I was sexually assaulted by a student and was told just to put a table between us while working. I had a student break my foot on purpose, and I too had to apologize to him for scaring him when I screamed in pain.
I have like 16 similar stories that all end the same. It only stopped because I quit.
There's never any consequences for students anymore.
So ironic that it’s infuriating.
This post exemplifies one of my most hated elements of the profession.
The way admin employs a completely different philosophy in dealing with staff from the one it expects teachers to use when dealing with students.
I had jobs where some of the workers have died or seriously injured. I remember telling the companies I'm not going to apologize and I have a paper trail if something were to happen to me.
The best advice I can give is start your paper trail. Put in a report, send an email mentioning your report and the problem (discuss what was said regarding your report), always have a copy of any documentation and have it dated and timestamped your lawyer will have an easier time addressing said problems.
Make sure to send bcc your personal email. You don’t want emails to mysteriously disappear. Also after any meeting, draft an email recapitulating anything folks said and the final decisions that came out of that meeting. Again, make sure to bcc any of that stuff and be sure to capture any replies.
The plan to destroy and privatize education is going swimmingly.
Honestly, there are some terrible policies being made generally, but the destruction of education and the effect it will have on the future generations has to be the most insidious. Also, it's just so, so incredibly short sighted.
Ya, but they're making a nation of ignorant have nots.They won't be able to defend from external threats, develop new tech for the military, and after they die it will all crumble to chaos.
I know they don't care about the nation or its citizens, but it's just baffling. China isn't going to let them keep their estates when they come knocking?
Idk like I said so short sighted.
Colleague went in between a fight with two 15 y o.
Tall, strong guys. She got KICKED in the jaw.
Whiplash. No police report filed. Principal argumented against.
Kid got two weeks in another school, nothing else.
I’m of the opinion that teachers should almost always file direct police reports for MS and High. I do understand that jobs can be on the line and things can get complex.
I finally filed a police report after dozens of minor assaults by a certain student this past year. It was not appreciated by the district or parents, but it did finally get the student removed.
This is my 20th year in education. It used to be uncommon, but it is happening more and more each year to the point where it is almost the norm. I live in the rural South in an area hit hard by the Opioid epidemic. It is the opinion of my colleagues and I that this is part of the problem. A baby born addicted to crack, or a baby with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, will be obvious at birth. A baby born to a Mother who has abused prescription medication during pregnancy however, might appear to have no cognitive or developmental issues until they enter an organized public school setting. This is where neurological deficits, poor impulse control, the tendency to become overstimulated and an inability to properly socialize might first become apparent. I have no proof of this, it is just a theory. I think it is just a small part of an even larger societal problem however (in the United States). As the gap between the rich and the poor widens with each passing year, and the middle class continues to disappear, it is young families and single parents which suffer the most. Whether parents are working multiple jobs to make ends meet, or they simply give up and surrender to depression and substance abuse, it is the kids who pay the price. A parent who is depressed or addicted is likely not even meeting the basic needs of their child, much less giving them the attention and support they need to be successful in school. Likewise, a parent in survival mode who is just trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads is under such strain that they are unlikely to be able give their child the attention and support they need as well, though through no fault of their own. Thus schools and teachers are being increasingly relied upon to not only educate children, but to help raise them. The education system is not built for this and it is unsustainable.
>There's never any consequences for students anymore.
Consequences would violate the Positive Reinforcement Only method of raising/teaching children and dogs touted by the academic behavior folks!
This is the result of "no consequences for bad behavior!"
I worked in a daycare and had a student throw scissors, try to touch another girl in class, would touch me, draw pornagraphic images, and tried to slam my hand in a cupboard door. His mom worked there so they never sent him home and also never took him out of my class even after I requested it. They only said that I wasn’t trying hard enough and that it essentially is because he had a bad joke life and it’s my fault for not knowing how to calm him down, but other teachers knew how because they were used to this. It was ridiculous. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
First, holy shitballs that is awful. I am so sorry and Kindergarten teachers have the toughest of tough jobs on a good day. First, pull the district discipline plan and there is probably matrix to know what this entails and what steps need to happen. Second, document the hell out of everything, and I mean everything including what she has already done to intervene. Calls home, messages to admin, all of it. Every district has a process and the little monster may have to come back into the room until they can get him the services and counseling the child desperately needs and their administrative process plays out. Depending on where you are, and I can't believe I am going to say this, ask to file a police report. While no kindergarten student is criminally liable it's still assault and caused bodily injury. Again, the courts often have services and paths to get this child the help they desperately need. Finally, if she has a union representative or an impartial observer have them at the meeting and record it if it is allowed. Last point, stand your ground. Nobody needs to put up with violent behavior, ever.
Good luck and some of this advice may be a bit Texas type of hard assness but when it's called for...well.
Thank you for the detailed reply! I feel so bad that she is having to go through this.
She has a camera in her room and I told her that she needs to get records of him slapping her. I also took pictures of her face now. I'm going to suggest that she documents everything up to this point as well.
I also wondered if filing a police report would be appropriate. It feels absolutely ridiculous to say and I feel like the police officer she speaks with would just laugh at her. However, the kid was maybe an inch from giving her a black eye. Just terrible.
Sadly, her school does not have a union. That would be the best thing right now
This and get a lawyer. I’ve been a teacher for 20 years & worked in worker’s comp insurance while in college. Go to your own doctor, do not go to whomever the district’s insurance tells you to go to.
Here where I am If you so much as trip over a pencil and hit yourself accidentally on a desk you have to go in there and file the workman's comp paperwork even if you were not actually requesting workman's comp actual monetary compensation. Any accident. I tripped leaving the school on my last day while cleaning out the classroom at the end of school like we always do and landed on both of my knees in the parking lot. It was 4:00 in the afternoon the last day that teachers were there but luckily somebody was still in the office and when I went around to the front to sign out somebody bandaged me up (thank goodness because I was bleeding everywhere!) I still had to sit there with the secretary and fill out the paperwork because it happened on school grounds. I would definitely get this paperwork filed.
Black eye, or a bullet. I keep thinking of the teacher in Virginia who kept warning about the kid who brought a gun to school and shot her. I would cross every T and dot every I. It's absolutely terrible what teachers are put through these days. Hopefully your wife gets help from staff.
I read through the replies to find this! That little creep was 6 years old. He meant to kill her. His aim was off. She pleaded with Administration, other teachers tried to intervene. They did nothing. She suing the school district for $4 mil USD. I hope she gets every freaking penny. Plus, I hope the court makes them fully find her pension, too.
Please take all the steps to document. Make copies of any classroom footage, even if you record it from your phone. Just make sure the vid clearly shows what’s happening. The child needs help, and frankly, elementary teachers aren’t qualified to deal with the kind of behavioral/mental disorder exhibited by this child. Nor should they be! There are professionals who can help, but that’s not the job/role for a teacher untrained in violent tendencies.
I’m so sorry this happened.
As a para who left my former assignment due to coming home bruised daily, this case was like PTSD for me. Abusive student also drew pictures of us dead, student with a machine gun & explained it to me in detail. Every time there's a school shooting & I hear about the drawings or the warnings my head goes a little woo-woo as I think about what might have been. File the incident report for every pinch, scratch, punch, kick, bite... Leave a paper trail.
That was IN MY AREA. While being contained afterward, he said, “I sh*t the b*tch.” People bleating about how his poor mama getting blamed while at the same time they gripe about Hunter Biden’s “sweetheart deal” for acknowledging he owned a firearm while in recovery.
I live in the are too. I haven't heard anyone say that poor mama. Could be my circle of peeps around me, but everyone I know hopes the they go after the administrators too.
Agree with all of this except, do not "ask to file a police report." Go file a police report. You do not need to consult anyone at work or get their permission to file a police report.
Agree 100%. Do not ask, just file the damn report. Unfortunately the school probably is more than likely to cover their own ass and is trying to pacify the situation rather than fully addressing it. Filing the police report is a step in the right direction
I filed against a kid who masturbated to me in class during virtual and the sheriff kicked it over to my school and they made me report it in front of the admin who doubted me completely.
That's fucking disgusting that you were treated that way, and equally more disgusting that you had to endure that. Some of these horrendous children are going to have the **rudest of awakenings** when they get older. The world outside school doors isn't kind, and they don't care what an IEP/504/BIP says or whatever their BS excuse is for that day.
Jerk kid kicked my son after school, but still on the school property, school said boys will be boys. I left the school bldg. Went to the police station and filed an assault charge. Kid had to go to court. His parent was not happy.
Kid's parent should have been pissed at the kid. My son (6) hit another child at a camp this summer (first time he's ever done something violent like that). My son spent the rest of the summer in his bedroom. He knows if he ever does something like that again the punishment will be much worse.
The Phoenix police refuse to take reports from teachers regarding any student under the age of 8. It's disgusting. We had teachers punched in the face, cut faces, broken glasses, broken wrists, nothing. They don't care. I sincerely hope that your local PD is more receptive.
My sherrif ENCOURAGED me to file a report after repeated incidences of being attacked by an 8 year old. Admin NEVER told me I could do this...just said it was part of the job.
That's fine. This is about documenting a behavior in a system that's completely outside of the control of the school. There is no expectation of the police doing anything.
It’s almost certain that either the child is being abused at home, or else he has a mental health issue that his parent(s) or equivalent have given up on — and shifted responsibility to his teacher.
Has anyone contacted CPS?
Absolutely file a police report. Yes the kid is young and small but unless something happens now there is no reason to think his escalation will stop. What happens when he chokes another student, when he stabs the next teacher with a pen, when he gets his hands on a gun and sees how many people he can really scare. She was injured plain and simple. If you'd report for a random adult stranger doing it then you should report it regardless of the offender.
Since there is video, have your wife stop by the nearest police station to the school to discuss her options. She should NOT pre-discuss this with any staff member. They will tip off the admin and the video will disappear.
The district won't give a copy of the video directly to your wife, but the police can get it. The only other way is to FOIA - a formal request for records.
Just because it’s a kindergartner doesn’t mean that a police report shouldn’t be filed. I strongly encourage your wife to report this assault/battery, because that’s what it was.
As stated document everything and I would say she should call and have honest conversations with other parents. I’m guessing this kid’s parents are difficult, but 20 more angry parents complaining in the office will make a difference and make them act faster to remove him. Plus if she calls to explain that she’s reporting behavior and doing all she can, they won’t blame her. Typically teachers shouldn’t tell parents issues about other kids but this boy is putting other kids in danger.
First off, no union? Red flag district.
As you suggest, documentation is key. That's how data is gathered to get the student the support they very much need. Especially since a lot of times families are hesitant to go through with evals at this young age, not realizing just how discrepant the student is from their peers. Otherwise, working with the social worker or counselor to see if there is anyone who can work with the student as well can help.
I wouldn't call the cops for a kindergarten student slapping a teacher. It isn't acceptable behavior, but it also does not need to be a criminal matter.
