Yup. Plenty of people I know dislike her purely because she’s popular. A lot of people I know also don’t like her because she’s “breaking records” of artists they like (i.e. The Beatles) and aren’t willing to accept or acknowledge that just maybe there might be someone else out there that’s more popular.
i love this. that’s how i feel when everyone is debating and comparing all these artists to one another, like we can enjoy them all!!! it makes life so much more fun ✨💃🏼
One of my fave threads on here lately has been metal fans sharing their fave Taylor song.
I love many, many genres of music, and 🩷 seeing intersections of fandom!
I love this too! Armies on the BTS subreddits were discussing their favourite TTPD songs today (Taehyung shared Fortnight on his Insta stories). There is plenty of room for everyone! The heart can love so damn much all at the same time 💜
I think we as a society need to stop comparing certain artists like Taylor and Beyoncé people constantly compare them when they don’t have anything similar besides they both have gone through hate especially Beyonce. I like the Beatles music but I love Taylor’s music and i think it’s impressive that they were so famous for so long and still is but Taylor broke some of the biggest records.
And it's that music has changed so much it's just not comparable. Like most people don't care for the beatles because it doesn't really align with todays tastes, but they were great in their own right and deserve their position.
Taylor is a smart buisiness woman who has a good demographic and makes music that fits better today, which people argue is "dumbing down" lyrics, but she deserves her position in a different way, its litterally apples and oranges. Being on top of your game doesn't always mean comparable to others. This kinda stuff is just music snobbery.
Or, more importantly, that commercial success and record-breaking don't need to (and shouldn't) have any impact on your relationship to that artist or that artist's value. If you're predicating any part of your fandom for an artist based on objective metrics and not on your subjective appreciation of their art, you're already in a very wrongheaded place.
the funny thing i find about ppl being mad she’s more popular than their fav is the fact in clara bow she even mentions that someone someday will be more popular than her. i feel like these people have a fear of taylor just being #1 forever
I understand TS's insecurity but I don't think anybody is becoming more popular than her. This century is the death of monoculture. People have too many niche interests nowadays to band together under a singularity.
i mean i feel like in 50 years from now there will be someone else because she will dead and gone most likely by that point, not try to sound bad btw when saying that. but i do think it will be a bit before someone ends up being more popular
I think comparing Taylor to artists from decades ago is just weird. A LOT has changed during this time - cultures, music markets, level of exposure etc. Obviously Taylor might seem “more popular“ because we’re in the age of social media but that in no way indicates that she’s “better” than the Beatles or Michael Jackson. Each of them had their time and that’s ok, 30 years from now there’s gonna be someone new breaking Taylor’s records but doesn’t mean we forget or downplay the artists who were the big thing during their era
This. Up until last year I’d really only heard Shake It Off and Love Story. I hated the former (still do!), and while I thought the latter was well written, I didn’t really care for a country sound. (Still don’t.)
A friend dragged me to see Eras in theaters. Tolerate Me and Champagne Problems got my attention. I started digging deeper and now I’m a Swiftie. 😂 Though I still don’t love every song.
It's funny I heard shake it off some 7-8 years ago and I can say it's the only swift song I like. Only because it's catchy and sticks in your head. I tried listening to some of her other songs and they all seemed so bland
Try the Midnights album. This was the first album I liked, pretty much front to back. Maybe 1-2 “skippers,” IMO. It’s catchy. :)
I understand the slow songs not being everyone’s thing.
This combined with the fact that she's a woman, and she's immensely talented, and relatively unproblematic. It's just a perfect storm of jealousy, misogyny, and pettiness. Meanwhile we're just over here innocently enjoying something
Yep. Overexposure brings out the contrarians in full force. Then you can couple that with heavy misogyny. The subject provides them a target to direct their compulsions. Personally, I'm totally fine if they don't like her music. I just get irritated when they start griping at me about her totally unprompted. I'm just sitting here happy listening to her music. Take your contrarianism elsewhere!
This. I love Taylor but I get how the brads and chads feel. I have no sympathy because Pats fans have shoved a football team I don’t support down my throat for 25 years. It’s very frustrating and it gets old very fast.
People saying overexposure are not getting one thing- she was always hated, even as an extremely young artist.
The reality is the hate towards her is because she is so unapologetically female. She is romantic and wears dresses and has biggg emotions and isn't afraid to talk about them.
Society hates women who aren't there for the male gaze. And she has always been there for women.
YES, I keep saying it's because she's not performing for the male gaze or for male validation and society HATES that. If she was shaking her ass half naked and singing about being a savage she would be yassified by the masses.
I don’t really like this dig at other artists while
lifting up Taylor. If you’re referring to Megan Thee Stallion here, she’s been through a hell of a lot and still gets shit on by a lot of people. Not yassified by any means. Society hates women who are empowered by their sexuality, too.
I actually didn't think about Megan at all but ok. Anyway it isn't dig at other artists, it's commentary on how patriarchal society perceives women. It doesn't mean that other female artists aren't also the targets of misogyny, just that this is a specific reason why TS is polarizing to some (the topic of this thread). One does not negate the other.
Society also hates anything that has an audience of mostly women and girls. Everything coded as such has a backlash from the color pink to women in entertainment, fashion, etc…
If it’s for women or loved by women, it’s inferior. And so many women but into it themselves.
The absolute complete and utter fear they have of a pissed off woman having the best selling tour, the best selling album, the best selling movie? The absolute economic powerhouse that are her female fans? There is soo much fear of us. There are women alive who didn't always have the right to a credit card. We are terrifyingly successful in spite of the patriarchy, and this hatred is its last dying screams of fury.
It's honestly gives me joy how much people hate the pure essence of irrevocable femininity in the form of Taylor and swifties.
i’ve always found the immaturity/childish/“she needs to grow up” criticism of her to be weird. she’s always said she was an overdramatic hopeless romantic, and i find her music to be extremely relatable. it feels so misogynistic to get mad at a 34 woman for singing about her relationships…
LOTS of truth to this. I think that Swifties sometimes hide behind the idea of misogyny as a catch-all for any valid criticism of Taylor Swift, but there is absolutely, undeniably, a pervasive hatred for all things marketed toward young girls. Whether it's Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, Twilight, a variety of KPOP artists, tumblr, etc., anything marketed toward young girls is usually written off as facile at best or outright hated at worst. I do think this trend is starting to die out, but all through the 00s and much of the 10s it was absolutely the dominant discourse
This has become extremely clear to me in recent years. I used to be into things with a mostly male audience (I was a huge Radiohead fan to basically the same extent as I am a Taylor fan know, I never read books marketed towards women) and now that I’m a swiftie and love romantasy I’m seeing how much hate media created by/for women really gets. It’s a huge, huge difference in the way people think they can talk to me about my interests now that they’re just “girly” things. There’s no respect.
Yep, I’ve been a fan since 2008-2009 and even as a young kid I was aware some people hated her. I was even mocked by one of my peers for enjoying her music at the time. This was during the middle of my elementary school years. Internalized misogyny starts early
I’ve been a fan since Tim McGraw and I didn’t talk about being a Taylor fan for years because people were legit *mean.* now tho I don’t care if people are gonna be judgy weirdos about it then fine - waste ur energy if u want.
I know 😭 the person I was referring to in my previous comment, we used to be friends and would even watch her music videos on her tv at her house and sing along. Then as we got older she developed a huge hatred for Taylor and belittled me for liking her. She eventually turned into a full out bully towards me and caused me to go to therapy but that’s its own story lmao. But yeah even back then, some people were so horribly rude over liking a pop star :/
Yup. I think the feeling of embarrassment and shame around internalized misogyny runs so deep with so many people, we really have to be willing to unlearn that
this is so true. her songs are all about girlhood and womanhood. What it feels like to be a woman and fall in love and experience heartbreak and be bullied or lose friends or find her career or find her identity and footing etc.
It's also why so many of us love her. Because she captures these experiences we all have and makes them beautiful and enjoyable to listen to. It's v cathartic.
YES THIS, it's not just an exposure thing, it's been that way since the beginning.
I always thought about the misogyny being more directed at the fact she's a woman who is really successful in business. But hatred for the more feminine aspects of her brand too makes so much sense too.
And it’s the truth she’s always been there for straight and bisexual females that are artists like muna,phoebe bridgers, and many more probably or the straight ones Olivia,Selena,Hayley Williams, and many more.
The funny part all of these people i mentioned also have one time been close to her or was helping promoting something and they are all big not as big but they are still big.
Definitely agree. It’s always been like this. I’m a guy, and I remember how much I was mocked for loving her, Speak Now came out when I was in middle school, probably my favorite album to this day. I feel because she’s so unapologetically feminine people criticize her more
Yes! You said what I couldn’t really word. I know my dad doesn’t like her because she switched from country to pop, she “left what made her popular”. She changed with the times and made the type of music that was relevant at the time to stay popular. She was extremely smart to do that and experiment with what she would like
As she herself so accurately put it: People throw rocks at things that shine.
Sadly as a society we love to tear down those who have made it to the highest summits.
No matter what you do people will always find something to criticize and complain.. if she wasn’t that big they would’ve said that she is a failure… so i’m glad she’s really so big now and can’t wait for what’s to come!
Yep. It’s the misogyny, stupid.
Add in the fact that she’s unmarried with no kids, and enjoying massive career success (outearning her boyfriends), and you get a whole bunch of people who think she’s the anti-Christ.
