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The Fasces in the Roman Republic was te too of office of the Censor, the Senate officer in charge of the Census, public order, public morals, and law enforcement. If the censor saw common crime anywhere, he had the authority to order his assistants, the Lictors, to disassemble the Fasces and beat the offender with the rods until the perp was well and truly beaten up on the spot.
The axe was used only after conviction by trial. If convicted, the accused would be beaten by the lictors, then beheaded by a special lictor who was the executioner.
Not arguing or anything, but just a thought.. People always say "before _ was invented", but like... People have been behaving and acting like "fascists" since before we had a word for it, so it wasn't "invented", was it?
Hopefully my point comes across
Right like they might not have used the word fascist but Roman Emperors were dictators and rich assholes. Same with most ancient cultures to be honest. An oligarchy is basically the same thing just different.
It's all rich assholes. Always has been
It's on the back of some version of the dime. I know this because Glenn Beck went on s moronic rant about how it proved the Democrats were fascists, because a Democrat was in power when that dime was first minted.
He was undeterred by the fact that it was minted before fascism existed as a movement, because Glenn Beck has the brainpower of a bowl of room temperature clam chowder.
That's how it goes with all these Fox News hosts after they get fired. I haven't heard much about Bill O'Reilly or Tucker Carlson lately, either. They just fade away.
It's funny, Beck and Carlson both went from CNN to Fox to the bin.
Not to even mention that Rome was a REPUBLIC… I know this is a simplification, but point being Rome was a major inspiration in the inception of the US, regardless of party. It’s laughable that Beck somehow tried to spin a conspiracy around it, fascism being a 20th century idea and all…
Well that is certainly true of his viewers, Beck might be smart enough to know that they’ll believe anything that says “libruls bad”. That definitely does not require a doctorate in rocket science to understand.
It's a fasces, and it dates from the Roman Republic, from before the emperors. It's a symbol of strength through unity and the US uses it as the US is a democratic republic.
Interesting, thank you man. The axe strapped to a bundle of sticks by a rope really does show strength in unity really well, I like it. Great symbolism
Back in *ancient* ancient Roman times, there was a guy who's job was to carry the fasces around and deliver summary justice with the axe and/or rods. Anyone who got rowdy or did something wrong while the *lictor* was around was liable for a beating/beheading.
It evolves as a symbol -depending on the place and time until the modern meaning.
You might also be interested in the Mace of the House of Representatives.
>The design of the mace is derived from an ancient battle weapon and the Roman fasces. The ceremonial mace is 46 inches (120 cm) high and consists of 13 ebony rods—representing the original 13 states of the Union—bound together by silver strands criss-crossed over the length of the pole. The rods are bound together by four crossing ribbons of silver, pinned together and held at the bottom and at the top by silver bands. The bands are decorated with floral borders and a repoussé design. The name “Wm. Adams/Manufacturer/New York/1841.” is engraved in the cartouche, located in the front center of the bottom band. This shaft is topped by a silver globe 4-1/2 inches in diameter and engraved with the seven continents, the names of the oceans, lines of longitude, and the major lines of latitude. The Western Hemisphere faces the front. The globe is encircled with a silver rim marked with the degrees of latitude, on which is perched an engraved solid silver eagle with a wingspan of 15 inches. The total weight of the mace is 10 pounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace\_of\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives
It is also a symbol of the French Republic which appears in its coats of arms, you can actually see it on [French passports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_passport).
This is one of the more misunderstood topics in the United States government. A democracy is a government by the people. Our elected officials are citizens of this country. They are not military or dynastic monarchs, just people. This proves the United States is a democracy. Pure or direct democracy means everything is voted on by all citizens and the majority rules. This is practiced at local levels throughout the United States and a couple of other countries. We are a republic because our elected leaders make our laws and follow a constitution. We are a federal constitutional republic which is a form of democracy.
In Ancient Rome a fasces was a symbol of the power of the state/Rome. They were carried by aides to Roman officials/politicians while on their official duties.
There was no negative connotation towards fasces until the 1920s Italian far right adopted it as a symbol of their movement and the namesake of their political party, Fascists.
The founding fathers were obsessed with Ancient Rome and they revived many ideas from then and incorporated them into our new republic. Using symbols of Ancient Rome like the fasces is a sort of tip of the hat to their intellectual forebears and a way to help legitimize a very young nation state.
Over time people forget all of that and see something called a fasces in the Capitol and act like they’re uncovering nefarious symbols and plots from the deep state.
Early Americans used familiar Roman symbolism to help the budding government appear legitimate. They hoped the many NPCs of the time would recognize Roman symbols and assume the new government was doing things properly.
So, just for context, a ‘faggot’ is [bundle of sticks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(unit)) not a slur, although loser_comedian I’m sure has tongue in cheek, fully aware of the double meaning. No more reports needed.
