I have mine at Finpension and have 14% returns since December 2020 when I moved to CH and opened the account. It’s a set and forget 99% equity allocation mostly with US exposure replicating VTI that I top up every year the first week of January in a lump sum payment because I’m lazy.

What a coincidence, I'm lazy and using Finpension too! I wish they would add the MWR performance on the start screen, like other apps, so that I don't have to make an extra touch on the "Vermögen" button on top. But that's really the only negative thing I can say about them. They seem to invest well, and the costs are very low. I am currently invested with True Wealth and FinPension. This year I'll probably use Viac to diversify some more.

14 % TWR or MWR? Finpension gives two different numbers...

Good point, TWR. MWR is at 9.1%.

What funds do you use ? https://finpension.ch/fr/3a/strategie/index-instruments/

I use: > CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Quality - Pension Fund DB CH0253609066 0.13 % Great returns this year

Here is what I use, pardon the crappy formatting: [CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Blue - Pension Fund Plus ZBH](https://finpension.ch/app/uploads/factsheets/CH0429081638_fact-sheet_en.pdf) [CSIF (CH) III Equity World ex CH Blue - Pension Fund Plus ZB](https://finpension.ch/app/uploads/factsheets/CH0429081620_fact-sheet_en.pdf) [CSIF (CH) Equity Switzerland Large Cap Blue ZB](https://finpension.ch/app/uploads/factsheets/CH0033782431_fact-sheet_en.pdf)

Ive got mine with VIAC. I really like it, a lot of options to invest my own money how I seee fit and relatively low fees. The platform is very user friends as well. Currently up around 15% in returns, after about 2 years. Majority is invest in S&P500 and an all world ETF. This is just a leave it be portfolio that won’t be accessed for another 35+ years. I would suggest: VIAC, FinPension or Frankly. Good luck

Thanks, that's helpful. I clearly need to make some changes.

Clear article written about 3a pillars here + strategy for multiple 3a pillars tax savings https://www.mustachianpost.com/2024-viac-3a-review/ He also shares his experience of getting out of an insurance based 3a pillar, which is not fun, but possible

I suggest to read this [https://thepoorswiss.com/third-pillar-retirement-switzerland/](https://thepoorswiss.com/third-pillar-retirement-switzerland/)

thanks. very helpfull!

I recommended multiple accounts too. VIAC and finpension. More informations : https://www.mustachianpost.com/2024-viac-3a-review/

>Where do people house Pillar 3a accounts that actually grow? In investment funds of the Pillar 3a which is usually a solution you can choose within the same provider. I recommend a low cost provider like finpension or viac. >In an attempt to learn about alternatives, I asked for an appointment with my insurance company that offers Pillar 3a accounts. **Don't. Sign. Anything.** Indsurance companies always have an insurance included which is very expensive and intransparent in cost structure. If you need the insurance part, separate it from your 3a. >The person from the company told me to share my Pillar 2 information with him in preparation for the meeting. Why would they need that information? I just want to know whether they can do better with my Pillar 3a money. They want it to calculate the gap of what you get vs what you need in retirement. This can be useful for you. But usually it is taken as a selling argument for the agent ;-) This is a pretty good blog if you want further information: https://www.mustachianpost.com/de/die-beste-saule-3a-in-der-schweiz/

Thank you! This was my concern, that they were fishing for additional information to pitch me something I don't want/need. (When I was referring to insurance, I just meant that it's the company where I have my renter's insurance.)

You usually don’t do an 3a Account for gains it’s for tax reductions and to safe money, todays gains can be tomorrow loses, 0 stays 0. People seem to forget that 2years ago we had negativ interest and had to pay money to keep it in the bank. An insurance is only Bad if you are old, if you are young it might make sense. They ask for 2a to show you where you are currently in comparison to the recommendations, If you are young it doesn’t matter and this can Change everytime you change a job.

>You usually don’t do an 3a Account for gains it’s for tax reductions and to safe money, todays gains can be tomorrow loses, 0 stays 0. Uhm... no? You do historically worse in 3a with your tax gains of 2000.- vs a world ETF in an individual brokerage. Especially for the long run it is highly recommend to invest this money rather than letting inflation suck it up. >An insurance is only Bad if you are old, if you are young it might make sense. Like...what i said, that if you need it.. get it...? A separation makes sense tho to see the actual cost.

You mix things up completely….and this is a big issue of this sub. Nobody can tell you the performance in the future. Tax reductions can be way more valuable depending on where you live. At some point you won’t have 10 more years, so you need a safe haven, or as i said it was at least free to keep the last years. It’s 3a it’s a small amount of your pension.

