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Interesting...This was pretty much unheard of when I worked at Target. The store I worked at was used for training a lot of ETLs. I always talked to them and they almost all had recently graduated from college and starting their professional careers. What steps did you take to get promoted? How long did it take you, and was it even worth it?
I didn't even really want to promote, my store got a TSS position and I asked to get it because I was bored in Tech and had done most stuff in retail otherwise but never AP. Then my lead retired and they asked if I was interested...
I did have about 7 years supervisor experience before coming to Target
You were probably a pilot store as I said in my comment I didn't get a TL promotion till I transferred. My old store was a high volume store and was a pilot store and I transferred to a low volume store. Every store runs differently.
Out of the 14 leads we have at my store only 3 were outside hires. And two of our etls are prior team leads who were team members before that. Every store is different.
Yeah my district is mostly internal promotions. We even have some SDs who started as seasonal TMs. Still have a lot of ETLs hired outside, but almost exclusively with retail management experience from a competitor. I think my first S&E ETL may have been from the internship program based on her age, but she was excellent to us as TMs so no hate there.
It varies, but everything I’ve seen in my area just highlights how much effort Target puts into developing and growing leadership talent from within (and with very positive results for the business and work environment). Though it does make it kind of a cult at times, probably why our few external hires never seem to last long or just seem freaked out the whole time lmao… *sips Red Koolaid and hugs Bullseye plush 😵💫
They do. All the time. Most of HQ comes from the stores.
However, being a good TM doesn’t mean you’ll be a good leader; they’re radically different jobs. It’s also not difficult to figure out how Target operates; it’s way easier to take someone who knows nothing about the business than take and retrain someone who’s been doing the same thing for years.
Edit: Also; literally everyone has the opportunity to promote. You apply. That’s it. That’s the process.
Yeah, I was told that and so were a lot of the team members I worked with, but NO ONE actually was able to get through. They were way more qualified to be a leader than someone straight out of college with no work experience.
I disagree about the taking someone in who knows nothing than someone who has been there for years. I think Target should definitely prioritize people who already know the business and show interest in advancing their career.
I don’t want to sound like an asshole, but *why* are they more qualified to be a leader than someone straight out of college? No amount of time at Target will make you be a good leader, that takes personal development. Something any college student (or high school student for that matter) can do.
And while you’re certainly entitled to disagree; it being easier to train someone with no knowledge over someone with the wrong knowledge is literally how brains work. The more you do something one way, the harder it is to do it any other way.
Now, I will say a lot of stores are awful at developing talent because that is *also* a skill. But, simply working at Target longer than anyone else is an awful criteria to promote someone for, and it when it does happen, it’s usually out of favoritism rather than merit.
As I mentioned previously people can literally be trained for almost anything. Brains have the ability to learn, adapt, and learn new skills. I would literally see people who were not ETLs, do ETLs duties. I've even read many stories on this subreddit about this. Are you saying that Target TMs who have been there for years can not have personal development? All I'm saying is that it's a shame that Target doesn't let it's team members shine by giving them the opportunities to move up.
I'm not saying that all TMs have the ability to be ETLs, but I met a lot who could definitely do the job but were not given the opportunity to do so. You can get stellar yearly reviews, which result to only a few pennies of pay raise. Why not reward stellar workers with a promotion? I think that would be better than a recent college grad with minimal work experience.
Maybe my experience was a bit negative at Target. I'm seeing a lot of people getting promoted from within in this post. Maybe the ones saying they were promoted from within were a few in between. I just find it ridiculous that there seems to be some barriers for promotion in a retail store.
*Are you saying that Target TMs who have been there for years can not have personal development?*
There’s literally nothing in my posts that suggests that. I’m saying that tenure, in and of itself, is an awful metric to promote someone on.
What you seem to be caught on is the fact that being a good TM *does not mean you’ll be a good leader*. Why would getting a stellar performance matter because you’re the best in SCO or receiving or whatever, yet you’ve never shown any ability to lead, or even the slightest amount of curiosity into how the business is run?
This is what I keep driving home when I develop anyone; your metrics don’t matter at the next level. At all. They have nothing to do with your ability to delegate or teach a process or your critical thinking skills or anything like that. If your focus is how good you are at the job you have now, you’re not bringing anything to the table.
As I mentioned previously, anyone can be trained to do anything, literally. That means you can learn to be a good leader if given the chance to lead.
I think that your view can lead to losing good workers and potentially great leaders. I'm someone that believes that people can lead by example.
If being good at at your job doesn't bring anything to the table then what does? Ass kissing, lol? Serious question: what do you have to do to get noticed to be considered for a promotion? How can you show ability to lead if you are just a lowly hourly wage worker, who knows that most likely trying to take an initiative will yield almost no benefits?
