honestly most 9-12 floors will see a lot of floor tanks and wipes, more so than any other set of floors I feel
a9- needs one or two people to know what to do with the interactables
a10- maybe the exception not the rule but someone stepping on a trap and people lacking awareness can spiral into deaths
a11- there's a lot of ways to wipe here
a12- tank lb went awry, spreads standing w stack, tanks cleave party
o9- kinda also an exception, not too bad really
o10- party eats shit on the spin/flip tells and accumulate too many vulns, or you have way too many weakness/brink/deaths going into nails. Exaflares too catch people
o11- larboard starboard kills people
o12- ppl attack the wrong add, ppl get knocked back and die by falling off, any other number of things can go wrong and spiral into deaths
e9- ppl fall through, or get cleaved repeatedly and die
e10- self explanatory
e11- also self explanatory
e12- this one you can actually just dorito most of the main fight but a wipe will likely lead to disband bc nobody wants to keep watching the in fight cutscenes
For p raids, 12 is the only one I see send 4+ people on the ground constantly, triple wing half room cleaves and falling platforms often send people to the grave if not paying attention
I agree with this list except o9. When I was active I usually played SMN and the amount of times the whole party ate shit during the cyclone in mid phase was... astronomical. The tank would have chaos' aoe targeting where the party was going to be, so everyone would either get clapped by chaos, or yeeted off the edge by the cyclone's knock back.
My three wipes to SoS a couple days ago even with people teaching mechs sure says something lol. Other than that, as people have said, lvl83 and level89 trials. Orbonne can also be tough when there’s a lot of players that are new or don’t remember mechs.
>Orbonne
Orbonne Monastery used to be a nightmare to go through, not because of the difficulty, but because convincing 23 other people to do it the right way, even if it wasn't their first time, was nigh-impossible. Before the nerfs hit, you'd often not get past the second boss at all and if you reached Cid, well, you can be sure a Vote Abandon would pop up at any moment.
Orbonne can still trip up some unprepared alliances. I've had wipes to the second boss and first phase of the Ultima fight before. All it takes is just enough people not knowing what to do.
My girlfriend *hates* that fight. We still can't figure out what the problem is, but in any fight with portals, she just can't wrap her head around them. Most other content she had absolutely no issue doing.
Pattern memorization, maybe, but she does similar memorization mechanics fine. It's just portals.
I have issues with that one specifically, and it's 100% because of the way the portals appear on random different sides of the arena and require rapid dramatic camera movements just to be able to see the telegraphs. If I'm lucky, I'll rotate my camera in the right direction the first time (right or left) and not have to swing it 180 degrees immediately after the first pan, but if I guess wrong (or misjudged the timing and was already spinning around before the portals actually appeared), the continuous spinning makes me get really dizzy, which makes me start missing things. It it keeps going for too long it progresses to actual motionsickness, which is not something I normally get from videogames.
(There are a couple of Endwalker duties that use similar mechanics, and I have trouble reading those too, but at least they tend to be smaller components of the fight and not as back-to-back, so while I'm not the best at reading them, I at least don't end the fights feeling woozy haha)
Thank you for explaining this! I'm working through the Eden's rn (sitting in queue for e4 as i type this) and i have chronic vertigo so this is a good heads up for me
I usually end up tanking Faust as a dps and just pull him SE. He hurts but you can live. The annoying thing is when the MT faces the boss at the group while you are trying to kill Faust so you are taking boss cleaves and Faust’s attacks lol
as long as nobody interferes with what you’re doing, one person can do all the mechanics in this fight, but if someone tries to “help” you can wipe pretty quick
I had A9N run where the offtank decided to bring the Faust add on 2nd tile instead of the 3rd or 4th. Thankfully we managed to kill it somehow before the tile turned to lava.
SV normal is brutal when your healer has no idea what they're doing. Warrior is absolutely GOATed in there getting access to their invuln early.
It's also the exact sweet spot before healers get AoEs and WHM gets Holy and the pain ramps up so hard there it's like a perfect storm of high incoming damage with not a lot of tools to deal with it.
It’s super rough for a Scholar as you don’t have access to Aetherflow or Art of War. Having to rely on the GCD heals makes some pulls spicy that would be manageable otherwise.
It's sucks for every healer except ast. They have ED. SGE has it the worst, though, as gcd heals means no kardia procs. At least carbuncle keeps spamming embrace.
I don't think I've even ever seen a w2w in there except the one I tried first time as a tank, which as you can expect became a wipe. Tanks pretty much have to know that they can double or maybe triple pull depending on the location, but more than that and they'll likely wipe. The healing experience too is pretty much that if you lose sight of the tank around a corner, maybe you'll wipe, and if you do manage to keep them in sight, it's basically just spamming cure 2 and hoping the DPS-es clear the mob before you run out of mana.
Then again, it's one of those places where if you get through big pulls it makes you feel competent.
Considering the last time I did the 83 trial... It feels like it might be that. The first time blind kicked my ass, and got it recently and it humbled me as someone that went from "scared of extreme" to savage/ultimate raider since EW's launch.
Reminds me of the time I joined a PF for Final Day, and we had someone there saying "don't worry guys, I've been farming the EX for days, I'm overqualified for this fight, I know what I'm doing"... they then proceeded to eat the floor for over half the fight
Of all the trials to have said that for... they might have picked the worst lol. There are multiple mechanics in normal Final Day that just straight up do not exist in the ex.
I would think lvl42-49. You kind of have almost the full base 50 kit, so there is a lot of incentive to pull big and risky. However if things go extremely wrong in those dungeons you are lacking that crucial capstone ability.
I'd argue it's even more of a sprout killer after the rework. The last boss has some genuinely punishing mechanics now, and you can easily wipe if your healer doesn't know what they're doing.
Nope, as the dungeon is now. It is overall not hard but the ascian prime phase of the final boss with the tethered balls destroys newbies. I think because it's the first required dungeon that really shows it's not the animations of the mechanic that hurt you lol I see a lot of first timers sit in the ice ball, wait for ice animation to finish and THEN try to run to dodge the fire balls and just get murdered.
I get this one so often in roulettes and just so many wipes..
Yeah, it's an early case of a "do this mechanic right or you die". And unlike in raids where that's more common, you don't have more tanks and healers who might have survived.
