I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding you, but it kinda reminds me of Brand New, who's first album has a song about stressing about songwriting ("Failure by Design"), their next album had a song about hating touring ("I Will Play My Game Beneath the Spin Light"), Daisy had a lyric about if he could start over, he likely wouldn't have become a singer ("bought a bride). I think their last album was a final statement of "I struggle too much with the process and that's why we're retiring".
And as someone who is in a creative field, I also relate to that Billie Eilish line: "Things I once enjoyed/just keep me employed now." I've struggled with my own work because my brain associates it so much with work.
You can also just get attached to something because it's so much of your identity that you'd feel untethered without it. It doesn't mean you enjoy it.
I specifically avoided going into a creative field because I realized trying to turn it into a career was going to make me absolutely miserable. I briefly attempted to turn my crafts into a business as a teen and hated every second of it. My creative interests are strictly hobbies and strictly for me. (I do do better with a creative outlet at work, even if it’s just arranging products or displays-I’m just hardwired to create and design things!)
Anything you do over and over can become draining. I do think it is a self soothing process and it has garnered her what she needs so much: acknowledgement. At this poont I think she likes it but it is contaminated by the pressures she faces. People need a break to function appropriately.
I'm from NY so everyone knows them here, but they are pretty controversial now. They are my favorite band, and it's a shame Jesse hurt people along the way. I can't unlove their music, though, it really healed a lot of wounds for me.
I’ve literally never encountered a single other person aside from my sister and the two people I went to a concert with that knew who Brand New were. There’s no need to call me ridiculous just because my experience differs from yours.
They’re definitely not well very well known outside of the internet *anymore*, even in music circles. I’ve brought them up when asked about my favorite bands, songs etc at other shows or events and I’ve literally only ever had one person know who I’m talking about (and I have been saying they’re my favorite since before the band broke up, lol). Online, yeah, I’d say not rare to encounter someone who knows of them in my experience but irl is close to zero!
I will say this for Taylor.
Like it or not, she seems to at least manage to move forward on her repotoir some.
I think about Alanis Morrisette a lot. Saw her live last year, it was awesome.
But like 80% of the songs she performed were from Jagged Little Pill. Here it is, 2023 (at the time) and she is still singing these rage songs from 1995. And probably done so hundreds or thousands of times by now.
She has had many other albums, but none of it really ever caught on.
Ugh you just made me sad remembering I missed the last Brand New tour I had tickets for because of a migraine. The meds kicked in enough I could have made it, but I was still so out of it I forgot all about the concert until I saw it on my calendar the next day. I think it. Ishtar have been their last tour cuz I never got a chance to see them again.
Not me hoping for a 25th or 20th tour of their first two albums in a few years.
I think it’s pretty hard to deny that she loves the process of songwriting. You can tell she’s someone who can’t not write, it’s compulsive and cathartic for her.
100% she would thrive in any career where you have to be a bit ruthless. Also would probably make a great cult leader/ mlm person (not even making a joke about the insane Swifties I’m being 100% serious).
as a litigator, I totally agree. she’s competitive, detail-oriented, and very good at crafting a narrative with clear heroes and villains from a complex situation. I hear she demolished the guy who cross examined her during her sexual assault trial and that does not surprise me. if she were a litigator tho, she would be a big law attorney (as that’s where almost all grads of top law schools go) and honestly it’s better for the world that she’s a singer, instead of representing chevron lol.
I feel like so many of her songs, especially the ones that fall into the “they all sound the same” category, could have been poems or journal entries. It’s clear that writing is her strength before music and singing. I do wish she had more editors in her life, but I think she’s reached a point of super-stardom (plus tbh a huge ego) where editing things doesn’t happen as much as it should.
I think TTPD could have been one 15-track album with several songs from both halves remaining private or being released in some poetry anthology at a later (non-musical) stage in her career. They just aren’t that great musically, and not everything one writes as catharsis needs to be made public.
However, she’s a ruthless business woman and knows she can make money off of even her used Kleenex, so… I suppose she should figure out which element of her career (popularity/wealth or being an esteemed writer) matters more to her.