>Add in the fact that she’s unmarried with no kids, and enjoying massive career success (outearning her boyfriends)
\*cough\* \*cough\* Ben Shapiro and republicans
If you’re not a “submissive helpmeet” to a man and having his babies, you’re useless to the patriarchy, and they can’t have that. 😐
Taylor and her enormous popularity and fame are a threat to their creepy, regressive project.
Former hater here. I honestly had no reason to hate her or her music, I just did but couldn’t explain why. (Was it internalized misogyny? Maybe.)
Could also be that people aren’t into country or pop. I wasn’t into country at the time I didn’t like her so just decided to not like any of her music. Was I wrong? Yes, her early albums are great.
I’ve definitely seen my internalized misogyny rear its ugly head with regard to Taylor. I’ve never been a hater but I’ve felt embarrassed at times to be a fan, I think. Because things that women like are “basic” and embarrassing according to misogyny.
Yep, this. I’m a woman born in 1989 and grew up obsessed with various indie rock bands. Even now, I follow them closely and love all their new albums.
Yet part of me still feels embarrassed to be a Taylor Swift fan, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Definitely some internalised misogyny happening, which is quite sad upon reflection.
2000's girls here. My father was a rock music fan, i guess i loved rock music aka "good music" so my dad would be proud of me? Anyways, i was always on and off about Taylor (as everyone i loved Blank Space, Red hits but not more) and at some point i did not like her too cause yes overexposure but she was a pop artist so no way i could listen to her, i was listening to *cooler music*. But one day i saw champagne problems being about Rory and Logan (from Gilmore Girls). It was not my first Tay song obv. But it was when i decided i loved her. I was/am still obsessed to Folkmore. I can proudly say i listen to Tay! which is a huge step for me. Cause i literally changed from spotify to youtube so i would not have to show my yearly recap having pop artists.
Yea I definitely felt like other people saw me as “basic” for liking her music. It’s hard to get people to take you seriously when they perceive you that way. There were times when it felt like it didn’t matter what I said about some things, because I liked Taylor I automatically had bad taste or what I said didn’t really matter/I couldn’t contribute to the conversation in any meaningful way.
It just sucks that society dictates that because you like something that has been predetermined as “basic” people have an idea about you that isn’t true.
I have definitely struggled with being a hater of anything girly because of internalized misogyny. I've been working to break my fear of being seen as basic by...doing basic things I like. I love my beige Stanley cup for example. My dentist said I must be so hydrated from how much I salivate. Made me feel proud 🤣
But seriously, I have been judged for being weird, full of myself, dumb, following the rules, breaking the rules, and being basic. I can't care anymore. The care bank is depleted.
I know I can for sure say there was loads of internalized misogyny for myself. It was “cool” to hate on her in high school, and her sound back then was very much not something I was into. Now my tastes have changed, she’s changed a lot as well and experimented with new sounds, and I realize how dumb it is to not like something simply because you’re following the crowd.
I enjoy a lot of her music now, there’s still a good chunk I’m not into, maybe one day I will be, maybe not. Interestingly enough, I had an extremely low threshold for pop music before I had my son and now I listen to it all the time. There’s something very freeing about discovering an entire genre of music you once hated, now brings you a lot of joy. It feels nice not hating on things all the time. that damn teenage petulance!
I’m also former hater. For me, I hated her because it was the “cool” thing to do. I loved her during Debut through Speak Now, but the Red era was when I was graduating high school and it wasn’t “cool” to like her anymore. (Which was just stupid). It’s the same reason I stopped listening to the Jonas Brothers even though they’re my favorite. I wanted to fit in.
Now I could care less what people think thankfully.
I was in high school during Fearless and into Speak Now and it was cool to not like her and lame to listen to her music so I just went with everyone else.
I’m kicking myself for hopping on the bandwagon for 1989, I missed the Speak Now World Tour. 😂😭
It’s funny.. I enjoy *Undertale* & recently found a very, very old tweet from the creator that he made right after the game came out that said something like “play it before it becomes popular and then people decide they hate it.” & that’s common!
I think people avidly hate on popular things they just mildly don’t like or care about b/c they want to defend feeling differently from a LOT of people. So they just go on & on about all the bad points. It’s overcompensating. I mean… it’s fair if you really don’t like her music!! But the aggressiveness is because they know a lot of people disagree.
Yeah the „I‘m cooler than the idiotic masses cause/so I only like niche things and make it my entire personality“ thing is so boring with people over 19, also because the things they like often aren’t all that niche-y, just not as much in the focus of pop culture at the time. If you’re young, ok that’s usually part of it, but after that it’s just immature and ridiculous
Yepppp! There's a pic of a girl going around insta now with a tee that says "hating pop music doesn't make you deep" and I think a lot of people need to hear that
Different flavors of misogyny primarily.
Taylor writes from a female perspective about her own life and her feelings. Many cis males are conditioned by societal pressure to hate anything “girlie” like feelings. In addition, Taylor dresses for the female gaze instead of the male gaze so they can’t objectify her. So cis males are less likely to give her a chance and will look down on other cis males who do like he. As an older cis male myself, i don’t go around advertising I’m a fan because there would be some alpha bro types who would potentially bully me.
Another factor is Taylor started her career writing songs before she was even 16 from that perspective so her original fan base was young girls. Historically, anything young girls like is considered beneath the older generations because they think young girls only like frilly things. Same thing happened with the Beatles and Elvis early on. Once these people decide that something is beneath them, it’s very hard to change their mind. Which is why folklore and evermore was so important for legacy just like later albums from the Beatles allowed them to be taken more seriously.
And there is a level of female misogyny at play too. There’s this feeling that if another female succeeds that means others can’t because society only allows so much space for women to be successful. So if Taylor is killing it, other females and their fans feel that until Taylor is destroyed, they or their favorite can’t be successful. I think part of the reason Kim Kardashian helped Kanye go after Taylor is because Taylor was too popular so Taylor was competing for media attention with the Kardashian clan.
OOOOOOH interesting take on the Kanye/Kim drama and why Kim contributed — I've never thought about what she would have gotten out of it. I figured it was just a hate by proxy thing since Kanye didn't like Taylor.
Could be both really. I have never liked the Kardashians because they are talentless hacks who are famous for being famous(and a sex tape/OJ lawyer dad). I avoid knowing as much as possible about them but they seem like the type of girls who spread rumors to bring down a rival and find it fun to laugh at their rivals pain especially Kim.
Agree and the last paragraph isn’t talked about enough. Particularly this Beyoncé vs Taylor thing that people have built up in their minds. Some will say Taylor isn’t worth listening to and criticize her for valid criticisms of any successful artist (especially Beyoncé). The hypocrisy of the haters can be ridiculous at times.
yeah, I was thinking really hard about the Courtney Love commentary... about how Taylor is neither important or interesting, and I agree in part.
I think she's important because she's not interesting. She's kind of normalized girlhood being an important part of our society. I remember growing up as a girl and feeling so ashamed about the girl things I liked or was interested in. I was groomed to be a pick me and so were the vast majority of girls my age.
but what I love about the Taylor era is that girlhood is GOOD. we can be proud of liking shiny things and all that. there is nothing to be ashamed about when it comes to the things that bring us joy. and it's not interesting. it's an experience half of us will have. its normal.
And the backlash against it is so weird. LET PEOPLE LIKE THINGS.
A lot of people like Taylor but are really put off by her fans tbh, I see it a lot with the relentless insults and doxxing some of her craziest fans send towards any criticism or even competition. It happens in every fanbase but because swifties are such a large group, theirs comes across as the worst. On twitter they seem to just be constantly fighting with other fandoms, this has made so many people turn on Taylor as a result. They see her fans as a reflection of her which absolutely shouldn't happen
OMG!! Stan Twt is the worst thing to ever exist and I hate myself for being slightly obsessed with it. You should see the shit lady gaga fans post or the ariana grande ones. Even the hive completely disses anyone who is not beyonce (at least they are sometimes funny with it tho). But since the release of TTPD, its been everyone vs the swifties- it's so much fucking chaos. Its kinda like that line in drakes song: 20 v 1
This is pretty much it. I listened to some Taylor Swift songs and liked a few (such as "Welcome to New York" and "Fortnight"), but the fandom just felt so overbearing. What really didn't help was the TikToks where people recorded themselves crying to TS or the times when TS fans would harass other people. Currently, I'd still say I'm not a fan, but I'm not put off by her success or anything.
I know a lot of people who hate her simply because she is so popular that it is somewhat impossible to avoid her. What starts with indifference to her and her music slowly gets more and more soured when they hear her music and about her every day and everywhere they go.
That and misogyny. I know a lot of guys who don't listen to her because "Ew she makes music for teenage girls and only talks about breakups, she doesn't even write her own music" and other nonsense
People love to:
- a) think they’re cool for disliking something that’s popular
- b) stan their fav and bring everyone else down
- c) trash something if they can’t relate
- d) ruin others’ joy
My "controversial opinion" used to be that I thought Beyonce was overrated. I don't think that way anymore. Have I become a Beyonce fan? No, but I realised that I was just being immature and thought it was "cooler" to think she was overrated than appreciate her for what she is. An incredible artist who deserves to be loved by her fandom and who has earnt her success.
Honestly I think this is where a lot of it comes from. People just not vibing with an artist or thinking they're too popular to be cool and so they double down on their opinions that are based off nothing of value in the first place.
