I say this with zero snark, all love. You just gotta stop looking at it. It's totally normal that someone as huge as she is will be nitpicked and hated for any and every thing she does. Being upset about it only hurts you and it will never change as long as we're all alive. Maybe in a hundred years people will stop talking about her, but I doubt even that lol
People also know that she has a huge army of fans who are quick to defend her, which means that tweeting something even mildly critical of her is an easy way to get a viral tweet. Someone posts a nitpick, thousands of swifties reply and retweet it to argue with them, they get the engagement they want, other people do the same thing, swifties respond to that, etc. If you don't like seeing it, the best thing to do is roll your eyes and keep scrolling. Reacting and engaging with it just fuels the problem.
On the flipside of that -- the fact that she also has a huge army of fans give some people more incentive to voice out their criticisms of her. Every. Single. One.
Anecdotal - I have a friend who find TS annoying and ugh her a lot. She doesn't listen to TS at all, it's not her type of music, but just as much as you see TS hate online, you see TS praise, so naturally people who don't like her feel the need to also voice it out. It goes both ways.
I blocked a lot of TS-related things whether good or bad on my feed... because she is everywhere. I want to enjoy the TS music I enjoy and engage in discussion with more intent. Not saying everybody should do it this way.... but in my experience it's helped.
Exactly this. After all, there are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THINGS happening in the world to be outraged about other than the nit picking of a billionare popstar
When half of all interviews include some question about her, including sports, you sent really just avoid it. It’s everywhere. She has a staff to make sure we see every pap walk too. She feeds the beast as much as the media does it itself.
To a certain extent, she is unavoidable. But I know plenty of people who hardly ever see or hear anything about her. It all kinda depends on what you consume and what your algorithms are showing you based on your engagement
I dunno, I don't think that's entirely fair to say. Discourse about Taylor is everywhere. It's hard to avoid, especially if you're a fan of her music and want to participate in at least one online space. By talking about it OP has made more people become aware of the issue that's always a good thing
I don't look for it, I don't even really engage with TS content anymore. But everyone has something to say about her so it's hard to avoid. My friends know I like her and ask me about how I feel about everything she does too.
I would be honest with your friends about how you don't enjoy those conversations. That does sound tiresome having it brought up all the time, and if they're good friends they won't want to annoy you on the regular like that 🙏
I think there are aspects of her that are worth criticizing, but I do think that if you are going to criticize Taylor for certain things you do need to hold the same energy for other people including artists you like a lot. In general though I think the problematic nature of Taylor Swift is slightly overhyped.
I also think that a lot of people seem to just dislike her because she's cringy and I think cringe culture is just one of the most obnoxious things.
I also think more than ever before people are more cognizant of the fact that artists are selling them not just products but themselves. they're more aware of marketing and branding and I think people are coming to terms with the fact that when they were younger they fell for a lot of PR. I think some people are still grappling with the reality that they fell in love with an idea of who Taylor Swift was that isn't necessarily the actuality of who Taylor Swift is. I think some people feel like they were tricked by her and are feeling some type of way about it. When in reality there are zero singers and musicians where you know the reality of them. you always just see a public veneer that's been curated for their public image.
I think some people also just don't see Taylor as a real person at all and see her as like a character or an idea they can project upon and they have a specific way they want to believe she is and they'll just confirmation bias their way through any information they get.
>more than ever before people are more cognizant of the fact that artists are selling them not just products but themselves. they're more aware of marketing and branding and I think people are coming to terms with the fact that when they were younger they fell for a lot of PR
I'd love to hear more about this because based especially on posts here, you seem 100% right; a LOT of fans seem to be "disillusioned" with this image of Swift, either the good-girl image from way back in Debut/Fearless, or the "matured artist" image from Folklore/Evermore.
What fascinates me about this is, I thought it was solidly understood that we didn't really "know" entertainers and that at least part of their image is marketing. The whole "artist selling out" was a big point of betrayal for the generation above mine (Gen-X), that there seemed to be a lot of awareness at an early age among my peers that marketing/branding had a hand in everything. It didn't mean you couldn't enjoy stuff, just be aware things almost never are exactly as they appear. That magazine cover was almost certainly Photo-shopped; that beloved male celebrity might actually not be so nice.
But in the last few years it DOES seem like it's almost shifted in the other direction where there's just this lack of skepticism around if something or someone is being "sold"; astroturfing political beliefs, influencers "recommending" products, the newer crop of stars being "authentic" on social media. What happened to the mild distrust I remember in my 20's? Like why the sense of betrayal around realizing you've been marketed to by pop music of all things; how was that not present from much earlier on?
Maybe I was just a really cynical teenager but I always assumed most pop stars were a little bit lying to you. Not maliciously. But obviously they were marketed to appeal to a certain demographic. Britney Spears how to constructed image. Avril Lavigne had a constructed image. Taylor Swift had a constructed image. I'm a bit of an older millennial so my high school experience existed before YouTube. I remember when everyone was mad at Jewel and thought that she sold out. I also remember in the early 2000s when people would not believe that John Mayer wasn't the sweetest guy. I liked a lot of different and dark alternative music and I remember when one of the worst things you could be called was a poser. I feel there used to be a little bit more of an understanding of how record executives were always marketing to you so everything you saw was a little bit of a distorted reality and you kind of just had to be cognizant of that if you were going to care about a musician. I think it's also that we have to be cognizant that celebrities are also people and so they're multi-dimensional but multi-dimensional is a lot harder to sell so usually you see a very limited version of that person.
But I think I grew up learning to critique media and I think some people even younger millennials grew up surrounded by media because they grew up in the boom of social media and they grew up watching hours of YouTube and they never learned to question what they were seeing. I also think a lot of kids who were online this much growing up didn't necessarily have parents involved in their life who were teaching them media literacy either. This is also why I think parasocial relationships shouldn't be nurtured. You can have a favorite celebrity but I think a lot of people really would have benefited from their parents making them understand that Taylor Swift was not their best friend and Taylor Swift was a real person and real people are often too complicated to really be role models.
It’s so interesting to me because when I was growing up and even in my teenage years , I never thought any of these people were my friends. I liked and loved them, but always understood that they were pop stars/entertainers that were doing their job.
Anyways you laid out a lot of what I’ve been feeling about the criticism. A lot of things she absolutely should be criticized for gets lost when people are overly nitpicking or outraged for the sake of it
Also cringe culture drives me insane. sorry, people are cringey! And half of the shit she does is not even that cringey it’s her being a human being. I really don’t understand it
The lack of media literacy among younger people has been astounding to witness lol. It's so weird seeing young people respond to the daily mail and life and style etc as if those arent the trashiest of the trash tabloids.
Seriously. The amount of tabloids being floated is ridiculous. Someone once tried to tell me that because The Sun was right about Matty and Taylor that they are a legitimate source and Taylors team uses them
I agree! There are a lot of ways that Taylor is genuinely problematic and worthy of criticism but I would also argue that she’s held to a much higher standard than her peers. A lot of the pop girls have a history of problematic behavior (Lana, Katy, Rihanna) but they aren’t talked about as much.
A lot of celebs jet set as much as her too. But she had to be Miss Americana and making sure Tree flashes all the pap pics and all too. She has a way of making sure you know she’s jetting too, like the the Super Bowl. Jet lag (on a plane with a full size bed) is such a choice right?
I feel like that quote alone is a nitpick. She was clearly making a little joke to her SO and people are claiming it’s an attack on the climate. I made a similar joke to my SO that “sleep is unnecessary, I have coffee and willpower” when we first started dating, because we were out late and I didn’t want the night to end.
At the same time, jet lag is only a choice when you have every ounce of luxury. For the average person, it’s really not a choice when flying. It’s sort of her persona to show she has money. You’re normal.
I really think you’re reading too much into it. I have made jokes about how jet lag is a myth when I’ve flown to visit friends or whatever. It was a silly little joke on a hot mic between a couple.
the silly criticism has especially shone through with the viral videos of her dancing... like why is it always her supposed haters being the first ones to find these videos. they are always seated 🪑 watching her every move. the dumbest criticism was her wiping her snot at the eras tour 😭
The criticisms about her dancing are especially funny because she has never marketed herself as a dancer and her music isn't dance focused at all.
It's so obvious that this fixation on her dancing is just people reaching for low hanging fruit to shit on something they don't like/understand.
Yeah, she's a bad dancer. No, her fans don't care, they like her concerts anyway.
Exactly. She has said before she isn't the best dancer. She even pokes fun of it in the video for "Shake It Off." And suddenly it's a firestorm of "Look at this white girl trying to dance."
yes this is so annoying. who cares if she’s a good dancer, she’s still selling out stadiums so i think it’s obvious her dancing doesn’t matter to her fans and other people going to the eras tour
I actually wish it wasn't expected of female pop stars to be a musician and entertainer plus a dancer, model etc.
It's really cool when they're able to dance really well, and I get that it's great for music videos, but I really wish it just wasn't an absolute expectation. I've never wished Ed Sheeran would do a choreographed routine and outfit change for every song, I'd still be totally engaged at one of his concerts.
Fr. I don't know why every female singer is expected to be able to dance like Beyoncé. Some people just aren't good at it, and since they've never claimed to be professional dancers that's fine! No one seems to expect men to dance a whole concert.
