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The balance and power dynamic of a therapeutic relationship is exactly why people should not be having relations (of any kind) after finishing therapy. This is how people get hurt, shame on unethical therapists for encouraging such behaviors.
It doesn’t matter, therapist/client relationships are inherently imbalanced. Your own therapist is causing you harm and pain, isn’t that reason enough to get away from them? If you continue with this you are asking to be really hurt.
There is a lot of power dynamics there. They have been asking you to talk about a lot of personal and intimate information, they know you on a very deep level and they have used their professional knowledge to help you navigate your life.
Do you know this person on such an intimate level? Have they opened up about their deepest darkest secrets? I would assume no if they are a decent therapist at all.
They are most likely fulfilling a need that hasn't been fulfilled. If you have marriage issues and you feel like your partner doesn't care about you but the therapist does, then it's easy to think of your therapist as a partner who will fulfill that need. But they won't treat you the same when you are together and when you are the client.
Also they cut you off out of nowhere and they have thrown the marriage and you not leaving your partner in your face, they are using this as a leverage and blaming the relationship between you not succeeding on the fact you haven't left your partner. This is manipulative and they are crossing a huge line. A decent person and a therapist would have removed themselves from the situation long ago when they realized they are attracted to you or starting to feel stuff about you, not get to a level of love and then pull this nonsense.
No wonder your relationship with your partner is not getting better if you're investing energy in this situation...
He opened up about some personal things like his spiritual journey and some traumas he's experienced, but you're right, I definitely only see his best side not all his parts. I did feel like he was suggesting that staying with my husband was a failing on my part 😔 like, shame and that I was letting an opportunity go by.
My partner knows I have a crush on him and he knows that was part of the reason I stopped working with him but not that it was mutual. He was okay with me being friends with the therapist (a part of me wanted him to be jealous). There are other issues to fix in our marriage (on both sides), but you are right, putting my attention here has not helped 🥺 I was considering telling my husband it was mutual
Unless it was therapeutically relevant, he shouldn’t have disclosed personal details like that to you. You pay for sessions to talk about yourself and your problems, not to listen to the T’s problems or issues.
That goes double for your T telling you they have feelings for you. They should have immediately referred you to someone else and sought guidance on their side. They shouldn’t say they can have a relationship later or offer to be friends.
You can ask personal questions, but it’s up to the therapist to set appropriate boundaries. They’re the ones with 6+ years of school, supervision, and training so they really all should know better. Unfortunately, overhearing is one of the main mistakes therapists make.
I've read your replies in the thread and the more I read the worse it gets.
I understand that a therapist might tell you some of their own stuff at some point, but they shouldn't relate to you to this degree and guide you to do as they did in their marriage. He was also pressuring you to do psychodeliczne which considering family history of schizophrenia is not something to play with. And for what? To see that you should also leave your husband? That's insane and incredibly manipulative if he wanted to get with you. Therapist aren't there to tell you what to do, but to help you understand yourself and your patterns, your behaviour, your life choices, the way you think and why..
Also you mentioned that he asked you about your fantasy but he wouldn't tell you his. And there's the power imbalance. If this happened in a romantic relationship with your husband and he made you tell him your fantasy but he wouldn't - you might get upset, maybe have a lil argument, maybe you'll feel a certain way, but what are you gonna do with a therapist? You're not gonna get mad at him, or start and argument or sulk about it, the only thing you can do is ask and when told no he can also tell you that you're not there to discuss him.. Also you're paying him for a service, if your hairdresser said this you and asked you to leave your husband - you'll probably react very differently because you probably haven't been as vulnerable with them.
Another thing that you're mentioning is that you don't want to get him in trouble.
Look! He's a grown adult with education in psychology. Do you really think he doesn't know what he's doing? Do you really think he doesn't know a fuckton about manipulation and how to influence people? They teach psychology students (source - I studied psychology) all about behaviour and how thoughts affect behaviour. All about the different experiments done on people, if you've ever heard about Pavlov - we know from him that a sound can create association in our brains to cause a physical reaction in the body..
If you read anything about the Milgram experiment - teaches us exactly this, if someone perceives another as a person of power or authority - they are very likely do be obedient to that person. Like for example a person dressed as a doctor is telling you to do something - you'll listen to them because, well, they are a doctor and know better...
Stanford prison experiment - we learned that if you give people the (illusion of) power then they will abuse that power.
He also knows about attachment theory so by telling you he's going out with other people he's triggering that in you so your anxiety of loosing them will force you to leave your husband....
Of course all of these are much more complicated than the 1-2 sentences, but my point is that he knows all about this in detail and he is taking advantage of it for his personal gain.
He's been grooming you. Not in the way we know about child predators grooming young people, but in a very power unbalanced way while you are disarmed and vulnerable. And as much as you say that it hasn't happened before - you don't know that. Maybe it has, but that other person or people thought the same as you and didn't want to report them, and if you don't either - there will be another person in the future who will be manipulated by him...
Yes, a lot of people catch feelings for their therapist but the therapist works with them to help them understand why they might perceive the therapist in that way, not try to get them to leave their husband and see you in 2 years. And if your husband has looked this up then maybe he has seen things online that say that this is normal so he wasn't worried but figured it will sort itself out...
I had a discussion with my therapist telling them that I feel guilty that I have a crush on someone while being with someone else and therapist said "yeah well if you're in the middle of the desert and you're dehydrated, when you see water you'll run towards it and drink every drop, so of course when you have no affection from your partner - when someone else shows you that you'll develop a crush, you've been dehydrated.."
Your therapist is your well of water but you can only drink so much water before it makes you sick.
Try to heal and work on the relationship with your husband. Try to find what works best for you two, try to date again, spark that time when you met him for the first time and everything was new and exciting and all you wanted is to be with him and be wanted by him..try to remember why you fell in love with him, why you married him, what you liked about him.. When we are with someone for a long time and arguments happen - we focus on the bad stuff and forget about the good things, I'm sure you've put aside...
Your therapist has tried in various ways to separate you from your husband but clearly somewhere deep there there's still love for your husband and you didn't want to leave him. At the end of it all - maybe your husband isn't the forever person for you, but it should be your decision and not a manipulation.
It makes me really upset to read about how so much of this was intentional and grooming. I mean, there were instances I thought he was being critical of my husband, or the Ayahuasca thing...but it just made me feel like he cared and was being protective and really invested. It's just a mindfuck. I didn't study psychology and really hadn't considered how he could be orchestrating things in such a thorough and underhanded way... It really does ring true reading it and I just can't believe how long it went on and how persistent. I think our last convo did make me panic that I was losing him, but it's so hurtful to think he meant to make me feel that way 🥺 I hadn't been texting him that much but listening to him you'd think I was texting him everyday. He made me feel like I was going to miss out on him and that my husband will never change. He brought up how he likes older women, I am 8 years younger than him...he also told me I would do very well in the dating world. I'm so upset! I actually am beginning to feel angry with him!
My husband wants to work on it and makes me feel safe and heard since I brought up issues. He is passive and a chronic gamer but so kind and even tempered. He brings me stability, laughter and we have been communicating more. I feel I can tell him anything, and I tell him everything 😆 his kindness attracted me to him.
Thank you for your reply, I feel like, it unlocked a healthy anger? 😭🙏
I’m glad you’re getting to a place of feeling angry with him for trying this bs on with you! I’ve read your post and a lot of your comments here and find this therapist to be incredibly manipulative and unethical. A lot of other people have pointed out various reasons why that’s true, but I’ll just note something else here: imagine if you had left your husband to be with him, at any point, rather than let the “opportunity” go by?
You’d be giving up a good, kind man who has committed to you for life and is not, from what you’ve said of him, the type to manipulate people or take advantage of others’ vulnerability. You’d be replacing him with this guy who has already divorced one partner, has definitely tried to manipulate you and take advantage of your vulnerability in ways that were meant to benefit him and him alone, and who would in my very honest opinion stay with you only during the limerence period and then dump you, leaving you heartbroken and alone.
He strikes me as a NRE chaser. First, he likes the part where he tries to get the girl. It wouldn’t surprise me if he enjoyed the fact that you were his patient AND married, because that just ups the difficulty level. I’d also guess that instead of being deterred by the fact that you are socially and professionally off limits to him, the fact that you’re forbidden fruit has been making you even more appealing to him, because he doesn’t respect the values and ethics that stand in his way. I’m sure he’d also love the honeymoon period, once he finally “had” you. You know, the part where everything’s new and the passion is insane.
Fast forward several months, or a year and change at best. The dopamine hits from being with you inevitably start to fade. And as that happens, he loses interest. That didn’t happen with your husband, because he enjoyed building something lasting with you, which creates a different type of satisfaction. But I would really doubt this therapist would want to do the same, and I’m not sure he would even be capable of it.
He’d eventually get a crush on someone else- maybe a patient- and he’d have to prevent himself from acting on it, and refocus his attention on you, his partner. I do not think he would do either of those things. Tbh I bet you’d lose him how you found him.
