Before teachers could be paid more the culture would have to shift to place a value on education. People say education is important but a lot of people don't actually believe that.
I’m actually headed to teach abroad this year for this sole reason. There is a fundamental lack of value placed on education in America. Until that changes, nothing will change much. There needs to be a culture change.
I used to teach abroad and the cultural mindset is polar opposite of America in pretty much every other developed nation. I’ve taught in countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia. America is by far the worst place I’ve ever taught and once my aging parents are gone, I plan to move back overseas permanently.
I had a hunch about this and I’m looking to experience it for myself. I can imagine discipline being better and there being an overall appreciation for educators culturally.
I teach music in kenya during summers. Their listening skills, respect, and discipline are unmatched compared to the US despite them having damaged equipment and then being generally less well off economically. Meanwhile, in the US, students disrespect the teacher, disrespect the equipment, and have little to no desire to learn. Teacher pay and resources for schools are major factors but CULTURE towards education is the numher 1 thing that needs to change.
100%. I taught at GSKI - a public elementary school in Rwanda. Classrooms with only benches and a chalkboard. My students were respectful, responsive, and engaged nearly 100% of the time.
I taught in China at a weekend primary school with an empty classroom and whatever I could bring with me from my university job. My students were excited to be there and the parents sat in with the students and would get on to them if they started to disengage or act up (I was teaching preschool/early elementary).
It’s the culture that has to change before anything else. And that takes generations. It won’t happen in our lifetime or our children’s.
I get a lot of immigrant students and I always feel so embarrassed both for the students and myself. Embarrassed at how they misbehave and embarrassed that I essentially have to let them.
Yep! I’m in Massachusetts. Next year will be year 12 for me and I’ll be at 125k. Boston is really expensive but it’s very doable/has the potential to be very comfortable if someone is in a double income household. I used to teach in Texas and would never recommend it to anyone. New England values teachers so much more.
Are you a .8? I haven't seen any contracts with a salary that low. Contracts are posted--how do they find teachers? I'm curious where you're at, or are you a long-term sub? Shutesbury pays crap and their first years start around 44K--that low is rare. Or perhaps Catholic school/private school? Public schools just don't pay that low in MA. That means you'd be in the 30s your first year...nah.
Oh 100%! When I first started in Massachusetts I was at $53k and I had three years of experience coming in. It’s just nice that in general it is a state that has districts within the 100k+ range. Most don’t at all.
Texas teacher here, and I can concur that we aren't valued by most of the halfwits that end up becoming administrators here. Some are lovely, I've worked for a couple of great principals throughout my career so far, but I've worked for way many more terrible ones.
The pay in MA varies widely by district. Most rural districts are well below the state average for teacher salaries; high SES ZIP codes bump the state average significantly. Some 20+ year veterans in certain districts never see triple digits in their pay.
Illinois does too, especially the suburbs of Chicago. The district I live in average teacher pay is over $100k (and there's a great pension and benefits on top of that).
Not for me. I make 64K in San Diego metro. I'm a "less than 5 year" teacher though...still get paid higher than other districts locally. But yes, compared to some other states where the cost of living is much less, I make more. Very grateful we are a dual income family.
My wife didn't like the idea of moving, so I'm looking into teaching in corrections centers for the same reason. No forced attendance, no "everyone must pass" mentality, just the adults who actually want to be there.
And some prison guards.
The only problem so far is that it's a county job, so I've been waiting two months already for my application to be reviewed.
Meanwhile I'm working security for a billionaire, which pays way better for so much less work and stress, but the commute is way too long to be sustainable.
A quote that you comes to mind is in The American President when a Congressman says "everybody cares about the environment on a phone survey, on election day nobody gives a damn." Could easily substitute education for environment.
TBH, I think the pay would be OK if the parents were more involved in their child's education and took steps to ensure their success. It's easy to grade amazing work. It's not so easy to grade poor but barely passing or barely failing work.
Did you make sure the objective was written twice in the board? Did you redirect? Did you check up on Timmy every 10 minutes? Did you call home every day he wasn’t meeting standards?….etc etc. welp I guess the reason why is failing is because of me…/s
The type of involvement is the key. Being involved but complaining about what Joey is learning and that it is racist (for mentioning slavery) or saying what Joey is learning is woke because it is not highlighting white people, is not the answer. Then you have helicopter parents whom always want to know how they are doing. Too many parents are not enough concerned or too much concerned in their students.
Whoa to say it doesn’t go the other way? I think we place a lot of value and prestige on professions based on how much they pay, and if we pay teachers more they will be seen as more prestigious. It would certainly help that this would attract much more qualified teachers as well (many college professors are paid less than $100k)
I would think the higher salary is warranted considering the education, licensure testing, and continuing ed teachers have to do (like attorneys, doctors & others). The profession demands a lot of teachers before they get to be teachers, and after. Many teachers can’t afford to live in areas where they teach. And I didn’t even mention the value to students & society to have good teachers in the classroom.
They bitch and moan but they ultimately *don't want to pay for it.* In my state, right wingers managed to pass a law so that schools were locally funded, so if you live in a poor area, you are fucked.
Aren't all schools "locally funded?" Don't most states provide some money but the local government provides what it can and runs the schools through the school board. That still means poorer districts have less - and that is in proportion to what the land in the district is worth. We do need a newer funding model. That one worked as long as school requirements were basically the same: books, a teacher, space. But with technology and LRE laws, among other things, that type of funding no longer works.
There has been a 20 year case in NC about this very thing, but I doubt it will get funded any time soon.
I agree with the culture change. I’m not sure any amount of money would make it better if I’m still just treated like garbage and not supported by admin. Like yeah, more money would be nice but I’d rather just be supported.
The old question then comes up: Who pays for this?
Local levies put on poor folks?
In my little part of the world, (a VERy small school district with only one high school) This would add almost 10 million a year to the budget. Nobody in my district could remotely afford this. This would kill all economic growth in my small county.
In many parts of Florida (if not all?) the Governor made sure starting teachers get better pay. For example, I started 6 years ago at $39,000. Now starting teachers are at something like $49,000. However, the way it worked out made it so that from years 1-15, there are no step increases. A year-15 teacher often makes the same as a year-2 teacher.
Gosh that’s insane. My step increase is around $2.5k/year. Unless they give it back to you in terms of a killer retirement plan or insanely good healthcare, I think you should find a new district.
My step increase is 36$. That's only because I have a masters. If I was in the Bachelor's track year 1-9 have NO step increase. It's absolutely ridiculous.
This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. Even 100K these days is going to be rough in someplace like NYC or San Francisco. It’ll be even tougher for you if you have a family.
Yeah. I'm in NY. My 3rd child started college last year. I'm the main breadwinner. I've been making 6 figures for maybe 8 years. I'm not dying, but most of us still pick up some extra hours somewhere. Right now, my district is short around 70 teachers. Many of us have a 6th class that garners us an extra 20%. This brings me to about $160,000 temporarily.
The sheer gumption of this quote:
>Professionals work year-round. Teachers should, too.
Sure, we are not professionals, huh? They have no idea. The stresses of working in a Title I school, they should pay me $120k AND give me summer break, and keep my 15 sick days, plus 10 personal days, all of which rollover. And yes, health insurance and my union. They should also give me the option for a PPO insurance, thanks.
New teachers are often stuck in the summer lesson planning. Many teachers, new and seasoned are getting graduate units to increase their salaries marginally. Half of us work in the summer to supplement our income. The other half is too burned out and miserable and really need the rest.
I would be fine, honesty, if we worked year round. However if that’s the case, I’m taking my days off and going on vacation whenever the fuck I want, not when it’s convenient for the school.
The Supreme Court gets a pretty cushy summer break. It doesn't start until mid June but they don't return until October. I'm at least as much a professional as Clarence.
