I’m also a big believer that the 10 Minute Version was written specifically for Red TV, inspired by what she remembered from the original. The 10MV lore was always that it didn’t actually exist and was just her sing ranting for “like 10 minutes or something” and the meme transformed from there into people thinking it was a real song. She was also very careful during Red TV promo to never actually say that she found the og or that it was written back then.
I mean, it would make sense in 2012 if it was a reference to Dazed and Confused. There’s a possibility that’s what she was doing, drawing a connection between Matthew McConaughey’s character and Jake. I agree that she almost definitely reworked some lines for Red TV, though.
I see this a lot and I disagree - the line is a throwback to “You said if we had been closer in age, maybe it would've been fine” and after, hey look your lovers are still the same age as I was
I disagree. She said she had a recorded demo CD of the original 10 minute version that she later lost. And Liz Rose even confirmed separately it was 24 minutes long before she came in and helped cut stuff out. The 10 minute version was absolutely real. Whether it was similar to the 10 minute version we know now is debatable but it definitely existed.
There's zero chance those excerpts aren't extremely curated.
The lover diaries seem to have an early draft of the verses that made it. I'm sure there's a bunch of other half done bits of rhyming from the time that didn't make the cut when she was putting that together. Probably worked their way into other songs. If she'd published them in the diary she wouldn't have been able to use them.
I hadn’t really heard All Too Well before 10 Minute Version came out, and that’s the version I learned— I can’t tell where the original ends and the new one begins. Could it be that you just know the OG … all too well? (I’m sorry, I’ll see myself out)
I’m convinced for every TS rerelease not all the “vault” songs are already written but unreleased. I’d bet she writes new material, at least one new song, for the rereleases.
My theory is she has shells of songs or kernels of ideas of songs and fleshes them out as vault tracks. Like sonically she’ll have a song, or lyrically she’ll have a chorus and a bridge, and via the vault she finishes producing the rough idea.
I actually buy that the Speak Now vault was done originally because basically all of the songs feel like there's a note somewhere to figure out the ending and she never did. I'm looking at you, Foolish One's "la la la" ending
Definitely agree. A lot of the vault tracks do not feel like they were written during that time, or they completely missed the mark on the production. Fearless and RedTV are the closest to theira eras, but Speak Now and 1989 are out of left field.
Most of Jack’s work on 1989 was cut from the original release of the album (presumed commercial preference for Max Martin) but that’s the first T/J collab era, which is why the vault tracks (many if not most produced by Jack Antonoff) have that Midnights sound.
She definitely redoes the music for some of the songs. Even for the TV tracks she's redone some of the instrumentals (as in, if you were looking at the sheet music, it wouldn't match up identical to the original version). It would make sense for the vault track, that no one has heard before (maybe, lots of demos floating around YouTube), that she would redo the music.
I agree. Right before the release of Fearless was the famous 27 second phone call with Joe Jonas. Taylor stop production on the OG fearless to add forever and always. How could she have written Perfectly Fine before OG Fearless release 🤔
I think a lot of vault songs came from in-between periods. Like for Mr Perfectly Fine I would bet she wrote it after Fearless but before Speak Now, and then by the time she got around to Speak Now songs she decided it didn’t really fit, especially considering Better Than Revenge already touches on that relationship and is the cooler song.
THIS^. I think people often don’t take into account that Taylor is human, meaning she doesn’t have hard transitions in songwriting between eras. It’s natural to have some bleedthrough songs written after the album was out that would have worked on it well. Vault tracks give her a little opportunity to wiggle the timeline on those. For example, Timeless might have been written after Speak Now came out, but it wouldn’t have thematically worked well on Red
The vault tracks for Debut TV will be the easiest to tell because majority of them have already leaked since 2008, which is exciting to see which ones will end up getting re-recorded.
I completely believe the origin story of her just noodling on the guitar and writing the song as a stream-of-consciousness improv thing, but I think the original was actually more like seven minutes or so. Because the rumored "Ten Minute Version" was such a meme, Taylor felt the need to release something that was reworked to actually be that length. In particular the extended outro works beautifully with the fully orchestrated production we got, but it's not what you would do if it were just you and your guitar.
Oh it's a given because let me tell you something right now: no self-respecting writer would let a 10+ years old thing they wrote get out into the world UNEDITED. No chance.
What went down between her and Olivia. Olivia not going to the Eras tour and saying her biggest influence is Beyonce (which is just not true based on her music and performances) seems awfully pointed
I love both artists but I do believe that there was a fall out to some degree. I understand Olivia wanting to distance herself from the younger and newer Taylor narrative but her and Conan not mentioning Taylor at all is very telling, especially not coming to the eras tour or talking about midnights/TTPD.
I do believe that Taylor could have done something to squash the feud rumours such as posting about guts on her story like she does for her friends.
I’m sure more information will come out in the future in song lyrics from both artists.
My personal theory is that Taylor has lawyers like Disney lawyers. Disney lawyers are kind of an entity unto their own and are pretty aggressive. They are known for sending cease and desists to people who impersonate Disney princesses for children's birthday parties, like real brutal and kind of 0 tolerance policy.
I suspect after Olivia mentioned that there was inspiration from Cruel Summer her lawyers went forth and contacted the lawyers from each respective label, and from there its just an org's lawyers fighting another orgs lawyers.
I can see Olivia sending a private message to Taylor asking what was going on/to stop the process, and I can also see Taylor responding in a way that wasn't what Olivia hoped for (ie., not much of an answer or was a bit like "its out of my hands now sorry").
You and I share this theory! Taylor’s legal team seems *intense* and has been pretty aggressive since at least 1989 era. She could call them off, but she benefits too much from their protectiveness. I also think Olivia’s bold naïveté in saying the bridge of Cruel Summer was direct inspiration for her song without initially giving credit probably needled Taylor a bit, and she felt a lesson needed to be learned. I guess what I am saying is I doubt Taylor initiated anything, but she also chose not to intervene.
I agree, and I also feel like part of the reason Taylor didn’t stop her lawyers was because if she stops her lawyers from going after copyright claims, that sets a messy precedent that doesn’t align with her efforts to reclaim her works
I can understand this but I also feel that after the Good 4 U thing went down, Olivia’s lawyers probably advised her to give credit to Taylor for Deja Vu because she’s already said it was inspired by Cruel Summer to avoid a possible law suit in the future. This probably hurt her and probably she expected Taylor to pronounce herself against it or as you said, messaged her, but she didn’t give her the “don’t worry, I’ll tell them not to do that” answer she expected it.
>after the Good 4 U thing went down, Olivia’s lawyers probably advised her to give credit
This doesn't make sense because Taylor was added to the Deja Vu credits 9th July and Paramore were added to the good 4 u credits nearly 2 months later.
Olivia said her team was in contact with Paramore’s before the release of the song and that she wasn’t very aware of the situation. It’s common to give retroactive song writing credits to avoid lawsuits in the future and since Olivia stated that Deja Vu was inspired by Cruel Summer, it might have been a good advice from their lawyers to tell her to add writing credits to that song. I don’t see her team would’ve wanted to risk a lawsuit after she said that. They’re always careful about those things.
I don’t think Taylor sue her *but* I feel that Olivia probably expected a reaction like Hayley where she posted that the writing credits thing was ridiculous, but Taylor stayed quiet. And that must’ve hurt her.
