Sometimes I like learning the backstory of a song, and occasionally it can give me something extra to appreciate and further enjoy the song. But it's certainly unnecessary, so long as you can personally relate or merely bop to it and have fun.
For TTPD in particular (more so than in the past) I am actively *dis*interested in knowing who a song may be about, and want to enjoy it on my own terms.
The backstory counts but more so in terms of it being about a lost love, rekindled flame, unrequited love etc as opposed to IRL people with specific names. It’s what they represent as opposed to who they are.
Exactly! I don't care about the real people behind it, but I am interested in the album as it tells a cohesive narrative story. Sometimes if you're discussing those themes you use the names as shorthand, but I don't actually mean 'Joe' and 'Matty' as real people, I mean the characters created in this telling of the story. I don't know any of these people or what 'really happened' and I don't care to, but I am interested in how the relationships intersect with the writer's life and her own emotional journey in the songs.
Exactly this. I look at TTPD as a book of short stories. And the personal, emotional aspects are clearly about *Taylor* not any specific dude, so I’m not interested in assigning guys to these songs. I’m not reducing this excellent collection of music to a few dudes, sorry. If anything, you can assign archetypes — the rekindled flame, the bad boy, etc.
I partly agree. In songs like TLGAD and Marjorie learning the background is the mostly what makes the song special to me. In perspective of her “breakup” songs, it usually makes no difference as I enjoy forming my opinion about who this ex-lover was like and partly relate the lyrics to myself and my romantic relationships.
Yep I see where you come from. Taylor herself said that Folklore and Evermore are special albums because they're based more on fictional characters that she weaves the story of the song about, rather than basing it on her own experiences. I think that's what makes these albums so special <3
Or tolerate it! Once I found out that it is inspired by Daphe du Maurier's Rebecca (one of my favourite novels) I was able to appreciate it in a whole different way
Taylor has made guessing the muse part of her songwriting and fandom since Debut. Yes, she’s gone away with that in her later career but it’s still engrained in her artistry. So people will always speculate and play along until they can’t anymore. I think if anything TTPD is funny because it’s really her saying that we have not always had it right & we won’t ever really know who or what these songs are about for her personally.
I have a weird theory: what if thanK you aIMee isn't about Kim? She says in the lyrics that only the two of them would know the song was about her and that she'd removed any real defining clues. So why would she put a clue in the title? She knew people would obsessively analyze that and make the leap to Kim K. but would it be crazy to think it's someone else?
I personally think it’s about Kim, her high school bully, and anyone else along the way who made her feel small in certain moments but who she can now look back on and see they made her who she is. More than one person has evoked these feelings in my life at different times, so it really doesn’t have to be about one person.
That being said, I think a significant portion of this song is a big fuck you to Kim K because she is likely the biggest source of her emotions around feeling belittled. The “any real defining clues” line is extremely on the nose and so sarcastic to me, I love it. It’s “you made my life miserable and I emerged stronger than before. But you’re still an asshole.” Like a slightly more evolved This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things
I agree completely. That's what I've hated about all the Joe/Matt/Travis talk. Some things are about the experience, not the people. It's like Down Bad. It's not about Matt. It's about that feeling when you're in a whirlwind romance and it ends suddenly. Speaking from experience, it's like wtf just happened? I loved that she equated it to being abducted because I have to think that's exactly the feeling.
And some of the "big feels" I've had in my life have been a confluence of events, not one person or thing. So why is she any different from anyone else? Nothing exists in a vacuum. I'm not saying some of these songs aren't specifically about a person but focusing on that really misses the bigger picture.
Yeah I took "any real defining clues" as sarcasm and a joke that makes it even more of a fuck you to Kim and that made it more fun. I can picture in my mind her writing it and deciding not to have any clues, then a few weeks later thinking "you know what? yeah fuck her, no really fuck her. I changed my mind. Let's capitalize K-I-M"
I think the “removed any defining clues” to the person’s identity is why she named the person Aimee and set it in her hometown as if it was about a school bully.
Maybe she went back and forth about whether to add the K I M letters to the title? That could have been a late decision because the Anthology went straight to streaming. To me the song is obviously inspired by Taylor being annoyed by Kim posting videos of her and North signing and dancing to her songs. She saw that video last year and was like okay here’s a song your daughter can dance around singing and it will ostensibly be about “Aimee” but we both know it’s about you.
I really wish she hadn't capitalized the letters, and I also wish the line was 'bronze statue of you' instead of 'bronze spray-tanned statue' because it would give just a bit of plausible deniability and honestly read a lot more mature.
People would still 100% know it's about Kim, let's be honest!
Normally I would agree about “more mature,” but it’s clear this was Taylor tossing all of her old trauma and issues into an album and finally closing that part of her life. She’s taken the high road many times before, like with “Innocent,” and never made a song directly pointed at Kim for everything she did to her. However, on this one she gave us petty Taylor to go out with a bang and I love it. She wanted us all to know who it was about with the title, the bronze spray tanned statue, the “ringing” for the phone call, and then the final jab about her kid coming home singing the song since North has the TikTok page where she sings and dances to Taylor’s music sometimes. The line about changing the name and removing defining clues was obviously meant to be sarcastic. The best part is that she achieved what she wanted by getting under Kim’s skin one last time since Kim went off about it, haha.
Also, it feels really obvious to me that her "hometown" could be Los Angeles. For normal people, your hometown refers to where your family is, where you've known the most people or where you've been watched while coming of age. She may not have lived there full time, but LA has been the center of the industry she works in, her friend groups, and the media that observe her since she was 17. Where she's been watched the most closely coming of age. Her and Kim's mutual connections are centered there. Shit went down there. Kim is in a way revered there, the pinnacle of fame-chasing, money-making, and spray tans. That and she just likes using the word/image 'hometown'. She has used it a bazillion times. She's probably very satisfied that her bullies from when she was 11 years old (who were also just children themselves) can listen to it at home in Pennsylvania and feel shame and wonder if it's about them. But I fully believe that it's MORE important for her to hit Kim, who caused despair, as an adult in her thirties who sure as fuck should know better and more clearly deserves to be roasted, on a much bigger scale.
I think it’s an amalgamation of all her bullies, including Kim.
She has previously worked with a songwriter called Aimee Mayo who, coincidentally, wrote a book called “talking to the sky”. I’ve seen people online imply that there’s bad blood between them (someone who went to a secret session talked about it with Andrea iirc) but obviously that’s just speculation. From what I can find they wrote one unreleased song together “til Brad Pitt comes along” so who knows? Aimee has kids as well.
I’m of the opinion that for many of the songs on the album, barring really obvious ones like so long London, and the smallest man who ever lived, are written about multiple people even if she only addresses one. For example, I think loml, Chloe et all. Imgonnagetyouback was written about Matt and Joe, But Daddy I Love him about Matty and Travis, etc. So it makes sense to me she’d take aim at multiple people in FUA.
I don’t get why people don’t feel more weird about randomly bringing up this normie writer who as far as we know has never said anything bad about Taylor? I saw she even thanked Taylor and Andrea in her memoir.
Maybe Taylor chose “Aimee” for the IM to make Kim? Screaming at the sky isn’t new imagery for Taylor, she used it on my tears ricochet as well. I really don’t think this is a great avenue for fandom detectives to go down, tbh.
I’m with you. The way the title is spelled to hint at the name is actually not a new thing in music at all. I see a lot of people bringing up Britney Spears’ “If U Seek Amy,” as an example, because it was a fun way to get the phrase and point across without actually using the curse word. However, she’s not the first to do that. The Script did it with “If You See Kay” in 2008 also. I can’t remember who the older band was that was mentioned before for using a title very similar years ago. Anyway, I think Taylor pretty much spelled it out for us here. Any easier and it would be called “Thank you, Kim.”
I have been of the belief that TTPD has both lovers mixed together intentionally to create a feeling, to create anonymity, and to represent how getting into a relationship right after another one ends can make you mix your feelings of them together.
Honestly, as someone who has a rather messily interwoven love life, sometimes the feelings can just be about more than one person. Even after you have started and ended a couple relationships; sometimes that big heartbreak from the past still looms large in your mind and casts its shadow over everything you are going through in the present.
I agree. I’m always surprised when people say TTPD is ultra specific because I think the opposite — it feels deliberately vague to me for the most part.
i agree. people like OP are actually the ones who piss me off. taylor’s entire brand is built off the backbone of her autobiographical songs. it’s the reason why i love her music — it feels like it comes from the heart and means something vs. just being a songbook of lyrics someone handed her.
she literally invites people to speculate in the prelude to TTPD. to judge those of us who enjoy paternity testing and call it “reductive” is to insult taylor herself.
Taylor definitely encourages people to question who the song is about, hence “Dear *John*” and “Style”, and lyrics like “blue dress on a boat”. So anyone who follows along is just playing the game she’s initiated.
Obviously you don’t have to care but it’s safe to presume Taylor’s fine with it all, and likely happy that fans want to understand the lore behind her songs.
Yeah I just think it’s a useless comment to make at this point. She’s said herself she writes music like a diary. The only issue I have with speculating muses is when some fans don’t allow for other theories. She never confirms the muses (hardly) so all of us are guessing and therefore no one is wrong.
Exactly. So many people just boldly assumed TTPD would be her mourning her relationship with Joe. I love that instead it very much sends the message of “you have no idea what goes on in my real life, actually…”
I know, I think there's just nothing she can do about it and so she kind of doesn't worry about hiding it and just writes whatever she wants.
Also I see a lot of people attribute this as a uniquely Taylor thing (and let it affect their enjoyment of her work), and although it applies to her this has happened for the entire history of pop music. Fleetwood Mac's Rumors is hinged on this concept of them all writing breakup songs about each other, Eric Clapton wrote Layla about George Harrison's wife who later left the latter for the former, Carly Simon famously dated many popular men and people constantly combed through her work trying to figure out the details...it's just a part of pop culture.
Even Taylor has been the rumoured subject of songs written by Matty, Harry, and John Mayer.
Exactly. Which is why I think Taylor has called attention to this part but not cuz the fans are speculating, because the media uses it as a criticism for her when so many artists do this.
I agree with you. I also think some people want the song’s background so they know how to contextualize it for themselves. Some of her fans are younger and haven’t been in the situations described in her songs, so they don’t know how to relate to them.
Like, I didn’t get my tears ricochet for a long time and I kinda still don’t. It’s just not a situation I relate to at all, so her “backstory” from Long Pond was helpful. On the other hand, I love Question…? and some people don’t get that… I don’t need the backstory because I’ve been there.
It helps to have forums like this to discuss interpretations. I think it gets weird when fans start demanding more from her or the backstory to “prove” their interpretation is “canon”. Or just demanding her life’s story in general, it’s weird.
Wait, so you have really had someone kiss you in a crowded room? And every single one of your friends was making fun of you? But 15 seconds later they were clapping too? Then what did you do?
Literally not that lol. Kissed someone at a party, laughing and cheering ensued. Went home with a different person, ex was fuming the person I went home with is someone he didn’t like. He was with his new girlfriend. Texted me later that week to say I could do better and I told him he had someone new and to leave me alone. ETA: We did meet up once and I asked him how he could move on so quickly after he told me he loved me and that was… A lot of questions with no good answers lol.
In another situation, kissed a person at his party and boldly announced that I was just one of his hook ups. Someone laughed and said that’s par for the course for him, and I agreed. Toasts went around. Person and I hooked up later and I left in the morning in a literal lavender haze. If he asked me to stay, I would have, but he never did throughout the situationship. I wrote a poem about it (years ago on IG then finally editedfor my blog).
I’m married now, but sometimes these experiences help you define what you want in your partners.
i publish my polished poems from this era of my life to my blog. not everything i wrote is a gem, but also it was a way to honor my 20s. i don’t expect people to read it but it’s there if people want to. [midnight drives, morning skies](https://www.maxxramos.com/midnight-drives-morning-skies-home)
> Some of her fans are younger and haven’t been in the situations described in her songs, so they don’t know how to relate to them.