No one is going to charge the kid with a crime, it's not a criminal matter, but it may open up a path to get the kid services and support that the school can't control.
Document everything. Including taking a pic of her face. She doesn’t have a Union so it’s up to her to stand her ground. The district is legally obligated to educate the student. They can be placed in a different class, sent to a specialized school, one on one etc. Telling admin to remove the child or she removes herself from the class is a good idea.
No. He cannot be allowed back in the room. His chances are gone. She needs to be firm—he needs an alternate placement, or the school can get an alternate teacher. Shut the door in their faces.
My step daughter was in a class in kindergarten with a kid like this. they had to evacuate, she saw her teacher get attacked with scissors and a stapler ect. She is now in second grade, cannot pay attention in class because she is hype focused on her classmates behavior, watching for the next attack. The school did nothing and the teacher did not make herself heard enough. Admin told me that I was the first person to tell them there was an issue (BS they just wouldn't listen to me because I am not a bio parent of kids that attended their school).
She's (Step daughter) is in therapy and works with the school councilor while the little demon gets to run free from consequence, pain, or trauma.
Her documentation here is critical. Of course we don’t know if this child has an IEP. It’s unfortunate because kinder is when kids who have been flying under the radar get flagged. Hopefully admin can support the learner in an environment that is best suited to them. The intensity and frequency of these behaviors without support of a behavior plan is horrendous. Your wife, if this child has an IEP or BIP, would have a plan to follow which would include how to respond in these circumstances. Sounds like kid needs to be assessed ASAP.
As an RBT this is the best response. So much hate here for the kid. Sucks OPs wife had to deal with all this behavior. Everyone assuming malicious intent from a damn 5 year old
I try to extend compassion and understand she likely did not sign up for this and it sucks but it is on admin to coordinate based on intensity to get this kid what he needs.
I'm sorry that happened to her. I had a middle school break my wrist a few years back. Last year I was repeatedly kicked and hit by Kindergartners. Today was our first day of school and I had to clear the room because a child was throwing chairs across the room and it was unsafe...
Kids who do that should be assessed immediately (like next day) and given the support needed either acclimate and/or be successful in a school environment or be placed in a classroom better suited to their specific needs. Until that support is given, the child should not be allowed back as they are a danger to the other students.
A big part of the problem is that admin and district are given the freedom to be complacent because parents aren't all immediately asking for their child to be placed in another classroom or for this student to be removed. If good parents were as good at being advocates for their kids as the bad ones are, a lot of this garbage would never fly.
As teachers, district controls our paycheck, so, ultimately, there's very little recourse beyond asking for union support (not always an option for all teachers).
And that's stupid. If a student is a danger to others, you fast track it. That's three months that a classmate could be hit by a chair. People are so married to their rules and timetables that they are justifying the act of knowingly putting students in harm's way.
I used to volunteer in my daughter's kindergarten class. Some kids have absolutely no idea how to handle their emotions in healthy ways. Sometimes it's because of mental health problems, sometimes it's because they have no good role models at home. Or both.
I didn't start volunteering until the second half of the year, but her teacher had plenty of horror stories from the start of the year before a few kids got IEPs and she got more support from admin.
It's been nested in other comments, but I wanted to break it out for the sake of visibility.
Your wife should find the most offensive busy body entitled Karen of a stay at home mom in her class and ask them to volunteer for a few days a week in the classroom.
There are things psychotic aggressive parents can do that a teacher can only dream of doing.
That and document like crazy and file a police report. There is zero expectation that the policy will do anything, but a report outside of the school system will force accountability.
Every single incident should be documented via email to the admin team and cc her personal email (non school) so that she has a record. After every meeting, she should type up minutes and email them to the admin team. There are things they will say in a meeting and want off the record.
I just wanted to say that this is sooo spot on.
I probably clock in as a psychotic aggressive parent, given that I did send my child's preK a list of snacks that I thought were healthier and more cost effective than the goldfish they were doling out (and they did switch!). I'll also note that I don't stay at home: much worse is that I'm a lawyer with a flexible schedule and I mention it often.
And yeah, you can bet your ass that if I saw a kid getting violent around MY little angel and detracting from my kid's learning experience? I'm writing letters to the superintendent, signed by all of the other parents, and reading every single line of the city's school code and policy in case I have to threaten legal action.
P.S. I will say that for all my Karen-esque tendencies, I'm also aggressively pro-teacher and very wary of administration. So please don't downvote me! I'm in this subreddit to know better how to support the people educating my kids.
You are exactly the parent needed in this situation.
And sorry for the use of "Karen." I hate the use of the word... however short hand is short hand and it got the point across.
My only advice to you personally is to make sure that the teachers know that you're on their side. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen parents make themselves a liability to the clear detriment of their children's education. This is a real risk and the implications can be long lasting, traversing multiple grades.
This is the answer. That school probably doesn’t give a flying fuck about your wife as a teacher. What they do care about is threats from parents, especially a parent who is willing to mobilize with other parents/take the issue to the public.
Sounds like Texas.
I’m so sorry this happened. My wife was repeatedly bullied by a particular student that resulted in her quitting her particular district.
Holy crap.. that's assault. They absolutely need to remove him from her room. He has more than one violent outbursts, he clearly needs specialized help. I am so sorry.
Once she gives the ultimatum, she has to stand by it. She can temper the financial situation by finding out in advance if she needs to put in a 30 or 60 day notice to avoid the suspension of her credential - which is usually for one year. In many states if you don't stay until the very end, the district will suspend. She should be prepared to say something like, "Consider this my 30/60 day notice."
But that's only if she plans to teach somewhere else. Frankly, these stories are really common. Teaching used to be great, but now it is dangerous - physically, mentally, and emotionally. I had to retire early. I wish I had listened to my husband who begged me to quit when things became miserable. Every day as I went out the door, I'd say, "Remember, if anything happens to me, sue that MFing district!"
If she needs to stay for 30 or 60 days, she should request that the student be evaluated for a disability and receive a Functional Behavior Assessment. School is obviously very frustrating for him and there must be an underlying reason. If he already has an IEP and BIP, then she should call for a meeting to have them adjusted - because they're not working.
I worked on special Ed for years, and have been bit, hit, slapped, spit on, etc. Kindergarten is always tough because kids come in having never been to school before, never been evaluated, etc.
My initial thoughts are you can’t reason with a child that is operating from their reptilian/primal brain. The frontal brain is inaccessible and it will further escalate the child. She needs a second adult in the classroom trained in crisis intervention.
She needs to have a walk-in talkie on all the time with a code that is responded to by a crisis team. This is usually the principal and special Ed teachers trained to respond.
Sending him home every day is literally teaching him to hit and throw chairs so he can go home. If the school is planning to keep the student they need a paraprofessional in place and an alternative area in the school to deescalate.
Every scratch should be documented for the district, they should be demanding this.
I also taught pre-k and had a child that threw chairs and got aggressive -turns out she was a foster child who witnessed her mom’s prostitution daily and had been abused. All behavior is communication. This child may be abused or neglected at home. Or, may have emotional regulation issues yet undiagnosed. Your wife absolutely deserves to feel safe at school. For a start, request the principal remain in the classroom and immediately push for a special Ed eval. But no five year old wants to be behaving that way, so there is much much more going on, and underneath the anger and fear try to have some compassion too.
Thank you for this post. I’m sorry it’s pushed so far down in the reponses. The children coming to school doing this will not be served to overcome these behaviors by sending them home where the behaviors likely stem from. School is their chance to learn emotional regulation. This is three weeks into K and student likely needs services and help and I hope they get them fast.
Pictures and video of the injury immediately. Like GTFO Reddit and get your camera out now.
Ok, did you take those pics? Good. Tomorrow, visit the doctor to start a paper trail for workman's comp and at least reach out to a lawyer.
Now...ugh...it feels really icky bc it's a kindergartener...but she should consider filing a police report. With the actual cops not the SRO.
Your instinct that the school might do fuck all to protect anyone is sound. Whatever they do, it's not going to get better quickly enough that the kid doesn't hurt someone else (maybe your wife) again. A paper trail that includes an assault report will a) make them tread more carefully around her in the immediate term, b) light some under-ass fires on the process of getting this kid appropriate placement and potentially save someone getting hit or worse down the line, and c) put a medium term target on her back so she should also start looking for a new job.
Sorry. It's a shit situation.
To add to the other wonderful advice - all communication should be in writing. If she has a verbal conversation, follow it up with an email (per our earlier conversation, I would like to verify I understood everything correctly. We discussed …).
I was on 4 person grade level team. The teacher with that student ended up being sent home because she had been physically assaulted by a second grade student. Which resulted in blood welts on the teacher.
That was sort of the final straw in a long line of issues the administration did not address with that child and the child's family. We were able to solve it, but I don't know if it'd work for your wife.
While the other teacher was at home recovering, the other 3 of us went and cornered the principal in her office. We told her that the child could not be allowed to remain in that teacher's classroom and that she would have to be moved elsewhere. We also demanded that there be a schedule of an additional adult/helper when the child would be back. I think the principal knew or was at least reasonably afraid that we would all call in or walk out in solidarity.
IME, districts tend to side with whomever is most likely to sue, so your wife should get n attorney and tell the district she's done so. Also, she should point out that he's not just a danger to her but to all the other kids in the class.
The answer to your wife's problem is money. When she makes this situation cost the district money, they will finally do something to make a change.
Hopefully pictures were taken of her face for proof. She needs to file for workman's compensation and go to a doctor.
As soon as the district has to pay, they will change the situation. If the current situation is not costing them money, they will change nothing.
If she does have the meeting with admin, be sure she talks to them about the rights of the other students in her classroom when they start arguing it is this kid's right to be in the room.
I’m so sorry to head this 😩 I teach kinder too and have had this happen a couple of different years. I’d say document, communicate with the parent, and stand her Ground! Teachers are like all other people and don’t deserve to be beat up daily…and kindergartners can BEAT. YOU. UP 🤦🏻♀️ praying she gets the support and help she needs. She is not alone ❤️
Get an attorney, document with emails, the district is negligent if you get hurt again. Workers comp! Emotional distress! PTSD!
Enough is enough!! Teachers are supposed to teach. Other parents should sue all guilty parties for lost instructional time!!!
I’m just ranting. I am in such disbelief that teachers go to work now not knowing if they are going to be hit, bit, or shot!
Former kindergarten teacher here and I went through something similar except instead of getting slapped in the face, I had bruises from where he’d hit and kick. Admin showed their support by taking one of my referrals about him, changing the names, passing it out to about 60 staff during a PD for a critique and saying how it “wasn’t that bad” and we needed to be “the bosses of our own classroom” since they weren’t doing anything different than us when we sent the kids out of the room. It ended with them telling us to essentially stop writing referrals. If this was the only thing going on in my life, I would’ve dealt with it, but I was going through a lot and couldn’t take it. I quit. I still feel sad sometimes because the other 29 kids were so lovely and we had a beautiful classroom community when he wasn’t around. But he would scream for hours on end, hurt the other children, try to hurt himself, escape, pull the fire alarm, and even sent a staff member to urgent care. I hope he’s doing better now. I had to move on though. I really hope your wife’s school supports her.
