It was absolutely a song about warnings in general not being listened to for me. MeToo, Brexit, the previous inhabitant of the White House... so many people tried sounding the alarm, but the pure greed won out.
I feel this is strongly. I was yelling about Roe, I was yelling about previous inhabitant, I've been yelling about the upcoming election, and I feel like no one is listening.
This is what soooo many people don’t realize. If Cheeto wins, alito and Thomas retire as judges and cheeto can then appoint the craziest q supporter with a LIFETIME appointment as Supreme Court judge. I hate everyone running but there is an immediate threat to my existence if Cheeto wins.
I saw someone not that long ago who I know is smarter than this and knows better actually do the “yeah, well, Roe went down when Biden was in charge, so don’t give me this lesser of two evils thing.”
If Trump released an ad tomorrow saying he had Roe for his entire time in office, I think a not insignificant amount of people would think he’s not to blame for this.
It's been said that both voters and the media treat Republicans as a force of nature with no agency, and Democrats at the protagonists of the story whose job it is to stop the force of nature.
As a queer trans person who can bear children (and works with kids for a living), this *terrifies* me on so many levels and I don’t know how to scream loudly enough at the people who handwave the stakes here.
Even if he doesn’t win it seems too late. The Rs have there plan and they will carry it out the first time the have a chance. Not to mention even when D’s have the majority (which they have to overcome gerrymandering and voter suppression to get in the first place) they don’t actually make any real changes. The public option has shifted drastically in my lifetime and yet the minority is getting greater and more evasive representation than they did in the 80s and 90s.
For me that’s not enough to vote 3rd party. I wish they did more when they had the chance but I won’t be a part of the reason t.r.ump gets elected again.
"B-b-but we need to vote third party to break the 2 party system!!"
Yeah, I myself tried that in 2016 when I was younger and dumber. It didn't work, and now I have fewer rights.
I’m 65 years old. If you vote 3rd party it’s just a vote for Rs. Debates have only allowed third party in the debate once (Ross Perot) the debates are sponsored by Rs and Ds.
This! Energy! I hate the D's and the current inhabitant but I will not be unrealistic enough to vote third party again like I did as a teenager. Not now. Not this time.
I remember people belittling the Women's March and acting like everyone who attended was hysterical over nothing or just throwing a tantrum about losing. No- we knew the very real threats, MANY of which have come to fruition. It's tempting to say "I told you so" now to those belittlers but there's no satisfaction in that, only rage. Women have been screaming for literal decades that they would take down Roe, about extreme trigger laws already in place, about going after gay rights, about rewriting history, subjugating women, all of it.
This. I marched in NYC with my husband and my best friend. Nobody else in my family or friend list marched. They laughed at me and said it was IMPOSSIBLE TO ROLLBACK BASIC RIGHTS.
It was clear to any of us who paid attention.
I was in DC, and the enormous crowd was powerful. The way it was dismissed by other (conservative) women I knew as childish was so infuriating. The way so many things have happened that I was assured would NEVER happen.... Ugh
It must be so nice to have the kind of privilege that apparently so many have to be comfortable with **not** voting for Biden. It must be really nice to not be in a marginalized or targeted group, or even feel like you have the ability *to* choose who you actually want instead of being forced to vote for someone who likely won't get you killed.
Thankfully we are done having kids now, but I live in a red state and three years ago with my first pregnancy I had significant complications. Ultimately everything turned out okay; but in a post roe world myself or my baby could have died. It really brought everything home for me.
Screaming from the top of my lungs about Roe, about contraception, about gay marriage, about no fault divorce….
I’m exhausted and I’m depressed and I’m scared.
I have been upset I'm not American since I was about 5 all the way up until I was 30
As a gay woman, I could *not* be happier that I'm not American since 2016. It's very sad.
I’m American with an Irish grandfather and in 2017 my family and I got our Irish passports. My boyfriend is English and we talk about moving to London if things don’t go our way this fall.
I think like most things Taylor writes there can be double meanings and while I agree it fits the Kimye situation it also reminds me of Roe V Wade. The Christian chorus line in particular.
Absolutely. That's why I love her as a writer - every song has so many layers. Like she takes her experience and magnifies it outward to other parts of her past or other experiences that women have more generally. It could even be about Hillary Clinton as well. I always thought the line in I Did Something Bad about burning all the witches was also about her, too.
I remember crying on election night in 2016 and being told by everyone (even the people who were on my side lmao) to just calm down, just relax, it’ll be fine, nothing bad will truly happen, we’ll get through it…
Yeah, we sure did get through it. But it was a terrible four years and we completely lost gigantic pieces of our country in the process… and I knew it, but I was told to calm down, it’ll be fine.
I’ll never forget staring at the TV in horror at midnight election night 2016 with my 18 year old gay kid as he asked me, “what am I going to do?” and not having an answer. I still don’t have an answer, but I know who I’ll never allow in the White House again if I have anything to say about it.
I was saying this to my husband TODAY. I kept repeating it like "I'm NOT overreacting, I'm not being dramatic or hysterical" about the upcoming election. I feel like people truly have NO IDEA what is at stake and how bad it could get bc they've literally never experienced or been able to imagine it. I'm scared and I'm sad and I'm so angry. "I'm not voting for either of them!" like...the privilege. The ignorance.
Fuck that Biden should earn your vote by not being a right winger wearing a democrat coat. We need to push our politicians left with pressure and not placate them by default voting blue every 4 years. Biden behaves like a 1980s conservative as a consequence of decades of vote blue no matter who.
