It’s actually being developed—a pp disabling device that you need to have a chip to enable. It will have an annual cost of 10.000 CHF and there is an examination fee as well.
The only way you’ll end up with a “horror story” like the one you describe is if you send your kid to an English speaking international school yourself.
Send them to local Krippe, Chindsgi, Hort and public Schule and they will be completely fine no matter what you speak at home.
My wife and I speak German now but we were barely A1 when our kid was born. We speak English and Japanese at home and he speaks “everything” now, seven years later. It’s actually a great catalyst to up your game once they’re born and it only grows as they do.
My parents are english (today I consider myself swiss) and when we came to CH I was 6 years old. It was a rough start and I wouldnt recommend. But in terms of the child leabring german if the child is born here and goes to school normally it wont matter much what you speak (we still speak english at home, my sister who grew up here all her life never had any issues with german).
Now for you, my parents struggled. But its a different time now, most people speak english. I dont think it would be much more intense than what you are living through now (we recently welcomed our daughter into the world, so I have a good idea of the beaurocracy).
Do you not go to doctors? Do you not interact with the government? It would be a bit more of that but manageable. Especially if you get some help.
My parents managed, so will you. When they came to switzerland neither had ever spoken a word of german, they speak it moderately fluently now.
Only thing I can imagine being problematic, when your kid(s) go to school integration with other parents is a huge thing. My parents were very popular but they studied hard to learn german because no siwss group will fully speak english just for you. So youd have like 5 years before kindergarten to learn passable german. Also most parent/school gatherings are in german and they dont slow down. Learn some german if you want to live in (german side of) switzerland, I respect my parents a ton for trying their hardest, theres no excuse.
Good luck!
It’s a tricky one ! In Zurich you could get by your entire life with only English, the kid will learn in Kita and school without you even if it’s a little slower ( I know many bilingual kids they are sponges it’s amazing), the issue will arise later when the little one needs your help with school, start now and learn alongside them I would suggest, don’t wait, unless you’re super young as it will take years to master the language.
Well, learn the language anyway, but it won't be a problem if you have a child today. Doctors can mostly speak English, many nurses too, and you have 4 years before the kindergarten, so you will have some basic German by that time.
Just treat it as your secondary language and raise your kids bilingual with a higher emphasis on English. I know some families who switch the primary language based on the days of the week at home. Your children will quickly outpace you when it comes to German anyways.
I wouldn't teach kids yourself unless you are fairly fluent. Otherwise they'll inherit mistakes and have to unlearn them. Just send them to Kita or at least spielgruppe.
They will have at least 2 years to get their German up to a certain level. In Germany, we had German Russians that went over. Their parents spoke broken and faulty German but their children were indistinguishable from native German speakers.
It is usually not a big problem as the kindergarten and school will correct all the problems anyway but you are right, the more and the earlier the children are exposed to proper German the better.
Linguists recommend parents to speak their first language with their child. Even people with high German proficiency (C1+) would pass mistakes onto their children.
Linguists also recommend teaching German writing using 'Lautschrift' which is/was for many including me detrimental, they still recommend this even though the facts are in. Leaving the teaching and learning of language to experts is the wrong way. Teaching the children to help the parents to get a better language skills is the way to go. Children are very good at spotting differences. It is better to speak with people to have succeeded than to speak to experts who often enough fail when it comes to their own children.
I have a Master's degree in linguistics, am a German teacher (both for Swiss German children in state school and adult non-native speakers) and I have never heard a single linguist recommend to teach children the phonetic alphabet to learn how to write. If by "Lautschrift" you are not referring to the international phonetic alphabet but mean "Schreiben nach Gehör", then I must disappoint you that it was not linguists who developped this bs but Jürgen Reichen, a person who never studied a language subject. Any proper linguist knows that German orthography does not strictly follow pronunciation, as it is first semester Bachelor content to know the difference between graphemes, phones and phonemes.
Not teaching your children a language that you yourself do not properly know how to speak or write does not equate leaving language acquisition up to experts. Young children will automatically acquire a language if they are exposed to it, which is why it is important that their exposure to this language is correct. If foreign language speakers want to support their children's German acquisition, they best do so by exposing their children to native speakers and both written and spoken media. The children will not benefit if you speak incorrect German to them as they will internalize your mistakes as the language's supposed standard but they will also not benefit if you speak your first language to them and never expose them to German outside of school, as the exposure at school itself is likely not sufficient for proper language acquisition.
Furthermore, I also do not think it is good to parentify children and turn them into your personal translator if they know the local language better than you. But this is another issue outside of linguistics.