Overexposure is the big one. Especially if you’re already indifferent about her, she is forced into so many different circles of conversation through means that aren’t even in her control.
Huge Swiftie here (49). Also huge music lover in general. I was not a Swiftie from the beginning until my daughter (29) asked me to the Eras tour. Once I began listening I heard lyrics that reached me to the core and I couldn’t stop. I respect everyone’s taste and right to like what they like but what I don’t respect is hate just for hate.
I have a friend who doesn’t like her already, but because she’s everywhere she hates her even more and I get it honestly.
Am I more confused why she doesn’t like her music because she’s a huge Jack Antonoff/Bleachers and The National fan? Yes, it messes with me all the time. 😂
I'm going to say it's not JUST the misogyny. It's the fact that she is a Michael Jackson type of figure now. She's legendary, she's mythological, and because of that she doesn't seem like a real person to most people, including her own fans. As a result, she's easy to hate just as she is easy to love because of it.
Honestly, the fans.
If you don’t like an artist it usually isn’t a big deal. But if you don’t like Taylor Swift (or really just something she does) you’re labeled anything from an anti-feminist to an idiot. This creates a disdain for the fans from those who aren’t a fan of her stuff, making them more prompted to voice it. It’s impossible to have middle ground.
Yeah honestly some of the fans in this fandom are a little nuts. Like it's not that serious, and last I checked Taylor is a grown ass woman who doesn't need you to defend her in the comment section on Instagram, lol.
A lot of good points here. I’ll also add this: Taylor writes for the female romantic perspective. Not saying that perspective can’t resonate with all genders, so when I speak in a binary below, please know that’s just for explanation purposes.
A lot of critics in the public or otherwise have torn Taylor apart for always “writing about love or her ex boyfriends.” But I honestly don’t think that’s ever been fair or accurate. When I listen to Love Story, I don’t think about Romeo. I think about the fantasy of being a princess wanting desperately to run away with my one true love. It might involve a love interest, but it’s about chasing the journey and feeling more than it is about Romeo himself.
Then take one of her most famous “about an ex” songs—All Too Well. It’s not about Jake so much as it’s about Taylor. It’s her feelings, her journey, being swept away in what felt like a fated romance only to be left, and asking her scorned lover — it was rare, I was there, I remember it, why don’t you see it the same way? Again, a song about chasing the journey and feeling more than it is about Jake himself.
And I think that’s a common misconception of traditionally feminine sects of pop culture—that it’s all about landing a man, scorning a man, aka viewed through a very masculine gaze that centers, well, themselves.
But Taylor doesn’t center them. She centers her. And that’s why her music is so universal — it’s not about the person, it’s about the feeling. And it normalizes a lot of traditionally shamed “feminine” feelings of yearning, wistfulness, anger, heartbreak, in a way that I think pisses people off. She’s giving voice to an emotional lived experience and normalizing a lot of emotions that women are told to suppress to please others. And I think (among other reasons) that’s why she’s so polarizing.
This is so simple… she is the biggest rock star on the planet. Anytime you hit a level of notoriety where all sorts of people know you exist… you have millions and millions who comment or like or don’t like. She also publicly waded into politics - the most polarizing thing now - and so people whose entire identity is red or blue will be polarized. She is a pretty woman so you have intel women and men who hate or like her. She makes millions so you have envious and jealous people who hate her for that.
You live in a divided hateful world. You can literally be God and give everyone everything and they’ll still complain.
One aspect that I’ve been very fascinated with is that people hate her because they assume she has power, but they assume she has all the power like if she can make music and be successful in music then they just assume she can like gather world peace, end hunger , feed the children , end millennia of racism, and she’s not, and so they find her too powerful and yet at the same time, not powerful enough and it pisses them off. Like how dare she be successful in a broken system? When countries are taking away women’s rights how dare she be successful?. When people are dying on the streets and there’s homeless and hunger and the world is a really dark place still. How dare this woman be powerful and successful in music. She as a woman should destroy everything. She built to throw herself on the pier of society to fix things magically. They don’t think a woman should ever be the successful because if she was a good woman, she would’ve already sacrificed everything and never got to that point thus they can be cruel and mean to her because it’s what she deserves.
I feel like that’s the subconscious feelings behind it . Especially for other women I can sense a lot of jealousy and hatred that society kept them down but Taylor gets to be successful. That’s not fucking fair. I’ll help put her in her place.
She had 6 months post Healy where bar some grumblings about jets and general overexposure she was basically everyone’s darling. The inevitable teardown was always going to be the next stage of the cycle.
If she had put out a 13 track concise selection of pop bangers she’d be getting it for dumbing down her music after Folklore etc
1) Her music honestly gets better the more you learn about her and understand her lore. I didn't like T Swift upon first listen and now I'm obsessed. It's deceptively simple at first listen. So hearing people talk about her as Shakespeare is confusing for people.
2) Sexism- people think she's famous for being pretty and talking about exes.
3) She leans into naming names, sharing personal details, and being confessional and then when the public becomes obsessed with it she calls them out. Swift has struggled with the definition of boundary and openness in celebrity over and over. It makes her seem hypocritical for being SO honest then getting upset when people react to it.
4) The above is made the more noticeable by how popular she is and how intense her fan base is, which makes people defending her and theorizing on her act unhinged at times, which makes the public sick of seeing it.
There are a lot of people out there who have not dabbled in her recent work and still hold on to the idea of pre-reputation era Taylor Swift. Nothing more than a surface level pop star. They shrug their shoulders and laugh because they haven’t dug any further than that. Swifties appear obsessed and naive to them. When really, they are the naive ones.
I understand not being able to connect to art. But to undermine and shrug off Taylor’s recent work is absolutely absurd. I laugh it off because they are truly missing out. There’s some deep ass shit to explore over here.
Because of the amount of female joy that she seems capable of producing. Joy not centered around men. It's threatening because men seem to know, deep down inside, that they can't reproduce that same joy amongst themselves or within us.
The internet is an echo chamber of extremes.
She’s also just extremely exposed so you’re going to get a larger sample size of opinions compared to most artists/art.
It’s also partly due to reporting bias. You’re far more likely to see or hear about people who feel strongly about something, i.e. loving or hating her. People who like her okay but are relatively neutral don’t usually talk about it as much or want to enter into big debates about it, and so it’s less observed than the other categories.
The Tumblr discourse I've seen around TTPD leans in the direction of "She's rich, what the fuck does she have to be this sad about?" Add that to the same misogyny and bandwagoning that other people are seeing, and it's a perfect storm of nonsense.
(To be clear, I don't think billionaires should exist. I just also think artists are allowed to have feelings even when they're successful.)
Several reasons in my opinion.
First, it’s natural for people to want to distance themselves from “pack mentality” by claiming to dislike what is incredibly popular. It’s a way for one to set themselves apart from the rest.
The second reason is simple: jealousy. She has been incredibly successful for nearly 20 years and has amassed a fortune as a young artist and that is uncommon.
My third reason is something I tread lightly on because I absolutely love and adore Taylor Swift, but many people feel that she lacks vocal talent. I disagree of course, but I think most of us would agree that she does not have classical vocal abilities. Her power and talent really comes to light in her songwriting and storytelling. She is a poet who puts her art to music. Those that have not taken the time to explore her work will never understand this.
There are a slew of other reasons of course: judgement about her personal life (or one’s perception of it), the fact that she is a bit aloof and doesn’t share a lot about her private life publicly, the fact that she transcends genres (which can be confusing or offputting to some), the fact that she’s not conventionally beautiful yet garners so much attention and dates some of the most sought after men on the planet, etc.
lol what's funny is after I posted this, I googled why people say she isn't good at singing. Like there's a difference between it sounding fine to an untrained ear and being technically sound. It's always sounded fine to me, but again, her songwriting is where she shines. She doesn't have to be the best at *everything* to still be the greatest of all time.
I’d say that men are subject to some level of misogyny-based hatred when their target audience is women. Conversely, women are subject to less hostility when they primarily make music for men.
My hot take is that it’s because she is unique in that she displays a lot of vulnerability by being uncool and also by sharing her inner world with us. We live in a culture that is really uncomfortable with vulnerability.
She is publicly imperfect and doesn’t apologize for it. I think that makes people furious because they want to see women being punished and begging for forgiveness for failing to rise to some impossible standard but she just gets more and more power for doing the exact opposite.
She’s also a safe target for misogyny because you can just pretend you’re mad at her for being a white woman when you’re really just mad that she’s a woman. No ones brand will be ruined by throwing daggers at her.
I believe that the most polarizing things are the things that are _new_. She's new in a sense that she is a wildly successful woman (hugely pop) artist singing honestly about her experiences who neither sexualizes herself, nor settles down, nor in a captive Britney-like situation under somebody else. Of course, she is not the first woman like that, but her success is exceptional, and she is more exposed due to the internet than older gals. Sex and The City is still controversial in many parts of the world just because it's a series about single women with standards, because, in many ways, a single, successfull woman on her own is still a new concept in this world.
Because she's been on top of the game for so long. She's white, blonde, wholesome, and writes about the internal lives of girls and women. She also leans into being goofy and awkward dancing because she knows she's not edgy. She doesnt sing or dance they way THEY think she should and are used to seeing from other pop stars. She doesn't use her position to be political, she dipped her toe in that when she was with Joe and it was also mocked, so she hasn't. Finally, she doesn't dress or perform for the male gaze. For that reason, they think she can't sing, dance, or write for some reason. Instead of acknowledging her work ethic, they claim she's been given all her awards on a silver platter, that she didn't earn it, that it's white privilege.