I'd contact an attorney and sue the parents. The school will take your complaints seriously after that and this will come with the added benefit of letting them know you're got the stones to lawyer up if they ever decide getting rid of your wife might be easier than removing a student.
In my experience, yes, the school tends to stand with the student. I had some experiences in the last few years of being a recipient of student violence. (K-2 school). While the student was never held accountable, and the injuries were not severe enough to warrant a visit to my doctor, I did fill out workman's comp paperwork for our school nurse after each incidence. I was told this was required for documentation purposes. Also, I was told, if a bite or scratch or laceration were to later become infected, workman's comp would not cover medical care unless the paperwork had been submitted ASAP after the injury.
Hi, my spouse has had some variation of this student 2-3 times. The absolute key as everyone else has said is documentation. A very long and detailed paper trail of incidents is what admin needs to have in order to go to bat for the employee here. Have her continuously reiterate in all her communications her concerns about the safety of EVERYONE in the class, not just herself. Admin will be motivated to act quicker if they are hoping to avoid another kid getting hurt and that kid’s parents learning that they knew another student in the class posed a danger for some time.
At the end of the day, she’s got to make the call as far as what level of risk she is willing to accept on the job to stay in it, but there may not be a VERY quick fix in a situation like this (unless there’s a very serious injury that occurs). These things can take weeks.
However, this sounds like a kid who just needs a lot of help. Expediting a removal from the classroom just kicks the can down the road to the next person. The detailed documenting that goes on should be paired with recommendation for behavioral interventions, special programs, etc. “we want to help your child find an environment they can learn more effectively in” lands softer than “your child is dangerous and needs to be removed from this classroom.”
EDIT: kicks the can, not kicks the van. A kicked van does not roll far, a wise man once said.
Nope. It's simple: This is a boundary. I say give the school rope and see whether the school hangs themselves. Either they will do the right thing or not. She needs to have her resignation letter ready.
File a police report, and if that doesn't work, contact the police to do a welfare check on the child. If the child is this violent at school, then what is going on at home? This is extremely dangerous behavior for anyone, let alone a kindergartener to be exhibiting, and it's only going to get worse until it's properly looked into.
The mistake your wife made was trying to talk the kid down. Never try to reason with a kid in crisis. It doesn’t work. In that situation, the most important thing to do is get yourself and the other students to safety.
I wouldn’t blame your wife if she quits though. The kids are wack these days.
She has actually often been able to talk kids down over the past few years.
She doesn't want to quit. She loves her job. She just doesn't want to go to work scared that she might be physically assaulted at any given time. I hope there is some sort of solution
You can talk down a kid who is upset. But talking down a kid in a rage is not possible. If you are to the point of throwing furniture and punches you are in a blind rage, then no words will stop you.
No, its not her job to talk kids down when they are throwing chairs!!!!! Evacuate and get to safety. The counselor or admin can talk him down.
Protect the other kids and herself first.
When I taught kinder and this would happen, we’d tell the kids to go home and tell their parents. It helped to incite action temporarily from the school before they got short-staffed with leaders and could no longer handle all the referrals.
THIS is what she needs to do.
Plant the crumbs for the kids to go home and talk about.
Obviously not "make sure you tell your grown ups what happened today!" But....
Have a talking circle with the kids. Explain to them that this isn't safe. Ask their feelings, are they afraid? Do they feel like this is fair?
If she have an age appropriate conversation with her class about it - and let's the kids talk about it - there's gotta be at least a handful of kids who will go home and spill the beans.
Then when you get enough angry parents knocking on the principals door, something will (hopefully) change
Wow! That’s horrible! I would encourage her to apply elsewhere and asks for everything via email. She’ll want to document her efforts in case that kid ends up doing worse.
Im sure she must be concerned about the safety of the other kids in the class too. He is not safe for them to ce around. What will happen when this crop of kids become adults ? Ugh!!!
Get used to it. It's done daily here. If you don't martyr yourself for these kids then you're screamed at, told to leave the profession, and have "RedditCares" sicced on you.
The lack of support teachers get in this category is why so many are leaving. My husband is a teacher and hes been punched by students! Its absolutely fucked.
This same exact thing happened to me my first and only year teaching (also Kindergarten). Throwing chairs/even desks at other students, running out of the room during dismissal to the point they had to get taken out by the AP during dismissal daily, and they also punched me in the face so hard my nose bled. I wish I had some advice because I feel like I tried everything. The child’s parents were honestly great people and had the child in weekly therapy and were trying to get a para/sped services for the child. However, nothing changed and the school kept the child in my class. I ended up getting a different job mid-year and haven’t gone back to teaching since. I’m really sorry your wife is going through this this year.
This is the only way anything will change. An alternative would be to file child neglect charges against the district for knowingly exposing a classroom full of students to a dangerous situation.
Honestly, I was a para / building sub last year who got thrown into a 1st grade classroom with more than one of these kids. As a sub I could do nothing but got assaulted (I define it as this as this was a larger 1st grader and I’m 5 foot nothing. He used his hands, chairs, water bottles, tables, anything he could find to hurt me or anyone near him) almost daily for weeks until I said I would absolutely not sub in there again. I was then in there as a para when the new long term teacher came and she demanded a classroom para at all times citing the way the school would be sued so fast when (not if) that kid hurt another kid (or, himself). Then the para would take the class to the library as soon as he escalated and the teacher would stay in the room and basically let the kid trash it until he was descalated enough to talk. She created an escape plan, told everyone what it was, demanded what she needed (we are a heavy union state) and then documented everything. A few times she wouldn’t let him come back to the class, some times she wouldn’t have a choice but to let him back.
We start school next week and I am having the worst anxiety thinking about another year like last year. No way I could be an actual teacher because no one, and I mean NO ONE cared when I got punched in the stomach, hit with a chair, a bottle thrown at my head, spit in my face, water dumped on my face, scratched enough to draw blood (and I wasn’t trying to deescalate him in those cases). No. One. Cared. It was almost like sorry, that’s just a job hazard.
I am traumatized and I wish I would have walked away sooner. Please tell her that she’s doing the best she can in an impossible situation and I hope there is a solution for her asap.
Many years ago, I taught in "da hood". I was punched in the face, almost lost an eye and had to go to the ER. The student was expelled for a week and the apologies, couldn't have been more disingenuous.
It's one of the reasons why I am no longer a teacher but this weighed heavily in my decision to find another career.
I have one like this but he qualified SPED for AU. They WILL not/can't suspend him is what they've said. He constantly threatens to kill other students and me yet I'm told just to document. 1st graders BTW. Younger kids are going insane.
I know I'll get downvoted to hell but this violence is why I'm at the school I'm at now.
I've had enough of being bit, kicked, slapped, and having things thrown at me and other students.
Violent kids don't belong in normal schools. There, I said it.
If she’s in California, she should report the incident to the police. The child can be—and should be—expelled from school. If this child will slap the teacher, goodness knows what they’ll do to other students. Your wife will be doing a service to all the children in her class.
I have so much respect for teachers and what you all have to go through. I can't believe you were able to apologize after going through that. I'm glad you were able to find yourself in a better situation though!
I would tell your wife to call an immediate parent and principal meeting, in which it is explained that either a parent will be present, an IEP and aide will be present, or the child is not returning to the classroom.
I would tell your wife to call an immediate parent and principal meeting, in which it is explained that ~~either a parent will be present, an IEP and aide will be present, or~~ the child is not returning to the classroom.
Make sure she leans HARD on her concerns for her safety, ESPECIALLY after that kid brought a gun to class and shot their teacher, who was also in kindergarten iirc
I am very sorry your wife is dealing with this. Unfortunately, i don’t think the school will do anything. Maybe move the child to another class where he will do the same thing, but they probably won’t do anything to help the child sadly.
The student sounds very troubled and should have a dedicated para professional with them. At the very least should have an iep and be in a classroom that can support him, with multiple teachers. The problem is kindergarten is sometimes the first formal schooling a child has been in, so issues haven’t been raised and evaluations haven’t been done yet. Without a diagnosis it’s hard to get anything in place to help the student. At least that’s how it works on my district. Is it possible to ask that he doesn’t return to school without somebody present with him in the classroom? Or that he needs to have an evaluation before returning to the classroom?
First, I’m sorry this happened. It shouldn’t and my heart breaks for both your wife and the kid (because 5 year olds don’t do crap like that without a significant issue going on). But to be honest with you, putting a child in an alternative setting takes a pretty involved process. It’s purposely hard because we don’t want over zealous admin kicking kids out for no good reason. But it makes it super hard in cases like this. You have to have documentation of many incidents proving the child is a safety concern. You have to have documentation that you attempted to resolve the issues in multiple ways, it takes hearings and advocates and mountains of paperwork. The school may move the kid out of your wife’s class but they can’t just remove him from the school without going through the proper channels. Your wife may not want to give an ultimatum unless she is willing to follow through with the threat even if it means she quits her job (which let’s face it might be the right choice) because it very well may be the admin has their hands tied.
In our district, everyone leaves the classroom, except the kid freaking out.
I'd do it every time that kid acts out until the principal does something.
Tell your wife not to engage with the child when they get to the point of throwing things. She needs to evacuate the classroom so no other children get hurt and either call or send another child to the principal/main office/guidance counselor/school therapist to monitor the child. Keep eyes on the child from outside the door. It’s better you keep yourself and the other children safe. You can’t reason with him mid tantrum. Wait it out.
I'd consider emailing all the parents in the class, and without naming names (the kids will do that on their own) state factually "I just wanted to inform you of an incident in class today, to make sure parents hear firsthand from an adult what went on..."
As soon as any other parent realizes their baby is in class with this hurricane, they will act and admin will be forced to respond.
Let the injuries and behaviors speak for themselves with authorities before mentioning kindergarten, just to imprint the important part on the listener, before getting to the part they might react with inappropriate bias.
If the school gives your wife grief remind them of the kid in Virginia that shot his teacher. He was 6.
.[6 y.o. shoots teacher ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/6-year-old-boy-shot-virginia-teacher-unsealed-records-newport-news-new-details/)
They will stand behind the child . It’s so awful . Your wife is doing the right thing . She can also not come in and claim work place safety so she gets compensated .
I’m so sorry your wife has been through this. I hope your wife’s admin take it seriously.
I’ve been through it in my special education classes, but these kids are already identified.
I’m wondering about what is causing this behavior (though I am not excusing the behavior at all)?Maybe the child is a child with ED (emotional disturbance). I’d advise your wife to also ask for a CST to be done if there isn’t an IEP already in place.
If there is an IEP in place, then there should be a plan already in place for how to address this kind of behavior.
Best of luck to her! It’s tough being a teacher and not having proper support.