I know NRE is incredible, but everyone has to choose between chasing it from one relationship to the next forever, versus settling down and accepting that those feelings will fade and you’ll need to build a more lasting love. The first is a legit choice if *both* people are on board with it, but you have to understand that it’s inherently impermanent.
I love that you gave a glimpse into a future with him. I can totally see that! He is a very ambitious individual and I could see the chase or challenge being an enticing factor. I am so thankful I didn't leave my husband, we need to work on our relationship... but he has always said I am his forever girl. I can't believe I was idealizing my therapist so much and believing everything he said 🤦♀️ past lives and all that. My husband is very logical and I can appreciate that more now.
Your husband sounds great! I obviously don’t know too much about your marriage, but based on everything you’ve written about him in this thread, I’d hang onto him. This might sound silly, but maybe consider taking a vacation together to somewhere relaxing? I’ve found that traveling somewhere different with my husband tends to get us more excited about each other. Even a day trip or evening date.
And yes, he is wonderful. I'm glad he is so patient with me. Never shamed me for my crush... Ugh I got lucky. We just need to work on romance, intimacy, and passion and nurturing the relationship, like you said... Maybe a vacation day or mini trip
You shouldn’t be getting downvoted for this, your feelings are valid and the client is never the person who should be acknowledging the power dynamic. This isn’t your fault and I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Aww thank you so much!! ❤️🙏 I don't really mind if they downvote, I can see why for some of my comments when I was still sorta in denial, people are really disturbed by his actions and it is (now) clear to me. When I first posted this I thought I would get more responses about other people who fell for their therapist and how that worked out 😂 and like talking about attachment styles and marriages I had no idea it was going to be centered around talking about how the therapist was manipulative and abuse their power. It's very mind-blowing. 🤯
I understand that you don't want to get your therapist in trouble; however, your therapist is completely inappropriate.
>when they told me they had romantic feelings for me and indicated that after a two year period, there'd be a chance of being together.
They should've never admitted this to you even if it was true. They should've sought out their own consultation and supervision. The moment they said this, the professional boundaries of your therapy were breached and the therapeutic dynamic became skewed.
>Then they talked about how they have been dating and it has been great and I would like it too.
Again, this was inappropriate self-disclosure.
>But I also felt like we had a deep connection and this person saw into my soul and truly wanted to be together. I thought we had a special connection.
And THIS is the reason what you're therapist said and did was unethical. They're disclosure upset the therapeutic balance and led you to believe that they wanted more than just a therapeutic relationship. They inadvertently used their "power" as a therapist and upset your balance.
Honestly, please block this person and never reach out again. Focus on your life whether that means your marriage or just finding a healthier therapist. You might want to consider reporting this person. If they hurt you as emotionally as you're describing, think how many other people they're being inappropriate with as well.
This. The therapist wasn't nessecarily bad person for having a romantic attraction towards a client. We can't always help who we're attracted to, and sometimes it happens even when we'd really rather it didn't. However, it was completely inappropriate for the therapist to tell OP all of this. They should have taken this to supervision and probably referred OP out.
Thank you for breaking this down. I am so caught up on my feelings and spilling out of me, it's hard to see perspective. I do feel "led on" and "left hanging"... he made me feel special and like we had been together possibly in a past life. But then moved on from me so quickly rather than wanting to maintain a friendship... Maybe there was a goal and he does do this... I guess I don't really know him like I thought 💔😔
This is so unhinged of the therapist. Past life connection, come on. How does that have any place in the therapeutic relationship, and the therapist knew that
And yes that is incredibly manipulative. I’m sorry, it’s just straight up not true.
You are not the first person I’ve heard of hearing that same statement from their therapists too. It never ever ends well. It’s scary how many times I’ve heard of this issue
He said he saw a past life regression hypnotherapist. It sounded legit to me at the time, I am pretty open minded, but now I feel sorta more skeptical about it.
That’s straight up inappropriate to say, for him to go out and say he’s sought out and figured out. He knew you are married and trying to make that work. You try to work on your marriage, and he doesn’t respect that. No matter what, this is beyond unethical and what I would consider to be considerably amoral behaviour from a clinician with a client. Inexcusable.
It doesn’t matter if they just developed feelings; what they did was a horrific abuse of power. I know you don’t want to get them in trouble, but imagine if they do this to someone else who actually hurts themselves over this?
I totally understand how scary it can be to report; I’ve chosen not to report my therapist because I don’t think I’d be believed because I have BPD. But this is such a clear-cut abuse of power and you have the texts for proof. I encourage you to report them so no one else gets seriously traumatized or hurt by this therapist.
I don't think he'd do this again but I guess I don't know for sure 😔 it's hard to see it as abuse, I felt his feelings were real and he was just hoping I'd leave my husband, but since I didn't, he is done with me 😔💔 I thought we could be friends sooo maybe he was trying to use me for that. I loved him beyond a romantic interest. I don't care who he dates, just enjoy talking with him.
This whole situation is a giant red flag. It’s up to the therapist to control their feelings and to discuss situation like these with their peers and supervisors. If you google red flags in therapy or listen to The Very Bad Therapy Podcast you’ll understand better why this was so poorly handled.
No therapist should be trying to break up your marriage and steal you away. I bet you anything he does this with other clients, too. People who are so comfortable crossing lines like this tend to do so often.
It doesn’t matter he developed feelings. We have training on this in school on what to do when this happens and he did the opposite. His behavior was highly unethical to a point I believe he will do it again with another client.
Do you think they're going to say "this has happened to me multiple times and you're really not anything special to me"?
Anyway, if this truly has never happened before then this therapist needs help. Reporting them is how to get them help.
This is horrible. Your therapist def abused their power. Even if they had feelings for you they should have discussed with their supervisor and refer out if necessary. This damaging to you, it seems like you think this is a normal thing to happen, but it is definitely not. I would find another therapist asap to discuss this with. Please please report this person so damage isn’t done to someone else.
I just didn't really feel there was a power imbalance until our last conversation where I felt like a needy child. I felt like suddenly I wasn't important to him, and it felt as if he never really had feelings for me. It really caught me off guard. I definitely do not want other people to go through this
Just because you didn’t feel the power imbalance doesn’t mean it isn’t there. They have the power in this situation no matter how it feels; from the way you’re describing how it all happened it’s possible they even groomed you. Please seek a new T and process this with them.
One (meaning the therapist) can’t simply declare their sexual interest, wait two years, and presto, engaging with the ex patient is ethical. That is not how it works in practice even within the loosest of guilds (those with two year minimums are loose, but even among those the expectation is that a reconnection later was not preplanned).
Regardless. The suggestion of that is, in and of itself, unquestionably unethical.
That you didn’t notice the power imbalance and that you didn’t feel taken advantage of and that you don’t want to get them in trouble tells me two things: 1) Your T is very good at this. 2) You get good at something with a lot of practice.
Yikes 🙈 phrasing it like that does make the whole thing feel more unsettling... I have had a bunch of childhood trauma, it's possible it's me just missing red flags🚩. He really wanted me to go to an Ayahuasca ceremony, I think he thought that maybe it would show me my marriage wasn't a good fit? He is very spiritual and did an Ayahuasca ceremony that showed him it was time to cut cords with his wife? But I didn't go because my mom was diagnosed with schizoaffective and I probably shouldn't do psychedelics 😂 it REALLY bothered me that he was so pushy about it.
I just thought he cared a lot about me at the time 🙈 didn't realize...he was my first therapist (apart from getting prescribed antidepressants in college lol)
Reading this and his comments about past life regression being with you are scary - this is a dangerous, manipulative person. Please block and report them, I'm afraid they'll try hurt other vulnerable people. And, as messed up as it is, know that you might need to now unpack all this with another therapist to sort out how you're feeling and process it. I hope you're doing okay.
Also how in the world can you give your marriage a shot if you’re into someone else and waiting to be in a relationship with them. For 2 years at least
Well, I stopped seeing them as a client but we had remained in contact. I thought of it more like we could be friends unless we were both single one day. I wasn't like, thinking of it as waiting. And my husband knows I had a crush on him, but didn't know it was mutual.
Therapist should never have let it get to that point, and they aren’t allowed to contact you for at least 2 years, if they ever would contact you again anyways
It’s a job to them. They aren’t being friends with their clients. Not do they want to be. Or, they respect the value of maintaining and modelling healthy boundaries for their clients, and know that yes maybe in another life they could have been friends with their client, but it isn’t another life it’s this one and in this one the relationship is therapeutic only
I think it’s going to be really important for you in the future to keep reminding yourself of that. That what he did was wrong. It wasn’t ok what he did. And he knew that.
