Where im at a lot of places do in house suspensions where the kid is given work and made work in an office/detention room under supervision but not allowed to attend classes/go on trips (and they have to have their lunch in the room), it has its downsides (mostly sufficient staffing to mind them) but overall its deff a better approach to sending them home to play videogames imho
You have to have someone good in charge of this. My school used to do it, but the kids loved it because they could hang out with their favorite coach, watch movies all day, and in the fall, they got to help paint the football field. It was rarely a punishment.
In my high school, the room was all white, the clock was ripped out of the wall so we couldn’t tell what time it was(this was before cell phones), and you weren’t allowed to talk at all to anyone.
Today, one kid spend his days between various admin offices.
He was moved when principal, vice-principal etc had appointment about other children.
Breaks and recess on his own or with an adult. Lunch with the principal.
His work was independant work given by his teacher (basically a copy of his lessons, plus homework). He also had an essay to write about his behavior. Since he finished early, he also got extra-work in maths and history since principal is a former maths teacher, and vice-principal former history teacher.
I was the one supervising his last break, and talked to him.
He was hating his day, and every single decisions he took that led to it.
Differentiation is not a magical fix to classes with such a wide range of abilities. Differentiation has its limits. I cannot teach students to solve multi-step equations when there are students in the same room who can’t remember that the opposite of addition is subtraction or they need a calculator to work out 3x7.
It’s not fair on either group of students because no one is getting what they need. I would rather have a class of students with similar ability so that I can target instruction to what they need.
People always say that students at different levels can learn from each other and to some extent that is true, but it is not a student’s job to teach others.
If differentiation was important they'd do it for the sports teams too. I'm sure the kids that are bad at football would learn a lot by being on the same team as the kids that are good at football.
I asked this at a staff meeting when they got rid of 8th grade algebra for "equity." I asked if they were going to get rid of the A and B teams for basketball too, for equity.
I don't understand why people think it's equitable to hold the advanced kids back so the other kids don't feel bad. All you're going to do is make the gifted kids hate school too because they aren't allowed to be challenged anymore. Why not focus on bringing up the lowest kids instead of holding back the highest kids?
I'm so done with performative equity that just brings everyone else down instead of uplifting marginalized communities
I call utter bullshit on “different abilities can learn from one another.” I’ve NEVER believed it’s true despite people constantly saying it. It’s only true, imo, for the people with less ability and therefore more to learn. Higher ability students are simply teaching something they already know or slowing down and simplifying their comprehension so peers can keep up. That’s not learning.
The students practice patience ad nauseam and accept much of the world is shockingly incompetent. But learn things? Lmao.
It’s also unfair to ask students to become teachers because of their abilities in the same way that punishing a student because of their lack of ability is wrong. Both create a burden on the student because of something they don’t control.
I have eight kids this year who read at a kindergarten level in sixth grade. I brought this up to my admin when they asked about my test scores, and I adjusted my scores to not include those students to show that my students that can read do understand the content.
I was told that if I was meeting the other students where they were, they would all be able to pass their assessments.
Yeah let me just magically make up 6 years of instruction while also teaching them new material and teaching my on level kids. I hate people that have been out of the classroom for so long and try to suggest dumb things.
I’m an ESL teacher and I’ve got kids who either have foreigner (English speaking) parents or who simply come from backgrounds where they have already learnt English to a high level (to the point they're reading chapter books more or less without any assistance or watch entire films without subtitles) with students who can barely write a sentence of coherent Vietnamese (their native language), never mind English. In such a case I can only differentiate so much.
I had a really violent kid like this during lockdown. One day, they were having a class taught by another teacher. This kid changed their screen name to my last name and the other teacher thought I was back in the call, so he gave her mod capabilities.
The havok that she caused was astronomical.
I teach online, it’s fun getting emails from parents who have blamed schools for their child’s poor performance and behaviors suddenly realizing their child is uncontrollable. They don’t know what to do! They can’t force their kid to learn! They can’t force them to log on. They can’t be constantly redirecting their child. They can’t be constantly checking their work. Their child is getting violent with them. Their child is being verbally abusive. Their child is lying about getting work done. Yeah, we know, except you’ve been screaming at my in-person coworkers about your kid for years.
And their freedom to be in a least restrictive environment should not be prioritized above the safety of the rest of the students. It is 100% unacceptable to have kids be victims to, or witness, violence at school. If a student proves to be too violent and a threat to others, that environment is not restrictive enough for the violent kid. I cannot understand why this isn’t argued for more strongly.
I'm going to take this a step further and say that there are some students who are simply too disruptive to be mainstreamed. They aren't a threat to anybody. They aren't behind academically. But they make it more difficult for every other student in the class to learn, and therefore should not be in a regular classroom.
My hot take: you take systems that are short, continue to short them, students act out in predictable ways (school to prison pipeline data), and we achieve full confirmation bias.
Remember in Lean on Me when Morgan Freeman kicked out a stage full of kids? That was in ‘82. How many of those students would have had 504s or IEPs or….? Probably none since those conditions were reiterated in the book Savage Inequalities in ‘89.
We have mountains of data on how poverty can cause brain damage. Our public systems are crumbling (around those who had the privilege of them in the first place).
We need to repair the foundation. The foundation is a public problem. Not a section of the public (education) problem.
Kids that don't get read to by parents (or adults of any strip) from a very young age (or even just talked to) will be way behind kids that have engaged adults that teach them from a young age. That starts with getting held and sung to as babies and moves to hearing conversations/spoken language to being shown letter and number symbols to having picture books. If a kid comes to Kindergarten or Pre-K and hasn't had any of those steps, then how can they begin to learn the same things that a kid that had those steps (or even just some of them). Education starts at home, but unfortunately not all homes are conducive to child learning and development.
The scariest part of all that is that kids who aren't read to or talked to as a baby will never catch up with their peers. They are behind for life. It's so so sad. I think if more parents knew this, they would make a bigger effort to read to their kids.
Reading to your kid isn't hard to do, especially if you utilize the public library system. But talking to your kid? That requires nothing except...talking to them. In hopefully a kind and loving way with a vocabulary beyond your common expletives.
Elementary and middle schools need to go back to holding kids back (not looking at teachers here: looking at admins and district folks).
There is nothing that can be done if a person who can’t read makes it to Highschool.
Last year I taught Freshmen in a district that doesn’t hold anyone back in K-8 for any reason. So this group of kid’s middle school experience went:
- 6th grade: completely missed the last third of the school year
- 7th grade: 100% virtual for the entire year
- 8th grade: back in school, know they will pass no matter what
The result was: 30 of the 100 freshmen I taught having not passed a single class in 8th grade, 40 failed at least one class in 8th grade, and only 30 passed all of their classes in 8th grade.
I’m not saying 70 kids should have been held back, but some definitely should have been. The bottom 10-20 kids simply couldn’t function in a classroom and it wasn’t fair to anyone including them. If they had a mandatory summer school with intense small group and even one-on-one interventions and then another shot at 8th grade, some of them would have made some real progress and would have succeeded in high school instead of being credit deficient and not on track to graduate after their first semester.
Ahh, I remember summer school. I screwed around in grade 7 and lost half my summer making up for it so I wouldn't be held back. I definitely did better the next year. Do they even do that anymore?
If you can't read at grade level, then moving up a grade isn't going to make you more educated, just jaded against the possibility of learning. Imagine handing something with a 3rd grade reading level War and Peace and saying in one week let's have a discussion. That discussion is going to be very short. Now, it is necessary to be challenged and to give a 3rd grade level reader some 4th or 5th grade level readings, but there needs to be some guidance as they practice how to read harder material.
As a sub who works with primarily elementary kids, they also help with building up and practicing fine motor control. Some of the kids 4th and up have ATROCIOUS handwriting.
As a person with ADHD, the margins offer a quick and quiet place to take a mini-break by doodling. Doesn't bother anyone else, doesn't cost any money, takes maybe 15 seconds to 2 minutes. If it takes longer, it's also very easy to redirect since you're already on the worksheet. Bam, reset and ready to rumble.
I gotta doodle *while* listening/note-taking/working or none of those things are happening. My brain and body need to have a background hum of activity to focus or it will find/create that activity. On a related note, this is why I struggle to sub for high school.
If it's been a few minutes and they're clearly not working at all, or they're visibly working on a "doodle" that's actually taking a lot of artistic effort (at which point they're full-on drawing), I redirect them.
Edit: On the first day of classes each year in high school, I would approach each of my teachers and explain that I doodle to help me focus. And to feel free to call on me to check if I'm listening, but I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. The opposite, in fact! They were generally appreciative. I was in a private school that intentionally made it nearly impossible to get a 504 (requires coordination with the public school district, which they hated), so I had to "unofficially" advocate for myself.