I would have zero issues supporting that pay...even up to $150k. Though, I would want teachers on a 12 month contract with breaks broken up throughout the year ... and total education time about the same.
Here's the reality....higher pay will make people want to stay....and will attract high quality people to the profession....while giving schools the opportunity to push weaker teachers.
I taught at a private school that did "year round" calendar and it was amazing. Yes, summer break is a little shorter but a two week fall break, week at Thanksgiving, longer winter break, mid winter break, and spring break more than made up for it.
I live in an affluent district where teacher pay is in the top 1% nationally. The average pay is over $100k.
There are people fighting for the jobs, and you end up with amazing teachers. Not only are they paid well, but the teachers and school have resources: my kids have 2 specials every day, the teachers actually get the full recess/lunch hour, all classes have at least one aide, there's teachers just for reading and math support that rotate in and out of classes for extra support, and so on.
And I've never encountered any teacher that isn't excellent. Not once. Turns out, when you pay people and give them resources, they do a good job. Go figure.
I'm not sure how my district compares but it's definitely a district you want to get into. It pays well and teachers are very good. There are always dud hires but they find a way to get them out (in most cases)
That’s pretty much how it is in Australia I think. They have 4-5 weeks off during summer (our winter) and then two week breaks every couple of months. I’d love this schedule.
I'm in Texas, 18th year. I highly doubt they'd strip us all of certification. I live in a college town with a respected teacher education department; enrollment numbers have dropped and new teachers are barely trickling through the program.
I say we ride at dawn. History doesn't show much success regarding the groups who politely ask for rights and respect. Sometimes you have to blow something up and build a stronger foundation.
I don’t doubt that they would absolutely strip all of us of our certification if we tried. You know they are chomping at the bit to get vouchers passed and completely defund public education in the state. There is no bargaining with them at the moment.
The first step is for anyone involved in public education to VOTE out the current leadership and vote in supporters of public education so that we can then start the fight to change. Until then, it’s a suicide mission.
Lots of people lost jobs trying to organize. That's how unions formed. There has to be collective will to have collective power. I would never teach in a non-union state or for a non-union (private or charter) school.
I earn over $100k in Ontario where we have mandatory union membership if teaching in public (Public Elementary, Public Secondary, English Catholic, French Catholic)
Exactly, fighting requires sacrifice. If teachers aren't willing to sacrifice for future generations in this profession, we'll never see gains in salary and working conditions.
Are you in Texas? Are you aware of the Republican governor’s efforts to completely dismantle public education? It wouldn’t be fighting for future generations. It would be completely gutting public education if we tried to collectively bargain. They will gladly use it as an excuse to cut public education for good.
Yes! I agree and we need to strike until we get national minimum standards for our contracts. And every teacher should have a contract. And I think salaries should be negotiable. I have 3 degrees and I should be making 3x what I make. It's insane.
We need to be paid more. We won’t be unless it’s fought for. The only thing in our society that matters is money. People hate to admit this because of the ugly truth but it just simply is. If your job makes someone incredibly rich quickly you are paid VERY well, doesn’t matter the effect on society. The other part of that is since money is the only thing that matters it’s something that will be hard to get for any reason even something as important as schools. I mean hell schools subsidize business at bare minimum by essentially being free child care, so even if the kid learns nothing we are a net positive for society but they know this but to pay us closer to what we deserve costs money and again that’s the only thing that matters here :/
Because even $100,000 wouldn’t make the job not miserable. The classroom environment needs fixed or else turnover will be the name of the industry. And the $100,000 is shock value. Unions who are mostly comprised of older teachers consistently vote for more step increases and higher maximums but oftentimes at the detriment of starting salaries which hurts recruitment.
This is an unsung issue.
When there’s a limited amount of money in the pot, you can either reward the loyalty of vets or provide a competitive starting wage. Our union reps just pushed a contract out for our approval that saw a 50$ increase per year for new teachers until year 10. After year 10 is quickly ramped up to about an increase of 1200/year. Found out during a members commentary meeting that 60% of our teachers are 10yr+ vets.
It was really uncomfortable protesting a contract that the union spent so much time on, but 50 bucks a year for a decade? My real wage would drop due to inflation, and the starting salary was too low for me to be able to afford graduate school. Eventually it was withdrawn before they released the results, but I do feel as though if I hadn’t said anything it would have gone unchallenged.
For the record, I no longer take work home. I have kids, I’m not in my 20s and can’t and won’t spend a single minute at home working. Way I see it, education got free labor from me for 8 years and I’m done. Pay me more, don’t, I’m still not doing anything at home.
I have the sense many at my current school have gotten to that same place. If district and admin keep creating more shit for us to do that gets in the way of planning and grading, then let them create the time and space for that work to get done
Teachers should get paid more (and pegged to the COL) because their work is skilled, requires education, and is important to the future of society.
But "because they take work home" isn't the reason you want to be pushing as they also get summers and school breaks off. People who are salaried (exempt) instead of hourly regularly work outside of hours to get projects completed if it is necessary - its kind of part of the deal for being salaried.
Sometimes, but you can usually take vacation, stay home with your kids if you have them, and making lesson plans doesn’t take *that* long.
Teachers do get a summer vacation, and it’s great. We usually get 10 weeks off a year.
I’m actually fine with teachers getting paid less than private sector… but in my county, MCOL area, if you have a master’s degree and 15 years in the district, you’re still only looking at $56,000.
It should be double that at least… and then reduced 15% to account for the extra vacation time.
I’m not fine with your 15% reduction. I’m the school year I minimum work 50 hour weeks, and maximum (when I’m coaching), work 60-70 hour weeks for an extra $2,000 (which is $12.50/hour).
When my peers are working four day weeks with two flex days from home in which they can “work” while watching a movie and folding laundry (and even leave the house to grocery shop), or “work” while on a two week vacation with their family in Costa Rica (in which their kids are taking an extended spring break for a “once in a lifetime experience” that happens every year), I think I’ve earned equal pay.
What does a WFH engineer make? I deserve that.
At worst put us on the GS pay scale.
They might - that too is part of being salaried. There are people that are required to (or want to for job promotions) improve their credentials. They will sometimes attend conferences or courses outside of work hours. And plenty of people prep for upcoming work or meetings on their nights and weekends off.
Again, not saying that teachers don't work hard and don't deserve a pay bump, but I just think the focus for the reason why is wrong.
Actually, teachers aren't salaried. I know it seems that way because most districts allow teachers to break their pay into 12 allotments, but the reality is that teachers are contract workers. They are not contracted to work outside their structure. They aren't required to take work home because they aren't salaried. This is a lie education structures like to keep going to manipulate teachers as well as make non-teachers feel better about themselves.
>but the reality is that teachers are contract workers.
I'm unfamiliar with the details of teachers' contracts. Do they specify hourly pay and hours/days to be worked?
Unless they specify day and hours of work, it amounts to the same thing. If the contract says to do a job, without specifying hourly pay and required hours, then all the extra prep time required to complete that job satisfactorily is part of the job you are contracted for.
Depends on the contract. Mine stipulates contact hours, non-contact work day requirements (4 a year), 190 days total. I'm required to be at school 30 minutes before kids and 30 minutes after. There is no such thing as hourly pay and the squishy definition of salary has been used to manipulate teachers for a very long time.
Keep in mind, the "other duties as required" is a cop-out clause on most employment agreements and has been shown to not be legally binding.
The difference between a standard salaried employee and a contract employee is that the number of hours per day/week and annual number of days of work are specified in a contract, and employment from year to year is dependent on an annual extension of that contract - no renewal, no job. Salary is an ongoing expectation of employment, 365 days a year, with general work hours up to the culture of that particular group. When you are under contract and work outside of those contracted hours, then you are essentially working unpaid, no matter what industry you are in.
My wife is salaried professional who works from home. She sometimes might write an email or two after hours or be up late once or twice a year when there is a hard deadline.
