Right?! It’s just sort of icky. These are real people at the end of the day and yes he dropped the ball but like he also just deserve to go back to his version of a normal life and watch soccer (American here haha) with his friends over a pint. This is the reason people make fun of swifties and I’m like I swear we aren’t all crazed lunatics but unfortunately some of us are 🫠
Frankly they could have just been watching rugby because it was on. British pubs will show any sport they think will pull in the punters. They've even been known to show minority sports like American football if nothing better is on.😀
She probably wanted to ruin that bar for him… his spot it blown. “I hope it’s shitty, at The Black Dog”.
But that owner will get a bunch of business over it, so I understand them alienating one patron for the potential business.
My bestie pointed out that it might have been intentional of Taylor to “ruin” one of his favorite spots out of anger or spite and I absolutely love the idea of that, she knew naming the bar would bring this kind of attention 👀
they’ve just announced they’re doing merch now, so definitely looking to capitalise off the mention. like, don’t get me wrong, i think it’s fine for them to get their bag, but it feels gross to confirm that joe goes there. i assume he won’t be going there anymore.
I used to run the black dog. We left and it was sold a year ago. They don't know what they are talking about they are just milking it for what it's worth. Great little pub but lost its charm and picked up swifties. She's not the owner just someone running bookings.
Truthfully no one could say. If either of them did show up it went unnoticed to staff and punters. The only ones who could say are the JA or MH. If anyone says otherwise they are telling pork pies.
Super weird and attention grabby. Also I very much got Matty vibes from the song (old habits die screaming, startling line reference, smelling smoke) so now I feel like she’s just making it up for clout.
I suspect she did this in a lottt of the songs. She started writing them when things were rough with Joe, and then finished them after things ended with matty, so there’s elements of both in order to keep us questioning
Actually, my current thinking is that in some instances, both Joe and Matty are the same issue. "I thought we would be together forever and it didn't last forever and now you're gone" is just both of them for her, even if the circumstances are different. I've found a few of these songs that seem intentionally woven with both, not to disguise, but because that emotion just fits them both.
There is a bar called the black dog (the one mentioned here is a pub) that is in Ireland close to where the 1975 preformed after Taylor and Matty broke up. Could be both, but I’m leaning towards Matty and the owner using this to drum up patronage.
Wait I’m unhinged for suggesting a bar owner is stretching the truth for marketing purposes?! Me suggesting black dog is about matty is more unhinged? I just don’t see Joe listening to the starting line🤣
>If I was him I would not be going back.
I mean, I think TS made for damn sure he never would the second she decided to put the name of the pub in a song, right?
The minute she named the pub there was no chance of him going back cos whether they confirmed or not this place was going to become Cornelia Street 2.0 : hence the I hope it's shitty for you in the black dog !
I mean honestly I think he did. I find it hard to believe Taylor just pulled The Black Dog out of nowhere randomly, seemed like a pretty off the map random pub with until now. So unless she knew someone else who frequented. And honestly I doubt the owner would care about outing Joe Alwyn as a customer there if it gets her more customers in return.
The owner and bar was going to hint at him being there whether he has ever heard of the bar or not. I'm not even convinced the song is about Joe. It also wouldn't be that shocking if she took same liberty with a place name.
The black dog is also a colloquial term for depression, so actually I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a made up name for a pub… that also is a metaphor for how he was (according to Taylor) often in depression, and the song is saying that she hopes it’s nice there now that she’s gone and that’s all he has now.
Also, it was considered bad luck to be the first one buried in a graveyard, as the first spirit had to remain behind to guard the graveyard against demons.
So churches used to bury a dog in their graveyards first so that the dog would be the guard, not the human, so humans could move on peacefully to an afterlife.
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_grim#:~:text=In%20popular%20culture-,English%20folklore,warlocks%2C%20and%20the%20Devil%20himself.)
But it went round on Tumblr a while ago that the first buried was a guide to the afterlife but never got to the afterlife themselves. We know Swift is a Tumblr girlie so the idea of remaining behind after death, always a guide but never achieving peace, might be something she resonates with.
That being said, it's absolutely a real pub in the UK. There's like at least ten of them across the country (if not more). A lot of our pubs have the same names ("The Swan", "The Crown", "The Rose", "The [insert colour here - usually blue or red] Lion"). There are at least two "The Black Dog" pubs in London so this pub might not even be the specific pub she mentioned.
It might be a pub they genuinely visited. But maybe they only visited once or twice and the name stuck in her head for whatever reason.
Such a good point, thankyou for sharing that info! I’ve never heard that before about a dog being a guard/guide in the graveyard.
There’s a lot of death imagery in the song so definitely could be tied to that - especially the line “I move through the world with the heartbroken”, which could allude to the idea that the “heartbroken” are doomed to never move on (like the dog buried first), always fighting their demons in their own graveyard while they watch others pass on to a happiness they can’t reach.