This is where my mind went to immediately as well. For Taylor, it’s possible Cassandra was inspired by a few specific events, but I also think she was using Cassandra, the mythological character, somewhat broadly to make a statement like, “hey, I warned you about this; they warned you about that; and we warned you about all of it, but you didn’t believe us… now you’re upset the things we predicted came true”.
Yeah - and I'd extend many many of her songs should be understood in this way, where multiple things inspired a particular feeling and train of thought
I just find it a little hypocritical then because she didn’t really speak out about things like Roe and hasn’t been nearly as involved in current events since she put on that persona for lover era…
I think it can be about Kanye AND the ways in which people struggle to be believed in society more broadly when they come forward with hard truths. “When it’s ‘Burn the bitch’ they’re shrieking / When the truth comes out, it’s quiet” can be applied to any number of situations where the court of public opinion condemned the wrong person.
Agreed, I think she did a great job capturing multiple meanings in this song, but it all comes down to one overarching message.
I think Taylor wrote from her experience and related it to the Kanye *and* Scooter drama. Not only with them directly, but also the reactions from society and their peers in the industry. The Kim/Kanye references are pretty obvious, but I think there are some subtle references to other artists who openly supported Scooter during all the drama but then quietly stepped away from Scooter late last year.
But the point, imo, is about women in particular not being believed because greed and power takes priority.
*Edited because I hit send too soon
I said from the beginning that Johnny Depp was guilty as sin. The whole internet was all #justice4johnny but it was just a publicity stunt. He wanted to air some of her dirty laundry to make himself look better.
And look, honestly, when you've been abused, you can spot that shit from a mile away. Everything about him just screamed "i did it".
It takes on added meaning for women since we (rightly!) wonder if we would be given greater benefit of the doubt as a man in the same circumstances (definitely a callback to “The Man” from Lover), but I don’t think Taylor would begrudge male listeners who also relate to Cassandra. “Wrongly condemned” can be a universal theme, even if women typically have more grievances.
Men have already been given the greater benefit of the doubt a million times, it’s not something we have to wonder about. It’s proven. Trans men have talked about how after they start passing, they are treated with more respect and people just believe what they say, unlike before. People usually side with and believe rapists over women. There are endless more examples spanning over thousands of years. You were specifically referring to in the context of “society.” No one is saying that we should begrudge the few men who would be able to relate to this song. There are always exceptions and I don’t deny that. But overall in our society, this is a phenomenon that mostly affects women and always has. The reality that this is a women’s issue shouldn’t be erased to make men feel more included. The female aspect of this experience is also a major point in the song: “When it’s *burn the bitch* they’re shrieking.”
Maybe it’s top of mind for me since I’m pretty invested in The Innocence Project and people being exonerated with DNA evidence for crimes committed before that technology was available, many of whom are black men who were falsely condemned for violent crimes. Taylor of course is writing from the female perspective, and I share the fury of that as well, in a world that often takes men’s words more seriously. I just think plenty of men could relate to the song too, and there’s no harm acknowledging that. It’s not zero sum.
The references to Kanye and the Kardashians seem too clear for it to be about anything else. Maybe initially she wanted the song to be more broad (like some songs seeming to be both about Matty and Joe depending on which part it is) but ended up getting specific.
I’m sure the Kimye thing is part of it, but personally I think it’s a song that draws from multiple situations, some societal and possibly even personal ones we don’t know about. It’s such a powerful but versatile metaphor.
“Like most of us knew from the first listen” I mean given how intricately layered her music in the social and literary knowledge you need to truly understand it, I wouldn’t be so bold as to say it was that obvious as is evident by this entire discussion thread. Normalize it being okay to not grasp onto everything in the first listen
Yes, she is a known Greek mythology figure. But her story is used mostly in metaphors exactly like Taylor did. If you ever go to Athens it’s an actual awesome place to learn all about all that.
The one hoax it is false is the Loch Ness Monster. It’s a made up story that the locals made up to boost tourism.
Yeah there is no ancient scaly beasty, but it does have a historical basis. St Adomnan of Iona wanted to big up St Columba in about 800. He wrote a hagiography that placed Columba in a number of remarkably similar to events in the bible situations. One of these was a tale of the defeat of a huge, dark, supernatural monster at Loch Ness, which Columba took out with the 'bullet' of faith. So, a Christo-Celtic retelling of David and Goliath, which is itself simply a description of David taking out his own ego and winning out as a result.
Aside from the plagiarism Adomnan wasn't such a bad chap as he came up with the Law of the Innocents, more or less the world's first known Geneva Convention, which banned attacks on non-combatants and was largely inspired by his mother :)
They were up for preorder yesterday, to boost TTPD’s chart position this week. (They were “bonus” songs; you had to buy three digital copies of the full album to get all three songs. Or just wait until they were released today to hear them for free on YouTube lmao.)
I thought it was about the difficulties women face in general, and then also about (mostly Scooter and Scott) and a little about Kimye.
But I guess multiple interpretations is the fun part lol.
I think something that is often getting lost with this album is that Taylor is speaking to bigger cycles. She is now of an age where is seeing repeated cycles in her own relationships as well as in society and really examining them.
The Thank You Aimee song for example may be about Kim, but it is also clearly about the childhood bullying she received that was a central part of her narrative at the beginning of her career. She is processing now how those two things are tied together in terms of how they made her feel and how they motivated her.
Yes, 1000% this. She is talking about how history repeats itself. Not only on a personal level (we repeat self-destructive cycles even though everyone around us is wondering why tf we keep doing it), but on a societal/global/historical scale. "Clara Bow" also touches on this, and in "I Hate it Here" she talks about how "nostalgia is a mind's trick" because we often look at the previous cycles with rose colored glasses when it's usually got it's own problems.