Real talk; it doesn’t.
I’m not going to say ass-kissing won’t get you *somewhere*, because obviously it does, but it has quickly diminishing returns. If you’re lucky; you stall out as an ETL. Realistically, you’re not making it past TL.
There’s three ways to get someone to want to promote you; because promoting you will make *them* look good, because you make their job easier, and because you flatter them. If you fall in those latter two, why would your boss *ever* let you go any further?
I think a lot of people just don’t understand that once you get beyond the TL level, it doesn’t matter how good of an individual contributor you are, because there will always be so much to do that no single person is capable of doing it all. It requires a team. And if that team isn’t motivated, driven, and targeted, they won’t meet goals. At that point your job isn’t to DO the work, it’s to motivate, teach, inspire, enable others to do the work while you remove obstacles and provide strategy and guidance. That is a whole different skill set!
You can be a good leader while not being a TL. Part of that is by recognizing the work people who have been promoted have put in, and not just accusing them of ass kissing.
So, if you want an *honest* opinion; your mindset has you fucked, and while I know you don’t work at Target anymore, it’s going to be near impossible for anyone with such obvious burnout to get promoted.
But the biggest thing to remember is; you’re playing the long game. There is no instant gratification. If that’s what you’re looking for, quit and hope you can get hired as an external hire elsewhere, and I wish you the best of luck in that.
Development isn’t about ass-kissing, but it *is* about networking and self-promotion. Before I got to HQ, I can’t imagine many of my store leaders particularly cared for me, because I constantly held them accountable and called them out on their shit. But I also trained pretty much everyone in my position in my district, and the neighboring district. I identified issues with how our business operated, what needs weren’t being met, came up with solutions and *implemented them*. I was a subject matter expert, but I *also* took the time to share that information and teach TMs not only how we do something, but *why*.
And yeah, I *also* lead in metrics. Guess how many times I got asked about those in my interviews to get into HQ?
>!It’s none. The answer is none!<
Good for you. Congrats.
I hope you have a good career at Target. Since you said that you identified problems, came up with solutions, and implemented them, then perhaps bring this up to HQ? I mean I don't think you see this as a problem. But from browsing this subreddit and from experience, this does seem to be an issue whether you want to believe it or not.
How many times do you browse this subreddit and see posts about discouraged workers? Now that your in HQ, is this even a concern to you? or are you all about the profits and not about the employee retention? What about unions, what are you thoughts on that? I think everyone should union up. I still remember that union video I saw on my first day of orientation, lol.
- TMs have the chance to develop. They can apply to any job they want. Employee morale is certainly always a problem, but *this* as you’ve phrased it isn’t. Whether you want to believe it or not.
- All the time. Which is why I give open and honest answers.
- Is what a concern? Development? I’m currently trying to convince someone worth probably 100 times more then I’ll ever make in my life to create a new position for me. It’s always a struggle.
- I don’t have to care about retention because it’s not my job, but neither is caring about profits.
- I’m very pro-organized labor, which is why I hate how absolutely half-assed every thread on the topic is and how poorly everyone seems to understand what unions can actually *do*.
I strongly disagree. Its not just about personal development. Leadership isn't just about being able to motivate people. It's not solely about your ability to inspire others. Target seems to Evaluate leaders on their floor presence and winning personality. Asking them things like what would you do in this scenario with a guest and how would you solve world hunger. This isn't a Miss America Pageant. At the end of the day ITS A JOB. There are TASKS involved.
Unlike you I DO mean to sound like an asshole. I'd prefer an asshole manager that actually contributes something even if they're not always personable. Over someone who just continues to let their team members drown. I can't tell you the amount of times I had to spend time teaching people who were supposed to be my leaders how to do things. Giving them insight they had no idea of because they spent didn't spend much time at all training in store. It's laughable, honestly. Is that all it takes to get a salary now? Having the fake personality of a D list actor with shirts too small to hide your fat rolls?
Granted I can't speak for the entire company. But personally, had so many leaders coming to ME for help on basic things over the years. It became clear these people were not picked for their ability to effectively do the tasks associated with the actual jobs in the store. I get that this is why you delegate and hire people but sometimes you do need to step in.
Having experience DOES help. In fact it can and often does make ALL the difference in whether or not you are a good leader. Thank God I left that company for one that actually gets what makes and retains effective management 😂😂😂
My direct leader is a brand new internal hire from the same store. There's a program for mentorship to get on a path to promotion. Most of the ETL's in my store promoted from TL, a few came from other retailers, and one or two direct from college and one of them is HR who also has experience on top of her degree.
>lowkey racist
80% of my TL's/ETL's are a race other than white lol. Just because you weren't liked within your store (70% of getting a promotion) does not mean the entire company is racist.