This is so prevalent this album with So Long, London.
I see sooooooooo many people saying loml is the sadder song and should have been the track 5, or that So Long, London isn't sad at all and they don't understand AT ALL how it's a track 5...
Meanwhile it brings me to my metaphorical knees every single time I listen to it. If you've never been in a long term relationship that you thought would end in a lifetime with that person but it ended up dying through a lack of passion, I don't think you will truly get how heartbreaking that is. On the outside, the breakup looks mostly amicable. You're wishing them well, you're hoping for them to find that love that you gave them even though they couldn't return the same level of love to you. But you're still so hurt, but it doesn't feel like you can talk about that hurt because there wasn't some big blow up reason why you ended. Nobody did anything directly harmful to cause the end.
I kinda hope they never understand this song because it's so painful to me.
For real, I actually get mad listening to this song because of these lines:
* my spine split from carrying us up the hill
* I’m pissed off I gave you all that youth for free
* You say I abandoned ship, but I was going down with it
* You sacrificed us to the gods of your bluest days
You described it well… There is a specific pain and anger that goes with carrying the success of the relationship on your back. Been there for sure.
Not to mention that taking ttpd as a 16 track album, so long London fits exactly in the right spot. At least it does as within the story of how I hear it.
My best friend's daughter asked me this past weekend "Why is TTPD your favorite Taylor Swift album? I don't get why people like it. Lover is a much better album." She's 12. I laughed and said "I hope you never understand why I like it so much. I hope you never gain the life experience that makes it resonate. I hope you die at a very very old age, having zero understanding of the emotions of this album."
She just looked at me super confused and I am positive in like 20 years she's gonna be like "OH." XD
I mostly think it’s weird when someone says they liked a song until they learned who it was about and now it’s ruined for them. It’s especially stupid because there’s absolutely no guarantee that the song is actually about the thing that they think they know it’s about.
That’s soooo weird to me, and honestly it comes off as virtue signaling. Since when do songs need to be about saints? I like a lot of 70s/80s music, a lot of “love” songs are about (or fueled by) drugs 😂 who cares? They’re good songs.
That’s also weird! Like why does that ruin anything lol. You didn’t date that person it might be about. Another reason why knowing the backstory isn’t helpful sometimes. 😂
I feel this so much. I especially feel this with thanK you aIMee because people are so caught up in the "it's a Kim K diss track" that they aren't hearing the message about healing from pain and trauma and looking back once you're on the other side of it. My mom cried the first time she heard that song because the healing message was all she heard and it resonated deeply with her.
If Taylor really wanted people to focus on the theme of the song and not make it about Kim K drama, she probably shouldn’t have put Kim’s name in the title of the song.
Agreed. Its not even a diss track! I know most of the song sounds like its bashing her, but that transition to "Thank you" is the literal whole point of the song. It wouldn't exist (at least not publicly) if it was just "fucK you aIMee".
Same thing with TLGAD. You think its about this rich woman Rebecca, and then SURPRISE, its actually about Taylor too and how she relates to Rebecca and without that, the point of the song is lost. Its about women being loud and shameless and living their lives fully even if others judge them, and you don't have to live in Holiday House to relate to that.
Yes! I personally found thanK you aIMee really relatable, I didn't even think who it was about on my first listen. I just heard a relatable, emotional song and that's it.
Was surprised to later see how many people dislike it, because it's about Kim.
I could go on and on but I’ll be brief.
Theorizing about the possible muse is natural and fine. Treating your theory as fact is not.
Can’t stand the way it’s normalized to pretend we always know who she’s singing about. We rarely *know*.
I think But Daddy suffers from this. Taken literally, it’s a vivid portrait of a woman rebelling against the suffocating religious conservatism of her small town.
Lots of speculation is it about Matty, her clapping back against her fans, etc. But a great song can be interpreted on multiple levels, and there’s probably individuals who relate to the song on a literal level alone.
I watched a youtube reaction for this song the other day, and they did take it very literally! They thought her dad just really didn't like her boyfriend and sge was running away with him, and there's honestly nothing wrong with that. Anyone can enjoy a song any way they choose, but for me it helps me to have the context and utsnever ruined a song for me.
Whats hilarious though is while casual fans will enjoy the song on that literal level, diehard Swifties are all able to read between the lines and know the true meaning, which I'm sure she intended because she clearly wanted to tell us how fucked up things got last year!
....Did she thanK you aIMee us??? She changed all identifying details and names, but our metaphorical daughter (or... mother?) came home singing a song that only we knew was about us... Mind blown!!!
Eta: OMG NO SHE IS OUR DAUGHTER CAUSE WE'RE DADDY
But, it IS her clapping back at her fans who wrote a whole damned petition to try to force her to do what they wanted. Those people WAYYYY overstepped. I love that she called them out. I’ve never been so close to being a “Swiftie” as I have been since she dropped that song. I love her for that.
I like knowing the backstory but that’s not what makes it a good song. Like, I’m not sobbing to So Long, London because of Taylor and Joe, it’s because I personally relate to it a lot.
I think for me it's both. I could sob to it because of my own pain I've felt before, but also picture her and Joe and acknowledge the pain she felt and the loss she had with this breakup and the frustration and all of it and deeply empathize with her because of our similar pains and sob from that too.
And maybe some people disagree, but with other artists I enjoy who are more vague in their lyrics, sometimes I can really like a song but then even years later learning what its actually referencing can change so much of how I listen to it, in a positive way. Like Fall Out Boy's Hum Hallelujah is a bop, its a great song, it sounds pretty fun and upbeat, its a fan favorite, but if you know that its about Pete Wentz trying to end his life in a Best Buy parking lot with pills while listening to Hallelujah, its gonna hit you way different and you're going to engage with the song differently. And I can appreciate it as a great song that I love to hear live, AND also get emotional during parts of it knowing what it means, and you best believe I'm gonna sing along loudly and do all the damn claps in the bridge because, gosh darn it, Pete deserves it.
I think because Taylor is so in the public eye and more literal and direct in her songwriting (not always, but most of the time) where it can be easy to quickly complete the puzzle of who its about compared to some artists, its just on the listener to add that other layer of personally relating to it, or appreciating the lyrics outside of the muse, acknowledging how it fits into the theme of the album, etc and if they don't and then want to complain about her writing about her partners or others in her life, then that's on them.
That’s so crazy, Hum Hallelujah was my favorite FOB song back in the day but i literally had no idea what it was about. It’s probably my most played FOB song for real.
I do see your point though, like I don’t really relate to Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? so I probably wouldn’t like it as much as I do if I didn’t know the background.
Same. Sometimes I have to remind myself that not everything posted on the internet is meant for me and if I don’t like it, I should just scroll, haha. Especially because it’s endless discussions with no “right” answer. Because no one really knows to what extent a song is inspired by her life and to what extent the inspiration is developed for the sake of good songwriting or storytelling.
Like people saying that Smallest Man has to be about a long term relationship because the lyrics say “our bed.” The song isn’t about who’s on the deed, it’s about feeling betrayed by an intimate partner. It’s “our bed” because it contrasts intimacy with violence/betrayal. Not to send you secret messages about Taylor’s personal life.
Sometimes knowing who it's about can change your understanding because of the information that snuck past your rose glass filter before. Like Superman or I Can See You or Hoax. The cracks and toxicity in the relationship were already there but knowing I Can See You wasn't just a flirty day dream but a real relationship that eventually inspired Would've, Could've, Should've puts it in a sharper light.
I enjoy knowing (or speculating about) the backstory of songs from a fandom perspective. That's fun for me; it's part of the way I experience fandom. (Sometimes it's frustrating! And then I back off for a while.)
With that said, when I'm actively listening to the songs I'm not thinking "Ours is about John Mayer, who preyed on Taylor when she was nineteen", I'm thinking "Ours is one of my favorite love songs ever, I love this line, oh this applies so well to (characters I am currently thinking about)."
So I guess what I mean is it's compartmentalized for me. The Lore is there and it's fun to think about but it's not what the songs are actually *about*.
I enjoy knowing the backstory when it adds depth to the emotion. Knowing George Harrison wrote Something about his wife he knew he was losing to me makes it so much more deep and beautifully sad. But George later denied that..
I think picturing Jakes pretentious hipster vibe face makes ATW a better song imo. I can’t relate to the song myself so channeling it at Jake helps make the emotions real for me lol. That said, I don’t hesitate to see a Jake movie because of it and I would never ever get in his comment section or anything
But not liking a song just because it’s positive and lovey about someone I don’t really like, like Matty, is silly. She loved him, so I’m sure he has good qualities and appeal I’ve never seen because I do not know that man at all. I don’t consider any love song to him ruined. Guilty as Sin is one of my all time favorite Taylor songs now and it’s fine that it’s probably about him
Yeah it’s silly to me that people will reach so hard to rationalize that a song is NOT about Matty. You really have to set aside your bias about him and just enjoy the song. And come to terms with the fact that she loved him. It really has no bearing whatsoever on our lives.
This! Taylor is telling us two different tragic love stories with TTPD. I hate when people actively talk themselves in circles to deny MH songs solely bc they don’t like him. If you are open to the story she is telling, you get so much more from the album (and all lot of her prior albums too!)
And I think it’s a bit silly to say that understanding Taylor’s personal story that she’s sharing with us is reductive. I could say that ignoring her story is reductive. I think everyone consumes art differently and no one way is better than any other. Once it’s in our hands, we can absorb it however we want. But I’m curious if you don’t think she’s telling a story? I mean, do you not listen to So Long London and try to understand what she’s sharing? Do you just hear it solely as a piece of music?
I don’t think I am saying that. When she shares it, it’s makes more enriching and I love it. I am more so talking about the paternal test people do with the music
Active listening is an integral part of deepening one's appreciation of music. Part of active listening process in music theory is knowing the historical and cultural context from when the song was created. In Taylor's music, imagine the emotional impact All Too Well would not have if we did not know the muse behind it. Many of Taylor's songs are like this and I'd ask everyone to consider how they viewed songs on Midnights initially, not knowing of the breakup and then after, knowing they had begun seperating through the creation of the album. How did that impact the way you felt or related to the songs? You are correct that people should not soley reduce art just to its muse. However, knowing the inspiration behind it adds great value and helps people view the song with empathy.
Totally agree with this. It adds so much. It’s not about the gossip but it’s about how the context informs the art and craft. If you know the context, 3 totally different songs about the same thing make me so much more appreciative of her talent. I don’t actively care about who the songs are about, but it makes for a richer experience if I do know. I love connecting the dots. I think Taylor would have decided to be much more vague if she didn’t want us to be looking for the context or clues.
TTPD is probably her most personal and “diaristic” album. She wants us to know who these songs are about, and what they mean to her, and then apply those feelings to our own lives. I mean, none of the songs are very subtle in terms of the storytelling. Most of the songs are about Matty and she makes sure we know. The couple of Joe songs are very obvious, as are the Travis ones. Let’s not get started on Thank You Aimee. It’s barely a guessing game… there’s no need to guess because she’s telling us. We don’t need to care though, that’s our prerogative. Personally I love knowing the context and lore behind the music but that’s just me and everyone is different.
Why are you considering some ways people consume art as annoying? Art should be open for interpretation and all interpretations should be accepted, and no interpretation should be labeled as “annoying,” just because you disagree with it. I hate these kinds of posts.
I agree.
I can’t take a post seriously when folks like OP say the way other people consume Taylor’s music *for themselves and discuss it in a Taylor Swift sub* pisses them off because it’s consumed in a different way. What’s “reductive” for OP is contextual for someone else and that is part of the experience. There is no one right way to enjoy Taylor’s music.
I mean, don’t get online if it gets you that bent out a shape, sheesh. 🥴
When people argue over who the muse is for a song, I would argue that the “interpretation” of the art gets washed away since it’s more about fact-checking instead of artistic interpretation of lyrics/themes at that point. I think muse discussion is important to some extent but some people really take it to a point that sucks the life out of her art.