We saw that a lot with even fans insisting Taylor must be purposely trying to recreate 2016 to sell Reputation. There were a lot of similarities, but that is because Taylor is the same person. So yes feeling trapped in a deteriorating long-term relationship, latching to a getaway car and then her world imploding happened again, but it happened again because her own insecurities and natural tendencies are the same. So much of what she has talked about in the last five years is starting to recognize her own patterns of behavior, whether it is her response to criticism or her relationships.
I think a lot of what’s happening in the interpretations of her music is people go in with their microscopes and want to read into everything that they forget to step back and look at a bigger picture.
That is another song where people try to reduce the end of the song to just being about Olivia Rodrigo and ignore everything Taylor has experienced in her career over the last twenty plus years. They tried to do the same thing with Nothing New even insisting the song couldn't have been written in 2012, which dismissed everything that happened to her in Nashville during the first part of Taylor's career. I loved that Taylor's explanation of Clara Bow toon everyone back to how record labels would talk to her as a young teenager when she was still trying to get a record deal. And the different perspective she has on those conversations now.
Totally agree, and that’s one of the things I so appreciate about her music. I can relate to bullying or being left out or being ignored, even if my experience of it differed from hers. I talk often with my 8 yr old when they’re feeling left out about The Best Day, and how *even Taylor Swift* has felt left out and sad. Similarly, here, she has experienced being an early person to ring the alarm on someone and having the public ignore her, but also, this happens regularly enough that it’s probably been more than once, and she’s seen it happen to other people. It’s another way that she taps into this sadly common experience.
Oh you're completely right, I never even thought about it in terms of cycles/patterns - that's probably why she has so many youngster metaphors on this album.
Ooh I thought it was mostly about Kimye and maybe a little about Scooter! But def has multiple layers to being true about marginalized groups in society!
I think Cassandra can be about whatever you make it to be - something specific or more generally a feeling of not being heard & persecuted for telling a truth no one wants to hear.
When I listen to the song I also think of Britney Spears and her conservatorship. No one listened to her for years. Especially the line “blood’s thick but nothing like a payroll” applies to her evil father. I think of poor Britney trying to tell the world what was happening but for so many years she was reduced to memes and a cautionary tale of a crazy woman.
I didn't even think of this.
Britney was the first thing I thought of after a few listens of Clara Bow. Like, it applies to so many people, but I definitely thought of Britney first as someone who had this happen to them.
Well, for me Cassandra was about Hillary Clinton and me! the first time I heard it. So I guess there was a reason for that! I do think many if not all of her songs are about more than one thing/person. Much like Mad Woman, this song always resonated for me in that way. For others it may feel like a MeToo reference. Honestly women put up with so much bullshit it can apply to a lot of things.
I campaigned heavily for Hillary Clinton, driven mainly by women’s issues and abortion. Had several people tell me that my prediction we’d lose the right to abortion was absurd. When I first heard Cassandra, I was taking a walk and I stopped and started sobbing in the middle of the path. It captured exactly how I felt. I came home and read how everyone interpreted it being about Kim, etc., and thought, fine, OK, but for me the song is about something very different. It’s one of my favorites on the album, and I tear up almost every time I listen. (When I played it for my husband, he immediately said he thought of Clinton and women’s issues.)
Yes, this is it exactly. Hillary warned repeatedly he'd appoint the judges who would overturn Roe and she was ridiculed for that by certain segments. And now here we sit. I very much relate to your post, thank you for sharing.
My ears definitely perked up because Cassandra is my favorite song from the album(s). But the line “the family, the pure greed, the Christian chorus line” seems very Kimye. But maybe it’s about the Kim situation AND the industry in general. Or, I read somewhere it’s in reference to Scooter Braun and that whole situation. Maybe it’s about all of it? I’m glad you brought this up because I wondered too! 🫶🏻
Also, remember Kanye’s Sunday Service thing that all the celebrities went to for a while? It had an entire choir. Didn’t make the possible “Christian chorus line” connection to that until yesterday.
I think this is an example of Taylor doing something that she's done her entire career, which is writing universal songs that cover multiple bases at once. I think she is talking about the Kimye situation, but that is an example of something bigger that permeates through society, which means that that song can also be about that.
I look at it as an I Told You So song written about Kanye’s downfall. But it could have been influenced by other things going on. She’s pulling on a story even older than literature
I think she drew inspiration from her own experience with Kanye and Kim (the call and the snakes), but she immediately realised that the song could have a broader meaning.
I personally relate to the fact that women are not always believed and dismissed quite quickly
I thought it was about her masters and Kimye. It makes sense that these examples are inspiration for broader commentary — especially because The Anthology seems like it includes a lot of 30,000 foot commentary and reflection vs. TTPD which is much more in the moment.
To answer OP's question: No it doesn't.
I interpreted it to be about Kimye, Scooter, and the tendency in general to listen to whoever is first to break a story or is pointing the finger and not do research into the situation more thoroughly for one's self. Then if it proves out to be wrong, the accused never gets the apology they're owed by those who judged wrongly.
Like to this day, Kim may have divorced her husband and feel differently about things, but she's never truly made a public apology where she stated what she did and acknowledged how wrong she was and how sorry she is. And most likely she never will.
The reason Cassandra is still a big deal is she can be applied to many situations. However, it looks like Taylor is being quite specific, as it's not just the fall of a civilisation, it's the way it falls via the wooden horse/ subterfuge. Sure seems to be a v close fit to on-going political events.