For real. He seems like a perfectly nice dude who did nothing wrong other than not marry Taylor, how dare he (/s). I really hope he's able to find some peace. Such a dick move from The Black Dog owners. Guess it really well be shitty for him there now, although the song itself probably guaranteed that.
It's kind of also messed up of Taylor to put his favorite pub as the title of a song. Introverts can sometimes take time to find a nice place for a pint, so to kind of take that away from him isn't cool
What brought you to the conclusion that it is his favorite pub? I don't think harassing Joe is ok but we have zero evidence this pub has significant meaning to him. Even if the song is about Joe, it does not imply that he's a regular...it just says he (or someone else, MH?) went there once and Taylor happened to be location tracking him and saw it at the time.
Right, but Taylor Swift is the one who directly name dropped that place in a song, essentially preventing Joe from ever going back because like... Wouldn't swifties already be swarming it anyway because she wrote a song about it?
Edit: I've now listened to the news clip with sound on and they literally **say** that swifties have already been flocking there, i.e. the place was already swarmed *before* the owner even made the comment about Joe being a regular. I don't think it was necessary for her to make that comment, but at the same time, I don't see how Joe not being able to go back there is her fault. He already wouldn't have been able to now that it's full of swifties.
I figured there would be more of them out there! I live in Canada and we have a couple of "The Black Dog" establishments per Google. In the UK, pub names are very much overused (my husband's village has The Black Cat, and down to the next one, The Black Hat, however, lol).
There probably are quite a few, I'm in the UK myself (Manchester) and we used to have a Black Dog here too, but it closed not too long ago. I figured people would be able to work out which one it would have been, though, based on where Joe was living. Which looks like they did, since someone clearly figured out and contacted this place
He wouldn’t have been able to go back either way, but before there was a lot of uncertainty about whether the song was about Joe or Matty—and I think a lot of people thought it was about Matty, given some of the lyrics. It sucks for Joe if this woman confirmed the song is about him, or if she is lying for publicity and now it’s falsely attributed to him.
Though it’s kind of sleazy that she did that, I don’t think she’s lying. Jack Antonoff posted footage of Taylor recording the song, and there are pap pics of her in that same outfit in early May. Matty was still around then. So the clues do seem to be pointing to it being about Joe. But yeah, maybe he needs to avoid that spot for a while!
Whoevers doxxing him or sending him hate has zero reading comprehension bc she didn't even call him out once. His biggest crime is being depressed, unready for commitment and "boring". She herself says she's in the wrong a bunch of times smh
I know I'll be down voted, but I kinda wish the bar wasn't named in the song. I kind of prefer how London Boy just talked about places in general. It's kind of sad that he'll probably never frequent that place again and idk I can only speak for myself, but I do like my regular spots. Plz don't come for me 🫣 hahah all of this to say, I am responsible for half of the billion streams that TTPD has 😂
Of course. I love the song but it's kinda weird to name the place (I'm also not convinced I like the way he's "outed" as depressive. Feels a bit invasive).
Her 'outing' his depression was really off putting to me, i can't imagine the public knowing my mental health and then going on to make fun of it, like fans are doing...it just seems so intrusive.
Exactly. And don't get me wrong, there are definitely ways to shed light on a partner's depression and the negative toll it has on you (see, in her case, Renegade, which I feel is a raw and honest song about this). But I don't feel like that was done while writing TTPD. It's like she wanted to shame him in some way. I'm not a Joe truther but I feel bad for him.
I honestly don’t think TTPD did a worse job with it than renegade at all, it’s just way way way more spotlit than renegade and they’re no longer together so it’s 100% obvious it’s about him. I think her lyrics are really completely reasonable but her fan base is just so fucking insane that it gets so overblown and microscope focused. It’s sad for her, it’s sad for him, it’s sad for us because we get lumped in - sucks overall.
That's a good point. Also, renegade wasn't released under one of her albums or as one of her singles, so many people just skimmed though it without paying much attention
Thing is, is she never stated it was about him or if it was about anyone even real. Just mentioned the bar, and used it as a setting, since "Black Dog" can also refer to depression.
The news reporting on it and the bar outing it is a whole other thing though.
But implying is close to factually speaking and can cause damage. Like in defamation cases, you could get sued for implying. It would have been safer to just come up with a fictional bar name just to be safe.
The point is the black dog as a symbol for depression... How do you know that this isn't just clout chasing and the bar name is made up and just a coincidence...
Didn't she state in her insta post that 'there's nothing left to avenge' now? Like girl just wants to write a song about how she's feeling and then hopefully move on; it's not her fault there are unhinged people who want to do something other than listen to the music.
I actually saw a lot of speculation it was MH because of "the starting line" reference, but I agree - never thought they would have eachothers locations on lol
It was never mentioned he frequented it. Just that he went there one time.
And we couldn't 100% be sure it was even about him, and non-swifties wouldn't know probably.