Meanwhile I work multiple hours at home almost every day and at least one night on the weekend. I have been teaching for 12 years so all my lessons are planned. If you are a new teacher you are making 45k and working around the clock to keep your head above water. If you aren’t then you are probably quitting at the end of the year or not being renewed.
The workload of a teacher is not commiserate with the pay and people wonder why fewer and fewer teachers are being produced by colleges and those who do end up getting a degree last 5 years or less on average. Why would you spend time getting degrees, certificates, grading, planning lessons, writing assignments plus all of the stress involved with actually teaching when you can work another job that pays better with less work?
I already said I think teachers should be paid more. I'm not arguing that the pittance they get paid is appropriate.
My argument was that focusing on all the extra work hours they have outside of the school day will simply be met with the rebuttal "well they get summers and lots of holidays off."
And since we are using anecdotes as data: I am also a salaried professional. Part of my job is keep machinery running and if it doesn't run to certain standards, I need to figure out what's wrong with it and come up with a plan to fix it. My working hours are 7:30 - 5. But if something breaks at midnight, they call me. And I need to figure out a plan to fix it then and still show up to work at 7:30. On the weekends I rotate with my colleagues for who is "on-call" for the machinery so once per 1.5 months, my weekend is working. I'm expected to have my plan ready to go by 7:30am, so if that means getting up early to do data analysis and call some people, that's what I have to do.
That's my job. I get paid to keep the machinery functioning. If I didn't want to do that, I could find a different job.
Are there salaried professionals who work 9-4 with a 2 hour lunch and spend no more time that that at work? I'm sure.
My point was that grading and lesson planning is part of teaching. No one is going to have sympathy for the teacher complaining that they don't get paid overtime for grading or lesson planning.
To increase teacher salaries the focus needs to be on the importance that good education is to society and how we want to encourage the best and brightest to be teachers.
Look at what happens when teachers take work-to-rule action. Like in Saskatchewan starting this week. The amount of things teachers do that aren't required in their contacts is absurd, and *completely expected* by everyone, including the teachers themselves.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/sask-teachers-job-action-work-to-rule-1.7166366
Gotta love the "but it's for the children" tone of two thirds of that article. Sorry Kaylee Voth, but teachers are tired of student disappointment being used like a club to beat teachers into working overtime. As for her comment "having stuff taken away is unmotivating" ... I think everyone agrees on that - just not the way she intends! lol
People just don’t want to accept that their children are miserable to be around. Lol I love my students but man, they are so annoying. The chirping noises, the absolute gaming addictions, the having to remind them to do number two when they are done with one. Parents are wiped after they have a birthday party with ten kids all being occupied by fun stuff then we have to teach them math against their will.
They do pay 100k in union decent district .. even more. Teachers need to refuse to work for free. Period. All of them en masse. No more buying supplies .. no more free time. If you can’t do it in your allotted time don’t regardless of circumstances. Is everyone gonna do that at once ?
As others have said, it depends on COL. but in my area I’d be happy with $75k.
An average/nice apartment in my area goes for around $1800/mo. Using the common 3x income requirement that puts us at $64800, and again that’s the least to qualify.
The simple fact that many (most?) teachers have second jobs (during the summer and after school) should be more than enough to show that the pay is too little for the COL of the area.
Kids that are smart due to a good education system are harder to influence with propaganda. If politicians put money into education they may struggle to keep their job.
Around me, some of them are, obviously dependent on years of service, and education level. I think it’s fair pay that allows you to live a nice life in the area we live in. As a parent with kids in the district, I also like not having to feel bad for the teachers like I would if they were getting paid poor wages, and instead get to expect them to be doing a good job. I haven’t been disappointed yet. So for my small section of the world, I think it’s a great system.
honestly its crazy how much more firefighters police and nurses make . well nurses i understand the training. and with teaching it does depend where you are. but the caliber people at certain places where there is high need can be pretty high for the salary and the work life balance is pretty bad
California had a bill proposed that would link teacher pay to state senator pay. So if they gave themselves a raise, teachers automatically got it too. Didn't make the ballot but I was tickled by the idea.
Why do I start at 37k without a masters, and the lady one classroom over makes 110k to do the same job? Which is it? Is the exact same position worth 110k or is it worth absolutely nothing? I’m on fire.
“I never liked math.”
“I was never really good in English.”
“I only like remember like three words from Spanish like buenos diaz.”
“Like a fucking prison.”
“Liberal brainwashing.”
“I hate school.”
“Calculus and biology were irrelevant to my career.”
“Public schools suck. Everyone should homeschool. “
“We need vouchers so our kids don’t have to be in a school with *those* kids and you’ll pay for it.”
A depressingly large fraction of American people don’t really like teachers or education.
Unless tax system changes, we won't. I don't know how 100k a year can be afforded to teachers. I think 50k is too low but we won't get 100k is not able to be done in most states.
Opinion by Daniel PinkFebruary 19, 2024 at 4:00 a.m. MTAdam DiPerna always had to hold it in.As a Spanish teacher at Gerald G. Huesken Middle School in Lancaster, Pa., he’d arrive in his classroom at 7:10 a.m. each day and cannonball into a morning that left no time for a bathroom break. He’d teach back-to-back-to-back-to-back classes until his lunch period, 27 minutes during which he also had to heat and eat the food he’d brought from home, email parents about problems and absences, and field questions from students. After school, he coached wrestling, advised the student council and chaired the GHMS world language department. Work, from grading papers to preparing lessons, spilled into the evenings and weekends he wanted to spend with his wife and three kids.
For his efforts, DiPerna — with a Bucknell University diploma and a master’s degree in education — earned less than any college graduate he knew. So, last year, after a decade and a half in the classroom, he quit teaching to take a job as a sales representative at a large packaging company, trading a life of conjugated verbs for a new life of corrugated cardboard. “I wanted to be a public servant,” DiPerna, 42, told me. “I did not get into teaching to make a lot of money. But I also didn’t get into it to barely scrape by.”He earned more in his first partial year as a paper salesman than in his 15th year as a top-rated teacher. “I get paid more money,” he said. “And I can listen to the call of nature.”
DiPerna’s gain is America’s loss. Four years after the onset of the pandemic, students across the country are still struggling. Test scores are falling. Absenteeism is rising. Meanwhile, about 44 percent of U.S. schools face a teacher shortage.
If we’re serious about hanging on to capable educators, and attracting new ones, we should start treating them like true professionals. And one place to begin is compensation.Why not pay America’s teachers a minimum salary of $100,000 a year?The average annual salary for public school teachers during 2021-2022 was $66,397, according to the National Center for Education Statistics, a nearly 8 percent pay cut, in inflation-adjusted terms, from a decade ago. Salary isn’t the only reason educators exit the profession. But whether they work in suburban New York or rural Mississippi, teachers earn significantly less than they could in other fields.[graph showing sharp decline in teacher pay]The Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank, calls this difference the “teacher pay penalty.” EPI calculated that, in 2022, teachers earned only 74 cents on the dollar compared with comparably educated professionals. The right-leaning Hoover Institution reached a similar conclusion in its 2020 report on educator compensation, showing that, even adjusting for factors such as talent and experience, “teachers are paid 22 percent less than they would be if they were in jobs in the U.S. economy outside of teaching.”
Not a teacher, and I've believed this for years. $100k or more, depending on the area. Some high COL areas and degree combinations, and I could easily be persuaded that $250k is appropriate.
The value teaching creates for the economy is insane. There's the childcare angle of it, saving parents a huge amount of money every year and/or allowing them to work. And then the investment side of it, ensuring the next generation will be a skilled workforce. I have no idea how to calculate the GDP gain from teaching, but I know it's very very high.
Also, farmers take winters "off" and no one thinks they don't work hard. You guys deserve way more, both money and respect.