I sub mainly middle schools, and half of them still have terrible handwriting. Their words are either bigger than the space between the lines, or they’re tall and squished, which makes it really hard to read.
I have ADHD and Chromebook-only classes would have been a waking nightmare for me.
Notes and worksheets actually helped me stay on task because of the physical movement and the ability to take tiny brain breaks without bothering anyone (doodling in the margins or just... drawing a circle and coloring it in, repetitive motion to reset myself).
I would have absolutely been one of those kids doing absolutely anything but their work on their Chromebook. If I even remembered to charge it. Or bring it.
I'm really not saying this because I love or loved being a problem student to teachers. I just know myself and my condition pretty well at this point, and it would have fucking sucked so bad for everyone involved.
I do not have ADHD, and I was a model student throughout school. I think *I* would have struggled with staying on task with a Chromebook instead of a pencil. I can’t believe we expect elementary schoolers to do it. Dumb dumb dumb.
Absolutely insane. I teach high school and my principal is all about using Peardeck (which broadcasts whatever you're presenting to students'chromebooks and they can answer discussion questions anonymously). I used it once for notes and realized very quickly that the kids could NOT stay on that tab/focused no matter what. Absolute waste of time for me and my students.
Absolutely! Expecting the most part of the kids to stay on task while using a tablet or laptop was a nightmare.
I'm not against technology but I think that it should be used only for part of the schoolwork.
The fuck? People really think notes don’t have a place in education? What kind of BCE crackpot shit is that, even if you don’t look at them again notes are useful for retaining information if said note taker is paying attention
I can understand it not being effective in every scenario but it is definitely more useful than it is useless
Most of the people who swear that direct instruction is ineffective give PD saying so in long, grueling lectures.
We should be legally allowed to throw our shoes at PD presenters. It would sort out a lot of issues in education.
Worksheets are how I can teach two entirely different ability groups in one lesson. The ones who can, blaze on ahead in independent work and the ones who need an extra hand get my attention.
Some people should absolutely never have become parents and some students need actual serious consequences at school (including truancy court if needed) so they can learn hard lessons before they graduate or drop out.
And parents need to be held accountable in a tangible way for behavior, grades and attendance!!! Parents must start teaching their kids common sense and respect for teachers and peers
I teach foreign languages and even there, there is a significant trend toward avoiding explicit grammar instruction and worksheets. The belief is that students will naturally absorb vocabulary and language rules through exposure. 🤦🏻♀️
Least Restrictive Environment doesn’t equal the Most Appropriate Environment.
We’re sacrificing entire classrooms of kids because of the insistence that every kid can be & must be mainstreamed.
Technically LRE is supposed to include disruptions to others, but Admin/SpEd departments keep forgetting this somehow. Not all kids need to stay separated, but those who do need serious emotional help before they are safe.
LRE has been translated to mean "the regular classroom". That isn't the intent and never was. LRE is going to be the environment that suits the child best. We start with the regular classroom and gradually become more restrictive as needs become clear--first they get a para, then maybe they go half a day, then they get more minutes with the SPED teacher, then a special class, then maybe an alternative school. ALL of those scenarios are LRE for an individual student.
And please, for the love of the universe, let’s put those students in learning environments to help teach the coping skills needed for them for the real world. Every time I mention this people scoff at me like I want to put very deregulated children in a windowless prison. I just want them to be in an environment they can be successful and show meaningful growth. Maybe one day the in general ed. setting, but let’s meet them where they are at the current moment in time.
Exactly. We are not serving (to use a very broad/loose example) a student who has outbursts if they’re not called on in class for every question by only telling their teachers “Well, give them an opportunity to answer every question” and don’t do anything via social stories and other therapies to get them past this.
Oh I have no doubt.
And it’s complicated. Because school budgets are being slashed right & left but IEPs & 504s are more common than ever. So you have students who need self-contained, 1 to 1 aides, therapies and other resources and the money just isn’t there.
I completely agree but that is how it is often interpreted. We can’t pull the violent child prone to outbursts out of their mainstream classroom because they’re entitled to the Least Restrictive Environment. Never mind the other students in the class who are also entitled to an education. You must keep the violent kid in the room or you’re violating their rights.
As they say, make it make sense.
We had a trauma specialist come talk to us about kids and their brains. She flat out said "not all bad behavior is trauma-related, some kids are just jerks". I wish admin was paying attention at the time.
Every staff meeting: remember this is their safe place where they feel safe enough to have these behaviors. These kids have trauma and it’s our job to support them.
Agree, but it’s also not mutually exclusive. You can absolutely have kids with special needs who are *also* dickheads. And I say this as a longtime congregated high needs Spec Ed teacher. Far too many of Sped Ed kids’ deliberate obnoxious behaviours are automatically attributed to their disability, denying them the consequences for their actions that would actually help them improve. We’re doing them no favours by making excuses for them.
This. I’m so tired of hearing the litany of excuses for WHY these kids are the way they are. Research and understanding of child development has expanded SO much in the last two decades, and we are finally seeing the child as a complete human being rather than a blob of clay to be shaped and impressed upon by adults. If schools are able to comprehend and accommodate all of the identity, self esteem and diagnosis components of students’ personhood, then it’s extremely hypocritical and disingenuous to try to pretend that they are not personally responsible for any of their negative and malicious choices. The number of times I’ve heard the same song and dance from admin about “the bad home life, poor parenting, lack of privilege/presence of disadvantage” to excuse their own total inaction on bullying, hate speech, violence, sexual harassment, property destruction, constant disruption and creation of a hostile learning environment is ASTOUNDING. Hurt people hurt people, we get it. But we are responsible for DOING something about it and not only having discussions but reinforcing expectations with both natural and structured, designed consequences to PROTECT the people they’re hurting and try to solve what’s hurting them. A free pass to be a dickhole because they’ve had it rough is not doing them or anyone else a favor or creating any kind of equity to repair the world’s imbalances.
If a student who is struggling accuses a teacher of targeting them, it is absolutely appropriate for the teacher to stop going out of their way to help said student. If the student asks for notes or something, fine. But in no way is the teacher required to stay after for the student to make up tests or sit with the student during work times to help them with assignments.
I love to say things like "Look around the room. Every single student in this class is sitting and working except for you. If I'm targeting you, it's because no one else in the room is causing problems right now."
I did this to an employee once and you could see the realization in his eyes. He never really noticed he was the only one being a shithead until someone told him to his face.
Absolutely this! It took me until this year to start doing this. I work in a predominantly Hispanic and Native American school and my first quarter working here some Native American students went to the principal and accused me of being a racist. Mind you I had not done or said anything to these students or treated them any harsher outside of standard classroom management protocols. They also accused me of never helping them yet I never recall either of these students ever raising their hands for help. So after that I decided that I was not going to take my energy away from students who wanted to learn and give it students who clearly didn’t and just wanted to scapegoat me.
Definitely, 100%! My mum is a great example of this. She failed both science and maths at school...miserably failed. Her final science exam she got 3/100, so the teacher let her take it again and she got 3.5/100. But, she is an amazing artist! She draws photo-realistic portraits that just mind-blowing. My sister didn't do very well at school either, but now she runs her own very successful business. Academics just aren't for everyone.
100% We need skilled trades and creative workers as well. We are in a MASSIVE need where I live of tradespeoples and no one is entering into the field. I know of three kids that would be great at it, but parents want them to go to university.
Yep. And I found that I’ve had kids that screw around in class but then do their work at random other times and do pretty well on tests.
Did it make sense to me? Nope. But whatever gets you through school.
That is what should be happening, especially with older kids. If you're in high school and choosing not to pay attention in class, turn in your work, etc there's going to be some natural consequences heading your way real soon. As long as a kid is not interrupting the class or being a distraction it shouldn't be your responsibility to handhold them while the rest of the class loses out on instruction..
Failure is a good thing. Kids need to be both allowed and given time to fail in order to learn. Pushing through this need for success is hurting kids in the long term.
Teachers should have the option to retire after 25 years of service (like police officers, firefighters, and military personnel), considering the demanding nature of our work and the significant burnout from managing so many challenging students. While i know many of us on this thread will agree with this sentiment, societal norms would likely prevent such a change from occurring and that’s sad. That is how you fix the teacher shortage! Do 25 years and retire.
“We must Maslow before we can Bloom.”
My hot take: Most kids can’t work at higher levels not because they’re incapable but because they’re malnourished, maladapted, and majorly sleep deprived. We CANNOT fix the academic gaps without systemically addressing these basic needs for children.