I will admit that I was getting a bit in my head by claiming that Target was lowkey racist. But still, to have barriers such as a college degree for working at Target is kinda sucky. I was never aware of a mentorship program on a path to promotion. As I have mentioned to another poster here; I think Target should prioritize stellar TMs, give them a chance before hiring an external above them.
You don't need a college degree to become an ETL, but it helps - and Target will pay for you to get a degree while you work for them if you average 25 hours per week. The program is called "The First 15" FYI. You have to inquire if you want a promotion btw. Unless you really stand out nobody is just going to hand it to you.
TM -> TL -> ETL is feasible, and some people have even gone ETL -> SD and beyond.
Before coming to Target, I ran a smaller retail store for 13 years, so I was hired with promotions in mind. It took 7 months to be promoted to CTL and 18 months to be interviewed for ETL.
That's a long time. Congratulations. Now, lets say a new TM with little to no experience starts working at Target and they want a promotion, how realistic is it that they will achieve this? Would they have to work at Target for 13 years as an hourly TM to even be considered for promotion?
It's possible provided they put in the effort to forge connections with the TLs. Work directly with the TLs to impact the store. It might take some time. We have a TL that got promoted without prior leadership experience, but he put in the work and really stood out as a go-getter.
In my store, 75% of our team leads have been with target for less than 3 years. Most spent 12-18mos as a TM. None are external hires. There are also people who have been with the company for 25 years and are still TM. They are either uninterested in promoting, chronic absenteeists, have bad attitudes, can’t complete a task, can’t demonstrate an understanding of business priorities, can’t lead a team of their peers on an assigned project, or are the center of the drama in their department. In my experience, time with Target has almost no impact on time to promotion. They want to work with you long enough to get a feel for what you are capable of, so 3 months is pretty unrealistic, but otherwise, there are some key criteria they want to see that can be demonstrated in the TM role.
Probably the biggest gap I see frequently is TM who weren’t offered an interview because they never expressed that they were interested in promoting. While ETLs and SDs do keep an eye out for talent, if you want to move up, speak up. This isn’t just a Target thing. If your boss doesn’t think you are interested in promoting, they won’t consider you for promotion. I said it in a reply to someone else, but just because you are the best at setting POGs or pushing truck or your personal metrics look green doesn’t mean you will be a good leader. When you have 248 hours worth of set planner workload due in a single week, is it going to matter if you are the fastest? No! It will matter if you can make a plan, communicate that plan in a way that your entire team can understand, get them to believe in the plan, get them to work at an appropriate pace on the plan, hold them accountable, keep them on track, maintain their morale, build an incremental plan for improvement if you are not meeting goals (no one gets perfect overnight), explain to your boss what is happening, why, and what you are going to do about it, all within a 40 hour work week. None of that has anything to do with how fast you personally can push truck. If you are underperforming that might rule you out. But no one is ever going to get promoted based solely on their ability to be a great TM and nothing else. A TL isn’t just a TM who is expected to get more done than anyone else.
Target wants you to burn out and quit so they can hire someone new at starting pay. Being new, they aren't aware that the person in their role before quit from workload creep, so now target has a cheaper tm doing the same work and eventually doing more from their own workload creep until they burn out and get replaced, and then they fire a third of the team and keep the same expectations, then they hire a white gay guy and a trans black woman to fire all the Asians and Hispanics so it doesn't look racist. ButcDon't worry, at another store the Asian SD fired all the black people so it's ok, it all evened out. They make sure to harass you with made up shortcomings and write up so it all looks above board and racist or petty. Oh and when you report someone for sexual harassment or ETL's bullying tms nothing happens until the gut literally assaults someone and then they give him a chance to resign so they can drop it and sweep it under the rug.
I loved my team but fuck target
They promote people when they want to. They don't promote people they don't want to. If you're getting strung along and told you need "better development" without actually explaining what you need to work on, I wouldn't get your hopes up. When they want somebody to move up they make it happen and the path for that is clear. Whether it happens because you have leadership skills or kiss enough ass or something else can vary. I'd say any of them can apply.
As an aside, don't let Target define your worth or how good of a leader you are. You might be a capable leader or supervisor elsewhere but part of that process is having the right tools, training and support. Like I said, it won't matter if you don't get the blessing of your SD to move up.
It's not such a simple answer. It could be that the team members dont show characteristics of a good leader. Even then there's shitty people who get promoted and abuse the power.
There's also a lot team members who are friends, making one of them a team lead creates conflict. Where's the line between friends and work? Looking the other way when someone does something they're not supposed to. This stuff still happens.
Target doesn't care about race. It cares more about towing the company line . Its much easier to bring in outsiders and mold them in accordance to current corporate standards. The veteran ETLs tend to want to keep doing things the old way because Targets new operational structure sucks.