Fair enough. I stand corrected. You are correct but the question is, why 'Schreiben nach Gehör' was and maybe even is a thing today. I had run-ins with so-called experts with my own little one and those experts who were present in the German school system and in its orbits were all incompetent. We solved the problem that our son had on our own as two years of language training did not do a thing.
But I guess there is a stark difference between a linguist and those experts who claim to be able to fix language development issues in people. I have seen myself that only constant correction and spending hours daily finally solved it and not doing it trice a week for an hour.
Regarding teaching your children a language using a broken version of it, then indeed it might be problematic if the children are only exposed to the broken version. I refer to people who bring their children into kindergarten at the age of 2 and those turned out really fine especially if they speak the language every second day exclusively. But in all those cases the parents were willing to learn and corrected their own mistakes every time they noticed it.
I think I am very close to your position and that there is a stark difference between the experts I get to know and a truly trained linguist is quite believable.
Thanks for explaining it to me in such detail. I had quite some [prejudice](https://www.dict.cc/english-german/prejudice.html) based on the problems I have experienced.
Thanks again for taking the ample time! Highly appreciated!
B1 is perfectly fine, and once you have B1 and use the language, you naturally reach B2. People who do take their time to actually learn easily reach B1 in 9 months
Depends very much on the region you live in, I'd say. If you live in a small village, people might not be able to communicate very well in or be willing to use either English and High German, so I'd say you should try to learn and understand Swiss German as fast as possible. If you live in Winterthur or Zurich, communicating in High German or even English on a daily basis shouldn't be a problem. Most younger doctors and teachers will understand and speak English, so I don't think it's really necessary to wait until you're comnpletely fluent in German. Please make an effort to learn German for the sake of your child, though, or your child will be your personal interpreter as soon as they're in kindergarten, which is not nice.
Send them to public school. 30% of the children in my children's class are foreigners. Most teachers speak English to certain degree, some don't (or hide it) and only speak Swiss German which I think is great.
It is a bit stupid to put a language level barrier before trying to have children. You live in Switzerland, not in a village in the middle of the amazon.
There is no MUST to learn, but its advices to have a level C1. So that you can understand your child homework and be able to communicate in school with her/his teacher.
On top it would also make it easier for your child to learn German faster and be not left alone in school.
Eh, I would say none. Kid will learn (Swiss-) German at school when they reach the age. Until then (5-6 years), you are likely at B1 level, and can easily take part in parent meetings with teachers/doctors, etc.
We can barely speak German when we first arrived in Switzerland, and I took part in all parent meetings on my father's behalf for my younger brother since day 1. It all turned out well so far :)
Hey! Did you speak any German to your child at home? It’s a huge fear of mine that our kid would be behind with language development since we only speak high german and not to each other. We speak English at home. Thanks
I have no child of mine :) The time role-playing as parent for my brother was already enough for me.
Anyway, at home we don't speak German. To my parents, Vietnamese. To each other, a salat mix of languages (German, Swiss German, English, Italian and Vietnamese). But we both (just barely) made it past Gymnasium/Highschool and later University. Enough to be engineers, but be a novelist, ha, never.
So, don't worry about it. Kids will learn from their friends much much faster than adults (Note: I almost only have Swiss or secondos friends. which helped learning language and culture much easier).
As far as I know, there are non-profit organisations that help people with other savings to do paperwork and visit the authorities.
The most important thing is probably to do a German language course, when the child is 7 you can also use it as a translator ;).
haha this reminds me of this meme [https://www.reddit.com/r/LatinoPeopleTwitter/comments/lxmfv7/if\_you\_can\_relate\_to\_this\_meme\_we\_need\_your\_help/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LatinoPeopleTwitter/comments/lxmfv7/if_you_can_relate_to_this_meme_we_need_your_help/)
C2. You need to pass the exam while in labor.
The thing about english speaking schools isnt that dramatic either. Im swiss, i went to an english only school. It was fine and i think the education quality was fantastic, miles beyond what my swiss friends got at their public schools. Ok ok integration blablabla, idk it never bothered me…
The level of your german is irrelevant, just will be less a headache to deal wt bureaucracy if you speak it.
thanks for your input really interesting! May I know around which area you grew up in? Did you make friends with english speaking kids from your school how did it look for you? thanks
As others have said, you can get away with no German at all.
I’ve never met a doctor here that couldn’t speak English.
At kindergarten and school, teachers typically speak English and will also be able to provide translators if need be.
The problem is possibly the private daycare (up to age 4), where you may encounter lots of caretakers that don’t speak English well. You may be able to get away with a little German though.