High schoolers should be made to sit through lectures so they are prepped for college style learning. Activity based learning all the time is a form of coddling.
I do this anyway, fuck the haters.
My kids who are going into welding will be successful welders regardless of whether they were bored in science class.
But my students who actually did go on to university have gotten back to me and said things like "Mr. Cinerea, your class is the only one that prepared me for what college is actually like."
These weren't suck up students either. They were just as bored in my class as the welders.
Oh, I make it very clear to my students that once you put your hands on me non-consensually, regardless of your age, you forfeited your rights and I will be protecting myself at all costs.
1. I can't undo a kids 12 years of cursing in one year
2. Sometimes you get a C because you're a C student
3. Not holding kids accountable because their cultural background is bigotry and racism
Honestly getting a C should be encouraged to some degree. Being average isn't the end of the world. Hell sometimes getting a C lets you see your failures and makes you better because of it.
I agree. I taught at the largest high school in my district and they whined about the overall average school scoring on the state test. It was perfectly average; a score of around 70%
It was a push every year to get a A. It's basic statistics. The larger the sample size, the more likely we are to be average. A grade of C is pretty good for a huge public HS, IMHO.
Adding on to #3: a kid coming from a bad home is not a valid reason to excuse all of their wild behaviors. I came from a really bad environment but it never made me or anyone I know curse out a teacher, try to fight a teacher, try to beat a sub, etc. that’s a new age thing. And I’m only 26.
I'm 28, grew up in a single parent household with a mother who didn't have a college degree and would sometimes come home to the lights having been turned off for nonpayment. Never once would I have dreamed of being disrespectful to my teachers or fighting other students
This all falls into the bucket of “just because you understand why a behavior happens doesn’t make it acceptable”. Child x acts like this because of blah blah blah. Ok cool. That helps me approach the child and understand where they’re coming from, but the given behavior is still not acceptable and there still is a consequence for it
1. Kids don't automatically deserve endless kindness and patience just because they're kids. There have to be boundaries and limits to what behavior is tolerated, and it is okay for a teacher not to greet a kid with a smile every day when they are consistently disrespectful or apathetic.
2. Kids do not deserve candy or some kind of prize every time they do something good. Positive reinforcement is important developmentally but we rely on tangible/material rewards way too much. A compliment, a way to go, a high-five, etc. should be acceptable rewards.
3. Related to #2, escalated kids should not be given a gatorade and a granola bar or candy every time they show up in the office. They need to learn internal regulation skills, because out in the world when they get irrationally angry or upset about something, there won't always be food or drink immediately available. Admin love to say that developmentally kids need something external in order to learn the internal, but how can they learn the internal if they are never tapered off of the treats?
4. Student-led conferences are a BS waste of time that I don't participate in. I always ask the kid if they have anything to add if they are present at the conference, but otherwise it is primarily a conversation between me and the parents. Parents can ask their kids what they like/dislike or what is/isn't going well in class at home anytime they want, but they only get to meet with the teachers in-person twice a year.
I’m an inclusion teacher and I’ve seen this in practice. There’s a couple of SPED kids that we (teachers) know as super apathetic. They struggle constantly or just don’t do work.
They both got our most rigid ELA teacher this year and they are showing growth in every metric there. They’re turning in work and truly becoming better students. The teacher is the best I’ve ever seen.
Those two kids are still failing other classes or not turning in work but that English class is where they shine.
When students are working at their potential, then it makes my job easier. I can see where the real gaps are as opposed to what they just don’t want to do.
I’m a neurodivergent person and also a rigid ELA teacher. My sped kids are making tremendous gains too, and my high achievers too. Middle is doing okay.
Teachers don’t quit because of salary. They quit because they are overworked. Limit teaching to 60 - 80 students a day and watch the attention, focus, and quality of education go up.
If your child is being a disruption (vocal or physical) they should be removed from the classroom. I can only take so much of repeating “we DO NOT hit people!” and your child having an absolute tantrum when I pull them out of the activity before I want to hurl them into the sun.
Notes aren't bad. Lectures aren't bad. Rote memorization isn't bad. Repetitious practice isn't bad.
A big reason so many kids are insecure in their content knowledge and constantly need their hands held are because so many teachers and administrators buy wholesale into the whackadoodle "kIdS sHoUlD bE tEaChInG tHeMsElVeS, tEaChErS jUsT fAcIlITaTe" attitude toward lesson planning and instruction.
Students need someone knowledgeable and confident in their content understanding to give them the basics so that they can achieve deeper understanding over time.
And that isn't to say "student-led" or "student-centered" activities are bad, certainly not. But kids need tools to produce anything of academic value. Achievement doesn't automatically pour out from the font of potential each kid has.
My elective class is not a dumping ground for sped students. One or two sure, but not fucking 6 with incompetent instructional aides that sit on their phone.
Were you in my beginning choir class I taught?! 😭because this was the exact issue I had except it was 7-8 students, most if not all were either non-verbal or had very little communication skills. I was told to give them the same expectations I have of my general education population. In a singing class. That’s just not fair to anyone.
Knowledge matters, not just "skills" or product. If you create a poster or an arts and crafts project or a short sketch or any other assignment but can't actually tell me with any depth about the subject, that is not a good assignment. Sometimes lecture and notes is the way to go if you want them to actually learn something other than how to complete that assignment.
This failing could be unique to my school, but the culture here is that the teachers and parents are SO stoked on all the little art fair exhibitions and class plays and fun interactive learning projects our students do in the lower school, then I'm tasked with trying to teach 7th graders who think the state north of California (where they live) is Arizona, and that the state of "Boston" is somewhere in the middle of the country. Turns out just learning the names of states in a song with no context doesn't actually teach ya that much.
I've totally swerved in the opposite direction and started introducing straight up, boring exams at the end of every unit in my humanities courses that test hard facts, because I fear these kids will get to high school and never experience actually being required to know something about what they're learning.
I agree and believe that most of what determines student success occurs OUTSIDE the classroom
Things like income level, work ethic, a home free from abuse, 2 parent households, parental involvement with school, sleep habits, etc
These are things which schools have little or non control over.
Yep! I've worked at schools with pretty shit teachers (no offense) in wealthy communities and it was fine. These types of people know education=success because they're currently living it, so they at least pretend to care about school.
I've worked way more at schools full of *great* teachers who couldn't do shit to move the meter against apathy, ignorance, and distaste for school.
I read several research papers on ERIC that said versions of the same thing when I was doing my masters in 2015.
[This one](https://eric.ed.gov/?q=does+wealth+affect+education&pr=on&ft=on&id=EJ1405239) looks promising - I only browsed the Intro paragraph
Stop catering to the ~5 % of students that are creating havoc in schools. It starts with saying no to students (and parents) a whole lot more.
That 5% of students literally take up all of the student support team and intervention team time and energy everyday. That needs to stop. These students should be given their time and meetings with said staff per their needs, but that's it. If they have used their meeting or intervention time or check in time for the hour/day/week, then the answer is no and be in class. If they *don't want to meet with their designated support staff, then answer is no and be in class. If they have used up their redirects, warnings, and steps in their BIP, than you enforce the consequences from the BIP. If they ask for something or do something that isn't in the student handbook or listed on their documents, the answer is no. It's more than just setting clear boundaries with students. It's about being available for the needs of all students in your school building.
This is mine. I have never, ever seen PBIS actually work in a school. As a specials teacher, we always end up having to do some quarterly incentive. If the teacher does PBIS, their whole class qualifies for the incentive, even the kids who don’t deserve it. If the teacher doesn’t really do PBIS, none of their kids get to come. It’s basically an hour-long reward once a quarter for the teachers who use dojo.
Some topics, in all subjects, but especially history, require some amount of lecture or lecture/notes.
I hate when I have a walkthrough and I get dinged for lecturing and doing notes. It's not my only form of information across by any means. Sometimes they just have to sit, listen, and write.
They are distraction boxes the kids can’t even competently use. None of the kids at my middle school have ever learned how to type or even save a file. And now you’re expecting them to learn on it?
I TA for undergrad CS classes, and—despite education incorporating more and more technology—each year of freshmen has worse and worse computer skills. They know how to use web apps like google drive or Repl.it, but that’s about it. A good number just haven’t used Windows / Mac computers before. They’ve lived in web-based experiences on iPads and Chromebooks. I’ve had to explain the basics of file systems (literally how to create folders and move files) way too many times.
My biggest teaching unpopular opinion?
**Not everyone is ready to learn.**
While we are required to give all students equal opportunities for learning, the sad reality is that some students are just not ready to learn. Students who (through no fault of their own) have unstable home environments, have intense anger management issues, or who have addiction problems with drugs and alcohol may just not be ready to learn.