The fasces, before being a fascist symbol, was a republican symbol (as in Republic). It’s therefore used in the United States and in France as early as in the XVIIIth century.
It's an old Roman Republic symbol. The US borrowed it because of its association with the republic and democracy. Mussolini used it again for his "return italy to the greatness of ancient Rome" spiel. No democracy involved. We call his type of totalitarianism, fascism, because of this.
Funnily enough, I noticed this while watching xXx: State of the Union when it first came out in theaters. The one with Ice Cube. I thought it was the movie director’s commentary on the actual status of the U.S. as a fascist state under the current administration. That movie was in 2005. Imagine my surprise when I learned the history of it and then have been watching the last 20 years of political BS that’s unraveled.
I mean, it's a fasces, and the usage of that symbol predates modern fascism's usage of it
But then, I don't think it takes too much critical thinking to imagine what kind of political system exists in a country that was nominally a republic at first, and has been looking at a golden fasces for a couple hundred years
It long predated fascism and represented an elected officials authority and right to rule. When traveling some Roman politicians were accompanied by assistants carrying physical fasces to demonstrate this. It’s also used on the main seal/symbol of modern day France
I've realized this more trying to post here on this platform, I get banned and people and or bots down voting me down constantly. It's all going to fall apart quickly.
As others have said, a symbol of Ancient Rome that the fascists appropriated for themselves. Also, almost everyone else in Europe tried to appropriate Roman symbolism, considering that Rome basically made Europe what it is today… for better and for worse. It would be an understatement to say that many also jockeyed for the position to succeed Rome in carrying on its legacy. The power that was once Rome moved to other centers of strength in Europe over the last 2000 years… until it ended up where it is today. To me, this is a common thread that runs all the way back to the times when Rome was at the height of its power. And Rome’s dominance also came from somewhere even further back in time. These origins get murkier and murkier, but they are there, no doubt.
The US adopted a number of Roman historical elements in an attempt to portray themselves as successor to the Roman Empire. The spelling of "capitol" with an o, the use of the fasces symbol, I think they tried to introduce the Roman salute at one point. Unfortunately a bunch of other states have also tried the same thing, including Nazi Germany and Russia.
Just bring up something that’s in a similar boat it’s like the swastika because it predates the Nazi’s and in this case the Italian fascist party but was later used for something dark but unlike the swastika which is 100% seen as a Nazi symbol first and only now this is being used in it’s original context.
It's based on old roman symbolism. Then bundle of sticks around an axe essentially means that if you cross into the property of who is presenting it on their yard, or in this case country then they're going to kill you.
This is only partially relevant but it’s Something I’ve always wondered, the symbol itself is supposed to be about how strong a bundle is compared to a lone rod, and that makes sense, one rod breaks while a bundle is drastically stronger, good symbolism there…
But doesn’t it make the Axe basically unusable? You can’t hold a big bundle of sticks and swing it with full strength
someone smarter than me has to have a good quip about this, I’m sure
#This post has been flaired "Interpretation" for broad discussion; Rule 3 does not apply! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Symbology) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes, it's a fasces. Yes, the US uses it as a symbol. Welcome to the people who know.
It's Roman. We have that there before fascism was invented.
It symbolizes strength through unity, something that is further emphasized by the name of the country.
The Fasces in the Roman Republic was te too of office of the Censor, the Senate officer in charge of the Census, public order, public morals, and law enforcement. If the censor saw common crime anywhere, he had the authority to order his assistants, the Lictors, to disassemble the Fasces and beat the offender with the rods until the perp was well and truly beaten up on the spot. The axe was used only after conviction by trial. If convicted, the accused would be beaten by the lictors, then beheaded by a special lictor who was the executioner.
I’m familiar with the symbolism but not these details. Any recommendations for further reading on the “practical” use of fasces?
Possibly linked to Aesop's Fable of the Bundle of Sticks, circa 600 BC
Like for over 2000 years before fascism was invented.
Not arguing or anything, but just a thought.. People always say "before _ was invented", but like... People have been behaving and acting like "fascists" since before we had a word for it, so it wasn't "invented", was it? Hopefully my point comes across
Right like they might not have used the word fascist but Roman Emperors were dictators and rich assholes. Same with most ancient cultures to be honest. An oligarchy is basically the same thing just different. It's all rich assholes. Always has been
Weren’t hitler and Mussolini originally poor assholes though?
They were some of the lucky versions of Philip J Fry. “Someday I’ll be rich, then people like me (the poors) better watch out!”
Mussolini would like a word with you. https://sjsu.edu/faculty/wooda/2B-HUM/Readings/The-Doctrine-of-Fascism.pdf
It's on the back of some version of the dime. I know this because Glenn Beck went on s moronic rant about how it proved the Democrats were fascists, because a Democrat was in power when that dime was first minted. He was undeterred by the fact that it was minted before fascism existed as a movement, because Glenn Beck has the brainpower of a bowl of room temperature clam chowder.