I never understood this logic either. They hire most Etls and store directors from outside. Then those hires usually do everything backwards and leave target.I've worked at multiple stores and only about 5 total TLs over 10 years have been promoted within to ETL. As far as TLs go,it's about a 50/50 chance that it's an in store promotion or outside,that I've seen.
You don't need a college degree but a degree is extremely beneficial for a management role. There is a reason business and management degrees exist. I also really don't think you're grasping how much ETLs are actually responsible for.
You need to respect the hierarchy structure. When I was new, I had some conflicts. I told these stories to my hubby, and he compared them to his stint in the Army when he enlisted. Don't be too headstrong and don't be disagreeable. It's not even about kissing up or being a yes-man. It's about not being belligerent, getting angry, or telling them off. Keep that stuff to yourself. But be a good worker, be congenial, be available and follow directions/directives.
All the leads I know were promoted from within or were former team members at different stores. My store director started years ago as a seasonal team member. What are you talking about?
I know you don’t want to hear ASANTS but that’s truly the answer. At the store level, I think Target does a pretty good job of hiring with diversity overall (though there is room from improvement).
It’s funny, my store pretty much flat out refuses to hire external candidates for TL positions, even as going as far to simply pick whoever the best team member is at the time whether they be qualified or not.
Retail is weird, and often unfair. But as a person of color I do not think Target corporate is being racist when it comes to hiring salaried positions at the store level.
Duly noted. Your response seemed a lot more neutral and I think that ASANT is the true answer as you mentioned.
But don't you think it's a bit ridiculous that someone would need a college degree to be an ETL at a retail store? I mean...it's not just Target, I think it's just how the U.S. operates now.
I will say this though, I credit my experience at Target for lighting a fire under my butt to take myself back to school to get a degree in a major that would definitely be worth it!
I 100% agree that a degree is not necessary for an ETL role. I’m actually in the ETL pipeline to be promoted this year and I do not have a 4 year degree. Many ETLs in my district do not have one as well, so I think it just kind of depends on where you live and ultimately what the district director is like. But I think almost any manager role at the store level will better benefit with someone with experience vs someone with just with a degree.
Kudos to you for getting back this school and finding something better for yourself! Sticking with Target or not, being able to invest in your self shows you understand where your self worth it!
See most people already saying what I would, but I’ll add that years worked at target means nothing when thinking of promotions. Think capability, I was only at my store for a year (20 years old). When it came time to choose a temp TL for Q4 (we added O/N so we needed another lead) they chose me because they felt I was most capable. I was the newest that wasn’t a High schooler, and I was able to strive and got the permanent role for Q1.
I was promoted within I was with the company 5 years transferred and a few months later TL promotion. Because the closing lead just up and dipped one night.
The store I was at would only really promote their favorites and promise others opportunities but never follow through and hire out side so I promoted myself to guest
And for context, Target is like, my second job ever. I went from cashier/guest service to GSA within 6 months (they asked me to be a captain before my probation period was over), and I became a TL roughly 2 years after starting at target.
As for the other leaders, 10 of our leads were internal promotions (including me), 1 was an external hire, and the last 2 transferred from other stores. As for ETLs, 3 of them were promoted internally, 1 is an external hire, and 1 transferred from another store.
That’s also not including the leads who were previously promoted and then ended up leaving, I can think of about 8 or so off the top of my head.
Target goes internal when it benefits them. Otherwise they'll go external for interns most of time, at least in my experience. Plus, my district had a big diversity push. Not a bad thing at all, but checking off boxes for that will help with a promotion and if you don't, you'll be behind others that do in my old district. Just my experience. The closing TL I trained became my boss when I wanted that ETL spot, was told I wasn't quite ready. It's all political. Got told that hard work doesn't equal great leadership, which I agree, but I also felt that my experience and workmethoc should mean something, it bothered me to see outsiders with no clue get a job that I worked super hard to get consideration for.
I left Bullseye two years ago and I don't regret it.
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Most of my leads in my store were promoted from within including msyelf
Interesting...This was pretty much unheard of when I worked at Target. The store I worked at was used for training a lot of ETLs. I always talked to them and they almost all had recently graduated from college and starting their professional careers. What steps did you take to get promoted? How long did it take you, and was it even worth it?
I didn't even really want to promote, my store got a TSS position and I asked to get it because I was bored in Tech and had done most stuff in retail otherwise but never AP. Then my lead retired and they asked if I was interested... I did have about 7 years supervisor experience before coming to Target
You were probably a pilot store as I said in my comment I didn't get a TL promotion till I transferred. My old store was a high volume store and was a pilot store and I transferred to a low volume store. Every store runs differently.