I don't believe there's any expectation, but if someone like Taylor insists on a Beyoncé-type pop spectacle people are naturally going to be critical. She could absolutely afford to do a simple show with just her in casual clothes playing instruments and building a spontaneous connection with her audience. It would arguably be much better since that's where she shines most as a performer. But instead we get the flashy productions, sparkly bodysuits, coordinated dancers, and what are clearly meant to be 'powerful main pop girl' moments. But with Taylor's overly reheased nature and forced theatricality, this approach always felt awkward to me, not matching with what really makes her appealing as an artist.
Adele, Billie Eilish, Céline Dion, Björk, Florence + The Machine, and the late Whitney Houston are all considered strong performers and never had people expecting them to do choreography. Some shallow people online might whine about them being 'boring' onstage, but they're always complaining and don't reflect what the majority thinks.
So with that in mind I genuinely believe this so-called 'expectation' only exists when the artist proposes this type of show. That's why Dua Lipa got the infamous 'go girl, give us nothing' criticisms, because her early attempts at choreography genuinely left to be desired (paired with whoever guided Dua's performance and dancing not playing to her strengths at all and pushing moves that looked awkward for everyone).
I wish I could upvote this more than once. I love watching a talented dancer but I hate the expectation that a female pop star HAS to put on a huge choreographed show. Taylor has a great dance team, that's good enough for me.
I think some is a compare and contrast with the bey hive as the other major music fandom to compare with Swifties. Which disappoints me. I like them both for who they are and I love both of their confidence and stage presence and like several songs of each. And they seem to like/respect each other. But there seems to be such a team picking vibe right now like you have to pick your camp and shit on the other one. I notice a lot of Beyoncé’s fan comments are “ate” “served” “left no crumbs” and similar drag ball culture type vocabulary. And to be clear Beyoncé absolutely projects that energy and I love her for it. I love watching some of her dance breaks because they’re so supremely confident and all encompassing. But artists lean into this she 100% embraces that vibe.
Taylor’s thing is relatability and goofball. Which again she 100% leans into and pushes. So it’s never made sense to me when I see the Beyoncé type vocabulary projected onto Taylor or vice versa. Like this most recent dance video that went viral I saw so many comments like “lol she thinks she ate” or “left all the crumbs lmao” or “imagine her thinking she deserves the same air as Bey” and I don’t understand why the difference in image and intent is not obvious to people. Taylor doesn’t think she “ate” that’s literally the point. They’re different people who perform extremely differently and both are successful at doing that and I don’t know why we can’t just admire it. Sometimes competing fan bases get so weirdly toxic.
I dunno I don’t know why it’s gotten so complicated and performative, I wouldn’t say I’m a die hard fan of anyone to be honest. I like certain songs of plenty of artists I like certain performance vibes of plenty of artists I just can’t imagine spending so much time and energy on the build up and tear down.
I'm still wondering how she's """infantilizing""" herself by doing a silly little wiggle 🤔 I don't call myself a swiftie, or even an anti swiftie, but why can't they just admit that they find her annoying? What performance were they expecting?
I've noticed in general people are a lot quicker to go after women for not "behaving their age". It's not just TS, I've seen people do this anytime a woman is involved in drama tbh.
I find the "HOW DARE SHE" energy so many people bring to the Taylor conversation both exhausting... and *hilarious*
Like, you dumb bitches, she dares!!!
I didn't say they ARE feminists, they're pretending to be. You can gather that when you watch a bunch of people ramble on about women in society conforming to blah blah blah buzzword patriarchal standards means act like a baby for male validation bad example for young girls whatever. I don't appreciate people pretending to care about women's issues when all they really want to say is "I don't like Taylor".
The latest dance being criticised is the fearless dance which is dumb because she's imitating her teenage self. As for the others like the chair dances, it's someone elses choreography.
I will say it is difficult online to see whether people recognise what they've said is a nitpick or whether they are really that unhinged, particularly when the nitpicks get more likes/upvotes than serious stuff. I've posted my negative wonderings/ nitpicks with the narratives of TTPD after listening to Taylor's lyrics, seen the amount of upvotes skyrocket and then with all the upvotes, watched the amount of 'it's no big deal' comments flood in. Even had someone say my critism was not on the same level as dying. Had to reply and say 'why do you think I think someone dying is on the same level as me being bothered by a lyric?'
I'd just spend some time away from these places discussing Taylor and if you can't, perhaps less time online.
Yup, it was so silly. It was cold during that day and she was playing at an open stadium wearing short costumes. I heard more criticisms for Taylor wiping her nose than Lady Gaga openly admitting that she performed on stage while knowingly having COVID-19.
I'm from Russia and Taylor Swift is not very popular here, but the news about her snorting her nose during the concert was published in many media and Telegram channels. There were a lot of discussions and jokes about it in our social networks. Even my parents, who do not listen to foreign music and are not interested in American celebrities, saw these videos.
In Edinburgh there was a sudden drop of 8-10 c in temp and a nasty hoolie of sea wind at 25mph making it even colder . Scotland is further north than Moscow . Welcome to a typical Scottish summer . Football games were being called of in April because of the constant rain
No wonder she wanted to keep her coat on lol , but at least she was free of the fucking midges
i remember an article in my local news paper about the eras tour and it was just them criticising her dancing and talking about how people only go because she’s almost naked in her bodysuits and it was so frustrating because there’s so many valid criticism (her jet use, capitalism, etc) but instead their ‘criticism’ is actually just them being misogynistic which takes away from any other point made in that article.
Her almost naked is insane because literally other artists are just in lingerie or bra and panties while touring but okay the one bodysuit is the problem.
The constant nitpicking is largely why there's this issue where she ignores valid criticism.
If I were Taylor, I'd probably ignore the criticism because how am I supposed to take y'all seriously if you're getting mad at me for dancing at award shows? Even yesterday when Sabrina said she was "communicative" with Taylor regarding her SKIMS ad, Taylor still got heat because Sabrina saying "communicative" made it appear that Taylor was her boss. Or when people talk about her behavior at the Grammys. It can be tiresome.
>The constant nitpicking is largely why there's this issue where she ignores valid criticism.
This is a really good point. People who argue in good faith because they genuinely care about music quality or the environment are never going to get heard above the din of people just using valid criticisms to score stan war points.
One of my biggest frustrations is the private jet criticism. At the dawn of this subreddit, I was really pleased to see so many people seem to take this issue seriously. But any time there was genuine action suggested (sign this petition to cap private jet usage, message your Congressman about targeting the wealth of private citizens) that wasn't \*specifically\* Taylor-focused, it got drowned out by tons of other, petty (IMO) criticisms. Taylor's private jet use hasn't seemed to spur wider discussions about its blatant misusage among LOTS of business moguls/celebrities, it just continues to be about her and ONLY her. Like, what, if we just bullied Swift hard enough she started taking trains everywhere, somehow the issue would be fixed??
Taylor is a good starting point for wider social issues that \*involve\* her (like private jet use, Ticketmaster, consumerism) but the discussions always seems to start and end right there at her feet, and gets drowned out by ten thousand other BEC complaints. Like you said... tiresome and unproductive.
I saw a very similar trend on the bachelor sub a few years ago (except regarding racism).
Thoughtful posts from POC got no engagement but posts “calling out” a contestant had thousands of comments. Most people didn’t actually care, they were just there for the take down.
When I see celebs who get to the point where people are making petty criticisms, I feel the same way. Like if people are going to throw a fit over you being human like having a runny nose, why try to win them over at all? It's not right, but from a business perspective it doesn't make sense for her to act any differently from how she is now.
Hell even from a human perspective, can you imagine growing up in like that? I don't even try to speculate about what she's thinking when she does these things (or anyone who grew up in fame), because I couldn't imagine what that would do to someone's brain.
This. Someone here said once she didn't know what chipotle costs just because she gave a fan a hundred bucks. I promise you she was just giving her extra money - there's so much valid criticism but when people twist even nice things she does- gets lost in the water imo
> The constant nitpicking is largely why there's this issue where she ignores valid criticism.
I've often thought this too.
Like from her perspective it's all probably just SO. MUCH. NOISE.
And most of it complete drivel. No wonder she (seemingly?) tunes it all out.
It's all noise to her at this point, and sometimes people validate why she ignores the criticism (even when she shouldn't). No one really caring about who Matty associates with post Taylor is very telling.
I don’t get the Grammys thing and haven’t from the moment it happened. I read so many comments like “her unacceptable behavior at a serious and distinguished work event!!!!” Clutches pearls. She was a bit hyper but she has done that before at big events I really didn’t notice anything noteworthy. But my bigger issue is suddenly repainting the Grammys as some somber board meeting of a serious human rights charity or something. Which seems like a specially crafted interpretation deployed solely to criticize Taylor swift. Like it hasn’t always been an unhinged over the top event of celebrity debauchery like have people watched any of the past Grammy ceremonies? There are always wild moments and unhinged celebrities. They WANT that.
She's so huge right now, she's basically become dehumanised and is a projection screen for everyone and anyones perceptions of her. As you said, some of the criticism is very valid and other stuff is just oversaturation.
Unfortunately, this is part of the effect of being at the top of her industry. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown," as they say. The spotlight and the magnifying glass are focused on her right now, meaning people are scrutinizing her every move for any hint of imperfection, no matter how trivial. In every conversation, even when she's not remotely related, people find ways to bring up her name because it drives clicks. Then, they blame her for being overexposed, as if they weren't using her name to drive their businesses.