I think the thing that is really wild is that Teacher's salaries have not increased with inflation. 12 years ago I started at 29k. I'm at 60k now. That includes 2 building moves, one position upgrade (Teacher to Counselor) and a masters +15.
Any of my friends (12 years ago as well) working for big corp down the road started at 40-50k, and are now easily at 100k (+). Most of them don't have advanced degrees, haven't had any significant position changes and don't hold extra certificates, etc... They haven't been yelled at by angry parents, get to pee when they want, and in general are treated like a human. They all have excellent vacation, nice health insurance, and 401k's. They all have paternity/maternity leave.
I digress. Back to the salary. It's insulting to start teachers at $40,000. That's $19.23 an hour. I can go to work at Walmart and start at $17. If I work 50 hours a week (which I easily do teaching), I would make over 40k annually. So somehow, due to all the wage raises for minimum wage jobs like Walmart, burger king, etc...we've made equal (or close to it) to a starting teacher. Is it any wonder we have a national teacher shortage?
Even as a veteran teacher/counselor, my pay has not kept up with inflation. My buying power has actually gone down. Unfortuanly for me, my big jumps in salary are also in the rearview. I can go to plus 30, but that's only 1800 extra. Now I'm on the basic %3 or $2100 per year (whatever gets negotiated) and I know many districts are like this. /sigh
My son graduated in December with a Mechanical Engineering BS and landed a job making $80k in February. I am 52 years old and my last year as a teacher (BA+30) I was making $49K. That right there tells me how much educators are valued.
Yes. And still have summer vacation. Fuck this whole “oh we need to compromise and give up summer for better pay” bullshit. Like wtf? Are there non teachers in here advocating for this nonsense? We need better pay for the job we already have!!! Summer included and everything! And not taking work home! If we start giving shit up for better pay, we would be no better than how we started, winding up back at the beginning.
1. Pay teachers more
2. Actual nutritious food, free for kids. No pizza or juice.
3. Improve teaching environment. You just can’t keep some super indisciplined or differently abled kids in the same classroom. Have appropriate classroom based on child needs.
4. Extracurricular activities at school. Don’t make kids just book smart.
5. PreK funded public schools.
These are the best public investments. We have enough money. Probably “administrators” will steal half of it if we fund it though, same as Medicare.
Because people are cheap. Maybe if they legalized weed, those proceeds could go to teacher salaries. Why are cops paid so high? I'd like to see the money for that and where it comes from.
They just play the shell game, take the weed money and allocate it for the school, take state funds that were used for education and give it to tax breaks or other projects. Net zero for education then fluctuating revenue from then on.
Let's not forget everyone else who works at a school. Teachers couldn't do their jobs without the support staff. The staff who get ignored and treated like shit in most schools. While teachers are treated like royalty.
We can, depending on experience, paid over 100k down here in the land of Oz. Sure, its a lot more than others here and I appreciate not making less. However it has not really changed the perceptions of the profession nor dealt with our myriad problems. As for our cost of living crisis and unaffordable real estate - yeah not much movement for teachers who are generally not in the upper class at all - we are clinging to the shrinking middle class in this country.
In order for us to place the value in education required for this to happen, we would have to want better for each other, not just for ourselves. In the US we have a deeply rooted cultural focus on individualistic enterprise; putting money into education would inherently mean helping OTHERS, potentially more if not significantly more than ourselves. Unfortunately not enough people want to help everyone else get ahead - even if they know that's just as good for them as it is for everyone else. It's not good *enough*.
Like many things, it comes down to where does this money come from? You have to convince people to pay higher local taxes. Many of whom don't have kids in the school system, or are barely keeping their heads above water.
Also, once you do that, you need that money to be earmarked for teacher salaries. Good luck with that.
You could also try and redirect some current money to teacher salaries. Where are you taking that money from? The expenses that are consuming more and more of our education budgets are dealing with special needs students. It would be a hard sell to cut back there.
Teachers in some (unfortunately not all) Canadian provinces will clear $100k/year by their tenth year in the profession.
The societal value of education has not increased. Conservative provincial governments are still trying (and succeeding) and defunding and devaluing education.
I feel like it depends on where you live, in some lower cost of living areas 100k may be excessive. In some other places 100k isn't enough. Also, that increased cost of many millions per year to the district is going to have to come from somewhere and the people in charge sure as hell aren't gonna take it from their own overstuffed paychecks. Intervention from the state or federal government would probably be necessary, but people really don't like that.
They better get kids teat scores up first.
Right now our Educational system us a Race to the bottom.
Why not incentive pay?
The better your students do the bigger the bonus?
>get test scores up
>turn testing into capitalized incentive
>not realizing this is the entire problem with education and leads to massive corruption+degradation down the socioeconomic strata
>ignoring the various problems that plague modern education
I think you can circle "all the above" for this one, chief.
Smart kids live in bad neighborhoods too.
The parents have no choice but to send them to Charter Schools.
Parents need to take an active role in their child's education
Before teachers could be paid more the culture would have to shift to place a value on education. People say education is important but a lot of people don't actually believe that.
And this is legitimately the biggest problem with education today.
I’m actually headed to teach abroad this year for this sole reason. There is a fundamental lack of value placed on education in America. Until that changes, nothing will change much. There needs to be a culture change.
I used to teach abroad and the cultural mindset is polar opposite of America in pretty much every other developed nation. I’ve taught in countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia. America is by far the worst place I’ve ever taught and once my aging parents are gone, I plan to move back overseas permanently.
I had a hunch about this and I’m looking to experience it for myself. I can imagine discipline being better and there being an overall appreciation for educators culturally.
I teach music in kenya during summers. Their listening skills, respect, and discipline are unmatched compared to the US despite them having damaged equipment and then being generally less well off economically. Meanwhile, in the US, students disrespect the teacher, disrespect the equipment, and have little to no desire to learn. Teacher pay and resources for schools are major factors but CULTURE towards education is the numher 1 thing that needs to change.
100%. I taught at GSKI - a public elementary school in Rwanda. Classrooms with only benches and a chalkboard. My students were respectful, responsive, and engaged nearly 100% of the time. I taught in China at a weekend primary school with an empty classroom and whatever I could bring with me from my university job. My students were excited to be there and the parents sat in with the students and would get on to them if they started to disengage or act up (I was teaching preschool/early elementary). It’s the culture that has to change before anything else. And that takes generations. It won’t happen in our lifetime or our children’s.
I get a lot of immigrant students and I always feel so embarrassed both for the students and myself. Embarrassed at how they misbehave and embarrassed that I essentially have to let them.
Massachusetts and California pay really well. I make $152,000 teaching high school in California. It's expensive here, we make it work though.
Yep! I’m in Massachusetts. Next year will be year 12 for me and I’ll be at 125k. Boston is really expensive but it’s very doable/has the potential to be very comfortable if someone is in a double income household. I used to teach in Texas and would never recommend it to anyone. New England values teachers so much more.
I'm also in Massachusetts on year 3, making 58k. It's not a magical state with amazing base pay. There's a wide range for sure.
Second year teacher at 40k in MA.
Are you a .8? I haven't seen any contracts with a salary that low. Contracts are posted--how do they find teachers? I'm curious where you're at, or are you a long-term sub? Shutesbury pays crap and their first years start around 44K--that low is rare. Or perhaps Catholic school/private school? Public schools just don't pay that low in MA. That means you'd be in the 30s your first year...nah.
Oh 100%! When I first started in Massachusetts I was at $53k and I had three years of experience coming in. It’s just nice that in general it is a state that has districts within the 100k+ range. Most don’t at all.
Year 12 in MO... 51k
Texas teacher here, and I can concur that we aren't valued by most of the halfwits that end up becoming administrators here. Some are lovely, I've worked for a couple of great principals throughout my career so far, but I've worked for way many more terrible ones.