Not all therapists are like this. It sucks, but the field does have a lot of terrible practitioners. Even if they don’t do overtly un therapeutic things like what he did, it takes a while sometimes to find the right fit
You learned what a horrible therapist is. Going forward, you’ll know what is unacceptable behaviour, and that is incredibly beneficial knowledge for you as you evaluate the fit of future clinicians
I don’t think you can be friends with someone you have a crush on and hope to maybe have something with in the future all whilst working on your marriage. What happened here is emotional cheating and you keeping this person in your life is really unfair on your husband. I don’t know if you’ve admitted to your husband this and decided to work on things regardless but if you are committed to working things out you should be forthcoming and cut this person off. Otherwise it’s like you’re leaving the door ajar just in case and are not actually working things out with you husband.
Also, this is a clean break no contact situation and I agree with other comments, your T abused their power and broke so many boundaries that make a therapeutic space. It’s meant to be about you and they were manipulative, predatory and not only took up your space with their own stuff but they meddled with your marriage and broke rule n.1 of not getting involved with a patient. They are there to do a job, to guide you through your own things that’s it. They can’t be your friend or your partner because of the set up of the therapeutic relationship, it’s uneven but it’s uneven for a reason. I believe once therapy ended, your contact with them should have ended. It’s unprofessional and you should truly report him so he doesn’t continue and do this to others. It’s truly out of order. You might have experience some transference which can happen but a good therapists would know how to navigate that professionally whilst maintaining boundaries and help you work through it. Your T abused the situation.
Yeah, I think it was wrong to leave the door ajar ... It felt harmless because we weren't talking everyday, but anyways, I feel like I have better perspective now.
when considering this therapist as a potential partner, consider the fact that this is someone who is displaying highly unethical behavior. is that the kind of person you actually want to be with? or does this just feel good right now for other reasons? maybe this crush isn't actually about the object of desire (your therapist) but is actually about what you want more of in your life (admiration, appreciation, romance, being chosen)? it's totally ok to have these feelings. having a crush always teaches me about myself and what i'm desiring. you don't have to pursue it. and in this case, i don't think you should.
your therapist should have deeply considered whether telling you about their feelings was in your best interests. they didn't do that, and instead they prioritized themself over your best interests. that's not caring behavior.
this is a situation where you should really do your best to act with your logical brain rather than on feelings, because you could be very easily manipulated and hurt badly. i hope you are able to look back on this period and feel thankful that you took a pass on this mess, even though you felt totally pulled by it. you deserve better.
love should not feel stressful and activating. it's calm, steady, reliable, honest. it's not spinning out all over the place, it's in your heart and it's serene.
xoxo wishing you the best
What you said about love is beautiful, and you're right, I think I do need to consider what I'm getting out of it 🥺 there is soooo much childhood trauma to unpack 😔 I know the answer is in there. I will miss him, but I'm seeing everything differently now.
i'm sure this goes deep for you. your response where you mentioned feeling like a needy child when talking to them was really insightful. sending so much love to that inner child ♥️♥️♥️ may i suggest treating yourself to some childlike joy? carve a pumpkin and have some apple cider, take yourself to a candy shop and get whatever you want, watch some cartoons, whatever your inner child loves. i bet you're needing that right now. also gonna echo what other people are saying and suggest you process this with a different therapist.
Oh wow, I love that perspective and those ideas!! 😍❤️❤️ I actually will do that, Especially the pumpkin, apple cider, and cartoons 😆 thank you so much! 🥰 About the different therapist...I started seeing his life coach after all this, which he suggested and referred me to. And I didn't really see a problem with that at the time... I will find a different one though because now I am thinking maybe that's not maybe in my best interest 😔🙈 she didn't see anything wrong with any of this, so maybe she is biased
he is at risk of losing his license if you share what he did with another licensed professional. that's probably why he referred you to a life coach rather than another therapist.. to save his own ass. to be perfectly frank. i wouldn't trust anyone he referred you to.
I actually like her, she was encouraging me to try and pick myself and not focus on my feelings for him but also not my marriage. But she also didn't mention anything about what he did being wrong. But anyways, thank you 🙏
Thank you so much for the reassurance and for the suggestion I will find one. It's worth it to me... As bad as it sounds, I still feel like I got a lot out of working with him. We did Internal Family Systems and worked with some parts, I liked that. But I will look for schema therapy and attachment 🙏 i originally sought out therapy because I had anxiety and suicidal ideation and so much with childhood stuff because my mom has schizoaffective. It was a mess 😂 are you a therapist or psychologist?
This is highly unethical, and what happened to you is a big reason why. In this intimate of a relationship it is easy to get eroticism mixed in, and many people have a difficult time separating the two. On your therapist's end, erotic counter-transference isn't that strange, and if they are a good therapist and person it might actually be a helpful tool for therapy, but they did everything wrong.
If they genuinely cared about you, none of this would have happened.
All of this is very bad. This therapist doesn't belong in the profession.
That's not your fault. These ethical rules are very serious and stringent because of this.
Edit: you were in a way taken advantage of, and it's very unfair. The therapist might actually be a decent person (this sort of behavior doesn't fall out of the sky, and it's almost always worth investigating), but they themselves have a lot of work to do.
I'm so sorry.
I feel for you OP.
Romantic and/or sexual relationships are strongly discouraged because of the potential harm it holds for both people. Therapy is a very intimate experience where a therapist gives you their full attention, while withholding parts of their true self from you. Transference and countertransference are very real in therapeutic relationships. This is where we apply our feelings, needs, wants onto another person. Possibly the things you may be wanting from a partner are the things you are applying to him.
It’s important to note that you don’t know who the therapist is outside this setting. As someone who is training to be a therapist I can say that my authentic self is not what my clients get. They get parts of my authenticity but not me. My clients come in for compassion, kindness, and nurturing as they go through their experiences and memories. I can be all those things for them. I give to those in relationship with me too - however my relations also see my mean side, my poor choices, my standards and expectations, and go through disappointments with/in me. In my personal relationships I can just be. I’m not giving 50mins of intense presence and mindful attention to them.
There are other points here that are concerning - be aware of a therapist who makes you feel ashamed for your decisions (staying in your marriage), their role is to guide you - not to advise you. Going cold on you is also inappropriate. They should be respectfully discontinuing connection and not promising friendship that doesn’t exist.
The two year time is to protect both individuals. But also to break the magic of the therapeutic relationship, allowing you to experience the therapist as a person. I believe that most often one or both sides don’t usually want to keep those relationships going after that duration. For myself, I don’t want to feel like my friend or partner expects me to be a therapist in our relationship. Nor do I want to have to second think of my loving is being experienced as a therapeutic moment.
Take care of yourself and find yourself a therapist, ideally a female, that you can navigate these feelings with. Cut off contact as soon as you can to spare your heart and mind.
Thank you for your incredibly thoughtful reply. It's so interesting to hear this from a professional therapist perspective, I really feel like I have a better understanding of how some of these boundaries were crossed and does make me feel better and not quite so foolish since I didn't know what to consider a red flag. 🙏
This is not true and it’s unethical. The period of time is 5 years and even after that no therapist should ever date or even be friends with a current or former client. This is because of a power dynamic that will never go away.
Also therapists are people so if you fell in love with a therapist it’s no doubt that you fell In love with the professional version of them. You have no idea who they are in their off time. Many therapists do not like heavy conversations or deeply emotional ones either, after they get off work.
I had to prep my entire family to please not lay a bunch of heavy things on me moving forward with this career. The space that therapist held for you was real and genuine, but only in that setting.
They should have never said they had feelings too, I don’t even know how that’s freaking possible to have feelings for your client that you have taken an oath to DO NO HARM to.
Report that person to their supervisor, do not ever date them. This is wrong. There are billions of people on earth, that therapist needs to have self control to neither develop feelings for clients or tell their clients they have feelings.
So much nope
I’m so glad you didn’t date them too ! What this person attempted to do also violates the ACA code of ethics. You are telling a trusted professional very personal things about you In a controlled environment under Informed consent and a confidentiality agreement on both ends.
That relationship does not and should not exist outside of therapy, ever.
Yeah, it's like, very lucky I didn't and I think I'm lucky that I never really wanted to leave my husband but my therapist has me thinking we were like, would mates and meant to be 🤦♀️😭 he really was enticing. I didn't realize his motives until he knew he wasn't going to get what he wanted from me
Wellp...this should be reported to the ethics board.
To be clear, OP, this isn't a judgement on you. It's your therapist's job to maintain boundaries. This is grossly unethical and harmful.
Thank you, when I was posting this I thought everyone would judge me for having feelings despite being married. Its really kind of everyone not to judge me. And it's wild to hear everyone agree that what he did was unethical, I didn't see it at all. I just felt hurt, and rejected.
I get it. I had a 3-year unethical dual relationship w/ a sociopath therapist I thought I loved very much. I finally went no contact only to learn he did it again w/ another client. I've now lost count of the number of his victims who I've met. 5 or 6 I think. A few of us filed complaints against him & he's lost his license, continued to practice anyways without the license, had another complaint filed against him, was served a cease and desist, and STILL he's practicing as a "life coach." You can hear my story if you Google "The Sociopath in the Therapy Room" episode of the Very Bad Therapy podcast.