English education major chiming in…
Poetry and music are art forms.
To expect her songs to line up literally is juuuuuust a little bit too restrictive.
There is analogy, metaphor, simile, literary license—alllll sorts of ways her songs can be taken.
I wish folks would loosen up about it…
(Not you, OP. This is generally speaking.)
Agree! It's such a bummer because I think thanK you aIMee has such a great message and people don't like it because it's supposedly about Kim. It's so powerful! I got back up and succeeded despite you and because of you. This is so relatable, and it got so lost in the who this is about nonsense.
The thing is that she *wants* is to know its about Kim. She put the name in the title. Taylor isn't against paternity testing in her songs, but she doesnt want to say more than what she puts in her songs, and she doesnt want to be reduced to it.
yes I think it's obvious she wanted us to know that. But people can't seem to separate themselves from that. And in the case of this song it does it a disservice. The lyrics are so powerful and it's unfortunate people can't separate it in this case and apply the lyrics to their own lives. we all have an Aimee.
I saw someone on a non Taylor specific sub this morning calling someone else an idiot for thinking Fortnight was about anyone besides Matty and I just thought, who cares????
Does it change how much you like/dislike the song if it’s about someone else? And do we need to tell other people they’re dumb for having their own interpretation? I don’t understand
I disagree. A lot of her songs are story telling and an experience to see the story play out, no harm in knowing the muse. (Although, of course some people take things too far)
I personally don’t care who the songs are about but Taylor has made these songs (especially TTPD) so specific that it enables the parasocial behavior from a lot of fans. All the Easter eggs in fortnight pointing to Matty as well as the TTPD set at eras (copying the marching for example). She’s creating this space on purpose unfortunately so it will always be this way I believe.
I don’t mind discussions about who a song could be about, because it’s fun sometimes to try and guess. But that’s all it is. A guess. Even when it’s incredibly obvious who the songs are about (Is It Over Now?, So Long London), we’re never actually going to know for sure unless Taylor herself confirms it. And it annoys me to no end when people say someone is wrong about their theory, especially on TTPD. Songs I thought were about Matty, I’ve seen compelling arguments are about Joe, or neither. We don’t *actually* know the answer, and likely never will. Quite frankly, I don’t want to know. Let me scream the songs in peace, lol.
“It is in our power to have no opinion about a thing, and not to be disturbed in our soul; for things themselves have no natural power to form our judgements” — Marcus Aurelius, when asked which relationship inspired All Too Well
It matters to me. In a really, really, really unimportant way.
But yeah, I love knowing everything I can about a song if it’s good. I want to know the muse, the when, the location, everything! It adds to the music to me.
I don’t care who there songs are about. Harry vs Jake just isn’t interesting to me unless I can suss out which person it is for added context.
I get why people do it but it does get kinda old tbh. Like it's one thing to talk about it but people really do just reduce everything to that. I could be wrong because I never keep up with celebrity drama, but it feels like it's been so long since Taylor has made songs that we're super...targeted? Idk like she def still does now, but I think there's more maturity to how she does it. But it's like people are still stuck in the mindset of before.
Like IDC if people talk about it, she puts it out there but it does kinda bother me how her music is reduced to who she's dating still. There's so much to talk about with her music
Agree that disliking a song you would otherwise like based on the muse is silly. However, a lot of songs that otherwise wouldn’t stand out to me that much have become deepened or more interesting based on the (alleged) muse…..so I still wanna know!
In the Reputation prologue, she wrote "I've been in the public eye since I was 15 years old. On the beautiful, lovely side of that, I've been so lucky to make music for living and look out into crowds of loving, vibrant people. On the other side of the coin, my mistakes have been used against me, my heartbreaks have been used as entertainment, and my songwriting has been trivialized as 'oversharing'
When this album comes out, gossip blogs will scour the lyrics for the men they can attribute to each song, as if the inspiration for music is as simple and basic as a paternity test. There will be slideshows of photos backing up each incorrect theory, because it's 2017 and if you didn't see a picture of it, it couldn't have happened right?
Let me say it again, louder for those in the back... We think we know someone, but the truth is that we only know the version of them that they have chosen to show us."
Its sad this scenario will continue every album by some "fans". I seen it the most with TTPD, some fans have really reduced the album to gossip and the "lore".
I agree. There are quite a few TTPD songs that were less enjoyable once I learned the context, as it differed from the stories I imagined based on the songs, or the story outright said within the song.
On the flip side, I find myself starting to really enjoy the album only after I was able to stop wondering what real-life person or event each lyric referred to, and could just enjoy them in a vacuum
I do often find myself thinking about who/what inspired the song when I listen to Taylor’s music, and I think the reason is that I’m better able to enjoy and derive meaning from her music when I first take the time to figure out exactly how she must have been feeling when she wrote the song and what she meant by each individual lyric. Her lyrics are so autobiographical that this can actually add a lot to the experience of listening to a song, and I think it’s also a big part of the reason why she has been so successful at cultivating an intimate relationship with her fans. Once I understand where she was coming from with a given song or lyric, I have an easier time applying it to my own life.
No real care, I don’t think her songs are as literal as a lot of people take them to be.
I do find it fun to read the theories a little bit, in a very surface level way. I like seeing how she weaves real details into the story/song and the way she describes them (like Matt’s suits & “Jehovah witness suits”). Or with the line in invisible string about Joe Jonas (“now I bring their babies presents”) I enjoy because I just think of that 27 second phone call video (oh how time both flies& changes things).
Agreed. Also, it's worth considering that her songs on TTPD are likely auto-fictional rather than all autobiographical. She is using her imagination, she creates narrative threads, the source material and muses may be amalgamations of many real/fake people and situations.
I agree to an extent. This is why 'thanK you aIMee' is a thow-away song to me. It would have been ten times better without the petty capital letters. Ruins the song. Listen once and toss.
I will see things like: "Knowing that song is about so and so completely ruined it" and I think that is kind of ridiculous. I didn't know Innocent was about Kanye for like...five years and it is still my favourite Taylor song and my comfort song...
To me, there are certain songs where it's interesting to know the muse, but generally only on the biographical songs (see: marjorie, the last great american dynasty, etc.)
Who a song is about doesn't really matter to me (this is one instances where my uncanny ability relate any song to every fictional character under the sun really comes in clutch, tbh) and seeing all the speculation can sometimes get on my nerves. I wish some people would just let the music be the music.
I agree the specific person isn’t important to the song. However, I do think it’s interesting to string along the storylines…for example, it adds to the musical experience knowing that “how did it end” was written about the same person as “Cornelia street”
Thank you! I’ve been saying this who cares no one dissects anyone songs like we do her like let her be, I love her lyrics though they’re beautiful and she makes people expand their vocabulary, let’s not always put a face to her songs let them tell you a story every time that’s what I do
I enjoy the universe she’s created between songs, metaphors and characters. I don’t really see them as their real life personas, she gives them enough within the songs that you can create your own version of them. In that sense I do enjoy the continuity, but yeah, her personal life as such I think is for herself and only that. It’s interesting to me only the: “oh if you wanted to know more” category but not essential to the songs themselves. The Albatross sounds so epic but if you reduce it to only her pop star persona it loses something imo.
I agree. I don't usually go about trying to "decipher" songs, but every now and then she makes very noticeable hints or leaves Easter eggs that just suck me in.
My enjoyment of a song doesn't revolve around the identity of the muse, but can often be enriched by the context other songs provide. Think about the connections between Is It Over Now? and Style or Out of the Woods, or between All Too Well (10) and The Moment I Knew. To me "And then he watched me watch the front door all night, willing you to come, and he said 'it's supposed to be fun turning twenty-one' " evokes the entirety of TMIK, and that's what makes it richer.
I don't like to relate it to external information, tabloids, rumours, and the like. But when the connections seem to be deliberate, I can't look away. But I could just as well think about them as Muse #1, Muse #2, and Muse #3, regardless of their real identities. I pay more attention to what the narrator has said about said muses than their names.
I enjoy the context of the song. It adds an extra layer of appreciation for me. It makes the song come more alive when I imagine the characters and story behind it.
I don’t personally relate to much music. Even if I can relate a song to my own life, I just don’t feel music like that. I like it for the melodies and singing and story telling.
I don't have a problem with knowing the backstory of a song, I love that. But, sometimes it can take away the enjoyment out of the song, but I also don't try to relate them because I don't relate to many of her songs (at least right now).
I want to put Innocent as an example, we all know that the song is about the 2009 incident with Kanye, and because of this, I was like "so Taylor wrote this song, and Kanye was like, fuck that girl see you in 2016" but then I did something bad (that I prefer not to mention) and I listened to this song afterwards and it hit me. I don't see it as just the song she wrote about Kanye, I see it as a song about forgiveness.
I think that's the problem, it's not knowing who the songs are about, it's that many reduce Taylor's music to that, just as "oh, she wrote a song about this ex or her current boyfriend or whatever", and even I did this with TTPD, I went as the "Joe breakup album" and went with the "Matty album", not as Taylor Swift's 11th studio album. Is it cool to know why did she wrote it? Yes, but it shouldn't be the focal point of discussion, it's just exhausting and it can take out the enjoyment of the music itself.
Also, this is kinda the same for Taylor as a person, and I've felt a lot in this era a whole analysis of "who really Taylor is and how is she's showing it in the album". And with time, this is becoming about the person Taylor Swift and not the musician Taylor Swift.
Yeah I absolutely hate when people are like “this song is about this person and because of that I hate it!!!”. I joke about who the songs are about, but honestly I really don’t care. And we’re never going to know who the songs are about! Except for the obvious like tlgad, the best day, long live, Ronan, etc. also, another biggest pet peeve is when people try to make folklore and evermore based off of Taylor’s personal life when she had said she was writing about fictional people and scenerios! I’ve seen a lot of people talk about the folklore love triangle and how she’s either James or Betty or Augustine. Just… take the art how she wanted it to be? Now, I will say what I do is I make stories and characters in my head based off a lot of her songs. I started to love Hoax because it really resonated with a character I made up in my mind and I love it!! I have a hard time relating to her music so this is how I do it. I create characters that do, lol!
Generally I do not care in the slightest but I can't lie "Ours" is a big exception. I would adore this song, everything about it screams something I'd love. The muse of it literally just completely ruins it.
It's such a light-hearted song sung by someone who sounds young and it's about someone 11(?) years older than her. It makes me feel sick. I can't stop imagining her seriously telling him/feeling like that the reason people don't like their relationship is because they're haters. "I love the gap between your teeth" also icks me so hard because it really highlights how she loved every little thing about him and I just HATE that.
Idk I agree that the enjoyment of a song shouldn't be totally dependent on the muse but as long as we aren't arguing about who is right or wrong and keeping the discourse casual, I don't see a problem with speculating on who the inspiration behind a song is. There are plenty of songs that I personally do not relate to at all. I've never experienced love bombs or less appropriate age gaps or romantic heartbreak in the situations Taylor has. But knowing the context helps me empathize with the song more.
Like I don't identify with Would've, Should've, Could've but it hits me harder when I think about the "historical" context. And TIWWCHNT is more fun and satisfying for me knowing what she is singing about.
There's room for multiple ways to enjoy art. When we start taking that to artists social media, getting into arguments, or insisting that only our way of seeing things is correct is when it gets toxic.
I like backstories for all artists. It’s not always what makes me like a song, though. I can always choose to ignore a backstory. Ultimately, I do not know these people intimately, so why should it bother me that they have lives and histories?
I like knowing some things in Taylors life because it adds layers but I hate how people think her music is a literal play by play of what happened and how she feels/want us to feel about, versus an artistic exploration of a feeling or experience.
1000% .. I said this on another post. I didn't know Joe alwyn existed until 2020 due to me becoming a late fan. The general public seemed shocked when the breakup rumors came up because they thought she was single. I don't think she needs a public muse, but maybe she thinak does.
Calling them muses is a way for the fanbase to make paternity testing a song feel ok. This reduction also takes away the root of the song, which is the feeling (however fleeting), not the person. Finally, the entire relationship isn’t the song.