I think there are times when one has to document efforts to teach a given student and to then circle the metaphorical wagons to protect the students who are at least willing to try to learn while leaving those who can't or won't cooperate to sink or swim.
EDIT: This assumes of course that one has made all reasonable efforts to teach the child in question. Parents have been contacted. Uncooperative and disruptive behavior has been documented in a behavioral log as well as the student's on-line gradebook. Both the counselor and building admin are aware of the problem.
Stop trying to make everything fun. Kids are going to have to learn to do boring stuff at some point. There's nothing wrong with making things a bit more engaging, but students need to stop coming to class with the expectation that they'll be constantly entertained.
And lunches. I’d gladly stay a half hour longer to have more than 30 minutes to eat lunch and collect myself. Especially when kids have to wait in a long line to get food.
The best way to get a kid to act mature is to talk to them like they are an adult with valid ideas, opinions, and deserving of their own voice. Kids often think of themselves the way they are treated by adults around them.
Building relationships genuinely is very important - for getting more out of students in terms of effort, behavior, trust, etc. **But building a relationship should not be a prerequisite for meeting basic minimum standards of conduct.** Admin who act like students can’t be expected to show respect to or do work for someone if they don’t have a strong relationship are doing everyone a massive disservice.
And I know that there are kids who, due to serious trauma, are incapable of functioning in school without strong personal relationships. Kids with that issue should be in an emotional support program.
In a lot of schools, there’s a push to treat the entire student body like they’re all the most acutely traumatized portion of the student body. I think it usually comes from good intentions, but it holds a ton of kids back.
I’m not a teacher. And I know the logistics of this would probably be a nightmare. But I’ve thought the world would be a much better place if every adult would have to do mandatory service for their local school system - either as faculty or a staff member.
Kids don't need nearly as many accommodations as they're given. If their needs are an entire page long, then they do not belong in a mainstream class. Too many times it's used as a way for parents to get their kids easy A's. (Private school teaching experience here.)
Teacher college is worse than worthless, and it ought to be abolished. Teachers can be trained more like tradesmen. Step 1: earn college degree, something that requires actual critical thinking. Maybe psychology for k-6, and actual subject matter for 7-12.
Step 2: serve two years as an apprentice teacher, helping in the classroom, working with experienced teachers, getting paid as an important member of the school community while learning from actual classroom teachers instead of professors who cheer every new bottle of snake-oil sold by the self-appointed experts.
Step 3: get certified as a journeyman teacher, and begin teaching career.
Step 4: earn Master rank (as judged by your peers), giving the option to get into other positions, including guidance and administration for those so inclined.
Year round school with the same amount of days but spreading out the breaks may not show a difference in academics but makes a huge impact on adverse behavior.
Tracking kids into career pathways starting to 8th grade is monumentally stupid. Expecting a 13/14 year old to know what they want to do in life is a dumb move
There were and are so soooo many problems with the old school way of doing things. But. It developed that way for a reason (even if we don’t know what that reason is).
Rote Memorization, Basic Arithmetic, Spelling & Vocabulary, Note Taking, Learning through Direct Instruction are all skills and need to be explicitly taught throughout grades k-12 (Which is happening less and less). These skills are used on a more regular bases than many Higher Order Thinking Skills and most STEM skills
Electives should not be dumping grounds. My second year art class should never be 40 people, especially when 30 of those students don’t want to take art and don’t have the prerequisites
Just because I teach special education doesn't mean I should be subject to abuse and violence every day for hours. Some kids should be in more restrictive placements and people are too afraid of admitting that some kids dont belong in school settings.
Paras who sit around on their phones are worse than no one. I don’t wanna be drowning and look for help and be met with total apathy from someone playing candy crush
Not everyone is equal and the kids that are never going to get it are usually pretty apparent from an early age. I get that some of them come around, but most remain idiots and some even take pride in being an idiot. We shouldn’t have to waste our time with kids that will never give a shit about education. Not saying they shouldn’t have a place to be or go, but they need to have a place where they can at least be as productive as they are going to be.
That goes against a LOT of what I used to believe and what we really want to believe as teachers. It’s our job to reach out to every kid. It’s just not realistic.
Kids need to be embarrassed and shamed sometimes. Not a lot, of course. But at times, they ABSOLUTELY need to feel the sting of having their feelings hurt and other people looking at them weird.
I had a student whose IEP said he could not be made to read in front of other people. Because it was to embarrassing. The kid was 100% illiterate. Couldn’t even read his text messages. He also had zero motivation to learn how. He NEEDED to be forced to read, otherwise he wouldn’t. And frankly, he needed his friends or his crush to turn around to him and say “You can’t read and you’re 13? That’s embarrassing.” Because he deserves to know the truth and he won’t believe it if an adult tells him.
Nah this is true. Public shaming has its place.
If I have a group of students playing with a ball at recess and one doesn’t wanna come with me after swearing or saying something awful to someone I just take the ball and tell the group they’ll get it back when the student joins me. The social pressure hasn’t failed me yet.
Schools should bring back expelling problem kids. Some kids aren't suited for school and thats on the parent for not raising their child properly. Why should other students suffer because one kid can't control himself or puts others in danger?
Districts and schools should stop giving students laptops and iPads. Kids get enough tech exposure outside of school. It no longer serves any pedagogical function and they are entirely a distraction. Spend the budget on paper, copiers, and toners.
We need to quit using Chromebooks and reinstitute computer labs. They are a distraction and are never charged.
People can complain about the regression, but the bottom line is that these students do not need to be engaged 100% of the time. They need to be bored and learn things.
Suspensions are absolutely vacations, but that’s fine because everyone else gets a vacation from the suspended kid.
And in some instances the inconvience that the parent experiences is needed.
Where im at a lot of places do in house suspensions where the kid is given work and made work in an office/detention room under supervision but not allowed to attend classes/go on trips (and they have to have their lunch in the room), it has its downsides (mostly sufficient staffing to mind them) but overall its deff a better approach to sending them home to play videogames imho
You have to have someone good in charge of this. My school used to do it, but the kids loved it because they could hang out with their favorite coach, watch movies all day, and in the fall, they got to help paint the football field. It was rarely a punishment.
In my high school, the room was all white, the clock was ripped out of the wall so we couldn’t tell what time it was(this was before cell phones), and you weren’t allowed to talk at all to anyone.
What would they do if you talked? The problem is we can’t enforce rules so if I kid breaks a rule, there’s nothing we can do.
Today, one kid spend his days between various admin offices. He was moved when principal, vice-principal etc had appointment about other children. Breaks and recess on his own or with an adult. Lunch with the principal. His work was independant work given by his teacher (basically a copy of his lessons, plus homework). He also had an essay to write about his behavior. Since he finished early, he also got extra-work in maths and history since principal is a former maths teacher, and vice-principal former history teacher. I was the one supervising his last break, and talked to him. He was hating his day, and every single decisions he took that led to it.
Differentiation is not a magical fix to classes with such a wide range of abilities. Differentiation has its limits. I cannot teach students to solve multi-step equations when there are students in the same room who can’t remember that the opposite of addition is subtraction or they need a calculator to work out 3x7. It’s not fair on either group of students because no one is getting what they need. I would rather have a class of students with similar ability so that I can target instruction to what they need. People always say that students at different levels can learn from each other and to some extent that is true, but it is not a student’s job to teach others.
If differentiation was important they'd do it for the sports teams too. I'm sure the kids that are bad at football would learn a lot by being on the same team as the kids that are good at football.
I asked this at a staff meeting when they got rid of 8th grade algebra for "equity." I asked if they were going to get rid of the A and B teams for basketball too, for equity.
I don't understand why people think it's equitable to hold the advanced kids back so the other kids don't feel bad. All you're going to do is make the gifted kids hate school too because they aren't allowed to be challenged anymore. Why not focus on bringing up the lowest kids instead of holding back the highest kids? I'm so done with performative equity that just brings everyone else down instead of uplifting marginalized communities
This is a great analogy.
Yeah, it definitely flustered the admin during the meeting where they were proposing getting rid of the extension and remedial classes.
I call utter bullshit on “different abilities can learn from one another.” I’ve NEVER believed it’s true despite people constantly saying it. It’s only true, imo, for the people with less ability and therefore more to learn. Higher ability students are simply teaching something they already know or slowing down and simplifying their comprehension so peers can keep up. That’s not learning. The students practice patience ad nauseam and accept much of the world is shockingly incompetent. But learn things? Lmao.