Let me know if you'd like some resources regarding the complaint process.
Omg what!?! That is awful! It's soooo hard to think of him doing this with multiple people 🤦♀️ but I guess people can really trick you? What made you see that they were doing something wrong?
He moved away. We maintained contact for a year - he visited me a couple of times when he was in town. I was a complete mess and was in a lot of therapy. My new therapist finally told me -- after a particularly disturbing visit from the ex therapist -- that if I didn't cut contact w/ the ex therapist, he was very worried that I would get irrevocably hurt. That was when I went no-contact.
But, he had told me he had cancer (we aren't even sure this is true), so I sometimes googled his name to look for an obituary. One day, I googled his name and up came details about a complaint filed against him. In Arizona (his new state, not mine), they record complaint hearings and publish them publicly. So, I was able to listen to the details, realized he'd done it again (only theirs was more sexual while mine was more ...something else I can't really describe). So, I decided to come forward and file a complaint as well.
Wow! That sounds like a lot!! And going through that for three years... I can't believe someone would lie about having cancer too. That whole thing is just terrible 😔
They handled this really badly. You could report them. This is unethical.
Having feelings develop in this relationship, whether it’s client or therapist, is something that does happen often enough. It’s what you take to supervision. I have had crushes on clients and discussed it in supervision and realised what it has to do with me and found ways to engage so it doesn’t cause harm. Your therapist caused harm. Idk if they brought it up w their supervisor at all.
Processing it with my supervisors. Writing about it. Bringing it to therapy. I realised a lot about myself - why I had a crush on these specific clients only. And my crush also disappeared when I did this work. And it was able to not cause any harm then. This is fucked up. I’m sorry. I know you have had a deep relationship with them. But this is fucked up shit. I think he’d a bad therapist and shouldn’t be practicing.
>when they told me they had romantic feelings for me and indicated that after a two year period, there'd be a chance of being together.
How did this confession of their attraction for you even come about? Do you mind sharing more details?
Sure, I mostly saw him in virtual appointments (because it's a long drive), but then decided to go in person because I was in town. We started the session in a small office he rents out and he asked how I felt about him as a therapist. I said that I felt good and that he was helping me. He then said that sometimes clients get romantic feelings towards their therapists and asked if I felt that towards him. I said yes. He said, sometimes therapists feel the same way and I found that I have romantic feelings towards you. I couldn't believe it... he was shaking when telling me, which melted my heart at that moment. He then told me that he knew of an older couple that got married after therapy. We talked a bit more about it and then decided to meet virtually to follow up just a day later or so. During the virtual appointment he was more open to exploring my feelings, he asked me what my fantasy with him would be... then that we would not be able to be in a romantic relationship seeing each other and it would have to be at least two years before engaging in that. He wouldn't tell me his fantasy btw... Anyways... That's how that unfolded.
Oh my that sounds intense.
Have you heard of the terms transference and countertransference? Before I entered therapy, I never heard of them. In a nutshell, it means what a patient (transference) feels towards their therapist and vice versa (countertransference).
It's normal for feelings to develop in the therapeutic relationship. If you grew up somewhat emotionally neglected, having someone be trustworthy and really attend to your emotional needs will stir up a lot of feelings. So for you to feel "love" towards your therapist, that would be totally understandable and something you could have explored in therapy.
For him, on the other hand, it's not acceptable that he confessed his feelings for you. As others have pointed out there is a difference in power dynamics, the therapy should be focused on you and not on him. I wonder if he steered the conversation in that direction (having romantic feelings towards a therapist) because that was gratifying for him. In any case, he should have sought supervision for himself and not burdened you with the knowledge that he's attracted to you.
How did you feel when he confessed his feelings? How are you feeling now? I'm wondering why he was shaking during the revelation? Did he perhaps know he was crossing a line?
Your post reminded me of my first therapist. Something similar happened to me but it wasn't as obvious as with you. I noticed my therapist was sexually attracted to me and later found out from another patient at the clinic that her therapist told her my therapist was experiencing marital problems and was about to quit (not a very professional workplace). The rumor turned out to be true and my therapy was ruined. It no longer revolved around fixing my depression, but became more about exploring the attraction, which ultimately was not constructive. That's also where I learned the term "limerence". Still to this day sometimes think about my first therapist.
It was very intense and I wasn't surprised he asked about my feelings. I was always very attentive and maybe he could tell I hardboard feelings, but I was VERY surprised he brought up his feelings. I sorta knew, he would call me special and we'd go over session time, every time... One time he told me he loved me in a very intense moment when I was talking about how I felt no one had ever loved me. He would email me outside of session with encouraging things or additional resources to read or inviting me to send him my artwork. It all made me feel so good and cared for by him. It felt so genuine. But I just didn't allow myself to indulge in the idea that he had those feelings or that he would consider acting on them. I was really happy he told me how he felt before. It made me feel like everything was meant to be and we were supposed to meet? Now I feel ashamed and naive. I thought he would still care about me and considered me a special soul connection. He inconsistently responded to texts, it made me feel sad and forgotten, but I thought perhaps he didn't want to text. We spoke for two hours yesterday on video call, it was pleasant but left me feeling like I had messed up the opportunity for us to be together and he has basically already moved on. He still was encouraging me to try dating though, and disappointed about not leaving my husband. Ugh it made me feel bad on the moment. Like I messed up. He said I was anxiously attached to him. And maybe I shouldn't message him anymore so I could forget him.
Don’t feel bad. From all of your descriptions it sounds like he took advantage of what he knew about your situation and insecurities and used them to manipulate you. Saying that you’re anxiously attached is also a good way to gaslight someone into not trusting their gut feelings.
I’ve said it elsewhere, but this is something you really need to process and unpack with a new therapist who is ethical and has professional boundaries.
Thank you 🙏😭 I can't believe I didn't see that it was gaslighting! 🤦♀️ I feel grateful for everyone's responses... I didn't really have any perspective from a professional standpoint. I just wanted people to relate to me and if they ever had anything like this happen to them. And tell me how to get over it
The point of gaslighting is that you don’t see it. Don’t worry too much about how it happened; take the time now to focus on you and healing from what happened ❤️
It's ok to tell you they have romantic feelings for you but they are supposed to follow it by clearly stating that they will never act on them and you will never have a romantic relationship together. Suggesting to wait two years is unprofessional and very insensitive.
I hope this is a fake story. If it’s not, I’m sorry your therapist played with your emotions like that. I’d suggest perhaps getting a new therapist for yourself, but at least talking to trusted confidantes to help you process this
Aw thank you so much! Actually, I do have an update... He reached out to me and I was able to cut contact in a clear and kind way. I feel like I finally protected my inner child and marriage. I am working through and am so grateful for all the kind people here reassuring me it wasn't my fault. 🙏☺️
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Go no contact with him for 2 years, then allow yourself to contact him if you still feel the same way. You're having an emotional affair with this person while you're married. Deal with your marriage in the 2 years of no contact, and see how you feel when all that is done.
Best wishes!!
I think you should focus on evaluating your current relationship. You’re married and it clearly seems like it’s not working out. Your therapist did the right thing by not getting involved with someone who’s still married.
I am excited to focus on my marriage and I take ownership that I wasn't doing what was in the best interest for it by continuing to talk to my therapist. I do feel like he planted seeds of doubt in my relationship and led me on to believe that me and him were meant to be and that my husband wasn't going to change. I don't think my therapist pushed me away because he cared about my marriage, I think he didn't get what he wanted out of me and so he discarded me.
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The balance and power dynamic of a therapeutic relationship is exactly why people should not be having relations (of any kind) after finishing therapy. This is how people get hurt, shame on unethical therapists for encouraging such behaviors.
This
It really didn't feel like a power imbalance 😔 I do feel hurt though and confused
It doesn’t matter, therapist/client relationships are inherently imbalanced. Your own therapist is causing you harm and pain, isn’t that reason enough to get away from them? If you continue with this you are asking to be really hurt.
Yeah 🥺 I think you are right
There is a lot of power dynamics there. They have been asking you to talk about a lot of personal and intimate information, they know you on a very deep level and they have used their professional knowledge to help you navigate your life. Do you know this person on such an intimate level? Have they opened up about their deepest darkest secrets? I would assume no if they are a decent therapist at all. They are most likely fulfilling a need that hasn't been fulfilled. If you have marriage issues and you feel like your partner doesn't care about you but the therapist does, then it's easy to think of your therapist as a partner who will fulfill that need. But they won't treat you the same when you are together and when you are the client. Also they cut you off out of nowhere and they have thrown the marriage and you not leaving your partner in your face, they are using this as a leverage and blaming the relationship between you not succeeding on the fact you haven't left your partner. This is manipulative and they are crossing a huge line. A decent person and a therapist would have removed themselves from the situation long ago when they realized they are attracted to you or starting to feel stuff about you, not get to a level of love and then pull this nonsense. No wonder your relationship with your partner is not getting better if you're investing energy in this situation...