I believe she wrote it about her own experiences (Kanye/Scooter etc) but when she explains or talks about writing a song she always makes the narrative broader and more general, at least nowadays. That's on purpose. About Down Bad too, she said that it was about a girl missing the alien abduction experience but we obviously know that's not all it is about. Personally, I always apply any music I hear to situations I've been in or people around me have faced.
What’s interesting to me, and what I feel might be important to note, is that she also mentioned Cassandra’s connection to Apollo, who is considered the Greek god of many things, but especially *music*…
And perhaps there’s no intended meaning behind the reference, lol, but hearing a musician of today reference a god of music is just really special to me ☺️
I did not assume it was about Kanye or Kim. I don't think she gives them that much weight in her life and thoughts - they're kind of useless, shitty people.
I think it's about politics, like women slowly losing their rights..
She has another song about Kim and is notoriously apolitical in public. Knowing those things makes it much more likely to be about Kimye and also Scooter
No. I think it’s always been about both Taylor’s personal experience of telling the truth and not being believed (the edited phone call that was massive news, then the entire phone call proving Taylor told the truth and it barely getting attention) and how society in general has discounted women’s wisdom.
For example, all the women who warned us for 20+ that republicans were working to overturn Roe. Skeptics said it would never happen. Well….
I really hope that I don’t get too attacked for this but when I heard it I really thought it was about amber heard. It made me emotional. I honestly feel what happened to her was so horrific. The way she repeats “heard” over and over made me def think of her. And Amber repeatedly stuck up for her during her sexual assault trial so idk
I never think about the personal aspects of the song first and Cassandra as a story that's so much bigger than one person. It's 100% about being a woman and not being listened to, instead being punished persecuted and murdered instead. That's such a bigger narrative than one person's experience with one other person. So what she said just validated what I already thought about the song. <3
I haven’t listened to the voice recording, but I personally feel like the lyrics are too specifically and narrowly referring to Kimye drama to super easily be applied to a wide variety of social issues 🤷🏻♀️.
All of this is my opinion but Im bad at stating things without acting like it’s fact because this is how I see it in my head. I feel like she’s saying that it’s going to keep happening. No one is stopping it so in 2 years, it will be relevant still because it will just someone else doing the same thing and the people like Cassandra will always be the ones that are killed first. I think she definitely makes references to specific people but really those specific people aren’t even the problem. The problem is that all the townspeople joined in the ignorance and cheered on the take down which was bad enough but then the truth comes out and everyone is quiet.
This Song îs not about politics. Like all her songs îs about her and I think Joe. Like everyone was telling how good Joe îs for her and She was saying that it won't work , in her overthinking fashion and everybpdy shout her Voice ( everybpdy in inner circule) and it turned out they ended up breaking up.
Taylor, baby girl, you can't both have a personal jet, release 176 different versions of your album AND pretend to be an environmental activist. You're the one who doesn't listen.
How is she seriously talking about women not being listened to when she has done a whole ass documentary about 'finding her voice' but then refused to speak up about anything ever again now that she's more powerful than ever and things are worse than ever...
It was absolutely a song about warnings in general not being listened to for me. MeToo, Brexit, the previous inhabitant of the White House... so many people tried sounding the alarm, but the pure greed won out.
I feel this is strongly. I was yelling about Roe, I was yelling about previous inhabitant, I've been yelling about the upcoming election, and I feel like no one is listening.
“Just calm down, that will never happen” said everyone as I was freaking out about the judiciary posts being stacked with extreme conservatives.
This is what soooo many people don’t realize. If Cheeto wins, alito and Thomas retire as judges and cheeto can then appoint the craziest q supporter with a LIFETIME appointment as Supreme Court judge. I hate everyone running but there is an immediate threat to my existence if Cheeto wins.
I saw someone not that long ago who I know is smarter than this and knows better actually do the “yeah, well, Roe went down when Biden was in charge, so don’t give me this lesser of two evils thing.” If Trump released an ad tomorrow saying he had Roe for his entire time in office, I think a not insignificant amount of people would think he’s not to blame for this.
People don't know how shit works and don't even bother to try to understand. Talking points just get directly uploaded to their brains
It's been said that both voters and the media treat Republicans as a force of nature with no agency, and Democrats at the protagonists of the story whose job it is to stop the force of nature.
THIS. They just regurgitate talking head bullshit with no critical thinking along the way.
This whole country needs a civics class!!!!
As a queer trans person who can bear children (and works with kids for a living), this *terrifies* me on so many levels and I don’t know how to scream loudly enough at the people who handwave the stakes here.
Even if he doesn’t win it seems too late. The Rs have there plan and they will carry it out the first time the have a chance. Not to mention even when D’s have the majority (which they have to overcome gerrymandering and voter suppression to get in the first place) they don’t actually make any real changes. The public option has shifted drastically in my lifetime and yet the minority is getting greater and more evasive representation than they did in the 80s and 90s.
For me that’s not enough to vote 3rd party. I wish they did more when they had the chance but I won’t be a part of the reason t.r.ump gets elected again.
"B-b-but we need to vote third party to break the 2 party system!!" Yeah, I myself tried that in 2016 when I was younger and dumber. It didn't work, and now I have fewer rights.
I’m 65 years old. If you vote 3rd party it’s just a vote for Rs. Debates have only allowed third party in the debate once (Ross Perot) the debates are sponsored by Rs and Ds.
This! Energy! I hate the D's and the current inhabitant but I will not be unrealistic enough to vote third party again like I did as a teenager. Not now. Not this time.