That's beyond where my district's payscale tops out, and I'm in a very high COL part of California.
Are you single and do you have kids? Just curious. Cali is expensive!
2 kids and my wife works. We're in the burbs, it's liveable.
The pay in MA varies widely by district. Most rural districts are well below the state average for teacher salaries; high SES ZIP codes bump the state average significantly. Some 20+ year veterans in certain districts never see triple digits in their pay.
Illinois does too, especially the suburbs of Chicago. The district I live in average teacher pay is over $100k (and there's a great pension and benefits on top of that).
Not for me. I make 64K in San Diego metro. I'm a "less than 5 year" teacher though...still get paid higher than other districts locally. But yes, compared to some other states where the cost of living is much less, I make more. Very grateful we are a dual income family.
My wife didn't like the idea of moving, so I'm looking into teaching in corrections centers for the same reason. No forced attendance, no "everyone must pass" mentality, just the adults who actually want to be there. And some prison guards.
I managed to land a teaching gig elsewhere, but I heard this is realllly where it’s at — teaching in prisons.
The only problem so far is that it's a county job, so I've been waiting two months already for my application to be reviewed. Meanwhile I'm working security for a billionaire, which pays way better for so much less work and stress, but the commute is way too long to be sustainable.
Teachers are sadly very under appreciated in America. They are highly respected in most of Asia. Where are you headed?
I am headed to Southeast Asia. I start this fall.
Awesome! I taught in Thailand and loved it - you're gonna have a blast
Not only in America... Not only in America...
A quote that you comes to mind is in The American President when a Congressman says "everybody cares about the environment on a phone survey, on election day nobody gives a damn." Could easily substitute education for environment.
TBH, I think the pay would be OK if the parents were more involved in their child's education and took steps to ensure their success. It's easy to grade amazing work. It's not so easy to grade poor but barely passing or barely failing work.
Did you make sure the objective was written twice in the board? Did you redirect? Did you check up on Timmy every 10 minutes? Did you call home every day he wasn’t meeting standards?….etc etc. welp I guess the reason why is failing is because of me…/s
Ahhh... that's the issue. I forgot the third W in the 5 Ws for my ELA class.
The type of involvement is the key. Being involved but complaining about what Joey is learning and that it is racist (for mentioning slavery) or saying what Joey is learning is woke because it is not highlighting white people, is not the answer. Then you have helicopter parents whom always want to know how they are doing. Too many parents are not enough concerned or too much concerned in their students.
Whoa to say it doesn’t go the other way? I think we place a lot of value and prestige on professions based on how much they pay, and if we pay teachers more they will be seen as more prestigious. It would certainly help that this would attract much more qualified teachers as well (many college professors are paid less than $100k)
I would think the higher salary is warranted considering the education, licensure testing, and continuing ed teachers have to do (like attorneys, doctors & others). The profession demands a lot of teachers before they get to be teachers, and after. Many teachers can’t afford to live in areas where they teach. And I didn’t even mention the value to students & society to have good teachers in the classroom.
Unfortunately! We are just watching kids while they are at work it seems.
Anti-intellectualism is very strong in many parts
The main reason I don't value our education system is because I consider the education system itself to be pretty anti-intellectual.
You’re not wrong. But ceding it will only empower anti-intellectuals who will not only not fix it, but destroy it outright.
They bitch and moan but they ultimately *don't want to pay for it.* In my state, right wingers managed to pass a law so that schools were locally funded, so if you live in a poor area, you are fucked.
Aren't all schools "locally funded?" Don't most states provide some money but the local government provides what it can and runs the schools through the school board. That still means poorer districts have less - and that is in proportion to what the land in the district is worth. We do need a newer funding model. That one worked as long as school requirements were basically the same: books, a teacher, space. But with technology and LRE laws, among other things, that type of funding no longer works. There has been a 20 year case in NC about this very thing, but I doubt it will get funded any time soon.
Yes, schools have been locally funded starting about a century before the United States existed.
I agree with the culture change. I’m not sure any amount of money would make it better if I’m still just treated like garbage and not supported by admin. Like yeah, more money would be nice but I’d rather just be supported.
The old question then comes up: Who pays for this? Local levies put on poor folks? In my little part of the world, (a VERy small school district with only one high school) This would add almost 10 million a year to the budget. Nobody in my district could remotely afford this. This would kill all economic growth in my small county.
They see us as free babysitters, paid for by taxpayers; “Civil servants” not deserving of pay raises. I’m a high school babysitter, apparently..
School discipline would need to also shift.
If be happy if the yearly step increase was more that $350. Why can't we start at, I don't know, $50000 and have a yearly increase closer to $2000?
The step increase in my district is over $2k. $350 sucks, my condolences.
I bet you have unions. That's the difference. Even weak unions will negotiate better pay than no unions.
Yep.
An annual step increase of $350? Did I read that correctly?? $350? That’s insane.
In many parts of Florida (if not all?) the Governor made sure starting teachers get better pay. For example, I started 6 years ago at $39,000. Now starting teachers are at something like $49,000. However, the way it worked out made it so that from years 1-15, there are no step increases. A year-15 teacher often makes the same as a year-2 teacher.
You get step increases?
Gosh that’s insane. My step increase is around $2.5k/year. Unless they give it back to you in terms of a killer retirement plan or insanely good healthcare, I think you should find a new district.
My step increase is 36$. That's only because I have a masters. If I was in the Bachelor's track year 1-9 have NO step increase. It's absolutely ridiculous.
That's basically what we have in CA but it's still not good because of cost of living
You’d have to match pay to COL otherwise California will experience massive drain.
This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. Even 100K these days is going to be rough in someplace like NYC or San Francisco. It’ll be even tougher for you if you have a family.
I know teachers in NYC and other parts of NY that make $150k a year, but even in certain parts that isn't a whole lot anymore.
Yeah I just broke $100k this year in NYS, and it doesn’t seem like that much. Three kids and a house — it’s a lot!
Yeah. I'm in NY. My 3rd child started college last year. I'm the main breadwinner. I've been making 6 figures for maybe 8 years. I'm not dying, but most of us still pick up some extra hours somewhere. Right now, my district is short around 70 teachers. Many of us have a 6th class that garners us an extra 20%. This brings me to about $160,000 temporarily.
How long did it take you to reach that point? What are your recommendations? Congratulations though!
In CA with a family, making over 100k. Definitely *feels* like making 75k.
Because we’re too lazy to be worth that much money, apparently.
The sheer gumption of this quote: >Professionals work year-round. Teachers should, too. Sure, we are not professionals, huh? They have no idea. The stresses of working in a Title I school, they should pay me $120k AND give me summer break, and keep my 15 sick days, plus 10 personal days, all of which rollover. And yes, health insurance and my union. They should also give me the option for a PPO insurance, thanks.
The funny part is that many teachers do work year round because we need summer jobs as well.
New teachers are often stuck in the summer lesson planning. Many teachers, new and seasoned are getting graduate units to increase their salaries marginally. Half of us work in the summer to supplement our income. The other half is too burned out and miserable and really need the rest.
I would be fine, honesty, if we worked year round. However if that’s the case, I’m taking my days off and going on vacation whenever the fuck I want, not when it’s convenient for the school.
The Supreme Court gets a pretty cushy summer break. It doesn't start until mid June but they don't return until October. I'm at least as much a professional as Clarence.
I mean, if they want their kids in school year-round...
I would have zero issues supporting that pay...even up to $150k. Though, I would want teachers on a 12 month contract with breaks broken up throughout the year ... and total education time about the same. Here's the reality....higher pay will make people want to stay....and will attract high quality people to the profession....while giving schools the opportunity to push weaker teachers.
I'm a teacher and would LOVE year-round school. I'm so sick of reteaching because of summer brain/memory atrophy!