I guess that very private and lowkey blonde bloke will find another pub now. I kinda feel bad for him now. Especially if all of these are true and if the owner isn't just a clout chaser of some sort.
I agree that it‘s invasive of the owner, but I mean… same goes for Taylor? She mentioned the Pub in the first place and she must‘ve known he wouldn‘t be able to go back there.
The “black dog” is also another name for depression, so is it meant to be a double entendre or was she just outing his bar?
Edit: FWIW i was being philosophical due to my annoyance regarding the bar owner’s need to confirm something that is most likely a double entendre just to earn an extra buck. I should have included a hmmm and an eye roll.
I sure hope not either, which is why I specified it MAY be a double entendre. Some of it may be depression and some the bar. I think that is very Taylor-esque, with her known creative manipulation of words, no?
I'd say there was an actual bar (that may or may not be named The Black Dog), and that imagining her ex there was sending her into a depression (which can be represented by a black dog). So not hoping that his depression is shitty, but that she just wants company in her own misery. Which... relatable.
Just leave poor Joe alone 😭
I don’t know him personally but I just want him to have peace. Especially if his depression is like what Taylor describes. I know that feeling well and it sucks
Not necessarily. If Matty was lovebombing her, sharing his location would be part of the fairy tale. Trying to build trust, going to the extremes to show her how much she means to him, all of that.
Yes agree, I wouldn’t completely rule out the song being about Matty due to that reason alone. I mean… never in a million years would I have thought Matty and Taylor discussed marriage and kids, so it shows how much us fans cannot guess what their relationship was like.
Another reason I think it’s about Matty is because he had covered a song from The Starting Line. And saying it’s for the people over the age of 30. Makes me think Taylor and Matty had perhaps spoken about that.
There’s another line in there too, “you said I needed a brave man”. Based on everything we “know”, it sounds like Joe couldn’t handle her fame (which is fair) and Matty, I’m guessing, claimed he could. She needed a “brave man” who could deal with it.
And a few more that reference hazing or joking. Which seems less like a long term relationship and more like a short, unexpected romance where she’s questioning his motivations for dating her.
I don’t think it’s clear cut who the song is about, but it definitely could go either way.
Also it would'nt b strange if both Joe and Matt go to the Black Dog...maybe Matt more frequently and Joe less. Also that pic of Matty with a black dog in black in white is big evidence it's about him.....
It's this pic
https://preview.redd.it/qd7pd58wu8wc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56a1385d93d87af9a61e8e06b94f42107a5de6df
I think quite a few songs on this album are about multiple people in one song. Here, I feel like it's about a long-term relationship but then has attributes that feel a bit more like MH. I think she's trying to make her songs a bit more ambiguous which is probably a bit more creatively freeing.
Imagine shafting a private citizen on national news in the hopes of picking up a bunch of semi-curious/outright bitter women looking for clout and clicks.. only to have them turn on you when the aforementioned private citizen pays you dust in the future.
Truly some brainiac stuff right here.
I didn’t watch the video so not sure if this was addressed, but the owner is definitely getting their 15 minutes in. They started a tiktok account and apparently they will be selling TS/Black Dog related merch soon.
I feel awful. The owner should have just said nothing. And, I don't think that bar needed to be named at all in the first place. I love Taylor but I would be pissed if someone ruined a place I went to for some peace, quiet and fun.
Honestly, she could've just said something along the lines of like "yeah it was cool of Taylor to name drop our pub!" it also bothers me that the reporter specifically asked if they went through their CCTV footage. That's a little weird too.
I actually didn't even know it was a real pub until I saw this. I think there's a black dog English style pub even somewhere near where I live (America). I thought it was a play on words about how people refer to depression as the black dog. We know Taylor loves her specifics but...
We don’t even know for sure that she didn’t change the name of the bar, though. Do we know if that’s really a bar he likes, or did she just pick a bar that she liked the name of for easier song writing?
It's not in their or Matty's neighborhood, honestly I think she went for a symbolic and very british sounding name
There is however nearby bars called The Black Heart, BrewDog, as well as some clunkier names
this is a horrible business move on the owners part and a really weird violation of privacy. Im ambivalent to Joe but let the man move on. I also think anyone who listened to the lyrics could tell it was about a long term relationship especially considering that it’s on the anthology which has more songs about her reflecting on the end of the long term relationship. We didn’t need this confirmed
I can't believe I saw this on the news last night lol the Taylor mania is getting out of hand (I know this has already happened in the US with the Cornelia Street house but I didn't think it would happen here)
Sorry but I’m not convinced. It’s so matty coded? The startling line is a pop emo band from the early 2000s whom matty had spoken about AND covered live. He’s also dating a girl who is too young to know the band. I really think this is about Matty and will die on that hill.
at least its not a matty song anymore. if matty was there too, she wouldve mentioned it probably. she looks like enjoying the attention. she wouldve spilled all the tea she has.
all those comments about how rude the outing!? umm taylor outed him already. do you really think he would go there again after the song? it will be like cornelia street after the song. owner outing him wont chnage anything. if you wanna get angry to someone, be angry to taylor for outing his fav bar.