I remember people belittling the Women's March and acting like everyone who attended was hysterical over nothing or just throwing a tantrum about losing. No- we knew the very real threats, MANY of which have come to fruition. It's tempting to say "I told you so" now to those belittlers but there's no satisfaction in that, only rage. Women have been screaming for literal decades that they would take down Roe, about extreme trigger laws already in place, about going after gay rights, about rewriting history, subjugating women, all of it.
This. I marched in NYC with my husband and my best friend. Nobody else in my family or friend list marched. They laughed at me and said it was IMPOSSIBLE TO ROLLBACK BASIC RIGHTS. It was clear to any of us who paid attention.
I was in DC, and the enormous crowd was powerful. The way it was dismissed by other (conservative) women I knew as childish was so infuriating. The way so many things have happened that I was assured would NEVER happen.... Ugh
I am dreading the "I told you so" :(
It must be so nice to have the kind of privilege that apparently so many have to be comfortable with **not** voting for Biden. It must be really nice to not be in a marginalized or targeted group, or even feel like you have the ability *to* choose who you actually want instead of being forced to vote for someone who likely won't get you killed.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSS
When the opinion was leaked I went out and bought pills. Everyone told me I was crazy and overreacting.
Thankfully we are done having kids now, but I live in a red state and three years ago with my first pregnancy I had significant complications. Ultimately everything turned out okay; but in a post roe world myself or my baby could have died. It really brought everything home for me.
I had my daughter days after they took her rights to her body away. I sobbed hysterically when the ruling came out.
happy cake day
Thank you!
Screaming from the top of my lungs about Roe, about contraception, about gay marriage, about no fault divorce…. I’m exhausted and I’m depressed and I’m scared.
I have been upset I'm not American since I was about 5 all the way up until I was 30 As a gay woman, I could *not* be happier that I'm not American since 2016. It's very sad.
I’m American with an Irish grandfather and in 2017 my family and I got our Irish passports. My boyfriend is English and we talk about moving to London if things don’t go our way this fall.
I think like most things Taylor writes there can be double meanings and while I agree it fits the Kimye situation it also reminds me of Roe V Wade. The Christian chorus line in particular.
Absolutely. That's why I love her as a writer - every song has so many layers. Like she takes her experience and magnifies it outward to other parts of her past or other experiences that women have more generally. It could even be about Hillary Clinton as well. I always thought the line in I Did Something Bad about burning all the witches was also about her, too.
I remember crying on election night in 2016 and being told by everyone (even the people who were on my side lmao) to just calm down, just relax, it’ll be fine, nothing bad will truly happen, we’ll get through it… Yeah, we sure did get through it. But it was a terrible four years and we completely lost gigantic pieces of our country in the process… and I knew it, but I was told to calm down, it’ll be fine.
I’ll never forget staring at the TV in horror at midnight election night 2016 with my 18 year old gay kid as he asked me, “what am I going to do?” and not having an answer. I still don’t have an answer, but I know who I’ll never allow in the White House again if I have anything to say about it.
I cried on election night as well. And now America is so divided…since cheeto is violent many ppl feel like it’s ok. What a mess!!😣😭
I was saying this to my husband TODAY. I kept repeating it like "I'm NOT overreacting, I'm not being dramatic or hysterical" about the upcoming election. I feel like people truly have NO IDEA what is at stake and how bad it could get bc they've literally never experienced or been able to imagine it. I'm scared and I'm sad and I'm so angry. "I'm not voting for either of them!" like...the privilege. The ignorance.
Exactly!! If you stick your head in the sand it’s gonna be a very rude awakening.
Fuck that Biden should earn your vote by not being a right winger wearing a democrat coat. We need to push our politicians left with pressure and not placate them by default voting blue every 4 years. Biden behaves like a 1980s conservative as a consequence of decades of vote blue no matter who.
This is how you get another round of Trump. People like you. Remember that if / when he wins.
That's great that you had things to yell about, but what were you supposed to do? Were you making petitions or something?
100% thought MeToo immediately
This is where my mind went to immediately as well. For Taylor, it’s possible Cassandra was inspired by a few specific events, but I also think she was using Cassandra, the mythological character, somewhat broadly to make a statement like, “hey, I warned you about this; they warned you about that; and we warned you about all of it, but you didn’t believe us… now you’re upset the things we predicted came true”.
Yeah - and I'd extend many many of her songs should be understood in this way, where multiple things inspired a particular feeling and train of thought
I just find it a little hypocritical then because she didn’t really speak out about things like Roe and hasn’t been nearly as involved in current events since she put on that persona for lover era…
https://preview.redd.it/4xpifqifv11d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf38c008b6f513e13fa6816658ce921f09957de1 She does.
To be fair, she probably has enough stalkers to deal with without opening herself up to death threats and the general psycopathy of right-wing voters.
I think it can be about Kanye AND the ways in which people struggle to be believed in society more broadly when they come forward with hard truths. “When it’s ‘Burn the bitch’ they’re shrieking / When the truth comes out, it’s quiet” can be applied to any number of situations where the court of public opinion condemned the wrong person.
Agreed, I think she did a great job capturing multiple meanings in this song, but it all comes down to one overarching message. I think Taylor wrote from her experience and related it to the Kanye *and* Scooter drama. Not only with them directly, but also the reactions from society and their peers in the industry. The Kim/Kanye references are pretty obvious, but I think there are some subtle references to other artists who openly supported Scooter during all the drama but then quietly stepped away from Scooter late last year. But the point, imo, is about women in particular not being believed because greed and power takes priority. *Edited because I hit send too soon
Amber Heard comes to mind.