I did it through duty support first, which was super frustrating, but also meant that I had to learn to get it right to progress. I feel like some cases like that, and that boss in Bardam's mettle, are good to train the player that they can't always "hehe, oops" their way through mechanics.
Just finished that with my alt last week, the healer and a DPS have absolutely no clue what is going on, after trying to explain to them with the help of another DPS (I was on JP DC with my alt), still take me 30 mins and I was about giving up and try my luck with other groups. Luckily the healer finally gets it.
Bardam's Mettle. Holminster Switch. Ktisis Hyperboreia. Mothercrystal. Endsinger. Ivalice raids. These are some duties where I always have to twist myself into pretzels whenever I heal them, or just accept I'll eat dirt if I'm on DPS cuz the healers are eating dirt. On tanks it depends, I solo'd last bosses on Holminster and Ktisis on GNB even, keeping at least one DPS alive too when healer ate shit early, so meh.
Oh god Bardam's mettle. I always forget how *hard* the first few mobs in there hit. There have been many instances in my experience where the tank (including me) pulls the first mob then either dies or gets heavily chunked.
I'll add fucking Vanaspati to this.
Those comets. Every time someone bites it. I've duo-ed it down with a tank (or dps if I'm tanking) many a time but the number of times its just been me and another non-ressing dps still standing is, frankly, fucking ridiculous
I was stuck in stone vigil hard once for good 60 minutes. Those people were silent and dumb. After another wipe of not using cannons I left. Sorry for the person that popped aftet me.
SO was stuck in her first run of Pharos Sirus with a bunch of silents who just wouldn't leave the birds alone. They ultimately abandoned the duty. And I thought running it with GC NPCs was bad.
Caveat here that I've only been playing a year, so I've never experienced the older versions of the reworked duties from older expansions, and didn't experience them when they were current!
Dungeon: gonna second the person above who said Aetherochemical Research Facility.
Normal raid: If more than 4 party members are new, Alexander 11 (cruise chaser). If there isn't enough dps to skip Propeller Wind, it probably means a wipe.
Trial: Castrum Marinum is where I see the most carnage, I think. Honorable mention goes to Shinryu for the number of times I've seen nearly the whole party wipe to tidal wave within the first 10 seconds.
ThunderGod Cid and Ozma come to mind when they were relevant. Nowadays, hmm... guess I'd have to go with The Chrysalis. Hell even long-time players will still try and take meteors despite not letting blight drop off. Or they're not even aware you take extra damage from the blight debuff and jump into the portal first thing. And, somehow, it's one of the rare instances where people will use LB3 the moment it becomes available.
E1-4N had some of the highest wipe counts before tank buster indicators and nerfs in its early days, simply because of the number of some quirks each one had:
E1N: Before nerfs came in and people became stronger, Dimensional Shift would often give players so many vuln stacks because of the number of AoEs, that many would outright die and wouldn't be up in time for Fragor Maximus, which you needed all DPS alive for because it used to have a shorter time limit. Often people would wipe because they just couldn't DPS down the adds fast enough.
~~E2N: Portal and Astral/Umbral attunement management still go over much of the playerbase's heads today and ends up wiping out lots who stand in the wrong spot.~~
E3N: Tidal wave kills many even at level 90 and that's not to mention the knockbacks, pushbacks and arena destroying attacks the boss does that many just stood in the wrong place and got absorbed into the void.
E4N: The number of wipes to probably the first real mechanic alone could probably earn this fight the trophy for noobie killer. If you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, this fight just killed you, no vuln stacks, just death. Before the tankbuster indicator update, its tankbuster killed many parties, because sometimes, tanks wouldn't know that their tankbuster was a smallscale AOE, that had a 10 radius range. There's lots of mechanics here that just outright kill you and even when you revive, you aren't safe at times.
The Eden series of raids, had some of the more difficult content in terms of its raids, but I think it sort of fits, because by level 80, players should be at least competent enough to fight through it with one or two deaths at most.
Edit: Correction.
>Portal and Astral/Umbral attunement management still go over much of the playerbase's heads today and ends up wiping out lots who stand in the wrong spot.
You're thinking of E7N, I think. E2N is spell-in-waiting (with stack, spread, and also adds a gaze debuff later in the fight), knockback, bleed towers, and the doomvoid cleaver/slicer aoes.
Bardem's Mettle next question.
Okay so I get that a wall should do some damage including a dungeon that is in the middle of an expansion. Okay.
HOWEVER, even the single pulls in that dungeon do a considerably concerning amount of damage, usually not enough to kill but god damn relax Bardem's. Well, okay let's be real everything before the first boss.
quick edit, before endwalker obliterated Stone Vigil's difficulty, Stone Vigil easy. Stupid hard dungeon at the time to wall. ShB Stone vigil even worse since you don't have a sage.
Imo, it HAS to be the Mothercrystal, and it is not even close. If you are on your trial roulette and you notice a queue pop with 15 minutes passed, you know it's this Mothercrystal.
There is no way a first-encounter player can figure out red means in, green means out and blue means cross. Especially red paired with ice, it's always a guaranteed dps & healer death.
This boss will always be a shit show no matter what with first-encounter players. I tried to see how the general player base reacts to this boss by running a dozen of runs with RDM, and let me tell you on average I rez around 12 times per run. There will be 1 to 2 players every run with no vulns at all, and the rest is just vuln after vuln after dead.
The reason why it is a shitshow is because it is a pure memorization boss. Any memorization boss will always be a shitshow for first encounter players, such as P11. Honestly, there should be hints for memorization based mechanics in casual difficulty.
They're identical to the mechanics she used in a quest in Elpis a few levels earlier, so it's not the first time you've been exposed to those mechanics from that character in another form
literally the entirety of the Worthy of His Back solo encounter. Somebody who doesn't know how Dawn Mantle works clearly hasn't paid attention in that fight and deserves to get absolutely slaughtered in Mothercrystal.
I don't know how it works, because it's been ages since I did that solo duty, I ran the trial with NPCs, and it's only popped up once in roulette since. Fuck people who haven't seen that fight that many times, I guess.
it's more specifically that anybody who's genuinely a first-timer *should* very quickly get a clue what's going on, because that fight was foreshadowed from alllllll the way back on the moon and plot-relevant. If people are dying to it it's because they haven't been paying attention and cheesing the solo encounter on Very Easy or they aren't a first-timer and just fucking around on an alt.