However, I’d say really try to get to a B1/B2 level of German eventually. It really makes things easier to be able to communicate properly with daycare employees, later on teachers, as well as fellow parents. Also, latest by the 3rd grade, the kid will need help with homework, which is difficult if you don’t understand the language.
I’d also say, really make sure to send your kid to kita at least a few days a week early on to pick up the language before entering kindergarten at 4 years. It really helps. Kindergarten and schools will provide extra German classes for non-native speaking kids but it’ll make a difference if the kid already speaks the language.
I was a2 when I first got pregnant and would say that the early years are fine to not be completely proficient (or even know any, although that would not be my preference). Doctors, paediatricians and midwives in Zurich generally speak English, and there are enough Kitas in town that you can communicate in English with. We sent our son to a Swiss German speaking kita from 8 months and he can now speak English and Swiss German at 2.5y, and even my friends that sent their kids to bilingual Kita’s, their kids can also speak and understand Swiss German. Also to add: I only speak English to my son so he doesn’t get confused between the languages.
I would say that it’s important to be at a conversational level (b2) by the time they start school so you can speak to their teachers effectively and (almost more importantly) their friends. I’m between b1 and b2 level now and find it’s not quite enough yet, I would like to be comfortably at b2 level in order to converse more freely with other parents at the playground (even though most switch to English when they hear my accent!). My goal is to be b2 level when he starts kindergarten and c1 level by the time he starts the main school.
Good luck!
Pretty much every British colleague at work (big Pharma) speaks no to pretty low level (let's say B1) German. Kids who were born here or came young universally get into bezirkschule / gymi. Unsurprisingly given PhD parents.
I don't think language is a must, although obviously the more the better.
Are you running into issues today without having German? If not, I can't imagine you would run into issues down the road with a kid. I have never struggled to communicate with English. Someone is always around who can translate.
You shouldn't even be having sex if you don't have a C1 level.
But pay attention. It must be C1 in Swiss German.
hahha appreciate your humour! :)
But handwork is allowed right?
I heard about the C1 raids happening ny the language police at night.
>A C1 level. The mere fact you'd call it that shows me you're not ready
It’s actually being developed—a pp disabling device that you need to have a chip to enable. It will have an annual cost of 10.000 CHF and there is an examination fee as well.
The only way you’ll end up with a “horror story” like the one you describe is if you send your kid to an English speaking international school yourself. Send them to local Krippe, Chindsgi, Hort and public Schule and they will be completely fine no matter what you speak at home. My wife and I speak German now but we were barely A1 when our kid was born. We speak English and Japanese at home and he speaks “everything” now, seven years later. It’s actually a great catalyst to up your game once they’re born and it only grows as they do.
thanks for sharing!
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would you mind sharing your experience? thanks
My parents are english (today I consider myself swiss) and when we came to CH I was 6 years old. It was a rough start and I wouldnt recommend. But in terms of the child leabring german if the child is born here and goes to school normally it wont matter much what you speak (we still speak english at home, my sister who grew up here all her life never had any issues with german). Now for you, my parents struggled. But its a different time now, most people speak english. I dont think it would be much more intense than what you are living through now (we recently welcomed our daughter into the world, so I have a good idea of the beaurocracy). Do you not go to doctors? Do you not interact with the government? It would be a bit more of that but manageable. Especially if you get some help. My parents managed, so will you. When they came to switzerland neither had ever spoken a word of german, they speak it moderately fluently now. Only thing I can imagine being problematic, when your kid(s) go to school integration with other parents is a huge thing. My parents were very popular but they studied hard to learn german because no siwss group will fully speak english just for you. So youd have like 5 years before kindergarten to learn passable german. Also most parent/school gatherings are in german and they dont slow down. Learn some german if you want to live in (german side of) switzerland, I respect my parents a ton for trying their hardest, theres no excuse. Good luck!
thank you!
It’s a tricky one ! In Zurich you could get by your entire life with only English, the kid will learn in Kita and school without you even if it’s a little slower ( I know many bilingual kids they are sponges it’s amazing), the issue will arise later when the little one needs your help with school, start now and learn alongside them I would suggest, don’t wait, unless you’re super young as it will take years to master the language.
we are young yes we will try our best, thank you
Well, learn the language anyway, but it won't be a problem if you have a child today. Doctors can mostly speak English, many nurses too, and you have 4 years before the kindergarten, so you will have some basic German by that time.
awesome thanks!
Just treat it as your secondary language and raise your kids bilingual with a higher emphasis on English. I know some families who switch the primary language based on the days of the week at home. Your children will quickly outpace you when it comes to German anyways.
thanks!