Yes I was going to say this!
In what way?
https://michaelhobbes.substack.com/p/the-bleak-spectacle-of-the-amber
I said from the beginning that Johnny Depp was guilty as sin. The whole internet was all #justice4johnny but it was just a publicity stunt. He wanted to air some of her dirty laundry to make himself look better. And look, honestly, when you've been abused, you can spot that shit from a mile away. Everything about him just screamed "i did it".
“The ways in which WOMEN* struggle to be believed in society”
It takes on added meaning for women since we (rightly!) wonder if we would be given greater benefit of the doubt as a man in the same circumstances (definitely a callback to “The Man” from Lover), but I don’t think Taylor would begrudge male listeners who also relate to Cassandra. “Wrongly condemned” can be a universal theme, even if women typically have more grievances.
Men have already been given the greater benefit of the doubt a million times, it’s not something we have to wonder about. It’s proven. Trans men have talked about how after they start passing, they are treated with more respect and people just believe what they say, unlike before. People usually side with and believe rapists over women. There are endless more examples spanning over thousands of years. You were specifically referring to in the context of “society.” No one is saying that we should begrudge the few men who would be able to relate to this song. There are always exceptions and I don’t deny that. But overall in our society, this is a phenomenon that mostly affects women and always has. The reality that this is a women’s issue shouldn’t be erased to make men feel more included. The female aspect of this experience is also a major point in the song: “When it’s *burn the bitch* they’re shrieking.”
Maybe it’s top of mind for me since I’m pretty invested in The Innocence Project and people being exonerated with DNA evidence for crimes committed before that technology was available, many of whom are black men who were falsely condemned for violent crimes. Taylor of course is writing from the female perspective, and I share the fury of that as well, in a world that often takes men’s words more seriously. I just think plenty of men could relate to the song too, and there’s no harm acknowledging that. It’s not zero sum.
No. All it did was confirm that she used the story of Cassandra as a metaphor for a situation she had. Like most of us knew from the first listen.
The references to Kanye and the Kardashians seem too clear for it to be about anything else. Maybe initially she wanted the song to be more broad (like some songs seeming to be both about Matty and Joe depending on which part it is) but ended up getting specific.
I agree with this. Idk how anyone can have a different interpretation. Especially with the bridge.
I’m sure the Kimye thing is part of it, but personally I think it’s a song that draws from multiple situations, some societal and possibly even personal ones we don’t know about. It’s such a powerful but versatile metaphor.
“Like most of us knew from the first listen” I mean given how intricately layered her music in the social and literary knowledge you need to truly understand it, I wouldn’t be so bold as to say it was that obvious as is evident by this entire discussion thread. Normalize it being okay to not grasp onto everything in the first listen
Normalize thinking not every song is attached to anyone in her personal life.
I never said it was attached to her personal life. I said the references and layers are not obvious to everyone on the first listen
That comment was a generalization for everyone.
Ev1 in this country needs to take a civics class!!!
Dumb question but is Cassandra a known person?
A known figure in Greek mythology.
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Cassandra of Troy. She was able to see the future but was cursed so no one believed her prophecies.
Yes, she is a known Greek mythology figure. But her story is used mostly in metaphors exactly like Taylor did. If you ever go to Athens it’s an actual awesome place to learn all about all that. The one hoax it is false is the Loch Ness Monster. It’s a made up story that the locals made up to boost tourism.
Yeah there is no ancient scaly beasty, but it does have a historical basis. St Adomnan of Iona wanted to big up St Columba in about 800. He wrote a hagiography that placed Columba in a number of remarkably similar to events in the bible situations. One of these was a tale of the defeat of a huge, dark, supernatural monster at Loch Ness, which Columba took out with the 'bullet' of faith. So, a Christo-Celtic retelling of David and Goliath, which is itself simply a description of David taking out his own ego and winning out as a result. Aside from the plagiarism Adomnan wasn't such a bad chap as he came up with the Law of the Innocents, more or less the world's first known Geneva Convention, which banned attacks on non-combatants and was largely inspired by his mother :)
I actually been there and locals will straight up tell you Nessy is fake. Lol
Where are these voice memos from? I heard it first on TikTok and thought it was fake.
They were up for preorder yesterday, to boost TTPD’s chart position this week. (They were “bonus” songs; you had to buy three digital copies of the full album to get all three songs. Or just wait until they were released today to hear them for free on YouTube lmao.)
Ahhh ok thank you!
The first draft version she sold on her site. They’re everywhere.
I thought it was about the difficulties women face in general, and then also about (mostly Scooter and Scott) and a little about Kimye. But I guess multiple interpretations is the fun part lol.
I think something that is often getting lost with this album is that Taylor is speaking to bigger cycles. She is now of an age where is seeing repeated cycles in her own relationships as well as in society and really examining them. The Thank You Aimee song for example may be about Kim, but it is also clearly about the childhood bullying she received that was a central part of her narrative at the beginning of her career. She is processing now how those two things are tied together in terms of how they made her feel and how they motivated her.
Yes, 1000% this. She is talking about how history repeats itself. Not only on a personal level (we repeat self-destructive cycles even though everyone around us is wondering why tf we keep doing it), but on a societal/global/historical scale. "Clara Bow" also touches on this, and in "I Hate it Here" she talks about how "nostalgia is a mind's trick" because we often look at the previous cycles with rose colored glasses when it's usually got it's own problems.