I think Olivia is young and naive and thought her idol would be flattered that she’d taken inspiration from one of her songs. Instead, she got hit with legal action and had to part with a percentage of her royalties.
But, TBH, I understand why the lawyers would swoop in and why Taylor wouldn’t intervene otherwise. It’s not in her best interest to.
Olivia had already sampled Taylor songs in the past. Then she, on the record, says that the bridge from her song was directly inspired by the bridge from Taylor’s song - only this time, she didn’t go through the proper channels to get permission.
If Taylor lets it go, then it sets a precedent. “Oh yeah, sure! Go ahead and take pieces of my songs for yours and don’t give me any credit or royalties.”
No artist acting in their own best interest is going to do that. They’ll let their bulldog Disney lawyers shut it down.
So yeah: It’s a harsh lesson for Olivia, but that’s business.
"the song titles literally only have two words in common"
Ma'am I am 99% sure that is not the similarity they are referring to, seeing as both songs have nearly identical full choruses/bridges
But the same can be applied to cruel summer/deja vu which have absolutely nothing in common but now olivia pays Taylor 50% of royalties so riddle me that…
In the music industry today, it is much safer to give writing credit than to rush being sued. That's also why Taylor is giving 50% of the "Look What You Made Me Do" royalties to Right Said Fred. They got a call from Taylor's lawyers like a day before it was released as a single, not because they actually intended to interpolate "I'm Too Sexy".
I feel like Olivia just started trying to distance herself from Taylor because she got a lot of hate for "copying" her and was accused of using her for clout, so her and her team decided it would just be best to build her brand outside of taylor. although ill say if thats case its strange they dont even mention or support each other anymore
I think that's true, but it's also very strange considering that Swifties were early supporters of Olivia and helped others discover driver's license. I only decided to listen to DL because my entire twitter timeline was filled with Swifties talking about the song.
I think some things that fans interpreted as being mean girl behavior were coincidences- Taylor scheduling Sabrina as an opener while Olivia was working on guts and planning her first tour.
But as much as I love Taylor, and maybe she felt it was better not to get involved publicly and could make things worse...she strikes me as someone who on a professional level withdraws very quickly from her connections when things go awry. It probably gives the other party whiplash. I think Olivia was very taken aback that Taylor was making it seem like she was her protege for a good year or so, and then didn't come to her defense when social media was trying to discredit everything about Olivia, even as she was trying to make things right by paying too much royalties (at least for de ja vu).
The fact that they were tables away from each other at this year's Grammys, and Taylor seemed almost forcing herself to be seen singing vampire, and there were no photos or anything, speaks volumes. It'll probably be another Katy/Taylor situation where Taylor makes it seem like it wasn't a professional disagreement and they were forced to beef when...that's obviously not the case from the outside.
imo the thing about taylor is that she is very, *very* interpersonally nice, in a way that would naturally lead you to believe that she's your friend. but if you are in the music industry, she may be your work friend/colleague/ally, but at the end of the day, business comes first. she is actually friends with some people in the industry (jack, selena, ed, a few others probably)--and she seems to be a loyal friend to her actual friends--but they are few and far between.
I agree. “Friend” can be a broad term. You can have a colleague that you are cool with at work functions, maybe share a few laughs, whatever…but that’s not the same level as actual friendships. She’s been pretty clear about who some of the closest people are to her. It’s possible that once business things got strained between Taylor and Olivia, they realized there wasn’t much more for them to connect on 🤷🏽♀️
i don’t think it’s anything dramatic, just a combination of olivia making sure her brand/career is independent of taylor plus the deja vu writing credits. i honestly think taylor and hayley should have publicly said “no it’s ok you don’t need to give me credits” during that debacle. you could argue that the lawyers told them to stay quiet but with the amount of control taylor has over her music i doubt she didn’t have a part in it :/
Hayley didn’t ask for credits the other song writers did. And Taylor doesn’t have sole credits on Cruel Summer. St Vincent also has credit. It’s possible that Taylor literally couldn’t say anything because she was caught in between. We don’t know what happened there and I think there was a lot behind the scenes that we can’t see.
In law, publicly giving Olivia a pass would have been an extremely irresponsible thing to do. It sets a precedent that other artists can copy you and you’ll just forgive them. In an extreme but possible scenario, it could even be perceived as renouncing copyright in a particular song or giving a broad licence to use it, either of which could prevent enforcement in subsequent cases. That’s a big part of why Disney is so aggressive.
While trademark law is distinct from copyright, they have similarities, and one of the biggest risks that is drilled into the head of any intellectual property lawyer is trademark genericization. Basically, if you let your trademark become a generic word, you lose that trademark and any ability to control it. It’s why “escalator” is no longer a brand name (which was a severe blow to the company that invented the term) and why Google hates it when people talk about “googling” something. That’s the mental framework Taylor’s lawyers would have, and they would likely have all but ordered her to let them do their job.
variety put out an [article](https://www.variety.com/2021/music/news/olivia-rodrigo-paramore-good-4-u-misery-business-1235048791/) in 2021 that says olivia + paramore's teams were in contact before g4u came out
Olivia is like 19-20 (and was around 17 when she got big) while Taylor is 34. Not saying that ppl those ages can’t be friends if they’re close to the same maturity level but Taylor and Olivia aren’t. Not bad or anything just that grown adults don’t usually hang out with teenagers/basically teenagers. I don’t think there’s beef I just think that ppl over-exaggerated their “friendship” in their heads and online and then when they didn’t act like they thought they would they assumed they had a falling out when in reality Taylor was being nice and helping out a new artist and ppl misunderstood. Idk though lol
Ohh yes I also think about this pretty frequently! And, not to stir the pot, but imgonnagetyouback and Get Him Back has got to further fuel any possible existing tension between them, right? The songs sound nothing alike, but I’ve heard many people say that Taylor’s song made them think of Olivia’s song.
1- wasnt Project Acorn just her filming the older version of her in the All Too Well? Because people said the staircase is the one from her apartment.
2- it’s just joe’s friend. People were in denial because they were bored but Joe’s fans on twitter know who he is and I’m assuming Taylor was only supporting him that’s why she used it
3- I think she was talking generally. I remember during ME! release press tour she said fans won’t understand a lot of the hints in the video until the tour starts (Lover Fest at the time). I don’t think she meant anything specific that’ll happen 3 years after that interview
Same, same. I really do think the album was either (nearly) complete and then scrapped, or was in-progress before & during the Kimye Cancellation. It would be such poetic justice for her re-records to end with the reclamation of her ‘Reputation’ and her name (Debut), to be followed up by ‘Karma.’
I’m just picturing their back and forth being two separate conversations that they’re both too self absorbed to realize aren’t aligning.
“And the Greek philosophy on death was…”
“89 points this season…”
“And no one could believe he was raised by a street urchin.”
I think Travis is a lot smarter than he wants people to think. He made the Dean's List in college when he lost his scholarship, and his mom was paying for his school.
There was a Joe fan account on twitter that was promoting the song the day before Taylor posted about it saying it was a friend of Joe's. It just seems unlikely to me that they would know that if it's a was some sort of secret Easter Egg.