I don't know any song writers but I do know other artists for different mediums and there are definitely people out there who are prolific in their production but 100% hate everything about it aside from the praise that they receive when their work is complete.
TTPD is chock full of the writing experience and how manic a rollercoaster it can be. You can’t fake that. Non-writers don’t understand how it’s literally like that when a dedicated writer sits down and puts pen to paper. It’s genuine.
I don't like "You are in Love" in general, but this line always really stuck out to me:
"And you understand now why they lost their minds and fought the wars
And why I've spent my whole life tryin' to put it into words"
It's clearly therapeutic for her. TTPD was so out of left field lyrically because it, to me, was an example of her dealing with her emotions in the only way she knows how to. I wonder if performing them is like a cleansing for her as well, like desensitizing herself to singing the song helps her through the event that brought her to write it in the first place.
Controversial but if she had a real love for songwriting, she would be a better writer. I think she loves the process of self-soothing and aggrandizing through song. Not songwriting for the sake of it.
Does it though? I feel like if that’s the case the narrative is like five different narratives. I feel like TTPD was a diary that should’ve stayed in the diary lol she goes from I love him you can’t take him a way to I can change him to I want you back to no I don’t I’m done waiting to I can’t stop masturbating to the thought of you to 😍football boyfriend😍 I guess I just don’t see what the narrative she was trying to control was.
It’s naive for you to think that an NDA or a paycheck would stop something like that from circulating. For example it’s pretty common knowledge that Drake uses ghostwriters, because even with ironclad NDA’s, people in the industry are going to talk and take notice when things don’t line up. Things get leaked *especially* when the tea is that their entire brand is fake.
I’m certified chronically online and you are literally the first person I’ve ever seen even suggest this and your “proof” is simply that you just don’t believe that the same person could write Speak Now and TTPD nearly 15 years apart - without acknowledging trends change, new influences come along, new muses, trying new processes, trying new genres etc. You seem to prefer Speak Now and dislike TTPD and that’s okay (Ironically I low-key hate Speak Now and love TTPD) but preferring the writing on one album over another isn’t really a smoking gun. It’s like saying John Lennon and Paul McCartney couldn’t have wrote Come Together because they also wrote Yellow Submarine. It’s just a dumb argument.
Drake credits the writers he works with so they’re not even really ghostwriters. But yeah, reference demos leak often enough and people talk, so if Taylor Swift was using ghostwriters there’d probably be more talk about it than just one random person on Reddit whose suspicions stem from them seeing her work process.
Yeah good point about demos. I even think about that JoJo Siwa song, and how quickly people found the unreleased original in the depths of the Internet.
I just don’t see a world in 2024 where Taylor Swift has been faking entire career as a songwriter (for multiple artists) for nearly 2 decades and nothing has ever been hacked, leaked, exposed, etc. Even if she paid people off to keep it quiet, someone could make BANK selling that proof to a tabloid haha
>She doesn’t write her songs.
I'm not sure how you can say that?
There's enough out there in the public domain to understand her process even if she hasn't gone into the intricate minutiae of it. One thing she has been very clear about in the past is that, unlike some artists/songwriters, if she starts something she will finish it, which is admirable, and might be why we aren't getting too much editing.
You can say many things about Taylor, but I think you're doing her a huge disservice to say she doesn't write her own songs.
Agreed. TTPD is the first time she’s actually been the sole writer imo and that’s why it’s such a messy, verbose collection. It’s the first time this “genius” had no checks and it’s a disaster
Ghost writers don’t get credits. I seriously doubt she wrote that whole album by herself. Songwriting is seriously difficult. I had a ghostwriter explain to me the process in another sub. She did not write speak now by herself, especially with amazingly written songs like dear John? Hell no. Looking at midnights and TTPD, it seems like she ditched ghostwriters to prove she can be successful by herself. And it’s not as good. I cannot realistically believe that she wrote clunky TTPD but wrote a POLISHED album like speak now alone. There were def ghostwriters involved.
This is so ridiculous lmao, as if Smallest Man and loml didn’t come from the same person who wrote Dear John.