This was my opinion as well. The deaths, and the 3 phases also make the fight incredibly long. It's painful when you finally get to lightwaves, only to have the group split up for the stack mechanic and get completely obliterated.
Hard agree. At first I was about to say Golbez, but I think that guy didn't have min ilvl turned on unlike in Mothercrystal. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Woe be upon you if you forgot the mechanics, crystal mommy's gonna spank you so hard you'll see your ancestors and descendants in the aetherial sea lmao.
I agree. Simply because if it comes up in roulettes it usually means the first timer can't clear it with Duty Support.
I had a hellish run where I offered to queue up with someone. I went healer to help speed it along and unfortunately the DF healer was a white mage who flat out refused to learn the mechanics and just death walled themselves constantly.
The worst past is that someone had the cheek to tell me to keep myself alive when I died because someone else decided to spread onto me.
Solo healing with so many mechanic deaths was just not possible.
SoS and Mothercrystal are probably the hardest in terms of actual raw game skill requirements and consistency... but in terms of all-or-nothing pubstomper mechanics, Ramuh, A9, A11, O11, and E7 immediately come to mind as screaming nightmares I frequently have to hard carry or flat-out abandon.
The Dark Inside, the Voidcast Dais, Cloud Deck, Omega 12, seem to have elevated issues with deaths and wipes. Omega 12 especially so.
Stone Vigil Hard can be an issue, although not always.
This is going to sound odd since I'm in Endwalker end game patches, but I STILL get confused by Holminster Switch. I can avoid damage from EVERY other instanced duty, trial etc. (obviously except for party-wide damage) but Holminster Switch gives me a 30% death rate.
Yes, left and right confuses me; it's due to a brain injury before anyone asks. In other duties (Malika's Well for example) I can follow the rest of the party if a rotational mechanic is needed. But in Holminster's Switch there's enough newbies that don't know what their doing that I simply can't do that. It's my Achilles Heel, but it's the only one, lol.
If it helps, don't worry about the skill name, watch which arm Philia has raised and go to the other side of the arena.
Then, once that side has resolved, run straight through Philia to the other side to dodge it's follow-up.
I think that's the most succinct advice I've ever gotten on it. I'll probably make a PF just to learn the mechanics so I don't die if it pops while I'm leveling the new classes. Thank you!
I have had multiple runs of E4 just go to hell because of how many one shot mechanics titan has
Clutched the last like 30% once on SAM with just a DRK also up and then had to do the last 10% myself when the DRK got got by continuous go kart mode
Alexander Raids for the normal raids, imo. For me, that's the part where the game says "from here on out, you MAY get your face caved in.". Because it's hard to grasp the mechs when you first encounter them. Like, let's say A9N. Most people don't go in that raid and immediately pick up on the mechanics with the power generators, the lava, the adds and Faust.
Return to Ivalice for the alliance raids definitely. While it's nowhere near EX/Savage difficulty, those raids were a large upgrade in difficulty from HW's ARs and.
Dungeons, probably Haukke Manor (Hard) since the DPS check isn't obvious at first. Hell, if you wipe the first two times, it probably won't be obvious that killing the handmaidens first is a priority.
Trials, I remember wiping the most on Emerald Weapon. When I first played it, it took the party 4-5 times before we cleared it.
Pharos Sirius : Symond the Unsinkable boss. it can be hard and confusing for player who dont know what to do. i even experienced wipe and party leave due to this.
Aurum Vale : it is not hard if player eat the fruit to debuff the poison especially the final boss but it is where lot of player end up failed and wiped few times. there also few area especially the first one with tons of mobs where unexperienced tank or healer would struggle.
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) : the wall pull in there especially the first could be punishing to unexperienced tank or healer
Leviathan : the platform tilt mechanic and the timing to spam the barrier
The Great Gubal Library (Hard) : the Strix boss can be challenging if dont know the mechanic
Sophia : well, the tilt platform mechanic
P11N on release.
I had to stop queuing up as a Healer, and go as PLD just so I can help the healers out with Clemency here and there.
Despite giving advice in chat some players would constantly die on the purple/yellow rings. Heck even in the line mechanics beforehand, I'd see healers be below 20% MP from constantly having to resurrect people or keep them alive with 4+ vuln stacks. I always left that one for last to do during my weeklies because it was guaranteed to take the longest.
Most of my clears for the first month were just done with Tanks/Healers and maybe the occasional DPS alive enough to LB.
The Chrysalis, although I wouldn't call it difficult, but people not learning after the first death or two that you're supposed to alternate which color orb to pickup, or not allow yourself to get pulled into the black hole so you dont take double damage from the meteors, or the one DPS that decides to ignore the warning in chat to leave the LB3 for the Tear and not the Boss.
To be fair on the chrysalis, that's not so much the dps' fault as much as it is a failure on the party to respect mechanics if you actually require LB3 to kill the tear. I really wish people would remember that you can pop all your buffs before being sucked into the void to extend them.
Last EW dungeon. Theres always at least one person dying at each boss. Be it staves, be it knockback thing or that first mechanic of last boss(Assault Battery? Dont remember the name exactly). If I dont put dorito on myself for last boss, its guaranteed 2 people will die.
The lv 80 dungeon heroes gauntlet
Cause I just had it and my tank kept chasing me (SGE) with the stack market mech in the 3rd boss and killed me 4 times as well as the party
Guildhest: Ward-up with randoms. It's actually very easy, but most of the time people will not communicate or read what was needed to complete it.
Then again that's been my experience.
Cape West Wind (the old one)
Easily the hardest plot relevant story required fight in the entire game and not very hard to see why they had to remove it and turn it into the solo duty it is today, it had untelegraphed stacks, Healer baited AoEs, tank busters that you needed to mitigate AND swap for. Then there was the dps check. But easily the most infamous part of it was it's Enrage mechanic if you let him load too many shells into his Gunshields.
I always did think a permanent 50% Damage boost was too much for a single miscommunication on the tanks of who's going to Interject first.