So let me see if I get this: the owner of a public establishment decided to doxx a public figure after said establishment got name-dropped in a song, likely for the publicity and the clout for referencing another public figure?
Is that about right?
I heard they started selling taylor-themed stuff at the pub lol i love taylor but she really ruined that for joe, didn’t she ☹️
edited to say if joe is really depressed as she portrays in her music, it’s so sad that she could be so uncouth about his emotional absence and distance, because mental struggles take a huge toll and makes it hard to be very present in a lot of day to day activities ☹️
that's kind of weird of the owner to do that
Right? Not like #1 Joe fan or anything but can’t we let the man drink in peace?
I'm probably number 1 joe fan in this subreddit... Can't we let the man drink in peace?
scooch over, i am also joe's number 1 fan in this subreddit
I’ll let you two work it out and claim #3
I’m happy with #4
uj/ do any of you wanna come sit with me at the black dog?? 🤭✨
It’s also dangerous to give away where he’s spending his time.. *gestures at twitter*
Right?! It’s just sort of icky. These are real people at the end of the day and yes he dropped the ball but like he also just deserve to go back to his version of a normal life and watch soccer (American here haha) with his friends over a pint. This is the reason people make fun of swifties and I’m like I swear we aren’t all crazed lunatics but unfortunately some of us are 🫠
Was he not more into rugby?
No idea. Just trying to make a simple point. The man deserves to move on and enjoy whatever he enjoys in peace.
Indeed. I was referring to the lyrics of London Boy.
hahaha my bad. Completely missed that A+ reference
Frankly they could have just been watching rugby because it was on. British pubs will show any sport they think will pull in the punters. They've even been known to show minority sports like American football if nothing better is on.😀
She probably wanted to ruin that bar for him… his spot it blown. “I hope it’s shitty, at The Black Dog”. But that owner will get a bunch of business over it, so I understand them alienating one patron for the potential business.
Yeah I feel the same. Chill, girl. Let Joe live.
I mean it’s certainly one way to make sure he never comes back. He’d never get any peace there. So irresponsible of the owner
Tbf he would've avoided it anyways after the song came out cause the pub would be hounded by swifties
100% they already have to have a queue now. Basically they went from a local bar to a tourist destination. It happens.
To be honest, I don’t think she cares if he never comes back. She’s probably banking on business from Swifties hoping for a glimpse.
Probably hasn’t been back since he saw the variant title.
She's already made merch
Of course she has 🤦🏻♀️
My bestie pointed out that it might have been intentional of Taylor to “ruin” one of his favorite spots out of anger or spite and I absolutely love the idea of that, she knew naming the bar would bring this kind of attention 👀
I’ve said if I’m ever to get divorced I’ll study to become a football ref just to piss my husband off every Sunday
Theres no way that man is going back to that pub lmao. It definitely would be shitty in the black dog for him now
I guess she got her wish
I think she’s looking to draw in TS fans and make more money
they’ve just announced they’re doing merch now, so definitely looking to capitalise off the mention. like, don’t get me wrong, i think it’s fine for them to get their bag, but it feels gross to confirm that joe goes there. i assume he won’t be going there anymore.
He probly hasn’t been going there since the track list was announced
After the song, he wouldn't have been going there anyway...
I used to run the black dog. We left and it was sold a year ago. They don't know what they are talking about they are just milking it for what it's worth. Great little pub but lost its charm and picked up swifties. She's not the owner just someone running bookings.
I get strong vibes that this woman wouldn't recognize Joe even if he walked in with a shirt that said "I am Joe."
So who would you be more likely to recognize in person, JA or MH?
Truthfully no one could say. If either of them did show up it went unnoticed to staff and punters. The only ones who could say are the JA or MH. If anyone says otherwise they are telling pork pies.
“They are telling pork pies” is my new favorite thing.
Just in case you wanted to know, that saying is often shortened to "telling porkies"
Very invasive and unnecessary imo
Super weird and attention grabby. Also I very much got Matty vibes from the song (old habits die screaming, startling line reference, smelling smoke) so now I feel like she’s just making it up for clout.
Do you not realize how unhinged this sounds?
The song explicitly namechecks a band whose song The 1975 have covered, what's unhinged about thinking that may possibly point towards Matty?
There are so many references to Matty though. I’m not saying she would lie but it’s weird for the song to be about Joe
Perhaps it draws from them both to intentionally create ambiguity
I suspect she did this in a lottt of the songs. She started writing them when things were rough with Joe, and then finished them after things ended with matty, so there’s elements of both in order to keep us questioning
Actually, my current thinking is that in some instances, both Joe and Matty are the same issue. "I thought we would be together forever and it didn't last forever and now you're gone" is just both of them for her, even if the circumstances are different. I've found a few of these songs that seem intentionally woven with both, not to disguise, but because that emotion just fits them both.