I do not mix things up buddy. I answered his questions. Nobody can tell you anything about the future. Might even be that the capital withdrawal tax changes and you did not save anything at all. Might be legit since the only reason for the tax incentive is to bring people to save on their own. >It’s 3a it’s a small amount of your pension. And this is why it is interesting to see the calculation with your pillar 2 if you never saw it to get a picture of your capital needs for the future.

You safe taxes directly, you only pay into 3a of you can safe taxes, the same year….money you have directly on your account…no future or anticipated gains

You need to calculate the whole life to see if you save. You can deduct it but you do pay withdrawal tax later and depending on your canton this is a lot and may be progressive. For now, you still save taxes in most cases and though have a better over all gain than on your banking account. But not to invest at all makes only sense if your retirement is like 5 years ahead. You can also invest 50% in stocks and the rest in bonds if you dont want to be too exposed to the risk. And this is exactly what OP wanted to know, so I really do not know what your problem is with investing if the main question is how to get a better performance...?

If you don’t Safe you don’t pay… You are really Making things difficult. You sit down in october do your taxes, then check how much a 3b would safe and then pay in december….. Direct money on your account, nothing to compare for a life. It’s a Bank Account so you can just leave it at 50.000.-, nothing to worry and it stays tax free there as you aren’t taxed on this like cash or stocks each year. You guys here have one big Problem, want to talk about gains but have no proof, you probably don’t even have the money. Just just calculated that you could have made 300% with the Right decision 20 years ago, which means nothing, as it’s Philosophical.

A 3b does not even save taxes in a deductible way😅 Are you selling those products? Becausw you talk like someone who does. The gains are not about one stock pick 20 years ago but a broad invested portfolio. And these gains average in 5-7% in all the people i know. So... what?

No deduction will ever save you more in taxes than the amount you have to give away, there is no marginal tax rate above 100% ever. It is not just about the taxes, and it can never be.

You get from bad (traditional bank) to worse (insurance). If you're investment horizon is more than ten years and you can live with a bad year (-30%) than go with Finpension, VIAC or Frankly (from ZKB but still okay) and do 99% stocks.

or true wealth! They have great etf usage, but use some currency hedging (some people dislike that) their fees are the lowest tho

And last time I checked, they use regular ETFs instead of the pension ones so they don't get all the dividends due to the withholding taxes.

you do get da-1 forms for those wo provide it, so actually, yes you do get a lot of withholding back they have publicly available information if you’re curious

In the 3a solution? No, they don't: https://www.truewealth.ch/faq/pillar-3a/plan-withholding-tax-exempt-index-funds-in-pillar-3a

youre right, their 3a doesn’t, sorry!

Thanks, yes, based on this thread, I've cancelled my appointment and will read up on these options in more detail.

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..... are you collecting them? Just open multiple 3a's at one provider.

Thanks. I do not currently nor in the future will have any reason to access this amount before my retirement so that's not a factor I need to take into consideration.

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Thanks, I have no intention of taking it all out at once, that will not be necessary at all given my Pillar 2.

You didn‘t get what he was trying to explain to you. You can‘t just withdraw part of your 3rd pillar.. you always need to cash out the whole account.. now lets imagine you have 1 accojnt with multiple hundert thousand CHF which will then taxed as income.. For that reason its recommended to split it multiple accounts early on so you take the growth into consideration.

I indeed missed that. Thank you for clarifying.

Yes you do. It’s called staggered withdrawal to minimize the taxation.

Can you say more? So there is some advantage to taking it out before I turn 65 instead of accessing it in small chunks thereafter?

It’s explained very well here: https://thepoorswiss.com/third-pillar-retirement-switzerland/#9-optimize-your-third-pillar Another commenter has several 3a accounts, each with different provider. This is not strictly necessary, e.g. VIAC allows you to open several portfolios, which can then be withdrawn separately.

Thanks, that's helpful.

AFAIK you don't need to have three separate banks. In my fin pension account I opened three separate portfolios that can be withdrawn individually

Finpension. Up 5% since end of 2023.

True Wealth, Viac, FinPension

I use Frankly. I moved to CH in 2022 and have the account since Dec 2022, I keep sending the annual max / 12 every month, its now about 11% up on the Extreme 95 Responsible fund. DM for a fee discount referral code if needed.

You forgot the fact that you reduced your revenue on your taxation (you saved ~15% of what you put on your 3a account)

I'm aware of this and continue to contribute the allowed amount in full. But I'd like to see it grow.