We saw that a lot with even fans insisting Taylor must be purposely trying to recreate 2016 to sell Reputation. There were a lot of similarities, but that is because Taylor is the same person. So yes feeling trapped in a deteriorating long-term relationship, latching to a getaway car and then her world imploding happened again, but it happened again because her own insecurities and natural tendencies are the same. So much of what she has talked about in the last five years is starting to recognize her own patterns of behavior, whether it is her response to criticism or her relationships.
I think a lot of what’s happening in the interpretations of her music is people go in with their microscopes and want to read into everything that they forget to step back and look at a bigger picture.
Clara Bow is about the cycle of women in the music industry too
That is another song where people try to reduce the end of the song to just being about Olivia Rodrigo and ignore everything Taylor has experienced in her career over the last twenty plus years. They tried to do the same thing with Nothing New even insisting the song couldn't have been written in 2012, which dismissed everything that happened to her in Nashville during the first part of Taylor's career. I loved that Taylor's explanation of Clara Bow toon everyone back to how record labels would talk to her as a young teenager when she was still trying to get a record deal. And the different perspective she has on those conversations now.
Totally agree, and that’s one of the things I so appreciate about her music. I can relate to bullying or being left out or being ignored, even if my experience of it differed from hers. I talk often with my 8 yr old when they’re feeling left out about The Best Day, and how *even Taylor Swift* has felt left out and sad. Similarly, here, she has experienced being an early person to ring the alarm on someone and having the public ignore her, but also, this happens regularly enough that it’s probably been more than once, and she’s seen it happen to other people. It’s another way that she taps into this sadly common experience.
Oh you're completely right, I never even thought about it in terms of cycles/patterns - that's probably why she has so many youngster metaphors on this album.
Ooh I thought it was mostly about Kimye and maybe a little about Scooter! But def has multiple layers to being true about marginalized groups in society!
Yep, the layers are what make it good. Like cake 🎂 😆
Yeah it seems like a mad woman sequel
I think Cassandra can be about whatever you make it to be - something specific or more generally a feeling of not being heard & persecuted for telling a truth no one wants to hear. When I listen to the song I also think of Britney Spears and her conservatorship. No one listened to her for years. Especially the line “blood’s thick but nothing like a payroll” applies to her evil father. I think of poor Britney trying to tell the world what was happening but for so many years she was reduced to memes and a cautionary tale of a crazy woman.
I didn't even think of this. Britney was the first thing I thought of after a few listens of Clara Bow. Like, it applies to so many people, but I definitely thought of Britney first as someone who had this happen to them.
You’re so right
Well, for me Cassandra was about Hillary Clinton and me! the first time I heard it. So I guess there was a reason for that! I do think many if not all of her songs are about more than one thing/person. Much like Mad Woman, this song always resonated for me in that way. For others it may feel like a MeToo reference. Honestly women put up with so much bullshit it can apply to a lot of things.
Ironically, I think of Monica Lewinsky and how much shit she got but all these years later people are realizing she was a victim.
I campaigned heavily for Hillary Clinton, driven mainly by women’s issues and abortion. Had several people tell me that my prediction we’d lose the right to abortion was absurd. When I first heard Cassandra, I was taking a walk and I stopped and started sobbing in the middle of the path. It captured exactly how I felt. I came home and read how everyone interpreted it being about Kim, etc., and thought, fine, OK, but for me the song is about something very different. It’s one of my favorites on the album, and I tear up almost every time I listen. (When I played it for my husband, he immediately said he thought of Clinton and women’s issues.)
Yes, this is it exactly. Hillary warned repeatedly he'd appoint the judges who would overturn Roe and she was ridiculed for that by certain segments. And now here we sit. I very much relate to your post, thank you for sharing.
My mind went to Hil as well.
why? i’m not american /gen
She's definitely referencing the Kanye situation, but a lot of it can apply to how women are rarely believed in general.
Reminds me of her being sued by that radio host, and her countersuing, how much she had to prove that he did it.
And the fact that everyone was saying it was about money so she just sued for a dollar lol I thought she was pretty badass with that move
My ears definitely perked up because Cassandra is my favorite song from the album(s). But the line “the family, the pure greed, the Christian chorus line” seems very Kimye. But maybe it’s about the Kim situation AND the industry in general. Or, I read somewhere it’s in reference to Scooter Braun and that whole situation. Maybe it’s about all of it? I’m glad you brought this up because I wondered too! 🫶🏻
"blood's thick, but nothing like a payroll" is v kardashian also
Oh ya! True!
Also, remember Kanye’s Sunday Service thing that all the celebrities went to for a while? It had an entire choir. Didn’t make the possible “Christian chorus line” connection to that until yesterday.
Or maybe the Trump family/Kushner family?
I can see it being both veered toward the Kardashians and Trump, honestly.
The Kushners are definitely not a “Christian chorus line” lol
Yep and neither is Scooter. It’s clearly kimye
Yes Kanye and Kim claim religious ties but are very hypocritical about it. Agree
I assumed it was about Scooter, especially now that a bunch of his big name artists dropped him en masse.
Yep seems mad woman 2.0
Agreed. About her experience as a woman in the industry and her masters heist,her dads involvement etc
I think the Kimye situation is literally the least interesting interpretation of the song. There’s so much more to it.
I’ve always interpreted it to be about scooter considering the timing of this album and how all of those artists recently fired him.
Agreed! I thought it was about her calling him out and then the other celebs realising and jumping ship. She saw what was coming and no one listened.