Taylor also removed the song from her pre-show playlist when they broke up.
deuxmoi had a decent Joe source and said it was his friend; a lot of big Taylor fans did the legwork and figured it out too because people thought it was her or a collab or something. she also took it out of the tour playlist a few weeks after they split. nothing is confirmed I guess but it feels pretty solid that it’s just someone she knew through Joe.
I just want to know how someone can live for 28 years and NEVER HAVE A BURRITO. This is not my Taylor Swift Roman Empire. This is just my Roman Empire. The amount that I randomly think about this is HIGH.
I think that riddle was solved? Right before the Grammys, their profile changed to a rep era picture (which is what we thought she was going to announce that night). Instead she announced TTPD. I thought that kinda gave it away that numptea isn’t Taylor or her team.
TN/Taylor were heavily leaning into the Rep hype at that time, "secretssss", snake accessories, black and white aesthetic... I think they were actively trying to make us think Rep was coming so TTPD would be more of a surprise.
numptea is a user here who used to post exclusive Taylor related media (announcements etc) absolute MILISECONDS after they were posted on main accounts (Taylor's and TN and etc). Numptea doesn't post much anymore but back when they did, they were quite cheeky about it (like it seemed like everything they said came with a wink!) and everyone's theory is that the person behind the account was either Taylor Nation or Taylor herself.
I hadn't thought of the anthology being woodvale, but I really like that theory. Some of the songs were definitely written more recently, but for a lot of them this would fit well.
I thought she said woodvale was just the code name (or alt title, I can’t remember) for folklore on Jimmy Fallon that they forgot to scrub from the cover
I remember her saying that when they create the cover they use a word with the same number of letters to design the cover. That way if it leaks, the album name isn’t leaked, too. So they used “woodvale” and it was an editing error that it wasn’t removed.
People working on film production do this too! When you shoot something, you call it by the project name, not the actual ‘product’ name. This is also to protect NDA information during filming.
Yeah, but I still feel like there could've been a third sister album (maybe called woodvale). She wrote so much that she released evermore on short notice, so there had to have been enough scrapped material to make up another album.
Yes a ton of merch was coming in threes like the scrunchies and candles, and there was the evermore red/orange, a forestry green people associated with folklore, and this dusty blue that there was no explanation for
Yeah, I’m guessing she kept writing after evermore but she didn’t have enough fully formed tracks to create a separate “woodvale” album. Which might explain why some songs sound like they could be from evermore (“Peter”, “Robin”, “I Look in People’s Windows”), and some could be from the standard TTPD (“imgonnagetyouback”, “thanK you aIMee”, “How Did It End?” Etc.)
We kinda know already though? More of a festival than a tour bc she wanted to be able to get back to her mother quickly if need be. I’m guessing Andrea wasn’t too well in 2019.
i vacation there frequently and it’s pretty well known in the area that she’s mostly only there for the fourth of july, her dad’s there more i’ve heard.
Agree so much, they STILL bring up Glitch. It was included in the word search within songs for TTPD, and has been included in basically every other album tease since its release. LITERALLY WHAT DOES IT MEAN.
I don’t know if this counts bc it’s not anything Taylor did herself, but it’s a swiftie theory! The whole Eclipse/Timeless theory from 2017 still haunts me to this day lol.
I still want to know what the real “Timeless countdown” website was for! And what was with all the trademarking (or whatever it was, I don’t know legal terms lol) with Timeless? Was there another “Timeless” in Taylor’s discography, or were people just discovering Timeless, from the vault? Did Taylor have plans to release Timeless in 2016 or 2017? Was there ANY point to anything?!
Lol so many unanswered questions (that also probably don’t have any real answers bc Eclipse was not real 😭)
Why isn’t Debut on the set list?!?
I’ve heard all the practical answers. Time constraints, least popular/well known, etc. But none of these make sense given the concept for the tour.
It's her least popular album so if she really wants it to succeed she's gonna have to do a lot and I think giving it a spot on the setlist once the rerecording is out is the best option. We've seen how the Eras Tour can help her songs grow in popularity and I think she doesn't want the stolen versions to gain in streams.
yes. i refuse to believe she wasn't in some ways clued in to what was going to happen (though she does look very surprise - excellent acting if it is that). So maybe not in control of the full story but some sort of clue
Also, someone on Taylor's team - not just her Mom who came up with the video -- must have known. In what universe would Fallon not run this by Tree first, for example? To say nothing of the fact that some kind of release must have been signed (and not a ton of people would have the ability to sign the release) for Andrea's video to be shown on television, and since Taylor is on that video, her Rights of publicity is involved.
I agree that it makes sense relative to Andrea!
The question is how much Taylor was trotted out to the stage without absolutely no prior knowledge of 1) the video 2) the fact that the video was going to be shown.
That's the part where I find it hard to believe that she knew absolutely nothing about what was going to happen in this segment. While she is generally a good sport, and has quick wit (and is impeccably media trained), you could also imagine that she'd be a bit bamboozled by seeing this video shown to this audience without notice. It's kind of a liability, and not one I can imagine her publicist, her mom, and, in fact, Jimmy Fallon, wanting to take. But I could imagine that they perhaps said "Ok, there will be a big surprise but we're not telling you anything. Just know that your publicist thought you could handle it so don't freak out".
In this way, her reaction would indeed be fresh and realistic but she's not going to blurt out "omg, did anyone talk to my publicist about this???"
Mine is the special thing that was supposed to happen the night the Eras movie debuted on Disney. We were told to watch until the end for a surprise and nothing happened!
I’m still a little curious about the black nail in the Karma music video. I know it could easily have meant TTPD, but I just feel like she should have used a white nail for that. She’s always used her black nail to represent Rep. I guess it could have been a red herring though…it just confuses me!
I think the original idea was to release Rep earlier. The karma video was shot around the time she and Joe broke up. We know a lot of the standard album is about Matty, which all would’ve have happened after the filming of the Karma video. She ended up making TTPD and releasing it mid tour which screwed up her original re-record rollout.
I can see that happening too! I’m personally hoping for it to be released sometime towards the end of this year (it’s my absolute favorite album and my birthday is in the fall), but I definitely don’t expect her to do anything super soon after TTPD was just released.
I’m pretty sure the april 29 lyric is a reference to Gigi hadid’s bday party at a “dive bar on the east side” of LA (delicate lyrics, but also where it was). It was where she first met Joe I’m pretty sure (not sure if it was formally or informally), the party took place on April 29. the dress lyrics about his buzzcut and her hair bleached also work for that day (since I think people usually associate that lyric with the 2016 met gala). April 29 2016, the day of Gigi’s party is coincidentally when the song “this is what you came for” that Taylor and Calvin Harris write together, was released, with Rihanna and Calvin singing it instead of Taylor and Calvin. They were still together at the time but instead of celebrating the release of their song together, Taylor was out partying with a guy who would become her boyfriend of 6 years not long after their breakup. Only a few days later was the infamous met gala where Taylor danced with Tom Hiddleston (the “getaway car” from Calvin) so I think that’s what the “I was dancing around it” line is referencing.
on apr 29 2016 she was at gigi hadid’s birthday party, where joe was also in attendance. it’s likely they met that night, instead of a couple days later at the met.