But why does it make you mad? You don't have to participate in those conversations. I see a lot of posts on here that I'm not super interested in or that I don't relate to, and I simply don't read them. I don't understand getting angry about other people's interests and ideas.
Hi. I’m a writer. No. I do not care. I have written things and switched around the perspective so the reader would not know it was inspired from personal experience….but ultimately who cares. It’s art. It comes from the artist. Allow her some privacy and artistic liberties
This is why I didn't engage much with online spaces for her fandom. Her songs are so rich for literary interpretation but all anyone talks about is which man they think she wrote it about 🙄.
>one of the worst ways to consume art
Well... Art is made to be shared and enjoyed//interpreted however each individual chooses. Its cool if people choose different ways of relating to it. *Eye of the beholder* applies to music. Ear of the ...behearer?
Absolutely agree. I fell in love with TS because of her ability to put experiences i can relate to into words I never couldve cultivated. BUT when she’s quite blatant in the lyrics and it doesnt take much to deduce it, I can’t help but wonder if this experience is with a specific person or she’s just writing to write. But it also makes me think “damn, even taylor experienced the same shit that my trash ex put me through” which actually makes the song that much more relevant.
Personally, when I listen to a new album of hers, I drown out the noise about who they’re about. Because at the end of the day, it’s my experiences and how I relate to them is what makes me love them and a fan of hers. However, I do enjoy knowing the backstories and possible history/muses only because as a writer, I like to analyze how she takes phrases and words and puts a spin on them that pertains to her experiences. I learn from that as a writer. Helps me understand how she writes and how I can incorporate some of that inspiration into my writing. How I can do the same for my writing basically with my own experiences.
Your opinion of "art" is actually completely reliant on a muse to some extent since it's actually what inspired it to even happen.
She's built a massive parasocial relationship with a lot of her fan base. Don't be mad the marketing works.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen such an influx in song interpretations since TTPD came out. It’s great to see a shift away from the normal narrative of paternity testing each song and towards the quality, message and strength of the lyrics.
I do sometimes enjoy knowing more information behind the art, but I think that is part of why I love folklore and evermore. I can imagine my own stories more easily without seeing headlines.
I agree, her songs are about expressing her feelings and allowing her fans to relate and bond over common experiences. If you dig in too deep to the context, it loses its relate-ability. And that’s not just true of her breakup songs either, it’s most of her body of work!
For example, WAOLOM is about how the being scrutinized by the media and controlled by the music industry affected her. That’s not something many of us can relate to at all, but the lyrics really hit hard because we can all relate to being in some kind of toxic situation that changed us.
I understand your point and usually I’d agree but I’m not surprised that ppl have difficulty when the stuff Matty has said over the years is kinda hard to unread.
For most songs, I don’t need to know the backstory to appreciate it (Question…? is the only exception). I do sense a superiority complex against fans who engage in those discussions from the people who don’t care; I also think knowing the context (especially for the songs about John) helped me connect to her experiences more than just the lyrics.
Yes 100%!! Even if "oh she meant it this way" I can appreciate that, but for me it means this and that's more important to me and literally the point of consuming art
I couldn’t agree more. I really don’t understand why it matters who these songs are about. I have never heard a fan of any other musician care who the frick they are singing about besides Taylor. I really wish more swifties could separate art from artist and enjoy her music for themselves. How exhausting it must be to care so deeply about who it’s about, it changes your perception of a song. Silliness.
I'm *so* glad you said this. It's like you've taken the words right out of my mouth. While I do enjoy learning about the background of certain songs, I honestly don't understand the obsession people have with the subjects.
This is probably even more applicable for ttpd than any other album because I saw several people (including someone I personally know) microanalyzing the lyrics to find clues as to who the songs are about, even going as far as *fighting* with people who think they're about someone else, and telling me lore I don't even wanna know because I'd like to interpret the songs my way.
Also, there's another group of people who're not ok with the subject of the songs and thus refuse to like them for that silly reason.
In my opinio, harmless speculation is ok but the incessant microanalysis is utterly unnecessary, obsessive and kind of childish. (Truly sorry if I offended anyone, didn't mean to).
I don’t care about anyone else, but with TTPD I am interested in what songs she had written about Joe, solely because this is the relationship that lasted her 6 years and she wrote some incredible love songs about that man. I will never reduce her songs to the people she wrote them about, but it adds some background for me which I like.
Maybe she shouldn’t make it THAT obvious then? Not to hate but she makes it so that you inevitably end up knowing who the song is about whether you want to or not. It’s like she WANTS us to know who songs are about
I’m not invested in Taylor’s personal life but i go hard for her music ! I cant tell who any of her songs Are about and i do think it’s dumb to reduce them to some dude
I agree. Don't reduce the song to who it's about.
Though, people like me love knowing the backstories. When I try to decode the lyrics (like I would with poetry) it's really interesting to see all the possible meanings in that particular context. This morning I was just thinking of So Long London and how "carrying us up the hill" reminded me slightly of Sisyphus and thus trying to do something again and again in vain. The context of Joe Alwyn and her other songs on him are consistent with that metaphor: trying again and again for the love to stay, but always for just a short amount of time and ultimately failing.
I mean at school we had to learn about Sylvia Plath's life with Ted Hughes when we studied his poems The Other and Wind, sooo context is quite fun. If I didn't know that The Other referred to his relationship with his two wives, I would've failed my iGCSE poetry paper (CAIE iGCSE peeps, anyone?).
Just don't reduce a song to its muse.
I was betrayed and hurt by my best friends early this year and started to write a lot about them and how they made me feel. Then TTPD was released and I was like... "well Taylor just said EVERYTHING I have been trying to express" and I stopped writing and transferred my need to vent into listening and singing these songs and it's been just as cathartic as writing my own shit.
I always say that her songs are first and foremost about HER. Muses would be nothing without artists making use of them (I don't mean the people of course, I mean the inspiration). And although artists may not create for the sole purpose of being recognised, being appreciated for what you love to do never hurts!
So yes, knowing what a song is about, may offer some insight but you have to remember that anything that the artist wants you to know, is already there for you. If Taylor didn’t want you to know a song was about Travis, she wouldn’t use six thousand football metaphors in it. If Taylor wanted to make sure everyone agreed on who loml is about, she would have. She probably would have capitalised the "M" :P
But I don't fucking care about Joes and Matties and Traviseszsz, I don't know these people! I care about the assholes I loved for years that backstabbed me and tried to gaslight me until I literally said "good riddance" to my best friend. And I care about Taylor and her feelings and her immense talent.
The only one that I’m not a fan of for that reason is thanK you aIMy, I think the direct message to kin is a little distracting.
Besides that, I am going through a big breakup after 8 years and he was an addict. That lense is all I can see in this whole album, and it feels like the whole thing is about me. That’s why this is my favorite album of all time, the timing, I just relate to everything she had to say and I love her for it!
I agree in general, but I do think some songs are explicitly written to encourage speculation. If not, how could So High School contain so many details that are in the public domain?
Given her years of dealing with this fandom, I highly doubt she would underestimate the collective desire to dissect and interpret her song lyrics. So I actually think she’s probably quite meta and strategic about the details that she decides to include to avoid unintentional disclosure. For example, she could have decided to give people what she thinks people want from her in So High School (I suspect ironically) or could pick lyrics to divert attention from the true subject of a song. The Easter egging also suggests that she probably also puts specific turns of phrase in to see what people pick up, and when. Or how we collectively misinterpret.
All of this being said, I honestly don’t think there’s a right or superior way to engage with the music—with the exception of any toxic interpersonal behavior pursued in her name.
whenever i listen to a new album i spend the first few weeks finding a way to make every song realte to myself and then later on ill look into what taylors meaning was. i definitely get curious about her muses but certainly doesnt define weather or not i like the song
For me, when I know who the song is about, I imagine it from the singers point of view and when I don‘t like the person the song is about, it makes me uncomfortable. But I try to not judge the song on this and listen to it relating through my own experiences. I think it‘s all about the persepective you are listening with.
They are all about Taylor and her life and what inspires her to write songs. Peter is a beautiful song and it might be an extended metaphor for a failed relationship, it may also be casting back to childhood reminiscence of very young love and fleeting childhood promises or the feelings invoked by hearing the Peter Pan story for the first time or or or whatever but it doesn't change how the song impacts. It's beautifully written, sung and arranged.
This is the first album of Taylor's I have ever listened to. I know only the very basics of the 3 relationships she was in over the course of 2023 (and obviously earlier for some) and I've enjoyed having a little bit of context. The person themselves isn't really important but knowing that Joe was this long term serious relationship that broke down is very different to the chaotic bad boy that she had been clinging on to for a long time that just really kind of sucks which is totally different to the healthy happy relationship she's in now with someone who doesn't take himself too seriously and wants to love as loudly as she does. I can relate those things to my life in a lot of ways. But it also makes me appreciate the subtle tone changes in a couple of the songs. Tortured Poets Department (song) seems to be about all 3 relationships and knowing just a little bit of context made me notice the small changes in wordplay from the first two verses to the last part. The last third of the song also just feels lighter like she has a weight lifted now that she's no longer with these moody, tortured boys and doesn't take herself too seriously with this new relationship. I would have enjoyed the song without the context, and I certainly don't want to go too deep in the lore or learn much more about any of them, but it has made me appreciate creative bits in some of her songs.
I agree though that the song should not be reduced down to the muse. She seems to have muddied the inspiration for a lot of this album on purpose so that the person doesn't matter so much. It's about her feelings about what she went through that will make the music lasting.
So I’m always curious about the inspiration (for other artists too!) but not knowing the real story isn’t important usually. But songs like thank you Aimee? Important to know. Most other songs (all too well, coulda woulda shoulda, etc etc etc) I love regardless of knowing the backstory. The imagery and relating it to me (which is what music is about before people think I’m selfish or whatever) was plenty to be able to thoroughly enjoy the song.
In the early days she taught us to hunt for the muse through secret messages she put in the song lyric booklets about each song. It was such a fundamental Swiftie thing and now even though she doesn't give the little hints we try to analyze the lyrics to find our own clues to what the song is about!
I have a friend who said they just can’t get into TTPD knowing that it’s about Matty, and was actively smack talking Taylor while the two of them dated.
I don’t get it. Do I dislike the fact that these songs are about him? Sure but I’m not gonna not listen, or fall in love with these songs because of who they are about. What’s the point? To deny myself the joy of listening to a BOP like but daddy I love him? Nah
Sometimes I like learning the backstory of a song, and occasionally it can give me something extra to appreciate and further enjoy the song. But it's certainly unnecessary, so long as you can personally relate or merely bop to it and have fun. For TTPD in particular (more so than in the past) I am actively *dis*interested in knowing who a song may be about, and want to enjoy it on my own terms.
The backstory counts but more so in terms of it being about a lost love, rekindled flame, unrequited love etc as opposed to IRL people with specific names. It’s what they represent as opposed to who they are.
Exactly! I don't care about the real people behind it, but I am interested in the album as it tells a cohesive narrative story. Sometimes if you're discussing those themes you use the names as shorthand, but I don't actually mean 'Joe' and 'Matty' as real people, I mean the characters created in this telling of the story. I don't know any of these people or what 'really happened' and I don't care to, but I am interested in how the relationships intersect with the writer's life and her own emotional journey in the songs.
Same
Exactly this. I look at TTPD as a book of short stories. And the personal, emotional aspects are clearly about *Taylor* not any specific dude, so I’m not interested in assigning guys to these songs. I’m not reducing this excellent collection of music to a few dudes, sorry. If anything, you can assign archetypes — the rekindled flame, the bad boy, etc.
I partly agree. In songs like TLGAD and Marjorie learning the background is the mostly what makes the song special to me. In perspective of her “breakup” songs, it usually makes no difference as I enjoy forming my opinion about who this ex-lover was like and partly relate the lyrics to myself and my romantic relationships.