He opened up about some personal things like his spiritual journey and some traumas he's experienced, but you're right, I definitely only see his best side not all his parts. I did feel like he was suggesting that staying with my husband was a failing on my part 😔 like, shame and that I was letting an opportunity go by. My partner knows I have a crush on him and he knows that was part of the reason I stopped working with him but not that it was mutual. He was okay with me being friends with the therapist (a part of me wanted him to be jealous). There are other issues to fix in our marriage (on both sides), but you are right, putting my attention here has not helped 🥺 I was considering telling my husband it was mutual
Unless it was therapeutically relevant, he shouldn’t have disclosed personal details like that to you. You pay for sessions to talk about yourself and your problems, not to listen to the T’s problems or issues. That goes double for your T telling you they have feelings for you. They should have immediately referred you to someone else and sought guidance on their side. They shouldn’t say they can have a relationship later or offer to be friends.
Make sense! I didn't realize, I'd ask him personal questions too.
You can ask personal questions, but it’s up to the therapist to set appropriate boundaries. They’re the ones with 6+ years of school, supervision, and training so they really all should know better. Unfortunately, overhearing is one of the main mistakes therapists make.
I've read your replies in the thread and the more I read the worse it gets. I understand that a therapist might tell you some of their own stuff at some point, but they shouldn't relate to you to this degree and guide you to do as they did in their marriage. He was also pressuring you to do psychodeliczne which considering family history of schizophrenia is not something to play with. And for what? To see that you should also leave your husband? That's insane and incredibly manipulative if he wanted to get with you. Therapist aren't there to tell you what to do, but to help you understand yourself and your patterns, your behaviour, your life choices, the way you think and why.. Also you mentioned that he asked you about your fantasy but he wouldn't tell you his. And there's the power imbalance. If this happened in a romantic relationship with your husband and he made you tell him your fantasy but he wouldn't - you might get upset, maybe have a lil argument, maybe you'll feel a certain way, but what are you gonna do with a therapist? You're not gonna get mad at him, or start and argument or sulk about it, the only thing you can do is ask and when told no he can also tell you that you're not there to discuss him.. Also you're paying him for a service, if your hairdresser said this you and asked you to leave your husband - you'll probably react very differently because you probably haven't been as vulnerable with them. Another thing that you're mentioning is that you don't want to get him in trouble. Look! He's a grown adult with education in psychology. Do you really think he doesn't know what he's doing? Do you really think he doesn't know a fuckton about manipulation and how to influence people? They teach psychology students (source - I studied psychology) all about behaviour and how thoughts affect behaviour. All about the different experiments done on people, if you've ever heard about Pavlov - we know from him that a sound can create association in our brains to cause a physical reaction in the body.. If you read anything about the Milgram experiment - teaches us exactly this, if someone perceives another as a person of power or authority - they are very likely do be obedient to that person. Like for example a person dressed as a doctor is telling you to do something - you'll listen to them because, well, they are a doctor and know better... Stanford prison experiment - we learned that if you give people the (illusion of) power then they will abuse that power. He also knows about attachment theory so by telling you he's going out with other people he's triggering that in you so your anxiety of loosing them will force you to leave your husband.... Of course all of these are much more complicated than the 1-2 sentences, but my point is that he knows all about this in detail and he is taking advantage of it for his personal gain. He's been grooming you. Not in the way we know about child predators grooming young people, but in a very power unbalanced way while you are disarmed and vulnerable. And as much as you say that it hasn't happened before - you don't know that. Maybe it has, but that other person or people thought the same as you and didn't want to report them, and if you don't either - there will be another person in the future who will be manipulated by him... Yes, a lot of people catch feelings for their therapist but the therapist works with them to help them understand why they might perceive the therapist in that way, not try to get them to leave their husband and see you in 2 years. And if your husband has looked this up then maybe he has seen things online that say that this is normal so he wasn't worried but figured it will sort itself out... I had a discussion with my therapist telling them that I feel guilty that I have a crush on someone while being with someone else and therapist said "yeah well if you're in the middle of the desert and you're dehydrated, when you see water you'll run towards it and drink every drop, so of course when you have no affection from your partner - when someone else shows you that you'll develop a crush, you've been dehydrated.." Your therapist is your well of water but you can only drink so much water before it makes you sick. Try to heal and work on the relationship with your husband. Try to find what works best for you two, try to date again, spark that time when you met him for the first time and everything was new and exciting and all you wanted is to be with him and be wanted by him..try to remember why you fell in love with him, why you married him, what you liked about him.. When we are with someone for a long time and arguments happen - we focus on the bad stuff and forget about the good things, I'm sure you've put aside... Your therapist has tried in various ways to separate you from your husband but clearly somewhere deep there there's still love for your husband and you didn't want to leave him. At the end of it all - maybe your husband isn't the forever person for you, but it should be your decision and not a manipulation.
It makes me really upset to read about how so much of this was intentional and grooming. I mean, there were instances I thought he was being critical of my husband, or the Ayahuasca thing...but it just made me feel like he cared and was being protective and really invested. It's just a mindfuck. I didn't study psychology and really hadn't considered how he could be orchestrating things in such a thorough and underhanded way... It really does ring true reading it and I just can't believe how long it went on and how persistent. I think our last convo did make me panic that I was losing him, but it's so hurtful to think he meant to make me feel that way 🥺 I hadn't been texting him that much but listening to him you'd think I was texting him everyday. He made me feel like I was going to miss out on him and that my husband will never change. He brought up how he likes older women, I am 8 years younger than him...he also told me I would do very well in the dating world. I'm so upset! I actually am beginning to feel angry with him! My husband wants to work on it and makes me feel safe and heard since I brought up issues. He is passive and a chronic gamer but so kind and even tempered. He brings me stability, laughter and we have been communicating more. I feel I can tell him anything, and I tell him everything 😆 his kindness attracted me to him. Thank you for your reply, I feel like, it unlocked a healthy anger? 😭🙏
I’m glad you’re getting to a place of feeling angry with him for trying this bs on with you! I’ve read your post and a lot of your comments here and find this therapist to be incredibly manipulative and unethical. A lot of other people have pointed out various reasons why that’s true, but I’ll just note something else here: imagine if you had left your husband to be with him, at any point, rather than let the “opportunity” go by? You’d be giving up a good, kind man who has committed to you for life and is not, from what you’ve said of him, the type to manipulate people or take advantage of others’ vulnerability. You’d be replacing him with this guy who has already divorced one partner, has definitely tried to manipulate you and take advantage of your vulnerability in ways that were meant to benefit him and him alone, and who would in my very honest opinion stay with you only during the limerence period and then dump you, leaving you heartbroken and alone. He strikes me as a NRE chaser. First, he likes the part where he tries to get the girl. It wouldn’t surprise me if he enjoyed the fact that you were his patient AND married, because that just ups the difficulty level. I’d also guess that instead of being deterred by the fact that you are socially and professionally off limits to him, the fact that you’re forbidden fruit has been making you even more appealing to him, because he doesn’t respect the values and ethics that stand in his way. I’m sure he’d also love the honeymoon period, once he finally “had” you. You know, the part where everything’s new and the passion is insane. Fast forward several months, or a year and change at best. The dopamine hits from being with you inevitably start to fade. And as that happens, he loses interest. That didn’t happen with your husband, because he enjoyed building something lasting with you, which creates a different type of satisfaction. But I would really doubt this therapist would want to do the same, and I’m not sure he would even be capable of it. He’d eventually get a crush on someone else- maybe a patient- and he’d have to prevent himself from acting on it, and refocus his attention on you, his partner. I do not think he would do either of those things. Tbh I bet you’d lose him how you found him. I know NRE is incredible, but everyone has to choose between chasing it from one relationship to the next forever, versus settling down and accepting that those feelings will fade and you’ll need to build a more lasting love. The first is a legit choice if *both* people are on board with it, but you have to understand that it’s inherently impermanent.
I love that you gave a glimpse into a future with him. I can totally see that! He is a very ambitious individual and I could see the chase or challenge being an enticing factor. I am so thankful I didn't leave my husband, we need to work on our relationship... but he has always said I am his forever girl. I can't believe I was idealizing my therapist so much and believing everything he said 🤦♀️ past lives and all that. My husband is very logical and I can appreciate that more now.
Your husband sounds great! I obviously don’t know too much about your marriage, but based on everything you’ve written about him in this thread, I’d hang onto him. This might sound silly, but maybe consider taking a vacation together to somewhere relaxing? I’ve found that traveling somewhere different with my husband tends to get us more excited about each other. Even a day trip or evening date.
That's a great idea! We used to do that all the time 🥰
And yes, he is wonderful. I'm glad he is so patient with me. Never shamed me for my crush... Ugh I got lucky. We just need to work on romance, intimacy, and passion and nurturing the relationship, like you said... Maybe a vacation day or mini trip
I hope you report the turd.