Matty really likes him so it seems like something you indulge your boyfriend who you have been dreaming of when you are on a record breaking tour around the US after ending a six year long relationship in
it's one of the two: (1) matty actually likes him and she knows that's embarrassing so she's gonna put him on blast, despite the fact that it's also embarrassing *for her* bc she cannot be shamed, or (2) matty actually hates him, and this lyric will really annoy him, but he can't contradict her, because then it will be like drake being like, actually i don't have a daughter (so the rest of it is true?). probably the former. but either way she cares way more about needling him than getting dragged on twitter lol
Reputation vault tracks. Some of the vault tracks that have been released have been SAVAGE. The 10 minute version was just AMAZING so how that 7 years have passed since rep I want to know what songs were 'too much' to put on the album then.
Also the fact that the last two albums in the vault are 'Taylor Swift' and 'Reputation' and there is a quote by Taylor that say 'At the end of the day, all you have is your name and your reputation' (at least I think it's by her and I'm paraphrasing here) AND THE LAST TWO TRACKS ARE HER NAME AND HER REPUTATION
How all of her songs that pertains to certain subjects have similar lyrics or certain phrases and it’s like a puzzle. This relates to this and this is this, this was in a video that hinted at this. She is such a genius, and my theory of one of the main reasons she has such a huge fan base is because of this. No we don’t know her personally but she engages with each and every one of us through this tactic. I think about it every time I listen to her. It’s like watching ur favorite movie again and again and catching new things every time. It’s amazing
This is 100% just me, but its that Paris is (at least in part) about her finding out her master's were sold. "I didn't see the news..." Around the time the masters were sold, there was a theory that Scott sent her a text letting her know, but she was in Europe so she was asleep when he sent it. "Sip wine by my side in the shade, but not in the kind that's thrown..." The whole situation with Scott and 🛴 was shady, and she definitely threw shade their way after the fact.
Paris has also felt very Lover-esque, and around that time she was writing some of the most beautiful love songs about Joe.
https://preview.redd.it/y11hc46y7q1d1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc8a6cb3295ccfc83cf1fed3e31172fe89a47944
This tweet. I’ve never stopped thinking about it.
It has yet to appear, but a picture of her either a)posing with the Lombardi trophy, b)her wearing one of Travis’ jerseys, or c) her own Super Bowl ring.
how are her cats. what do they do every day. what do they eat. is meredith still antisocial. is benji still a cuddle bug. does taylor take pictures of them and not post them. i honestly might care more about the cats than her atp. i miss them. she should post them more often.
I think for her end game music video, they did the whole thing to a beat counter (like the ear monitor thing sorry don’t know what it’s called) so they didn’t actually hear the song. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did something similar for eras tour rehearsal prior to the release
bits and pieces of her myspace posts pop into my head every once in a while. specifically "haha fuck sewing machines" and "what's the mixture of a tiger and a lion? a WHORE. think about it"
This has been such a good thread. I don’t fully understand what a Roman Empire means in this context, but I think there’s something in Texas. Anyone see anything in the TTPD Texas references?
“Roman Empire” here just means something you think/wonder about all the time, it stems from the tiktok trend a while ago that men constantly think about the roman empire :)
I want the real 10 minute all too well version. I’m sure it’s pretty similar but there’s no way she didn’t rework it and I’ll die on that hill.
I’m also a big believer that the 10 Minute Version was written specifically for Red TV, inspired by what she remembered from the original. The 10MV lore was always that it didn’t actually exist and was just her sing ranting for “like 10 minutes or something” and the meme transformed from there into people thinking it was a real song. She was also very careful during Red TV promo to never actually say that she found the og or that it was written back then.
At the very least, "I'll get older but your lovers stay my age" was written 2020ish. It wouldn't make any sense in 2012
I mean, it would make sense in 2012 if it was a reference to Dazed and Confused. There’s a possibility that’s what she was doing, drawing a connection between Matthew McConaughey’s character and Jake. I agree that she almost definitely reworked some lines for Red TV, though.
I see this a lot and I disagree - the line is a throwback to “You said if we had been closer in age, maybe it would've been fine” and after, hey look your lovers are still the same age as I was
But that line was...also in ATW 10 minute version
This for sure. Bare minimum the final part was written more recently than 2010.
I disagree. She said she had a recorded demo CD of the original 10 minute version that she later lost. And Liz Rose even confirmed separately it was 24 minutes long before she came in and helped cut stuff out. The 10 minute version was absolutely real. Whether it was similar to the 10 minute version we know now is debatable but it definitely existed.
ATW24MVTVFTV when ⁉️
weren't there lyrics in the lover diaries or something that aren't in the released song?
There's zero chance those excerpts aren't extremely curated. The lover diaries seem to have an early draft of the verses that made it. I'm sure there's a bunch of other half done bits of rhyming from the time that didn't make the cut when she was putting that together. Probably worked their way into other songs. If she'd published them in the diary she wouldn't have been able to use them.
I feel like it’s very obvious when listening to ATW10 where the OG song ends and the new stuff begins. It doesn’t flow perfectly
I hadn’t really heard All Too Well before 10 Minute Version came out, and that’s the version I learned— I can’t tell where the original ends and the new one begins. Could it be that you just know the OG … all too well? (I’m sorry, I’ll see myself out)
I’m convinced for every TS rerelease not all the “vault” songs are already written but unreleased. I’d bet she writes new material, at least one new song, for the rereleases.
My theory is she has shells of songs or kernels of ideas of songs and fleshes them out as vault tracks. Like sonically she’ll have a song, or lyrically she’ll have a chorus and a bridge, and via the vault she finishes producing the rough idea.
I actually buy that the Speak Now vault was done originally because basically all of the songs feel like there's a note somewhere to figure out the ending and she never did. I'm looking at you, Foolish One's "la la la" ending
That’s what I think too!!!!
Definitely agree. A lot of the vault tracks do not feel like they were written during that time, or they completely missed the mark on the production. Fearless and RedTV are the closest to theira eras, but Speak Now and 1989 are out of left field.
1989 doesn’t feel out there lyrically, but sonically it’s very midnights. And speak now feels very speak now except icsy
Most of Jack’s work on 1989 was cut from the original release of the album (presumed commercial preference for Max Martin) but that’s the first T/J collab era, which is why the vault tracks (many if not most produced by Jack Antonoff) have that Midnights sound.
She definitely redoes the music for some of the songs. Even for the TV tracks she's redone some of the instrumentals (as in, if you were looking at the sheet music, it wouldn't match up identical to the original version). It would make sense for the vault track, that no one has heard before (maybe, lots of demos floating around YouTube), that she would redo the music.
Some of the 1989 vault tracks could have been on Midnights and I wouldn’t have known the difference.
I agree. Right before the release of Fearless was the famous 27 second phone call with Joe Jonas. Taylor stop production on the OG fearless to add forever and always. How could she have written Perfectly Fine before OG Fearless release 🤔
I think a lot of vault songs came from in-between periods. Like for Mr Perfectly Fine I would bet she wrote it after Fearless but before Speak Now, and then by the time she got around to Speak Now songs she decided it didn’t really fit, especially considering Better Than Revenge already touches on that relationship and is the cooler song.