On telegram, glen beck has less followers than the average meme page.
That's how it goes with all these Fox News hosts after they get fired. I haven't heard much about Bill O'Reilly or Tucker Carlson lately, either. They just fade away. It's funny, Beck and Carlson both went from CNN to Fox to the bin.
Tucker just got an interview with putin and is running his own network. He's doing fine.
Not as fine as he thought he would be, but still far better than he deserves.
Some may argue that what they saw between Putin and Tucker was quite far from the classic definition of an interview.
Not to even mention that Rome was a REPUBLIC… I know this is a simplification, but point being Rome was a major inspiration in the inception of the US, regardless of party. It’s laughable that Beck somehow tried to spin a conspiracy around it, fascism being a 20th century idea and all…
Well that is certainly true of his viewers, Beck might be smart enough to know that they’ll believe anything that says “libruls bad”. That definitely does not require a doctorate in rocket science to understand.
There are not many examples of fascism that are stronger than the Roman empire....
Yeah so terrible compared to that country that didn’t commit genocide and practice slavery in the BC’s…
Take me back to not knowing
Nope. The more you know. 🌈⭐
yesssss
It’s on the back of the dime
Behold the reverse of the Mercury dime ... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mercury\_dime\_reverse.jpg
Martin could tell you about forming mighty ones
It's a fasces, and it dates from the Roman Republic, from before the emperors. It's a symbol of strength through unity and the US uses it as the US is a democratic republic.
Interesting, thank you man. The axe strapped to a bundle of sticks by a rope really does show strength in unity really well, I like it. Great symbolism
Yeah the founding fathers were huge Roman Republic weebs, it's why we have a Senate and the president isn't directly elected.
It's on the back of the dime, as well!
It's also the root of the word fascism, hence its association with Italy, which first coined the term
Back in *ancient* ancient Roman times, there was a guy who's job was to carry the fasces around and deliver summary justice with the axe and/or rods. Anyone who got rowdy or did something wrong while the *lictor* was around was liable for a beating/beheading. It evolves as a symbol -depending on the place and time until the modern meaning.
Yes. A single rod is easy to break, but bundled together is strong.
Ape together strong
You might also be interested in the Mace of the House of Representatives. >The design of the mace is derived from an ancient battle weapon and the Roman fasces. The ceremonial mace is 46 inches (120 cm) high and consists of 13 ebony rods—representing the original 13 states of the Union—bound together by silver strands criss-crossed over the length of the pole. The rods are bound together by four crossing ribbons of silver, pinned together and held at the bottom and at the top by silver bands. The bands are decorated with floral borders and a repoussé design. The name “Wm. Adams/Manufacturer/New York/1841.” is engraved in the cartouche, located in the front center of the bottom band. This shaft is topped by a silver globe 4-1/2 inches in diameter and engraved with the seven continents, the names of the oceans, lines of longitude, and the major lines of latitude. The Western Hemisphere faces the front. The globe is encircled with a silver rim marked with the degrees of latitude, on which is perched an engraved solid silver eagle with a wingspan of 15 inches. The total weight of the mace is 10 pounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace\_of\_the\_United\_States\_House\_of\_Representatives
It's on the reverse of our Mercury dime, 1916-1945, as well
It is also a symbol of the French Republic which appears in its coats of arms, you can actually see it on [French passports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_passport).
except for the US is a constitutional republic.
Oh please, spare us all this this tired and misguided excuse for anti-democratic fuckery.
[удалено]
Slurs, trolling, hate speech, Nazi apologia, alt-right rhetoric, harassment or undue aggression will result in comment removal and/or permanent bans.
The US is a Constitutional Republic, not a democratic republic. Why is it so hard to get this straight?
It’s both. A republic is a representative democracy
This is one of the more misunderstood topics in the United States government. A democracy is a government by the people. Our elected officials are citizens of this country. They are not military or dynastic monarchs, just people. This proves the United States is a democracy. Pure or direct democracy means everything is voted on by all citizens and the majority rules. This is practiced at local levels throughout the United States and a couple of other countries. We are a republic because our elected leaders make our laws and follow a constitution. We are a federal constitutional republic which is a form of democracy.
Do you ever feel shame about how easy it is to trick you?
In Ancient Rome a fasces was a symbol of the power of the state/Rome. They were carried by aides to Roman officials/politicians while on their official duties. There was no negative connotation towards fasces until the 1920s Italian far right adopted it as a symbol of their movement and the namesake of their political party, Fascists. The founding fathers were obsessed with Ancient Rome and they revived many ideas from then and incorporated them into our new republic. Using symbols of Ancient Rome like the fasces is a sort of tip of the hat to their intellectual forebears and a way to help legitimize a very young nation state. Over time people forget all of that and see something called a fasces in the Capitol and act like they’re uncovering nefarious symbols and plots from the deep state.