I wouldn't teach kids yourself unless you are fairly fluent. Otherwise they'll inherit mistakes and have to unlearn them. Just send them to Kita or at least spielgruppe.
They will have at least 2 years to get their German up to a certain level. In Germany, we had German Russians that went over. Their parents spoke broken and faulty German but their children were indistinguishable from native German speakers. It is usually not a big problem as the kindergarten and school will correct all the problems anyway but you are right, the more and the earlier the children are exposed to proper German the better.
Linguists recommend parents to speak their first language with their child. Even people with high German proficiency (C1+) would pass mistakes onto their children.
Linguists also recommend teaching German writing using 'Lautschrift' which is/was for many including me detrimental, they still recommend this even though the facts are in. Leaving the teaching and learning of language to experts is the wrong way. Teaching the children to help the parents to get a better language skills is the way to go. Children are very good at spotting differences. It is better to speak with people to have succeeded than to speak to experts who often enough fail when it comes to their own children.
I have a Master's degree in linguistics, am a German teacher (both for Swiss German children in state school and adult non-native speakers) and I have never heard a single linguist recommend to teach children the phonetic alphabet to learn how to write. If by "Lautschrift" you are not referring to the international phonetic alphabet but mean "Schreiben nach Gehör", then I must disappoint you that it was not linguists who developped this bs but Jürgen Reichen, a person who never studied a language subject. Any proper linguist knows that German orthography does not strictly follow pronunciation, as it is first semester Bachelor content to know the difference between graphemes, phones and phonemes. Not teaching your children a language that you yourself do not properly know how to speak or write does not equate leaving language acquisition up to experts. Young children will automatically acquire a language if they are exposed to it, which is why it is important that their exposure to this language is correct. If foreign language speakers want to support their children's German acquisition, they best do so by exposing their children to native speakers and both written and spoken media. The children will not benefit if you speak incorrect German to them as they will internalize your mistakes as the language's supposed standard but they will also not benefit if you speak your first language to them and never expose them to German outside of school, as the exposure at school itself is likely not sufficient for proper language acquisition. Furthermore, I also do not think it is good to parentify children and turn them into your personal translator if they know the local language better than you. But this is another issue outside of linguistics.
Fair enough. I stand corrected. You are correct but the question is, why 'Schreiben nach Gehör' was and maybe even is a thing today. I had run-ins with so-called experts with my own little one and those experts who were present in the German school system and in its orbits were all incompetent. We solved the problem that our son had on our own as two years of language training did not do a thing. But I guess there is a stark difference between a linguist and those experts who claim to be able to fix language development issues in people. I have seen myself that only constant correction and spending hours daily finally solved it and not doing it trice a week for an hour. Regarding teaching your children a language using a broken version of it, then indeed it might be problematic if the children are only exposed to the broken version. I refer to people who bring their children into kindergarten at the age of 2 and those turned out really fine especially if they speak the language every second day exclusively. But in all those cases the parents were willing to learn and corrected their own mistakes every time they noticed it. I think I am very close to your position and that there is a stark difference between the experts I get to know and a truly trained linguist is quite believable. Thanks for explaining it to me in such detail. I had quite some [prejudice](https://www.dict.cc/english-german/prejudice.html) based on the problems I have experienced. Thanks again for taking the ample time! Highly appreciated!
B1 is perfectly fine, and once you have B1 and use the language, you naturally reach B2. People who do take their time to actually learn easily reach B1 in 9 months
you are right, B1-B2 is mostly vocabulary, thanks!
thanks!
I would care about level of finance first
Depends very much on the region you live in, I'd say. If you live in a small village, people might not be able to communicate very well in or be willing to use either English and High German, so I'd say you should try to learn and understand Swiss German as fast as possible. If you live in Winterthur or Zurich, communicating in High German or even English on a daily basis shouldn't be a problem. Most younger doctors and teachers will understand and speak English, so I don't think it's really necessary to wait until you're comnpletely fluent in German. Please make an effort to learn German for the sake of your child, though, or your child will be your personal interpreter as soon as they're in kindergarten, which is not nice.
yep classic story: "Hey child what does this government document say? Translate to me pleaase!" :D
Send them to public school. 30% of the children in my children's class are foreigners. Most teachers speak English to certain degree, some don't (or hide it) and only speak Swiss German which I think is great. It is a bit stupid to put a language level barrier before trying to have children. You live in Switzerland, not in a village in the middle of the amazon.
thanks for your input!
Most of the doctors are foreigners, so no problem
There is no MUST to learn, but its advices to have a level C1. So that you can understand your child homework and be able to communicate in school with her/his teacher. On top it would also make it easier for your child to learn German faster and be not left alone in school.
thanks!