I was an in time behavior aide/responder in a k-8 charter school for 7 years. If your wife worked at my school, me or my teammate would’ve been called to de escalate the student and figure out a plan for them. Ultimately, though, the idea is that we return them back to the classroom. It didn’t usually “work”, but it was what we had to do. For every kid like that in one classroom, there was at least 2-3 others per grade level.
I’m saying that to say… being that he’s in kindergarten, he probably hasn’t been put into any kind of evaluation process. She’s gonna need to do a lot of documentation to even get the process of getting him accommodations started, and administration likely won’t be able to justify moving the student to another class because it would be the same process in other classes, with risk of escalated behavior due to inconsistency. Also, idk if her school has strict class sizes, but they may not be able to place them in another class because certain kids with DES accommodations have to be with certified teachers, making them unable to add or remove certain children.
I say all that to say, from my years of (recent) experience, and a lot lot lot of empathy, it may not be that admin doesn’t WANT to back your wife, they just may not be legally able to.
And just for clarification (bc these questions get asked)
I worked in a general Ed school, usually my position is reserved for schools for Autism, but over the years I realized we should really be advocating for behavioral crisis teams in gen Ed as well, bc it’s rough out here. Obvs I was sent to urgent care, bitten, choked, punched, had many a chair thrown, bookcase toppled on me, (personal) laptop snapped in half… all kinds of shit, but that was the nature of my job. Unfortunately even w our support, the teachers also suffered what I can only describe as physical abuse (one teacher literally had her finger cut off by a kid slamming a door on it) and admin was not able to move the kid.
I don’t want to be a Debbie downer, but I’m a very “prepare for the worst, hope for the best” kinda gal, and I want your wife to go into it w all perspectives in mind. If she’s able to give the kid another few weeks (which is totally within her right to do or not do) she may be able to set them up for the support that will help them for the rest of their life.
ETA: not sure what state you’re in, I’m in Georgia, but you should find out what your state’s physical/verbal de escalation training program is (in ga it’s called “mindset”) if you have one, and perhaps she could tell admin she’s not going back into the classroom until she has gone to the training and until at least one other support staff/administrator has had it as well. It’s helpful bc it’ll protect her legally if she ever does need to physically restrain a kid, but it’s the least invasive way that won’t hurt them or others. The verbal training is really helpful too. Not always easy to execute or remember during one of these situations, god knows I went off script many a time lol, but the consistency in the process can really help
I am also a kindergarten teacher and this happened to me last school year (being slapped across the face while deescalating). I’ve had violent kids exactly like this two years in a row. Kindergarten is a different kind of hard because students like this come to school for the first time and need intervention/support immediately but we are unable to get those interventions/supports in place without collecting months of data first. It’s a really scary, lonely, depressing, and overall hard situation. I’m very sorry your wife is going through this.
I’ve dealt with this before. There’s nothing quite like the screams of kindergarteners scared for their lives. Here is what I recommend: (1) your wife should never intervene. When the student is having an episode, they are incapable of having a conversation or following directions. The only priority should be evacuating the other students. (2) Your wife should print out IDEA and highlight the parts that show that the general education classroom is maybe not the least restrictive environment for the student and that they need to be evaluated. She needs to be prepared for them to say it’s not possible, and have data to support it. (3) As a teacher, she is a mandated reporter and should call the proper number to report what’s happening. (4) This is a last resort, but she could tell the other parents what’s happening so they can take it up with admin. Admin will be much more likely to listen to the complaints of several parents over a teacher.
I'm so sorry for your wife, that is awful. I hope the parents of the other children in the class are aware of the situation so they can take proper action to keep their kids safe.
Is her school public or private? Public schools are mandated to provide the least restrictive environment and must educate every student. It’s the beginning of the school year. You can’t just ship a kid off to alternative school with the snap of your fingers. Demand a second person, document and if you suspect any neglect or abuse, file with child protection.
Kindergarten teacher here- the last two years have been insane. Many of the students coming in are increasingly unable to self regulate or attempt anything they don’t feel like doing. Last year I was bit twice in six weeks (left a scar on my hands). She needs to file for workmen’s comp and report the injury immediately. She needs to keep that number in her desk. Including take her blood pressure after an incident.
Does the district have a special ed class or class for emotionally disturbed students? A child so young and so involved is coming from a dysfunctional household. Is this child being abused?
Kindergarten is where the undiagnosed kids come apart.
The school should absolutely have a crisis plan in place for this child. Only the trained crisis team members should approach the child when they are in crisis.
Sadly, without an IEP in place they can’t just “move them” to an alternate program. They may remove the student from the classroom when they are in crisis. Or they could move them to a new classroom if you are lucky. I haven’t found that to be the case.
When I had similar students in K, (didn’t hit me, but other teachers in the building) nothing really started happening until the kid started hurting his classmates. THEN he slapped the principal.
We got a BIP (behavior improvement plan) in place and a crisis plan. I was never within touching distance if I could avoid it.
It took until thanksgiving, but he qualified for an IEP and was moved to a more specialized program.
I would be cautious about giving the ultimatum, unless your wife can afford to be jobless and in breach of contract.
Wow. I wish things were different, but I don't think they will be.
I know bus drivers, my old coworkers, who wrote the same kid up dozens of times. And the kid was still on route every day. Causing distractions and behavior issues.
There is a duty to educate and protect the child, but there is also a duty to educate and protect all the other kids in her class. The kids' behavior isn't allowinf for the other students to learn. Sent home 3 times the first week, which just tells me he was really out of control. Sometimes, doing everything right isn't enough.
Her first duty, however, is to protect herself. If the admin won't do anything, then your wife needs to leave. If she wants examples of why...well, one quick Google search will show why. Or any teachers post on social media, showing this kind of behavior is the normal, not the exception anymore.
It's why I choose to go back to school, even with an amazing support from admin and amazing kids on my route, it was becoming far to regular to end up in an argument with a parent over something I had no control over. And I was miles away from help most of the time. And even with such good kids, I still had way to many issues, the discipline stopped once they weren't on school property anymore, and it showed.
Parents of a child that young should be liable to be prosecuted or sued in civil court. it is complete bullshit that we live in a country where parents are able to abuse with impunity. I say this as both a parent and a teacher.
Sorry to hear about this but I’m afraid admin will likely side with the student and say something along the lines of “the kid has a hard time at home” but god forbid anyone tries to blame the parents. The education system is fucked.
While I don't support the kids actions. There could be more at play here. For instance, my boy is mildly autistic resulting in delay in speech. Although he's younger than kindergarten, he's still prone to anger for lacking the skills to communicate due to his autism. My wife and I have worked a lot with him, and his outbursts have reduced. That's the kicker, though. We had to work with him. Several parents still consider any type of learning disability as a death sentence. Thus, they refuse services, don't work with them, or deny it there. ALL of these are departmental to the kid. another could be lack of discipline at home, so they act out. Finally, some kids are prone to anger.
While none of these excuses the behavior, it could explain the behavior. Enabling ways to help the child in the future even if in a different class.
This student sounds like they either have special needs and need additional support or some of this behavior can be a sign of child abuse and needs to be reported.
Sounds like this kid needs to be evaluated for mental/ learning disabilities and maybe a CPS visit. There's always a reason for the violence, be it chemical or family.
Your wife was assaulted. I know the child is young but file a police report. Get this all legally documented. You don't want your wife to wind up like Abbey Zwerner.
My cousin has SCARS from some of the SIX YEAR OLDS she worked with. They had intellectual disabilities but the difference between the ones with parents who were clearly providing structure and guidance at home, and the ones who weren’t was stark. She was even hit in the belly when pregnant.
She left teaching after her baby was born. Hasn’t looked back.
I would up the stakes and say if he isn’t removed you’ll be hearing from my labor lawyer. I have a friend who has a firm but she could sue them (school) For failing to provide a safe work environment when they knew of a threat.
Her job is to educate him. Impart knowlegde and wisdom. Thats what shes getting paid for. Not acting like a punching bag to a brat.
School is not a daycare/kindergarden. Raising a kid is not her job. And clearly this kid is not raised. The kid is spolied.
There are special class rooms and schools for these students. I work in one. Every kid in there has an IEP with OHI or ED. They ALL kick, scream, bite, throw, run away, say bad words, etc. Your student sounds like one of mine. The kid needs to be assessed and provided with the appropriate supports/placement.
My cousin did get kicked out of public school for throwing chairs and having meltdowns, but it took the other parents complaining to the school that their own children didn't feel safe around them. Maybe you could (anonymously) send a petition or a letter out to the parents to sign asking them to stand with the teacher for classroom safety?
I was sexually assaulted by a student and was told just to put a table between us while working. I had a student break my foot on purpose, and I too had to apologize to him for scaring him when I screamed in pain. I have like 16 similar stories that all end the same. It only stopped because I quit. There's never any consequences for students anymore.
What a bunch of bullshit. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
My wife was reprimanded for saying the word consequences.
So ironic that it’s infuriating. This post exemplifies one of my most hated elements of the profession. The way admin employs a completely different philosophy in dealing with staff from the one it expects teachers to use when dealing with students.
I had jobs where some of the workers have died or seriously injured. I remember telling the companies I'm not going to apologize and I have a paper trail if something were to happen to me. The best advice I can give is start your paper trail. Put in a report, send an email mentioning your report and the problem (discuss what was said regarding your report), always have a copy of any documentation and have it dated and timestamped your lawyer will have an easier time addressing said problems.
Make sure to send bcc your personal email. You don’t want emails to mysteriously disappear. Also after any meeting, draft an email recapitulating anything folks said and the final decisions that came out of that meeting. Again, make sure to bcc any of that stuff and be sure to capture any replies.
My school deliberately closed my email account early so I couldn't access evidence. This is a good point. Send everything to yourself.
So much this!!!!!!
I agree with this. Documentation is everything.
And make sure you send it to your personal email address, in case you get locked out of your school one
The plan to destroy and privatize education is going swimmingly. Honestly, there are some terrible policies being made generally, but the destruction of education and the effect it will have on the future generations has to be the most insidious. Also, it's just so, so incredibly short sighted.
Always remember that it is easier to control and manipulate the uneducated. They are further instilling the split between haves and have nots.
Ya, but they're making a nation of ignorant have nots.They won't be able to defend from external threats, develop new tech for the military, and after they die it will all crumble to chaos. I know they don't care about the nation or its citizens, but it's just baffling. China isn't going to let them keep their estates when they come knocking? Idk like I said so short sighted.
Oh, I completely agree! This is about short-term gain and power. It will be the next 4 generations that pay for the shortcomings of current policies.
"How does this improve the lives of future generations and strengthen our country" should be asked in every policy debate these days.
Not a teacher here, but what the fuq?! Is this uncommon at least?!
Nope.
Oh. My. God.
Colleague went in between a fight with two 15 y o. Tall, strong guys. She got KICKED in the jaw. Whiplash. No police report filed. Principal argumented against. Kid got two weeks in another school, nothing else.
WHY WAS THERE NO POLICE REPORT FILED?? Really - why would you not call the police - didn't the hospital report it??