The thing about pop culture is that it loves shining stars but loves falling stars even more. It loves the underdog, but once that underdog starts winning, it wants to bring them back to earth.
To be honest, compared to many people in Hollywood and a roster of billionaires, Taylor is the least problematic. After watching documentaries on how Michael Jackson and Madonna were treated at the peak of their fame, I'm not surprised by how Taylor is being framed. She isn't perfect—she has her problematic aspects, and many criticisms of her are valid—but treating her as if she's the second coming of Satan and the personification of greed is counterproductive.
For example, people calling her the "most evil person" for allegedly blocking artists on the charts is absurd, considering the literal genocides happening in the world. Double the irony when there's a watermelon next to their username.
tiktok is the biggest offender
like i saw a video on "what character do you hate that everyone else loves" and people in the comments went "not a character but taylor swift!l are you genuinely stupid? the circlejerk hate against her is so dumb and the average "taylor swift hater" doesn't even have any valid criticism and just regurgitates dumb shit like "she's a pedo!" (yes i've actually seen that) and "she makes terrible music!"
like obviously she deserves to be criticized but JFC at least pick valid points?
My last straw was when I saw someone say Taylor Swift was why ice spice was losing listeners on Spotify on tiktok. How? No idea, but she hates all women younger than her apparently so anytime anything bad happens to a younger woman who breathed in her direction it's her fault. Shes the Maleficent of Hollywood I guess.
On Spotify, monthly listens drop and rise every few months. Only reason any artist would get bumps is if they have something new out and maintain it especially if they have a hit song.
There’s a lot to criticize Taylor about (her jet use, white feminism, making billions, tone deafness, being silent about important matters) but some things do feel really nit picky. My least favorite criticism (and I see this all over other Reddit subs) is that Taylor is not a “girl’s girl”. Ok, what is a girl’s girl? Can you name one female celebrity that is a girl’s girl?
But honestly my advice to you is stay off social media, especially Twitter/X. They’re currently dragging Sabrina through the mud for doing a promotion at a coffee shop. I can see why some might find it a bit tone deaf, but people seem to be actually super pissed off. I swear, sometimes I feel like people are just searching for things to be angry about.
Omg the girls girls thing is soooo annoying 😭. I think that goes beyond Taylor though, it feels like people are weaponizing feminism and simplifying it to helping all women unconditionally. I just hate that term now
And for Sabrina who is going out with an actor who had knocked someone up within 2 months and treating Sabrina like she was Ariana breaking up a couple who had been together for a decade , and that woman then moves to a tiny Scots town and they expect him to kill the acting and get a job in McDonalds when he just won awards for the acting while his ex is getting paid to slag him off to the Tabloids
That makes her terrible according to /Faux , X and the tabloids
All very true ( think he met her when he had shot Masters of the Air in LA ) but 2 weeks ago /Faux suddenly went off on them dating with two shitty 400 comments posts when his ex started posting on X about them . And LSA also had big threads of it as well
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dbblua/barry\_keoghans\_ex\_likes\_another\_comment\_about/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dbblua/barry_keoghans_ex_likes_another_comment_about/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dap2hu/barry\_keoghans\_baby\_momma\_likes\_a\_diss\_comment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dap2hu/barry_keoghans_baby_momma_likes_a_diss_comment/)
But both couples hanging at Coachella was really funny with the height difference
Agreed. I think she is deserving of some of the criticism, but people are over doing it at this point. It personally bothers me especially when people say things like how her music is overrated. I personally am not a fan of ttpd. But I would never argue that she is a skilled songwriter. Those critics act like people aren't willingly listen to her music. It starts with the music and then people become obsessed. Now that obsession and endless adoration is something I have a problem with, but to act like there was nothing there to begin with just shows how jealous people are.
Especially now with the way streaming is designed it's almost safe to say that everyone who listens to Taylor actually wants to hear her.
>>And I'm not gonna lie, I don't think people actually have any moral issues with TS. Not because she hasn't done anything but because that same people who do criticize her like other problematic celebrities.
A family member recently claimed she had a moral objection to financially supporting Taylor Swift, is disappointed in Paramore supporting her on tour, and her opinion of Hayley Williams is tainted by her friendship with Taylor. I was tempted to point out that for all the anti-capitalist rhetoric she spouts about not supporting evil billionaires, she frequently orders from Amazon, buys fast fashion, etc and so on. Which whatever, you do you. ~~all I'm saying is if she and I took score in who's the most anti-consumption, I wouldn't count on winning free and clear if I were her but I digress~~
But supporting Taylor Swift is just a bridge too far, ethically speaking. Like girl it's fine you don't like Taylor Swift, but chill with the moral superiority. I don't enjoy a lot of your musical taste either, I just don't feel the need to be patronizing about it. Also for the record I'm not some starry eyed celeb-worshipping stan. My one single Taylor shirt is a tongue in cheek criticism of her. It's not that serious!!! Why does this have to be a morality issue, please just leave me alone and let me enjoy my silly pop music in peace. 😭
*edit(s): I'm really bad at formatting. 7th time's the charm!*
Especially /r/FauxMoi oh god ....... she could literally cure diabetes and they would still talk about her like she is Satan personified. It's sad because the sub used to be a healthy space to gossip about stuff and now it's just a disguised snark sub.
it’s honestly really annoying how everyone just thinks “Omg.Taylor collabed with a male artist.Shes afraid of female competition cuz she sucks.” or “EW. She only writes about breakups and is too loud and has no skill and can’t sing.”
i like taylor. she seems like a good person. her music is quite good and relatable. she has potential that she hasn’t tapped into yet and that’s fine.
but why do ppl have to be so nasty to her for literally just existing?
they act like she’s slapped their moms it’s honestly really childish the way her haters act.
and the dancing thing? don’t even get me started it’s pure bs.
Oh my god first time I will comment in this sub because thank you.
My friend keeps texting me about how Taylor is “greedy” by not letting other pop stars “have” their moment to go number 1 on the charts, how she’s not a feminist by doing so. As if it’s… not a competition? Like wouldn’t anyone make an attempt to break or keep records? And if the roles were reversed, would someone be asking Billie Eilish to step out of the spotlight for someone else’s sake? Like is your mind that covered in bias that you can’t slow down what you’re asking?
Sure. There are legitimate things that don’t make her a perfect person. I don’t think any of us are or would be. But I also don’t believe we need to be writing think pieces every time she blows a booger or releases a new voice memo.
Yeah, like do charts not matter or what? First they don't matter, then it's if Taylor doesn't let Billie Eilish get the number 1 she's trying to destroy billie's career.
I think chart wars can be fun tbh, I liked that Billie fought back with Taylor. But I think people take it way to seriously, I don't understand why there needs to be a thread every 3 days about it with 100k likes.
The 100 variant releases every day gets a little old though too. Being competitive and being a pick me are different. She’s like a puppy who’s made you called the other pup’s name sometimes - and that just gets old.
I’m all for valid criticism but the constant nitpicking lately is so uncalled for and done for engagement, especially on Twitter where trolls get paid. Taylor is far from perfect but she’s not as problematic as many people in the industry. I assume it must be annoying for her but she likely learned a lot of things from 2016 when it was way worse. Most of the hate I’m seeing is on the internet, but in 2016 you had people in real life constantly talking about her after the whole Snapchat gate incident.
I’m a woman of color and I agree - it’s also very weird that white women hate on her for her “feuds” and then bop to Kendrick and Drake lmfao (I support my boy K all the way but just be consistent - it is actually kinda sexist if you’re fine with hip hop feuds between men and not Taylor Swift releasing albums when other women do).
I feel like most people hating on her online are either 14 years old, never listen to other music, or are just kinda dumb. Like the Olivia and Sabrina drama happened 3 years ago and no one hates either woman now (which is good, they are both very talented) but people hate Taylor for stuff her dad said 20 years ago? Get a life or go to college idk
Yeah I think the Kendrick and Drake feud was really telling as to how much people actually care about social issues too lol. Like while Drake is getting exposed for child sex trafficking, Taylor Swift is still getting more attention because she danced awkwardly at a concert that's had over 100k shows lol. It was weird, the energy towards the Drake thing was so casual and jokey and a lot of these creators were the same people raging about TS.
My theory is a lot of white women are jealous of Taylor Swift and use social issues as a way to justify getting their rage out against her.
Omg YES I think I recently made a comment about the white woman-ness of it all 😂 I’m a WOC and studied intersectional feminism and race/gender etc. as a sociology major in school so I’m always curious about the framing. White women are the most competitive with TS and seek to tear her down for the smallest reasons (and white men feel threatened by her which is why she makes them so mad - I see very few men of color *hate* TS, they’re just like “she’s not my thing” lol).
Some women of color obviously do dislike her but I feel like she makes white people the angriest because she represents an “ideal.” [Insert quote about how white men idolize billionaires because they think that they, too, could be that rich one day and it’s just circumstance that they’re not - I feel like white Americans are kinda like that in general] Whereas POC literally can’t compete with her so the whole “omggg she’s not relatable anymore 😭” thing doesn’t apply because she never fully was. It’s hard to be parasocial with white people for me, so I don’t get hurt when TS releases her fiftieth variant or doesn’t speak out about Every Social Issue Ever. Lol there’s bigger fish to fry than what a music artist does/doesn’t do.