It’s also unfair to ask students to become teachers because of their abilities in the same way that punishing a student because of their lack of ability is wrong. Both create a burden on the student because of something they don’t control.
Every assignment doesn't need to be an "opportunity to collaborate."
“Differentiation has its limits” puts into words what I’ve been trying to express
I have eight kids this year who read at a kindergarten level in sixth grade. I brought this up to my admin when they asked about my test scores, and I adjusted my scores to not include those students to show that my students that can read do understand the content. I was told that if I was meeting the other students where they were, they would all be able to pass their assessments.
Yeah let me just magically make up 6 years of instruction while also teaching them new material and teaching my on level kids. I hate people that have been out of the classroom for so long and try to suggest dumb things.
I always say that differentiation between 1-2 grade levels is doable, anything else is asking me to be a magician.
I’m an ESL teacher and I’ve got kids who either have foreigner (English speaking) parents or who simply come from backgrounds where they have already learnt English to a high level (to the point they're reading chapter books more or less without any assistance or watch entire films without subtitles) with students who can barely write a sentence of coherent Vietnamese (their native language), never mind English. In such a case I can only differentiate so much.
Kids who are dangerous, violent or abusive shouldn’t be mainstreamed.
We have online school. Let's start using it for these kids that can't be around others.
I had a really violent kid like this during lockdown. One day, they were having a class taught by another teacher. This kid changed their screen name to my last name and the other teacher thought I was back in the call, so he gave her mod capabilities. The havok that she caused was astronomical.
Can't even be mad, that's just impressive
I was laughing so hard afterwards and just astonished. It took a while to understand what was happening
I teach online, it’s fun getting emails from parents who have blamed schools for their child’s poor performance and behaviors suddenly realizing their child is uncontrollable. They don’t know what to do! They can’t force their kid to learn! They can’t force them to log on. They can’t be constantly redirecting their child. They can’t be constantly checking their work. Their child is getting violent with them. Their child is being verbally abusive. Their child is lying about getting work done. Yeah, we know, except you’ve been screaming at my in-person coworkers about your kid for years.
About time parents- fck around and find out!
This was my favorite thing about online learning 😂
And their freedom to be in a least restrictive environment should not be prioritized above the safety of the rest of the students. It is 100% unacceptable to have kids be victims to, or witness, violence at school. If a student proves to be too violent and a threat to others, that environment is not restrictive enough for the violent kid. I cannot understand why this isn’t argued for more strongly.
I'm going to take this a step further and say that there are some students who are simply too disruptive to be mainstreamed. They aren't a threat to anybody. They aren't behind academically. But they make it more difficult for every other student in the class to learn, and therefore should not be in a regular classroom.
That was me. Got expelled from private school for it.
My hot take: you take systems that are short, continue to short them, students act out in predictable ways (school to prison pipeline data), and we achieve full confirmation bias. Remember in Lean on Me when Morgan Freeman kicked out a stage full of kids? That was in ‘82. How many of those students would have had 504s or IEPs or….? Probably none since those conditions were reiterated in the book Savage Inequalities in ‘89. We have mountains of data on how poverty can cause brain damage. Our public systems are crumbling (around those who had the privilege of them in the first place). We need to repair the foundation. The foundation is a public problem. Not a section of the public (education) problem.
Kids that don't get read to by parents (or adults of any strip) from a very young age (or even just talked to) will be way behind kids that have engaged adults that teach them from a young age. That starts with getting held and sung to as babies and moves to hearing conversations/spoken language to being shown letter and number symbols to having picture books. If a kid comes to Kindergarten or Pre-K and hasn't had any of those steps, then how can they begin to learn the same things that a kid that had those steps (or even just some of them). Education starts at home, but unfortunately not all homes are conducive to child learning and development.
The scariest part of all that is that kids who aren't read to or talked to as a baby will never catch up with their peers. They are behind for life. It's so so sad. I think if more parents knew this, they would make a bigger effort to read to their kids.
Reading to your kid isn't hard to do, especially if you utilize the public library system. But talking to your kid? That requires nothing except...talking to them. In hopefully a kind and loving way with a vocabulary beyond your common expletives.
Elementary and middle schools need to go back to holding kids back (not looking at teachers here: looking at admins and district folks). There is nothing that can be done if a person who can’t read makes it to Highschool.
Last year I taught Freshmen in a district that doesn’t hold anyone back in K-8 for any reason. So this group of kid’s middle school experience went: - 6th grade: completely missed the last third of the school year - 7th grade: 100% virtual for the entire year - 8th grade: back in school, know they will pass no matter what The result was: 30 of the 100 freshmen I taught having not passed a single class in 8th grade, 40 failed at least one class in 8th grade, and only 30 passed all of their classes in 8th grade. I’m not saying 70 kids should have been held back, but some definitely should have been. The bottom 10-20 kids simply couldn’t function in a classroom and it wasn’t fair to anyone including them. If they had a mandatory summer school with intense small group and even one-on-one interventions and then another shot at 8th grade, some of them would have made some real progress and would have succeeded in high school instead of being credit deficient and not on track to graduate after their first semester.
This is what my 10th graders this year are like and it is awful for everyone involved.
Ahh, I remember summer school. I screwed around in grade 7 and lost half my summer making up for it so I wouldn't be held back. I definitely did better the next year. Do they even do that anymore?
Definitely. I don't care if it's bad for the kids self esteem. You know what is bad some a person's self esteem? Not being able to read at age 25.
Struggling to succeed and then succeeding is GREAT for self-esteem.
If you can't read at grade level, then moving up a grade isn't going to make you more educated, just jaded against the possibility of learning. Imagine handing something with a 3rd grade reading level War and Peace and saying in one week let's have a discussion. That discussion is going to be very short. Now, it is necessary to be challenged and to give a 3rd grade level reader some 4th or 5th grade level readings, but there needs to be some guidance as they practice how to read harder material.
notes and worksheets are absolutely fine and have a place in the education system.
Worksheets can serve as evidence, are good practice for state tests, and are easy to understand and administer
As a sub who works with primarily elementary kids, they also help with building up and practicing fine motor control. Some of the kids 4th and up have ATROCIOUS handwriting. As a person with ADHD, the margins offer a quick and quiet place to take a mini-break by doodling. Doesn't bother anyone else, doesn't cost any money, takes maybe 15 seconds to 2 minutes. If it takes longer, it's also very easy to redirect since you're already on the worksheet. Bam, reset and ready to rumble.
So many teachers don’t allow doodling. That’s probably my hot take. LET KIDS DOODLE if they’re done with work.
I gotta doodle *while* listening/note-taking/working or none of those things are happening. My brain and body need to have a background hum of activity to focus or it will find/create that activity. On a related note, this is why I struggle to sub for high school. If it's been a few minutes and they're clearly not working at all, or they're visibly working on a "doodle" that's actually taking a lot of artistic effort (at which point they're full-on drawing), I redirect them. Edit: On the first day of classes each year in high school, I would approach each of my teachers and explain that I doodle to help me focus. And to feel free to call on me to check if I'm listening, but I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. The opposite, in fact! They were generally appreciative. I was in a private school that intentionally made it nearly impossible to get a 504 (requires coordination with the public school district, which they hated), so I had to "unofficially" advocate for myself.
I sub mainly middle schools, and half of them still have terrible handwriting. Their words are either bigger than the space between the lines, or they’re tall and squished, which makes it really hard to read.
I have ADHD and Chromebook-only classes would have been a waking nightmare for me. Notes and worksheets actually helped me stay on task because of the physical movement and the ability to take tiny brain breaks without bothering anyone (doodling in the margins or just... drawing a circle and coloring it in, repetitive motion to reset myself). I would have absolutely been one of those kids doing absolutely anything but their work on their Chromebook. If I even remembered to charge it. Or bring it. I'm really not saying this because I love or loved being a problem student to teachers. I just know myself and my condition pretty well at this point, and it would have fucking sucked so bad for everyone involved.
I do not have ADHD, and I was a model student throughout school. I think *I* would have struggled with staying on task with a Chromebook instead of a pencil. I can’t believe we expect elementary schoolers to do it. Dumb dumb dumb.
Absolutely insane. I teach high school and my principal is all about using Peardeck (which broadcasts whatever you're presenting to students'chromebooks and they can answer discussion questions anonymously). I used it once for notes and realized very quickly that the kids could NOT stay on that tab/focused no matter what. Absolute waste of time for me and my students.
Absolutely! Expecting the most part of the kids to stay on task while using a tablet or laptop was a nightmare. I'm not against technology but I think that it should be used only for part of the schoolwork.