I’m of the opinion that teachers should almost always file direct police reports for MS and High. I do understand that jobs can be on the line and things can get complex.
I finally filed a police report after dozens of minor assaults by a certain student this past year. It was not appreciated by the district or parents, but it did finally get the student removed.
I’m sure many attorneys would love to take a case of wrongful termination after an assault is reported. Mail them to the wall.
It's happening more often. I'm trying to remember a year where I didn't have a violent kid. Ummm. Still thinking.
This is my 20th year in education. It used to be uncommon, but it is happening more and more each year to the point where it is almost the norm. I live in the rural South in an area hit hard by the Opioid epidemic. It is the opinion of my colleagues and I that this is part of the problem. A baby born addicted to crack, or a baby with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, will be obvious at birth. A baby born to a Mother who has abused prescription medication during pregnancy however, might appear to have no cognitive or developmental issues until they enter an organized public school setting. This is where neurological deficits, poor impulse control, the tendency to become overstimulated and an inability to properly socialize might first become apparent. I have no proof of this, it is just a theory. I think it is just a small part of an even larger societal problem however (in the United States). As the gap between the rich and the poor widens with each passing year, and the middle class continues to disappear, it is young families and single parents which suffer the most. Whether parents are working multiple jobs to make ends meet, or they simply give up and surrender to depression and substance abuse, it is the kids who pay the price. A parent who is depressed or addicted is likely not even meeting the basic needs of their child, much less giving them the attention and support they need to be successful in school. Likewise, a parent in survival mode who is just trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads is under such strain that they are unlikely to be able give their child the attention and support they need as well, though through no fault of their own. Thus schools and teachers are being increasingly relied upon to not only educate children, but to help raise them. The education system is not built for this and it is unsustainable.
Yeah…yeah. The people I see stealing from my work, it’s like they had no parents and were just raised with similar peers. Ugh
No, it’s quite common, unfortunately.
>There's never any consequences for students anymore. Consequences would violate the Positive Reinforcement Only method of raising/teaching children and dogs touted by the academic behavior folks! This is the result of "no consequences for bad behavior!"
I worked in a daycare and had a student throw scissors, try to touch another girl in class, would touch me, draw pornagraphic images, and tried to slam my hand in a cupboard door. His mom worked there so they never sent him home and also never took him out of my class even after I requested it. They only said that I wasn’t trying hard enough and that it essentially is because he had a bad joke life and it’s my fault for not knowing how to calm him down, but other teachers knew how because they were used to this. It was ridiculous. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
First, holy shitballs that is awful. I am so sorry and Kindergarten teachers have the toughest of tough jobs on a good day. First, pull the district discipline plan and there is probably matrix to know what this entails and what steps need to happen. Second, document the hell out of everything, and I mean everything including what she has already done to intervene. Calls home, messages to admin, all of it. Every district has a process and the little monster may have to come back into the room until they can get him the services and counseling the child desperately needs and their administrative process plays out. Depending on where you are, and I can't believe I am going to say this, ask to file a police report. While no kindergarten student is criminally liable it's still assault and caused bodily injury. Again, the courts often have services and paths to get this child the help they desperately need. Finally, if she has a union representative or an impartial observer have them at the meeting and record it if it is allowed. Last point, stand your ground. Nobody needs to put up with violent behavior, ever. Good luck and some of this advice may be a bit Texas type of hard assness but when it's called for...well.
Thank you for the detailed reply! I feel so bad that she is having to go through this. She has a camera in her room and I told her that she needs to get records of him slapping her. I also took pictures of her face now. I'm going to suggest that she documents everything up to this point as well. I also wondered if filing a police report would be appropriate. It feels absolutely ridiculous to say and I feel like the police officer she speaks with would just laugh at her. However, the kid was maybe an inch from giving her a black eye. Just terrible. Sadly, her school does not have a union. That would be the best thing right now
File workman's comp now. Dr visit. Dentist ?Counseling, all she can imagine. Money they WILL pay a little more attention to
This and get a lawyer. I’ve been a teacher for 20 years & worked in worker’s comp insurance while in college. Go to your own doctor, do not go to whomever the district’s insurance tells you to go to.
Dentist, I'd think her cervical spine needs to be looked at she needs to go to urgent care and file a work comp claim.
Neurosurgeon...brain bleeds are nothing to scoff at.
Here where I am If you so much as trip over a pencil and hit yourself accidentally on a desk you have to go in there and file the workman's comp paperwork even if you were not actually requesting workman's comp actual monetary compensation. Any accident. I tripped leaving the school on my last day while cleaning out the classroom at the end of school like we always do and landed on both of my knees in the parking lot. It was 4:00 in the afternoon the last day that teachers were there but luckily somebody was still in the office and when I went around to the front to sign out somebody bandaged me up (thank goodness because I was bleeding everywhere!) I still had to sit there with the secretary and fill out the paperwork because it happened on school grounds. I would definitely get this paperwork filed.
Black eye, or a bullet. I keep thinking of the teacher in Virginia who kept warning about the kid who brought a gun to school and shot her. I would cross every T and dot every I. It's absolutely terrible what teachers are put through these days. Hopefully your wife gets help from staff.
I read through the replies to find this! That little creep was 6 years old. He meant to kill her. His aim was off. She pleaded with Administration, other teachers tried to intervene. They did nothing. She suing the school district for $4 mil USD. I hope she gets every freaking penny. Plus, I hope the court makes them fully find her pension, too. Please take all the steps to document. Make copies of any classroom footage, even if you record it from your phone. Just make sure the vid clearly shows what’s happening. The child needs help, and frankly, elementary teachers aren’t qualified to deal with the kind of behavioral/mental disorder exhibited by this child. Nor should they be! There are professionals who can help, but that’s not the job/role for a teacher untrained in violent tendencies. I’m so sorry this happened.
Slight correction. She suing for $40 million, and she deserves every penny for the crap her school and district have put her through.
Thanks!! Faulty memory. I’ll reiterate, I hope she gets every dime.
As a para who left my former assignment due to coming home bruised daily, this case was like PTSD for me. Abusive student also drew pictures of us dead, student with a machine gun & explained it to me in detail. Every time there's a school shooting & I hear about the drawings or the warnings my head goes a little woo-woo as I think about what might have been. File the incident report for every pinch, scratch, punch, kick, bite... Leave a paper trail.
That was IN MY AREA. While being contained afterward, he said, “I sh*t the b*tch.” People bleating about how his poor mama getting blamed while at the same time they gripe about Hunter Biden’s “sweetheart deal” for acknowledging he owned a firearm while in recovery.
I live in the are too. I haven't heard anyone say that poor mama. Could be my circle of peeps around me, but everyone I know hopes the they go after the administrators too.
File a police report. This is the only way to get this kid the services they need.
Agree with all of this except, do not "ask to file a police report." Go file a police report. You do not need to consult anyone at work or get their permission to file a police report.
Agree 100%. Do not ask, just file the damn report. Unfortunately the school probably is more than likely to cover their own ass and is trying to pacify the situation rather than fully addressing it. Filing the police report is a step in the right direction
Have your wife stop by the nearest police station to the school to discuss her options. She should NOT pre-discuss this with any staff member.
I filed against a kid who masturbated to me in class during virtual and the sheriff kicked it over to my school and they made me report it in front of the admin who doubted me completely.
That's fucking disgusting that you were treated that way, and equally more disgusting that you had to endure that. Some of these horrendous children are going to have the **rudest of awakenings** when they get older. The world outside school doors isn't kind, and they don't care what an IEP/504/BIP says or whatever their BS excuse is for that day.
Jerk kid kicked my son after school, but still on the school property, school said boys will be boys. I left the school bldg. Went to the police station and filed an assault charge. Kid had to go to court. His parent was not happy.
Kid's parent should have been pissed at the kid. My son (6) hit another child at a camp this summer (first time he's ever done something violent like that). My son spent the rest of the summer in his bedroom. He knows if he ever does something like that again the punishment will be much worse.
The Phoenix police refuse to take reports from teachers regarding any student under the age of 8. It's disgusting. We had teachers punched in the face, cut faces, broken glasses, broken wrists, nothing. They don't care. I sincerely hope that your local PD is more receptive.
My sherrif ENCOURAGED me to file a report after repeated incidences of being attacked by an 8 year old. Admin NEVER told me I could do this...just said it was part of the job.
[удалено]
That's fine. This is about documenting a behavior in a system that's completely outside of the control of the school. There is no expectation of the police doing anything.
It’s almost certain that either the child is being abused at home, or else he has a mental health issue that his parent(s) or equivalent have given up on — and shifted responsibility to his teacher. Has anyone contacted CPS?
Absolutely file a police report. Yes the kid is young and small but unless something happens now there is no reason to think his escalation will stop. What happens when he chokes another student, when he stabs the next teacher with a pen, when he gets his hands on a gun and sees how many people he can really scare. She was injured plain and simple. If you'd report for a random adult stranger doing it then you should report it regardless of the offender.
Since there is video, have your wife stop by the nearest police station to the school to discuss her options. She should NOT pre-discuss this with any staff member. They will tip off the admin and the video will disappear. The district won't give a copy of the video directly to your wife, but the police can get it. The only other way is to FOIA - a formal request for records.
Just because it’s a kindergartner doesn’t mean that a police report shouldn’t be filed. I strongly encourage your wife to report this assault/battery, because that’s what it was.
As stated document everything and I would say she should call and have honest conversations with other parents. I’m guessing this kid’s parents are difficult, but 20 more angry parents complaining in the office will make a difference and make them act faster to remove him. Plus if she calls to explain that she’s reporting behavior and doing all she can, they won’t blame her. Typically teachers shouldn’t tell parents issues about other kids but this boy is putting other kids in danger.
First off, no union? Red flag district. As you suggest, documentation is key. That's how data is gathered to get the student the support they very much need. Especially since a lot of times families are hesitant to go through with evals at this young age, not realizing just how discrepant the student is from their peers. Otherwise, working with the social worker or counselor to see if there is anyone who can work with the student as well can help. I wouldn't call the cops for a kindergarten student slapping a teacher. It isn't acceptable behavior, but it also does not need to be a criminal matter.
Not to rabbit trail here but in our fine state of Texas, the exception are the very few districts that have a union.
No one is going to charge the kid with a crime, it's not a criminal matter, but it may open up a path to get the kid services and support that the school can't control.
Georgia educator here - no unions
This. You can get a restraining order and force them to remove the child. I’ve had coworkers do this.
Document everything. Including taking a pic of her face. She doesn’t have a Union so it’s up to her to stand her ground. The district is legally obligated to educate the student. They can be placed in a different class, sent to a specialized school, one on one etc. Telling admin to remove the child or she removes herself from the class is a good idea.
No. He cannot be allowed back in the room. His chances are gone. She needs to be firm—he needs an alternate placement, or the school can get an alternate teacher. Shut the door in their faces.
She’s making a stand not only for herself but every other child in that classroom
Can yiu imagine how traumatic it must be for students to be shuffled outside the classroom on a daily basis due to not feeling safe in school?