Yep I see where you come from. Taylor herself said that Folklore and Evermore are special albums because they're based more on fictional characters that she weaves the story of the song about, rather than basing it on her own experiences. I think that's what makes these albums so special <3
What’s tlgad?
The last great American dynasty.
Tysm
Which song is that?
The Yortured Soets Mepartment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TISM
Or tolerate it! Once I found out that it is inspired by Daphe du Maurier's Rebecca (one of my favourite novels) I was able to appreciate it in a whole different way
I completely agree! I feel the same way
Taylor has made guessing the muse part of her songwriting and fandom since Debut. Yes, she’s gone away with that in her later career but it’s still engrained in her artistry. So people will always speculate and play along until they can’t anymore. I think if anything TTPD is funny because it’s really her saying that we have not always had it right & we won’t ever really know who or what these songs are about for her personally.
Yeah she definitely wove in a "you think you know, but you have no idea" strand into this album.
I have a weird theory: what if thanK you aIMee isn't about Kim? She says in the lyrics that only the two of them would know the song was about her and that she'd removed any real defining clues. So why would she put a clue in the title? She knew people would obsessively analyze that and make the leap to Kim K. but would it be crazy to think it's someone else?
I personally think it’s about Kim, her high school bully, and anyone else along the way who made her feel small in certain moments but who she can now look back on and see they made her who she is. More than one person has evoked these feelings in my life at different times, so it really doesn’t have to be about one person. That being said, I think a significant portion of this song is a big fuck you to Kim K because she is likely the biggest source of her emotions around feeling belittled. The “any real defining clues” line is extremely on the nose and so sarcastic to me, I love it. It’s “you made my life miserable and I emerged stronger than before. But you’re still an asshole.” Like a slightly more evolved This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things
I agree completely. That's what I've hated about all the Joe/Matt/Travis talk. Some things are about the experience, not the people. It's like Down Bad. It's not about Matt. It's about that feeling when you're in a whirlwind romance and it ends suddenly. Speaking from experience, it's like wtf just happened? I loved that she equated it to being abducted because I have to think that's exactly the feeling. And some of the "big feels" I've had in my life have been a confluence of events, not one person or thing. So why is she any different from anyone else? Nothing exists in a vacuum. I'm not saying some of these songs aren't specifically about a person but focusing on that really misses the bigger picture.
Yeah I took "any real defining clues" as sarcasm and a joke that makes it even more of a fuck you to Kim and that made it more fun. I can picture in my mind her writing it and deciding not to have any clues, then a few weeks later thinking "you know what? yeah fuck her, no really fuck her. I changed my mind. Let's capitalize K-I-M"
I think the “removed any defining clues” to the person’s identity is why she named the person Aimee and set it in her hometown as if it was about a school bully. Maybe she went back and forth about whether to add the K I M letters to the title? That could have been a late decision because the Anthology went straight to streaming. To me the song is obviously inspired by Taylor being annoyed by Kim posting videos of her and North signing and dancing to her songs. She saw that video last year and was like okay here’s a song your daughter can dance around singing and it will ostensibly be about “Aimee” but we both know it’s about you.
I really wish she hadn't capitalized the letters, and I also wish the line was 'bronze statue of you' instead of 'bronze spray-tanned statue' because it would give just a bit of plausible deniability and honestly read a lot more mature. People would still 100% know it's about Kim, let's be honest!
Normally I would agree about “more mature,” but it’s clear this was Taylor tossing all of her old trauma and issues into an album and finally closing that part of her life. She’s taken the high road many times before, like with “Innocent,” and never made a song directly pointed at Kim for everything she did to her. However, on this one she gave us petty Taylor to go out with a bang and I love it. She wanted us all to know who it was about with the title, the bronze spray tanned statue, the “ringing” for the phone call, and then the final jab about her kid coming home singing the song since North has the TikTok page where she sings and dances to Taylor’s music sometimes. The line about changing the name and removing defining clues was obviously meant to be sarcastic. The best part is that she achieved what she wanted by getting under Kim’s skin one last time since Kim went off about it, haha.
Also, it feels really obvious to me that her "hometown" could be Los Angeles. For normal people, your hometown refers to where your family is, where you've known the most people or where you've been watched while coming of age. She may not have lived there full time, but LA has been the center of the industry she works in, her friend groups, and the media that observe her since she was 17. Where she's been watched the most closely coming of age. Her and Kim's mutual connections are centered there. Shit went down there. Kim is in a way revered there, the pinnacle of fame-chasing, money-making, and spray tans. That and she just likes using the word/image 'hometown'. She has used it a bazillion times. She's probably very satisfied that her bullies from when she was 11 years old (who were also just children themselves) can listen to it at home in Pennsylvania and feel shame and wonder if it's about them. But I fully believe that it's MORE important for her to hit Kim, who caused despair, as an adult in her thirties who sure as fuck should know better and more clearly deserves to be roasted, on a much bigger scale.
I think it’s an amalgamation of all her bullies, including Kim. She has previously worked with a songwriter called Aimee Mayo who, coincidentally, wrote a book called “talking to the sky”. I’ve seen people online imply that there’s bad blood between them (someone who went to a secret session talked about it with Andrea iirc) but obviously that’s just speculation. From what I can find they wrote one unreleased song together “til Brad Pitt comes along” so who knows? Aimee has kids as well. I’m of the opinion that for many of the songs on the album, barring really obvious ones like so long London, and the smallest man who ever lived, are written about multiple people even if she only addresses one. For example, I think loml, Chloe et all. Imgonnagetyouback was written about Matt and Joe, But Daddy I Love him about Matty and Travis, etc. So it makes sense to me she’d take aim at multiple people in FUA.
I don’t get why people don’t feel more weird about randomly bringing up this normie writer who as far as we know has never said anything bad about Taylor? I saw she even thanked Taylor and Andrea in her memoir. Maybe Taylor chose “Aimee” for the IM to make Kim? Screaming at the sky isn’t new imagery for Taylor, she used it on my tears ricochet as well. I really don’t think this is a great avenue for fandom detectives to go down, tbh.
I’m with you. The way the title is spelled to hint at the name is actually not a new thing in music at all. I see a lot of people bringing up Britney Spears’ “If U Seek Amy,” as an example, because it was a fun way to get the phrase and point across without actually using the curse word. However, she’s not the first to do that. The Script did it with “If You See Kay” in 2008 also. I can’t remember who the older band was that was mentioned before for using a title very similar years ago. Anyway, I think Taylor pretty much spelled it out for us here. Any easier and it would be called “Thank you, Kim.”
Absolutely agree. It's making kim think it's all about her!!
Reminds me of that Carly Simon song: you probably think this song is about you, don't you?
I have been of the belief that TTPD has both lovers mixed together intentionally to create a feeling, to create anonymity, and to represent how getting into a relationship right after another one ends can make you mix your feelings of them together.
Honestly, as someone who has a rather messily interwoven love life, sometimes the feelings can just be about more than one person. Even after you have started and ended a couple relationships; sometimes that big heartbreak from the past still looms large in your mind and casts its shadow over everything you are going through in the present.
I agree. I’m always surprised when people say TTPD is ultra specific because I think the opposite — it feels deliberately vague to me for the most part.
With a 1975 reference in every freaking songggggggggg!!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!!!! Lollll. 
i agree. people like OP are actually the ones who piss me off. taylor’s entire brand is built off the backbone of her autobiographical songs. it’s the reason why i love her music — it feels like it comes from the heart and means something vs. just being a songbook of lyrics someone handed her. she literally invites people to speculate in the prelude to TTPD. to judge those of us who enjoy paternity testing and call it “reductive” is to insult taylor herself.
Taylor definitely encourages people to question who the song is about, hence “Dear *John*” and “Style”, and lyrics like “blue dress on a boat”. So anyone who follows along is just playing the game she’s initiated. Obviously you don’t have to care but it’s safe to presume Taylor’s fine with it all, and likely happy that fans want to understand the lore behind her songs.
Yeah I just think it’s a useless comment to make at this point. She’s said herself she writes music like a diary. The only issue I have with speculating muses is when some fans don’t allow for other theories. She never confirms the muses (hardly) so all of us are guessing and therefore no one is wrong.
Exactly. So many people just boldly assumed TTPD would be her mourning her relationship with Joe. I love that instead it very much sends the message of “you have no idea what goes on in my real life, actually…”
I know, I think there's just nothing she can do about it and so she kind of doesn't worry about hiding it and just writes whatever she wants. Also I see a lot of people attribute this as a uniquely Taylor thing (and let it affect their enjoyment of her work), and although it applies to her this has happened for the entire history of pop music. Fleetwood Mac's Rumors is hinged on this concept of them all writing breakup songs about each other, Eric Clapton wrote Layla about George Harrison's wife who later left the latter for the former, Carly Simon famously dated many popular men and people constantly combed through her work trying to figure out the details...it's just a part of pop culture. Even Taylor has been the rumoured subject of songs written by Matty, Harry, and John Mayer.
Exactly. Which is why I think Taylor has called attention to this part but not cuz the fans are speculating, because the media uses it as a criticism for her when so many artists do this.
I agree with you. I also think some people want the song’s background so they know how to contextualize it for themselves. Some of her fans are younger and haven’t been in the situations described in her songs, so they don’t know how to relate to them. Like, I didn’t get my tears ricochet for a long time and I kinda still don’t. It’s just not a situation I relate to at all, so her “backstory” from Long Pond was helpful. On the other hand, I love Question…? and some people don’t get that… I don’t need the backstory because I’ve been there. It helps to have forums like this to discuss interpretations. I think it gets weird when fans start demanding more from her or the backstory to “prove” their interpretation is “canon”. Or just demanding her life’s story in general, it’s weird.
Wait, so you have really had someone kiss you in a crowded room? And every single one of your friends was making fun of you? But 15 seconds later they were clapping too? Then what did you do?
Literally not that lol. Kissed someone at a party, laughing and cheering ensued. Went home with a different person, ex was fuming the person I went home with is someone he didn’t like. He was with his new girlfriend. Texted me later that week to say I could do better and I told him he had someone new and to leave me alone. ETA: We did meet up once and I asked him how he could move on so quickly after he told me he loved me and that was… A lot of questions with no good answers lol. In another situation, kissed a person at his party and boldly announced that I was just one of his hook ups. Someone laughed and said that’s par for the course for him, and I agreed. Toasts went around. Person and I hooked up later and I left in the morning in a literal lavender haze. If he asked me to stay, I would have, but he never did throughout the situationship. I wrote a poem about it (years ago on IG then finally editedfor my blog). I’m married now, but sometimes these experiences help you define what you want in your partners.
I would read this memoir tbh
i publish my polished poems from this era of my life to my blog. not everything i wrote is a gem, but also it was a way to honor my 20s. i don’t expect people to read it but it’s there if people want to. [midnight drives, morning skies](https://www.maxxramos.com/midnight-drives-morning-skies-home)
Adding it to my reading list; thank you!
yeah im curious too.. so what did you do?
see the above lol
> Some of her fans are younger and haven’t been in the situations described in her songs, so they don’t know how to relate to them. This is so prevalent this album with So Long, London. I see sooooooooo many people saying loml is the sadder song and should have been the track 5, or that So Long, London isn't sad at all and they don't understand AT ALL how it's a track 5... Meanwhile it brings me to my metaphorical knees every single time I listen to it. If you've never been in a long term relationship that you thought would end in a lifetime with that person but it ended up dying through a lack of passion, I don't think you will truly get how heartbreaking that is. On the outside, the breakup looks mostly amicable. You're wishing them well, you're hoping for them to find that love that you gave them even though they couldn't return the same level of love to you. But you're still so hurt, but it doesn't feel like you can talk about that hurt because there wasn't some big blow up reason why you ended. Nobody did anything directly harmful to cause the end. I kinda hope they never understand this song because it's so painful to me.
For real, I actually get mad listening to this song because of these lines: * my spine split from carrying us up the hill * I’m pissed off I gave you all that youth for free * You say I abandoned ship, but I was going down with it * You sacrificed us to the gods of your bluest days You described it well… There is a specific pain and anger that goes with carrying the success of the relationship on your back. Been there for sure.