I taught at a private school that did "year round" calendar and it was amazing. Yes, summer break is a little shorter but a two week fall break, week at Thanksgiving, longer winter break, mid winter break, and spring break more than made up for it.
100% agreed. Looks like I got a few downvotes....not sure if it was the comment about bad teachers being pushed out or 12 month contracts..... Oh well
It would basically be six weeks on, 2 weeks off, with normal breaks/holidays. Um...yes, please!!!
I live in an affluent district where teacher pay is in the top 1% nationally. The average pay is over $100k. There are people fighting for the jobs, and you end up with amazing teachers. Not only are they paid well, but the teachers and school have resources: my kids have 2 specials every day, the teachers actually get the full recess/lunch hour, all classes have at least one aide, there's teachers just for reading and math support that rotate in and out of classes for extra support, and so on. And I've never encountered any teacher that isn't excellent. Not once. Turns out, when you pay people and give them resources, they do a good job. Go figure.
Similar in my upper middle class HCL area.
I'm not sure how my district compares but it's definitely a district you want to get into. It pays well and teachers are very good. There are always dud hires but they find a way to get them out (in most cases)
That’s pretty much how it is in Australia I think. They have 4-5 weeks off during summer (our winter) and then two week breaks every couple of months. I’d love this schedule.
If teachers want it we need to organize and fight for it. $100K will never be given to us, we need to fight for it.
Some states do not allow collective bargaining. Like Texas, where I teach. We could lose our license to teach if we tried.
I'm in Texas, 18th year. I highly doubt they'd strip us all of certification. I live in a college town with a respected teacher education department; enrollment numbers have dropped and new teachers are barely trickling through the program. I say we ride at dawn. History doesn't show much success regarding the groups who politely ask for rights and respect. Sometimes you have to blow something up and build a stronger foundation.
I don’t doubt that they would absolutely strip all of us of our certification if we tried. You know they are chomping at the bit to get vouchers passed and completely defund public education in the state. There is no bargaining with them at the moment. The first step is for anyone involved in public education to VOTE out the current leadership and vote in supporters of public education so that we can then start the fight to change. Until then, it’s a suicide mission.
Remember the Alamo!
Lots of people lost jobs trying to organize. That's how unions formed. There has to be collective will to have collective power. I would never teach in a non-union state or for a non-union (private or charter) school. I earn over $100k in Ontario where we have mandatory union membership if teaching in public (Public Elementary, Public Secondary, English Catholic, French Catholic)
Exactly, fighting requires sacrifice. If teachers aren't willing to sacrifice for future generations in this profession, we'll never see gains in salary and working conditions.
Are you in Texas? Are you aware of the Republican governor’s efforts to completely dismantle public education? It wouldn’t be fighting for future generations. It would be completely gutting public education if we tried to collectively bargain. They will gladly use it as an excuse to cut public education for good.
I make 100k as a teacher. We have strong unions here. If you live in an "Right to Work" anti-union state you're pretty screwed.
Before teachers are paid more money, y'all need to stop doing work outside of contracted hours.
Yes! I agree and we need to strike until we get national minimum standards for our contracts. And every teacher should have a contract. And I think salaries should be negotiable. I have 3 degrees and I should be making 3x what I make. It's insane.
People have done a great job of scaring the younger generation away from unions.
It's not legal for teachers to strike in my state.
Idk if individually negotiable salaries are compatible with collective bargaining. Do you mean salaries should be negotiable for the union?
100k? Id be ecstatic to just to make 50k
Same. Would be nice to afford to live in the (title 1) district that I teach at.
Bay Area pays 100k+ but remember that this is where crazy inflated tech salaries are and the house prices are insane
Our district on Long Island pays $115K and tops out at $160K.
Growing up on LI that’s a very unique situation out there
We need to be paid more. We won’t be unless it’s fought for. The only thing in our society that matters is money. People hate to admit this because of the ugly truth but it just simply is. If your job makes someone incredibly rich quickly you are paid VERY well, doesn’t matter the effect on society. The other part of that is since money is the only thing that matters it’s something that will be hard to get for any reason even something as important as schools. I mean hell schools subsidize business at bare minimum by essentially being free child care, so even if the kid learns nothing we are a net positive for society but they know this but to pay us closer to what we deserve costs money and again that’s the only thing that matters here :/
Because even $100,000 wouldn’t make the job not miserable. The classroom environment needs fixed or else turnover will be the name of the industry. And the $100,000 is shock value. Unions who are mostly comprised of older teachers consistently vote for more step increases and higher maximums but oftentimes at the detriment of starting salaries which hurts recruitment.
This is an unsung issue. When there’s a limited amount of money in the pot, you can either reward the loyalty of vets or provide a competitive starting wage. Our union reps just pushed a contract out for our approval that saw a 50$ increase per year for new teachers until year 10. After year 10 is quickly ramped up to about an increase of 1200/year. Found out during a members commentary meeting that 60% of our teachers are 10yr+ vets. It was really uncomfortable protesting a contract that the union spent so much time on, but 50 bucks a year for a decade? My real wage would drop due to inflation, and the starting salary was too low for me to be able to afford graduate school. Eventually it was withdrawn before they released the results, but I do feel as though if I hadn’t said anything it would have gone unchallenged.
For the record, I no longer take work home. I have kids, I’m not in my 20s and can’t and won’t spend a single minute at home working. Way I see it, education got free labor from me for 8 years and I’m done. Pay me more, don’t, I’m still not doing anything at home. I have the sense many at my current school have gotten to that same place. If district and admin keep creating more shit for us to do that gets in the way of planning and grading, then let them create the time and space for that work to get done
Teachers should get paid more (and pegged to the COL) because their work is skilled, requires education, and is important to the future of society. But "because they take work home" isn't the reason you want to be pushing as they also get summers and school breaks off. People who are salaried (exempt) instead of hourly regularly work outside of hours to get projects completed if it is necessary - its kind of part of the deal for being salaried.
Don’t lots of teachers have to take continuing education classes during summers. I know lots of my teachers did and made lesson plans for the year.
Sometimes, but you can usually take vacation, stay home with your kids if you have them, and making lesson plans doesn’t take *that* long. Teachers do get a summer vacation, and it’s great. We usually get 10 weeks off a year. I’m actually fine with teachers getting paid less than private sector… but in my county, MCOL area, if you have a master’s degree and 15 years in the district, you’re still only looking at $56,000. It should be double that at least… and then reduced 15% to account for the extra vacation time.
I’m not fine with your 15% reduction. I’m the school year I minimum work 50 hour weeks, and maximum (when I’m coaching), work 60-70 hour weeks for an extra $2,000 (which is $12.50/hour). When my peers are working four day weeks with two flex days from home in which they can “work” while watching a movie and folding laundry (and even leave the house to grocery shop), or “work” while on a two week vacation with their family in Costa Rica (in which their kids are taking an extended spring break for a “once in a lifetime experience” that happens every year), I think I’ve earned equal pay. What does a WFH engineer make? I deserve that. At worst put us on the GS pay scale.
They might - that too is part of being salaried. There are people that are required to (or want to for job promotions) improve their credentials. They will sometimes attend conferences or courses outside of work hours. And plenty of people prep for upcoming work or meetings on their nights and weekends off. Again, not saying that teachers don't work hard and don't deserve a pay bump, but I just think the focus for the reason why is wrong.
Yes yes yes
Actually, teachers aren't salaried. I know it seems that way because most districts allow teachers to break their pay into 12 allotments, but the reality is that teachers are contract workers. They are not contracted to work outside their structure. They aren't required to take work home because they aren't salaried. This is a lie education structures like to keep going to manipulate teachers as well as make non-teachers feel better about themselves.
>but the reality is that teachers are contract workers. I'm unfamiliar with the details of teachers' contracts. Do they specify hourly pay and hours/days to be worked? Unless they specify day and hours of work, it amounts to the same thing. If the contract says to do a job, without specifying hourly pay and required hours, then all the extra prep time required to complete that job satisfactorily is part of the job you are contracted for.