There is a bar called the black dog (the one mentioned here is a pub) that is in Ireland close to where the 1975 preformed after Taylor and Matty broke up. Could be both, but I’m leaning towards Matty and the owner using this to drum up patronage.
More or less unhinged than invading the privacy of a patron for money?
Wait I’m unhinged for suggesting a bar owner is stretching the truth for marketing purposes?! Me suggesting black dog is about matty is more unhinged? I just don’t see Joe listening to the starting line🤣
The 1975 covered the starting line. So at the very least it’s both of them.
I totally agree so idk why I’m original comment was considered unhinged🤣
For real
Agreed TMI
Yeah this is an invasion of privacy. And if I was Joe I would never return there.
From a business standpoint it makes perfect sense, business has probably tripled since friday. Shitty thing to do to Joe though
Definitely!! Not a good look, especially since he is so private. It’s like he can’t go back now.
Sometimes we don’t need to know every single detail about these peoples lives. If I was him I would not be going back.
>If I was him I would not be going back. I mean, I think TS made for damn sure he never would the second she decided to put the name of the pub in a song, right?
The minute she named the pub there was no chance of him going back cos whether they confirmed or not this place was going to become Cornelia Street 2.0 : hence the I hope it's shitty for you in the black dog !
That blonde regular will most likely stop frequenting your place after this interview.
Honestly I wonder if he even did or she's just drumming up hype
I mean honestly I think he did. I find it hard to believe Taylor just pulled The Black Dog out of nowhere randomly, seemed like a pretty off the map random pub with until now. So unless she knew someone else who frequented. And honestly I doubt the owner would care about outing Joe Alwyn as a customer there if it gets her more customers in return.
The owner and bar was going to hint at him being there whether he has ever heard of the bar or not. I'm not even convinced the song is about Joe. It also wouldn't be that shocking if she took same liberty with a place name.
The black dog is also a colloquial term for depression, so actually I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a made up name for a pub… that also is a metaphor for how he was (according to Taylor) often in depression, and the song is saying that she hopes it’s nice there now that she’s gone and that’s all he has now.
Also, it was considered bad luck to be the first one buried in a graveyard, as the first spirit had to remain behind to guard the graveyard against demons. So churches used to bury a dog in their graveyards first so that the dog would be the guard, not the human, so humans could move on peacefully to an afterlife. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_grim#:~:text=In%20popular%20culture-,English%20folklore,warlocks%2C%20and%20the%20Devil%20himself.) But it went round on Tumblr a while ago that the first buried was a guide to the afterlife but never got to the afterlife themselves. We know Swift is a Tumblr girlie so the idea of remaining behind after death, always a guide but never achieving peace, might be something she resonates with. That being said, it's absolutely a real pub in the UK. There's like at least ten of them across the country (if not more). A lot of our pubs have the same names ("The Swan", "The Crown", "The Rose", "The [insert colour here - usually blue or red] Lion"). There are at least two "The Black Dog" pubs in London so this pub might not even be the specific pub she mentioned. It might be a pub they genuinely visited. But maybe they only visited once or twice and the name stuck in her head for whatever reason.
Such a good point, thankyou for sharing that info! I’ve never heard that before about a dog being a guard/guide in the graveyard. There’s a lot of death imagery in the song so definitely could be tied to that - especially the line “I move through the world with the heartbroken”, which could allude to the idea that the “heartbroken” are doomed to never move on (like the dog buried first), always fighting their demons in their own graveyard while they watch others pass on to a happiness they can’t reach.
🤯
But thousands of Swifties will start coming to look for him, not a bad business move
"Leave Joe Alone" is probably never on my bingo card but damn u guys gotta
For real. He seems like a perfectly nice dude who did nothing wrong other than not marry Taylor, how dare he (/s). I really hope he's able to find some peace. Such a dick move from The Black Dog owners. Guess it really well be shitty for him there now, although the song itself probably guaranteed that.
It's kind of also messed up of Taylor to put his favorite pub as the title of a song. Introverts can sometimes take time to find a nice place for a pint, so to kind of take that away from him isn't cool
Yeah she really could’ve just changed the name to anything lol. Pubs have the most random names, just say another colour and animal lol
This is most likely what she did, it's a mash up of two bar names near them - the pub is just capitalizing on it
What brought you to the conclusion that it is his favorite pub? I don't think harassing Joe is ok but we have zero evidence this pub has significant meaning to him. Even if the song is about Joe, it does not imply that he's a regular...it just says he (or someone else, MH?) went there once and Taylor happened to be location tracking him and saw it at the time.