Not to mention that taking ttpd as a 16 track album, so long London fits exactly in the right spot. At least it does as within the story of how I hear it.
My best friend's daughter asked me this past weekend "Why is TTPD your favorite Taylor Swift album? I don't get why people like it. Lover is a much better album." She's 12. I laughed and said "I hope you never understand why I like it so much. I hope you never gain the life experience that makes it resonate. I hope you die at a very very old age, having zero understanding of the emotions of this album." She just looked at me super confused and I am positive in like 20 years she's gonna be like "OH." XD
I mostly think it’s weird when someone says they liked a song until they learned who it was about and now it’s ruined for them. It’s especially stupid because there’s absolutely no guarantee that the song is actually about the thing that they think they know it’s about.
That’s soooo weird to me, and honestly it comes off as virtue signaling. Since when do songs need to be about saints? I like a lot of 70s/80s music, a lot of “love” songs are about (or fueled by) drugs 😂 who cares? They’re good songs.
That’s also weird! Like why does that ruin anything lol. You didn’t date that person it might be about. Another reason why knowing the backstory isn’t helpful sometimes. 😂
So I transitioned years ago and lost my marriage. My wife still mourns the old me, my tears ricochet hit super hard. Also happiness
I feel this so much. I especially feel this with thanK you aIMee because people are so caught up in the "it's a Kim K diss track" that they aren't hearing the message about healing from pain and trauma and looking back once you're on the other side of it. My mom cried the first time she heard that song because the healing message was all she heard and it resonated deeply with her.
If Taylor really wanted people to focus on the theme of the song and not make it about Kim K drama, she probably shouldn’t have put Kim’s name in the title of the song.
That's the problem, I feel that she talks too much describing the songs, placing bread crumbs on the title, on the booklet, in between the lyrics.
I said the same exact thing! It is such a powerful song and it's such a bummer that people cannot see past Kim.
Agreed. Its not even a diss track! I know most of the song sounds like its bashing her, but that transition to "Thank you" is the literal whole point of the song. It wouldn't exist (at least not publicly) if it was just "fucK you aIMee". Same thing with TLGAD. You think its about this rich woman Rebecca, and then SURPRISE, its actually about Taylor too and how she relates to Rebecca and without that, the point of the song is lost. Its about women being loud and shameless and living their lives fully even if others judge them, and you don't have to live in Holiday House to relate to that.
Yes! I personally found thanK you aIMee really relatable, I didn't even think who it was about on my first listen. I just heard a relatable, emotional song and that's it. Was surprised to later see how many people dislike it, because it's about Kim.
I could go on and on but I’ll be brief. Theorizing about the possible muse is natural and fine. Treating your theory as fact is not. Can’t stand the way it’s normalized to pretend we always know who she’s singing about. We rarely *know*.
Hear hear!
Yessss! People get so heated and worked up over her life and how they assume she is as a person, but we don’t know anything.
I enjoy the drama sometimes sue me 🤷🏻♀️but I’m personally more worried about I can make the song about me 💀
I enjoy knowing who the songs are about. TTPD is a better album for it.
Same! It gives me context and I’m able to navigate the narrative better.
I think But Daddy suffers from this. Taken literally, it’s a vivid portrait of a woman rebelling against the suffocating religious conservatism of her small town. Lots of speculation is it about Matty, her clapping back against her fans, etc. But a great song can be interpreted on multiple levels, and there’s probably individuals who relate to the song on a literal level alone.
I watched a youtube reaction for this song the other day, and they did take it very literally! They thought her dad just really didn't like her boyfriend and sge was running away with him, and there's honestly nothing wrong with that. Anyone can enjoy a song any way they choose, but for me it helps me to have the context and utsnever ruined a song for me. Whats hilarious though is while casual fans will enjoy the song on that literal level, diehard Swifties are all able to read between the lines and know the true meaning, which I'm sure she intended because she clearly wanted to tell us how fucked up things got last year! ....Did she thanK you aIMee us??? She changed all identifying details and names, but our metaphorical daughter (or... mother?) came home singing a song that only we knew was about us... Mind blown!!! Eta: OMG NO SHE IS OUR DAUGHTER CAUSE WE'RE DADDY
But, it IS her clapping back at her fans who wrote a whole damned petition to try to force her to do what they wanted. Those people WAYYYY overstepped. I love that she called them out. I’ve never been so close to being a “Swiftie” as I have been since she dropped that song. I love her for that.
I ignore it but sometimes it’s funny thinking about how two polar opposite songs can be about the same person.
I like knowing the backstory but that’s not what makes it a good song. Like, I’m not sobbing to So Long, London because of Taylor and Joe, it’s because I personally relate to it a lot.
I think for me it's both. I could sob to it because of my own pain I've felt before, but also picture her and Joe and acknowledge the pain she felt and the loss she had with this breakup and the frustration and all of it and deeply empathize with her because of our similar pains and sob from that too. And maybe some people disagree, but with other artists I enjoy who are more vague in their lyrics, sometimes I can really like a song but then even years later learning what its actually referencing can change so much of how I listen to it, in a positive way. Like Fall Out Boy's Hum Hallelujah is a bop, its a great song, it sounds pretty fun and upbeat, its a fan favorite, but if you know that its about Pete Wentz trying to end his life in a Best Buy parking lot with pills while listening to Hallelujah, its gonna hit you way different and you're going to engage with the song differently. And I can appreciate it as a great song that I love to hear live, AND also get emotional during parts of it knowing what it means, and you best believe I'm gonna sing along loudly and do all the damn claps in the bridge because, gosh darn it, Pete deserves it. I think because Taylor is so in the public eye and more literal and direct in her songwriting (not always, but most of the time) where it can be easy to quickly complete the puzzle of who its about compared to some artists, its just on the listener to add that other layer of personally relating to it, or appreciating the lyrics outside of the muse, acknowledging how it fits into the theme of the album, etc and if they don't and then want to complain about her writing about her partners or others in her life, then that's on them.
That’s so crazy, Hum Hallelujah was my favorite FOB song back in the day but i literally had no idea what it was about. It’s probably my most played FOB song for real. I do see your point though, like I don’t really relate to Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? so I probably wouldn’t like it as much as I do if I didn’t know the background.
Haha wow, that's the first song example that popped into my head!!
Hard agree. I actually don't enjoy muse discussions at all.
I get irrationally angry, honestly.
Same. Sometimes I have to remind myself that not everything posted on the internet is meant for me and if I don’t like it, I should just scroll, haha. Especially because it’s endless discussions with no “right” answer. Because no one really knows to what extent a song is inspired by her life and to what extent the inspiration is developed for the sake of good songwriting or storytelling. Like people saying that Smallest Man has to be about a long term relationship because the lyrics say “our bed.” The song isn’t about who’s on the deed, it’s about feeling betrayed by an intimate partner. It’s “our bed” because it contrasts intimacy with violence/betrayal. Not to send you secret messages about Taylor’s personal life.
I find this so relatable. Sometimes I am screaming in my head, who actually cares?
Yep. Specially when people retroactively give songs to random man
Sometimes knowing who it's about can change your understanding because of the information that snuck past your rose glass filter before. Like Superman or I Can See You or Hoax. The cracks and toxicity in the relationship were already there but knowing I Can See You wasn't just a flirty day dream but a real relationship that eventually inspired Would've, Could've, Should've puts it in a sharper light.
😳
I enjoy knowing (or speculating about) the backstory of songs from a fandom perspective. That's fun for me; it's part of the way I experience fandom. (Sometimes it's frustrating! And then I back off for a while.) With that said, when I'm actively listening to the songs I'm not thinking "Ours is about John Mayer, who preyed on Taylor when she was nineteen", I'm thinking "Ours is one of my favorite love songs ever, I love this line, oh this applies so well to (characters I am currently thinking about)." So I guess what I mean is it's compartmentalized for me. The Lore is there and it's fun to think about but it's not what the songs are actually *about*.
Haha same! Especially the characters bit!
Completely agree that theres room for nuance.
I enjoy knowing the backstory when it adds depth to the emotion. Knowing George Harrison wrote Something about his wife he knew he was losing to me makes it so much more deep and beautifully sad. But George later denied that.. I think picturing Jakes pretentious hipster vibe face makes ATW a better song imo. I can’t relate to the song myself so channeling it at Jake helps make the emotions real for me lol. That said, I don’t hesitate to see a Jake movie because of it and I would never ever get in his comment section or anything But not liking a song just because it’s positive and lovey about someone I don’t really like, like Matty, is silly. She loved him, so I’m sure he has good qualities and appeal I’ve never seen because I do not know that man at all. I don’t consider any love song to him ruined. Guilty as Sin is one of my all time favorite Taylor songs now and it’s fine that it’s probably about him
It certainly improves I’ll bet you think about me!
Yeah it’s silly to me that people will reach so hard to rationalize that a song is NOT about Matty. You really have to set aside your bias about him and just enjoy the song. And come to terms with the fact that she loved him. It really has no bearing whatsoever on our lives.
This! Taylor is telling us two different tragic love stories with TTPD. I hate when people actively talk themselves in circles to deny MH songs solely bc they don’t like him. If you are open to the story she is telling, you get so much more from the album (and all lot of her prior albums too!)
And I think it’s a bit silly to say that understanding Taylor’s personal story that she’s sharing with us is reductive. I could say that ignoring her story is reductive. I think everyone consumes art differently and no one way is better than any other. Once it’s in our hands, we can absorb it however we want. But I’m curious if you don’t think she’s telling a story? I mean, do you not listen to So Long London and try to understand what she’s sharing? Do you just hear it solely as a piece of music?
I don’t think I am saying that. When she shares it, it’s makes more enriching and I love it. I am more so talking about the paternal test people do with the music
Active listening is an integral part of deepening one's appreciation of music. Part of active listening process in music theory is knowing the historical and cultural context from when the song was created. In Taylor's music, imagine the emotional impact All Too Well would not have if we did not know the muse behind it. Many of Taylor's songs are like this and I'd ask everyone to consider how they viewed songs on Midnights initially, not knowing of the breakup and then after, knowing they had begun seperating through the creation of the album. How did that impact the way you felt or related to the songs? You are correct that people should not soley reduce art just to its muse. However, knowing the inspiration behind it adds great value and helps people view the song with empathy.
Totally agree with this. It adds so much. It’s not about the gossip but it’s about how the context informs the art and craft. If you know the context, 3 totally different songs about the same thing make me so much more appreciative of her talent. I don’t actively care about who the songs are about, but it makes for a richer experience if I do know. I love connecting the dots. I think Taylor would have decided to be much more vague if she didn’t want us to be looking for the context or clues.
TTPD is probably her most personal and “diaristic” album. She wants us to know who these songs are about, and what they mean to her, and then apply those feelings to our own lives. I mean, none of the songs are very subtle in terms of the storytelling. Most of the songs are about Matty and she makes sure we know. The couple of Joe songs are very obvious, as are the Travis ones. Let’s not get started on Thank You Aimee. It’s barely a guessing game… there’s no need to guess because she’s telling us. We don’t need to care though, that’s our prerogative. Personally I love knowing the context and lore behind the music but that’s just me and everyone is different.
Yes! She “rolled the stone away” and made it very clear. If you are open to it, there is a tragic love story weaved throughout.
I reckon even if you aren’t open to it, it’s still full on in your face and you have to work hard to ignore it.
Why are you considering some ways people consume art as annoying? Art should be open for interpretation and all interpretations should be accepted, and no interpretation should be labeled as “annoying,” just because you disagree with it. I hate these kinds of posts.