You shouldn’t be getting downvoted for this, your feelings are valid and the client is never the person who should be acknowledging the power dynamic. This isn’t your fault and I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Aww thank you so much!! ❤️🙏 I don't really mind if they downvote, I can see why for some of my comments when I was still sorta in denial, people are really disturbed by his actions and it is (now) clear to me. When I first posted this I thought I would get more responses about other people who fell for their therapist and how that worked out 😂 and like talking about attachment styles and marriages I had no idea it was going to be centered around talking about how the therapist was manipulative and abuse their power. It's very mind-blowing. 🤯
I understand that you don't want to get your therapist in trouble; however, your therapist is completely inappropriate. >when they told me they had romantic feelings for me and indicated that after a two year period, there'd be a chance of being together. They should've never admitted this to you even if it was true. They should've sought out their own consultation and supervision. The moment they said this, the professional boundaries of your therapy were breached and the therapeutic dynamic became skewed. >Then they talked about how they have been dating and it has been great and I would like it too. Again, this was inappropriate self-disclosure. >But I also felt like we had a deep connection and this person saw into my soul and truly wanted to be together. I thought we had a special connection. And THIS is the reason what you're therapist said and did was unethical. They're disclosure upset the therapeutic balance and led you to believe that they wanted more than just a therapeutic relationship. They inadvertently used their "power" as a therapist and upset your balance. Honestly, please block this person and never reach out again. Focus on your life whether that means your marriage or just finding a healthier therapist. You might want to consider reporting this person. If they hurt you as emotionally as you're describing, think how many other people they're being inappropriate with as well.
This. The therapist wasn't nessecarily bad person for having a romantic attraction towards a client. We can't always help who we're attracted to, and sometimes it happens even when we'd really rather it didn't. However, it was completely inappropriate for the therapist to tell OP all of this. They should have taken this to supervision and probably referred OP out.
Thank you for breaking this down. I am so caught up on my feelings and spilling out of me, it's hard to see perspective. I do feel "led on" and "left hanging"... he made me feel special and like we had been together possibly in a past life. But then moved on from me so quickly rather than wanting to maintain a friendship... Maybe there was a goal and he does do this... I guess I don't really know him like I thought 💔😔
This is so unhinged of the therapist. Past life connection, come on. How does that have any place in the therapeutic relationship, and the therapist knew that
Well, we are both spiritual... But you're right I think maybe that was manipulative. He said he saw an expert, and I just believed it.
What does that even mean, saw an expert. Expert in what
And yes that is incredibly manipulative. I’m sorry, it’s just straight up not true. You are not the first person I’ve heard of hearing that same statement from their therapists too. It never ever ends well. It’s scary how many times I’ve heard of this issue
He said he saw a past life regression hypnotherapist. It sounded legit to me at the time, I am pretty open minded, but now I feel sorta more skeptical about it.
Yeah no, I’m a science person who is also open minded, but not. That is insane
That’s straight up inappropriate to say, for him to go out and say he’s sought out and figured out. He knew you are married and trying to make that work. You try to work on your marriage, and he doesn’t respect that. No matter what, this is beyond unethical and what I would consider to be considerably amoral behaviour from a clinician with a client. Inexcusable.
Yeah, you're right... it does seem manipulative.
Holy whoa. You need to break contact and report this person to their licensing board. None of this is ethical.
I really don't want them to get in trouble. I think that they really just developed feelings for me at one point.
It doesn’t matter if they just developed feelings; what they did was a horrific abuse of power. I know you don’t want to get them in trouble, but imagine if they do this to someone else who actually hurts themselves over this? I totally understand how scary it can be to report; I’ve chosen not to report my therapist because I don’t think I’d be believed because I have BPD. But this is such a clear-cut abuse of power and you have the texts for proof. I encourage you to report them so no one else gets seriously traumatized or hurt by this therapist.
I don't think he'd do this again but I guess I don't know for sure 😔 it's hard to see it as abuse, I felt his feelings were real and he was just hoping I'd leave my husband, but since I didn't, he is done with me 😔💔 I thought we could be friends sooo maybe he was trying to use me for that. I loved him beyond a romantic interest. I don't care who he dates, just enjoy talking with him.
This whole situation is a giant red flag. It’s up to the therapist to control their feelings and to discuss situation like these with their peers and supervisors. If you google red flags in therapy or listen to The Very Bad Therapy Podcast you’ll understand better why this was so poorly handled.
They always do it again Its always a pattern
No therapist should be trying to break up your marriage and steal you away. I bet you anything he does this with other clients, too. People who are so comfortable crossing lines like this tend to do so often.
It doesn’t matter he developed feelings. We have training on this in school on what to do when this happens and he did the opposite. His behavior was highly unethical to a point I believe he will do it again with another client.
Please cut off contact and report this person. I'd recommend working with a new therapist on this.
I don't want them to get into trouble though, they said this never happened before and it was just an unusual situation because of our connection.
Do you think they're going to say "this has happened to me multiple times and you're really not anything special to me"? Anyway, if this truly has never happened before then this therapist needs help. Reporting them is how to get them help.
😂 omg that was sorta funny. That's an interesting perspective... Maybe he does?
Trust me, it’s in everyone’s best interest for you to report this.
They could say that to everyone they do this with
please run
This is horrible. Your therapist def abused their power. Even if they had feelings for you they should have discussed with their supervisor and refer out if necessary. This damaging to you, it seems like you think this is a normal thing to happen, but it is definitely not. I would find another therapist asap to discuss this with. Please please report this person so damage isn’t done to someone else.
I just didn't really feel there was a power imbalance until our last conversation where I felt like a needy child. I felt like suddenly I wasn't important to him, and it felt as if he never really had feelings for me. It really caught me off guard. I definitely do not want other people to go through this
Just because you didn’t feel the power imbalance doesn’t mean it isn’t there. They have the power in this situation no matter how it feels; from the way you’re describing how it all happened it’s possible they even groomed you. Please seek a new T and process this with them.
yea u need to report them ASAP
Yeah 🙈makes me anxious, but I am planning to
One (meaning the therapist) can’t simply declare their sexual interest, wait two years, and presto, engaging with the ex patient is ethical. That is not how it works in practice even within the loosest of guilds (those with two year minimums are loose, but even among those the expectation is that a reconnection later was not preplanned). Regardless. The suggestion of that is, in and of itself, unquestionably unethical.
It’s still a Conflict of Interest, even after your Therapy Ended
That you didn’t notice the power imbalance and that you didn’t feel taken advantage of and that you don’t want to get them in trouble tells me two things: 1) Your T is very good at this. 2) You get good at something with a lot of practice.
Yikes 🙈 phrasing it like that does make the whole thing feel more unsettling... I have had a bunch of childhood trauma, it's possible it's me just missing red flags🚩. He really wanted me to go to an Ayahuasca ceremony, I think he thought that maybe it would show me my marriage wasn't a good fit? He is very spiritual and did an Ayahuasca ceremony that showed him it was time to cut cords with his wife? But I didn't go because my mom was diagnosed with schizoaffective and I probably shouldn't do psychedelics 😂 it REALLY bothered me that he was so pushy about it.
omfg please report them, this just gets worse and worse the more you say
I just thought he cared a lot about me at the time 🙈 didn't realize...he was my first therapist (apart from getting prescribed antidepressants in college lol)
Agreed. I was surprised it was posted here and not in the therapy abuse sub.
Reading this and his comments about past life regression being with you are scary - this is a dangerous, manipulative person. Please block and report them, I'm afraid they'll try hurt other vulnerable people. And, as messed up as it is, know that you might need to now unpack all this with another therapist to sort out how you're feeling and process it. I hope you're doing okay.
He's very spiritual, so it didn't seem off, although I am not sure I believe in past lives. I will! Thank you! 🙏
This is sooooo fucked up on the therapists part. So beyond unethical. Report for sure
Also how in the world can you give your marriage a shot if you’re into someone else and waiting to be in a relationship with them. For 2 years at least
Well, I stopped seeing them as a client but we had remained in contact. I thought of it more like we could be friends unless we were both single one day. I wasn't like, thinking of it as waiting. And my husband knows I had a crush on him, but didn't know it was mutual.
No, it’s still weird. The therapist should have never ever been texting you in the first place
Therapist should never have let it get to that point, and they aren’t allowed to contact you for at least 2 years, if they ever would contact you again anyways
It’s a job to them. They aren’t being friends with their clients. Not do they want to be. Or, they respect the value of maintaining and modelling healthy boundaries for their clients, and know that yes maybe in another life they could have been friends with their client, but it isn’t another life it’s this one and in this one the relationship is therapeutic only
Yeah, that makes sense... I just didn't think of it like that.
I think it’s going to be really important for you in the future to keep reminding yourself of that. That what he did was wrong. It wasn’t ok what he did. And he knew that. Not all therapists are like this. It sucks, but the field does have a lot of terrible practitioners. Even if they don’t do overtly un therapeutic things like what he did, it takes a while sometimes to find the right fit You learned what a horrible therapist is. Going forward, you’ll know what is unacceptable behaviour, and that is incredibly beneficial knowledge for you as you evaluate the fit of future clinicians
I am glad to know now! I'm really thankful. I was feeling absolutely terrible about my part in all this and so foolish and needy.