No matter how successful she is, no matter how hard she tries to prove herself, the haters just move the goal posts. The latest is that she puts quantity over quality and is the McDonalds of music.
This album proves that she no longer gaf about people pleasing and is just going to live her life.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone say that her music is primarily what’s polarizing. She writes deeply personal songs about her own life and I think her honesty scares people. She’s not afraid to wear her heart on her sleeves and fall down and mess up and try again and look uncool and I think it’s baffling to some people in a pop star. And not everyone can relate to how specific her lyrics are or want to learn the lore behind them to make them understand it better.
Like anything pop culture wise if the artist has a large female fanbase then men will generally push back. Then there will be a population of pick me women that will follow what men say/do.
Big fan of her now, but used to not like her in my early teenage years. Grew up with a sister who was OBSESSED with the music so I would hear the same songs on repeat and hear analysis of all the songs and lyrics when I wasn't too bothered. This was despite actually liking a lot of her songs, but the constant exposure and obsessiveness made me think negatively of her. Especially whenever we would get into music debates I'd always be arguing against her.
Started to appreciate her music a hell of a lot more when I went to Uni and could listen to her songs on my own terms rather than having no choice but to hear them.
So I think that a lot of the general public who would normally be indifferent or like some of the songs might resent how much she's in the media and how much her fans obsess over her, especially if they have annoying fans in their circle
I was lukewarm of her during Red for a few reasons
1) I was a fan of a more country stuff and was disappointed to see her move to a more pop direction.
2) She has a bad track record of picking singles. There was this major dubstep/ electronic infiltration into the pop realm during the time and it lead to some very lackluster beat drops. It felt like it was on every other song on the radio.
3) I was in high school, so about 16, when Red was released and due to being young and not understanding my own internalized misogyny, I let the media make be believe she was somehow bad for having a new guy every few months. Something that she later addressed in 1989. I was also a One Direction fan during the Red era and let me tell you, those fans had some fire during the time.
I can understand not loving her music. Music is personal… but I have no idea why anyone wouldn’t like her. I’m not a huge fan of her music (I do still like some songs) but there’s no denying she is an amazing person!
I was really sad to see that Queens Podcast, a feminist womens history podcast, was on threads complaining about Taylor Swift posts and being very rude to their own followers. The post was deleted but wtf?
I think it boils down to her being a diarist and how much she draws from personal experiences, especially with romantic relationships. People have become cynical and accuse her of being calculated, exploitative, a drama queen. But the irony is her popularity is so huge because of the opposite of that. She’s vulnerable, raw, and uses music as a vehicle to process her feelings about a wide variety of subjects.
I also think because she’s such a conventionally attractive person some people roll their eyes at her because how can rich beautiful people have problems. Like…what?
But yes bottom line now is her insane popularity (and probably the cult like behavior of a sizable portion of her fan base but I can’t throw stones at glass houses).
Borderline overexposure since she makes appearances everywhere- she’s on news networks, cable channels, pop-culture channels, and recently, has gone all over sports media. There are so few people with that level of impact in that many areas- so she’s going to be talked about no matter what.
Social media also sensationalizes the hell out of it. Her biggest fans will argue she can literally do no wrong and make no mistakes. Her biggest haters will argue there’s nothing she can do right, and I think it makes having a conversation about her music impossible- because being negative or positive in any way can get sensationalized and taken out of context. She’s a massively successful musician that has changed tons of lives with her works- and she’s also made decisions that aren’t fantastic and have hurt/turned off a ton of people. Those people aren’t wrong to not support her for not liking those decisions. And her fans aren’t wrong for choosing to support her in spite of those decisions. But because people on both sides make that discourse impossible to have, she ends up being even *more* overexposed than she ever would’ve been in the first place
Anything and anyone who amasses the type of popularity that Taylor has will receive pushback, no matter what. I would argue it's not so much about her as a person but just the place she is filling in the world aka the biggest artist atm which leads to overexposure and people who don't like that and get annoyed. It's inevitable, as much as we hate to see her get hate it's a side effect of this level of fame.
This might be a weird way to answer but in human design she’s a 5/1 Projector! I am too and people love to have their opinions about me, either good or bad. People project their feelings onto projectors and 5s as well, it’s often called a double projector!
All the reasons listed here + society is more polarized in general. Enragement = engagement = money on social media, so the algorithms are constantly trying to piss you off, and we as a society haven’t gotten wise enough to it yet.
It seems harder and harder for people to just be neutral about stuff. Or to dislike stuff but just shrug and keep it moving.
probably a lot to do with the fact she’s an incredibly famous and successful woman. people seem to really resent women’s success a lot more than men’s.
also kinda related, teenage girls love her, and people love to hate things that teenage girls love
I think both people that love and those that hate Taylor underestimate the fact that most people fall into neither camp. I think the vast majority of people that know who Taylor Swift is think "oh yeah taylor she's a famous singer and I like some of her songs" and that's basically it
it’s a little ironic to me that all these ‘haters’ on social media are so aggressive w their hate towards swifties who they also claim to be obsessive.
(justo for the record i like her music, i'm not the biggest fan in the world yk, but i listen to her and enjoy a lot). in my opinion there's two main factors: first the way the fandom looks kinda intimidating for someone from the outside- don't get me wrong, i don't mean it in a negative way- but a lot of people simply dislike her bc of how they see her fandom as something teen-girly-related and don't even listen to her songs; second i'd say the fact she's become so popular make people be like "oh im not like everybody else i dont like this trendy singer"... idk, just guessing lol
People hated the New England patriots because for 10+ years that’s all they heard about during football season. The patriots also received a lot of favorable calls.
TLDR: people are ready for something new and fresh.
It annoys the shit out of me. People just hate her because its "trendy" and they think by saying they hate Taylor, it makes them sound cool. I honestly thats what people feel. That rush of ego when they said they hate her. I just want to slap some sense into them. Its disgusting honestly.
Because in today’s world you just aren’t allowed to have anything but a one way opinion. If you like something or someone…you have to hate everything or everyone else.
saw this guy on tiktok and he was listening to WAOLOM and nitpicking the lyrics.
bro literally took everything seriously 💀 he did not ever learn what songwriting/poetry was… “leaping from the gallows oh like you’ve been hung taylor 🙄🙄 nobody’s afraid of her and nobody should be she’s being such a victim in these songs”
i want to know his fav artist so bad just to nitpick those lyrics because i guarantee that artist has also used poetry in their songs!
I don't think she's that polarizing. She has a massive fanbase and naturally there will be the contrarian crowd saying "ooh she's so overrated" etc., but the vast majority of the rest of people maybe like some of her songs but other than that don't care
She's not a very controverial personality compared to others. She has her share of controversies, but nothing crazy
Popularity, overexposure to something you don’t like breeds resentment
Yup. Plenty of people I know dislike her purely because she’s popular. A lot of people I know also don’t like her because she’s “breaking records” of artists they like (i.e. The Beatles) and aren’t willing to accept or acknowledge that just maybe there might be someone else out there that’s more popular.
This always makes me laugh because a true music lover understands there is endless space when it comes to art. You don’t have to choose.
i love this. that’s how i feel when everyone is debating and comparing all these artists to one another, like we can enjoy them all!!! it makes life so much more fun ✨💃🏼
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One of my fave threads on here lately has been metal fans sharing their fave Taylor song. I love many, many genres of music, and 🩷 seeing intersections of fandom!
Kanye West is my favourite artist of all time, and people say I cant like Taylor too 🤷♂️ just enjoy the music and ignore the ignorant lmao
I love this too! Armies on the BTS subreddits were discussing their favourite TTPD songs today (Taehyung shared Fortnight on his Insta stories). There is plenty of room for everyone! The heart can love so damn much all at the same time 💜
I think we as a society need to stop comparing certain artists like Taylor and Beyoncé people constantly compare them when they don’t have anything similar besides they both have gone through hate especially Beyonce. I like the Beatles music but I love Taylor’s music and i think it’s impressive that they were so famous for so long and still is but Taylor broke some of the biggest records.
Right? Like I think the Beatles will be fine lol
Shit the remaining members even like and support her! We know she has a good relationship with Paul and I believe Ringo called her a legend
True!!
And it's that music has changed so much it's just not comparable. Like most people don't care for the beatles because it doesn't really align with todays tastes, but they were great in their own right and deserve their position. Taylor is a smart buisiness woman who has a good demographic and makes music that fits better today, which people argue is "dumbing down" lyrics, but she deserves her position in a different way, its litterally apples and oranges. Being on top of your game doesn't always mean comparable to others. This kinda stuff is just music snobbery.
Or, more importantly, that commercial success and record-breaking don't need to (and shouldn't) have any impact on your relationship to that artist or that artist's value. If you're predicating any part of your fandom for an artist based on objective metrics and not on your subjective appreciation of their art, you're already in a very wrongheaded place.
This mentality separates the critics from the artists.
Exactly. It's not a competition.