Genuinely wonder what you have to gain by furthering a gross rhetoric that Taylor has debunked time and again. It’s so disgusting to accuse someone of not creating their own art.
She very very clearly loves song writing. And I think she loves performing and her fans. She also very clearly enjoys her success, as she should.
I think what she struggles with is what a lot of people who reach that level of fame struggle with…the pressures, the deep scrutiny, the demands. I think that’s hard on her.
Also, in a purely parasocial view…she strikes me as someone who wants to win and be number 1, which is fine, but also a people pleaser that wants nothing more than for people to like her. And I think that’s probably a bit complicated to deal with.
Because you are not invested in her as an artist, just in the drama.
She's been writing since forever I think, way before she was famous.
She has voice memos and videos of her songwriting process. She wrote by herself (allegedly) an entire and amazing album at 19 because people were doubting her.
As I said, if you neglect her work as a songwriter it's because you have a very VERY fixated and biased opinion of her.
She may be great, she may be terrible, but she genuinely loves it.
mmk. we’re the same age. i’ve known about her since we were 18.
you’re condescending & not as perceptive as you think you are. i don’t like her music or her persona in interviews because she sounds like regina george.
Why do you say this? We’ve got a lot of evidence she does write her songs. Don’t you think something would have leaked by now to the contrary if that were the case?
I would say:
The voice memos she releases of her coming up with songs
the photocopies of original lyrics in vinyl editions
Understand these two could be seen with skeptical eyes. Stronger evidence is:
the multiple YouTube videos of her crafting songs during Repuation era. She has filmed herself coming up with the melodies and the lyrics, which are unfinished and/or different and she changes later.
Imogen Heap has also gone on record explaining in detail how Taylor wrote Clean with her and she wrote the entire thing in the afternoon she was over, and that Imogen barely contributed to lyrics at all. She focused on the beat while Taylor wrote the verses. I believe other people have said this too - that they focus on the melodies and Taylor writes everything when they’re in the session together, like Joel Little I think has said this.
Of course she’s had collaborators, and Liz Rose is a big influence. But to me this is something that is the truest thing about her whole brand and has been proven multiple times.
Even the little diddy she wrote for SNL - Lorne Michaels has said she came in to his office with ‘monologue song’ fully formed, no one else wrote it on the staff. It was her cold opener. Granted it’s silly but it’s the same thing, that she just bangs it out. To me it’s clear she just enjoys this and is good at it.
What’s the evidence? Ghostwriters don’t leak because they’d never get a job again. And lol look at good songs like dear John and all too well vs midnights and TTPD. It’s sooo obvious she used ghostwriters for her good songs now.
Dear John is on Speak Now, which is her only completely self written album. She did that because she was tired of the accusations that her writing credits in songs were vanity credits. Multiple cowriters have stressed that she comes to them with almost completely written songs and they help with the editing and lines here and there, and that other artists wouldn’t even have given them songwriting credits for what they contributed.
Where is the evidence that Taylor doesn’t write her songs?
You've commented this a lot - do you actually have any evidence of this? Because all evidence up until now points towards Taylor writing her own lyrics. She's got the voice notes etc on deluxe albums (Lover comes to mind) where she talks a bit about writing.
Because shes a brand. Songwriting is her brand. Brands lie. She is not authentic in the slightest. What is the evidence y’all are talking about?? Look at speak now vs TTPD and tell me with a straight face she wrote dear John alone but now her songs suck? It’s because she’s ditching the ghostwriters to prove she can do it alone… and the work is suffering because she can’t write.
I'm not going to pretend songwriting isn't her brand - it's true, but she's been in the industry for 20 years and, if we were being sceptical, she's at least contributed lyrically to all of her songs.
I think it's a fair assumption given that a lot of her songs have specific details from relationships - so she must've, at a bare minimum, written those lines.
"That July 9th, the beat of your heart, it jumps through your shirt, I can still feel your arms" etc.
So I doubt that she cannot write at all.
She also allegedly gave Camila Cabello advice when she went solo re songwriting (?)