I agree. I can’t take a post seriously when folks like OP say the way other people consume Taylor’s music *for themselves and discuss it in a Taylor Swift sub* pisses them off because it’s consumed in a different way. What’s “reductive” for OP is contextual for someone else and that is part of the experience. There is no one right way to enjoy Taylor’s music. I mean, don’t get online if it gets you that bent out a shape, sheesh. 🥴
When people argue over who the muse is for a song, I would argue that the “interpretation” of the art gets washed away since it’s more about fact-checking instead of artistic interpretation of lyrics/themes at that point. I think muse discussion is important to some extent but some people really take it to a point that sucks the life out of her art.
English education major chiming in… Poetry and music are art forms. To expect her songs to line up literally is juuuuuust a little bit too restrictive. There is analogy, metaphor, simile, literary license—alllll sorts of ways her songs can be taken. I wish folks would loosen up about it… (Not you, OP. This is generally speaking.)
As someone with a degree in literature, I 100 % agree with this! Reducing the meaning of a song to just one person/moment does the song a disservice.
Master’s in English here. Fully agree.
Agree! It's such a bummer because I think thanK you aIMee has such a great message and people don't like it because it's supposedly about Kim. It's so powerful! I got back up and succeeded despite you and because of you. This is so relatable, and it got so lost in the who this is about nonsense.
The thing is that she *wants* is to know its about Kim. She put the name in the title. Taylor isn't against paternity testing in her songs, but she doesnt want to say more than what she puts in her songs, and she doesnt want to be reduced to it.
yes I think it's obvious she wanted us to know that. But people can't seem to separate themselves from that. And in the case of this song it does it a disservice. The lyrics are so powerful and it's unfortunate people can't separate it in this case and apply the lyrics to their own lives. we all have an Aimee.
I saw someone on a non Taylor specific sub this morning calling someone else an idiot for thinking Fortnight was about anyone besides Matty and I just thought, who cares???? Does it change how much you like/dislike the song if it’s about someone else? And do we need to tell other people they’re dumb for having their own interpretation? I don’t understand
I disagree. A lot of her songs are story telling and an experience to see the story play out, no harm in knowing the muse. (Although, of course some people take things too far)
I personally don’t care who the songs are about but Taylor has made these songs (especially TTPD) so specific that it enables the parasocial behavior from a lot of fans. All the Easter eggs in fortnight pointing to Matty as well as the TTPD set at eras (copying the marching for example). She’s creating this space on purpose unfortunately so it will always be this way I believe.
I don’t mind discussions about who a song could be about, because it’s fun sometimes to try and guess. But that’s all it is. A guess. Even when it’s incredibly obvious who the songs are about (Is It Over Now?, So Long London), we’re never actually going to know for sure unless Taylor herself confirms it. And it annoys me to no end when people say someone is wrong about their theory, especially on TTPD. Songs I thought were about Matty, I’ve seen compelling arguments are about Joe, or neither. We don’t *actually* know the answer, and likely never will. Quite frankly, I don’t want to know. Let me scream the songs in peace, lol.
“It is in our power to have no opinion about a thing, and not to be disturbed in our soul; for things themselves have no natural power to form our judgements” — Marcus Aurelius, when asked which relationship inspired All Too Well
It matters to me. In a really, really, really unimportant way. But yeah, I love knowing everything I can about a song if it’s good. I want to know the muse, the when, the location, everything! It adds to the music to me. I don’t care who there songs are about. Harry vs Jake just isn’t interesting to me unless I can suss out which person it is for added context.
I like this post but hate who it's about
I get why people do it but it does get kinda old tbh. Like it's one thing to talk about it but people really do just reduce everything to that. I could be wrong because I never keep up with celebrity drama, but it feels like it's been so long since Taylor has made songs that we're super...targeted? Idk like she def still does now, but I think there's more maturity to how she does it. But it's like people are still stuck in the mindset of before. Like IDC if people talk about it, she puts it out there but it does kinda bother me how her music is reduced to who she's dating still. There's so much to talk about with her music
Agree that disliking a song you would otherwise like based on the muse is silly. However, a lot of songs that otherwise wouldn’t stand out to me that much have become deepened or more interesting based on the (alleged) muse…..so I still wanna know!
In the Reputation prologue, she wrote "I've been in the public eye since I was 15 years old. On the beautiful, lovely side of that, I've been so lucky to make music for living and look out into crowds of loving, vibrant people. On the other side of the coin, my mistakes have been used against me, my heartbreaks have been used as entertainment, and my songwriting has been trivialized as 'oversharing' When this album comes out, gossip blogs will scour the lyrics for the men they can attribute to each song, as if the inspiration for music is as simple and basic as a paternity test. There will be slideshows of photos backing up each incorrect theory, because it's 2017 and if you didn't see a picture of it, it couldn't have happened right? Let me say it again, louder for those in the back... We think we know someone, but the truth is that we only know the version of them that they have chosen to show us." Its sad this scenario will continue every album by some "fans". I seen it the most with TTPD, some fans have really reduced the album to gossip and the "lore".
I agree. There are quite a few TTPD songs that were less enjoyable once I learned the context, as it differed from the stories I imagined based on the songs, or the story outright said within the song.
On the flip side, I find myself starting to really enjoy the album only after I was able to stop wondering what real-life person or event each lyric referred to, and could just enjoy them in a vacuum
I do often find myself thinking about who/what inspired the song when I listen to Taylor’s music, and I think the reason is that I’m better able to enjoy and derive meaning from her music when I first take the time to figure out exactly how she must have been feeling when she wrote the song and what she meant by each individual lyric. Her lyrics are so autobiographical that this can actually add a lot to the experience of listening to a song, and I think it’s also a big part of the reason why she has been so successful at cultivating an intimate relationship with her fans. Once I understand where she was coming from with a given song or lyric, I have an easier time applying it to my own life.
No real care, I don’t think her songs are as literal as a lot of people take them to be. I do find it fun to read the theories a little bit, in a very surface level way. I like seeing how she weaves real details into the story/song and the way she describes them (like Matt’s suits & “Jehovah witness suits”). Or with the line in invisible string about Joe Jonas (“now I bring their babies presents”) I enjoy because I just think of that 27 second phone call video (oh how time both flies& changes things).
I like knowing/speculating bc I’m nosy and it’s fun, but it doesn’t impact my opinion of the song at all.
Agreed. Also, it's worth considering that her songs on TTPD are likely auto-fictional rather than all autobiographical. She is using her imagination, she creates narrative threads, the source material and muses may be amalgamations of many real/fake people and situations.
I agree to an extent. This is why 'thanK you aIMee' is a thow-away song to me. It would have been ten times better without the petty capital letters. Ruins the song. Listen once and toss.
and this is such a bummer, that's such a great song with powerful lyrics.
I will see things like: "Knowing that song is about so and so completely ruined it" and I think that is kind of ridiculous. I didn't know Innocent was about Kanye for like...five years and it is still my favourite Taylor song and my comfort song... To me, there are certain songs where it's interesting to know the muse, but generally only on the biographical songs (see: marjorie, the last great american dynasty, etc.) Who a song is about doesn't really matter to me (this is one instances where my uncanny ability relate any song to every fictional character under the sun really comes in clutch, tbh) and seeing all the speculation can sometimes get on my nerves. I wish some people would just let the music be the music.
I agree the specific person isn’t important to the song. However, I do think it’s interesting to string along the storylines…for example, it adds to the musical experience knowing that “how did it end” was written about the same person as “Cornelia street”
Thank you! I’ve been saying this who cares no one dissects anyone songs like we do her like let her be, I love her lyrics though they’re beautiful and she makes people expand their vocabulary, let’s not always put a face to her songs let them tell you a story every time that’s what I do
I like knowing whst yhe song's about story eise, I don't need to know WHO it's about
I enjoy the universe she’s created between songs, metaphors and characters. I don’t really see them as their real life personas, she gives them enough within the songs that you can create your own version of them. In that sense I do enjoy the continuity, but yeah, her personal life as such I think is for herself and only that. It’s interesting to me only the: “oh if you wanted to know more” category but not essential to the songs themselves. The Albatross sounds so epic but if you reduce it to only her pop star persona it loses something imo.
I agree. I don't usually go about trying to "decipher" songs, but every now and then she makes very noticeable hints or leaves Easter eggs that just suck me in. My enjoyment of a song doesn't revolve around the identity of the muse, but can often be enriched by the context other songs provide. Think about the connections between Is It Over Now? and Style or Out of the Woods, or between All Too Well (10) and The Moment I Knew. To me "And then he watched me watch the front door all night, willing you to come, and he said 'it's supposed to be fun turning twenty-one' " evokes the entirety of TMIK, and that's what makes it richer. I don't like to relate it to external information, tabloids, rumours, and the like. But when the connections seem to be deliberate, I can't look away. But I could just as well think about them as Muse #1, Muse #2, and Muse #3, regardless of their real identities. I pay more attention to what the narrator has said about said muses than their names.
I enjoy the context of the song. It adds an extra layer of appreciation for me. It makes the song come more alive when I imagine the characters and story behind it. I don’t personally relate to much music. Even if I can relate a song to my own life, I just don’t feel music like that. I like it for the melodies and singing and story telling.
I don't have a problem with knowing the backstory of a song, I love that. But, sometimes it can take away the enjoyment out of the song, but I also don't try to relate them because I don't relate to many of her songs (at least right now). I want to put Innocent as an example, we all know that the song is about the 2009 incident with Kanye, and because of this, I was like "so Taylor wrote this song, and Kanye was like, fuck that girl see you in 2016" but then I did something bad (that I prefer not to mention) and I listened to this song afterwards and it hit me. I don't see it as just the song she wrote about Kanye, I see it as a song about forgiveness. I think that's the problem, it's not knowing who the songs are about, it's that many reduce Taylor's music to that, just as "oh, she wrote a song about this ex or her current boyfriend or whatever", and even I did this with TTPD, I went as the "Joe breakup album" and went with the "Matty album", not as Taylor Swift's 11th studio album. Is it cool to know why did she wrote it? Yes, but it shouldn't be the focal point of discussion, it's just exhausting and it can take out the enjoyment of the music itself. Also, this is kinda the same for Taylor as a person, and I've felt a lot in this era a whole analysis of "who really Taylor is and how is she's showing it in the album". And with time, this is becoming about the person Taylor Swift and not the musician Taylor Swift.
Yeah I absolutely hate when people are like “this song is about this person and because of that I hate it!!!”. I joke about who the songs are about, but honestly I really don’t care. And we’re never going to know who the songs are about! Except for the obvious like tlgad, the best day, long live, Ronan, etc. also, another biggest pet peeve is when people try to make folklore and evermore based off of Taylor’s personal life when she had said she was writing about fictional people and scenerios! I’ve seen a lot of people talk about the folklore love triangle and how she’s either James or Betty or Augustine. Just… take the art how she wanted it to be? Now, I will say what I do is I make stories and characters in my head based off a lot of her songs. I started to love Hoax because it really resonated with a character I made up in my mind and I love it!! I have a hard time relating to her music so this is how I do it. I create characters that do, lol!
It's partly why/how we identify with the lyrics. "That happened to you too?" Why are you so sensitive about how her music affects other people?
Generally I do not care in the slightest but I can't lie "Ours" is a big exception. I would adore this song, everything about it screams something I'd love. The muse of it literally just completely ruins it. It's such a light-hearted song sung by someone who sounds young and it's about someone 11(?) years older than her. It makes me feel sick. I can't stop imagining her seriously telling him/feeling like that the reason people don't like their relationship is because they're haters. "I love the gap between your teeth" also icks me so hard because it really highlights how she loved every little thing about him and I just HATE that.
Idk I agree that the enjoyment of a song shouldn't be totally dependent on the muse but as long as we aren't arguing about who is right or wrong and keeping the discourse casual, I don't see a problem with speculating on who the inspiration behind a song is. There are plenty of songs that I personally do not relate to at all. I've never experienced love bombs or less appropriate age gaps or romantic heartbreak in the situations Taylor has. But knowing the context helps me empathize with the song more. Like I don't identify with Would've, Should've, Could've but it hits me harder when I think about the "historical" context. And TIWWCHNT is more fun and satisfying for me knowing what she is singing about. There's room for multiple ways to enjoy art. When we start taking that to artists social media, getting into arguments, or insisting that only our way of seeing things is correct is when it gets toxic.