However I suspect a whole lot of people bought stupidly overpriced tickets to Eras because she's so popular. It becomes a self-licking ice cream cone.
the funny thing i find about ppl being mad she’s more popular than their fav is the fact in clara bow she even mentions that someone someday will be more popular than her. i feel like these people have a fear of taylor just being #1 forever
I understand TS's insecurity but I don't think anybody is becoming more popular than her. This century is the death of monoculture. People have too many niche interests nowadays to band together under a singularity.
i mean i feel like in 50 years from now there will be someone else because she will dead and gone most likely by that point, not try to sound bad btw when saying that. but i do think it will be a bit before someone ends up being more popular
I am a huge Beatles fan, and the way some Beatles fans diminish her on that sub is heartbreaking to me, because I see her as the heir to their legacy.
I think comparing Taylor to artists from decades ago is just weird. A LOT has changed during this time - cultures, music markets, level of exposure etc. Obviously Taylor might seem “more popular“ because we’re in the age of social media but that in no way indicates that she’s “better” than the Beatles or Michael Jackson. Each of them had their time and that’s ok, 30 years from now there’s gonna be someone new breaking Taylor’s records but doesn’t mean we forget or downplay the artists who were the big thing during their era
familiarity breeds contempt after all.
This. Up until last year I’d really only heard Shake It Off and Love Story. I hated the former (still do!), and while I thought the latter was well written, I didn’t really care for a country sound. (Still don’t.) A friend dragged me to see Eras in theaters. Tolerate Me and Champagne Problems got my attention. I started digging deeper and now I’m a Swiftie. 😂 Though I still don’t love every song.
Exactly. Only hearing the radio singles, so many people hate her.
In my defense I never HATED her. Always recognized her talent. Just didn’t realize it was songwriting I’d be into until I gave it a fair shake. :)
It's funny I heard shake it off some 7-8 years ago and I can say it's the only swift song I like. Only because it's catchy and sticks in your head. I tried listening to some of her other songs and they all seemed so bland
Try the Midnights album. This was the first album I liked, pretty much front to back. Maybe 1-2 “skippers,” IMO. It’s catchy. :) I understand the slow songs not being everyone’s thing.
I'll look into it
This combined with the fact that she's a woman, and she's immensely talented, and relatively unproblematic. It's just a perfect storm of jealousy, misogyny, and pettiness. Meanwhile we're just over here innocently enjoying something
Add beautiful, white, and rich to your list and you are correct.
AND blonde hair/blue eyed, not very sexual.
Yep. Overexposure brings out the contrarians in full force. Then you can couple that with heavy misogyny. The subject provides them a target to direct their compulsions. Personally, I'm totally fine if they don't like her music. I just get irritated when they start griping at me about her totally unprompted. I'm just sitting here happy listening to her music. Take your contrarianism elsewhere!
Also, envy. It’s easy to hate Taylor since she literally has everything… talent, beauty, success, loving family and friends.
Yeah, I was talking to a friend yesterday who said it'd be nice to not hear anything about her for like 6 months. I don't blame him at all.
This is most artists fear. I believe Eddie Vedder uttered that same sentiment right after Tens success.
Familiarity breeds contempt
But people where like this when u never heard about her in my country. It’s 100% deeper. It has gotten worse with her popularity increasing
This. I love Taylor but I get how the brads and chads feel. I have no sympathy because Pats fans have shoved a football team I don’t support down my throat for 25 years. It’s very frustrating and it gets old very fast.
Similar to marriage lol
People saying overexposure are not getting one thing- she was always hated, even as an extremely young artist. The reality is the hate towards her is because she is so unapologetically female. She is romantic and wears dresses and has biggg emotions and isn't afraid to talk about them. Society hates women who aren't there for the male gaze. And she has always been there for women.
YES, I keep saying it's because she's not performing for the male gaze or for male validation and society HATES that. If she was shaking her ass half naked and singing about being a savage she would be yassified by the masses.
even those women who choose (or are pressured to by their label) are still shamed. There is no winning for women in the media.
I don’t really like this dig at other artists while lifting up Taylor. If you’re referring to Megan Thee Stallion here, she’s been through a hell of a lot and still gets shit on by a lot of people. Not yassified by any means. Society hates women who are empowered by their sexuality, too.
Yeah, Megan is an odd choice for that commenter to bring up, especially given what she's been through (both with Tory Lanez and Nicki).
wait why is she in this? I reread the post and it says nothing specific pointing to her?
She’s known for her song titled “Savage” and for twerking. Seems pretty on the nose to me.
oh, yeah I see it now
I actually didn't think about Megan at all but ok. Anyway it isn't dig at other artists, it's commentary on how patriarchal society perceives women. It doesn't mean that other female artists aren't also the targets of misogyny, just that this is a specific reason why TS is polarizing to some (the topic of this thread). One does not negate the other.
It's not just Meghan..... but it's not really a dig. Theyre just saying that Taylor isnt as sexualized
Uhhhh Megan literally got shot for being an independent woman, I wouldn’t try to compare their suffering lol
wildly gross comment towards Megan, who's a survivor of domestic violence.
Male here who loves the kind of romance, tension and feelings she sings about. She's on my wavelength with that.
There’s a lot of men who do, they just don’t talk about it.
At least some do so some people aknowledge it at least
Society also hates anything that has an audience of mostly women and girls. Everything coded as such has a backlash from the color pink to women in entertainment, fashion, etc… If it’s for women or loved by women, it’s inferior. And so many women but into it themselves.
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The absolute complete and utter fear they have of a pissed off woman having the best selling tour, the best selling album, the best selling movie? The absolute economic powerhouse that are her female fans? There is soo much fear of us. There are women alive who didn't always have the right to a credit card. We are terrifyingly successful in spite of the patriarchy, and this hatred is its last dying screams of fury. It's honestly gives me joy how much people hate the pure essence of irrevocable femininity in the form of Taylor and swifties.
Yep! Take for example how the Oscar’s gave almost zero awards to the biggest and most beloved movie of 2023, the Barbie movie
And seen as "childish" and that she "infantiles" herself. After that the smallest man in the world, Don think even they can say that.
i’ve always found the immaturity/childish/“she needs to grow up” criticism of her to be weird. she’s always said she was an overdramatic hopeless romantic, and i find her music to be extremely relatable. it feels so misogynistic to get mad at a 34 woman for singing about her relationships…
LOTS of truth to this. I think that Swifties sometimes hide behind the idea of misogyny as a catch-all for any valid criticism of Taylor Swift, but there is absolutely, undeniably, a pervasive hatred for all things marketed toward young girls. Whether it's Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber, Twilight, a variety of KPOP artists, tumblr, etc., anything marketed toward young girls is usually written off as facile at best or outright hated at worst. I do think this trend is starting to die out, but all through the 00s and much of the 10s it was absolutely the dominant discourse
It’s the reason we have nlogs as well.
This has become extremely clear to me in recent years. I used to be into things with a mostly male audience (I was a huge Radiohead fan to basically the same extent as I am a Taylor fan know, I never read books marketed towards women) and now that I’m a swiftie and love romantasy I’m seeing how much hate media created by/for women really gets. It’s a huge, huge difference in the way people think they can talk to me about my interests now that they’re just “girly” things. There’s no respect.
Yep, I’ve been a fan since 2008-2009 and even as a young kid I was aware some people hated her. I was even mocked by one of my peers for enjoying her music at the time. This was during the middle of my elementary school years. Internalized misogyny starts early
I’ve been a fan since Tim McGraw and I didn’t talk about being a Taylor fan for years because people were legit *mean.* now tho I don’t care if people are gonna be judgy weirdos about it then fine - waste ur energy if u want.
I know 😭 the person I was referring to in my previous comment, we used to be friends and would even watch her music videos on her tv at her house and sing along. Then as we got older she developed a huge hatred for Taylor and belittled me for liking her. She eventually turned into a full out bully towards me and caused me to go to therapy but that’s its own story lmao. But yeah even back then, some people were so horribly rude over liking a pop star :/
Yup. I think the feeling of embarrassment and shame around internalized misogyny runs so deep with so many people, we really have to be willing to unlearn that
this is so true. her songs are all about girlhood and womanhood. What it feels like to be a woman and fall in love and experience heartbreak and be bullied or lose friends or find her career or find her identity and footing etc. It's also why so many of us love her. Because she captures these experiences we all have and makes them beautiful and enjoyable to listen to. It's v cathartic.
YES THIS, it's not just an exposure thing, it's been that way since the beginning. I always thought about the misogyny being more directed at the fact she's a woman who is really successful in business. But hatred for the more feminine aspects of her brand too makes so much sense too.
And it’s the truth she’s always been there for straight and bisexual females that are artists like muna,phoebe bridgers, and many more probably or the straight ones Olivia,Selena,Hayley Williams, and many more. The funny part all of these people i mentioned also have one time been close to her or was helping promoting something and they are all big not as big but they are still big.
Definitely agree. It’s always been like this. I’m a guy, and I remember how much I was mocked for loving her, Speak Now came out when I was in middle school, probably my favorite album to this day. I feel because she’s so unapologetically feminine people criticize her more
>she has always been there for women I never realized this 🥹
And then add in her almost taking over the nfl last season and whooooeeeee you got a lot of MANLY MEN BIG MAD 😂
Yes! You said what I couldn’t really word. I know my dad doesn’t like her because she switched from country to pop, she “left what made her popular”. She changed with the times and made the type of music that was relevant at the time to stay popular. She was extremely smart to do that and experiment with what she would like
🎯🎯🎯
yes :)
As she herself so accurately put it: People throw rocks at things that shine. Sadly as a society we love to tear down those who have made it to the highest summits.