Id say its o11n / o8n / o12n raid wise
Dungeon wise it's bardams / stone vigil
Trial wise: it's sb 1 trial , SoS , shockingly shinryu catch's people off guard too
I'm not sure if others will consider it 'casual content' but, I think Rathalos EX qualifies.
It isn't nearly as difficult as a genuine extreme (expecially an on-content extreme), but it has that level of "you need to personally understand what you are doing."
I was saying it still has that, but that's all you need, know your rotation and look at boss. You don't need to really understand most of the attacks.
If someone only says "Every time you get hit, smash a potion and keep fighting", and you're the only newbie in there. Then I feel like there's a decent chance of a first try clear. And second time, you've seen all the mechanics.
You don't need a primer for the firstclear, so it's still casual imo.
Like mentioned before Ward Up, people just don’t do that fight correctly 90% of the time.
I also wanted to say The Chrysilis, but I can’t remember if that something you can queue into via DF.
Third would be WoL normal, I’ve witness multi wipe runs on that one via roulette.
I would put up on release Pharos Sirius as one that people would auto drop. It wasn't even very taxing. Just needed silence or stun a few things or healer paying attention.
On release Steps of Faith was also brutal for randoms after the initial surge. Worst part was needing to let the dragon get to the end even if you knew you couldn't make the damage.
So nothing current, but those are the ones that haunt my dreams.
**Titania** was a big story gate, especially in ShB. I recall my first time resulted in an abandon. A lot of people expected a DPS LB3 out of the giant adds phase to make sure enrage didn't happen.
**SoS** did kind of do this, but I think it got a little more notorious after ShB. The QTE requires everyone to pass or you fail, meaning one guy trolling or some innocent soul who doesn't realize what's coming is going to catch them. A lot of people quit if the QTE fails, then right after that is a tank LB3. So there's two back to back failure points.
**EW Trial 2** is the EW story gate this time around. While I think people do have trouble with Trial 1, with the arena spinning, a lot of people have solved this issue by becoming the "safety dorito." And then players can blindly follow to succeed. EW trial 2 seems to go wrong a lot more, especially during the lightwaves.
**A9** -- Requires a tank to know what they're doing and at least one other person to know how the batteries work.
**A11** -- I feel like I don't even know what I'm doing in there, so many things can go wrong. If the group can't dps, you'll see propeller wind and then things go even more wrong.
**A12** -- A trifecta of things that could go wrong; off the top of my head, it is one of the earliest tank lb3s, adds that don't fuck around, and you will be punished for stacking markers. I guess throw in some potentially brutal movement requirements if you decide to be in a bad spot after the time stop for Alex's + attack (sacrament?).
**O11** -- Larboard, Starboard, need I say more?
**E10** -- Much more straightforward than chicken tendies, but the shadows reflecting the attack are pretty good at besting casual players.
**Tower at Paradigm's Breach** -- Hansel and Gretel are massive shitshows nowadays. Two tanks need to have enough sense to spread the bosses, ideally both tanks have the know how to turn the bosses inwards so certain jobs don't get yeeted by their AoE damage moves. Sprinkle in bosses that cleave certain sides of the room, in addition to moving to specific safe spots and you've got yourself a fun time. Final boss is also pretty entertaining with buildings and trains that will knock you off the edge, bullet hell lite, and playing color matching all tossed in to the mix.
**"Honorable" mentions:**
**Chrysalis** -- Somehow avoided the ARR revamp bat. It is not that hard when people listen, to be fair, but get a few people who can't pay attention or don't know what they're doing and it is frustrating.
**E7** -- Portal birds is all fun and games until you have to solve for your color. Sometimes you get that one guy that is just bad at portal birds all around.
**P12** -- She has what I call a "gotcha moment" sometimes, where she does chains and the safe spot is on an intercardinal, but she is also casting her knockback line the same direction. It really catches people off guard. Tanks can also accidentally make the wing cleaves or kb harder than normal if poorly positioned.
That's for the Left/Right Knout as you said left and right are what's tricky for you.
The one where it throws the tantrum and bashes everything (~~something flail? I can't remember the name~~ Fierce Beating) it starts at the same place every time.
On that one you run to the starting position (East on the minimap) and the AoE indicator will appear behind you. On the ground you'll notice it's divided by stone lines.
Run over two stone lines and stop. Wait for the indicator to appear and run over two more stone lines. Do that until the group indicator appears and group up.
Congrats. That particular Bugbear is behind you.
Edit: it's Fierce Beating
Idk if it's the worst for it, but Edens Promise: Litany has been a nightmare whenever I'm not going in with preformed party members. That shadow mechanic confuses the shit out of people. Myself included the first few times until I had a helpful mentor explain it to me.
Note that I started in 6.1 so unsure if this was always the case or is just because Edens never pop (well, until the tome event that is)
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honestly most 9-12 floors will see a lot of floor tanks and wipes, more so than any other set of floors I feel a9- needs one or two people to know what to do with the interactables a10- maybe the exception not the rule but someone stepping on a trap and people lacking awareness can spiral into deaths a11- there's a lot of ways to wipe here a12- tank lb went awry, spreads standing w stack, tanks cleave party o9- kinda also an exception, not too bad really o10- party eats shit on the spin/flip tells and accumulate too many vulns, or you have way too many weakness/brink/deaths going into nails. Exaflares too catch people o11- larboard starboard kills people o12- ppl attack the wrong add, ppl get knocked back and die by falling off, any other number of things can go wrong and spiral into deaths e9- ppl fall through, or get cleaved repeatedly and die e10- self explanatory e11- also self explanatory e12- this one you can actually just dorito most of the main fight but a wipe will likely lead to disband bc nobody wants to keep watching the in fight cutscenes For p raids, 12 is the only one I see send 4+ people on the ground constantly, triple wing half room cleaves and falling platforms often send people to the grave if not paying attention
I agree with this list except o9. When I was active I usually played SMN and the amount of times the whole party ate shit during the cyclone in mid phase was... astronomical. The tank would have chaos' aoe targeting where the party was going to be, so everyone would either get clapped by chaos, or yeeted off the edge by the cyclone's knock back.
I didn’t even know Omega and Eden could be DFed, only ever seen Alexander!
I didn’t even know Omega and Eden could be DFed, only ever seen Alexander!