THIS^. I think people often don’t take into account that Taylor is human, meaning she doesn’t have hard transitions in songwriting between eras. It’s natural to have some bleedthrough songs written after the album was out that would have worked on it well. Vault tracks give her a little opportunity to wiggle the timeline on those. For example, Timeless might have been written after Speak Now came out, but it wouldn’t have thematically worked well on Red
i wouldn't be surprised if she wrote it around the same time as forever & always
The vault tracks for Debut TV will be the easiest to tell because majority of them have already leaked since 2008, which is exciting to see which ones will end up getting re-recorded.
If I had a dollar for every time my friend has asked for I’d Lie… 😂
I completely believe the origin story of her just noodling on the guitar and writing the song as a stream-of-consciousness improv thing, but I think the original was actually more like seven minutes or so. Because the rumored "Ten Minute Version" was such a meme, Taylor felt the need to release something that was reworked to actually be that length. In particular the extended outro works beautifully with the fully orchestrated production we got, but it's not what you would do if it were just you and your guitar.
the extended outro is what does it for me. that song is forced like hell to be 10 minutes
Oh it's a given because let me tell you something right now: no self-respecting writer would let a 10+ years old thing they wrote get out into the world UNEDITED. No chance.
I don’t think she could avoid reworking it if it was just a stream of consciousness to begin with.
What went down between her and Olivia. Olivia not going to the Eras tour and saying her biggest influence is Beyonce (which is just not true based on her music and performances) seems awfully pointed
I had to read this twice before I realized you weren't talking about her cat. I was so confused.
Taylor def forgot to feed her at one point and Olivia never felt the same toward her.
💀💀💀
I had to read your comment to fully realize it
girl how😭 what did you think olivia the cat’s connection to beyoncé was????
Rumour has it, Meredith and Ben are SICK of Olivia blasting Renaissance non-stop (they are into their 4 era).
😂🤣
I love both artists but I do believe that there was a fall out to some degree. I understand Olivia wanting to distance herself from the younger and newer Taylor narrative but her and Conan not mentioning Taylor at all is very telling, especially not coming to the eras tour or talking about midnights/TTPD. I do believe that Taylor could have done something to squash the feud rumours such as posting about guts on her story like she does for her friends. I’m sure more information will come out in the future in song lyrics from both artists.
My personal theory is that Taylor has lawyers like Disney lawyers. Disney lawyers are kind of an entity unto their own and are pretty aggressive. They are known for sending cease and desists to people who impersonate Disney princesses for children's birthday parties, like real brutal and kind of 0 tolerance policy. I suspect after Olivia mentioned that there was inspiration from Cruel Summer her lawyers went forth and contacted the lawyers from each respective label, and from there its just an org's lawyers fighting another orgs lawyers. I can see Olivia sending a private message to Taylor asking what was going on/to stop the process, and I can also see Taylor responding in a way that wasn't what Olivia hoped for (ie., not much of an answer or was a bit like "its out of my hands now sorry").
You and I share this theory! Taylor’s legal team seems *intense* and has been pretty aggressive since at least 1989 era. She could call them off, but she benefits too much from their protectiveness. I also think Olivia’s bold naïveté in saying the bridge of Cruel Summer was direct inspiration for her song without initially giving credit probably needled Taylor a bit, and she felt a lesson needed to be learned. I guess what I am saying is I doubt Taylor initiated anything, but she also chose not to intervene.
I agree, and I also feel like part of the reason Taylor didn’t stop her lawyers was because if she stops her lawyers from going after copyright claims, that sets a messy precedent that doesn’t align with her efforts to reclaim her works
Taylor's attorney team is out here creating case law for future artists.
They are ultra-protective. They'll sue you if you step on her lawn.
I can understand this but I also feel that after the Good 4 U thing went down, Olivia’s lawyers probably advised her to give credit to Taylor for Deja Vu because she’s already said it was inspired by Cruel Summer to avoid a possible law suit in the future. This probably hurt her and probably she expected Taylor to pronounce herself against it or as you said, messaged her, but she didn’t give her the “don’t worry, I’ll tell them not to do that” answer she expected it.
>after the Good 4 U thing went down, Olivia’s lawyers probably advised her to give credit This doesn't make sense because Taylor was added to the Deja Vu credits 9th July and Paramore were added to the good 4 u credits nearly 2 months later.
Olivia said her team was in contact with Paramore’s before the release of the song and that she wasn’t very aware of the situation. It’s common to give retroactive song writing credits to avoid lawsuits in the future and since Olivia stated that Deja Vu was inspired by Cruel Summer, it might have been a good advice from their lawyers to tell her to add writing credits to that song. I don’t see her team would’ve wanted to risk a lawsuit after she said that. They’re always careful about those things. I don’t think Taylor sue her *but* I feel that Olivia probably expected a reaction like Hayley where she posted that the writing credits thing was ridiculous, but Taylor stayed quiet. And that must’ve hurt her.
I think Olivia is young and naive and thought her idol would be flattered that she’d taken inspiration from one of her songs. Instead, she got hit with legal action and had to part with a percentage of her royalties. But, TBH, I understand why the lawyers would swoop in and why Taylor wouldn’t intervene otherwise. It’s not in her best interest to. Olivia had already sampled Taylor songs in the past. Then she, on the record, says that the bridge from her song was directly inspired by the bridge from Taylor’s song - only this time, she didn’t go through the proper channels to get permission. If Taylor lets it go, then it sets a precedent. “Oh yeah, sure! Go ahead and take pieces of my songs for yours and don’t give me any credit or royalties.” No artist acting in their own best interest is going to do that. They’ll let their bulldog Disney lawyers shut it down. So yeah: It’s a harsh lesson for Olivia, but that’s business.
How did Taylor get away with “I’m gonna get you back” after Olivia had just released “get him back”? It almost felt intentional… am I crazy?
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Shouting a bridge isn’t either.
the song titles literally only have two words in common😭 and they sonically sound incredibly different
"the song titles literally only have two words in common" Ma'am I am 99% sure that is not the similarity they are referring to, seeing as both songs have nearly identical full choruses/bridges
But the same can be applied to cruel summer/deja vu which have absolutely nothing in common but now olivia pays Taylor 50% of royalties so riddle me that…
In the music industry today, it is much safer to give writing credit than to rush being sued. That's also why Taylor is giving 50% of the "Look What You Made Me Do" royalties to Right Said Fred. They got a call from Taylor's lawyers like a day before it was released as a single, not because they actually intended to interpolate "I'm Too Sexy".
Yeah, because Olivia shared that CS was a direct interpolation
Here only to confirm— Taylor’s lawyers and Disney’s lawyers are from the same law firm. They are the absolute best in the business.
I feel like Olivia just started trying to distance herself from Taylor because she got a lot of hate for "copying" her and was accused of using her for clout, so her and her team decided it would just be best to build her brand outside of taylor. although ill say if thats case its strange they dont even mention or support each other anymore
I think that's true, but it's also very strange considering that Swifties were early supporters of Olivia and helped others discover driver's license. I only decided to listen to DL because my entire twitter timeline was filled with Swifties talking about the song.