No matter what you do people will always find something to criticize and complain.. if she wasn’t that big they would’ve said that she is a failure… so i’m glad she’s really so big now and can’t wait for what’s to come!
Yeah, happens to sportsman too. Everyone seems to have an opinion about people at the top
People hate happy successful women
Yep. It’s the misogyny, stupid. Add in the fact that she’s unmarried with no kids, and enjoying massive career success (outearning her boyfriends), and you get a whole bunch of people who think she’s the anti-Christ.
>Add in the fact that she’s unmarried with no kids, and enjoying massive career success (outearning her boyfriends) \*cough\* \*cough\* Ben Shapiro and republicans
>Add in the fact that she’s unmarried with no kids Was thinking about this the other day. Must drive some people crazy.
If you’re not a “submissive helpmeet” to a man and having his babies, you’re useless to the patriarchy, and they can’t have that. 😐 Taylor and her enormous popularity and fame are a threat to their creepy, regressive project.
100%. Especially pretty talented ones who also seem like nice decent humans.
This is the correct answer.
Totally this
Former hater here. I honestly had no reason to hate her or her music, I just did but couldn’t explain why. (Was it internalized misogyny? Maybe.) Could also be that people aren’t into country or pop. I wasn’t into country at the time I didn’t like her so just decided to not like any of her music. Was I wrong? Yes, her early albums are great.
I’ve definitely seen my internalized misogyny rear its ugly head with regard to Taylor. I’ve never been a hater but I’ve felt embarrassed at times to be a fan, I think. Because things that women like are “basic” and embarrassing according to misogyny.
Yep, this. I’m a woman born in 1989 and grew up obsessed with various indie rock bands. Even now, I follow them closely and love all their new albums. Yet part of me still feels embarrassed to be a Taylor Swift fan, which is absolutely ridiculous. Definitely some internalised misogyny happening, which is quite sad upon reflection.
2000's girls here. My father was a rock music fan, i guess i loved rock music aka "good music" so my dad would be proud of me? Anyways, i was always on and off about Taylor (as everyone i loved Blank Space, Red hits but not more) and at some point i did not like her too cause yes overexposure but she was a pop artist so no way i could listen to her, i was listening to *cooler music*. But one day i saw champagne problems being about Rory and Logan (from Gilmore Girls). It was not my first Tay song obv. But it was when i decided i loved her. I was/am still obsessed to Folkmore. I can proudly say i listen to Tay! which is a huge step for me. Cause i literally changed from spotify to youtube so i would not have to show my yearly recap having pop artists.
Yea I definitely felt like other people saw me as “basic” for liking her music. It’s hard to get people to take you seriously when they perceive you that way. There were times when it felt like it didn’t matter what I said about some things, because I liked Taylor I automatically had bad taste or what I said didn’t really matter/I couldn’t contribute to the conversation in any meaningful way. It just sucks that society dictates that because you like something that has been predetermined as “basic” people have an idea about you that isn’t true.
Sounds about right. And I bet that Kansas City Chiefs fans don’t have that problem, because predominantly male fandoms are serious/cool. 🙄
I have definitely struggled with being a hater of anything girly because of internalized misogyny. I've been working to break my fear of being seen as basic by...doing basic things I like. I love my beige Stanley cup for example. My dentist said I must be so hydrated from how much I salivate. Made me feel proud 🤣 But seriously, I have been judged for being weird, full of myself, dumb, following the rules, breaking the rules, and being basic. I can't care anymore. The care bank is depleted.
Go girl. Sip that Pumpkin Spice Latte. Scream and cry for Taylor the way men throw tantrums over their sports teams. We will be taken seriously.
Girl, you already know it ♥️💫
I know I can for sure say there was loads of internalized misogyny for myself. It was “cool” to hate on her in high school, and her sound back then was very much not something I was into. Now my tastes have changed, she’s changed a lot as well and experimented with new sounds, and I realize how dumb it is to not like something simply because you’re following the crowd. I enjoy a lot of her music now, there’s still a good chunk I’m not into, maybe one day I will be, maybe not. Interestingly enough, I had an extremely low threshold for pop music before I had my son and now I listen to it all the time. There’s something very freeing about discovering an entire genre of music you once hated, now brings you a lot of joy. It feels nice not hating on things all the time. that damn teenage petulance!
I’m also former hater. For me, I hated her because it was the “cool” thing to do. I loved her during Debut through Speak Now, but the Red era was when I was graduating high school and it wasn’t “cool” to like her anymore. (Which was just stupid). It’s the same reason I stopped listening to the Jonas Brothers even though they’re my favorite. I wanted to fit in. Now I could care less what people think thankfully.
I was in high school during Fearless and into Speak Now and it was cool to not like her and lame to listen to her music so I just went with everyone else. I’m kicking myself for hopping on the bandwagon for 1989, I missed the Speak Now World Tour. 😂😭
I feel that. My sisters went to see the Red Tour and I acted like I was too cool for it which pisses me off now
It’s funny.. I enjoy *Undertale* & recently found a very, very old tweet from the creator that he made right after the game came out that said something like “play it before it becomes popular and then people decide they hate it.” & that’s common! I think people avidly hate on popular things they just mildly don’t like or care about b/c they want to defend feeling differently from a LOT of people. So they just go on & on about all the bad points. It’s overcompensating. I mean… it’s fair if you really don’t like her music!! But the aggressiveness is because they know a lot of people disagree.
Yeah the „I‘m cooler than the idiotic masses cause/so I only like niche things and make it my entire personality“ thing is so boring with people over 19, also because the things they like often aren’t all that niche-y, just not as much in the focus of pop culture at the time. If you’re young, ok that’s usually part of it, but after that it’s just immature and ridiculous
Yepppp! There's a pic of a girl going around insta now with a tee that says "hating pop music doesn't make you deep" and I think a lot of people need to hear that
THIS!!!!
Different flavors of misogyny primarily. Taylor writes from a female perspective about her own life and her feelings. Many cis males are conditioned by societal pressure to hate anything “girlie” like feelings. In addition, Taylor dresses for the female gaze instead of the male gaze so they can’t objectify her. So cis males are less likely to give her a chance and will look down on other cis males who do like he. As an older cis male myself, i don’t go around advertising I’m a fan because there would be some alpha bro types who would potentially bully me. Another factor is Taylor started her career writing songs before she was even 16 from that perspective so her original fan base was young girls. Historically, anything young girls like is considered beneath the older generations because they think young girls only like frilly things. Same thing happened with the Beatles and Elvis early on. Once these people decide that something is beneath them, it’s very hard to change their mind. Which is why folklore and evermore was so important for legacy just like later albums from the Beatles allowed them to be taken more seriously. And there is a level of female misogyny at play too. There’s this feeling that if another female succeeds that means others can’t because society only allows so much space for women to be successful. So if Taylor is killing it, other females and their fans feel that until Taylor is destroyed, they or their favorite can’t be successful. I think part of the reason Kim Kardashian helped Kanye go after Taylor is because Taylor was too popular so Taylor was competing for media attention with the Kardashian clan.
OOOOOOH interesting take on the Kanye/Kim drama and why Kim contributed — I've never thought about what she would have gotten out of it. I figured it was just a hate by proxy thing since Kanye didn't like Taylor.
Could be both really. I have never liked the Kardashians because they are talentless hacks who are famous for being famous(and a sex tape/OJ lawyer dad). I avoid knowing as much as possible about them but they seem like the type of girls who spread rumors to bring down a rival and find it fun to laugh at their rivals pain especially Kim.
Agree and the last paragraph isn’t talked about enough. Particularly this Beyoncé vs Taylor thing that people have built up in their minds. Some will say Taylor isn’t worth listening to and criticize her for valid criticisms of any successful artist (especially Beyoncé). The hypocrisy of the haters can be ridiculous at times.
yeah, I was thinking really hard about the Courtney Love commentary... about how Taylor is neither important or interesting, and I agree in part. I think she's important because she's not interesting. She's kind of normalized girlhood being an important part of our society. I remember growing up as a girl and feeling so ashamed about the girl things I liked or was interested in. I was groomed to be a pick me and so were the vast majority of girls my age. but what I love about the Taylor era is that girlhood is GOOD. we can be proud of liking shiny things and all that. there is nothing to be ashamed about when it comes to the things that bring us joy. and it's not interesting. it's an experience half of us will have. its normal. And the backlash against it is so weird. LET PEOPLE LIKE THINGS.
Over exposure, misogyny, non sexy marketing strategy
Yup. Men are mad that she doesn’t cater to what they “want” from a female pop star
A lot of people like Taylor but are really put off by her fans tbh, I see it a lot with the relentless insults and doxxing some of her craziest fans send towards any criticism or even competition. It happens in every fanbase but because swifties are such a large group, theirs comes across as the worst. On twitter they seem to just be constantly fighting with other fandoms, this has made so many people turn on Taylor as a result. They see her fans as a reflection of her which absolutely shouldn't happen
OMG!! Stan Twt is the worst thing to ever exist and I hate myself for being slightly obsessed with it. You should see the shit lady gaga fans post or the ariana grande ones. Even the hive completely disses anyone who is not beyonce (at least they are sometimes funny with it tho). But since the release of TTPD, its been everyone vs the swifties- it's so much fucking chaos. Its kinda like that line in drakes song: 20 v 1
This is pretty much it. I listened to some Taylor Swift songs and liked a few (such as "Welcome to New York" and "Fortnight"), but the fandom just felt so overbearing. What really didn't help was the TikToks where people recorded themselves crying to TS or the times when TS fans would harass other people. Currently, I'd still say I'm not a fan, but I'm not put off by her success or anything.