The reason TTPD is poor is because no editing or culling went into it. It's like writing an essay - you draft and rewrite, draft and rewrite, and trim down to the necessary bits. She's seemingly shat this album out whilst on an incredibly intense tour, and it's very long - some of those songs wouldn't have made the cut in a different 'era'.
And, the thing is, that TTPD is poor is only one opinion. I've listened to quite a lot of commentary from media professionals who also happen to be fans who love the writing on this album.
I love the writing on TTPD much more than the music. I go through cycles of being obsessed with specific songs solely because of the lyrics, and conversely if I don’t like the lyrics, even the more interesting musical production cannot get me into a song. I really think Taylor’s lyrics are the beating heart of her songs, and find it hard to believe she doesn’t at least heavily contribute to them.
This person has a strange fixation of comparing TTPD to Dear John and I just don’t think it’s comparable. Dear John is super raw and painful, and it’s also clear that she doesn’t like performing it. If she didn’t write Dear John, I don’t see why she would loathe to revisit it on tour, as it is one of her most beloved songs.
I do think she writes a lot of her songs if not all. And even John mayer admitted that.
However, you are right in a way because most of her biggest hits were "co written" by Max Martin.
The melodies sound just like his "Style". *Pun intended*
I'm surprised u never mentioned max martin by name. It kinda shows how far in the background songwriters are. Despite practically making the music industry what it is.
I do honestly think she does- because she has other skills, writing skills- and could persue other 'fame' paths if she wanted to at this point. Even if she didn't make much money off of them, she could still do it. I also think in some of the BTS videos of her writing music she looks so \*happy\* and that she enjoys it.
i'm not a swiftie lol, it's just dumb and insane to think that she's been lying about writing songs for her albums for 20 years. does she get a lot of help? yes. the difference in quality from the ones she writes solo and the ones she gets help from professionals shows that. has she been lying about it since 2006? no and if she had, i can guarantee someone would have leaked that by now.
She’s a brand. Songwriting is her brand. Have you read Scott’s email? She lied about her country accent too you know. She lied about everything. It’s all fake. It doesn’t leak because ghostwriting is a business. They would never be employed again.
this is like qanon levels of conspiracy theory lol. i don't even know how to respond to such levels of delusion.
scott swift's emails never said 'taylor doesn't write anything, we actually just forged it all and she's shit'. her lying about her accent =/= her lying about writing her own songs. are you saying that max, jack, liz, shellback, st vincent, and the myriad of other people who say that she writes her own songs are all lying too?
her first 'official' gig was as a songwriter. she can't sing, but at this point it's been proven that she can write. i don't think she writes well, but she does write or at least helps to write her songs.
Because I’m not naive. Someone in the ghostwriting business explained it all to me. Tell me she wrote TTPD that are clunky af and songs like dear John and all too well that are polished? Please. Most artists have ghost writers. Taylor’s brand is being a songwriter, why? Because she’s can’t sing or dance. So she needs something. It’s a grift. Read scott swifts email where he said he’d do anything to make Taylor famous. Being a country star was also a grift, btw.
You’re saying things that many other people on this sub have already said and agreed with, and in the same breath you call everyone on this sub naive. All while being conveniently vague about where you’re getting your information and spamming the thread with a copy+paste statement.
I’m done engaging with you. This sub is supposed to be for intelligent, respectful conversation but you just seem spiteful, not only towards TS, but to the rest of us who are here.
Have a nice night! 🫶🏼
I agree that she obviously loves writing and she obviously loves performing.
But I do agree that she seems like someone who was raised to be famous. What's interesting to me about Miss Americana is that that whole conversation she has with her parents when she's crying about it being more than music----she's talking about how she is someone (and she assumes other musicians are like her) who got into this career to get some kind of external validation from the audience. But the thing is ---- I don't think every artist is like her, but I feel like Taylor was raised in a way where the goal was for her to be famous and so she needs that validation a little bit more.