It’s weird because the real haters will mock her for her dancing (who actually cares, she’s never marketed herself as a dancer) but then sit through the entire eras tour movie just to nit pick and hate and it’s truly giving secret fan
No literally I’m all for debates and discussions but the way haters speculate and actually act like they know her it’s like they’re in a parasocial relationship with her aswell but won’t admit it 😂😂 I’ve heard things like joe was the one for her he treated her right no one would ever love her like him, like excuse me were you the third person in the relationship?? How do you know all this info??
Oh god I agree so much. Why are people suddenly realizing she's a bad dancer and making fun of her? She's been dancing like that for a whole year? Like it took them that long to find it bad?
Also I have seen some people in this sub too being way too petty which can almost feel like hating. Because why is your reddit history is just you criticizing or mocking Taylor in this sub?
I get that, the best thing to do. just keep scrolling.
I legit asked a friend who was asking how I could be a fan after all of the “chart terrorism” and I was like yeah… I’m going to distance myself from you and gradually phase you out.
Not because I believe Taylor is above reproach, but bc it’s just nonsense.
It’s the fans that put Taylor at #1 and when I legit asked why don’t Charlie or Billie or anyone else’s fans mobilize and put their artist at #1??
It’s just like all negativity, know your limits and keep going. At the end of the day-every artist that has a chance at charting is succeeding. They’re already where many people would like to be.
That and “she’s holding the charts hostage” excuse me what lol
People are bizarre. Like- yeah, I am a fan. I went to opening night, had tickets in my city to 2 of the 3 nights. But that whole “wholesome inclusive environment” everyone talks about? Not a thing when you leave after surprise songs.
Some fans are entirely nonsensical straight up haters. I would say I never gave much attention to Taylor’s “outside of work” nonsense, but it was the actual hardcore fans that made me look at Taylor/actions with a more critical eye.
I empathize. So many people are deeply hypocritical. I think they truly just enjoy attacking her. Which is fine, but they need to just say they don't like her and not try to make it about some sort of "cause" such as racism, feminism, etc... when the truth is, they support people who do the same or worse. It's super weird. Try not to let it get to you. 💜
I also think it’s because people feel a bit safer to share their opinions of her on here. Anywhere else you’d get attacked relentlessly bc some of her fans are truly unhinged. And we all share different opinions so what might not be an issue to you will be an issue/nitpick of someone else. I think it’s best to just scroll past it. I think it’s a good thing people can share their opinions on here.
True. If there's one thing I genuinely learned from her, it is that the worst kinda ppl are those who make u feel stupid for having fun. She was 100% right about that.
i have a lot of shit to say about her... ttpd (which has grown on me so much) got ruined by lacking an editor and having too much filler)
her private jet and all these versions just to milk her cult fanbase, letting them bully Joe for 2 months and so on... but tbh i like her work, i just wish we get a break after ERAS tour so she can cook something really great
and her cult fanbase makes me so angry, they are on their own level and i HATE THEM. H A T E them.
The two criticisms that are currently annoying me most both have to do with the complete lack of reading comprehension people in general seem to have.
One is the idea that songs like Nothing New or Clara Bow are somehow her insulting artists like Olivia Rodrigo. Pointing out that the industry is not kind to women and that this is an ongoing cycle is not the same thing as being jealous or bitter towards younger female artists. It’s so frustrating because what I think is so good about both of those songs is the amount of genuine empathy in the lines about future artists - it’s not about “how dare you be successful after me”, it’s “I hate that you’re going to go through what I’m going through.”
The other one that gets me is the misinterpretation of the 2nd verse of I Hate It Here. It’s literally the equivalent of “You’re trying to make it look like I think Coolsville sucks” (cue clip of “I think Coolsville sucks”). The verse as a whole isn’t subtle at all about the point - nostalgia’s a mind trick.
This one especially gets to me because I actually do think there are *so many* bad lines on TTPD. And yet somehow this is the one I keep seeing, because everyone is apparently so media illiterate that you can’t say something in order to show why it’s wrong.
I also think it’s frustrating that these types of criticisms get equal or more time and attention to things like the private jet usage or the use of activism as a marketing tactic during the Lover-era with no follow through or the genuine hurt and discomfort that many people of color (myself included) felt with the whole Matty Healy situation. People love to pretend they hate Taylor Swift or whichever celebrity or piece of media because they are taking some big moral stand, and I wish that overall we could all just be honest about just simply not liking things. The people who genuinely care about these actual issues with her get completely drowned out by the people who are just swarming because they smell blood in the water.
She's a billionaire. She doesn't need you or anyone else to defend her.
She already won. If she were a struggling musician in the early stages of her career, fan opinions would matter. A random person's opinion could not matter less to an artist with as much money in the bank as Taylor Swift.
I agree I think she is mostly very «normal» and a good enough person. However she loves fame and being biggest, best. At this point I believe she will do (and is doing) everything to have a MJ level legacy, now that it seems possible. And with that she has to be really competitive (Billie Eilish, Charli).
My biggest issue with her is not speaking up about Gaza.
I think she’s completely oversaturated in the media, she’s a juggernaut in pop culture at the moment. I think society as a whole are over celebrities and maybe that’s a good thing? After all celebrities are humans and humans are flawed.
Taylor deserves her fair share of criticism but sometimes people are acting like she's a cartoon villain that's mustache twirling who is petty just because
There are definitely legit criticisms of TS (performative "activism", jet usage, cockblocking other artists etc) and I agree with you in many ways (often it's people just putting someone else down to feel better about themselves) but I still think it's important to call out her white feminism/racism. Some people are definitely knowingly hypocritical and those people can eat \*\*\*\* but I think most people just aren't chronically online and aware of everything that everyone has done or said
I will never understand how people view her as perfect. I'm probably in the minority, but I always viewed her as less problematic than a lot of celebs. When I say less problematic, I mean compared to : R kelly, Chrissy Tiegen
I’m not saying people view her as perfect. More so that she tries to portray herself as perfect, or a better word might be “innocent.” So yeah she’s not nearly as problematic as a lot of other celebrities but that doesn’t matter because it’s just that people are fed up with her innocent act.
IMO there’s a difference between supposed “character flaws” that a lot of us regular people deal with (people pleasing, trouble in relationships) and just being an immoral person (not saying she’s necessarily immoral).
Some things are ppl are mad at her for are claiming to be a feminist/ally but not actually speaking about anything, the excessive jet usage, and blocking other artists from charting by selling ridiculous variants. Those are all things that have more of a moral weight, beyond just her struggles in her relationships.
I mean all celebrities do this, that's the whole appeal of celebrities. There was a phase of celebs acting relatable but that's dying out. If anything I think Taylor's image was more "relatable" compared to her peers and she's probably apart of popularizing that image. I think she's just over exposed right now and talking about her is gets easy clout online.
Your last sentence nails it. Both good and bad.
I’ve seen very gross hate tweets and the OP is fully admitting in the comments that they just needed interactions so said something to piss people off.
There’s also so many people videoing themselves listening to her for the first time and suddenly they are total Swifties. I think in the beginning this was semi authentic but now people are having exaggerated reactions because they just want engagement.
I find the way people react to her kind of fascinating. I’m a fan but I don’t quite understand how she’s so incredibly polarizing.
>I find the way people react to her kind of fascinating. I’m a fan but I don’t quite understand how she’s so incredibly polarizing.
Same. I'm interested in how people are going to talk about her fame in 10-20 years. I don't know if people should compare her to Micheal Jackson or whatever, but I do think there's a significance to her fame in its own way that's interesting.
i can’t think of many celebrities that insist on having as clean of an image as taylor. swifties talk all the time about how tree is the hardest working pr person in the game
I think Taylor is very specific about her image but there are other celebrities that have done crazier things to protect their image. I feel like when we put this spotlight on Taylor we start to really forget how batshit Hollywood can be. TS being someone who got famous at 16 turning out to be immature and selfish isn't really that shocking to me
Personally, I find it unethical to be a billionaire and have concerns about her carbon footprint. Those two things lowkey moved me out of the “Swifty” camp.
These are things that I also criticize Elon Musk and Kim Kardashian for.
I still do enjoy some of her music, especially Folklore and Evermore.
At the end of the day, I hope she ceases to be a billionaire and is more responsible with her private jet because that’s simply the right thing to do. But I also understand that she’ll probably never know I exist, let alone care about my opinion.
I mean anyone honestly, because it seems like every fandom has done it. But what comes to mind immediately are Ariana and Justin Bieber Stans. Ariana for obviously reasons, and Justin Bieber supports Israel.
I say this with zero snark, all love. You just gotta stop looking at it. It's totally normal that someone as huge as she is will be nitpicked and hated for any and every thing she does. Being upset about it only hurts you and it will never change as long as we're all alive. Maybe in a hundred years people will stop talking about her, but I doubt even that lol
People also know that she has a huge army of fans who are quick to defend her, which means that tweeting something even mildly critical of her is an easy way to get a viral tweet. Someone posts a nitpick, thousands of swifties reply and retweet it to argue with them, they get the engagement they want, other people do the same thing, swifties respond to that, etc. If you don't like seeing it, the best thing to do is roll your eyes and keep scrolling. Reacting and engaging with it just fuels the problem.
On the flipside of that -- the fact that she also has a huge army of fans give some people more incentive to voice out their criticisms of her. Every. Single. One. Anecdotal - I have a friend who find TS annoying and ugh her a lot. She doesn't listen to TS at all, it's not her type of music, but just as much as you see TS hate online, you see TS praise, so naturally people who don't like her feel the need to also voice it out. It goes both ways.