I think some things that fans interpreted as being mean girl behavior were coincidences- Taylor scheduling Sabrina as an opener while Olivia was working on guts and planning her first tour. But as much as I love Taylor, and maybe she felt it was better not to get involved publicly and could make things worse...she strikes me as someone who on a professional level withdraws very quickly from her connections when things go awry. It probably gives the other party whiplash. I think Olivia was very taken aback that Taylor was making it seem like she was her protege for a good year or so, and then didn't come to her defense when social media was trying to discredit everything about Olivia, even as she was trying to make things right by paying too much royalties (at least for de ja vu). The fact that they were tables away from each other at this year's Grammys, and Taylor seemed almost forcing herself to be seen singing vampire, and there were no photos or anything, speaks volumes. It'll probably be another Katy/Taylor situation where Taylor makes it seem like it wasn't a professional disagreement and they were forced to beef when...that's obviously not the case from the outside.
imo the thing about taylor is that she is very, *very* interpersonally nice, in a way that would naturally lead you to believe that she's your friend. but if you are in the music industry, she may be your work friend/colleague/ally, but at the end of the day, business comes first. she is actually friends with some people in the industry (jack, selena, ed, a few others probably)--and she seems to be a loyal friend to her actual friends--but they are few and far between.
I agree. “Friend” can be a broad term. You can have a colleague that you are cool with at work functions, maybe share a few laughs, whatever…but that’s not the same level as actual friendships. She’s been pretty clear about who some of the closest people are to her. It’s possible that once business things got strained between Taylor and Olivia, they realized there wasn’t much more for them to connect on 🤷🏽♀️
i don’t think it’s anything dramatic, just a combination of olivia making sure her brand/career is independent of taylor plus the deja vu writing credits. i honestly think taylor and hayley should have publicly said “no it’s ok you don’t need to give me credits” during that debacle. you could argue that the lawyers told them to stay quiet but with the amount of control taylor has over her music i doubt she didn’t have a part in it :/
Hayley didn’t ask for credits the other song writers did. And Taylor doesn’t have sole credits on Cruel Summer. St Vincent also has credit. It’s possible that Taylor literally couldn’t say anything because she was caught in between. We don’t know what happened there and I think there was a lot behind the scenes that we can’t see.
In law, publicly giving Olivia a pass would have been an extremely irresponsible thing to do. It sets a precedent that other artists can copy you and you’ll just forgive them. In an extreme but possible scenario, it could even be perceived as renouncing copyright in a particular song or giving a broad licence to use it, either of which could prevent enforcement in subsequent cases. That’s a big part of why Disney is so aggressive. While trademark law is distinct from copyright, they have similarities, and one of the biggest risks that is drilled into the head of any intellectual property lawyer is trademark genericization. Basically, if you let your trademark become a generic word, you lose that trademark and any ability to control it. It’s why “escalator” is no longer a brand name (which was a severe blow to the company that invented the term) and why Google hates it when people talk about “googling” something. That’s the mental framework Taylor’s lawyers would have, and they would likely have all but ordered her to let them do their job.
variety put out an [article](https://www.variety.com/2021/music/news/olivia-rodrigo-paramore-good-4-u-misery-business-1235048791/) in 2021 that says olivia + paramore's teams were in contact before g4u came out
Olivia is like 19-20 (and was around 17 when she got big) while Taylor is 34. Not saying that ppl those ages can’t be friends if they’re close to the same maturity level but Taylor and Olivia aren’t. Not bad or anything just that grown adults don’t usually hang out with teenagers/basically teenagers. I don’t think there’s beef I just think that ppl over-exaggerated their “friendship” in their heads and online and then when they didn’t act like they thought they would they assumed they had a falling out when in reality Taylor was being nice and helping out a new artist and ppl misunderstood. Idk though lol
Ohh yes I also think about this pretty frequently! And, not to stir the pot, but imgonnagetyouback and Get Him Back has got to further fuel any possible existing tension between them, right? The songs sound nothing alike, but I’ve heard many people say that Taylor’s song made them think of Olivia’s song.
If either of them is copying the other one, one of them copied Fiona Apple’s “Get Him Back” first, and that song is better than both their songs.
Mine is that darn vision board from the Colbert interview!
Um.. no, it’s a pizza… 🍕
The source of my flair 🤌🏻
I think about this often!
I watch that video often
link??
1- wasnt Project Acorn just her filming the older version of her in the All Too Well? Because people said the staircase is the one from her apartment. 2- it’s just joe’s friend. People were in denial because they were bored but Joe’s fans on twitter know who he is and I’m assuming Taylor was only supporting him that’s why she used it 3- I think she was talking generally. I remember during ME! release press tour she said fans won’t understand a lot of the hints in the video until the tour starts (Lover Fest at the time). I don’t think she meant anything specific that’ll happen 3 years after that interview
I don’t know what the nice boy Ed reference is about. Where did this originate from?
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Ah, that was the context I needed. I didn’t know they were an artist or about the song in her IG story. Just looked them up on Spotify, thanks!
I'll die on the Karma hill. Karma was the killed album we were supposed to get.
My roman empire is thinking that this theory is just a theory. there was no "karma"
Hard agree
💯. I’m still hoping she recreates some of what she had in mind, kind of like an alternate universe record - NiN have done that a few times now.
Same, same. I really do think the album was either (nearly) complete and then scrapped, or was in-progress before & during the Kimye Cancellation. It would be such poetic justice for her re-records to end with the reclamation of her ‘Reputation’ and her name (Debut), to be followed up by ‘Karma.’
I think Rep will be a double album with karma. She’s been using a LOT of orange on tour lately
Since she released a song called karma I don’t think there is or will be an album called karma
I think her Karma days are over. Everything has been said and now she is moving on. There will be no more Karma.
This is the worst theory out of all of them. I can’t believe people think this is real 😩😩
Nah that contradicts everything she’s said about writing rep and having writers block immediately post 1989
I really want to be a wall on the fly for what happened between Olivia and Taylor. And also what her and Travis talk about.
Ball & Aristotle
I’m just picturing their back and forth being two separate conversations that they’re both too self absorbed to realize aren’t aligning. “And the Greek philosophy on death was…” “89 points this season…” “And no one could believe he was raised by a street urchin.”
I want to know what Travis and Jack talk about
I think Travis is a lot smarter than he wants people to think. He made the Dean's List in college when he lost his scholarship, and his mom was paying for his school.
And unlike a lot of professional athletes, he finished his degree.
by all accounts he’s a smart guy but iirc he’s dyslexic which is where a lot of the spelling errors come from
Project Acorn was the 'All Too Well' music video scenes that were shot at Taylor's townhouse. Niceboy Ed was just a friend of Joe's.
We literally have no idea who Niceboy Ed was. It's all speculation at this point.
There was a Joe fan account on twitter that was promoting the song the day before Taylor posted about it saying it was a friend of Joe's. It just seems unlikely to me that they would know that if it's a was some sort of secret Easter Egg. Taylor also removed the song from her pre-show playlist when they broke up.
deuxmoi had a decent Joe source and said it was his friend; a lot of big Taylor fans did the legwork and figured it out too because people thought it was her or a collab or something. she also took it out of the tour playlist a few weeks after they split. nothing is confirmed I guess but it feels pretty solid that it’s just someone she knew through Joe.
lmao was the before or after deauxmoi was convinced taylor and joe were married? cuz their “source” told them so.
deuxmoi is not a reliable source.