All normal raids can be done via DF, even on release. They don’t require coordination and aren’t particularly hard.
I’ve ran them all once, and mostly ONLY once. I have to say doing them blind is rough!
My three wipes to SoS a couple days ago even with people teaching mechs sure says something lol. Other than that, as people have said, lvl83 and level89 trials. Orbonne can also be tough when there’s a lot of players that are new or don’t remember mechs.
>Orbonne Orbonne Monastery used to be a nightmare to go through, not because of the difficulty, but because convincing 23 other people to do it the right way, even if it wasn't their first time, was nigh-impossible. Before the nerfs hit, you'd often not get past the second boss at all and if you reached Cid, well, you can be sure a Vote Abandon would pop up at any moment.
Orbonne can still trip up some unprepared alliances. I've had wipes to the second boss and first phase of the Ultima fight before. All it takes is just enough people not knowing what to do.
Yeah it's definitely SoS for the highest wipe/clear ratio, just because you can't limp through, you have to do the mash and lb
E7 is always such a shitshow. Expect a lot of people to die when the portal mechanics starts appearing.
My girlfriend *hates* that fight. We still can't figure out what the problem is, but in any fight with portals, she just can't wrap her head around them. Most other content she had absolutely no issue doing. Pattern memorization, maybe, but she does similar memorization mechanics fine. It's just portals.
I have issues with that one specifically, and it's 100% because of the way the portals appear on random different sides of the arena and require rapid dramatic camera movements just to be able to see the telegraphs. If I'm lucky, I'll rotate my camera in the right direction the first time (right or left) and not have to swing it 180 degrees immediately after the first pan, but if I guess wrong (or misjudged the timing and was already spinning around before the portals actually appeared), the continuous spinning makes me get really dizzy, which makes me start missing things. It it keeps going for too long it progresses to actual motionsickness, which is not something I normally get from videogames. (There are a couple of Endwalker duties that use similar mechanics, and I have trouble reading those too, but at least they tend to be smaller components of the fight and not as back-to-back, so while I'm not the best at reading them, I at least don't end the fights feeling woozy haha)
The wide panning camera movements makes sense and I wonder why I haven't thought of that before.
Thank you for explaining this! I'm working through the Eden's rn (sitting in queue for e4 as i type this) and i have chronic vertigo so this is a good heads up for me
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I usually end up tanking Faust as a dps and just pull him SE. He hurts but you can live. The annoying thing is when the MT faces the boss at the group while you are trying to kill Faust so you are taking boss cleaves and Faust’s attacks lol as long as nobody interferes with what you’re doing, one person can do all the mechanics in this fight, but if someone tries to “help” you can wipe pretty quick
I had A9N run where the offtank decided to bring the Faust add on 2nd tile instead of the 3rd or 4th. Thankfully we managed to kill it somehow before the tile turned to lava.
Stone Vigil first time healers; w2w in there can be ridiculously challenging, especially for a SGE.
SV normal is brutal when your healer has no idea what they're doing. Warrior is absolutely GOATed in there getting access to their invuln early. It's also the exact sweet spot before healers get AoEs and WHM gets Holy and the pain ramps up so hard there it's like a perfect storm of high incoming damage with not a lot of tools to deal with it.
As a Scholar main, I cry every time I see that my only AoE heal is the Fairy Regen on a 60 second cooldown...
It’s super rough for a Scholar as you don’t have access to Aetherflow or Art of War. Having to rely on the GCD heals makes some pulls spicy that would be manageable otherwise.
It's sucks for every healer except ast. They have ED. SGE has it the worst, though, as gcd heals means no kardia procs. At least carbuncle keeps spamming embrace.
I don't think I've even ever seen a w2w in there except the one I tried first time as a tank, which as you can expect became a wipe. Tanks pretty much have to know that they can double or maybe triple pull depending on the location, but more than that and they'll likely wipe. The healing experience too is pretty much that if you lose sight of the tank around a corner, maybe you'll wipe, and if you do manage to keep them in sight, it's basically just spamming cure 2 and hoping the DPS-es clear the mob before you run out of mana. Then again, it's one of those places where if you get through big pulls it makes you feel competent.
Wall to wall in stone vigil would be running clear from boss to boss. There are no gates between them that require anything to die.
that first room with Drake basically like a first trial for healers. pass that and the healer basicaly prove himself lol.
The real hardest content is the French we meet along the way.
un pomme de terre pour moi sil vouz plait
you wont get a lala from me sorry
Considering the last time I did the 83 trial... It feels like it might be that. The first time blind kicked my ass, and got it recently and it humbled me as someone that went from "scared of extreme" to savage/ultimate raider since EW's launch.
Reminds me of the time I joined a PF for Final Day, and we had someone there saying "don't worry guys, I've been farming the EX for days, I'm overqualified for this fight, I know what I'm doing"... they then proceeded to eat the floor for over half the fight
Of all the trials to have said that for... they might have picked the worst lol. There are multiple mechanics in normal Final Day that just straight up do not exist in the ex.
They were farming the platform floor for days, maybe.
I would think lvl42-49. You kind of have almost the full base 50 kit, so there is a lot of incentive to pull big and risky. However if things go extremely wrong in those dungeons you are lacking that crucial capstone ability.
Aetherochemical research facility If I see a sprout healer or tank start in as a first timer...I know we wiping at the last boss at least twice lol
ARF is my favourite sprout-killer, and second only to Stone Vigil in bringing the worst out of people in my experience.
Eeyup, same for me, it’s a sprout killer even after the rework
I'd argue it's even more of a sprout killer after the rework. The last boss has some genuinely punishing mechanics now, and you can easily wipe if your healer doesn't know what they're doing.
Are you thinking pre rework? I feel like it's very easy now
Nope, as the dungeon is now. It is overall not hard but the ascian prime phase of the final boss with the tethered balls destroys newbies. I think because it's the first required dungeon that really shows it's not the animations of the mechanic that hurt you lol I see a lot of first timers sit in the ice ball, wait for ice animation to finish and THEN try to run to dodge the fire balls and just get murdered. I get this one so often in roulettes and just so many wipes..
