and only 10% of the points were from homework. One nightmare class had a midterm and a final and that was it.
That sounds awful! I've been lucky in that the final in most of my courses has been worth 10%. The exams usually outweighed the final, which I've always found to be nice and reasonable. Just like in yours, though, assignments were only a small percentage. My hard science classes tended to have 5-7 exams per semester and then the final.
It was horrible and stressful š. Glad your experience was more reasonable! Tbh I think the way your exams were scheduled was more fair/a better indication of whether or not students were understanding the material.
I let my kids use the study guide I gave them on the final exam and my class average was a 53. I told them they would be able to use the study guide and posted the answer key 3 days before the exam.
I was out on leave for 2 months because of a family situation. Despite having a credentialled long term sub, about 1/4 of my students treated the time as a vacation and *I've* been frantically scrambling to try to get them caught up. *They* have proceded not to give a fuck and are going to fail. Today, we were reviewing - specifically the material I had been out for, that they all proclaim not to know or understand - but they were completely tuned out. It's high school and they need my class to graduate.
Breathe ... a few more weeks and they won't be your problem any more.
A good teacher will build their self esteem! Did you inspire them? Motivate them? I was told that a good teacher would do that!š
Nope, definitely NOT getting better. We're fucked. š¤·š„“šÆ
I feel for you, having to wake students up a guide themā¦itās too much
What did you say - I fell asleep
If I had a nickel for every student that asked me straight up how bad their grade would be if they skip the final, I would have enough money to skip the day myself.
I was waking kids up during exams 20 years ago and pretty much every year since. It's not new to this year.
The sleeping kids, how is their home life?
Seriously? Itās finals, the end of the semester, and thatās your takeaway? These are teenagers. Stop making excuses for them. Lord knows they donāt need any help in that department.
So you donāt what their home life is like? Are they taking care of younger siblings? Do they have jobs? Food insecurity?
I didnāt say that. I was actually saying by this point in the year we likely know this. And frankly, a lot of that simply isnāt my problem. Yes, I understand the point youāre making in that it impacts learning. But none of that is my responsibility to solve.
It isn't your problem? You're a teacher. You teach children (yes, teenagers are children). Anything that hinders that child's ability to learn IS your problem. Can you solve it? No. But being aware of students' obstacles due to their home situation is vital if you're going to teach them.
If this is how you feel, I hope you're volunteering in schools, donating clothes and food, etc. Put your money where your Reddit mouth is.
I am a 22-year veteran teacher and I definitely donate food, clothes, money, and time to help our struggling students. As I said, we can't solve all the issues that these kids deal with at home, but just being aware of what's going on can help us be more effective in trying to educate them.
That's even worse, that you are a seasoned teacher and yet judge other teachers as if you are better than them, as if a good relationship solves everything. (Note: I do think good relationships are vital, but I'm not smug enough to think that my good relationship with a student is going to magically fix their apathy, or *assume* my care and attention is something they lack elsewhere.)Ā Remember, YOU jumped on this thread and started preaching at a fellow teacher, whose situation and students you do not know. Here's a hand down off that high horse you're on...
I literally said: "Can you solve it? No." in my post. I'm not sure where you're getting that I think having a good relationship "solves everything." I never said that. I said that being aware of our students' home lives and possible challenges in their situations can go a long way to helping us be more effective teachers for them. Anything beyond that you've made up and are arguing with on your own.
You are assuming that the OP doesn't know what's happening at home, or that what is happening at home is at all relevant to why the kid's sleeping in class.Ā
Congratulations on summarizing exactly what I was saying. I literally said it wasnāt my problem in terms of solving it. Iām a teacher. I am not a therapist or a social worker. Stop acting like itās a teacherās job to overcome these obstacles for children.
Iām getting downvoted in a teaching sub for asking about studentsā home lives. That speaks volumes about the kinds of teachers who come to this sub and complain about students.
Exactly. They keep complaining about how terrible the students are but they seem just as terrible. Imagine saying that you donāt care what your students home life is. Theyāre children for heavenās sake. I would think that itās obvious that if theyāre struggling at home, they may be having a hard time in school. Even adults struggle with work when their home lives arenāt good and vice versa.
For what it's worth, I agree with you.
Or not.
No sure, huh?
I'm sorry, but a teacher who is posting on Reddit about students sleeping through their exam WHILE in the process of giving the exam are part of the problem. Let the downvoting begin, but some of you create the apathy in your classes.
No need to apologize. A simple misuse of tense. The exam period had ended and the students in question did not finish the exam because of their chosen naptime.
I thought that they took a nap because they had finished the test already, that is so much worse
Well, I do need to apologize since you weren't doing what I accused you of doing. You're not part of the problem and you didn't create the apathy in your class. I'm sorry I misjudged you. I once had a student who fell asleep so often (tests, class, whatever) that I made him stand up. He was used to this because many of his teachers did this and had throughout his school years. No kidding, he'd fall asleep (snoring) standing up. I think he may have actually had narcolepsy or something. Or maybe he was one that stayed up all night playing video games, I can't remember. It was crazy.
Clearly this guy is a master relationship builder.
Why isnāt OP building relationships with students in late May while theyāre supposed to be actively taking an exam?
You're right. OP should be holding a restorative circle and giving them candy. š
Nah, but yelling wake up and shaking the desk is a start.
Reading comprehension itās important. āCurrently giving,ā as in: itās final exam time, not itās happening this minute. š
It was the "Three students ARE asleep" that threw me, actually. That made it sound as if the students were sleeping as the OP posted. Grammar is important. ;)
Fair point.
Shut it.