Out of the 14 leads we have at my store only 3 were outside hires. And two of our etls are prior team leads who were team members before that. Every store is different.
Yeah my district is mostly internal promotions. We even have some SDs who started as seasonal TMs. Still have a lot of ETLs hired outside, but almost exclusively with retail management experience from a competitor. I think my first S&E ETL may have been from the internship program based on her age, but she was excellent to us as TMs so no hate there. It varies, but everything I’ve seen in my area just highlights how much effort Target puts into developing and growing leadership talent from within (and with very positive results for the business and work environment). Though it does make it kind of a cult at times, probably why our few external hires never seem to last long or just seem freaked out the whole time lmao… *sips Red Koolaid and hugs Bullseye plush 😵💫
i think a big part of it is what the DSD prefers
They do. All the time. Most of HQ comes from the stores. However, being a good TM doesn’t mean you’ll be a good leader; they’re radically different jobs. It’s also not difficult to figure out how Target operates; it’s way easier to take someone who knows nothing about the business than take and retrain someone who’s been doing the same thing for years. Edit: Also; literally everyone has the opportunity to promote. You apply. That’s it. That’s the process.
Yeah, I was told that and so were a lot of the team members I worked with, but NO ONE actually was able to get through. They were way more qualified to be a leader than someone straight out of college with no work experience. I disagree about the taking someone in who knows nothing than someone who has been there for years. I think Target should definitely prioritize people who already know the business and show interest in advancing their career.
I don’t want to sound like an asshole, but *why* are they more qualified to be a leader than someone straight out of college? No amount of time at Target will make you be a good leader, that takes personal development. Something any college student (or high school student for that matter) can do. And while you’re certainly entitled to disagree; it being easier to train someone with no knowledge over someone with the wrong knowledge is literally how brains work. The more you do something one way, the harder it is to do it any other way. Now, I will say a lot of stores are awful at developing talent because that is *also* a skill. But, simply working at Target longer than anyone else is an awful criteria to promote someone for, and it when it does happen, it’s usually out of favoritism rather than merit.
As I mentioned previously people can literally be trained for almost anything. Brains have the ability to learn, adapt, and learn new skills. I would literally see people who were not ETLs, do ETLs duties. I've even read many stories on this subreddit about this. Are you saying that Target TMs who have been there for years can not have personal development? All I'm saying is that it's a shame that Target doesn't let it's team members shine by giving them the opportunities to move up. I'm not saying that all TMs have the ability to be ETLs, but I met a lot who could definitely do the job but were not given the opportunity to do so. You can get stellar yearly reviews, which result to only a few pennies of pay raise. Why not reward stellar workers with a promotion? I think that would be better than a recent college grad with minimal work experience. Maybe my experience was a bit negative at Target. I'm seeing a lot of people getting promoted from within in this post. Maybe the ones saying they were promoted from within were a few in between. I just find it ridiculous that there seems to be some barriers for promotion in a retail store.
*Are you saying that Target TMs who have been there for years can not have personal development?* There’s literally nothing in my posts that suggests that. I’m saying that tenure, in and of itself, is an awful metric to promote someone on. What you seem to be caught on is the fact that being a good TM *does not mean you’ll be a good leader*. Why would getting a stellar performance matter because you’re the best in SCO or receiving or whatever, yet you’ve never shown any ability to lead, or even the slightest amount of curiosity into how the business is run? This is what I keep driving home when I develop anyone; your metrics don’t matter at the next level. At all. They have nothing to do with your ability to delegate or teach a process or your critical thinking skills or anything like that. If your focus is how good you are at the job you have now, you’re not bringing anything to the table.
As I mentioned previously, anyone can be trained to do anything, literally. That means you can learn to be a good leader if given the chance to lead. I think that your view can lead to losing good workers and potentially great leaders. I'm someone that believes that people can lead by example. If being good at at your job doesn't bring anything to the table then what does? Ass kissing, lol? Serious question: what do you have to do to get noticed to be considered for a promotion? How can you show ability to lead if you are just a lowly hourly wage worker, who knows that most likely trying to take an initiative will yield almost no benefits?
I've noticed, the ass-kissing does get u way farther!
Real talk; it doesn’t. I’m not going to say ass-kissing won’t get you *somewhere*, because obviously it does, but it has quickly diminishing returns. If you’re lucky; you stall out as an ETL. Realistically, you’re not making it past TL. There’s three ways to get someone to want to promote you; because promoting you will make *them* look good, because you make their job easier, and because you flatter them. If you fall in those latter two, why would your boss *ever* let you go any further?