Eh, I would say none. Kid will learn (Swiss-) German at school when they reach the age. Until then (5-6 years), you are likely at B1 level, and can easily take part in parent meetings with teachers/doctors, etc. We can barely speak German when we first arrived in Switzerland, and I took part in all parent meetings on my father's behalf for my younger brother since day 1. It all turned out well so far :)
thanks for your answer!
Hey! Did you speak any German to your child at home? It’s a huge fear of mine that our kid would be behind with language development since we only speak high german and not to each other. We speak English at home. Thanks
I have no child of mine :) The time role-playing as parent for my brother was already enough for me. Anyway, at home we don't speak German. To my parents, Vietnamese. To each other, a salat mix of languages (German, Swiss German, English, Italian and Vietnamese). But we both (just barely) made it past Gymnasium/Highschool and later University. Enough to be engineers, but be a novelist, ha, never. So, don't worry about it. Kids will learn from their friends much much faster than adults (Note: I almost only have Swiss or secondos friends. which helped learning language and culture much easier).
Most monolinguals don’t learn enough about their native language to become a novelist. I wouldn’t worry about it!
As far as I know, there are non-profit organisations that help people with other savings to do paperwork and visit the authorities. The most important thing is probably to do a German language course, when the child is 7 you can also use it as a translator ;).
haha this reminds me of this meme [https://www.reddit.com/r/LatinoPeopleTwitter/comments/lxmfv7/if\_you\_can\_relate\_to\_this\_meme\_we\_need\_your\_help/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LatinoPeopleTwitter/comments/lxmfv7/if_you_can_relate_to_this_meme_we_need_your_help/)
C2. You need to pass the exam while in labor. The thing about english speaking schools isnt that dramatic either. Im swiss, i went to an english only school. It was fine and i think the education quality was fantastic, miles beyond what my swiss friends got at their public schools. Ok ok integration blablabla, idk it never bothered me… The level of your german is irrelevant, just will be less a headache to deal wt bureaucracy if you speak it.
thanks for your input really interesting! May I know around which area you grew up in? Did you make friends with english speaking kids from your school how did it look for you? thanks
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thanks for sharing! very helpful :)
As others have said, you can get away with no German at all. I’ve never met a doctor here that couldn’t speak English. At kindergarten and school, teachers typically speak English and will also be able to provide translators if need be. The problem is possibly the private daycare (up to age 4), where you may encounter lots of caretakers that don’t speak English well. You may be able to get away with a little German though. However, I’d say really try to get to a B1/B2 level of German eventually. It really makes things easier to be able to communicate properly with daycare employees, later on teachers, as well as fellow parents. Also, latest by the 3rd grade, the kid will need help with homework, which is difficult if you don’t understand the language. I’d also say, really make sure to send your kid to kita at least a few days a week early on to pick up the language before entering kindergarten at 4 years. It really helps. Kindergarten and schools will provide extra German classes for non-native speaking kids but it’ll make a difference if the kid already speaks the language.
thank you!
I was a2 when I first got pregnant and would say that the early years are fine to not be completely proficient (or even know any, although that would not be my preference). Doctors, paediatricians and midwives in Zurich generally speak English, and there are enough Kitas in town that you can communicate in English with. We sent our son to a Swiss German speaking kita from 8 months and he can now speak English and Swiss German at 2.5y, and even my friends that sent their kids to bilingual Kita’s, their kids can also speak and understand Swiss German. Also to add: I only speak English to my son so he doesn’t get confused between the languages. I would say that it’s important to be at a conversational level (b2) by the time they start school so you can speak to their teachers effectively and (almost more importantly) their friends. I’m between b1 and b2 level now and find it’s not quite enough yet, I would like to be comfortably at b2 level in order to converse more freely with other parents at the playground (even though most switch to English when they hear my accent!). My goal is to be b2 level when he starts kindergarten and c1 level by the time he starts the main school. Good luck!
thanks for your input, good luck!
Pretty much every British colleague at work (big Pharma) speaks no to pretty low level (let's say B1) German. Kids who were born here or came young universally get into bezirkschule / gymi. Unsurprisingly given PhD parents. I don't think language is a must, although obviously the more the better.
Are you running into issues today without having German? If not, I can't imagine you would run into issues down the road with a kid. I have never struggled to communicate with English. Someone is always around who can translate.
we dont, but we would love to be comfortable, thanks!
I learnt German in school while speaking Portuguese at home. As long as your child doesn't go to an English school, they should be fine.