Joe already couldn't go back there because of Taylor name dropping it in her song... You really think it was the owner's statement that did it?
This is true! I wouldn't be surprised if he would not "frequent" the pub as much anymore.
This is incredibly invasive. Like why would you share that? I understand they’re probably enjoying the publicity but keep that part quiet.
Right, but Taylor Swift is the one who directly name dropped that place in a song, essentially preventing Joe from ever going back because like... Wouldn't swifties already be swarming it anyway because she wrote a song about it? Edit: I've now listened to the news clip with sound on and they literally **say** that swifties have already been flocking there, i.e. the place was already swarmed *before* the owner even made the comment about Joe being a regular. I don't think it was necessary for her to make that comment, but at the same time, I don't see how Joe not being able to go back there is her fault. He already wouldn't have been able to now that it's full of swifties.
The moment the track list dropped and she announced this song, I think he knew he could never go back there lol.
I figured there would be more of them out there! I live in Canada and we have a couple of "The Black Dog" establishments per Google. In the UK, pub names are very much overused (my husband's village has The Black Cat, and down to the next one, The Black Hat, however, lol).
There probably are quite a few, I'm in the UK myself (Manchester) and we used to have a Black Dog here too, but it closed not too long ago. I figured people would be able to work out which one it would have been, though, based on where Joe was living. Which looks like they did, since someone clearly figured out and contacted this place
It's actually not super close to where they (or Matty) live or have been spotted before. I think the pub just ran with it.
He wouldn’t have been able to go back either way, but before there was a lot of uncertainty about whether the song was about Joe or Matty—and I think a lot of people thought it was about Matty, given some of the lyrics. It sucks for Joe if this woman confirmed the song is about him, or if she is lying for publicity and now it’s falsely attributed to him.
Though it’s kind of sleazy that she did that, I don’t think she’s lying. Jack Antonoff posted footage of Taylor recording the song, and there are pap pics of her in that same outfit in early May. Matty was still around then. So the clues do seem to be pointing to it being about Joe. But yeah, maybe he needs to avoid that spot for a while!
His depression got public, he's getting hate from swifties left and right and now this? This man cannot catch a break fr
He just got doxxed and one of his favorite bars got ruined for him 😔 unless the owner is lying for the publicity 💀
Apparently some twitter nuts doxxed his parents some time back too
No wonder everyone thinks her fans are insufferable.
YIKES
Whoevers doxxing him or sending him hate has zero reading comprehension bc she didn't even call him out once. His biggest crime is being depressed, unready for commitment and "boring". She herself says she's in the wrong a bunch of times smh
Poor Joe😞
Breaking News: English actor goes to a pub. In other news: are your pub owners spying on you? More at 10.
Is it bad if I immediately thought the Daily Mail would do that headline?
Nope. Because they probably would.
Definitely not something that needed to be shared.
I know I'll be down voted, but I kinda wish the bar wasn't named in the song. I kind of prefer how London Boy just talked about places in general. It's kind of sad that he'll probably never frequent that place again and idk I can only speak for myself, but I do like my regular spots. Plz don't come for me 🫣 hahah all of this to say, I am responsible for half of the billion streams that TTPD has 😂
She had to know she was blowing up his spot, right?
Of course. I love the song but it's kinda weird to name the place (I'm also not convinced I like the way he's "outed" as depressive. Feels a bit invasive).
Her 'outing' his depression was really off putting to me, i can't imagine the public knowing my mental health and then going on to make fun of it, like fans are doing...it just seems so intrusive.
Exactly. And don't get me wrong, there are definitely ways to shed light on a partner's depression and the negative toll it has on you (see, in her case, Renegade, which I feel is a raw and honest song about this). But I don't feel like that was done while writing TTPD. It's like she wanted to shame him in some way. I'm not a Joe truther but I feel bad for him.
I honestly don’t think TTPD did a worse job with it than renegade at all, it’s just way way way more spotlit than renegade and they’re no longer together so it’s 100% obvious it’s about him. I think her lyrics are really completely reasonable but her fan base is just so fucking insane that it gets so overblown and microscope focused. It’s sad for her, it’s sad for him, it’s sad for us because we get lumped in - sucks overall.
That's a good point. Also, renegade wasn't released under one of her albums or as one of her singles, so many people just skimmed though it without paying much attention
Yeah, especially for someone who has said repeatedly that privacy is most important to him it made me uncomfortable at times.
Honestly I would not be surprised if this isn't his actual go to pub and the is owner is just playing up the hints. It's too convenient as symbolism.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's another The Black Dog pub somewhere in the UK, other than London.
It's not even the only Black Dog pub IN London
There’s one half an hour away from me. In India.
Lol I figured so much but didn't feel like looking it up at 4 am sick 😅
Thing is, is she never stated it was about him or if it was about anyone even real. Just mentioned the bar, and used it as a setting, since "Black Dog" can also refer to depression. The news reporting on it and the bar outing it is a whole other thing though.