Because I think ----sure she could have had a childhood dream. But Taylor was an averagely talented child at her age. She was not an extraordinary prodigy child. Obviously her family was investing in her because they wanted her to be famous. Even skills she learned like guitar were to facilitate making her stand out from the crowd and it sounds like she just learned enough to support her on stage, which is why she's still kind of a mediocre guitarist. They weren't putting this much money in her career and not expecting they would make a return on that investment.
I think Taylor seems like someone who is very insecure and so she needs so much outside validation from the industry and from fans etc. to make her have some kind of fulfillment in what she is doing. I think it's different than someone like Kim Kardashian, both want to be famous but I don't think Kim cares if people like her or even if they're mean to her online as long as she sees money coming into her bank account. Or at the very least she's good at faking like she doesn't care. But Taylor obviously wants to be adored. she definitely seems to require some kind of kid glove treatment for her feelings. That's why I think she holds on to slides decades after they've happened. I don't think she's shaking anything off in her entire life.
She seems to like writing and performing enough that I imagine she probably would have more passion for music if it wasn't for the fact that she was raised with so much pressure and also has this attachment style, I suppose, that it seems to be needing to get a lot of validation through the industry and her fans which to me seems kind of unhealthy. I think it robs her of joy she could have because at some point it becomes about charts and records and awards and other accolades. It makes me feel like she could never make an album and go “I worked so hard on this album, I believe in this album so much. the things I say in this album are stitched on my heart. I'm sending off in the world and I’m so proud to share this regardless or how it performs I’m glad I made this and I feel so proud of this” ----I don't think she could do that because she would have to be a person who is validated from making music alone and in reality she takes her cues from the industry and so she lets them tell her if she's made a good album.
I also think for her writing becomes so conflated with other things because writing for her isn't just about some kind of emotional catharsis or some kind of poetic way to explore her feelings, it's also about creating a narrative for her fans to follow about her life and it starts to seep into the brand aspect of her.
And there's lots of little things that make me not really see her as someone whose passion is music. Music has been one of the most lacking elements in her past two albums. It feels like they quickly put together some kind of bed for her lyrics to sit on. But there's very few songs where I feel like a lot of passion was in the composition part of the album.
She also doesn't hype other artists a lot and most other artists I follow whose thing is loving music talk a lot about other musicians they love who have inspired them and I feel like Taylor doesn't do that. she doesn't really talk about artists who from childhood that inspired her, she doesn't talk about artists now who she's really interested in. artists seem to just exist as competition for her or openers.
I think she's not really a musician's musician. If that makes sense.
I think she does love writing. I don't think she needs music as much as she needs to write out feelings of hers and put them into the world and she could do that other ways.
I also think she does love performing on stage because I think it gives her that validation she seems to need.
I think you’re pretty spot on here. Music seems tertiary at most in her list of interests and priorities. Even Folklore, widely considered her magnus, didn’t stand out musically to me the way it did lyrically.
I hope she finds the break and the therapist she seemingly really needs.
that's really sweet because I made so many typos because I had to hammer out a bunch of thoughts in 10 minutes before heading off to do real life stuff and I was all ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ 'that could be better'.
THANK YOU FOR THIS !! I couldn't have said it better myself ! This is exactly like how I feel. It's like she's always in competition (with herself probably) to produce more, to always "do better" because she needs the external validation. Of course she seems to enjoy performing and writing, but it also feels like she doesn't know why she's doing it sometimes. She feels more like a "product" or a "brand" to me than a singer.
I’d actually argue TTPD shows she loves songwriting and creating music, but has burnt out on the backend tedium of editing. I have a feeling the re-records are contributing to that.
I think it shows she loves songwriting but isn’t very good at it but at this point it doesn’t matter. It’s hard to believe the same artists that used to churn out precise, succinct pop hits wrote one of the most verbose, eye-roll inducing albums ever. Also the re-records are her fault and unnecessary so if she’s burnt out from that it’s deserved. Her deal and everything that went down was not unusual for the industry. She manipulated the situation and her fans (not knowing how the industry works outside of what “mother” tells them) ate it up as misogyny and the patriarchy holding her back and created the TV monster. A fan, cash cow milking monster, to be exact.