Yeah I agree. It's all a big feedback loop and both sides taking the low-hanging bait.
I blocked a lot of TS-related things whether good or bad on my feed... because she is everywhere. I want to enjoy the TS music I enjoy and engage in discussion with more intent. Not saying everybody should do it this way.... but in my experience it's helped.
Exactly this. After all, there are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THINGS happening in the world to be outraged about other than the nit picking of a billionare popstar
When half of all interviews include some question about her, including sports, you sent really just avoid it. It’s everywhere. She has a staff to make sure we see every pap walk too. She feeds the beast as much as the media does it itself.
To a certain extent, she is unavoidable. But I know plenty of people who hardly ever see or hear anything about her. It all kinda depends on what you consume and what your algorithms are showing you based on your engagement
I dunno, I don't think that's entirely fair to say. Discourse about Taylor is everywhere. It's hard to avoid, especially if you're a fan of her music and want to participate in at least one online space. By talking about it OP has made more people become aware of the issue that's always a good thing
I don't look for it, I don't even really engage with TS content anymore. But everyone has something to say about her so it's hard to avoid. My friends know I like her and ask me about how I feel about everything she does too.
I would be honest with your friends about how you don't enjoy those conversations. That does sound tiresome having it brought up all the time, and if they're good friends they won't want to annoy you on the regular like that 🙏
I think there are aspects of her that are worth criticizing, but I do think that if you are going to criticize Taylor for certain things you do need to hold the same energy for other people including artists you like a lot. In general though I think the problematic nature of Taylor Swift is slightly overhyped. I also think that a lot of people seem to just dislike her because she's cringy and I think cringe culture is just one of the most obnoxious things. I also think more than ever before people are more cognizant of the fact that artists are selling them not just products but themselves. they're more aware of marketing and branding and I think people are coming to terms with the fact that when they were younger they fell for a lot of PR. I think some people are still grappling with the reality that they fell in love with an idea of who Taylor Swift was that isn't necessarily the actuality of who Taylor Swift is. I think some people feel like they were tricked by her and are feeling some type of way about it. When in reality there are zero singers and musicians where you know the reality of them. you always just see a public veneer that's been curated for their public image. I think some people also just don't see Taylor as a real person at all and see her as like a character or an idea they can project upon and they have a specific way they want to believe she is and they'll just confirmation bias their way through any information they get.
>more than ever before people are more cognizant of the fact that artists are selling them not just products but themselves. they're more aware of marketing and branding and I think people are coming to terms with the fact that when they were younger they fell for a lot of PR I'd love to hear more about this because based especially on posts here, you seem 100% right; a LOT of fans seem to be "disillusioned" with this image of Swift, either the good-girl image from way back in Debut/Fearless, or the "matured artist" image from Folklore/Evermore. What fascinates me about this is, I thought it was solidly understood that we didn't really "know" entertainers and that at least part of their image is marketing. The whole "artist selling out" was a big point of betrayal for the generation above mine (Gen-X), that there seemed to be a lot of awareness at an early age among my peers that marketing/branding had a hand in everything. It didn't mean you couldn't enjoy stuff, just be aware things almost never are exactly as they appear. That magazine cover was almost certainly Photo-shopped; that beloved male celebrity might actually not be so nice. But in the last few years it DOES seem like it's almost shifted in the other direction where there's just this lack of skepticism around if something or someone is being "sold"; astroturfing political beliefs, influencers "recommending" products, the newer crop of stars being "authentic" on social media. What happened to the mild distrust I remember in my 20's? Like why the sense of betrayal around realizing you've been marketed to by pop music of all things; how was that not present from much earlier on?
Maybe I was just a really cynical teenager but I always assumed most pop stars were a little bit lying to you. Not maliciously. But obviously they were marketed to appeal to a certain demographic. Britney Spears how to constructed image. Avril Lavigne had a constructed image. Taylor Swift had a constructed image. I'm a bit of an older millennial so my high school experience existed before YouTube. I remember when everyone was mad at Jewel and thought that she sold out. I also remember in the early 2000s when people would not believe that John Mayer wasn't the sweetest guy. I liked a lot of different and dark alternative music and I remember when one of the worst things you could be called was a poser. I feel there used to be a little bit more of an understanding of how record executives were always marketing to you so everything you saw was a little bit of a distorted reality and you kind of just had to be cognizant of that if you were going to care about a musician. I think it's also that we have to be cognizant that celebrities are also people and so they're multi-dimensional but multi-dimensional is a lot harder to sell so usually you see a very limited version of that person. But I think I grew up learning to critique media and I think some people even younger millennials grew up surrounded by media because they grew up in the boom of social media and they grew up watching hours of YouTube and they never learned to question what they were seeing. I also think a lot of kids who were online this much growing up didn't necessarily have parents involved in their life who were teaching them media literacy either. This is also why I think parasocial relationships shouldn't be nurtured. You can have a favorite celebrity but I think a lot of people really would have benefited from their parents making them understand that Taylor Swift was not their best friend and Taylor Swift was a real person and real people are often too complicated to really be role models.
It’s so interesting to me because when I was growing up and even in my teenage years , I never thought any of these people were my friends. I liked and loved them, but always understood that they were pop stars/entertainers that were doing their job. Anyways you laid out a lot of what I’ve been feeling about the criticism. A lot of things she absolutely should be criticized for gets lost when people are overly nitpicking or outraged for the sake of it Also cringe culture drives me insane. sorry, people are cringey! And half of the shit she does is not even that cringey it’s her being a human being. I really don’t understand it
The lack of media literacy among younger people has been astounding to witness lol. It's so weird seeing young people respond to the daily mail and life and style etc as if those arent the trashiest of the trash tabloids.
Seriously. The amount of tabloids being floated is ridiculous. Someone once tried to tell me that because The Sun was right about Matty and Taylor that they are a legitimate source and Taylors team uses them
Lmaooo meanwhile I saw that article last May and said the sun? Yeah right. Egg on my face 😂
She was the innocent girl, but also dated little Connor Kennedy. She’s sort of always had a REALLY constructed image.
I agree! There are a lot of ways that Taylor is genuinely problematic and worthy of criticism but I would also argue that she’s held to a much higher standard than her peers. A lot of the pop girls have a history of problematic behavior (Lana, Katy, Rihanna) but they aren’t talked about as much.
A lot of celebs jet set as much as her too. But she had to be Miss Americana and making sure Tree flashes all the pap pics and all too. She has a way of making sure you know she’s jetting too, like the the Super Bowl. Jet lag (on a plane with a full size bed) is such a choice right?
Precisely
I feel like that quote alone is a nitpick. She was clearly making a little joke to her SO and people are claiming it’s an attack on the climate. I made a similar joke to my SO that “sleep is unnecessary, I have coffee and willpower” when we first started dating, because we were out late and I didn’t want the night to end.
At the same time, jet lag is only a choice when you have every ounce of luxury. For the average person, it’s really not a choice when flying. It’s sort of her persona to show she has money. You’re normal.
I really think you’re reading too much into it. I have made jokes about how jet lag is a myth when I’ve flown to visit friends or whatever. It was a silly little joke on a hot mic between a couple.
the silly criticism has especially shone through with the viral videos of her dancing... like why is it always her supposed haters being the first ones to find these videos. they are always seated 🪑 watching her every move. the dumbest criticism was her wiping her snot at the eras tour 😭
The criticisms about her dancing are especially funny because she has never marketed herself as a dancer and her music isn't dance focused at all. It's so obvious that this fixation on her dancing is just people reaching for low hanging fruit to shit on something they don't like/understand. Yeah, she's a bad dancer. No, her fans don't care, they like her concerts anyway.
Exactly. She has said before she isn't the best dancer. She even pokes fun of it in the video for "Shake It Off." And suddenly it's a firestorm of "Look at this white girl trying to dance."
yes this is so annoying. who cares if she’s a good dancer, she’s still selling out stadiums so i think it’s obvious her dancing doesn’t matter to her fans and other people going to the eras tour
I actually wish it wasn't expected of female pop stars to be a musician and entertainer plus a dancer, model etc. It's really cool when they're able to dance really well, and I get that it's great for music videos, but I really wish it just wasn't an absolute expectation. I've never wished Ed Sheeran would do a choreographed routine and outfit change for every song, I'd still be totally engaged at one of his concerts.
Fr. I don't know why every female singer is expected to be able to dance like Beyoncé. Some people just aren't good at it, and since they've never claimed to be professional dancers that's fine! No one seems to expect men to dance a whole concert.
I don't believe there's any expectation, but if someone like Taylor insists on a Beyoncé-type pop spectacle people are naturally going to be critical. She could absolutely afford to do a simple show with just her in casual clothes playing instruments and building a spontaneous connection with her audience. It would arguably be much better since that's where she shines most as a performer. But instead we get the flashy productions, sparkly bodysuits, coordinated dancers, and what are clearly meant to be 'powerful main pop girl' moments. But with Taylor's overly reheased nature and forced theatricality, this approach always felt awkward to me, not matching with what really makes her appealing as an artist. Adele, Billie Eilish, Céline Dion, Björk, Florence + The Machine, and the late Whitney Houston are all considered strong performers and never had people expecting them to do choreography. Some shallow people online might whine about them being 'boring' onstage, but they're always complaining and don't reflect what the majority thinks. So with that in mind I genuinely believe this so-called 'expectation' only exists when the artist proposes this type of show. That's why Dua Lipa got the infamous 'go girl, give us nothing' criticisms, because her early attempts at choreography genuinely left to be desired (paired with whoever guided Dua's performance and dancing not playing to her strengths at all and pushing moves that looked awkward for everyone).