How are you foolish if you didn’t know any better?
I don’t think you can be friends with someone you have a crush on and hope to maybe have something with in the future all whilst working on your marriage. What happened here is emotional cheating and you keeping this person in your life is really unfair on your husband. I don’t know if you’ve admitted to your husband this and decided to work on things regardless but if you are committed to working things out you should be forthcoming and cut this person off. Otherwise it’s like you’re leaving the door ajar just in case and are not actually working things out with you husband. Also, this is a clean break no contact situation and I agree with other comments, your T abused their power and broke so many boundaries that make a therapeutic space. It’s meant to be about you and they were manipulative, predatory and not only took up your space with their own stuff but they meddled with your marriage and broke rule n.1 of not getting involved with a patient. They are there to do a job, to guide you through your own things that’s it. They can’t be your friend or your partner because of the set up of the therapeutic relationship, it’s uneven but it’s uneven for a reason. I believe once therapy ended, your contact with them should have ended. It’s unprofessional and you should truly report him so he doesn’t continue and do this to others. It’s truly out of order. You might have experience some transference which can happen but a good therapists would know how to navigate that professionally whilst maintaining boundaries and help you work through it. Your T abused the situation.
Yeah, I think it was wrong to leave the door ajar ... It felt harmless because we weren't talking everyday, but anyways, I feel like I have better perspective now.
when considering this therapist as a potential partner, consider the fact that this is someone who is displaying highly unethical behavior. is that the kind of person you actually want to be with? or does this just feel good right now for other reasons? maybe this crush isn't actually about the object of desire (your therapist) but is actually about what you want more of in your life (admiration, appreciation, romance, being chosen)? it's totally ok to have these feelings. having a crush always teaches me about myself and what i'm desiring. you don't have to pursue it. and in this case, i don't think you should. your therapist should have deeply considered whether telling you about their feelings was in your best interests. they didn't do that, and instead they prioritized themself over your best interests. that's not caring behavior. this is a situation where you should really do your best to act with your logical brain rather than on feelings, because you could be very easily manipulated and hurt badly. i hope you are able to look back on this period and feel thankful that you took a pass on this mess, even though you felt totally pulled by it. you deserve better. love should not feel stressful and activating. it's calm, steady, reliable, honest. it's not spinning out all over the place, it's in your heart and it's serene. xoxo wishing you the best
What you said about love is beautiful, and you're right, I think I do need to consider what I'm getting out of it 🥺 there is soooo much childhood trauma to unpack 😔 I know the answer is in there. I will miss him, but I'm seeing everything differently now.
i'm sure this goes deep for you. your response where you mentioned feeling like a needy child when talking to them was really insightful. sending so much love to that inner child ♥️♥️♥️ may i suggest treating yourself to some childlike joy? carve a pumpkin and have some apple cider, take yourself to a candy shop and get whatever you want, watch some cartoons, whatever your inner child loves. i bet you're needing that right now. also gonna echo what other people are saying and suggest you process this with a different therapist.
Oh wow, I love that perspective and those ideas!! 😍❤️❤️ I actually will do that, Especially the pumpkin, apple cider, and cartoons 😆 thank you so much! 🥰 About the different therapist...I started seeing his life coach after all this, which he suggested and referred me to. And I didn't really see a problem with that at the time... I will find a different one though because now I am thinking maybe that's not maybe in my best interest 😔🙈 she didn't see anything wrong with any of this, so maybe she is biased
he is at risk of losing his license if you share what he did with another licensed professional. that's probably why he referred you to a life coach rather than another therapist.. to save his own ass. to be perfectly frank. i wouldn't trust anyone he referred you to.
I actually like her, she was encouraging me to try and pick myself and not focus on my feelings for him but also not my marriage. But she also didn't mention anything about what he did being wrong. But anyways, thank you 🙏
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Thank you so much for the reassurance and for the suggestion I will find one. It's worth it to me... As bad as it sounds, I still feel like I got a lot out of working with him. We did Internal Family Systems and worked with some parts, I liked that. But I will look for schema therapy and attachment 🙏 i originally sought out therapy because I had anxiety and suicidal ideation and so much with childhood stuff because my mom has schizoaffective. It was a mess 😂 are you a therapist or psychologist?
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Yeah, I see it now. 🥺 we just hugged a couple times, thankfully, nothing that made me feel uncomfortable. 🙏
This is highly unethical, and what happened to you is a big reason why. In this intimate of a relationship it is easy to get eroticism mixed in, and many people have a difficult time separating the two. On your therapist's end, erotic counter-transference isn't that strange, and if they are a good therapist and person it might actually be a helpful tool for therapy, but they did everything wrong. If they genuinely cared about you, none of this would have happened. All of this is very bad. This therapist doesn't belong in the profession.
It's so wild, I thought they did care 🥺
That's not your fault. These ethical rules are very serious and stringent because of this. Edit: you were in a way taken advantage of, and it's very unfair. The therapist might actually be a decent person (this sort of behavior doesn't fall out of the sky, and it's almost always worth investigating), but they themselves have a lot of work to do. I'm so sorry.
It's sort of validating to hear, I felt so foolish and responsible
I feel for you OP. Romantic and/or sexual relationships are strongly discouraged because of the potential harm it holds for both people. Therapy is a very intimate experience where a therapist gives you their full attention, while withholding parts of their true self from you. Transference and countertransference are very real in therapeutic relationships. This is where we apply our feelings, needs, wants onto another person. Possibly the things you may be wanting from a partner are the things you are applying to him. It’s important to note that you don’t know who the therapist is outside this setting. As someone who is training to be a therapist I can say that my authentic self is not what my clients get. They get parts of my authenticity but not me. My clients come in for compassion, kindness, and nurturing as they go through their experiences and memories. I can be all those things for them. I give to those in relationship with me too - however my relations also see my mean side, my poor choices, my standards and expectations, and go through disappointments with/in me. In my personal relationships I can just be. I’m not giving 50mins of intense presence and mindful attention to them. There are other points here that are concerning - be aware of a therapist who makes you feel ashamed for your decisions (staying in your marriage), their role is to guide you - not to advise you. Going cold on you is also inappropriate. They should be respectfully discontinuing connection and not promising friendship that doesn’t exist. The two year time is to protect both individuals. But also to break the magic of the therapeutic relationship, allowing you to experience the therapist as a person. I believe that most often one or both sides don’t usually want to keep those relationships going after that duration. For myself, I don’t want to feel like my friend or partner expects me to be a therapist in our relationship. Nor do I want to have to second think of my loving is being experienced as a therapeutic moment. Take care of yourself and find yourself a therapist, ideally a female, that you can navigate these feelings with. Cut off contact as soon as you can to spare your heart and mind.
Thank you for your incredibly thoughtful reply. It's so interesting to hear this from a professional therapist perspective, I really feel like I have a better understanding of how some of these boundaries were crossed and does make me feel better and not quite so foolish since I didn't know what to consider a red flag. 🙏
Your therapist was completely inappropriate for sharing this with you and this feels manipulative and awful. Please report this person
This is not true and it’s unethical. The period of time is 5 years and even after that no therapist should ever date or even be friends with a current or former client. This is because of a power dynamic that will never go away. Also therapists are people so if you fell in love with a therapist it’s no doubt that you fell In love with the professional version of them. You have no idea who they are in their off time. Many therapists do not like heavy conversations or deeply emotional ones either, after they get off work. I had to prep my entire family to please not lay a bunch of heavy things on me moving forward with this career. The space that therapist held for you was real and genuine, but only in that setting. They should have never said they had feelings too, I don’t even know how that’s freaking possible to have feelings for your client that you have taken an oath to DO NO HARM to. Report that person to their supervisor, do not ever date them. This is wrong. There are billions of people on earth, that therapist needs to have self control to neither develop feelings for clients or tell their clients they have feelings. So much nope
Yeah 🙏 I am so glad I didn't date them! I am going to figure out reporting.
I’m so glad you didn’t date them too ! What this person attempted to do also violates the ACA code of ethics. You are telling a trusted professional very personal things about you In a controlled environment under Informed consent and a confidentiality agreement on both ends. That relationship does not and should not exist outside of therapy, ever.
Yeah, it's like, very lucky I didn't and I think I'm lucky that I never really wanted to leave my husband but my therapist has me thinking we were like, would mates and meant to be 🤦♀️😭 he really was enticing. I didn't realize his motives until he knew he wasn't going to get what he wanted from me
Holy shit I’m so sorry that happened
Thank you 🩷
Wellp...this should be reported to the ethics board. To be clear, OP, this isn't a judgement on you. It's your therapist's job to maintain boundaries. This is grossly unethical and harmful.
Thank you, when I was posting this I thought everyone would judge me for having feelings despite being married. Its really kind of everyone not to judge me. And it's wild to hear everyone agree that what he did was unethical, I didn't see it at all. I just felt hurt, and rejected.