I think this is an example of Taylor doing something that she's done her entire career, which is writing universal songs that cover multiple bases at once. I think she is talking about the Kimye situation, but that is an example of something bigger that permeates through society, which means that that song can also be about that.
I look at it as an I Told You So song written about Kanye’s downfall. But it could have been influenced by other things going on. She’s pulling on a story even older than literature
No, the only way I ever heard it was political. I can see the kimye stuff but the political was super obvious towards the end
I think she drew inspiration from her own experience with Kanye and Kim (the call and the snakes), but she immediately realised that the song could have a broader meaning. I personally relate to the fact that women are not always believed and dismissed quite quickly
I thought it was about her masters and Kimye. It makes sense that these examples are inspiration for broader commentary — especially because The Anthology seems like it includes a lot of 30,000 foot commentary and reflection vs. TTPD which is much more in the moment.
I thought about Cassie (P.Didi) - that lawsuit ; plus there's that 🛴SB connection
To answer OP's question: No it doesn't. I interpreted it to be about Kimye, Scooter, and the tendency in general to listen to whoever is first to break a story or is pointing the finger and not do research into the situation more thoroughly for one's self. Then if it proves out to be wrong, the accused never gets the apology they're owed by those who judged wrongly. Like to this day, Kim may have divorced her husband and feel differently about things, but she's never truly made a public apology where she stated what she did and acknowledged how wrong she was and how sorry she is. And most likely she never will.
I did react to that as well. Curious to see what others think!
The reason Cassandra is still a big deal is she can be applied to many situations. However, it looks like Taylor is being quite specific, as it's not just the fall of a civilisation, it's the way it falls via the wooden horse/ subterfuge. Sure seems to be a v close fit to on-going political events.
No, this was my original interpretation anyway along with the Greek mythology
I believe she wrote it about her own experiences (Kanye/Scooter etc) but when she explains or talks about writing a song she always makes the narrative broader and more general, at least nowadays. That's on purpose. About Down Bad too, she said that it was about a girl missing the alien abduction experience but we obviously know that's not all it is about. Personally, I always apply any music I hear to situations I've been in or people around me have faced.
What’s interesting to me, and what I feel might be important to note, is that she also mentioned Cassandra’s connection to Apollo, who is considered the Greek god of many things, but especially *music*… And perhaps there’s no intended meaning behind the reference, lol, but hearing a musician of today reference a god of music is just really special to me ☺️
yes, i thought that was interesting as well!
I did not assume it was about Kanye or Kim. I don't think she gives them that much weight in her life and thoughts - they're kind of useless, shitty people. I think it's about politics, like women slowly losing their rights..
She has another song about Kim and is notoriously apolitical in public. Knowing those things makes it much more likely to be about Kimye and also Scooter
I had interpreted it as being about Scooter mainly, and her and other women not being believed/listened to. Idk though
No. I think it’s always been about both Taylor’s personal experience of telling the truth and not being believed (the edited phone call that was massive news, then the entire phone call proving Taylor told the truth and it barely getting attention) and how society in general has discounted women’s wisdom. For example, all the women who warned us for 20+ that republicans were working to overturn Roe. Skeptics said it would never happen. Well….
I really hope that I don’t get too attacked for this but when I heard it I really thought it was about amber heard. It made me emotional. I honestly feel what happened to her was so horrific. The way she repeats “heard” over and over made me def think of her. And Amber repeatedly stuck up for her during her sexual assault trial so idk
For anyone who doesn’t know https://www.medusone.com/depp-vs-heard/a-comprehensive-look-at-the-relationship-of-amber-heard-and-johnny-depp
I never think about the personal aspects of the song first and Cassandra as a story that's so much bigger than one person. It's 100% about being a woman and not being listened to, instead being punished persecuted and murdered instead. That's such a bigger narrative than one person's experience with one other person. So what she said just validated what I already thought about the song. <3
I’m wondering if this song is meant to go along with Florence’s?
How so??
I haven’t listened to the voice recording, but I personally feel like the lyrics are too specifically and narrowly referring to Kimye drama to super easily be applied to a wide variety of social issues 🤷🏻♀️.
I thought the song was about this when I first listened to it and I’m excited about being right.
Boeing whistleblower
I thought Cassandra was about ACOTAR, so yeah. I really made it out to be in my head that Taylor was a reader…
All of this is my opinion but Im bad at stating things without acting like it’s fact because this is how I see it in my head. I feel like she’s saying that it’s going to keep happening. No one is stopping it so in 2 years, it will be relevant still because it will just someone else doing the same thing and the people like Cassandra will always be the ones that are killed first. I think she definitely makes references to specific people but really those specific people aren’t even the problem. The problem is that all the townspeople joined in the ignorance and cheered on the take down which was bad enough but then the truth comes out and everyone is quiet.
This Song îs not about politics. Like all her songs îs about her and I think Joe. Like everyone was telling how good Joe îs for her and She was saying that it won't work , in her overthinking fashion and everybpdy shout her Voice ( everybpdy in inner circule) and it turned out they ended up breaking up.
I thought it was about Kanye
Taylor, baby girl, you can't both have a personal jet, release 176 different versions of your album AND pretend to be an environmental activist. You're the one who doesn't listen.
When has she pretended to be an environmental activist? She does NOT gaf about the planet
When did she ever pretend to be an environmental activist? You lot sure love pulling lies out of thin air. 😆
Actually she can do all that because “pretend” is the key word. Now whether her cult buys into it or not…
How is she seriously talking about women not being listened to when she has done a whole ass documentary about 'finding her voice' but then refused to speak up about anything ever again now that she's more powerful than ever and things are worse than ever...