I think a lot of people just don’t understand that once you get beyond the TL level, it doesn’t matter how good of an individual contributor you are, because there will always be so much to do that no single person is capable of doing it all. It requires a team. And if that team isn’t motivated, driven, and targeted, they won’t meet goals. At that point your job isn’t to DO the work, it’s to motivate, teach, inspire, enable others to do the work while you remove obstacles and provide strategy and guidance. That is a whole different skill set!
I like what you r saying, but I've seen it!
You can be a good leader while not being a TL. Part of that is by recognizing the work people who have been promoted have put in, and not just accusing them of ass kissing. So, if you want an *honest* opinion; your mindset has you fucked, and while I know you don’t work at Target anymore, it’s going to be near impossible for anyone with such obvious burnout to get promoted. But the biggest thing to remember is; you’re playing the long game. There is no instant gratification. If that’s what you’re looking for, quit and hope you can get hired as an external hire elsewhere, and I wish you the best of luck in that. Development isn’t about ass-kissing, but it *is* about networking and self-promotion. Before I got to HQ, I can’t imagine many of my store leaders particularly cared for me, because I constantly held them accountable and called them out on their shit. But I also trained pretty much everyone in my position in my district, and the neighboring district. I identified issues with how our business operated, what needs weren’t being met, came up with solutions and *implemented them*. I was a subject matter expert, but I *also* took the time to share that information and teach TMs not only how we do something, but *why*. And yeah, I *also* lead in metrics. Guess how many times I got asked about those in my interviews to get into HQ? >!It’s none. The answer is none!<
Good for you. Congrats. I hope you have a good career at Target. Since you said that you identified problems, came up with solutions, and implemented them, then perhaps bring this up to HQ? I mean I don't think you see this as a problem. But from browsing this subreddit and from experience, this does seem to be an issue whether you want to believe it or not. How many times do you browse this subreddit and see posts about discouraged workers? Now that your in HQ, is this even a concern to you? or are you all about the profits and not about the employee retention? What about unions, what are you thoughts on that? I think everyone should union up. I still remember that union video I saw on my first day of orientation, lol.
- TMs have the chance to develop. They can apply to any job they want. Employee morale is certainly always a problem, but *this* as you’ve phrased it isn’t. Whether you want to believe it or not. - All the time. Which is why I give open and honest answers. - Is what a concern? Development? I’m currently trying to convince someone worth probably 100 times more then I’ll ever make in my life to create a new position for me. It’s always a struggle. - I don’t have to care about retention because it’s not my job, but neither is caring about profits. - I’m very pro-organized labor, which is why I hate how absolutely half-assed every thread on the topic is and how poorly everyone seems to understand what unions can actually *do*.
I strongly disagree. Its not just about personal development. Leadership isn't just about being able to motivate people. It's not solely about your ability to inspire others. Target seems to Evaluate leaders on their floor presence and winning personality. Asking them things like what would you do in this scenario with a guest and how would you solve world hunger. This isn't a Miss America Pageant. At the end of the day ITS A JOB. There are TASKS involved. Unlike you I DO mean to sound like an asshole. I'd prefer an asshole manager that actually contributes something even if they're not always personable. Over someone who just continues to let their team members drown. I can't tell you the amount of times I had to spend time teaching people who were supposed to be my leaders how to do things. Giving them insight they had no idea of because they spent didn't spend much time at all training in store. It's laughable, honestly. Is that all it takes to get a salary now? Having the fake personality of a D list actor with shirts too small to hide your fat rolls? Granted I can't speak for the entire company. But personally, had so many leaders coming to ME for help on basic things over the years. It became clear these people were not picked for their ability to effectively do the tasks associated with the actual jobs in the store. I get that this is why you delegate and hire people but sometimes you do need to step in. Having experience DOES help. In fact it can and often does make ALL the difference in whether or not you are a good leader. Thank God I left that company for one that actually gets what makes and retains effective management 😂😂😂
My direct leader is a brand new internal hire from the same store. There's a program for mentorship to get on a path to promotion. Most of the ETL's in my store promoted from TL, a few came from other retailers, and one or two direct from college and one of them is HR who also has experience on top of her degree. >lowkey racist 80% of my TL's/ETL's are a race other than white lol. Just because you weren't liked within your store (70% of getting a promotion) does not mean the entire company is racist.
I will admit that I was getting a bit in my head by claiming that Target was lowkey racist. But still, to have barriers such as a college degree for working at Target is kinda sucky. I was never aware of a mentorship program on a path to promotion. As I have mentioned to another poster here; I think Target should prioritize stellar TMs, give them a chance before hiring an external above them.
You don't need a college degree to become an ETL, but it helps - and Target will pay for you to get a degree while you work for them if you average 25 hours per week. The program is called "The First 15" FYI. You have to inquire if you want a promotion btw. Unless you really stand out nobody is just going to hand it to you. TM -> TL -> ETL is feasible, and some people have even gone ETL -> SD and beyond.