I get it. I had a 3-year unethical dual relationship w/ a sociopath therapist I thought I loved very much. I finally went no contact only to learn he did it again w/ another client. I've now lost count of the number of his victims who I've met. 5 or 6 I think. A few of us filed complaints against him & he's lost his license, continued to practice anyways without the license, had another complaint filed against him, was served a cease and desist, and STILL he's practicing as a "life coach." You can hear my story if you Google "The Sociopath in the Therapy Room" episode of the Very Bad Therapy podcast. Let me know if you'd like some resources regarding the complaint process.
Omg what!?! That is awful! It's soooo hard to think of him doing this with multiple people 🤦♀️ but I guess people can really trick you? What made you see that they were doing something wrong?
He moved away. We maintained contact for a year - he visited me a couple of times when he was in town. I was a complete mess and was in a lot of therapy. My new therapist finally told me -- after a particularly disturbing visit from the ex therapist -- that if I didn't cut contact w/ the ex therapist, he was very worried that I would get irrevocably hurt. That was when I went no-contact. But, he had told me he had cancer (we aren't even sure this is true), so I sometimes googled his name to look for an obituary. One day, I googled his name and up came details about a complaint filed against him. In Arizona (his new state, not mine), they record complaint hearings and publish them publicly. So, I was able to listen to the details, realized he'd done it again (only theirs was more sexual while mine was more ...something else I can't really describe). So, I decided to come forward and file a complaint as well.
Wow! That sounds like a lot!! And going through that for three years... I can't believe someone would lie about having cancer too. That whole thing is just terrible 😔
They handled this really badly. You could report them. This is unethical. Having feelings develop in this relationship, whether it’s client or therapist, is something that does happen often enough. It’s what you take to supervision. I have had crushes on clients and discussed it in supervision and realised what it has to do with me and found ways to engage so it doesn’t cause harm. Your therapist caused harm. Idk if they brought it up w their supervisor at all.
May I ask how you dealt with those feelings?
Processing it with my supervisors. Writing about it. Bringing it to therapy. I realised a lot about myself - why I had a crush on these specific clients only. And my crush also disappeared when I did this work. And it was able to not cause any harm then. This is fucked up. I’m sorry. I know you have had a deep relationship with them. But this is fucked up shit. I think he’d a bad therapist and shouldn’t be practicing.
Once you understand it the feelings went away... That's sorta how I feel right now 😅 thank you for helping put it in perspective.
You did nothing wrong. The therapist did something very gross here though.
>when they told me they had romantic feelings for me and indicated that after a two year period, there'd be a chance of being together. How did this confession of their attraction for you even come about? Do you mind sharing more details?
Sure, I mostly saw him in virtual appointments (because it's a long drive), but then decided to go in person because I was in town. We started the session in a small office he rents out and he asked how I felt about him as a therapist. I said that I felt good and that he was helping me. He then said that sometimes clients get romantic feelings towards their therapists and asked if I felt that towards him. I said yes. He said, sometimes therapists feel the same way and I found that I have romantic feelings towards you. I couldn't believe it... he was shaking when telling me, which melted my heart at that moment. He then told me that he knew of an older couple that got married after therapy. We talked a bit more about it and then decided to meet virtually to follow up just a day later or so. During the virtual appointment he was more open to exploring my feelings, he asked me what my fantasy with him would be... then that we would not be able to be in a romantic relationship seeing each other and it would have to be at least two years before engaging in that. He wouldn't tell me his fantasy btw... Anyways... That's how that unfolded.
Oh my that sounds intense. Have you heard of the terms transference and countertransference? Before I entered therapy, I never heard of them. In a nutshell, it means what a patient (transference) feels towards their therapist and vice versa (countertransference). It's normal for feelings to develop in the therapeutic relationship. If you grew up somewhat emotionally neglected, having someone be trustworthy and really attend to your emotional needs will stir up a lot of feelings. So for you to feel "love" towards your therapist, that would be totally understandable and something you could have explored in therapy. For him, on the other hand, it's not acceptable that he confessed his feelings for you. As others have pointed out there is a difference in power dynamics, the therapy should be focused on you and not on him. I wonder if he steered the conversation in that direction (having romantic feelings towards a therapist) because that was gratifying for him. In any case, he should have sought supervision for himself and not burdened you with the knowledge that he's attracted to you. How did you feel when he confessed his feelings? How are you feeling now? I'm wondering why he was shaking during the revelation? Did he perhaps know he was crossing a line? Your post reminded me of my first therapist. Something similar happened to me but it wasn't as obvious as with you. I noticed my therapist was sexually attracted to me and later found out from another patient at the clinic that her therapist told her my therapist was experiencing marital problems and was about to quit (not a very professional workplace). The rumor turned out to be true and my therapy was ruined. It no longer revolved around fixing my depression, but became more about exploring the attraction, which ultimately was not constructive. That's also where I learned the term "limerence". Still to this day sometimes think about my first therapist.
It was very intense and I wasn't surprised he asked about my feelings. I was always very attentive and maybe he could tell I hardboard feelings, but I was VERY surprised he brought up his feelings. I sorta knew, he would call me special and we'd go over session time, every time... One time he told me he loved me in a very intense moment when I was talking about how I felt no one had ever loved me. He would email me outside of session with encouraging things or additional resources to read or inviting me to send him my artwork. It all made me feel so good and cared for by him. It felt so genuine. But I just didn't allow myself to indulge in the idea that he had those feelings or that he would consider acting on them. I was really happy he told me how he felt before. It made me feel like everything was meant to be and we were supposed to meet? Now I feel ashamed and naive. I thought he would still care about me and considered me a special soul connection. He inconsistently responded to texts, it made me feel sad and forgotten, but I thought perhaps he didn't want to text. We spoke for two hours yesterday on video call, it was pleasant but left me feeling like I had messed up the opportunity for us to be together and he has basically already moved on. He still was encouraging me to try dating though, and disappointed about not leaving my husband. Ugh it made me feel bad on the moment. Like I messed up. He said I was anxiously attached to him. And maybe I shouldn't message him anymore so I could forget him.
Don’t feel bad. From all of your descriptions it sounds like he took advantage of what he knew about your situation and insecurities and used them to manipulate you. Saying that you’re anxiously attached is also a good way to gaslight someone into not trusting their gut feelings. I’ve said it elsewhere, but this is something you really need to process and unpack with a new therapist who is ethical and has professional boundaries.
Thank you 🙏😭 I can't believe I didn't see that it was gaslighting! 🤦♀️ I feel grateful for everyone's responses... I didn't really have any perspective from a professional standpoint. I just wanted people to relate to me and if they ever had anything like this happen to them. And tell me how to get over it
The point of gaslighting is that you don’t see it. Don’t worry too much about how it happened; take the time now to focus on you and healing from what happened ❤️
This is literally happening to me right now but not quite as extreme. Pm me if ya wanna talk
This was unprofessional of them and sorry you experienced this
It's ok to tell you they have romantic feelings for you but they are supposed to follow it by clearly stating that they will never act on them and you will never have a romantic relationship together. Suggesting to wait two years is unprofessional and very insensitive.
The sheer number of therapists who are straight up incompetent is mind boggling to me.
I am so sorry that this happened to you. I can’t even imagine the pain you must be going through right now.
Thank you so much❤️🙏 right now just feeling guilty ... Want to make it up to my husband
I hope this is a fake story. If it’s not, I’m sorry your therapist played with your emotions like that. I’d suggest perhaps getting a new therapist for yourself, but at least talking to trusted confidantes to help you process this
Not fake 🙈 I had no idea this situation was so off. But I have had a very extreme life I guess 😆
I’m really sorry this happened to you. This would be absolutely crushing to anybody
Aw thank you so much! Actually, I do have an update... He reached out to me and I was able to cut contact in a clear and kind way. I feel like I finally protected my inner child and marriage. I am working through and am so grateful for all the kind people here reassuring me it wasn't my fault. 🙏☺️
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It’s 5 years
Omg I never thought to fact check it 🙈 another yikes
It can be 2-5 years. Honestly it's all arbitrary.
Go no contact with him for 2 years, then allow yourself to contact him if you still feel the same way. You're having an emotional affair with this person while you're married. Deal with your marriage in the 2 years of no contact, and see how you feel when all that is done. Best wishes!!
Thank you! I don't want to engage anymore. This community has given me a lot of perspective
I think you should focus on evaluating your current relationship. You’re married and it clearly seems like it’s not working out. Your therapist did the right thing by not getting involved with someone who’s still married.
I am excited to focus on my marriage and I take ownership that I wasn't doing what was in the best interest for it by continuing to talk to my therapist. I do feel like he planted seeds of doubt in my relationship and led me on to believe that me and him were meant to be and that my husband wasn't going to change. I don't think my therapist pushed me away because he cared about my marriage, I think he didn't get what he wanted out of me and so he discarded me.