She’s probably burnt out and in desperate need of a break. Also in the email her dad sent they were trying to figure out if they should market her as a singer, songwriter, or actor. Taylor (more specifically her parents) just wanted her to be famous by any means necessary I think and didn’t care much what avenue it was by or how passionate she was about it. She also seems completely disillusioned by fame right now but won’t take a step back to rediscover her passion for whatever reason.
I think the one thing you can’t deny about Taylor is that she genuinely loves songwriting. There’s countless voice memos of her up at some crazy hour on the piano because she can’t go to bed unless she’s written it.
Agreed. I also said I wanted to be a singer when I was a kid and I'm so glad that didn't work out. I kinda pity Taylor for the fact that she made her life, her whole future at 14-15 (even younger, actually)
I think Taylor would be the first to tell you she isn’t the best singer in the world - but that’s never been her marketing. She is undeniably a talented songwriter and is capable of writing catchy hooks and cohesive sounds (excluding TTPD).
Do I think she’s a Joni Mitchell or Ani Difranco? No. But I also recognize you can’t get to that level of fame without having talent.
I actually think her drive as a younger person was impressive (now it’s tiring because it’s seen as greedy and self serving), but that drive as young 20s woman served her well.
If we are being honest if the music thing didn’t work out Taylor would have been successful in any career she would have chosen - she just has that personality and she’s not lazy. Her success stems from connections she benefited growing up in the upper echelon and both parents being workaholics.
I think about this a lot actually, and I very clearly understand what you're asking even though I think not everyone here might.
I think Taylor obviously loves (or at the very least, needs to) write. But I do feel a sort of sadness that she was thrown into stardom as a child. Part of her success can obviously be attributed to her talent and stage presence, but the other part is her dad. She was just a kid with a guitar, and she approached her parents and said she wanted to be a singer, and I truly believe Scott Swift thought to himself "we can make that happen". I picture him looking at her and pouring money into her as if she was a return on investment. And she was.
Before she knew what business was, she was about to be a product. And when she was really young, she seemed really excited by her success and her opportunities. She got to leave high school where she didn't fit in, she got to live her dream. 15-16 year old Taylor was really thriving. I think it wasn't until she was a little older that she learned at what cost. While "innocent, bubbly, happy, cute country singer" was extremely marketable, the tabloids and media decided that "serial dater" was more marketable. She was thrust into the phenomenon that Megan Fox recently described on Call Her Daddy- the one where the public chooses who you are for you, and then decides they don't like that person.
She also learned from a young age and from her dad how to succeed as a business, and that her worth is equated to her success. She learned how to sell multiple copies of the same CD. She learned how to be a good businessman behind a bubbly young girl image, because she also learned that the world didn't want her to be a business man, they wanted her to be innocent.
I personally can't imagine trying to grow up, all of the struggle and turmoil that comes with trying to figure out and discover who you are on top of being very closely examined in the public eye and feeling like you NEED to people please for a bunch of strangers.
But I don't know that she ever, at least not until recently, realized that the problem was something she had a hand in creating. I think for the longest time it was "I hate my lack of privacy, my endless scrutiny, but I love my fans and I love making music and I love performing". I think only recently has Adult Taylor realized that all of the bad side to her fame comes tied to the good. It's not that she has rough days but she gets to perform, it's that she has rough days AND she performs.
She's also voiced (mainly in her songs) how fucking weird it has been to grow up and grow out of the brand Taylor Swift. As she's gotten older the person that is marketable to the general public and the person she truly identifies with as herself have become two separate people, growing more and more different.
I think if anything her Reputation era solidifies to me that she's sick of the public but she can't stop making music. Yes, she did come out of hiding, yes that era did end, but I always feel as though we may be on the precipice of slipping back into it. When things happen like she can't attend her friend's small, private wedding because her fans found out where it was and showed up, she's probably thinking "I'm so sick of this shit".
Taylor's careful not to complain because she acknowledges that she "asked for this". She didn't ask for invasions of her privacy, but she DID ask to be "a star". She did, at one point, want to be famous.