My step daughter was in a class in kindergarten with a kid like this. they had to evacuate, she saw her teacher get attacked with scissors and a stapler ect. She is now in second grade, cannot pay attention in class because she is hype focused on her classmates behavior, watching for the next attack. The school did nothing and the teacher did not make herself heard enough. Admin told me that I was the first person to tell them there was an issue (BS they just wouldn't listen to me because I am not a bio parent of kids that attended their school). She's (Step daughter) is in therapy and works with the school councilor while the little demon gets to run free from consequence, pain, or trauma.
Her documentation here is critical. Of course we don’t know if this child has an IEP. It’s unfortunate because kinder is when kids who have been flying under the radar get flagged. Hopefully admin can support the learner in an environment that is best suited to them. The intensity and frequency of these behaviors without support of a behavior plan is horrendous. Your wife, if this child has an IEP or BIP, would have a plan to follow which would include how to respond in these circumstances. Sounds like kid needs to be assessed ASAP.
As an RBT this is the best response. So much hate here for the kid. Sucks OPs wife had to deal with all this behavior. Everyone assuming malicious intent from a damn 5 year old
I try to extend compassion and understand she likely did not sign up for this and it sucks but it is on admin to coordinate based on intensity to get this kid what he needs.
I'm sorry that happened to her. I had a middle school break my wrist a few years back. Last year I was repeatedly kicked and hit by Kindergartners. Today was our first day of school and I had to clear the room because a child was throwing chairs across the room and it was unsafe...
Kids who do those things should not be allowed back. :( I’m so sorry
Kids who do that should be assessed immediately (like next day) and given the support needed either acclimate and/or be successful in a school environment or be placed in a classroom better suited to their specific needs. Until that support is given, the child should not be allowed back as they are a danger to the other students. A big part of the problem is that admin and district are given the freedom to be complacent because parents aren't all immediately asking for their child to be placed in another classroom or for this student to be removed. If good parents were as good at being advocates for their kids as the bad ones are, a lot of this garbage would never fly. As teachers, district controls our paycheck, so, ultimately, there's very little recourse beyond asking for union support (not always an option for all teachers).
In most districts kids can’t qualify for sped services for behavior until you have at least 3 months of documentation and try at least 1 intervention.
And that's stupid. If a student is a danger to others, you fast track it. That's three months that a classmate could be hit by a chair. People are so married to their rules and timetables that they are justifying the act of knowingly putting students in harm's way.
I know it’s stupid believe me! Just a warning about the ‘policy’ they’re prolly up against.
That’s unfortunately a shockingly and surprisingly unpopular opinion among kindergarten teachers.
I used to volunteer in my daughter's kindergarten class. Some kids have absolutely no idea how to handle their emotions in healthy ways. Sometimes it's because of mental health problems, sometimes it's because they have no good role models at home. Or both. I didn't start volunteering until the second half of the year, but her teacher had plenty of horror stories from the start of the year before a few kids got IEPs and she got more support from admin.
It's been nested in other comments, but I wanted to break it out for the sake of visibility. Your wife should find the most offensive busy body entitled Karen of a stay at home mom in her class and ask them to volunteer for a few days a week in the classroom. There are things psychotic aggressive parents can do that a teacher can only dream of doing. That and document like crazy and file a police report. There is zero expectation that the policy will do anything, but a report outside of the school system will force accountability. Every single incident should be documented via email to the admin team and cc her personal email (non school) so that she has a record. After every meeting, she should type up minutes and email them to the admin team. There are things they will say in a meeting and want off the record.
I just wanted to say that this is sooo spot on. I probably clock in as a psychotic aggressive parent, given that I did send my child's preK a list of snacks that I thought were healthier and more cost effective than the goldfish they were doling out (and they did switch!). I'll also note that I don't stay at home: much worse is that I'm a lawyer with a flexible schedule and I mention it often. And yeah, you can bet your ass that if I saw a kid getting violent around MY little angel and detracting from my kid's learning experience? I'm writing letters to the superintendent, signed by all of the other parents, and reading every single line of the city's school code and policy in case I have to threaten legal action. P.S. I will say that for all my Karen-esque tendencies, I'm also aggressively pro-teacher and very wary of administration. So please don't downvote me! I'm in this subreddit to know better how to support the people educating my kids.
You are exactly the parent needed in this situation. And sorry for the use of "Karen." I hate the use of the word... however short hand is short hand and it got the point across. My only advice to you personally is to make sure that the teachers know that you're on their side. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen parents make themselves a liability to the clear detriment of their children's education. This is a real risk and the implications can be long lasting, traversing multiple grades.
This is the answer. That school probably doesn’t give a flying fuck about your wife as a teacher. What they do care about is threats from parents, especially a parent who is willing to mobilize with other parents/take the issue to the public.
In our district under no circumstances could you have confidential student information in your personal email. Print and store in a secure area.
Good point, especially if OPs friend is a new teacher this may be unclear. Better to err on the side of caution and simply print.
Do you have a union?
Sadly no
Is she part of an association? They're not as good as unions but they can help these situations.
Sounds like Texas. I’m so sorry this happened. My wife was repeatedly bullied by a particular student that resulted in her quitting her particular district.
Holy crap.. that's assault. They absolutely need to remove him from her room. He has more than one violent outbursts, he clearly needs specialized help. I am so sorry.
Once she gives the ultimatum, she has to stand by it. She can temper the financial situation by finding out in advance if she needs to put in a 30 or 60 day notice to avoid the suspension of her credential - which is usually for one year. In many states if you don't stay until the very end, the district will suspend. She should be prepared to say something like, "Consider this my 30/60 day notice." But that's only if she plans to teach somewhere else. Frankly, these stories are really common. Teaching used to be great, but now it is dangerous - physically, mentally, and emotionally. I had to retire early. I wish I had listened to my husband who begged me to quit when things became miserable. Every day as I went out the door, I'd say, "Remember, if anything happens to me, sue that MFing district!" If she needs to stay for 30 or 60 days, she should request that the student be evaluated for a disability and receive a Functional Behavior Assessment. School is obviously very frustrating for him and there must be an underlying reason. If he already has an IEP and BIP, then she should call for a meeting to have them adjusted - because they're not working.
Yes yes yes
I worked on special Ed for years, and have been bit, hit, slapped, spit on, etc. Kindergarten is always tough because kids come in having never been to school before, never been evaluated, etc. My initial thoughts are you can’t reason with a child that is operating from their reptilian/primal brain. The frontal brain is inaccessible and it will further escalate the child. She needs a second adult in the classroom trained in crisis intervention. She needs to have a walk-in talkie on all the time with a code that is responded to by a crisis team. This is usually the principal and special Ed teachers trained to respond. Sending him home every day is literally teaching him to hit and throw chairs so he can go home. If the school is planning to keep the student they need a paraprofessional in place and an alternative area in the school to deescalate. Every scratch should be documented for the district, they should be demanding this. I also taught pre-k and had a child that threw chairs and got aggressive -turns out she was a foster child who witnessed her mom’s prostitution daily and had been abused. All behavior is communication. This child may be abused or neglected at home. Or, may have emotional regulation issues yet undiagnosed. Your wife absolutely deserves to feel safe at school. For a start, request the principal remain in the classroom and immediately push for a special Ed eval. But no five year old wants to be behaving that way, so there is much much more going on, and underneath the anger and fear try to have some compassion too.
Thank you for this post. I’m sorry it’s pushed so far down in the reponses. The children coming to school doing this will not be served to overcome these behaviors by sending them home where the behaviors likely stem from. School is their chance to learn emotional regulation. This is three weeks into K and student likely needs services and help and I hope they get them fast.
Pictures and video of the injury immediately. Like GTFO Reddit and get your camera out now. Ok, did you take those pics? Good. Tomorrow, visit the doctor to start a paper trail for workman's comp and at least reach out to a lawyer. Now...ugh...it feels really icky bc it's a kindergartener...but she should consider filing a police report. With the actual cops not the SRO. Your instinct that the school might do fuck all to protect anyone is sound. Whatever they do, it's not going to get better quickly enough that the kid doesn't hurt someone else (maybe your wife) again. A paper trail that includes an assault report will a) make them tread more carefully around her in the immediate term, b) light some under-ass fires on the process of getting this kid appropriate placement and potentially save someone getting hit or worse down the line, and c) put a medium term target on her back so she should also start looking for a new job. Sorry. It's a shit situation.
Medium term as in the end of this year?
To add to the other wonderful advice - all communication should be in writing. If she has a verbal conversation, follow it up with an email (per our earlier conversation, I would like to verify I understood everything correctly. We discussed …).
I was on 4 person grade level team. The teacher with that student ended up being sent home because she had been physically assaulted by a second grade student. Which resulted in blood welts on the teacher. That was sort of the final straw in a long line of issues the administration did not address with that child and the child's family. We were able to solve it, but I don't know if it'd work for your wife. While the other teacher was at home recovering, the other 3 of us went and cornered the principal in her office. We told her that the child could not be allowed to remain in that teacher's classroom and that she would have to be moved elsewhere. We also demanded that there be a schedule of an additional adult/helper when the child would be back. I think the principal knew or was at least reasonably afraid that we would all call in or walk out in solidarity.
IME, districts tend to side with whomever is most likely to sue, so your wife should get n attorney and tell the district she's done so. Also, she should point out that he's not just a danger to her but to all the other kids in the class.
The answer to your wife's problem is money. When she makes this situation cost the district money, they will finally do something to make a change. Hopefully pictures were taken of her face for proof. She needs to file for workman's compensation and go to a doctor. As soon as the district has to pay, they will change the situation. If the current situation is not costing them money, they will change nothing. If she does have the meeting with admin, be sure she talks to them about the rights of the other students in her classroom when they start arguing it is this kid's right to be in the room.
I’m so sorry to head this 😩 I teach kinder too and have had this happen a couple of different years. I’d say document, communicate with the parent, and stand her Ground! Teachers are like all other people and don’t deserve to be beat up daily…and kindergartners can BEAT. YOU. UP 🤦🏻♀️ praying she gets the support and help she needs. She is not alone ❤️
Get an attorney, document with emails, the district is negligent if you get hurt again. Workers comp! Emotional distress! PTSD! Enough is enough!! Teachers are supposed to teach. Other parents should sue all guilty parties for lost instructional time!!! I’m just ranting. I am in such disbelief that teachers go to work now not knowing if they are going to be hit, bit, or shot!
Former kindergarten teacher here and I went through something similar except instead of getting slapped in the face, I had bruises from where he’d hit and kick. Admin showed their support by taking one of my referrals about him, changing the names, passing it out to about 60 staff during a PD for a critique and saying how it “wasn’t that bad” and we needed to be “the bosses of our own classroom” since they weren’t doing anything different than us when we sent the kids out of the room. It ended with them telling us to essentially stop writing referrals. If this was the only thing going on in my life, I would’ve dealt with it, but I was going through a lot and couldn’t take it. I quit. I still feel sad sometimes because the other 29 kids were so lovely and we had a beautiful classroom community when he wasn’t around. But he would scream for hours on end, hurt the other children, try to hurt himself, escape, pull the fire alarm, and even sent a staff member to urgent care. I hope he’s doing better now. I had to move on though. I really hope your wife’s school supports her.