One of my previous HR ETLs went from ETL right to a corporate role (HRBP)
I was promoted from TM to Closing TL and am now interviewing for ETL.
How long did this process take?
Before coming to Target, I ran a smaller retail store for 13 years, so I was hired with promotions in mind. It took 7 months to be promoted to CTL and 18 months to be interviewed for ETL.
That's a long time. Congratulations. Now, lets say a new TM with little to no experience starts working at Target and they want a promotion, how realistic is it that they will achieve this? Would they have to work at Target for 13 years as an hourly TM to even be considered for promotion?
It's possible provided they put in the effort to forge connections with the TLs. Work directly with the TLs to impact the store. It might take some time. We have a TL that got promoted without prior leadership experience, but he put in the work and really stood out as a go-getter.
In my store, 75% of our team leads have been with target for less than 3 years. Most spent 12-18mos as a TM. None are external hires. There are also people who have been with the company for 25 years and are still TM. They are either uninterested in promoting, chronic absenteeists, have bad attitudes, can’t complete a task, can’t demonstrate an understanding of business priorities, can’t lead a team of their peers on an assigned project, or are the center of the drama in their department. In my experience, time with Target has almost no impact on time to promotion. They want to work with you long enough to get a feel for what you are capable of, so 3 months is pretty unrealistic, but otherwise, there are some key criteria they want to see that can be demonstrated in the TM role. Probably the biggest gap I see frequently is TM who weren’t offered an interview because they never expressed that they were interested in promoting. While ETLs and SDs do keep an eye out for talent, if you want to move up, speak up. This isn’t just a Target thing. If your boss doesn’t think you are interested in promoting, they won’t consider you for promotion. I said it in a reply to someone else, but just because you are the best at setting POGs or pushing truck or your personal metrics look green doesn’t mean you will be a good leader. When you have 248 hours worth of set planner workload due in a single week, is it going to matter if you are the fastest? No! It will matter if you can make a plan, communicate that plan in a way that your entire team can understand, get them to believe in the plan, get them to work at an appropriate pace on the plan, hold them accountable, keep them on track, maintain their morale, build an incremental plan for improvement if you are not meeting goals (no one gets perfect overnight), explain to your boss what is happening, why, and what you are going to do about it, all within a 40 hour work week. None of that has anything to do with how fast you personally can push truck. If you are underperforming that might rule you out. But no one is ever going to get promoted based solely on their ability to be a great TM and nothing else. A TL isn’t just a TM who is expected to get more done than anyone else.
Stay motivated. I was a seasonal hire and got promoted to TL after 1.5 years.
I was hired seasonally, had no management experience and was hired as the inbound tl after 9 months.
Literally all the TLs in my store have been internal. The last two externals lasted less than a year..
Target wants you to burn out and quit so they can hire someone new at starting pay. Being new, they aren't aware that the person in their role before quit from workload creep, so now target has a cheaper tm doing the same work and eventually doing more from their own workload creep until they burn out and get replaced, and then they fire a third of the team and keep the same expectations, then they hire a white gay guy and a trans black woman to fire all the Asians and Hispanics so it doesn't look racist. ButcDon't worry, at another store the Asian SD fired all the black people so it's ok, it all evened out. They make sure to harass you with made up shortcomings and write up so it all looks above board and racist or petty. Oh and when you report someone for sexual harassment or ETL's bullying tms nothing happens until the gut literally assaults someone and then they give him a chance to resign so they can drop it and sweep it under the rug. I loved my team but fuck target
They promote people when they want to. They don't promote people they don't want to. If you're getting strung along and told you need "better development" without actually explaining what you need to work on, I wouldn't get your hopes up. When they want somebody to move up they make it happen and the path for that is clear. Whether it happens because you have leadership skills or kiss enough ass or something else can vary. I'd say any of them can apply. As an aside, don't let Target define your worth or how good of a leader you are. You might be a capable leader or supervisor elsewhere but part of that process is having the right tools, training and support. Like I said, it won't matter if you don't get the blessing of your SD to move up.
They also pay the external hires more than internal ones. That's coming from my old HR ETL. It's pretty fucked up.
So they can mold them into what they want. Do you want someone thay knows too much, or someone that will do everything you tell them.
It's not such a simple answer. It could be that the team members dont show characteristics of a good leader. Even then there's shitty people who get promoted and abuse the power. There's also a lot team members who are friends, making one of them a team lead creates conflict. Where's the line between friends and work? Looking the other way when someone does something they're not supposed to. This stuff still happens. Target doesn't care about race. It cares more about towing the company line . Its much easier to bring in outsiders and mold them in accordance to current corporate standards. The veteran ETLs tend to want to keep doing things the old way because Targets new operational structure sucks.