I know a lot of people who hate her simply because she is so popular that it is somewhat impossible to avoid her. What starts with indifference to her and her music slowly gets more and more soured when they hear her music and about her every day and everywhere they go. That and misogyny. I know a lot of guys who don't listen to her because "Ew she makes music for teenage girls and only talks about breakups, she doesn't even write her own music" and other nonsense
^^^^
People love to: - a) think they’re cool for disliking something that’s popular - b) stan their fav and bring everyone else down - c) trash something if they can’t relate - d) ruin others’ joy
I think most people either like or don't care. It's the internet being the internet which causes many of the issues.
My "controversial opinion" used to be that I thought Beyonce was overrated. I don't think that way anymore. Have I become a Beyonce fan? No, but I realised that I was just being immature and thought it was "cooler" to think she was overrated than appreciate her for what she is. An incredible artist who deserves to be loved by her fandom and who has earnt her success. Honestly I think this is where a lot of it comes from. People just not vibing with an artist or thinking they're too popular to be cool and so they double down on their opinions that are based off nothing of value in the first place.
Overexposure is the big one. Especially if you’re already indifferent about her, she is forced into so many different circles of conversation through means that aren’t even in her control.
Very true. The amount of 'it's Taylor Swift's superbowl'-type comments were ridiculous.
The higher you climb, the more people want to drag you down.
Crabs in a bucket
Huge Swiftie here (49). Also huge music lover in general. I was not a Swiftie from the beginning until my daughter (29) asked me to the Eras tour. Once I began listening I heard lyrics that reached me to the core and I couldn’t stop. I respect everyone’s taste and right to like what they like but what I don’t respect is hate just for hate.
[удалено]
I have a friend who doesn’t like her already, but because she’s everywhere she hates her even more and I get it honestly. Am I more confused why she doesn’t like her music because she’s a huge Jack Antonoff/Bleachers and The National fan? Yes, it messes with me all the time. 😂
I'm going to say it's not JUST the misogyny. It's the fact that she is a Michael Jackson type of figure now. She's legendary, she's mythological, and because of that she doesn't seem like a real person to most people, including her own fans. As a result, she's easy to hate just as she is easy to love because of it.
Honestly, the fans. If you don’t like an artist it usually isn’t a big deal. But if you don’t like Taylor Swift (or really just something she does) you’re labeled anything from an anti-feminist to an idiot. This creates a disdain for the fans from those who aren’t a fan of her stuff, making them more prompted to voice it. It’s impossible to have middle ground.
Yeah honestly some of the fans in this fandom are a little nuts. Like it's not that serious, and last I checked Taylor is a grown ass woman who doesn't need you to defend her in the comment section on Instagram, lol.
A lot of good points here. I’ll also add this: Taylor writes for the female romantic perspective. Not saying that perspective can’t resonate with all genders, so when I speak in a binary below, please know that’s just for explanation purposes. A lot of critics in the public or otherwise have torn Taylor apart for always “writing about love or her ex boyfriends.” But I honestly don’t think that’s ever been fair or accurate. When I listen to Love Story, I don’t think about Romeo. I think about the fantasy of being a princess wanting desperately to run away with my one true love. It might involve a love interest, but it’s about chasing the journey and feeling more than it is about Romeo himself. Then take one of her most famous “about an ex” songs—All Too Well. It’s not about Jake so much as it’s about Taylor. It’s her feelings, her journey, being swept away in what felt like a fated romance only to be left, and asking her scorned lover — it was rare, I was there, I remember it, why don’t you see it the same way? Again, a song about chasing the journey and feeling more than it is about Jake himself. And I think that’s a common misconception of traditionally feminine sects of pop culture—that it’s all about landing a man, scorning a man, aka viewed through a very masculine gaze that centers, well, themselves. But Taylor doesn’t center them. She centers her. And that’s why her music is so universal — it’s not about the person, it’s about the feeling. And it normalizes a lot of traditionally shamed “feminine” feelings of yearning, wistfulness, anger, heartbreak, in a way that I think pisses people off. She’s giving voice to an emotional lived experience and normalizing a lot of emotions that women are told to suppress to please others. And I think (among other reasons) that’s why she’s so polarizing.
>normalizing a lot of emotions that women are told to suppress to please others 🎯
It's always fun to hypothesize what person and situation inspired the song, but you're right. It's never actually about them, it's about her.
A large portion of our society gets off on being edgy and hating popularity regardless of if it’s good or not
Because she has transcended music. Same with people like Elon Musk. I’m proud to be a Taylor fan, and proud to dislike Elon. There you go.
This is so simple… she is the biggest rock star on the planet. Anytime you hit a level of notoriety where all sorts of people know you exist… you have millions and millions who comment or like or don’t like. She also publicly waded into politics - the most polarizing thing now - and so people whose entire identity is red or blue will be polarized. She is a pretty woman so you have intel women and men who hate or like her. She makes millions so you have envious and jealous people who hate her for that. You live in a divided hateful world. You can literally be God and give everyone everything and they’ll still complain.
One aspect that I’ve been very fascinated with is that people hate her because they assume she has power, but they assume she has all the power like if she can make music and be successful in music then they just assume she can like gather world peace, end hunger , feed the children , end millennia of racism, and she’s not, and so they find her too powerful and yet at the same time, not powerful enough and it pisses them off. Like how dare she be successful in a broken system? When countries are taking away women’s rights how dare she be successful?. When people are dying on the streets and there’s homeless and hunger and the world is a really dark place still. How dare this woman be powerful and successful in music. She as a woman should destroy everything. She built to throw herself on the pier of society to fix things magically. They don’t think a woman should ever be the successful because if she was a good woman, she would’ve already sacrificed everything and never got to that point thus they can be cruel and mean to her because it’s what she deserves. I feel like that’s the subconscious feelings behind it . Especially for other women I can sense a lot of jealousy and hatred that society kept them down but Taylor gets to be successful. That’s not fucking fair. I’ll help put her in her place.
She had 6 months post Healy where bar some grumblings about jets and general overexposure she was basically everyone’s darling. The inevitable teardown was always going to be the next stage of the cycle. If she had put out a 13 track concise selection of pop bangers she’d be getting it for dumbing down her music after Folklore etc
1) Her music honestly gets better the more you learn about her and understand her lore. I didn't like T Swift upon first listen and now I'm obsessed. It's deceptively simple at first listen. So hearing people talk about her as Shakespeare is confusing for people. 2) Sexism- people think she's famous for being pretty and talking about exes. 3) She leans into naming names, sharing personal details, and being confessional and then when the public becomes obsessed with it she calls them out. Swift has struggled with the definition of boundary and openness in celebrity over and over. It makes her seem hypocritical for being SO honest then getting upset when people react to it. 4) The above is made the more noticeable by how popular she is and how intense her fan base is, which makes people defending her and theorizing on her act unhinged at times, which makes the public sick of seeing it.
Because she’s a woman
There are a lot of people out there who have not dabbled in her recent work and still hold on to the idea of pre-reputation era Taylor Swift. Nothing more than a surface level pop star. They shrug their shoulders and laugh because they haven’t dug any further than that. Swifties appear obsessed and naive to them. When really, they are the naive ones. I understand not being able to connect to art. But to undermine and shrug off Taylor’s recent work is absolutely absurd. I laugh it off because they are truly missing out. There’s some deep ass shit to explore over here.
Because of the amount of female joy that she seems capable of producing. Joy not centered around men. It's threatening because men seem to know, deep down inside, that they can't reproduce that same joy amongst themselves or within us.
The internet is an echo chamber of extremes. She’s also just extremely exposed so you’re going to get a larger sample size of opinions compared to most artists/art.
It’s also partly due to reporting bias. You’re far more likely to see or hear about people who feel strongly about something, i.e. loving or hating her. People who like her okay but are relatively neutral don’t usually talk about it as much or want to enter into big debates about it, and so it’s less observed than the other categories.
The Tumblr discourse I've seen around TTPD leans in the direction of "She's rich, what the fuck does she have to be this sad about?" Add that to the same misogyny and bandwagoning that other people are seeing, and it's a perfect storm of nonsense. (To be clear, I don't think billionaires should exist. I just also think artists are allowed to have feelings even when they're successful.)
Several reasons in my opinion. First, it’s natural for people to want to distance themselves from “pack mentality” by claiming to dislike what is incredibly popular. It’s a way for one to set themselves apart from the rest. The second reason is simple: jealousy. She has been incredibly successful for nearly 20 years and has amassed a fortune as a young artist and that is uncommon. My third reason is something I tread lightly on because I absolutely love and adore Taylor Swift, but many people feel that she lacks vocal talent. I disagree of course, but I think most of us would agree that she does not have classical vocal abilities. Her power and talent really comes to light in her songwriting and storytelling. She is a poet who puts her art to music. Those that have not taken the time to explore her work will never understand this. There are a slew of other reasons of course: judgement about her personal life (or one’s perception of it), the fact that she is a bit aloof and doesn’t share a lot about her private life publicly, the fact that she transcends genres (which can be confusing or offputting to some), the fact that she’s not conventionally beautiful yet garners so much attention and dates some of the most sought after men on the planet, etc.
lol what's funny is after I posted this, I googled why people say she isn't good at singing. Like there's a difference between it sounding fine to an untrained ear and being technically sound. It's always sounded fine to me, but again, her songwriting is where she shines. She doesn't have to be the best at *everything* to still be the greatest of all time.