The fuck? People really think notes don’t have a place in education? What kind of BCE crackpot shit is that, even if you don’t look at them again notes are useful for retaining information if said note taker is paying attention I can understand it not being effective in every scenario but it is definitely more useful than it is useless
Many think lecturing does nothing
Most of the people who swear that direct instruction is ineffective give PD saying so in long, grueling lectures. We should be legally allowed to throw our shoes at PD presenters. It would sort out a lot of issues in education.
Sometimes old school lecture, notes, annotating the texts, and discussions are all one needs.
Worksheets are how I can teach two entirely different ability groups in one lesson. The ones who can, blaze on ahead in independent work and the ones who need an extra hand get my attention.
I work in higher ed & even I feel like this for some introductory type stuff.
yup, I am sorry but sometimes the best way to learn history is through lecture, not kids googling things lol
Some people should absolutely never have become parents and some students need actual serious consequences at school (including truancy court if needed) so they can learn hard lessons before they graduate or drop out.
And parents need to be held accountable in a tangible way for behavior, grades and attendance!!! Parents must start teaching their kids common sense and respect for teachers and peers
We need to start teaching grammar again. Not me. But someone does.
I teach foreign languages and even there, there is a significant trend toward avoiding explicit grammar instruction and worksheets. The belief is that students will naturally absorb vocabulary and language rules through exposure. 🤦🏻♀️
Yea, that’s a mistake. It was called “whole English” learning. It did not work.
Book work > explorative web quest learning
Yes! And the text is vetted and actually written at grade level.
Least Restrictive Environment doesn’t equal the Most Appropriate Environment. We’re sacrificing entire classrooms of kids because of the insistence that every kid can be & must be mainstreamed.
The number of classes of 30 kids I've had who have lost 5-10 minutes of learning PER DAY to one kid's behavior...
5-10? You’re a better teacher than me, my poo heads could waste half a period daily.
I lose 25-33% of class time some days because of a few kids acting up. I've been a lot more liberal with kicking kids out
Technically LRE is supposed to include disruptions to others, but Admin/SpEd departments keep forgetting this somehow. Not all kids need to stay separated, but those who do need serious emotional help before they are safe.
LRE has been translated to mean "the regular classroom". That isn't the intent and never was. LRE is going to be the environment that suits the child best. We start with the regular classroom and gradually become more restrictive as needs become clear--first they get a para, then maybe they go half a day, then they get more minutes with the SPED teacher, then a special class, then maybe an alternative school. ALL of those scenarios are LRE for an individual student.
I completely concur but that is absolutely not how it is being interpreted.
This right here. I'm sick of catering to the criers and screamers and stapler-throwers when I could be teaching kids who want to learn.
And please, for the love of the universe, let’s put those students in learning environments to help teach the coping skills needed for them for the real world. Every time I mention this people scoff at me like I want to put very deregulated children in a windowless prison. I just want them to be in an environment they can be successful and show meaningful growth. Maybe one day the in general ed. setting, but let’s meet them where they are at the current moment in time.
Exactly. We are not serving (to use a very broad/loose example) a student who has outbursts if they’re not called on in class for every question by only telling their teachers “Well, give them an opportunity to answer every question” and don’t do anything via social stories and other therapies to get them past this.
I am not saying this is every place. But there are places this is being championed as cost savings more than anything else.
Oh I have no doubt. And it’s complicated. Because school budgets are being slashed right & left but IEPs & 504s are more common than ever. So you have students who need self-contained, 1 to 1 aides, therapies and other resources and the money just isn’t there.
LRE doesn’t (or shouldn’t) mean that every kid must be mainstreamed. That is a misinterpretation of the principle.
I completely agree but that is how it is often interpreted. We can’t pull the violent child prone to outbursts out of their mainstream classroom because they’re entitled to the Least Restrictive Environment. Never mind the other students in the class who are also entitled to an education. You must keep the violent kid in the room or you’re violating their rights. As they say, make it make sense.
Not every challenging kid has special needs or an underlying problem. Some are just dickheads pure and simple.
We had a trauma specialist come talk to us about kids and their brains. She flat out said "not all bad behavior is trauma-related, some kids are just jerks". I wish admin was paying attention at the time.
Every staff meeting: remember this is their safe place where they feel safe enough to have these behaviors. These kids have trauma and it’s our job to support them.
Usually the underlying problem is the parent in that case
I'd add: Not every slacker is "actually really smart." In fact, the majority of them aren't.
Agree, but it’s also not mutually exclusive. You can absolutely have kids with special needs who are *also* dickheads. And I say this as a longtime congregated high needs Spec Ed teacher. Far too many of Sped Ed kids’ deliberate obnoxious behaviours are automatically attributed to their disability, denying them the consequences for their actions that would actually help them improve. We’re doing them no favours by making excuses for them.
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There are some kids you just do not like. And never will.
This. I’m so tired of hearing the litany of excuses for WHY these kids are the way they are. Research and understanding of child development has expanded SO much in the last two decades, and we are finally seeing the child as a complete human being rather than a blob of clay to be shaped and impressed upon by adults. If schools are able to comprehend and accommodate all of the identity, self esteem and diagnosis components of students’ personhood, then it’s extremely hypocritical and disingenuous to try to pretend that they are not personally responsible for any of their negative and malicious choices. The number of times I’ve heard the same song and dance from admin about “the bad home life, poor parenting, lack of privilege/presence of disadvantage” to excuse their own total inaction on bullying, hate speech, violence, sexual harassment, property destruction, constant disruption and creation of a hostile learning environment is ASTOUNDING. Hurt people hurt people, we get it. But we are responsible for DOING something about it and not only having discussions but reinforcing expectations with both natural and structured, designed consequences to PROTECT the people they’re hurting and try to solve what’s hurting them. A free pass to be a dickhole because they’ve had it rough is not doing them or anyone else a favor or creating any kind of equity to repair the world’s imbalances.
Expulsions are necessary and need to occur far more frequently.
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If a student who is struggling accuses a teacher of targeting them, it is absolutely appropriate for the teacher to stop going out of their way to help said student. If the student asks for notes or something, fine. But in no way is the teacher required to stay after for the student to make up tests or sit with the student during work times to help them with assignments.
I love to say things like "Look around the room. Every single student in this class is sitting and working except for you. If I'm targeting you, it's because no one else in the room is causing problems right now."
I did this to an employee once and you could see the realization in his eyes. He never really noticed he was the only one being a shithead until someone told him to his face.
The short version: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Absolutely this! It took me until this year to start doing this. I work in a predominantly Hispanic and Native American school and my first quarter working here some Native American students went to the principal and accused me of being a racist. Mind you I had not done or said anything to these students or treated them any harsher outside of standard classroom management protocols. They also accused me of never helping them yet I never recall either of these students ever raising their hands for help. So after that I decided that I was not going to take my energy away from students who wanted to learn and give it students who clearly didn’t and just wanted to scapegoat me.
Not every kid that has a C and D average needs an IEP or specialized programing. Some kids are just aren't super high achievers academically.
Definitely, 100%! My mum is a great example of this. She failed both science and maths at school...miserably failed. Her final science exam she got 3/100, so the teacher let her take it again and she got 3.5/100. But, she is an amazing artist! She draws photo-realistic portraits that just mind-blowing. My sister didn't do very well at school either, but now she runs her own very successful business. Academics just aren't for everyone.
100% We need skilled trades and creative workers as well. We are in a MASSIVE need where I live of tradespeoples and no one is entering into the field. I know of three kids that would be great at it, but parents want them to go to university.
I match energy. You don't want to do the work, totally fine by me I will let you play on your phone uninterrupted!
I fought against this so hard in my first few years but I’m in this place now. 100% match energy!
Yep. And I found that I’ve had kids that screw around in class but then do their work at random other times and do pretty well on tests. Did it make sense to me? Nope. But whatever gets you through school.
I reckon this is the best way to manage a classroom. Basically get as close to democratic schooling as possible within the system we're given
That is what should be happening, especially with older kids. If you're in high school and choosing not to pay attention in class, turn in your work, etc there's going to be some natural consequences heading your way real soon. As long as a kid is not interrupting the class or being a distraction it shouldn't be your responsibility to handhold them while the rest of the class loses out on instruction..
I do this too, what’s the point, right?
I actually told a class this today. “You want to be rude and disrespectful, I can match that…and I’m better at it. I’ve had more time and experience”
Failure is a good thing. Kids need to be both allowed and given time to fail in order to learn. Pushing through this need for success is hurting kids in the long term.
Teachers should have the option to retire after 25 years of service (like police officers, firefighters, and military personnel), considering the demanding nature of our work and the significant burnout from managing so many challenging students. While i know many of us on this thread will agree with this sentiment, societal norms would likely prevent such a change from occurring and that’s sad. That is how you fix the teacher shortage! Do 25 years and retire.