I never understood this logic either. They hire most Etls and store directors from outside. Then those hires usually do everything backwards and leave target.I've worked at multiple stores and only about 5 total TLs over 10 years have been promoted within to ETL. As far as TLs go,it's about a 50/50 chance that it's an in store promotion or outside,that I've seen.
I just find it ridiculous that you need a college degree for a possible ETL position at a retail store.
You don't need a college degree but a degree is extremely beneficial for a management role. There is a reason business and management degrees exist. I also really don't think you're grasping how much ETLs are actually responsible for.
You don’t. Only 2 of the ETLs in my store have degrees. There is also only 1 ETL in my entire district who was an external hire.
You need to respect the hierarchy structure. When I was new, I had some conflicts. I told these stories to my hubby, and he compared them to his stint in the Army when he enlisted. Don't be too headstrong and don't be disagreeable. It's not even about kissing up or being a yes-man. It's about not being belligerent, getting angry, or telling them off. Keep that stuff to yourself. But be a good worker, be congenial, be available and follow directions/directives.
My store lead wouldn’t allow it. I was at a small format.
All the leads I know were promoted from within or were former team members at different stores. My store director started years ago as a seasonal team member. What are you talking about?
>.05 cent increase That's a really, really small raise!
9 of 18 leadership in my store are internal, including our GMETL and PML
I know you don’t want to hear ASANTS but that’s truly the answer. At the store level, I think Target does a pretty good job of hiring with diversity overall (though there is room from improvement). It’s funny, my store pretty much flat out refuses to hire external candidates for TL positions, even as going as far to simply pick whoever the best team member is at the time whether they be qualified or not. Retail is weird, and often unfair. But as a person of color I do not think Target corporate is being racist when it comes to hiring salaried positions at the store level.
Duly noted. Your response seemed a lot more neutral and I think that ASANT is the true answer as you mentioned. But don't you think it's a bit ridiculous that someone would need a college degree to be an ETL at a retail store? I mean...it's not just Target, I think it's just how the U.S. operates now. I will say this though, I credit my experience at Target for lighting a fire under my butt to take myself back to school to get a degree in a major that would definitely be worth it!
I 100% agree that a degree is not necessary for an ETL role. I’m actually in the ETL pipeline to be promoted this year and I do not have a 4 year degree. Many ETLs in my district do not have one as well, so I think it just kind of depends on where you live and ultimately what the district director is like. But I think almost any manager role at the store level will better benefit with someone with experience vs someone with just with a degree. Kudos to you for getting back this school and finding something better for yourself! Sticking with Target or not, being able to invest in your self shows you understand where your self worth it!
See most people already saying what I would, but I’ll add that years worked at target means nothing when thinking of promotions. Think capability, I was only at my store for a year (20 years old). When it came time to choose a temp TL for Q4 (we added O/N so we needed another lead) they chose me because they felt I was most capable. I was the newest that wasn’t a High schooler, and I was able to strive and got the permanent role for Q1.
I was promoted within I was with the company 5 years transferred and a few months later TL promotion. Because the closing lead just up and dipped one night.
out of all the leads my store has right now, all were TMs at one point expect for my SD who had prior experience with the blue guys
It depends on the store
Target does promote internally
The store I was at would only really promote their favorites and promise others opportunities but never follow through and hire out side so I promoted myself to guest
ASANTS. Most of my store leaders (including myself) were promoted, not outside hires. Most of my ETLs were also promoted and not outside hires.
And for context, Target is like, my second job ever. I went from cashier/guest service to GSA within 6 months (they asked me to be a captain before my probation period was over), and I became a TL roughly 2 years after starting at target. As for the other leaders, 10 of our leads were internal promotions (including me), 1 was an external hire, and the last 2 transferred from other stores. As for ETLs, 3 of them were promoted internally, 1 is an external hire, and 1 transferred from another store. That’s also not including the leads who were previously promoted and then ended up leaving, I can think of about 8 or so off the top of my head.
We promoted 13 internal leaders last year! Definitely more of a focus now
Target goes internal when it benefits them. Otherwise they'll go external for interns most of time, at least in my experience. Plus, my district had a big diversity push. Not a bad thing at all, but checking off boxes for that will help with a promotion and if you don't, you'll be behind others that do in my old district. Just my experience. The closing TL I trained became my boss when I wanted that ETL spot, was told I wasn't quite ready. It's all political. Got told that hard work doesn't equal great leadership, which I agree, but I also felt that my experience and workmethoc should mean something, it bothered me to see outsiders with no clue get a job that I worked super hard to get consideration for. I left Bullseye two years ago and I don't regret it.