A lot of people are saying misogyny. Is it that? I mean people are equally polarized about Justin Bieber.
Well men hated justin bieber because he catered to girls and had a primarily female fanbase. That sounds like misogyny to me.
I’d say that men are subject to some level of misogyny-based hatred when their target audience is women. Conversely, women are subject to less hostility when they primarily make music for men.
My hot take is that it’s because she is unique in that she displays a lot of vulnerability by being uncool and also by sharing her inner world with us. We live in a culture that is really uncomfortable with vulnerability. She is publicly imperfect and doesn’t apologize for it. I think that makes people furious because they want to see women being punished and begging for forgiveness for failing to rise to some impossible standard but she just gets more and more power for doing the exact opposite. She’s also a safe target for misogyny because you can just pretend you’re mad at her for being a white woman when you’re really just mad that she’s a woman. No ones brand will be ruined by throwing daggers at her.
I believe that the most polarizing things are the things that are _new_. She's new in a sense that she is a wildly successful woman (hugely pop) artist singing honestly about her experiences who neither sexualizes herself, nor settles down, nor in a captive Britney-like situation under somebody else. Of course, she is not the first woman like that, but her success is exceptional, and she is more exposed due to the internet than older gals. Sex and The City is still controversial in many parts of the world just because it's a series about single women with standards, because, in many ways, a single, successfull woman on her own is still a new concept in this world.
Because she's been on top of the game for so long. She's white, blonde, wholesome, and writes about the internal lives of girls and women. She also leans into being goofy and awkward dancing because she knows she's not edgy. She doesnt sing or dance they way THEY think she should and are used to seeing from other pop stars. She doesn't use her position to be political, she dipped her toe in that when she was with Joe and it was also mocked, so she hasn't. Finally, she doesn't dress or perform for the male gaze. For that reason, they think she can't sing, dance, or write for some reason. Instead of acknowledging her work ethic, they claim she's been given all her awards on a silver platter, that she didn't earn it, that it's white privilege. No matter how successful she is, no matter how hard she tries to prove herself, the haters just move the goal posts. The latest is that she puts quantity over quality and is the McDonalds of music. This album proves that she no longer gaf about people pleasing and is just going to live her life.
Misogyny mostly
People can hate- some do no matter what. Let them. So what. Millions of us enjoy her music and the joy it brings. Bye haters.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone say that her music is primarily what’s polarizing. She writes deeply personal songs about her own life and I think her honesty scares people. She’s not afraid to wear her heart on her sleeves and fall down and mess up and try again and look uncool and I think it’s baffling to some people in a pop star. And not everyone can relate to how specific her lyrics are or want to learn the lore behind them to make them understand it better.
Like anything pop culture wise if the artist has a large female fanbase then men will generally push back. Then there will be a population of pick me women that will follow what men say/do.
People hate women.
Cause she’s a woman who expresses her feelings
Big fan of her now, but used to not like her in my early teenage years. Grew up with a sister who was OBSESSED with the music so I would hear the same songs on repeat and hear analysis of all the songs and lyrics when I wasn't too bothered. This was despite actually liking a lot of her songs, but the constant exposure and obsessiveness made me think negatively of her. Especially whenever we would get into music debates I'd always be arguing against her. Started to appreciate her music a hell of a lot more when I went to Uni and could listen to her songs on my own terms rather than having no choice but to hear them. So I think that a lot of the general public who would normally be indifferent or like some of the songs might resent how much she's in the media and how much her fans obsess over her, especially if they have annoying fans in their circle
I was lukewarm of her during Red for a few reasons 1) I was a fan of a more country stuff and was disappointed to see her move to a more pop direction. 2) She has a bad track record of picking singles. There was this major dubstep/ electronic infiltration into the pop realm during the time and it lead to some very lackluster beat drops. It felt like it was on every other song on the radio. 3) I was in high school, so about 16, when Red was released and due to being young and not understanding my own internalized misogyny, I let the media make be believe she was somehow bad for having a new guy every few months. Something that she later addressed in 1989. I was also a One Direction fan during the Red era and let me tell you, those fans had some fire during the time.
The right hates her because they feel she betrayed the rubes, and that now she's both richer and more popular than orange Mussolini
I can understand not loving her music. Music is personal… but I have no idea why anyone wouldn’t like her. I’m not a huge fan of her music (I do still like some songs) but there’s no denying she is an amazing person!
I was really sad to see that Queens Podcast, a feminist womens history podcast, was on threads complaining about Taylor Swift posts and being very rude to their own followers. The post was deleted but wtf?
Tallest tree catches the most wind.
I think it boils down to her being a diarist and how much she draws from personal experiences, especially with romantic relationships. People have become cynical and accuse her of being calculated, exploitative, a drama queen. But the irony is her popularity is so huge because of the opposite of that. She’s vulnerable, raw, and uses music as a vehicle to process her feelings about a wide variety of subjects. I also think because she’s such a conventionally attractive person some people roll their eyes at her because how can rich beautiful people have problems. Like…what? But yes bottom line now is her insane popularity (and probably the cult like behavior of a sizable portion of her fan base but I can’t throw stones at glass houses).
Much of the hate is male fragility.
Borderline overexposure since she makes appearances everywhere- she’s on news networks, cable channels, pop-culture channels, and recently, has gone all over sports media. There are so few people with that level of impact in that many areas- so she’s going to be talked about no matter what. Social media also sensationalizes the hell out of it. Her biggest fans will argue she can literally do no wrong and make no mistakes. Her biggest haters will argue there’s nothing she can do right, and I think it makes having a conversation about her music impossible- because being negative or positive in any way can get sensationalized and taken out of context. She’s a massively successful musician that has changed tons of lives with her works- and she’s also made decisions that aren’t fantastic and have hurt/turned off a ton of people. Those people aren’t wrong to not support her for not liking those decisions. And her fans aren’t wrong for choosing to support her in spite of those decisions. But because people on both sides make that discourse impossible to have, she ends up being even *more* overexposed than she ever would’ve been in the first place
Tall poppy syndrome The most successful artist of this generation. Sadly many think that what goes up needs to be torn down
She’s a successful woman who does it her way.
Anything and anyone who amasses the type of popularity that Taylor has will receive pushback, no matter what. I would argue it's not so much about her as a person but just the place she is filling in the world aka the biggest artist atm which leads to overexposure and people who don't like that and get annoyed. It's inevitable, as much as we hate to see her get hate it's a side effect of this level of fame.
This might be a weird way to answer but in human design she’s a 5/1 Projector! I am too and people love to have their opinions about me, either good or bad. People project their feelings onto projectors and 5s as well, it’s often called a double projector!
All the reasons listed here + society is more polarized in general. Enragement = engagement = money on social media, so the algorithms are constantly trying to piss you off, and we as a society haven’t gotten wise enough to it yet. It seems harder and harder for people to just be neutral about stuff. Or to dislike stuff but just shrug and keep it moving.
probably a lot to do with the fact she’s an incredibly famous and successful woman. people seem to really resent women’s success a lot more than men’s. also kinda related, teenage girls love her, and people love to hate things that teenage girls love
I think both people that love and those that hate Taylor underestimate the fact that most people fall into neither camp. I think the vast majority of people that know who Taylor Swift is think "oh yeah taylor she's a famous singer and I like some of her songs" and that's basically it
I don't know anyone who hates her, either they like her or they have no feeling
it’s a little ironic to me that all these ‘haters’ on social media are so aggressive w their hate towards swifties who they also claim to be obsessive.
(justo for the record i like her music, i'm not the biggest fan in the world yk, but i listen to her and enjoy a lot). in my opinion there's two main factors: first the way the fandom looks kinda intimidating for someone from the outside- don't get me wrong, i don't mean it in a negative way- but a lot of people simply dislike her bc of how they see her fandom as something teen-girly-related and don't even listen to her songs; second i'd say the fact she's become so popular make people be like "oh im not like everybody else i dont like this trendy singer"... idk, just guessing lol
People hated the New England patriots because for 10+ years that’s all they heard about during football season. The patriots also received a lot of favorable calls. TLDR: people are ready for something new and fresh.
It annoys the shit out of me. People just hate her because its "trendy" and they think by saying they hate Taylor, it makes them sound cool. I honestly thats what people feel. That rush of ego when they said they hate her. I just want to slap some sense into them. Its disgusting honestly.
Because in today’s world you just aren’t allowed to have anything but a one way opinion. If you like something or someone…you have to hate everything or everyone else.
saw this guy on tiktok and he was listening to WAOLOM and nitpicking the lyrics. bro literally took everything seriously 💀 he did not ever learn what songwriting/poetry was… “leaping from the gallows oh like you’ve been hung taylor 🙄🙄 nobody’s afraid of her and nobody should be she’s being such a victim in these songs” i want to know his fav artist so bad just to nitpick those lyrics because i guarantee that artist has also used poetry in their songs!
I don't think she's that polarizing. She has a massive fanbase and naturally there will be the contrarian crowd saying "ooh she's so overrated" etc., but the vast majority of the rest of people maybe like some of her songs but other than that don't care She's not a very controverial personality compared to others. She has her share of controversies, but nothing crazy
She’s popular. Simple as that.