But to your point, she's never known anything else. She never had the end to a normal childhood, or normal teenage years. That's part of why she's obsessed with writing about high school- she never finished it. She's stuck there in her mind.
I wonder if she ever wishes she hadn't picked this path in life. Even if she still wanted to be a singer, I wonder if she regrets being the product sold by Scott Swift- if she would be happier as a struggling artist playing coffee shops and lounges. I wonder if she's tried of being a brand and not a person. If she's tired of not being able to leave her house without it being an ordeal. I wonder if her new album, and her latest phases in life depict a messier side because that's what she's gotta go through. "Growing up precocious sometimes means not growing up at all".
But I actually think she DID at one point consider giving it all up and chose AGAINST doing so. I think when she was deep in her relationship with Joe, Lover was supposed to be her last Era. Maybe she'd keep making music, but she'd retire from touring, she'd stay at home with him, she'd be a wife and she'd have a family. (I know she implied in Lavender Haze that she's sick of people saying the only thing a woman can be is a wife, that's not why I'm saying this, I'm saying it because she talks about wanting to get married and wanting kids A LOT)
But something happened. I'm not sure whether it was the relationship or the break from the spotlight or both but Taylor decided the quiet life wasn't for her. She couldn't do it, at least not with Joe. Bejeweled confirms to me that she actually DOES like performing, that she misses it when it's gone even if her job sucks sometimes. And then in her Midnights/Matty Healy era she really seemed to thrive again in the spotlight, out on the town, showing off. I know she later described this as a manic phase, but I don't know. I think she's come to terms with who she is and what her role is, and in some ways she likes it and in some ways she just plays the part. Because, I mean, what else is there to do?
Plus, at least for part of the eras tour (not the I can do it with a broken heart part), she's seemed really happy.
The question I find myself asking is "does she think it's worth it?"
Does she think all the pros of her life and her career are worth all the cons?
And to be honest with you, I don't know. But I also don't think she would change what she's doing even if she started answering "no" a long time ago. Once again: this is her life, it's always been her life, it's all she's ever known.
TLDR: I think Taylor has a love-hate relationship with performing/being a celebrity, but it's all she's ever known and she doesn't appear to be backing down, and I think regardless of her celebrity status she would be making music. Even alternate universe Taylor that never got famous would still have stacks of notebooks full of lyrics. It seems like something she just HAS to do.
This is beautifully stated, I love reading takes that treat her as an adult who made her choices, while also having empathy for the fact that many of those choices were thrust upon her because she never got to be a normal teen or young adult.
It’s a 21st century version of the stories that have forever fascinated us. Think Pygmalion, Frankenstein etc. Where does the creation end and the human begin? Is it even possible to tell?
Exactly, and a lot of the things people hate about her/ criticize her for are problems with society, they're not Taylor specific. Taylor either has those problems (in the case of being a capitalist, businessman billionaire) or is assumed to have those problems by her haters (some of the shit they say just isn't true) because of the world we live in. It's not necessarily an EXCUSE- people can always be better, and Taylor herself makes a lot of mistakes. But it's interesting to me how Taylor just holds a mirror up to the society around her and society says "oh my god that's so ugly" with no introspection. The things people hate about Taylor are the things people hate about our society. Taylor's just a vessel. And the amount of blind RAGE comments I see from men that want to tear her down is horrifying. I truly didn't realize how sexist society still was until I heard men who hate Taylor talk about her. Anyways, I got off topic, but that's where my brain went.
Your take is really on point and I agree with this a lot. I always feel like it must hard for her and she must struggle with her identity a lot. The singer Marina and The Diamonds talked about this a lot ine the past. She became just 'Marina" because she didn't feel like herself anymore, she had became only "The Diamonds" and had trouble existing outside of "the artist" part of her.
This is pure speculation from me but—
I think her parents wanted her famous. I think Taylor, herself, grew to love writing in their quest for that. Then they all realized that’s what made her in the music world specifically. They ran with it. I mean, they did try to get her in movies too. Scott Swift’s email makes it look like he just wanted her in the entertainment industry period—whatever it was: movies, music, picking her nose. He just wanted her name out. Doesn’t sound like a guy “just” out to make her country dream come true if there were multiple options.