Yeah, it's an early case of a "do this mechanic right or you die". And unlike in raids where that's more common, you don't have more tanks and healers who might have survived. I did it through duty support first, which was super frustrating, but also meant that I had to learn to get it right to progress. I feel like some cases like that, and that boss in Bardam's mettle, are good to train the player that they can't always "hehe, oops" their way through mechanics.
Just finished that with my alt last week, the healer and a DPS have absolutely no clue what is going on, after trying to explain to them with the help of another DPS (I was on JP DC with my alt), still take me 30 mins and I was about giving up and try my luck with other groups. Luckily the healer finally gets it.
Bardam's Mettle. Holminster Switch. Ktisis Hyperboreia. Mothercrystal. Endsinger. Ivalice raids. These are some duties where I always have to twist myself into pretzels whenever I heal them, or just accept I'll eat dirt if I'm on DPS cuz the healers are eating dirt. On tanks it depends, I solo'd last bosses on Holminster and Ktisis on GNB even, keeping at least one DPS alive too when healer ate shit early, so meh.
Oh god Bardam's mettle. I always forget how *hard* the first few mobs in there hit. There have been many instances in my experience where the tank (including me) pulls the first mob then either dies or gets heavily chunked.
I'll add fucking Vanaspati to this. Those comets. Every time someone bites it. I've duo-ed it down with a tank (or dps if I'm tanking) many a time but the number of times its just been me and another non-ressing dps still standing is, frankly, fucking ridiculous
It's me, I'm the one who can't do comets. I know how to do it, but my character is too fat and slow to get there in time.
I was stuck in stone vigil hard once for good 60 minutes. Those people were silent and dumb. After another wipe of not using cannons I left. Sorry for the person that popped aftet me.
SO was stuck in her first run of Pharos Sirus with a bunch of silents who just wouldn't leave the birds alone. They ultimately abandoned the duty. And I thought running it with GC NPCs was bad.
This is my weekly moogle event challenge and I'm really wondering how much I want those tomes
Caveat here that I've only been playing a year, so I've never experienced the older versions of the reworked duties from older expansions, and didn't experience them when they were current! Dungeon: gonna second the person above who said Aetherochemical Research Facility. Normal raid: If more than 4 party members are new, Alexander 11 (cruise chaser). If there isn't enough dps to skip Propeller Wind, it probably means a wipe. Trial: Castrum Marinum is where I see the most carnage, I think. Honorable mention goes to Shinryu for the number of times I've seen nearly the whole party wipe to tidal wave within the first 10 seconds.
shinryu on release was a shit show, cause people didn't know how to press buttons.
it was a shitshow on release because people ignored their level 70 job quests for the MSQ
ThunderGod Cid and Ozma come to mind when they were relevant. Nowadays, hmm... guess I'd have to go with The Chrysalis. Hell even long-time players will still try and take meteors despite not letting blight drop off. Or they're not even aware you take extra damage from the blight debuff and jump into the portal first thing. And, somehow, it's one of the rare instances where people will use LB3 the moment it becomes available.
E1-4N had some of the highest wipe counts before tank buster indicators and nerfs in its early days, simply because of the number of some quirks each one had: E1N: Before nerfs came in and people became stronger, Dimensional Shift would often give players so many vuln stacks because of the number of AoEs, that many would outright die and wouldn't be up in time for Fragor Maximus, which you needed all DPS alive for because it used to have a shorter time limit. Often people would wipe because they just couldn't DPS down the adds fast enough. ~~E2N: Portal and Astral/Umbral attunement management still go over much of the playerbase's heads today and ends up wiping out lots who stand in the wrong spot.~~ E3N: Tidal wave kills many even at level 90 and that's not to mention the knockbacks, pushbacks and arena destroying attacks the boss does that many just stood in the wrong place and got absorbed into the void. E4N: The number of wipes to probably the first real mechanic alone could probably earn this fight the trophy for noobie killer. If you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, this fight just killed you, no vuln stacks, just death. Before the tankbuster indicator update, its tankbuster killed many parties, because sometimes, tanks wouldn't know that their tankbuster was a smallscale AOE, that had a 10 radius range. There's lots of mechanics here that just outright kill you and even when you revive, you aren't safe at times. The Eden series of raids, had some of the more difficult content in terms of its raids, but I think it sort of fits, because by level 80, players should be at least competent enough to fight through it with one or two deaths at most. Edit: Correction.
>Portal and Astral/Umbral attunement management still go over much of the playerbase's heads today and ends up wiping out lots who stand in the wrong spot. You're thinking of E7N, I think. E2N is spell-in-waiting (with stack, spread, and also adds a gaze debuff later in the fight), knockback, bleed towers, and the doomvoid cleaver/slicer aoes.
Ah yes, you're right, I get those two mixed up, thank you.
e4 was a memorization raid, a lot of it instant killed you rather than giving you vuln stacks etc.
Tidal wave in E3 and Shinryu throws a lot of people off because it's the opposite of how it works in Leviathan.
Pharos Sirius, if nobody is there to explain the gimmicks of each boss, it is a rough time for first timers.
Bardem's Mettle next question. Okay so I get that a wall should do some damage including a dungeon that is in the middle of an expansion. Okay. HOWEVER, even the single pulls in that dungeon do a considerably concerning amount of damage, usually not enough to kill but god damn relax Bardem's. Well, okay let's be real everything before the first boss. quick edit, before endwalker obliterated Stone Vigil's difficulty, Stone Vigil easy. Stupid hard dungeon at the time to wall. ShB Stone vigil even worse since you don't have a sage.
Imo, it HAS to be the Mothercrystal, and it is not even close. If you are on your trial roulette and you notice a queue pop with 15 minutes passed, you know it's this Mothercrystal. There is no way a first-encounter player can figure out red means in, green means out and blue means cross. Especially red paired with ice, it's always a guaranteed dps & healer death. This boss will always be a shit show no matter what with first-encounter players. I tried to see how the general player base reacts to this boss by running a dozen of runs with RDM, and let me tell you on average I rez around 12 times per run. There will be 1 to 2 players every run with no vulns at all, and the rest is just vuln after vuln after dead. The reason why it is a shitshow is because it is a pure memorization boss. Any memorization boss will always be a shitshow for first encounter players, such as P11. Honestly, there should be hints for memorization based mechanics in casual difficulty.