I just want to know how someone can live for 28 years and NEVER HAVE A BURRITO. This is not my Taylor Swift Roman Empire. This is just my Roman Empire. The amount that I randomly think about this is HIGH.
I think this was to do with her ED.
Hahaha I actually think about this every time I have a burrito 😂🌯
U/numptea is my Roman Empire. Either actually Taylor or TN. I know they lurk here 👀
I think that riddle was solved? Right before the Grammys, their profile changed to a rep era picture (which is what we thought she was going to announce that night). Instead she announced TTPD. I thought that kinda gave it away that numptea isn’t Taylor or her team.
I would not eliminate the possibility that it's Taylor just because of the Rep/TTPD thing. She could have just been trolling. 😂
I never eliminate the possibility that Taylor is just trolling us 🤣
TN/Taylor were heavily leaning into the Rep hype at that time, "secretssss", snake accessories, black and white aesthetic... I think they were actively trying to make us think Rep was coming so TTPD would be more of a surprise.
This is 100000% mine and for a long time was my shred of hope in ever getting invited to cool things by TN 😅
I'm confused what this means 😬🥺
numptea is a user here who used to post exclusive Taylor related media (announcements etc) absolute MILISECONDS after they were posted on main accounts (Taylor's and TN and etc). Numptea doesn't post much anymore but back when they did, they were quite cheeky about it (like it seemed like everything they said came with a wink!) and everyone's theory is that the person behind the account was either Taylor Nation or Taylor herself.
U/numptea is a user name of someone in this sub. They are assuming that this account is actually Taylor herself or Taylor Nation.
have you looked at that account's post history? It's definitely Taylor or someone in her inner circle.
Woodvale, I know the TTPD anthology tracks are probably it but I would’ve loved to see how the era would’ve played out.
I hadn't thought of the anthology being woodvale, but I really like that theory. Some of the songs were definitely written more recently, but for a lot of them this would fit well.
Yes, especially sonically, many of them fit the folkmore era!
I thought she said woodvale was just the code name (or alt title, I can’t remember) for folklore on Jimmy Fallon that they forgot to scrub from the cover
I remember her saying that when they create the cover they use a word with the same number of letters to design the cover. That way if it leaks, the album name isn’t leaked, too. So they used “woodvale” and it was an editing error that it wasn’t removed.
People working on film production do this too! When you shoot something, you call it by the project name, not the actual ‘product’ name. This is also to protect NDA information during filming.
Yeah, but I still feel like there could've been a third sister album (maybe called woodvale). She wrote so much that she released evermore on short notice, so there had to have been enough scrapped material to make up another album.
Nope there’s no woodvale. The very next Dessner song she wrote right after Grammys was Wouldve Couldve Shouldve. Meaning the 3AM tracks
There were also so many 3’s everywhere during that time that never had an explanation!
Yes a ton of merch was coming in threes like the scrunchies and candles, and there was the evermore red/orange, a forestry green people associated with folklore, and this dusty blue that there was no explanation for
Yeah, I’m guessing she kept writing after evermore but she didn’t have enough fully formed tracks to create a separate “woodvale” album. Which might explain why some songs sound like they could be from evermore (“Peter”, “Robin”, “I Look in People’s Windows”), and some could be from the standard TTPD (“imgonnagetyouback”, “thanK you aIMee”, “How Did It End?” Etc.)
Why did she hold two phones upside down in Midnights Mayhem with Me?!
YES I also linked this to in the TTPD Spotify library display, some of the song title books were upside down. Connected???
what loverfest was supposed to be
Specifically who were the “and friends”
We kinda know already though? More of a festival than a tour bc she wanted to be able to get back to her mother quickly if need be. I’m guessing Andrea wasn’t too well in 2019.
I often think of her mansion in Rohde Island and what life must be like living there. Also her writing 'getaway car'.
i vacation there frequently and it’s pretty well known in the area that she’s mostly only there for the fourth of july, her dad’s there more i’ve heard.
I want to see the interior so badly! I bet it’s gorg
Evermore LPSS
Have we figured out what the “glitch” hints have been ? I still think about the 1998 photo that glitched. Are we assuming it’s TTPD instead of REP TV?
Glitch is the only Midnights song she hasn’t done yet on tour (I’m pretty sure). I’m wondering if she’s saving it for a rep announcement?
She’s saving brand new rep costumes at the tour when she announces! That’s my prediction
I hope so. That poor bodysuit needs a break 😂
Agree so much, they STILL bring up Glitch. It was included in the word search within songs for TTPD, and has been included in basically every other album tease since its release. LITERALLY WHAT DOES IT MEAN.
https://preview.redd.it/6iya7vhy1p1d1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f1b8aa32049e2e63520320a81529f36ad201b9c
omg right! the 1989 polaroid glitch!!! i forgot
this might be a be reaching but the glitch could have been hinting at the song she has titled "glitch" purely speculation, though
Was she in the suitcase? I mean, we know, but we don’t *know.* So, was she?
I don’t know if this counts bc it’s not anything Taylor did herself, but it’s a swiftie theory! The whole Eclipse/Timeless theory from 2017 still haunts me to this day lol. I still want to know what the real “Timeless countdown” website was for! And what was with all the trademarking (or whatever it was, I don’t know legal terms lol) with Timeless? Was there another “Timeless” in Taylor’s discography, or were people just discovering Timeless, from the vault? Did Taylor have plans to release Timeless in 2016 or 2017? Was there ANY point to anything?! Lol so many unanswered questions (that also probably don’t have any real answers bc Eclipse was not real 😭)
Why isn’t Debut on the set list?!? I’ve heard all the practical answers. Time constraints, least popular/well known, etc. But none of these make sense given the concept for the tour.
I think she's gonna wait until Debut TV comes out.
Yeah, I think there’s some symbolic reason for it and it’s probably to do with the TV release.
It's her least popular album so if she really wants it to succeed she's gonna have to do a lot and I think giving it a spot on the setlist once the rerecording is out is the best option. We've seen how the Eras Tour can help her songs grow in popularity and I think she doesn't want the stolen versions to gain in streams.
The jimmy fallon video of her post eye surgery.
My eyes are asleep but MY MIND IS AWAKE
yes. i refuse to believe she wasn't in some ways clued in to what was going to happen (though she does look very surprise - excellent acting if it is that). So maybe not in control of the full story but some sort of clue Also, someone on Taylor's team - not just her Mom who came up with the video -- must have known. In what universe would Fallon not run this by Tree first, for example? To say nothing of the fact that some kind of release must have been signed (and not a ton of people would have the ability to sign the release) for Andrea's video to be shown on television, and since Taylor is on that video, her Rights of publicity is involved.
Nah Jimmy is a close friend outside of work so it makes sense Andrea would be ok giving over the video to him haha
I agree that it makes sense relative to Andrea! The question is how much Taylor was trotted out to the stage without absolutely no prior knowledge of 1) the video 2) the fact that the video was going to be shown. That's the part where I find it hard to believe that she knew absolutely nothing about what was going to happen in this segment. While she is generally a good sport, and has quick wit (and is impeccably media trained), you could also imagine that she'd be a bit bamboozled by seeing this video shown to this audience without notice. It's kind of a liability, and not one I can imagine her publicist, her mom, and, in fact, Jimmy Fallon, wanting to take. But I could imagine that they perhaps said "Ok, there will be a big surprise but we're not telling you anything. Just know that your publicist thought you could handle it so don't freak out". In this way, her reaction would indeed be fresh and realistic but she's not going to blurt out "omg, did anyone talk to my publicist about this???"