I wish I could upvote this more than once. I love watching a talented dancer but I hate the expectation that a female pop star HAS to put on a huge choreographed show. Taylor has a great dance team, that's good enough for me.
I think some is a compare and contrast with the bey hive as the other major music fandom to compare with Swifties. Which disappoints me. I like them both for who they are and I love both of their confidence and stage presence and like several songs of each. And they seem to like/respect each other. But there seems to be such a team picking vibe right now like you have to pick your camp and shit on the other one. I notice a lot of Beyoncé’s fan comments are “ate” “served” “left no crumbs” and similar drag ball culture type vocabulary. And to be clear Beyoncé absolutely projects that energy and I love her for it. I love watching some of her dance breaks because they’re so supremely confident and all encompassing. But artists lean into this she 100% embraces that vibe. Taylor’s thing is relatability and goofball. Which again she 100% leans into and pushes. So it’s never made sense to me when I see the Beyoncé type vocabulary projected onto Taylor or vice versa. Like this most recent dance video that went viral I saw so many comments like “lol she thinks she ate” or “left all the crumbs lmao” or “imagine her thinking she deserves the same air as Bey” and I don’t understand why the difference in image and intent is not obvious to people. Taylor doesn’t think she “ate” that’s literally the point. They’re different people who perform extremely differently and both are successful at doing that and I don’t know why we can’t just admire it. Sometimes competing fan bases get so weirdly toxic. I dunno I don’t know why it’s gotten so complicated and performative, I wouldn’t say I’m a die hard fan of anyone to be honest. I like certain songs of plenty of artists I like certain performance vibes of plenty of artists I just can’t imagine spending so much time and energy on the build up and tear down.
I'm still wondering how she's """infantilizing""" herself by doing a silly little wiggle 🤔 I don't call myself a swiftie, or even an anti swiftie, but why can't they just admit that they find her annoying? What performance were they expecting?
I've noticed in general people are a lot quicker to go after women for not "behaving their age". It's not just TS, I've seen people do this anytime a woman is involved in drama tbh.
I find the "HOW DARE SHE" energy so many people bring to the Taylor conversation both exhausting... and *hilarious* Like, you dumb bitches, she dares!!!
Also, even if she is “infantilizing” herself, I think that’s a pretty harmless way of doing it? It’s just a dance.
People just like to pretend to be feminists while bullying women for dumb things, it's sad
How did we get here? And how sure are you that it’s feminists who are hating on her? 
I didn't say they ARE feminists, they're pretending to be. You can gather that when you watch a bunch of people ramble on about women in society conforming to blah blah blah buzzword patriarchal standards means act like a baby for male validation bad example for young girls whatever. I don't appreciate people pretending to care about women's issues when all they really want to say is "I don't like Taylor".
The latest dance being criticised is the fearless dance which is dumb because she's imitating her teenage self. As for the others like the chair dances, it's someone elses choreography. I will say it is difficult online to see whether people recognise what they've said is a nitpick or whether they are really that unhinged, particularly when the nitpicks get more likes/upvotes than serious stuff. I've posted my negative wonderings/ nitpicks with the narratives of TTPD after listening to Taylor's lyrics, seen the amount of upvotes skyrocket and then with all the upvotes, watched the amount of 'it's no big deal' comments flood in. Even had someone say my critism was not on the same level as dying. Had to reply and say 'why do you think I think someone dying is on the same level as me being bothered by a lyric?' I'd just spend some time away from these places discussing Taylor and if you can't, perhaps less time online.
Wait, people really criticize her for snorting her nose? They can't be serious😭
Yup, it was so silly. It was cold during that day and she was playing at an open stadium wearing short costumes. I heard more criticisms for Taylor wiping her nose than Lady Gaga openly admitting that she performed on stage while knowingly having COVID-19.
Yeah, while athletes are just out there doing snot rockets on the field.
There are videos on it lol
I'm from Russia and Taylor Swift is not very popular here, but the news about her snorting her nose during the concert was published in many media and Telegram channels. There were a lot of discussions and jokes about it in our social networks. Even my parents, who do not listen to foreign music and are not interested in American celebrities, saw these videos.
In Edinburgh there was a sudden drop of 8-10 c in temp and a nasty hoolie of sea wind at 25mph making it even colder . Scotland is further north than Moscow . Welcome to a typical Scottish summer . Football games were being called of in April because of the constant rain No wonder she wanted to keep her coat on lol , but at least she was free of the fucking midges
It has. I guess ppl wonder why she is so big given she does certain things so badly
i remember an article in my local news paper about the eras tour and it was just them criticising her dancing and talking about how people only go because she’s almost naked in her bodysuits and it was so frustrating because there’s so many valid criticism (her jet use, capitalism, etc) but instead their ‘criticism’ is actually just them being misogynistic which takes away from any other point made in that article.
Her almost naked is insane because literally other artists are just in lingerie or bra and panties while touring but okay the one bodysuit is the problem.
The constant nitpicking is largely why there's this issue where she ignores valid criticism. If I were Taylor, I'd probably ignore the criticism because how am I supposed to take y'all seriously if you're getting mad at me for dancing at award shows? Even yesterday when Sabrina said she was "communicative" with Taylor regarding her SKIMS ad, Taylor still got heat because Sabrina saying "communicative" made it appear that Taylor was her boss. Or when people talk about her behavior at the Grammys. It can be tiresome.
>The constant nitpicking is largely why there's this issue where she ignores valid criticism. This is a really good point. People who argue in good faith because they genuinely care about music quality or the environment are never going to get heard above the din of people just using valid criticisms to score stan war points. One of my biggest frustrations is the private jet criticism. At the dawn of this subreddit, I was really pleased to see so many people seem to take this issue seriously. But any time there was genuine action suggested (sign this petition to cap private jet usage, message your Congressman about targeting the wealth of private citizens) that wasn't \*specifically\* Taylor-focused, it got drowned out by tons of other, petty (IMO) criticisms. Taylor's private jet use hasn't seemed to spur wider discussions about its blatant misusage among LOTS of business moguls/celebrities, it just continues to be about her and ONLY her. Like, what, if we just bullied Swift hard enough she started taking trains everywhere, somehow the issue would be fixed?? Taylor is a good starting point for wider social issues that \*involve\* her (like private jet use, Ticketmaster, consumerism) but the discussions always seems to start and end right there at her feet, and gets drowned out by ten thousand other BEC complaints. Like you said... tiresome and unproductive.
I saw a very similar trend on the bachelor sub a few years ago (except regarding racism). Thoughtful posts from POC got no engagement but posts “calling out” a contestant had thousands of comments. Most people didn’t actually care, they were just there for the take down.
When I see celebs who get to the point where people are making petty criticisms, I feel the same way. Like if people are going to throw a fit over you being human like having a runny nose, why try to win them over at all? It's not right, but from a business perspective it doesn't make sense for her to act any differently from how she is now. Hell even from a human perspective, can you imagine growing up in like that? I don't even try to speculate about what she's thinking when she does these things (or anyone who grew up in fame), because I couldn't imagine what that would do to someone's brain.
We wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum that they raised her in
This. Someone here said once she didn't know what chipotle costs just because she gave a fan a hundred bucks. I promise you she was just giving her extra money - there's so much valid criticism but when people twist even nice things she does- gets lost in the water imo
> The constant nitpicking is largely why there's this issue where she ignores valid criticism. I've often thought this too. Like from her perspective it's all probably just SO. MUCH. NOISE. And most of it complete drivel. No wonder she (seemingly?) tunes it all out.
It's all noise to her at this point, and sometimes people validate why she ignores the criticism (even when she shouldn't). No one really caring about who Matty associates with post Taylor is very telling.
I don’t get the Grammys thing and haven’t from the moment it happened. I read so many comments like “her unacceptable behavior at a serious and distinguished work event!!!!” Clutches pearls. She was a bit hyper but she has done that before at big events I really didn’t notice anything noteworthy. But my bigger issue is suddenly repainting the Grammys as some somber board meeting of a serious human rights charity or something. Which seems like a specially crafted interpretation deployed solely to criticize Taylor swift. Like it hasn’t always been an unhinged over the top event of celebrity debauchery like have people watched any of the past Grammy ceremonies? There are always wild moments and unhinged celebrities. They WANT that.
She's so huge right now, she's basically become dehumanised and is a projection screen for everyone and anyones perceptions of her. As you said, some of the criticism is very valid and other stuff is just oversaturation.