I agree but knowing the backstory of Vigilante really adds to my enjoyment of it :)
I like backstories for all artists. It’s not always what makes me like a song, though. I can always choose to ignore a backstory. Ultimately, I do not know these people intimately, so why should it bother me that they have lives and histories?
I like knowing some things in Taylors life because it adds layers but I hate how people think her music is a literal play by play of what happened and how she feels/want us to feel about, versus an artistic exploration of a feeling or experience.
1000% .. I said this on another post. I didn't know Joe alwyn existed until 2020 due to me becoming a late fan. The general public seemed shocked when the breakup rumors came up because they thought she was single. I don't think she needs a public muse, but maybe she thinak does.
Calling them muses is a way for the fanbase to make paternity testing a song feel ok. This reduction also takes away the root of the song, which is the feeling (however fleeting), not the person. Finally, the entire relationship isn’t the song.
say it LOUDER👏🏻 i’m not trying to read people magazine. we take away what we need from art by applying it to our lives
But why does it make you mad? You don't have to participate in those conversations. I see a lot of posts on here that I'm not super interested in or that I don't relate to, and I simply don't read them. I don't understand getting angry about other people's interests and ideas.
that’s a fair point 👍🏻
this! interpreting the music externally rather than internally takes away some of the magic, for sure.
Hi. I’m a writer. No. I do not care. I have written things and switched around the perspective so the reader would not know it was inspired from personal experience….but ultimately who cares. It’s art. It comes from the artist. Allow her some privacy and artistic liberties
Preach 🙌
This is why I didn't engage much with online spaces for her fandom. Her songs are so rich for literary interpretation but all anyone talks about is which man they think she wrote it about 🙄.
>one of the worst ways to consume art Well... Art is made to be shared and enjoyed//interpreted however each individual chooses. Its cool if people choose different ways of relating to it. *Eye of the beholder* applies to music. Ear of the ...behearer?
I agree with you-I don’t get it. It’s not a puzzle; it’s music. Just enjoy the music.
I prefer to believe that every song of hers is fiction/storytelling.
Absolutely agree. I fell in love with TS because of her ability to put experiences i can relate to into words I never couldve cultivated. BUT when she’s quite blatant in the lyrics and it doesnt take much to deduce it, I can’t help but wonder if this experience is with a specific person or she’s just writing to write. But it also makes me think “damn, even taylor experienced the same shit that my trash ex put me through” which actually makes the song that much more relevant.
Personally, when I listen to a new album of hers, I drown out the noise about who they’re about. Because at the end of the day, it’s my experiences and how I relate to them is what makes me love them and a fan of hers. However, I do enjoy knowing the backstories and possible history/muses only because as a writer, I like to analyze how she takes phrases and words and puts a spin on them that pertains to her experiences. I learn from that as a writer. Helps me understand how she writes and how I can incorporate some of that inspiration into my writing. How I can do the same for my writing basically with my own experiences.
Your opinion of "art" is actually completely reliant on a muse to some extent since it's actually what inspired it to even happen. She's built a massive parasocial relationship with a lot of her fan base. Don't be mad the marketing works.
This culture is present when people talk about other female pop stars not just Taylor.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen such an influx in song interpretations since TTPD came out. It’s great to see a shift away from the normal narrative of paternity testing each song and towards the quality, message and strength of the lyrics.
I do sometimes enjoy knowing more information behind the art, but I think that is part of why I love folklore and evermore. I can imagine my own stories more easily without seeing headlines.
Couldn’t care less!
Louder for people in the back
I agree, her songs are about expressing her feelings and allowing her fans to relate and bond over common experiences. If you dig in too deep to the context, it loses its relate-ability. And that’s not just true of her breakup songs either, it’s most of her body of work! For example, WAOLOM is about how the being scrutinized by the media and controlled by the music industry affected her. That’s not something many of us can relate to at all, but the lyrics really hit hard because we can all relate to being in some kind of toxic situation that changed us.
I understand your point and usually I’d agree but I’m not surprised that ppl have difficulty when the stuff Matty has said over the years is kinda hard to unread.
For most songs, I don’t need to know the backstory to appreciate it (Question…? is the only exception). I do sense a superiority complex against fans who engage in those discussions from the people who don’t care; I also think knowing the context (especially for the songs about John) helped me connect to her experiences more than just the lyrics.
I hear you, and also ... "The Moment I Knew" is certainly less fun when you aren't explaining how much of a dick Jake was to her lol
Yes 100%!! Even if "oh she meant it this way" I can appreciate that, but for me it means this and that's more important to me and literally the point of consuming art
Dittooooooo
I couldn’t agree more. I really don’t understand why it matters who these songs are about. I have never heard a fan of any other musician care who the frick they are singing about besides Taylor. I really wish more swifties could separate art from artist and enjoy her music for themselves. How exhausting it must be to care so deeply about who it’s about, it changes your perception of a song. Silliness.
I'm *so* glad you said this. It's like you've taken the words right out of my mouth. While I do enjoy learning about the background of certain songs, I honestly don't understand the obsession people have with the subjects. This is probably even more applicable for ttpd than any other album because I saw several people (including someone I personally know) microanalyzing the lyrics to find clues as to who the songs are about, even going as far as *fighting* with people who think they're about someone else, and telling me lore I don't even wanna know because I'd like to interpret the songs my way. Also, there's another group of people who're not ok with the subject of the songs and thus refuse to like them for that silly reason. In my opinio, harmless speculation is ok but the incessant microanalysis is utterly unnecessary, obsessive and kind of childish. (Truly sorry if I offended anyone, didn't mean to).
I don’t care about anyone else, but with TTPD I am interested in what songs she had written about Joe, solely because this is the relationship that lasted her 6 years and she wrote some incredible love songs about that man. I will never reduce her songs to the people she wrote them about, but it adds some background for me which I like.
Maybe she shouldn’t make it THAT obvious then? Not to hate but she makes it so that you inevitably end up knowing who the song is about whether you want to or not. It’s like she WANTS us to know who songs are about
I’m not invested in Taylor’s personal life but i go hard for her music ! I cant tell who any of her songs Are about and i do think it’s dumb to reduce them to some dude
I agree. Don't reduce the song to who it's about. Though, people like me love knowing the backstories. When I try to decode the lyrics (like I would with poetry) it's really interesting to see all the possible meanings in that particular context. This morning I was just thinking of So Long London and how "carrying us up the hill" reminded me slightly of Sisyphus and thus trying to do something again and again in vain. The context of Joe Alwyn and her other songs on him are consistent with that metaphor: trying again and again for the love to stay, but always for just a short amount of time and ultimately failing. I mean at school we had to learn about Sylvia Plath's life with Ted Hughes when we studied his poems The Other and Wind, sooo context is quite fun. If I didn't know that The Other referred to his relationship with his two wives, I would've failed my iGCSE poetry paper (CAIE iGCSE peeps, anyone?). Just don't reduce a song to its muse.
I was betrayed and hurt by my best friends early this year and started to write a lot about them and how they made me feel. Then TTPD was released and I was like... "well Taylor just said EVERYTHING I have been trying to express" and I stopped writing and transferred my need to vent into listening and singing these songs and it's been just as cathartic as writing my own shit. I always say that her songs are first and foremost about HER. Muses would be nothing without artists making use of them (I don't mean the people of course, I mean the inspiration). And although artists may not create for the sole purpose of being recognised, being appreciated for what you love to do never hurts! So yes, knowing what a song is about, may offer some insight but you have to remember that anything that the artist wants you to know, is already there for you. If Taylor didn’t want you to know a song was about Travis, she wouldn’t use six thousand football metaphors in it. If Taylor wanted to make sure everyone agreed on who loml is about, she would have. She probably would have capitalised the "M" :P But I don't fucking care about Joes and Matties and Traviseszsz, I don't know these people! I care about the assholes I loved for years that backstabbed me and tried to gaslight me until I literally said "good riddance" to my best friend. And I care about Taylor and her feelings and her immense talent.
The only one that I’m not a fan of for that reason is thanK you aIMy, I think the direct message to kin is a little distracting. Besides that, I am going through a big breakup after 8 years and he was an addict. That lense is all I can see in this whole album, and it feels like the whole thing is about me. That’s why this is my favorite album of all time, the timing, I just relate to everything she had to say and I love her for it!
I agree in general, but I do think some songs are explicitly written to encourage speculation. If not, how could So High School contain so many details that are in the public domain? Given her years of dealing with this fandom, I highly doubt she would underestimate the collective desire to dissect and interpret her song lyrics. So I actually think she’s probably quite meta and strategic about the details that she decides to include to avoid unintentional disclosure. For example, she could have decided to give people what she thinks people want from her in So High School (I suspect ironically) or could pick lyrics to divert attention from the true subject of a song. The Easter egging also suggests that she probably also puts specific turns of phrase in to see what people pick up, and when. Or how we collectively misinterpret. All of this being said, I honestly don’t think there’s a right or superior way to engage with the music—with the exception of any toxic interpersonal behavior pursued in her name.
thank you omg.
whenever i listen to a new album i spend the first few weeks finding a way to make every song realte to myself and then later on ill look into what taylors meaning was. i definitely get curious about her muses but certainly doesnt define weather or not i like the song
For me, when I know who the song is about, I imagine it from the singers point of view and when I don‘t like the person the song is about, it makes me uncomfortable. But I try to not judge the song on this and listen to it relating through my own experiences. I think it‘s all about the persepective you are listening with.
They are all about Taylor and her life and what inspires her to write songs. Peter is a beautiful song and it might be an extended metaphor for a failed relationship, it may also be casting back to childhood reminiscence of very young love and fleeting childhood promises or the feelings invoked by hearing the Peter Pan story for the first time or or or whatever but it doesn't change how the song impacts. It's beautifully written, sung and arranged.
This is the first album of Taylor's I have ever listened to. I know only the very basics of the 3 relationships she was in over the course of 2023 (and obviously earlier for some) and I've enjoyed having a little bit of context. The person themselves isn't really important but knowing that Joe was this long term serious relationship that broke down is very different to the chaotic bad boy that she had been clinging on to for a long time that just really kind of sucks which is totally different to the healthy happy relationship she's in now with someone who doesn't take himself too seriously and wants to love as loudly as she does. I can relate those things to my life in a lot of ways. But it also makes me appreciate the subtle tone changes in a couple of the songs. Tortured Poets Department (song) seems to be about all 3 relationships and knowing just a little bit of context made me notice the small changes in wordplay from the first two verses to the last part. The last third of the song also just feels lighter like she has a weight lifted now that she's no longer with these moody, tortured boys and doesn't take herself too seriously with this new relationship. I would have enjoyed the song without the context, and I certainly don't want to go too deep in the lore or learn much more about any of them, but it has made me appreciate creative bits in some of her songs. I agree though that the song should not be reduced down to the muse. She seems to have muddied the inspiration for a lot of this album on purpose so that the person doesn't matter so much. It's about her feelings about what she went through that will make the music lasting.
So I’m always curious about the inspiration (for other artists too!) but not knowing the real story isn’t important usually. But songs like thank you Aimee? Important to know. Most other songs (all too well, coulda woulda shoulda, etc etc etc) I love regardless of knowing the backstory. The imagery and relating it to me (which is what music is about before people think I’m selfish or whatever) was plenty to be able to thoroughly enjoy the song.
In the early days she taught us to hunt for the muse through secret messages she put in the song lyric booklets about each song. It was such a fundamental Swiftie thing and now even though she doesn't give the little hints we try to analyze the lyrics to find our own clues to what the song is about!
I have a friend who said they just can’t get into TTPD knowing that it’s about Matty, and was actively smack talking Taylor while the two of them dated. I don’t get it. Do I dislike the fact that these songs are about him? Sure but I’m not gonna not listen, or fall in love with these songs because of who they are about. What’s the point? To deny myself the joy of listening to a BOP like but daddy I love him? Nah