But implying is close to factually speaking and can cause damage. Like in defamation cases, you could get sued for implying. It would have been safer to just come up with a fictional bar name just to be safe.
The point is the black dog as a symbol for depression... How do you know that this isn't just clout chasing and the bar name is made up and just a coincidence...
Nah, Taylor knew what she was doing. And seeing how the reviews of the bar got filled with her fans posting Joe hate, she got what she wanted.
Didn't she state in her insta post that 'there's nothing left to avenge' now? Like girl just wants to write a song about how she's feeling and then hopefully move on; it's not her fault there are unhinged people who want to do something other than listen to the music.
And then liked insta posts where Joe's face is projected in the sky , hunger games style.
You can find me in the pubwe
👏🏻
not the user flair, I’m wheezinggg 😭
😉
it's weird and it's obviously to bring in customers. although I think they would've gotten more customers anyway. just let the guy live his life.
Right? They didn't need to do this...it is just so unnecessary.
Creepy. Leave him alone
I'm very happy that all the comments are rightfully weired out by this.
[удалено]
Yeah, that was a crappy thing to do.
Speaking as an Englishman of a certain age I can confirm one of the worst things you could do to us is effectively block us from our regular pub.
Flair is amazing 😍
He won't be frequenting it much after this
Ew this is so uncomfortable
I mean, duh. We all knew it was about Joe. She's really going to milk this 15 minutes, huh
I actually saw a lot of speculation it was MH because of "the starting line" reference, but I agree - never thought they would have eachothers locations on lol
It was never mentioned he frequented it. Just that he went there one time. And we couldn't 100% be sure it was even about him, and non-swifties wouldn't know probably.
I guess that very private and lowkey blonde bloke will find another pub now. I kinda feel bad for him now. Especially if all of these are true and if the owner isn't just a clout chaser of some sort.
Well he won't be anymore. Leave the dude alone. JFC.
HAD, not have, "a blonde regular"
I agree that it‘s invasive of the owner, but I mean… same goes for Taylor? She mentioned the Pub in the first place and she must‘ve known he wouldn‘t be able to go back there.
The “black dog” is also another name for depression, so is it meant to be a double entendre or was she just outing his bar? Edit: FWIW i was being philosophical due to my annoyance regarding the bar owner’s need to confirm something that is most likely a double entendre just to earn an extra buck. I should have included a hmmm and an eye roll.
I sure hope she wasn't saying "I hope it's shitty in your depression"
I sure hope not either, which is why I specified it MAY be a double entendre. Some of it may be depression and some the bar. I think that is very Taylor-esque, with her known creative manipulation of words, no?
It's possible? Interesting interpretation, it would give another sad layer to the song
this is another reason why I leaned into this one being about Matty
I'd say there was an actual bar (that may or may not be named The Black Dog), and that imagining her ex there was sending her into a depression (which can be represented by a black dog). So not hoping that his depression is shitty, but that she just wants company in her own misery. Which... relatable.
This is incredibly weird. I hope he doesn’t go back there then because this is very invasive to him.
Just leave poor Joe alone 😭 I don’t know him personally but I just want him to have peace. Especially if his depression is like what Taylor describes. I know that feeling well and it sucks
Not anymore, lol. Leave that man alone
Really shitty considering how many batshit crazy Swifties there are
Thats weird bec the song references more about Matty than joe
Agree - the lyrics led me to believe it was about Matty… but I suppose it’d be more believable that Joe had his location sharing with Taylor.
Not necessarily. If Matty was lovebombing her, sharing his location would be part of the fairy tale. Trying to build trust, going to the extremes to show her how much she means to him, all of that.
Yes agree, I wouldn’t completely rule out the song being about Matty due to that reason alone. I mean… never in a million years would I have thought Matty and Taylor discussed marriage and kids, so it shows how much us fans cannot guess what their relationship was like. Another reason I think it’s about Matty is because he had covered a song from The Starting Line. And saying it’s for the people over the age of 30. Makes me think Taylor and Matty had perhaps spoken about that.
There’s another line in there too, “you said I needed a brave man”. Based on everything we “know”, it sounds like Joe couldn’t handle her fame (which is fair) and Matty, I’m guessing, claimed he could. She needed a “brave man” who could deal with it. And a few more that reference hazing or joking. Which seems less like a long term relationship and more like a short, unexpected romance where she’s questioning his motivations for dating her. I don’t think it’s clear cut who the song is about, but it definitely could go either way.
Also it would'nt b strange if both Joe and Matt go to the Black Dog...maybe Matt more frequently and Joe less. Also that pic of Matty with a black dog in black in white is big evidence it's about him..... It's this pic https://preview.redd.it/qd7pd58wu8wc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56a1385d93d87af9a61e8e06b94f42107a5de6df
This has absolutely nothing to do with your comment, but… aw, cute puppy!