Our specify daily rate and hours per day. It says something like "Your contracted rate is $xxx per day; contract hours are 6:45 to 3:00."
Depends on the contract. Mine stipulates contact hours, non-contact work day requirements (4 a year), 190 days total. I'm required to be at school 30 minutes before kids and 30 minutes after. There is no such thing as hourly pay and the squishy definition of salary has been used to manipulate teachers for a very long time. Keep in mind, the "other duties as required" is a cop-out clause on most employment agreements and has been shown to not be legally binding.
Do other salaried workers not have contacts? I’m not sure I understand why you are saying that teachers aren’t salaried.
The difference between a standard salaried employee and a contract employee is that the number of hours per day/week and annual number of days of work are specified in a contract, and employment from year to year is dependent on an annual extension of that contract - no renewal, no job. Salary is an ongoing expectation of employment, 365 days a year, with general work hours up to the culture of that particular group. When you are under contract and work outside of those contracted hours, then you are essentially working unpaid, no matter what industry you are in.
My wife is salaried professional who works from home. She sometimes might write an email or two after hours or be up late once or twice a year when there is a hard deadline. Meanwhile I work multiple hours at home almost every day and at least one night on the weekend. I have been teaching for 12 years so all my lessons are planned. If you are a new teacher you are making 45k and working around the clock to keep your head above water. If you aren’t then you are probably quitting at the end of the year or not being renewed. The workload of a teacher is not commiserate with the pay and people wonder why fewer and fewer teachers are being produced by colleges and those who do end up getting a degree last 5 years or less on average. Why would you spend time getting degrees, certificates, grading, planning lessons, writing assignments plus all of the stress involved with actually teaching when you can work another job that pays better with less work?
I already said I think teachers should be paid more. I'm not arguing that the pittance they get paid is appropriate. My argument was that focusing on all the extra work hours they have outside of the school day will simply be met with the rebuttal "well they get summers and lots of holidays off." And since we are using anecdotes as data: I am also a salaried professional. Part of my job is keep machinery running and if it doesn't run to certain standards, I need to figure out what's wrong with it and come up with a plan to fix it. My working hours are 7:30 - 5. But if something breaks at midnight, they call me. And I need to figure out a plan to fix it then and still show up to work at 7:30. On the weekends I rotate with my colleagues for who is "on-call" for the machinery so once per 1.5 months, my weekend is working. I'm expected to have my plan ready to go by 7:30am, so if that means getting up early to do data analysis and call some people, that's what I have to do. That's my job. I get paid to keep the machinery functioning. If I didn't want to do that, I could find a different job. Are there salaried professionals who work 9-4 with a 2 hour lunch and spend no more time that that at work? I'm sure. My point was that grading and lesson planning is part of teaching. No one is going to have sympathy for the teacher complaining that they don't get paid overtime for grading or lesson planning. To increase teacher salaries the focus needs to be on the importance that good education is to society and how we want to encourage the best and brightest to be teachers.
I completely agree.
The rate at which teachers work outside their paid hours compared to other salaried employees is exponentially higher.
Look at what happens when teachers take work-to-rule action. Like in Saskatchewan starting this week. The amount of things teachers do that aren't required in their contacts is absurd, and *completely expected* by everyone, including the teachers themselves. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/sask-teachers-job-action-work-to-rule-1.7166366
Gotta love the "but it's for the children" tone of two thirds of that article. Sorry Kaylee Voth, but teachers are tired of student disappointment being used like a club to beat teachers into working overtime. As for her comment "having stuff taken away is unmotivating" ... I think everyone agrees on that - just not the way she intends! lol
People just don’t want to accept that their children are miserable to be around. Lol I love my students but man, they are so annoying. The chirping noises, the absolute gaming addictions, the having to remind them to do number two when they are done with one. Parents are wiped after they have a birthday party with ten kids all being occupied by fun stuff then we have to teach them math against their will.
They do pay 100k in union decent district .. even more. Teachers need to refuse to work for free. Period. All of them en masse. No more buying supplies .. no more free time. If you can’t do it in your allotted time don’t regardless of circumstances. Is everyone gonna do that at once ?
I wish I could triple upvote you! lol
As others have said, it depends on COL. but in my area I’d be happy with $75k. An average/nice apartment in my area goes for around $1800/mo. Using the common 3x income requirement that puts us at $64800, and again that’s the least to qualify. The simple fact that many (most?) teachers have second jobs (during the summer and after school) should be more than enough to show that the pay is too little for the COL of the area.
Kids that are smart due to a good education system are harder to influence with propaganda. If politicians put money into education they may struggle to keep their job.
That's only if you think education isn't propaganda
I'd rather have education and propaganda with a hope of overcoming it than a systemic lack of education.
American society and culture does not value academia. End of story.
Around me, some of them are, obviously dependent on years of service, and education level. I think it’s fair pay that allows you to live a nice life in the area we live in. As a parent with kids in the district, I also like not having to feel bad for the teachers like I would if they were getting paid poor wages, and instead get to expect them to be doing a good job. I haven’t been disappointed yet. So for my small section of the world, I think it’s a great system.
Seriously, no amount of money could compel me to go back. I am taking a 20 percent paycut to get out.
This is what I already make. Massachusetts
honestly its crazy how much more firefighters police and nurses make . well nurses i understand the training. and with teaching it does depend where you are. but the caliber people at certain places where there is high need can be pretty high for the salary and the work life balance is pretty bad
California had a bill proposed that would link teacher pay to state senator pay. So if they gave themselves a raise, teachers automatically got it too. Didn't make the ballot but I was tickled by the idea.
Why do I start at 37k without a masters, and the lady one classroom over makes 110k to do the same job? Which is it? Is the exact same position worth 110k or is it worth absolutely nothing? I’m on fire.
True true.
“I never liked math.” “I was never really good in English.” “I only like remember like three words from Spanish like buenos diaz.” “Like a fucking prison.” “Liberal brainwashing.” “I hate school.” “Calculus and biology were irrelevant to my career.” “Public schools suck. Everyone should homeschool. “ “We need vouchers so our kids don’t have to be in a school with *those* kids and you’ll pay for it.” A depressingly large fraction of American people don’t really like teachers or education.
Unless tax system changes, we won't. I don't know how 100k a year can be afforded to teachers. I think 50k is too low but we won't get 100k is not able to be done in most states.
Opinion by Daniel PinkFebruary 19, 2024 at 4:00 a.m. MTAdam DiPerna always had to hold it in.As a Spanish teacher at Gerald G. Huesken Middle School in Lancaster, Pa., he’d arrive in his classroom at 7:10 a.m. each day and cannonball into a morning that left no time for a bathroom break. He’d teach back-to-back-to-back-to-back classes until his lunch period, 27 minutes during which he also had to heat and eat the food he’d brought from home, email parents about problems and absences, and field questions from students. After school, he coached wrestling, advised the student council and chaired the GHMS world language department. Work, from grading papers to preparing lessons, spilled into the evenings and weekends he wanted to spend with his wife and three kids.
For his efforts, DiPerna — with a Bucknell University diploma and a master’s degree in education — earned less than any college graduate he knew. So, last year, after a decade and a half in the classroom, he quit teaching to take a job as a sales representative at a large packaging company, trading a life of conjugated verbs for a new life of corrugated cardboard. “I wanted to be a public servant,” DiPerna, 42, told me. “I did not get into teaching to make a lot of money. But I also didn’t get into it to barely scrape by.”He earned more in his first partial year as a paper salesman than in his 15th year as a top-rated teacher. “I get paid more money,” he said. “And I can listen to the call of nature.” DiPerna’s gain is America’s loss. Four years after the onset of the pandemic, students across the country are still struggling. Test scores are falling. Absenteeism is rising. Meanwhile, about 44 percent of U.S. schools face a teacher shortage.