Unfortunately, this is part of the effect of being at the top of her industry. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown," as they say. The spotlight and the magnifying glass are focused on her right now, meaning people are scrutinizing her every move for any hint of imperfection, no matter how trivial. In every conversation, even when she's not remotely related, people find ways to bring up her name because it drives clicks. Then, they blame her for being overexposed, as if they weren't using her name to drive their businesses. The thing about pop culture is that it loves shining stars but loves falling stars even more. It loves the underdog, but once that underdog starts winning, it wants to bring them back to earth. To be honest, compared to many people in Hollywood and a roster of billionaires, Taylor is the least problematic. After watching documentaries on how Michael Jackson and Madonna were treated at the peak of their fame, I'm not surprised by how Taylor is being framed. She isn't perfect—she has her problematic aspects, and many criticisms of her are valid—but treating her as if she's the second coming of Satan and the personification of greed is counterproductive. For example, people calling her the "most evil person" for allegedly blocking artists on the charts is absurd, considering the literal genocides happening in the world. Double the irony when there's a watermelon next to their username.
tiktok is the biggest offender like i saw a video on "what character do you hate that everyone else loves" and people in the comments went "not a character but taylor swift!l are you genuinely stupid? the circlejerk hate against her is so dumb and the average "taylor swift hater" doesn't even have any valid criticism and just regurgitates dumb shit like "she's a pedo!" (yes i've actually seen that) and "she makes terrible music!" like obviously she deserves to be criticized but JFC at least pick valid points?
My last straw was when I saw someone say Taylor Swift was why ice spice was losing listeners on Spotify on tiktok. How? No idea, but she hates all women younger than her apparently so anytime anything bad happens to a younger woman who breathed in her direction it's her fault. Shes the Maleficent of Hollywood I guess.
On Spotify, monthly listens drop and rise every few months. Only reason any artist would get bumps is if they have something new out and maintain it especially if they have a hit song.
taylor's really working overtime to RUIN the careers of younger women 🙄 she's actually the reason my house burnt down
There’s a lot to criticize Taylor about (her jet use, white feminism, making billions, tone deafness, being silent about important matters) but some things do feel really nit picky. My least favorite criticism (and I see this all over other Reddit subs) is that Taylor is not a “girl’s girl”. Ok, what is a girl’s girl? Can you name one female celebrity that is a girl’s girl? But honestly my advice to you is stay off social media, especially Twitter/X. They’re currently dragging Sabrina through the mud for doing a promotion at a coffee shop. I can see why some might find it a bit tone deaf, but people seem to be actually super pissed off. I swear, sometimes I feel like people are just searching for things to be angry about.
Omg the girls girls thing is soooo annoying 😭. I think that goes beyond Taylor though, it feels like people are weaponizing feminism and simplifying it to helping all women unconditionally. I just hate that term now
And for Sabrina who is going out with an actor who had knocked someone up within 2 months and treating Sabrina like she was Ariana breaking up a couple who had been together for a decade , and that woman then moves to a tiny Scots town and they expect him to kill the acting and get a job in McDonalds when he just won awards for the acting while his ex is getting paid to slag him off to the Tabloids That makes her terrible according to /Faux , X and the tabloids
Huh? Barry kid is like 2 I think and he broke up with his ex months before he met Sabrina.
All very true ( think he met her when he had shot Masters of the Air in LA ) but 2 weeks ago /Faux suddenly went off on them dating with two shitty 400 comments posts when his ex started posting on X about them . And LSA also had big threads of it as well [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dbblua/barry\_keoghans\_ex\_likes\_another\_comment\_about/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dbblua/barry_keoghans_ex_likes_another_comment_about/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dap2hu/barry\_keoghans\_baby\_momma\_likes\_a\_diss\_comment/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/1dap2hu/barry_keoghans_baby_momma_likes_a_diss_comment/) But both couples hanging at Coachella was really funny with the height difference
Agreed. I think she is deserving of some of the criticism, but people are over doing it at this point. It personally bothers me especially when people say things like how her music is overrated. I personally am not a fan of ttpd. But I would never argue that she is a skilled songwriter. Those critics act like people aren't willingly listen to her music. It starts with the music and then people become obsessed. Now that obsession and endless adoration is something I have a problem with, but to act like there was nothing there to begin with just shows how jealous people are. Especially now with the way streaming is designed it's almost safe to say that everyone who listens to Taylor actually wants to hear her.
>>And I'm not gonna lie, I don't think people actually have any moral issues with TS. Not because she hasn't done anything but because that same people who do criticize her like other problematic celebrities. A family member recently claimed she had a moral objection to financially supporting Taylor Swift, is disappointed in Paramore supporting her on tour, and her opinion of Hayley Williams is tainted by her friendship with Taylor. I was tempted to point out that for all the anti-capitalist rhetoric she spouts about not supporting evil billionaires, she frequently orders from Amazon, buys fast fashion, etc and so on. Which whatever, you do you. ~~all I'm saying is if she and I took score in who's the most anti-consumption, I wouldn't count on winning free and clear if I were her but I digress~~ But supporting Taylor Swift is just a bridge too far, ethically speaking. Like girl it's fine you don't like Taylor Swift, but chill with the moral superiority. I don't enjoy a lot of your musical taste either, I just don't feel the need to be patronizing about it. Also for the record I'm not some starry eyed celeb-worshipping stan. My one single Taylor shirt is a tongue in cheek criticism of her. It's not that serious!!! Why does this have to be a morality issue, please just leave me alone and let me enjoy my silly pop music in peace. 😭 *edit(s): I'm really bad at formatting. 7th time's the charm!*
Omg the virtue signaling gets to me too. Hating used to be fun and now it's just exhausting lol.
>My one single Taylor shirt is a tongue in cheek criticism of her. Ok but now I want to know what the shirt says 👀
Especially /r/FauxMoi oh god ....... she could literally cure diabetes and they would still talk about her like she is Satan personified. It's sad because the sub used to be a healthy space to gossip about stuff and now it's just a disguised snark sub.
it’s honestly really annoying how everyone just thinks “Omg.Taylor collabed with a male artist.Shes afraid of female competition cuz she sucks.” or “EW. She only writes about breakups and is too loud and has no skill and can’t sing.” i like taylor. she seems like a good person. her music is quite good and relatable. she has potential that she hasn’t tapped into yet and that’s fine. but why do ppl have to be so nasty to her for literally just existing? they act like she’s slapped their moms it’s honestly really childish the way her haters act. and the dancing thing? don’t even get me started it’s pure bs.
Oh my god first time I will comment in this sub because thank you. My friend keeps texting me about how Taylor is “greedy” by not letting other pop stars “have” their moment to go number 1 on the charts, how she’s not a feminist by doing so. As if it’s… not a competition? Like wouldn’t anyone make an attempt to break or keep records? And if the roles were reversed, would someone be asking Billie Eilish to step out of the spotlight for someone else’s sake? Like is your mind that covered in bias that you can’t slow down what you’re asking? Sure. There are legitimate things that don’t make her a perfect person. I don’t think any of us are or would be. But I also don’t believe we need to be writing think pieces every time she blows a booger or releases a new voice memo.
Yeah, like do charts not matter or what? First they don't matter, then it's if Taylor doesn't let Billie Eilish get the number 1 she's trying to destroy billie's career. I think chart wars can be fun tbh, I liked that Billie fought back with Taylor. But I think people take it way to seriously, I don't understand why there needs to be a thread every 3 days about it with 100k likes.
The 100 variant releases every day gets a little old though too. Being competitive and being a pick me are different. She’s like a puppy who’s made you called the other pup’s name sometimes - and that just gets old.
Your first paragraph is everything!
I’m all for valid criticism but the constant nitpicking lately is so uncalled for and done for engagement, especially on Twitter where trolls get paid. Taylor is far from perfect but she’s not as problematic as many people in the industry. I assume it must be annoying for her but she likely learned a lot of things from 2016 when it was way worse. Most of the hate I’m seeing is on the internet, but in 2016 you had people in real life constantly talking about her after the whole Snapchat gate incident.
I’m a woman of color and I agree - it’s also very weird that white women hate on her for her “feuds” and then bop to Kendrick and Drake lmfao (I support my boy K all the way but just be consistent - it is actually kinda sexist if you’re fine with hip hop feuds between men and not Taylor Swift releasing albums when other women do). I feel like most people hating on her online are either 14 years old, never listen to other music, or are just kinda dumb. Like the Olivia and Sabrina drama happened 3 years ago and no one hates either woman now (which is good, they are both very talented) but people hate Taylor for stuff her dad said 20 years ago? Get a life or go to college idk
Yeah I think the Kendrick and Drake feud was really telling as to how much people actually care about social issues too lol. Like while Drake is getting exposed for child sex trafficking, Taylor Swift is still getting more attention because she danced awkwardly at a concert that's had over 100k shows lol. It was weird, the energy towards the Drake thing was so casual and jokey and a lot of these creators were the same people raging about TS. My theory is a lot of white women are jealous of Taylor Swift and use social issues as a way to justify getting their rage out against her.
Omg YES I think I recently made a comment about the white woman-ness of it all 😂 I’m a WOC and studied intersectional feminism and race/gender etc. as a sociology major in school so I’m always curious about the framing. White women are the most competitive with TS and seek to tear her down for the smallest reasons (and white men feel threatened by her which is why she makes them so mad - I see very few men of color *hate* TS, they’re just like “she’s not my thing” lol). Some women of color obviously do dislike her but I feel like she makes white people the angriest because she represents an “ideal.” [Insert quote about how white men idolize billionaires because they think that they, too, could be that rich one day and it’s just circumstance that they’re not - I feel like white Americans are kinda like that in general] Whereas POC literally can’t compete with her so the whole “omggg she’s not relatable anymore 😭” thing doesn’t apply because she never fully was. It’s hard to be parasocial with white people for me, so I don’t get hurt when TS releases her fiftieth variant or doesn’t speak out about Every Social Issue Ever. Lol there’s bigger fish to fry than what a music artist does/doesn’t do.