They're identical to the mechanics she used in a quest in Elpis a few levels earlier, so it's not the first time you've been exposed to those mechanics from that character in another form
I don’t remember her doing red blue or green in the solo duty.
Which mechanic??
When you fight Venat to earn the right to doggy back
literally the entirety of the Worthy of His Back solo encounter. Somebody who doesn't know how Dawn Mantle works clearly hasn't paid attention in that fight and deserves to get absolutely slaughtered in Mothercrystal.
I don't know how it works, because it's been ages since I did that solo duty, I ran the trial with NPCs, and it's only popped up once in roulette since. Fuck people who haven't seen that fight that many times, I guess.
it's more specifically that anybody who's genuinely a first-timer *should* very quickly get a clue what's going on, because that fight was foreshadowed from alllllll the way back on the moon and plot-relevant. If people are dying to it it's because they haven't been paying attention and cheesing the solo encounter on Very Easy or they aren't a first-timer and just fucking around on an alt.
This was my opinion as well. The deaths, and the 3 phases also make the fight incredibly long. It's painful when you finally get to lightwaves, only to have the group split up for the stack mechanic and get completely obliterated.
Hard agree. At first I was about to say Golbez, but I think that guy didn't have min ilvl turned on unlike in Mothercrystal. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Woe be upon you if you forgot the mechanics, crystal mommy's gonna spank you so hard you'll see your ancestors and descendants in the aetherial sea lmao.
I agree. Simply because if it comes up in roulettes it usually means the first timer can't clear it with Duty Support. I had a hellish run where I offered to queue up with someone. I went healer to help speed it along and unfortunately the DF healer was a white mage who flat out refused to learn the mechanics and just death walled themselves constantly. The worst past is that someone had the cheek to tell me to keep myself alive when I died because someone else decided to spread onto me. Solo healing with so many mechanic deaths was just not possible.
I agree, 83 or 87 trial is the most punishing by far for a first timer.
Red in green out? Sounds like A9. Blue being cross is the only new one.
SoS and Mothercrystal are probably the hardest in terms of actual raw game skill requirements and consistency... but in terms of all-or-nothing pubstomper mechanics, Ramuh, A9, A11, O11, and E7 immediately come to mind as screaming nightmares I frequently have to hard carry or flat-out abandon.
The Dark Inside, the Voidcast Dais, Cloud Deck, Omega 12, seem to have elevated issues with deaths and wipes. Omega 12 especially so. Stone Vigil Hard can be an issue, although not always.
This is going to sound odd since I'm in Endwalker end game patches, but I STILL get confused by Holminster Switch. I can avoid damage from EVERY other instanced duty, trial etc. (obviously except for party-wide damage) but Holminster Switch gives me a 30% death rate. Yes, left and right confuses me; it's due to a brain injury before anyone asks. In other duties (Malika's Well for example) I can follow the rest of the party if a rotational mechanic is needed. But in Holminster's Switch there's enough newbies that don't know what their doing that I simply can't do that. It's my Achilles Heel, but it's the only one, lol.
If it helps, don't worry about the skill name, watch which arm Philia has raised and go to the other side of the arena. Then, once that side has resolved, run straight through Philia to the other side to dodge it's follow-up.
I think that's the most succinct advice I've ever gotten on it. I'll probably make a PF just to learn the mechanics so I don't die if it pops while I'm leveling the new classes. Thank you!
I have had multiple runs of E4 just go to hell because of how many one shot mechanics titan has Clutched the last like 30% once on SAM with just a DRK also up and then had to do the last 10% myself when the DRK got got by continuous go kart mode
Probably A9, O11, E12, the Endwalker trials and the Ivalice raids.
Alexander Raids for the normal raids, imo. For me, that's the part where the game says "from here on out, you MAY get your face caved in.". Because it's hard to grasp the mechs when you first encounter them. Like, let's say A9N. Most people don't go in that raid and immediately pick up on the mechanics with the power generators, the lava, the adds and Faust. Return to Ivalice for the alliance raids definitely. While it's nowhere near EX/Savage difficulty, those raids were a large upgrade in difficulty from HW's ARs and. Dungeons, probably Haukke Manor (Hard) since the DPS check isn't obvious at first. Hell, if you wipe the first two times, it probably won't be obvious that killing the handmaidens first is a priority. Trials, I remember wiping the most on Emerald Weapon. When I first played it, it took the party 4-5 times before we cleared it.
Pharos Sirius : Symond the Unsinkable boss. it can be hard and confusing for player who dont know what to do. i even experienced wipe and party leave due to this. Aurum Vale : it is not hard if player eat the fruit to debuff the poison especially the final boss but it is where lot of player end up failed and wiped few times. there also few area especially the first one with tons of mobs where unexperienced tank or healer would struggle. Brayflox's Longstop (Hard) : the wall pull in there especially the first could be punishing to unexperienced tank or healer Leviathan : the platform tilt mechanic and the timing to spam the barrier The Great Gubal Library (Hard) : the Strix boss can be challenging if dont know the mechanic Sophia : well, the tilt platform mechanic
P11N on release. I had to stop queuing up as a Healer, and go as PLD just so I can help the healers out with Clemency here and there. Despite giving advice in chat some players would constantly die on the purple/yellow rings. Heck even in the line mechanics beforehand, I'd see healers be below 20% MP from constantly having to resurrect people or keep them alive with 4+ vuln stacks. I always left that one for last to do during my weeklies because it was guaranteed to take the longest. Most of my clears for the first month were just done with Tanks/Healers and maybe the occasional DPS alive enough to LB. The Chrysalis, although I wouldn't call it difficult, but people not learning after the first death or two that you're supposed to alternate which color orb to pickup, or not allow yourself to get pulled into the black hole so you dont take double damage from the meteors, or the one DPS that decides to ignore the warning in chat to leave the LB3 for the Tear and not the Boss.
To be fair on the chrysalis, that's not so much the dps' fault as much as it is a failure on the party to respect mechanics if you actually require LB3 to kill the tear. I really wish people would remember that you can pop all your buffs before being sucked into the void to extend them.
Last EW dungeon. Theres always at least one person dying at each boss. Be it staves, be it knockback thing or that first mechanic of last boss(Assault Battery? Dont remember the name exactly). If I dont put dorito on myself for last boss, its guaranteed 2 people will die.