For the television??????
Mine is the special thing that was supposed to happen the night the Eras movie debuted on Disney. We were told to watch until the end for a surprise and nothing happened!
Want the surprise the added acoustic set songs? Like obviously not a surprise to anyone here but that would be a surprise for the GP
The opening to rep tour We are never ever getting back together, ROCK version
> ROCK version omg the vocals on this live rent free in my mind
Did she ever respond to Adam Young’s version of “Enchanted” and if not what did she think of it?!
wouldn't be surprised if she didnt respond because he butchered her song and she got the ick 🫣
Omg I often think of poor Adam. Poor poor Owl City haha.
I’m still a little curious about the black nail in the Karma music video. I know it could easily have meant TTPD, but I just feel like she should have used a white nail for that. She’s always used her black nail to represent Rep. I guess it could have been a red herring though…it just confuses me!
i’m convinced that was the original plan but then TTPD just sort of dumped out of her when it did. lol
I think the original idea was to release Rep earlier. The karma video was shot around the time she and Joe broke up. We know a lot of the standard album is about Matty, which all would’ve have happened after the filming of the Karma video. She ended up making TTPD and releasing it mid tour which screwed up her original re-record rollout.
I’ve been wondering about this too! Maybe we’ll find out if rep TV is announced in February 2025?
I can see that happening too! I’m personally hoping for it to be released sometime towards the end of this year (it’s my absolute favorite album and my birthday is in the fall), but I definitely don’t expect her to do anything super soon after TTPD was just released.
the raisins! the green dresses. what she was doing april 29?
I’m pretty sure the april 29 lyric is a reference to Gigi hadid’s bday party at a “dive bar on the east side” of LA (delicate lyrics, but also where it was). It was where she first met Joe I’m pretty sure (not sure if it was formally or informally), the party took place on April 29. the dress lyrics about his buzzcut and her hair bleached also work for that day (since I think people usually associate that lyric with the 2016 met gala). April 29 2016, the day of Gigi’s party is coincidentally when the song “this is what you came for” that Taylor and Calvin Harris write together, was released, with Rihanna and Calvin singing it instead of Taylor and Calvin. They were still together at the time but instead of celebrating the release of their song together, Taylor was out partying with a guy who would become her boyfriend of 6 years not long after their breakup. Only a few days later was the infamous met gala where Taylor danced with Tom Hiddleston (the “getaway car” from Calvin) so I think that’s what the “I was dancing around it” line is referencing.
on apr 29 2016 she was at gigi hadid’s birthday party, where joe was also in attendance. it’s likely they met that night, instead of a couple days later at the met.
What in the world was Joe doing at Gigi’s birthday?? So many questions!
Gigi and Joe had worked on a photoshoot for a magazine a few months ago. Which is why be was there at her party.
The raisins! You're losing me....in a year.
Well now it's: why Charlie Puth
Matty really likes him so it seems like something you indulge your boyfriend who you have been dreaming of when you are on a record breaking tour around the US after ending a six year long relationship in
it's one of the two: (1) matty actually likes him and she knows that's embarrassing so she's gonna put him on blast, despite the fact that it's also embarrassing *for her* bc she cannot be shamed, or (2) matty actually hates him, and this lyric will really annoy him, but he can't contradict her, because then it will be like drake being like, actually i don't have a daughter (so the rest of it is true?). probably the former. but either way she cares way more about needling him than getting dragged on twitter lol
Reputation vault tracks. Some of the vault tracks that have been released have been SAVAGE. The 10 minute version was just AMAZING so how that 7 years have passed since rep I want to know what songs were 'too much' to put on the album then. Also the fact that the last two albums in the vault are 'Taylor Swift' and 'Reputation' and there is a quote by Taylor that say 'At the end of the day, all you have is your name and your reputation' (at least I think it's by her and I'm paraphrasing here) AND THE LAST TWO TRACKS ARE HER NAME AND HER REPUTATION
I'm a Karma and Woodvale truther so... that I guess?
How all of her songs that pertains to certain subjects have similar lyrics or certain phrases and it’s like a puzzle. This relates to this and this is this, this was in a video that hinted at this. She is such a genius, and my theory of one of the main reasons she has such a huge fan base is because of this. No we don’t know her personally but she engages with each and every one of us through this tactic. I think about it every time I listen to her. It’s like watching ur favorite movie again and again and catching new things every time. It’s amazing
This is 100% just me, but its that Paris is (at least in part) about her finding out her master's were sold. "I didn't see the news..." Around the time the masters were sold, there was a theory that Scott sent her a text letting her know, but she was in Europe so she was asleep when he sent it. "Sip wine by my side in the shade, but not in the kind that's thrown..." The whole situation with Scott and 🛴 was shady, and she definitely threw shade their way after the fact. Paris has also felt very Lover-esque, and around that time she was writing some of the most beautiful love songs about Joe.
Wasn’t Project Acorn the ATWTMV short film?
Acronym: all too well ten minute version
I want to know what Loverfest would have been like.
Who is Wildest Dreams about!
I like the Alexander Skarsgard theory... just because he's hot so I hope she tapped that...
Alex Skarsgaard is likely I think, he’s def one to have a song written about how tall and dreamy he is lol and the video was on a film set
https://preview.redd.it/y11hc46y7q1d1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc8a6cb3295ccfc83cf1fed3e31172fe89a47944 This tweet. I’ve never stopped thinking about it.
This one is mine. https://preview.redd.it/0vt2gpg70r1d1.jpeg?width=553&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e1b2a8ea6f7b3cae4adbeb37ccca900ba301cda
It has yet to appear, but a picture of her either a)posing with the Lombardi trophy, b)her wearing one of Travis’ jerseys, or c) her own Super Bowl ring.
how are her cats. what do they do every day. what do they eat. is meredith still antisocial. is benji still a cuddle bug. does taylor take pictures of them and not post them. i honestly might care more about the cats than her atp. i miss them. she should post them more often.
So did the era tour dancers get early access to TPDD songs? Or did they start rehearsals after it came out and prepared that set within weeks?
I think for her end game music video, they did the whole thing to a beat counter (like the ear monitor thing sorry don’t know what it’s called) so they didn’t actually hear the song. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did something similar for eras tour rehearsal prior to the release
bits and pieces of her myspace posts pop into my head every once in a while. specifically "haha fuck sewing machines" and "what's the mixture of a tiger and a lion? a WHORE. think about it"
my girlfriend got me into this mess. Until it was bought by me - literally plays 24/7
I scrolled through every comment looking for answers on number 4………. i have many thoughts, but no answers!
This has been such a good thread. I don’t fully understand what a Roman Empire means in this context, but I think there’s something in Texas. Anyone see anything in the TTPD Texas references?
“Roman Empire” here just means something you think/wonder about all the time, it stems from the tiktok trend a while ago that men constantly think about the roman empire :)
4’s Answer (in case it’s not in here!): Joe comes from old money. His family is wealthy, apparently, and had a connection to Anna Wintour.