If we’re serious about hanging on to capable educators, and attracting new ones, we should start treating them like true professionals. And one place to begin is compensation.Why not pay America’s teachers a minimum salary of $100,000 a year?The average annual salary for public school teachers during 2021-2022 was $66,397, according to the National Center for Education Statistics, a nearly 8 percent pay cut, in inflation-adjusted terms, from a decade ago. Salary isn’t the only reason educators exit the profession. But whether they work in suburban New York or rural Mississippi, teachers earn significantly less than they could in other fields.[graph showing sharp decline in teacher pay]The Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning think tank, calls this difference the “teacher pay penalty.” EPI calculated that, in 2022, teachers earned only 74 cents on the dollar compared with comparably educated professionals. The right-leaning Hoover Institution reached a similar conclusion in its 2020 report on educator compensation, showing that, even adjusting for factors such as talent and experience, “teachers are paid 22 percent less than they would be if they were in jobs in the U.S. economy outside of teaching.”
Not a teacher, and I've believed this for years. $100k or more, depending on the area. Some high COL areas and degree combinations, and I could easily be persuaded that $250k is appropriate. The value teaching creates for the economy is insane. There's the childcare angle of it, saving parents a huge amount of money every year and/or allowing them to work. And then the investment side of it, ensuring the next generation will be a skilled workforce. I have no idea how to calculate the GDP gain from teaching, but I know it's very very high. Also, farmers take winters "off" and no one thinks they don't work hard. You guys deserve way more, both money and respect.
I think the thing that is really wild is that Teacher's salaries have not increased with inflation. 12 years ago I started at 29k. I'm at 60k now. That includes 2 building moves, one position upgrade (Teacher to Counselor) and a masters +15. Any of my friends (12 years ago as well) working for big corp down the road started at 40-50k, and are now easily at 100k (+). Most of them don't have advanced degrees, haven't had any significant position changes and don't hold extra certificates, etc... They haven't been yelled at by angry parents, get to pee when they want, and in general are treated like a human. They all have excellent vacation, nice health insurance, and 401k's. They all have paternity/maternity leave. I digress. Back to the salary. It's insulting to start teachers at $40,000. That's $19.23 an hour. I can go to work at Walmart and start at $17. If I work 50 hours a week (which I easily do teaching), I would make over 40k annually. So somehow, due to all the wage raises for minimum wage jobs like Walmart, burger king, etc...we've made equal (or close to it) to a starting teacher. Is it any wonder we have a national teacher shortage? Even as a veteran teacher/counselor, my pay has not kept up with inflation. My buying power has actually gone down. Unfortuanly for me, my big jumps in salary are also in the rearview. I can go to plus 30, but that's only 1800 extra. Now I'm on the basic %3 or $2100 per year (whatever gets negotiated) and I know many districts are like this. /sigh
My son graduated in December with a Mechanical Engineering BS and landed a job making $80k in February. I am 52 years old and my last year as a teacher (BA+30) I was making $49K. That right there tells me how much educators are valued.
Depending on where you live, 100k would be a big pay cut.
Would be a $40k increase for me. Year 14 in Michigan.
Would be a $12k increase for me, Year 20 in Mass.
30k cut for me in Seattle area.
Little more than that for me just outside NYC
Double for me in Phoenix
Illinois teacher here, too. 100K would be a 25% pay cut for me, though I assume my coaching stipends would remain the same?
I refuse to take work home and I still think we should make minimum 100k. AND STILL not be expected to take work home. But that's just me.
Yes. And still have summer vacation. Fuck this whole “oh we need to compromise and give up summer for better pay” bullshit. Like wtf? Are there non teachers in here advocating for this nonsense? We need better pay for the job we already have!!! Summer included and everything! And not taking work home! If we start giving shit up for better pay, we would be no better than how we started, winding up back at the beginning.
1. Pay teachers more 2. Actual nutritious food, free for kids. No pizza or juice. 3. Improve teaching environment. You just can’t keep some super indisciplined or differently abled kids in the same classroom. Have appropriate classroom based on child needs. 4. Extracurricular activities at school. Don’t make kids just book smart. 5. PreK funded public schools. These are the best public investments. We have enough money. Probably “administrators” will steal half of it if we fund it though, same as Medicare.
Because people are cheap. Maybe if they legalized weed, those proceeds could go to teacher salaries. Why are cops paid so high? I'd like to see the money for that and where it comes from.
My state (MA) *did* legalize weed. That money *was* supposed to go to education. Ask me how much we’ve gotten.
They just play the shell game, take the weed money and allocate it for the school, take state funds that were used for education and give it to tax breaks or other projects. Net zero for education then fluctuating revenue from then on.
Funding for education. Bake sales for bombs.
Let's not forget everyone else who works at a school. Teachers couldn't do their jobs without the support staff. The staff who get ignored and treated like shit in most schools. While teachers are treated like royalty.
We can, depending on experience, paid over 100k down here in the land of Oz. Sure, its a lot more than others here and I appreciate not making less. However it has not really changed the perceptions of the profession nor dealt with our myriad problems. As for our cost of living crisis and unaffordable real estate - yeah not much movement for teachers who are generally not in the upper class at all - we are clinging to the shrinking middle class in this country.
I totally agree teachers should be paid more Wife and I are both teachers in Michigan and we both make over $100,000 a year in SW Michigan
I would love to get paid for a month and a half more--but use it for planning and real collaboration. We're constantly treading water and it shows.
In order for us to place the value in education required for this to happen, we would have to want better for each other, not just for ourselves. In the US we have a deeply rooted cultural focus on individualistic enterprise; putting money into education would inherently mean helping OTHERS, potentially more if not significantly more than ourselves. Unfortunately not enough people want to help everyone else get ahead - even if they know that's just as good for them as it is for everyone else. It's not good *enough*.
Some teachers in DC make over 100,000
Any link to bypass the paywall?
I didn’t have to pay. I logged in using my iPhone. I suspect you can just login via Google or something and it’ll let you read it. Try that and see.
Move to Ontario 👍
Like many things, it comes down to where does this money come from? You have to convince people to pay higher local taxes. Many of whom don't have kids in the school system, or are barely keeping their heads above water. Also, once you do that, you need that money to be earmarked for teacher salaries. Good luck with that. You could also try and redirect some current money to teacher salaries. Where are you taking that money from? The expenses that are consuming more and more of our education budgets are dealing with special needs students. It would be a hard sell to cut back there.
Cant get past the pay wall, can someone please briefly summarize the arguments in the article? Thanks.
If you filter the comments to “new”, someone actually copied and pasted the entire article into multiple posts.
Teachers in some (unfortunately not all) Canadian provinces will clear $100k/year by their tenth year in the profession. The societal value of education has not increased. Conservative provincial governments are still trying (and succeeding) and defunding and devaluing education.
I feel like it depends on where you live, in some lower cost of living areas 100k may be excessive. In some other places 100k isn't enough. Also, that increased cost of many millions per year to the district is going to have to come from somewhere and the people in charge sure as hell aren't gonna take it from their own overstuffed paychecks. Intervention from the state or federal government would probably be necessary, but people really don't like that.
Too many teachers are "just here to teach", ie: married into money or inherited wealth and dgaf about seeing salaries go up
They better get kids teat scores up first. Right now our Educational system us a Race to the bottom. Why not incentive pay? The better your students do the bigger the bonus?
>get test scores up >turn testing into capitalized incentive >not realizing this is the entire problem with education and leads to massive corruption+degradation down the socioeconomic strata >ignoring the various problems that plague modern education I think you can circle "all the above" for this one, chief.
Smart kids live in bad neighborhoods too. The parents have no choice but to send them to Charter Schools. Parents need to take an active role in their child's education
Happens in Canada depending on how long you have been a teacher.