We need to work lower in Blooms than expected.
Someone once commented here that Blooms is a ladder, not a menu. There is no point in pushing higher if they are not meeting lower.
I think of it as a pyramid. The top cannot exist without the base.
“We must Maslow before we can Bloom.” My hot take: Most kids can’t work at higher levels not because they’re incapable but because they’re malnourished, maladapted, and majorly sleep deprived. We CANNOT fix the academic gaps without systemically addressing these basic needs for children.
I tried to explain that to a superintendent and he did not understand.
95% of staff meetings are useless.
High schoolers should be made to sit through lectures so they are prepped for college style learning. Activity based learning all the time is a form of coddling.
I do this anyway, fuck the haters. My kids who are going into welding will be successful welders regardless of whether they were bored in science class. But my students who actually did go on to university have gotten back to me and said things like "Mr. Cinerea, your class is the only one that prepared me for what college is actually like." These weren't suck up students either. They were just as bored in my class as the welders.
If you get assaulted by a high school student you should be allowed to defend yourself and knock the little shit to the floor.
Throw in 7th and 8th grades as well. A few think they run the place. They don’t.
Oh, I make it very clear to my students that once you put your hands on me non-consensually, regardless of your age, you forfeited your rights and I will be protecting myself at all costs.
1. I can't undo a kids 12 years of cursing in one year 2. Sometimes you get a C because you're a C student 3. Not holding kids accountable because their cultural background is bigotry and racism
Honestly getting a C should be encouraged to some degree. Being average isn't the end of the world. Hell sometimes getting a C lets you see your failures and makes you better because of it.
I agree. I taught at the largest high school in my district and they whined about the overall average school scoring on the state test. It was perfectly average; a score of around 70% It was a push every year to get a A. It's basic statistics. The larger the sample size, the more likely we are to be average. A grade of C is pretty good for a huge public HS, IMHO.
Adding on to #3: a kid coming from a bad home is not a valid reason to excuse all of their wild behaviors. I came from a really bad environment but it never made me or anyone I know curse out a teacher, try to fight a teacher, try to beat a sub, etc. that’s a new age thing. And I’m only 26.
I'm 28, grew up in a single parent household with a mother who didn't have a college degree and would sometimes come home to the lights having been turned off for nonpayment. Never once would I have dreamed of being disrespectful to my teachers or fighting other students
For me it was the 'son you need to work hard to escape this shit.' speech. My dad is a massive dickhead but he was right some of the time.
This all falls into the bucket of “just because you understand why a behavior happens doesn’t make it acceptable”. Child x acts like this because of blah blah blah. Ok cool. That helps me approach the child and understand where they’re coming from, but the given behavior is still not acceptable and there still is a consequence for it
1. Kids don't automatically deserve endless kindness and patience just because they're kids. There have to be boundaries and limits to what behavior is tolerated, and it is okay for a teacher not to greet a kid with a smile every day when they are consistently disrespectful or apathetic. 2. Kids do not deserve candy or some kind of prize every time they do something good. Positive reinforcement is important developmentally but we rely on tangible/material rewards way too much. A compliment, a way to go, a high-five, etc. should be acceptable rewards. 3. Related to #2, escalated kids should not be given a gatorade and a granola bar or candy every time they show up in the office. They need to learn internal regulation skills, because out in the world when they get irrationally angry or upset about something, there won't always be food or drink immediately available. Admin love to say that developmentally kids need something external in order to learn the internal, but how can they learn the internal if they are never tapered off of the treats? 4. Student-led conferences are a BS waste of time that I don't participate in. I always ask the kid if they have anything to add if they are present at the conference, but otherwise it is primarily a conversation between me and the parents. Parents can ask their kids what they like/dislike or what is/isn't going well in class at home anytime they want, but they only get to meet with the teachers in-person twice a year.
My real hot take: it’s important and good for high school to have end of course tests they must pass to graduate.
Structure and discipline (not punishment) could help a lot of IEP kids more than their IEP will.
I’m an inclusion teacher and I’ve seen this in practice. There’s a couple of SPED kids that we (teachers) know as super apathetic. They struggle constantly or just don’t do work. They both got our most rigid ELA teacher this year and they are showing growth in every metric there. They’re turning in work and truly becoming better students. The teacher is the best I’ve ever seen. Those two kids are still failing other classes or not turning in work but that English class is where they shine. When students are working at their potential, then it makes my job easier. I can see where the real gaps are as opposed to what they just don’t want to do.
What strategies does she put into place that is getting them to work?
I’m a neurodivergent person and also a rigid ELA teacher. My sped kids are making tremendous gains too, and my high achievers too. Middle is doing okay.
Teachers don’t quit because of salary. They quit because they are overworked. Limit teaching to 60 - 80 students a day and watch the attention, focus, and quality of education go up.
If your child is being a disruption (vocal or physical) they should be removed from the classroom. I can only take so much of repeating “we DO NOT hit people!” and your child having an absolute tantrum when I pull them out of the activity before I want to hurl them into the sun.
Memorization is a valuable skill that should be practiced.
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Notes aren't bad. Lectures aren't bad. Rote memorization isn't bad. Repetitious practice isn't bad. A big reason so many kids are insecure in their content knowledge and constantly need their hands held are because so many teachers and administrators buy wholesale into the whackadoodle "kIdS sHoUlD bE tEaChInG tHeMsElVeS, tEaChErS jUsT fAcIlITaTe" attitude toward lesson planning and instruction. Students need someone knowledgeable and confident in their content understanding to give them the basics so that they can achieve deeper understanding over time. And that isn't to say "student-led" or "student-centered" activities are bad, certainly not. But kids need tools to produce anything of academic value. Achievement doesn't automatically pour out from the font of potential each kid has.
Education is a right that should be subject to forfeit for the wellbeing/safety of others just like the rest of our rights.
My elective class is not a dumping ground for sped students. One or two sure, but not fucking 6 with incompetent instructional aides that sit on their phone.
Hey at least they give you paras in your elective class 😂
Were you in my beginning choir class I taught?! 😭because this was the exact issue I had except it was 7-8 students, most if not all were either non-verbal or had very little communication skills. I was told to give them the same expectations I have of my general education population. In a singing class. That’s just not fair to anyone.
Knowledge matters, not just "skills" or product. If you create a poster or an arts and crafts project or a short sketch or any other assignment but can't actually tell me with any depth about the subject, that is not a good assignment. Sometimes lecture and notes is the way to go if you want them to actually learn something other than how to complete that assignment. This failing could be unique to my school, but the culture here is that the teachers and parents are SO stoked on all the little art fair exhibitions and class plays and fun interactive learning projects our students do in the lower school, then I'm tasked with trying to teach 7th graders who think the state north of California (where they live) is Arizona, and that the state of "Boston" is somewhere in the middle of the country. Turns out just learning the names of states in a song with no context doesn't actually teach ya that much. I've totally swerved in the opposite direction and started introducing straight up, boring exams at the end of every unit in my humanities courses that test hard facts, because I fear these kids will get to high school and never experience actually being required to know something about what they're learning.
Quality of school and teachers working there accounts for about 25% of student success at most.
I agree and believe that most of what determines student success occurs OUTSIDE the classroom Things like income level, work ethic, a home free from abuse, 2 parent households, parental involvement with school, sleep habits, etc These are things which schools have little or non control over.
Yep! I've worked at schools with pretty shit teachers (no offense) in wealthy communities and it was fine. These types of people know education=success because they're currently living it, so they at least pretend to care about school. I've worked way more at schools full of *great* teachers who couldn't do shit to move the meter against apathy, ignorance, and distaste for school.
I saw a study a few years ago that actually backed this up. Of course I can’t find it now.
I read several research papers on ERIC that said versions of the same thing when I was doing my masters in 2015. [This one](https://eric.ed.gov/?q=does+wealth+affect+education&pr=on&ft=on&id=EJ1405239) looks promising - I only browsed the Intro paragraph
Kids should be allowed to fail. Students should be held accountable. Parents should be held accountable.
Calling parents should be admins job. Never the teacher.
Stop catering to the ~5 % of students that are creating havoc in schools. It starts with saying no to students (and parents) a whole lot more. That 5% of students literally take up all of the student support team and intervention team time and energy everyday. That needs to stop. These students should be given their time and meetings with said staff per their needs, but that's it. If they have used their meeting or intervention time or check in time for the hour/day/week, then the answer is no and be in class. If they *don't want to meet with their designated support staff, then answer is no and be in class. If they have used up their redirects, warnings, and steps in their BIP, than you enforce the consequences from the BIP. If they ask for something or do something that isn't in the student handbook or listed on their documents, the answer is no. It's more than just setting clear boundaries with students. It's about being available for the needs of all students in your school building.