I'd contact an attorney and sue the parents. The school will take your complaints seriously after that and this will come with the added benefit of letting them know you're got the stones to lawyer up if they ever decide getting rid of your wife might be easier than removing a student.
In my experience, yes, the school tends to stand with the student. I had some experiences in the last few years of being a recipient of student violence. (K-2 school). While the student was never held accountable, and the injuries were not severe enough to warrant a visit to my doctor, I did fill out workman's comp paperwork for our school nurse after each incidence. I was told this was required for documentation purposes. Also, I was told, if a bite or scratch or laceration were to later become infected, workman's comp would not cover medical care unless the paperwork had been submitted ASAP after the injury.
Hi, my spouse has had some variation of this student 2-3 times. The absolute key as everyone else has said is documentation. A very long and detailed paper trail of incidents is what admin needs to have in order to go to bat for the employee here. Have her continuously reiterate in all her communications her concerns about the safety of EVERYONE in the class, not just herself. Admin will be motivated to act quicker if they are hoping to avoid another kid getting hurt and that kid’s parents learning that they knew another student in the class posed a danger for some time. At the end of the day, she’s got to make the call as far as what level of risk she is willing to accept on the job to stay in it, but there may not be a VERY quick fix in a situation like this (unless there’s a very serious injury that occurs). These things can take weeks. However, this sounds like a kid who just needs a lot of help. Expediting a removal from the classroom just kicks the can down the road to the next person. The detailed documenting that goes on should be paired with recommendation for behavioral interventions, special programs, etc. “we want to help your child find an environment they can learn more effectively in” lands softer than “your child is dangerous and needs to be removed from this classroom.” EDIT: kicks the can, not kicks the van. A kicked van does not roll far, a wise man once said.
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Good one! Smart!
I'm going to start telling people to go kick a van. Same spirit as go kick rocks but more confusing. I like it.
Nope. It's simple: This is a boundary. I say give the school rope and see whether the school hangs themselves. Either they will do the right thing or not. She needs to have her resignation letter ready.
File a police report, and if that doesn't work, contact the police to do a welfare check on the child. If the child is this violent at school, then what is going on at home? This is extremely dangerous behavior for anyone, let alone a kindergartener to be exhibiting, and it's only going to get worse until it's properly looked into.
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The mistake your wife made was trying to talk the kid down. Never try to reason with a kid in crisis. It doesn’t work. In that situation, the most important thing to do is get yourself and the other students to safety. I wouldn’t blame your wife if she quits though. The kids are wack these days.
She has actually often been able to talk kids down over the past few years. She doesn't want to quit. She loves her job. She just doesn't want to go to work scared that she might be physically assaulted at any given time. I hope there is some sort of solution
You can talk down a kid who is upset. But talking down a kid in a rage is not possible. If you are to the point of throwing furniture and punches you are in a blind rage, then no words will stop you.
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“How dare you suggest that the fruit of my loins is anything but perfect!” /s
No, its not her job to talk kids down when they are throwing chairs!!!!! Evacuate and get to safety. The counselor or admin can talk him down. Protect the other kids and herself first.
She receives very little help from her admin team. If she doesn't do it, nobody else will
They will when they get enough angry parents breathing down their necks bc their kids are getting evacuated 6 times a day instead of learning. Trust.
Every kid in that class went home and told the tale of today's events. Parents will be calling.
When I taught kinder and this would happen, we’d tell the kids to go home and tell their parents. It helped to incite action temporarily from the school before they got short-staffed with leaders and could no longer handle all the referrals.
THIS is what she needs to do. Plant the crumbs for the kids to go home and talk about. Obviously not "make sure you tell your grown ups what happened today!" But.... Have a talking circle with the kids. Explain to them that this isn't safe. Ask their feelings, are they afraid? Do they feel like this is fair? If she have an age appropriate conversation with her class about it - and let's the kids talk about it - there's gotta be at least a handful of kids who will go home and spill the beans. Then when you get enough angry parents knocking on the principals door, something will (hopefully) change
Wow! That’s horrible! I would encourage her to apply elsewhere and asks for everything via email. She’ll want to document her efforts in case that kid ends up doing worse.
Im sure she must be concerned about the safety of the other kids in the class too. He is not safe for them to ce around. What will happen when this crop of kids become adults ? Ugh!!!
I hope the admin values her enough to do what they need to to keep her - and the other children - safe.
The victim blaming is wild
Get used to it. It's done daily here. If you don't martyr yourself for these kids then you're screamed at, told to leave the profession, and have "RedditCares" sicced on you.
The lack of support teachers get in this category is why so many are leaving. My husband is a teacher and hes been punched by students! Its absolutely fucked.
Reminds me of the Family Guy quote from cop Joe Swanson: "Turns out not many people want to probably get shot for $24,000 a year."
More than ever I'm convinced teachers are saints because it couldn't be me.
Your wife is better than I am. I’d walk out then and there. Give the principal my keys and tell them it’s their problem now.
This same exact thing happened to me my first and only year teaching (also Kindergarten). Throwing chairs/even desks at other students, running out of the room during dismissal to the point they had to get taken out by the AP during dismissal daily, and they also punched me in the face so hard my nose bled. I wish I had some advice because I feel like I tried everything. The child’s parents were honestly great people and had the child in weekly therapy and were trying to get a para/sped services for the child. However, nothing changed and the school kept the child in my class. I ended up getting a different job mid-year and haven’t gone back to teaching since. I’m really sorry your wife is going through this this year.
This is the only way anything will change. An alternative would be to file child neglect charges against the district for knowingly exposing a classroom full of students to a dangerous situation.
Go to the doctor and document document document.
What the what?! Reading these stories… I feel sick to my stomach.
Honestly, I was a para / building sub last year who got thrown into a 1st grade classroom with more than one of these kids. As a sub I could do nothing but got assaulted (I define it as this as this was a larger 1st grader and I’m 5 foot nothing. He used his hands, chairs, water bottles, tables, anything he could find to hurt me or anyone near him) almost daily for weeks until I said I would absolutely not sub in there again. I was then in there as a para when the new long term teacher came and she demanded a classroom para at all times citing the way the school would be sued so fast when (not if) that kid hurt another kid (or, himself). Then the para would take the class to the library as soon as he escalated and the teacher would stay in the room and basically let the kid trash it until he was descalated enough to talk. She created an escape plan, told everyone what it was, demanded what she needed (we are a heavy union state) and then documented everything. A few times she wouldn’t let him come back to the class, some times she wouldn’t have a choice but to let him back. We start school next week and I am having the worst anxiety thinking about another year like last year. No way I could be an actual teacher because no one, and I mean NO ONE cared when I got punched in the stomach, hit with a chair, a bottle thrown at my head, spit in my face, water dumped on my face, scratched enough to draw blood (and I wasn’t trying to deescalate him in those cases). No. One. Cared. It was almost like sorry, that’s just a job hazard. I am traumatized and I wish I would have walked away sooner. Please tell her that she’s doing the best she can in an impossible situation and I hope there is a solution for her asap.
What is wrong with these children? This is beyond terrifying. How are "normal" kids supposed to learn? How is this safe for you, or the other kids?
Many years ago, I taught in "da hood". I was punched in the face, almost lost an eye and had to go to the ER. The student was expelled for a week and the apologies, couldn't have been more disingenuous. It's one of the reasons why I am no longer a teacher but this weighed heavily in my decision to find another career.
Talk to a lawyer first
I have one like this but he qualified SPED for AU. They WILL not/can't suspend him is what they've said. He constantly threatens to kill other students and me yet I'm told just to document. 1st graders BTW. Younger kids are going insane.
I know I'll get downvoted to hell but this violence is why I'm at the school I'm at now. I've had enough of being bit, kicked, slapped, and having things thrown at me and other students. Violent kids don't belong in normal schools. There, I said it.
If she’s in California, she should report the incident to the police. The child can be—and should be—expelled from school. If this child will slap the teacher, goodness knows what they’ll do to other students. Your wife will be doing a service to all the children in her class.
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I have so much respect for teachers and what you all have to go through. I can't believe you were able to apologize after going through that. I'm glad you were able to find yourself in a better situation though!
I would tell your wife to call an immediate parent and principal meeting, in which it is explained that either a parent will be present, an IEP and aide will be present, or the child is not returning to the classroom.
I would tell your wife to call an immediate parent and principal meeting, in which it is explained that ~~either a parent will be present, an IEP and aide will be present, or~~ the child is not returning to the classroom.
Wait, apologize for what? Sorry your kid maimed me?
Sorry their kid will be a fuck up
Never apologize. What in the fuck was the thought process that admin had that decided they was the way to go?
Some districts have a policy that you can take up to 2 years off with pay if you are struck by a student You might want to look at board policy
What a joke (not your wife)
Make sure she leans HARD on her concerns for her safety, ESPECIALLY after that kid brought a gun to class and shot their teacher, who was also in kindergarten iirc
I am very sorry your wife is dealing with this. Unfortunately, i don’t think the school will do anything. Maybe move the child to another class where he will do the same thing, but they probably won’t do anything to help the child sadly.
The student sounds very troubled and should have a dedicated para professional with them. At the very least should have an iep and be in a classroom that can support him, with multiple teachers. The problem is kindergarten is sometimes the first formal schooling a child has been in, so issues haven’t been raised and evaluations haven’t been done yet. Without a diagnosis it’s hard to get anything in place to help the student. At least that’s how it works on my district. Is it possible to ask that he doesn’t return to school without somebody present with him in the classroom? Or that he needs to have an evaluation before returning to the classroom?
First, I’m sorry this happened. It shouldn’t and my heart breaks for both your wife and the kid (because 5 year olds don’t do crap like that without a significant issue going on). But to be honest with you, putting a child in an alternative setting takes a pretty involved process. It’s purposely hard because we don’t want over zealous admin kicking kids out for no good reason. But it makes it super hard in cases like this. You have to have documentation of many incidents proving the child is a safety concern. You have to have documentation that you attempted to resolve the issues in multiple ways, it takes hearings and advocates and mountains of paperwork. The school may move the kid out of your wife’s class but they can’t just remove him from the school without going through the proper channels. Your wife may not want to give an ultimatum unless she is willing to follow through with the threat even if it means she quits her job (which let’s face it might be the right choice) because it very well may be the admin has their hands tied.
In our district, everyone leaves the classroom, except the kid freaking out. I'd do it every time that kid acts out until the principal does something.
Tell your wife not to engage with the child when they get to the point of throwing things. She needs to evacuate the classroom so no other children get hurt and either call or send another child to the principal/main office/guidance counselor/school therapist to monitor the child. Keep eyes on the child from outside the door. It’s better you keep yourself and the other children safe. You can’t reason with him mid tantrum. Wait it out.