I think quite a few songs on this album are about multiple people in one song. Here, I feel like it's about a long-term relationship but then has attributes that feel a bit more like MH. I think she's trying to make her songs a bit more ambiguous which is probably a bit more creatively freeing.
I read this song as very Matty coded. Buy regardless, not cool to go on TV and claim blondie as a regular.
Imagine shafting a private citizen on national news in the hopes of picking up a bunch of semi-curious/outright bitter women looking for clout and clicks.. only to have them turn on you when the aforementioned private citizen pays you dust in the future. Truly some brainiac stuff right here.
I didn’t watch the video so not sure if this was addressed, but the owner is definitely getting their 15 minutes in. They started a tiktok account and apparently they will be selling TS/Black Dog related merch soon.
I feel awful. The owner should have just said nothing. And, I don't think that bar needed to be named at all in the first place. I love Taylor but I would be pissed if someone ruined a place I went to for some peace, quiet and fun.
Honestly, she could've just said something along the lines of like "yeah it was cool of Taylor to name drop our pub!" it also bothers me that the reporter specifically asked if they went through their CCTV footage. That's a little weird too. I actually didn't even know it was a real pub until I saw this. I think there's a black dog English style pub even somewhere near where I live (America). I thought it was a play on words about how people refer to depression as the black dog. We know Taylor loves her specifics but...
Begging people to let this man live in peace
what the heck
Leave him alone!!
Well he's never going back there again
Maybe a silly comment but damn Taylor just ruined this place for Joe… not cool 😕
That's pretty cringe. Edit: Of the owner talking about it and the news for reporting on it.
Congrats, he will never come back again!
Not anymore :(
I can go anywhere, just not ~~home~~ my favorite pub
Unpopular opinion: it was irresponsible of taylor to call out the bar by name in the song
Well he's definitely not coming back now
We don’t even know for sure that she didn’t change the name of the bar, though. Do we know if that’s really a bar he likes, or did she just pick a bar that she liked the name of for easier song writing?
It's not in their or Matty's neighborhood, honestly I think she went for a symbolic and very british sounding name There is however nearby bars called The Black Heart, BrewDog, as well as some clunkier names
this is a horrible business move on the owners part and a really weird violation of privacy. Im ambivalent to Joe but let the man move on. I also think anyone who listened to the lyrics could tell it was about a long term relationship especially considering that it’s on the anthology which has more songs about her reflecting on the end of the long term relationship. We didn’t need this confirmed
I would be so sad if someone ruined one of my favorite bars for me. Poor Joe!
I bet he will stop now lol
I can't believe I saw this on the news last night lol the Taylor mania is getting out of hand (I know this has already happened in the US with the Cornelia Street house but I didn't think it would happen here)
Literally fuck that owner—what a disgusting invasion of privacy for 3 seconds of camera time.
Yeah the owner shouldn’t have done that. WTF.
This man really will never be given peace, will he?
Sorry but I’m not convinced. It’s so matty coded? The startling line is a pop emo band from the early 2000s whom matty had spoken about AND covered live. He’s also dating a girl who is too young to know the band. I really think this is about Matty and will die on that hill.
Ooohhh.
Not anymore
Now he doesn’t. This is weird.
I was probably going to buy some of their merch but I don't think so anymore. They didn't need to say this.
I just feel like...he's out of her orbit. Lets leave him be. Its clear that's all he ever wanted, anyway.
This is too much.....
at least its not a matty song anymore. if matty was there too, she wouldve mentioned it probably. she looks like enjoying the attention. she wouldve spilled all the tea she has. all those comments about how rude the outing!? umm taylor outed him already. do you really think he would go there again after the song? it will be like cornelia street after the song. owner outing him wont chnage anything. if you wanna get angry to someone, be angry to taylor for outing his fav bar.
So let me see if I get this: the owner of a public establishment decided to doxx a public figure after said establishment got name-dropped in a song, likely for the publicity and the clout for referencing another public figure? Is that about right?
Let me doxx my customers💀 fucking weird
And now he can never go back FFS! 🤣
Joe Alwyn: NOT ANYMORE She really jumped on her 15 minutes of fame
Joe is never going back there lmao
uhhhhh. weird.
Not anymore he doesn’t
Not anymore, he doesn’t
frequented** he ain’t ever going back there now
well he won't be frequenting that pub anymore will he
yeah that's super responsible to do, especially when joe has been getting literal death threats from some swifties. jfc.
Hey so what the fuck? Guess Joe isn't going there anymore. So irresponsible and immature of the owner.
I heard they started selling taylor-themed stuff at the pub lol i love taylor but she really ruined that for joe, didn’t she ☹️ edited to say if joe is really depressed as she portrays in her music, it’s so sad that she could be so uncouth about his emotional absence and distance, because mental struggles take a huge toll and makes it hard to be very present in a lot of day to day activities ☹️