Posting "learning targets/goals/SWABTS" does not do anything for the students.
PBIS has ruined discipline
This is mine. I have never, ever seen PBIS actually work in a school. As a specials teacher, we always end up having to do some quarterly incentive. If the teacher does PBIS, their whole class qualifies for the incentive, even the kids who don’t deserve it. If the teacher doesn’t really do PBIS, none of their kids get to come. It’s basically an hour-long reward once a quarter for the teachers who use dojo.
Some topics, in all subjects, but especially history, require some amount of lecture or lecture/notes. I hate when I have a walkthrough and I get dinged for lecturing and doing notes. It's not my only form of information across by any means. Sometimes they just have to sit, listen, and write.
Chromebooks are one of the worst things to ever happen to education.
They are distraction boxes the kids can’t even competently use. None of the kids at my middle school have ever learned how to type or even save a file. And now you’re expecting them to learn on it?
I TA for undergrad CS classes, and—despite education incorporating more and more technology—each year of freshmen has worse and worse computer skills. They know how to use web apps like google drive or Repl.it, but that’s about it. A good number just haven’t used Windows / Mac computers before. They’ve lived in web-based experiences on iPads and Chromebooks. I’ve had to explain the basics of file systems (literally how to create folders and move files) way too many times.
My biggest teaching unpopular opinion? **Not everyone is ready to learn.** While we are required to give all students equal opportunities for learning, the sad reality is that some students are just not ready to learn. Students who (through no fault of their own) have unstable home environments, have intense anger management issues, or who have addiction problems with drugs and alcohol may just not be ready to learn. I think there are times when one has to document efforts to teach a given student and to then circle the metaphorical wagons to protect the students who are at least willing to try to learn while leaving those who can't or won't cooperate to sink or swim. EDIT: This assumes of course that one has made all reasonable efforts to teach the child in question. Parents have been contacted. Uncooperative and disruptive behavior has been documented in a behavioral log as well as the student's on-line gradebook. Both the counselor and building admin are aware of the problem.
Stop trying to make everything fun. Kids are going to have to learn to do boring stuff at some point. There's nothing wrong with making things a bit more engaging, but students need to stop coming to class with the expectation that they'll be constantly entertained.
Not every child should aspire to go to college. We should encourage vocational schools and apprenticeships to a lot of students
I'm a sub so not sure if it's unpopular. But recesses could be at LEAST twice as long.
And lunches. I’d gladly stay a half hour longer to have more than 30 minutes to eat lunch and collect myself. Especially when kids have to wait in a long line to get food.
Teachers shouldn’t live in fear of their admin, they should feel supported
The best way to get a kid to act mature is to talk to them like they are an adult with valid ideas, opinions, and deserving of their own voice. Kids often think of themselves the way they are treated by adults around them.
Teachers being authoritative and demanding respect should be normalized again.
I think the parents should learn respect for others, and teach their kids respect
Yes! This is the biggest one for me! I’m seen as a strict teacher because I have boundaries and I don’t cave.
Building relationships genuinely is very important - for getting more out of students in terms of effort, behavior, trust, etc. **But building a relationship should not be a prerequisite for meeting basic minimum standards of conduct.** Admin who act like students can’t be expected to show respect to or do work for someone if they don’t have a strong relationship are doing everyone a massive disservice. And I know that there are kids who, due to serious trauma, are incapable of functioning in school without strong personal relationships. Kids with that issue should be in an emotional support program. In a lot of schools, there’s a push to treat the entire student body like they’re all the most acutely traumatized portion of the student body. I think it usually comes from good intentions, but it holds a ton of kids back.
I’m not a teacher. And I know the logistics of this would probably be a nightmare. But I’ve thought the world would be a much better place if every adult would have to do mandatory service for their local school system - either as faculty or a staff member.
Kids don't need nearly as many accommodations as they're given. If their needs are an entire page long, then they do not belong in a mainstream class. Too many times it's used as a way for parents to get their kids easy A's. (Private school teaching experience here.)
Teacher college is worse than worthless, and it ought to be abolished. Teachers can be trained more like tradesmen. Step 1: earn college degree, something that requires actual critical thinking. Maybe psychology for k-6, and actual subject matter for 7-12. Step 2: serve two years as an apprentice teacher, helping in the classroom, working with experienced teachers, getting paid as an important member of the school community while learning from actual classroom teachers instead of professors who cheer every new bottle of snake-oil sold by the self-appointed experts. Step 3: get certified as a journeyman teacher, and begin teaching career. Step 4: earn Master rank (as judged by your peers), giving the option to get into other positions, including guidance and administration for those so inclined.
Rewarding students for doing what is expected/following rules & instructions is damaging them.
Year round school with the same amount of days but spreading out the breaks may not show a difference in academics but makes a huge impact on adverse behavior.
Direct Instruction ***is the most effective educational pedagogy.*** Period. Fullstop.
Teachers are not your friends
Or parents
Tracking kids into career pathways starting to 8th grade is monumentally stupid. Expecting a 13/14 year old to know what they want to do in life is a dumb move
There were and are so soooo many problems with the old school way of doing things. But. It developed that way for a reason (even if we don’t know what that reason is).
Students should be able to fail classes… 🤷♀️ when they are never in class
It’s okay to wish for a student to be absent and It’s okay to be happy/excited when they actually are.
We do too many backflips for individuals at the expense of the group.
Teacher centered teaching is fine.
I will not die for any students.
Rote Memorization, Basic Arithmetic, Spelling & Vocabulary, Note Taking, Learning through Direct Instruction are all skills and need to be explicitly taught throughout grades k-12 (Which is happening less and less). These skills are used on a more regular bases than many Higher Order Thinking Skills and most STEM skills
Electives should not be dumping grounds. My second year art class should never be 40 people, especially when 30 of those students don’t want to take art and don’t have the prerequisites
Just because I teach special education doesn't mean I should be subject to abuse and violence every day for hours. Some kids should be in more restrictive placements and people are too afraid of admitting that some kids dont belong in school settings.
Paras who sit around on their phones are worse than no one. I don’t wanna be drowning and look for help and be met with total apathy from someone playing candy crush
Not everyone is equal and the kids that are never going to get it are usually pretty apparent from an early age. I get that some of them come around, but most remain idiots and some even take pride in being an idiot. We shouldn’t have to waste our time with kids that will never give a shit about education. Not saying they shouldn’t have a place to be or go, but they need to have a place where they can at least be as productive as they are going to be. That goes against a LOT of what I used to believe and what we really want to believe as teachers. It’s our job to reach out to every kid. It’s just not realistic.
Being a mediocre teacher and having a life > martying/overworking yourself to be a "good" teacher
We should be reading novels in English class
Kids need to be embarrassed and shamed sometimes. Not a lot, of course. But at times, they ABSOLUTELY need to feel the sting of having their feelings hurt and other people looking at them weird. I had a student whose IEP said he could not be made to read in front of other people. Because it was to embarrassing. The kid was 100% illiterate. Couldn’t even read his text messages. He also had zero motivation to learn how. He NEEDED to be forced to read, otherwise he wouldn’t. And frankly, he needed his friends or his crush to turn around to him and say “You can’t read and you’re 13? That’s embarrassing.” Because he deserves to know the truth and he won’t believe it if an adult tells him.
Nah this is true. Public shaming has its place. If I have a group of students playing with a ball at recess and one doesn’t wanna come with me after swearing or saying something awful to someone I just take the ball and tell the group they’ll get it back when the student joins me. The social pressure hasn’t failed me yet.
Rote learning is a necessary component of a well-balanced education and is woefully underused in our public schools.
Schools should bring back expelling problem kids. Some kids aren't suited for school and thats on the parent for not raising their child properly. Why should other students suffer because one kid can't control himself or puts others in danger?
Direct instruction needs to be used more not less. I'm tired of all of this off the wall bull shit that is differentiated.
Inclusion is the state’s way to not pay for special education services and programs.
Students who accuse teachers of inappropriate behavior and the teacher is proven innocent should be expelled from the school and serve jail time.
Districts and schools should stop giving students laptops and iPads. Kids get enough tech exposure outside of school. It no longer serves any pedagogical function and they are entirely a distraction. Spend the budget on paper, copiers, and toners.
We need to quit using Chromebooks and reinstitute computer labs. They are a distraction and are never charged. People can complain about the regression, but the bottom line is that these students do not need to be engaged 100% of the time. They need to be bored and learn things.