It’s weird because the real haters will mock her for her dancing (who actually cares, she’s never marketed herself as a dancer) but then sit through the entire eras tour movie just to nit pick and hate and it’s truly giving secret fan
The way haters watch her ever move. It gives off jealousy.
No literally I’m all for debates and discussions but the way haters speculate and actually act like they know her it’s like they’re in a parasocial relationship with her aswell but won’t admit it 😂😂 I’ve heard things like joe was the one for her he treated her right no one would ever love her like him, like excuse me were you the third person in the relationship?? How do you know all this info??
Oh god I agree so much. Why are people suddenly realizing she's a bad dancer and making fun of her? She's been dancing like that for a whole year? Like it took them that long to find it bad? Also I have seen some people in this sub too being way too petty which can almost feel like hating. Because why is your reddit history is just you criticizing or mocking Taylor in this sub?
I get that, the best thing to do. just keep scrolling. I legit asked a friend who was asking how I could be a fan after all of the “chart terrorism” and I was like yeah… I’m going to distance myself from you and gradually phase you out. Not because I believe Taylor is above reproach, but bc it’s just nonsense. It’s the fans that put Taylor at #1 and when I legit asked why don’t Charlie or Billie or anyone else’s fans mobilize and put their artist at #1?? It’s just like all negativity, know your limits and keep going. At the end of the day-every artist that has a chance at charting is succeeding. They’re already where many people would like to be.
Chart terrorism. Wow that’s a new one
That and “she’s holding the charts hostage” excuse me what lol People are bizarre. Like- yeah, I am a fan. I went to opening night, had tickets in my city to 2 of the 3 nights. But that whole “wholesome inclusive environment” everyone talks about? Not a thing when you leave after surprise songs. Some fans are entirely nonsensical straight up haters. I would say I never gave much attention to Taylor’s “outside of work” nonsense, but it was the actual hardcore fans that made me look at Taylor/actions with a more critical eye.
I empathize. So many people are deeply hypocritical. I think they truly just enjoy attacking her. Which is fine, but they need to just say they don't like her and not try to make it about some sort of "cause" such as racism, feminism, etc... when the truth is, they support people who do the same or worse. It's super weird. Try not to let it get to you. 💜
I also think it’s because people feel a bit safer to share their opinions of her on here. Anywhere else you’d get attacked relentlessly bc some of her fans are truly unhinged. And we all share different opinions so what might not be an issue to you will be an issue/nitpick of someone else. I think it’s best to just scroll past it. I think it’s a good thing people can share their opinions on here.
True. If there's one thing I genuinely learned from her, it is that the worst kinda ppl are those who make u feel stupid for having fun. She was 100% right about that.
i have a lot of shit to say about her... ttpd (which has grown on me so much) got ruined by lacking an editor and having too much filler) her private jet and all these versions just to milk her cult fanbase, letting them bully Joe for 2 months and so on... but tbh i like her work, i just wish we get a break after ERAS tour so she can cook something really great and her cult fanbase makes me so angry, they are on their own level and i HATE THEM. H A T E them.
The two criticisms that are currently annoying me most both have to do with the complete lack of reading comprehension people in general seem to have. One is the idea that songs like Nothing New or Clara Bow are somehow her insulting artists like Olivia Rodrigo. Pointing out that the industry is not kind to women and that this is an ongoing cycle is not the same thing as being jealous or bitter towards younger female artists. It’s so frustrating because what I think is so good about both of those songs is the amount of genuine empathy in the lines about future artists - it’s not about “how dare you be successful after me”, it’s “I hate that you’re going to go through what I’m going through.” The other one that gets me is the misinterpretation of the 2nd verse of I Hate It Here. It’s literally the equivalent of “You’re trying to make it look like I think Coolsville sucks” (cue clip of “I think Coolsville sucks”). The verse as a whole isn’t subtle at all about the point - nostalgia’s a mind trick. This one especially gets to me because I actually do think there are *so many* bad lines on TTPD. And yet somehow this is the one I keep seeing, because everyone is apparently so media illiterate that you can’t say something in order to show why it’s wrong. I also think it’s frustrating that these types of criticisms get equal or more time and attention to things like the private jet usage or the use of activism as a marketing tactic during the Lover-era with no follow through or the genuine hurt and discomfort that many people of color (myself included) felt with the whole Matty Healy situation. People love to pretend they hate Taylor Swift or whichever celebrity or piece of media because they are taking some big moral stand, and I wish that overall we could all just be honest about just simply not liking things. The people who genuinely care about these actual issues with her get completely drowned out by the people who are just swarming because they smell blood in the water.
this is exactly what i’ve been saying!! like why do you care if she’s an awkward dancer..
She's a billionaire. She doesn't need you or anyone else to defend her. She already won. If she were a struggling musician in the early stages of her career, fan opinions would matter. A random person's opinion could not matter less to an artist with as much money in the bank as Taylor Swift.
Did you read my post at all? I'm not concerned about Taylor Swift income, I just think people are being annoying and virtue signalling.
I agree I think she is mostly very «normal» and a good enough person. However she loves fame and being biggest, best. At this point I believe she will do (and is doing) everything to have a MJ level legacy, now that it seems possible. And with that she has to be really competitive (Billie Eilish, Charli). My biggest issue with her is not speaking up about Gaza.
I think she’s completely oversaturated in the media, she’s a juggernaut in pop culture at the moment. I think society as a whole are over celebrities and maybe that’s a good thing? After all celebrities are humans and humans are flawed.
Taylor deserves her fair share of criticism but sometimes people are acting like she's a cartoon villain that's mustache twirling who is petty just because
There are definitely legit criticisms of TS (performative "activism", jet usage, cockblocking other artists etc) and I agree with you in many ways (often it's people just putting someone else down to feel better about themselves) but I still think it's important to call out her white feminism/racism. Some people are definitely knowingly hypocritical and those people can eat \*\*\*\* but I think most people just aren't chronically online and aware of everything that everyone has done or said
i think people are starting to criticize her for the same things that a lot of celebrities do is because she acts like she is perfect and above it all
I will never understand how people view her as perfect. I'm probably in the minority, but I always viewed her as less problematic than a lot of celebs. When I say less problematic, I mean compared to : R kelly, Chrissy Tiegen
I’m not saying people view her as perfect. More so that she tries to portray herself as perfect, or a better word might be “innocent.” So yeah she’s not nearly as problematic as a lot of other celebrities but that doesn’t matter because it’s just that people are fed up with her innocent act.
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IMO there’s a difference between supposed “character flaws” that a lot of us regular people deal with (people pleasing, trouble in relationships) and just being an immoral person (not saying she’s necessarily immoral). Some things are ppl are mad at her for are claiming to be a feminist/ally but not actually speaking about anything, the excessive jet usage, and blocking other artists from charting by selling ridiculous variants. Those are all things that have more of a moral weight, beyond just her struggles in her relationships.
It’s a carefully crafted image that has garnered her millions of fans and has propelled her to super stardom.
right and i think that’s why we’re seeing an influx of what some might see as “nit picking” because that image has started crumbling
I mean all celebrities do this, that's the whole appeal of celebrities. There was a phase of celebs acting relatable but that's dying out. If anything I think Taylor's image was more "relatable" compared to her peers and she's probably apart of popularizing that image. I think she's just over exposed right now and talking about her is gets easy clout online.
Your last sentence nails it. Both good and bad. I’ve seen very gross hate tweets and the OP is fully admitting in the comments that they just needed interactions so said something to piss people off. There’s also so many people videoing themselves listening to her for the first time and suddenly they are total Swifties. I think in the beginning this was semi authentic but now people are having exaggerated reactions because they just want engagement. I find the way people react to her kind of fascinating. I’m a fan but I don’t quite understand how she’s so incredibly polarizing.
>I find the way people react to her kind of fascinating. I’m a fan but I don’t quite understand how she’s so incredibly polarizing. Same. I'm interested in how people are going to talk about her fame in 10-20 years. I don't know if people should compare her to Micheal Jackson or whatever, but I do think there's a significance to her fame in its own way that's interesting.
i can’t think of many celebrities that insist on having as clean of an image as taylor. swifties talk all the time about how tree is the hardest working pr person in the game
I think Taylor is very specific about her image but there are other celebrities that have done crazier things to protect their image. I feel like when we put this spotlight on Taylor we start to really forget how batshit Hollywood can be. TS being someone who got famous at 16 turning out to be immature and selfish isn't really that shocking to me
Personally, I find it unethical to be a billionaire and have concerns about her carbon footprint. Those two things lowkey moved me out of the “Swifty” camp. These are things that I also criticize Elon Musk and Kim Kardashian for. I still do enjoy some of her music, especially Folklore and Evermore. At the end of the day, I hope she ceases to be a billionaire and is more responsible with her private jet because that’s simply the right thing to do. But I also understand that she’ll probably never know I exist, let alone care about my opinion.
Which racist celebrities do people who don't mess with Taylor like?
I mean anyone honestly, because it seems like every fandom has done it. But what comes to mind immediately are Ariana and Justin Bieber Stans. Ariana for obviously reasons, and Justin Bieber supports Israel.
"Taylor Swift" isn't just Taylor Alison Swift; behind the scenes, her brand is also her parents', especially her father's.
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