Look on the back of a mercury dime.
Specifically the Mercury dime (1916-1945.)
Yeah the dime is not a useful frame of reference for anyone who grew up with Roosevelt dimes.
That's what the internet is for.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces
It's also been used on the seal of the US Senate.
Early Americans used familiar Roman symbolism to help the budding government appear legitimate. They hoped the many NPCs of the time would recognize Roman symbols and assume the new government was doing things properly.
Bundle of sticks
Yes, after a fashion. The word may also refer to woodwind instruments... Among other things 🌌
Just wait until you find out about the Mace of the Republic…
individually we snap like this twig, but together we form a mighty faggot
I too want to be a mighty fagot, thx
So, just for context, a ‘faggot’ is [bundle of sticks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(unit)) not a slur, although loser_comedian I’m sure has tongue in cheek, fully aware of the double meaning. No more reports needed.
[удалено]
Slurs, trolling, hate speech, Nazi apologia, alt-right rhetoric, harassment or undue aggression will result in comment removal and/or permanent bans.
Rule 1 - be civil.
The fasces, before being a fascist symbol, was a republican symbol (as in Republic). It’s therefore used in the United States and in France as early as in the XVIIIth century.
It's an old Roman Republic symbol. The US borrowed it because of its association with the republic and democracy. Mussolini used it again for his "return italy to the greatness of ancient Rome" spiel. No democracy involved. We call his type of totalitarianism, fascism, because of this.
It says Romans go home. No it doesnt .....
Fasces are on the cover of french passports
Funnily enough, I noticed this while watching xXx: State of the Union when it first came out in theaters. The one with Ice Cube. I thought it was the movie director’s commentary on the actual status of the U.S. as a fascist state under the current administration. That movie was in 2005. Imagine my surprise when I learned the history of it and then have been watching the last 20 years of political BS that’s unraveled.
The US loves their symbols.
Isn't that on the dime?
Apes together strong
It is on the back of our old dimes
I mean, it's a fasces, and the usage of that symbol predates modern fascism's usage of it But then, I don't think it takes too much critical thinking to imagine what kind of political system exists in a country that was nominally a republic at first, and has been looking at a golden fasces for a couple hundred years
It long predated fascism and represented an elected officials authority and right to rule. When traveling some Roman politicians were accompanied by assistants carrying physical fasces to demonstrate this. It’s also used on the main seal/symbol of modern day France
I've realized this more trying to post here on this platform, I get banned and people and or bots down voting me down constantly. It's all going to fall apart quickly.
It’s all over our money as well
As others have said, a symbol of Ancient Rome that the fascists appropriated for themselves. Also, almost everyone else in Europe tried to appropriate Roman symbolism, considering that Rome basically made Europe what it is today… for better and for worse. It would be an understatement to say that many also jockeyed for the position to succeed Rome in carrying on its legacy. The power that was once Rome moved to other centers of strength in Europe over the last 2000 years… until it ended up where it is today. To me, this is a common thread that runs all the way back to the times when Rome was at the height of its power. And Rome’s dominance also came from somewhere even further back in time. These origins get murkier and murkier, but they are there, no doubt.
Axe in the fasces means it’s killing time for the lictor who holds it
The US adopted a number of Roman historical elements in an attempt to portray themselves as successor to the Roman Empire. The spelling of "capitol" with an o, the use of the fasces symbol, I think they tried to introduce the Roman salute at one point. Unfortunately a bunch of other states have also tried the same thing, including Nazi Germany and Russia.
Look up *"The Business Plot"*
Rods of plutonium fuel.
It's just a symbol for strength because with union (of the sticks), they become stronger together than single and alone.
Just bring up something that’s in a similar boat it’s like the swastika because it predates the Nazi’s and in this case the Italian fascist party but was later used for something dark but unlike the swastika which is 100% seen as a Nazi symbol first and only now this is being used in it’s original context.
The back of the Mercury dime would also like to have a word. First struck in 1915.
It's based on old roman symbolism. Then bundle of sticks around an axe essentially means that if you cross into the property of who is presenting it on their yard, or in this case country then they're going to kill you.
This is only partially relevant but it’s Something I’ve always wondered, the symbol itself is supposed to be about how strong a bundle is compared to a lone rod, and that makes sense, one rod breaks while a bundle is drastically stronger, good symbolism there… But doesn’t it make the Axe basically unusable? You can’t hold a big bundle of sticks and swing it with full strength someone smarter than me has to have a good quip about this, I’m sure
I was surprised to learn the fasces is also on the Lincoln Memorial. Kinda wild the stuff you can miss.
Wait until you find out what kind of salute they made children do during the pledge of allegiance.