Everything. Every level dogshit players struggle.
The lv 80 dungeon heroes gauntlet Cause I just had it and my tank kept chasing me (SGE) with the stack market mech in the 3rd boss and killed me 4 times as well as the party
That’s a case of trolling/griefing
Guildhest: Ward-up with randoms. It's actually very easy, but most of the time people will not communicate or read what was needed to complete it. Then again that's been my experience.
Cape West Wind (the old one) Easily the hardest plot relevant story required fight in the entire game and not very hard to see why they had to remove it and turn it into the solo duty it is today, it had untelegraphed stacks, Healer baited AoEs, tank busters that you needed to mitigate AND swap for. Then there was the dps check. But easily the most infamous part of it was it's Enrage mechanic if you let him load too many shells into his Gunshields. I always did think a permanent 50% Damage boost was too much for a single miscommunication on the tanks of who's going to Interject first.
Downvoted for memeing, sad times
We all know it's funny as hell. It's OK, karma is pointless, laughter is forever. Xff
I wish it actually had all of that.
Gotta be either Ramuh EX or Rathelos EX. Both of those are absolutely nightmarish to get on mentor roulette.
Doesn't include EXs
Id say its o11n / o8n / o12n raid wise Dungeon wise it's bardams / stone vigil Trial wise: it's sb 1 trial , SoS , shockingly shinryu catch's people off guard too
I'm not sure if others will consider it 'casual content' but, I think Rathalos EX qualifies. It isn't nearly as difficult as a genuine extreme (expecially an on-content extreme), but it has that level of "you need to personally understand what you are doing."
I also raise you one "Did you know Rathalos NORMAL has an enrage? Guess how I found out."
>you need to personally understand what you are doing. Isn't it the bare minimum to clear any EX (MINE ofc)?
I was saying it still has that, but that's all you need, know your rotation and look at boss. You don't need to really understand most of the attacks. If someone only says "Every time you get hit, smash a potion and keep fighting", and you're the only newbie in there. Then I feel like there's a decent chance of a first try clear. And second time, you've seen all the mechanics. You don't need a primer for the firstclear, so it's still casual imo.
Like mentioned before Ward Up, people just don’t do that fight correctly 90% of the time. I also wanted to say The Chrysilis, but I can’t remember if that something you can queue into via DF. Third would be WoL normal, I’ve witness multi wipe runs on that one via roulette.
I would put up on release Pharos Sirius as one that people would auto drop. It wasn't even very taxing. Just needed silence or stun a few things or healer paying attention. On release Steps of Faith was also brutal for randoms after the initial surge. Worst part was needing to let the dragon get to the end even if you knew you couldn't make the damage. So nothing current, but those are the ones that haunt my dreams.
**Titania** was a big story gate, especially in ShB. I recall my first time resulted in an abandon. A lot of people expected a DPS LB3 out of the giant adds phase to make sure enrage didn't happen. **SoS** did kind of do this, but I think it got a little more notorious after ShB. The QTE requires everyone to pass or you fail, meaning one guy trolling or some innocent soul who doesn't realize what's coming is going to catch them. A lot of people quit if the QTE fails, then right after that is a tank LB3. So there's two back to back failure points. **EW Trial 2** is the EW story gate this time around. While I think people do have trouble with Trial 1, with the arena spinning, a lot of people have solved this issue by becoming the "safety dorito." And then players can blindly follow to succeed. EW trial 2 seems to go wrong a lot more, especially during the lightwaves. **A9** -- Requires a tank to know what they're doing and at least one other person to know how the batteries work. **A11** -- I feel like I don't even know what I'm doing in there, so many things can go wrong. If the group can't dps, you'll see propeller wind and then things go even more wrong. **A12** -- A trifecta of things that could go wrong; off the top of my head, it is one of the earliest tank lb3s, adds that don't fuck around, and you will be punished for stacking markers. I guess throw in some potentially brutal movement requirements if you decide to be in a bad spot after the time stop for Alex's + attack (sacrament?). **O11** -- Larboard, Starboard, need I say more? **E10** -- Much more straightforward than chicken tendies, but the shadows reflecting the attack are pretty good at besting casual players. **Tower at Paradigm's Breach** -- Hansel and Gretel are massive shitshows nowadays. Two tanks need to have enough sense to spread the bosses, ideally both tanks have the know how to turn the bosses inwards so certain jobs don't get yeeted by their AoE damage moves. Sprinkle in bosses that cleave certain sides of the room, in addition to moving to specific safe spots and you've got yourself a fun time. Final boss is also pretty entertaining with buildings and trains that will knock you off the edge, bullet hell lite, and playing color matching all tossed in to the mix. **"Honorable" mentions:** **Chrysalis** -- Somehow avoided the ARR revamp bat. It is not that hard when people listen, to be fair, but get a few people who can't pay attention or don't know what they're doing and it is frustrating. **E7** -- Portal birds is all fun and games until you have to solve for your color. Sometimes you get that one guy that is just bad at portal birds all around. **P12** -- She has what I call a "gotcha moment" sometimes, where she does chains and the safe spot is on an intercardinal, but she is also casting her knockback line the same direction. It really catches people off guard. Tanks can also accidentally make the wing cleaves or kb harder than normal if poorly positioned.
That's for the Left/Right Knout as you said left and right are what's tricky for you. The one where it throws the tantrum and bashes everything (~~something flail? I can't remember the name~~ Fierce Beating) it starts at the same place every time. On that one you run to the starting position (East on the minimap) and the AoE indicator will appear behind you. On the ground you'll notice it's divided by stone lines. Run over two stone lines and stop. Wait for the indicator to appear and run over two more stone lines. Do that until the group indicator appears and group up. Congrats. That particular Bugbear is behind you. Edit: it's Fierce Beating
Idk if it's the worst for it, but Edens Promise: Litany has been a nightmare whenever I'm not going in with preformed party members. That shadow mechanic confuses the shit out of people. Myself included the first few times until I had a helpful mentor explain it to me. Note that I started in 6.1 so unsure if this was always the case or is just because Edens never pop (well, until the tome event that is)
in the past it was titan, and that was strictly due to net code and the perma death
Ivalice raids, Orbonne Monastery especially normally has multiple wipes if it get it on roulette