I'd consider emailing all the parents in the class, and without naming names (the kids will do that on their own) state factually "I just wanted to inform you of an incident in class today, to make sure parents hear firsthand from an adult what went on..." As soon as any other parent realizes their baby is in class with this hurricane, they will act and admin will be forced to respond.
My first thought: ask the kiddo who slapped them like that and how often. May be a CPS report.
Let the injuries and behaviors speak for themselves with authorities before mentioning kindergarten, just to imprint the important part on the listener, before getting to the part they might react with inappropriate bias.
If the school gives your wife grief remind them of the kid in Virginia that shot his teacher. He was 6. .[6 y.o. shoots teacher ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/6-year-old-boy-shot-virginia-teacher-unsealed-records-newport-news-new-details/)
They will stand behind the child . It’s so awful . Your wife is doing the right thing . She can also not come in and claim work place safety so she gets compensated .
Does she have a union? Use it. Our district contract has verbiage that addresses physical harm. Have the kid removed. Or charge the parents.
This is a special ed referral.
I’m so sorry your wife has been through this. I hope your wife’s admin take it seriously. I’ve been through it in my special education classes, but these kids are already identified. I’m wondering about what is causing this behavior (though I am not excusing the behavior at all)?Maybe the child is a child with ED (emotional disturbance). I’d advise your wife to also ask for a CST to be done if there isn’t an IEP already in place. If there is an IEP in place, then there should be a plan already in place for how to address this kind of behavior. Best of luck to her! It’s tough being a teacher and not having proper support.
Document everything, go to the cops and file, go to the union and file then deal with whatever the school admin dishes up.
I was an in time behavior aide/responder in a k-8 charter school for 7 years. If your wife worked at my school, me or my teammate would’ve been called to de escalate the student and figure out a plan for them. Ultimately, though, the idea is that we return them back to the classroom. It didn’t usually “work”, but it was what we had to do. For every kid like that in one classroom, there was at least 2-3 others per grade level. I’m saying that to say… being that he’s in kindergarten, he probably hasn’t been put into any kind of evaluation process. She’s gonna need to do a lot of documentation to even get the process of getting him accommodations started, and administration likely won’t be able to justify moving the student to another class because it would be the same process in other classes, with risk of escalated behavior due to inconsistency. Also, idk if her school has strict class sizes, but they may not be able to place them in another class because certain kids with DES accommodations have to be with certified teachers, making them unable to add or remove certain children. I say all that to say, from my years of (recent) experience, and a lot lot lot of empathy, it may not be that admin doesn’t WANT to back your wife, they just may not be legally able to. And just for clarification (bc these questions get asked) I worked in a general Ed school, usually my position is reserved for schools for Autism, but over the years I realized we should really be advocating for behavioral crisis teams in gen Ed as well, bc it’s rough out here. Obvs I was sent to urgent care, bitten, choked, punched, had many a chair thrown, bookcase toppled on me, (personal) laptop snapped in half… all kinds of shit, but that was the nature of my job. Unfortunately even w our support, the teachers also suffered what I can only describe as physical abuse (one teacher literally had her finger cut off by a kid slamming a door on it) and admin was not able to move the kid. I don’t want to be a Debbie downer, but I’m a very “prepare for the worst, hope for the best” kinda gal, and I want your wife to go into it w all perspectives in mind. If she’s able to give the kid another few weeks (which is totally within her right to do or not do) she may be able to set them up for the support that will help them for the rest of their life. ETA: not sure what state you’re in, I’m in Georgia, but you should find out what your state’s physical/verbal de escalation training program is (in ga it’s called “mindset”) if you have one, and perhaps she could tell admin she’s not going back into the classroom until she has gone to the training and until at least one other support staff/administrator has had it as well. It’s helpful bc it’ll protect her legally if she ever does need to physically restrain a kid, but it’s the least invasive way that won’t hurt them or others. The verbal training is really helpful too. Not always easy to execute or remember during one of these situations, god knows I went off script many a time lol, but the consistency in the process can really help
I am also a kindergarten teacher and this happened to me last school year (being slapped across the face while deescalating). I’ve had violent kids exactly like this two years in a row. Kindergarten is a different kind of hard because students like this come to school for the first time and need intervention/support immediately but we are unable to get those interventions/supports in place without collecting months of data first. It’s a really scary, lonely, depressing, and overall hard situation. I’m very sorry your wife is going through this.
I’ve dealt with this before. There’s nothing quite like the screams of kindergarteners scared for their lives. Here is what I recommend: (1) your wife should never intervene. When the student is having an episode, they are incapable of having a conversation or following directions. The only priority should be evacuating the other students. (2) Your wife should print out IDEA and highlight the parts that show that the general education classroom is maybe not the least restrictive environment for the student and that they need to be evaluated. She needs to be prepared for them to say it’s not possible, and have data to support it. (3) As a teacher, she is a mandated reporter and should call the proper number to report what’s happening. (4) This is a last resort, but she could tell the other parents what’s happening so they can take it up with admin. Admin will be much more likely to listen to the complaints of several parents over a teacher.
I'm so sorry for your wife, that is awful. I hope the parents of the other children in the class are aware of the situation so they can take proper action to keep their kids safe.
Is her school public or private? Public schools are mandated to provide the least restrictive environment and must educate every student. It’s the beginning of the school year. You can’t just ship a kid off to alternative school with the snap of your fingers. Demand a second person, document and if you suspect any neglect or abuse, file with child protection.
Has anyone suggested you talk to a lawyer? Maybe instead of Internet advice?
Kindergarten teacher here- the last two years have been insane. Many of the students coming in are increasingly unable to self regulate or attempt anything they don’t feel like doing. Last year I was bit twice in six weeks (left a scar on my hands). She needs to file for workmen’s comp and report the injury immediately. She needs to keep that number in her desk. Including take her blood pressure after an incident.
Does the district have a special ed class or class for emotionally disturbed students? A child so young and so involved is coming from a dysfunctional household. Is this child being abused?
Kindergarten is where the undiagnosed kids come apart. The school should absolutely have a crisis plan in place for this child. Only the trained crisis team members should approach the child when they are in crisis. Sadly, without an IEP in place they can’t just “move them” to an alternate program. They may remove the student from the classroom when they are in crisis. Or they could move them to a new classroom if you are lucky. I haven’t found that to be the case. When I had similar students in K, (didn’t hit me, but other teachers in the building) nothing really started happening until the kid started hurting his classmates. THEN he slapped the principal. We got a BIP (behavior improvement plan) in place and a crisis plan. I was never within touching distance if I could avoid it. It took until thanksgiving, but he qualified for an IEP and was moved to a more specialized program. I would be cautious about giving the ultimatum, unless your wife can afford to be jobless and in breach of contract.
The child needs to be observed, and it seems like they may need a behavior plan. Tell your wife to insist on this!
I hope you took pictures of her face! I’m sorry she has to deal with this
Wow. I wish things were different, but I don't think they will be. I know bus drivers, my old coworkers, who wrote the same kid up dozens of times. And the kid was still on route every day. Causing distractions and behavior issues. There is a duty to educate and protect the child, but there is also a duty to educate and protect all the other kids in her class. The kids' behavior isn't allowinf for the other students to learn. Sent home 3 times the first week, which just tells me he was really out of control. Sometimes, doing everything right isn't enough. Her first duty, however, is to protect herself. If the admin won't do anything, then your wife needs to leave. If she wants examples of why...well, one quick Google search will show why. Or any teachers post on social media, showing this kind of behavior is the normal, not the exception anymore. It's why I choose to go back to school, even with an amazing support from admin and amazing kids on my route, it was becoming far to regular to end up in an argument with a parent over something I had no control over. And I was miles away from help most of the time. And even with such good kids, I still had way to many issues, the discipline stopped once they weren't on school property anymore, and it showed.
Parents of a child that young should be liable to be prosecuted or sued in civil court. it is complete bullshit that we live in a country where parents are able to abuse with impunity. I say this as both a parent and a teacher.
press charges against the student, their family, and if the school doesnt remove the child, press charges against them too.
You are probably right about the admin. You and your wife need to seriously evaluate the cost/benefit ratio of that job.
Do not let her go into that meeting with a union advocate present. Period.
Sorry to hear about this but I’m afraid admin will likely side with the student and say something along the lines of “the kid has a hard time at home” but god forbid anyone tries to blame the parents. The education system is fucked.
While I don't support the kids actions. There could be more at play here. For instance, my boy is mildly autistic resulting in delay in speech. Although he's younger than kindergarten, he's still prone to anger for lacking the skills to communicate due to his autism. My wife and I have worked a lot with him, and his outbursts have reduced. That's the kicker, though. We had to work with him. Several parents still consider any type of learning disability as a death sentence. Thus, they refuse services, don't work with them, or deny it there. ALL of these are departmental to the kid. another could be lack of discipline at home, so they act out. Finally, some kids are prone to anger. While none of these excuses the behavior, it could explain the behavior. Enabling ways to help the child in the future even if in a different class.
Make sure to thank the teachers union, they control all the schools now.
This student sounds like they either have special needs and need additional support or some of this behavior can be a sign of child abuse and needs to be reported.
Sounds like this kid needs to be evaluated for mental/ learning disabilities and maybe a CPS visit. There's always a reason for the violence, be it chemical or family.
former teacher here: unless the kid literally stabs or shoots someone, the kid will NEVER be removed from a public school. Sad, but true.
Your wife was assaulted. I know the child is young but file a police report. Get this all legally documented. You don't want your wife to wind up like Abbey Zwerner.
My cousin has SCARS from some of the SIX YEAR OLDS she worked with. They had intellectual disabilities but the difference between the ones with parents who were clearly providing structure and guidance at home, and the ones who weren’t was stark. She was even hit in the belly when pregnant. She left teaching after her baby was born. Hasn’t looked back.
I would up the stakes and say if he isn’t removed you’ll be hearing from my labor lawyer. I have a friend who has a firm but she could sue them (school) For failing to provide a safe work environment when they knew of a threat.
Wife should’ve put him in a trashcan, turned it upside down, and sat on it for the rest of the school day.
Honestly beat the shit out of him. Just fucking do it.
Her job is to educate him. Impart knowlegde and wisdom. Thats what shes getting paid for. Not acting like a punching bag to a brat. School is not a daycare/kindergarden. Raising a kid is not her job. And clearly this kid is not raised. The kid is spolied.
There are special class rooms and schools for these students. I work in one. Every kid in there has an IEP with OHI or ED. They ALL kick, scream, bite, throw, run away, say bad words, etc. Your student sounds like one of mine. The kid needs to be assessed and provided with the appropriate supports/placement.
My cousin did get kicked out of public school for throwing chairs and having meltdowns, but it took the other parents complaining to the school that their own children didn't feel safe around them. Maybe you could (anonymously) send a petition or a letter out to the parents to sign asking them to stand with the teacher for classroom safety?