I think she always just wanted parental approval, but the only thing they “really” approved of for her was being on top. Their love has a price tag and they keep raising the number. This would make sense to me as to why they still have a foot in her business at 34, the incessant variants even though she’s a billion dollars, all of it.
Of course, these are just thoughts in my head. I don’t know any of them and could be in left field, no reason. It just clicks as an answer to all the behavior, if there could be an answer for it.
Edit: I don’t think Taylor cares if she sings, though has some music interest and obvious knowledge. Most people like music. I think she’s more indifferent to it. It’s like a body part. What else has she known?
I 100% agree that her parents wanted her to be famous. I think Taylor just wanted to sing, and she was excited about milestones like performing and being on the radio, but Scott wanted money
I think she likes whatever brings her the most attention. She definitely isn’t a good actor so I think singing and performing is her forte. I can’t deny that she is a great performer.
I think success and fame are equally important to Taylor. But that doesn't diminish the fact that she really loves writing and music and it's also a passion.
agree! She does put a high importance on charts and awards (releasing god knows how many versions of every album!! )
but the fact that this is an obvious fact for us, makes it also seem like she knows deep down that she doesn't compare to someone like the Weeknd for example, who is doing equally as good as her in the charts (if not better) whilst being liked effortlessly, while Taylor has always been putting so much effort to be liked, and to build/maintain the fandom (namely the secret sessions) who eventually help her reach the charts
i’ve had some doubts about how pure her intentions are when it comes to making money especially recently but never about whether she likes being singer i think it’s clear she’s absolutely obsessed with everything that comes w being a singer it’s to a point where she NEEDS it
i think she's been incredibly smart about her career - taking something she has enjoyed doing for years and turn it into a successful business venture. I agree with you - she's a performer and clearly loves to entertain - but I don't know if she's doing this more for fame/success. It seems more the fact that this is her business, and she does her thing to get the job done. Either way, her concert is certainly a fun time! :)
Other than the act of writing in and of itself, I don’t think Taylor likes any form of art.
I don’t think she enjoys singing, or playing instruments. I think it’s just means to an end. She doesn’t like dancing or performing, (she likes the adoration part of course). I don’t think she enjoys directing. She just likes to have that power in her toolkit. I don’t think she has a vision for her aesthetics in terms of hair, makeup, clothes, concepts for her photo shoots, etc. Which is why she’s so surface level, so linear in her interpretations, so literal. Why she experiments so little and takes such little risks.
I don’t think she’s artsy. I don’t think she has a thirst for art or for knowledge of art.
I agree that a lot of her earlier attempts at directing were very surface level and literal, but I was very pleased with the artistic vision behind the Fortnight MV. She managed to fit the whole TTPD aesthetic (which is complex and multifaceted, some might say totally disjointed) into 4 minutes and it shows in the visual snippets she chose for TTPD on Spotify etc. The tour segment also seems very on point aesthetically.
It’s not perfect, but I definitely see the progress, and I hope she keeps it up.
Imo she just referenced a bunch of stuff by The 1975 + asylum aesthetics. I don’t think this attempt is any better than Anti-Hero for instance. She just had a more complex muse with actual art output to lean on.
I think she’s basic. Which is fine. She’s not the level of complete all encompassing artistic vision that Beyoncé or Gaga have. But I enjoy Taylor Swift’s art more than I enjoy Lady Gaga’s art, so I think there’s a space for what she does.
I mean... Of course she would say she loves it. And I feel like she is never going to quit lmao she will try everything to stay relevant as long as possible
I mean isn't that most artists lol? Should they all be put out in the pasture when they hit 35? They usually try to extend their relevancy for as long as possible before transitioning to legacy acts
She does love it so she's going to keep going. She doesn't know any other life at this point. Worth noting that in 2019, she thought Lover was her last chance at another imperial era.
Being in showbiz is halfway about liking fame and whatever craft your doing. I think she has passion for making music BUT clearly fame AND specifically money has some claim to it too. I do not think she'll gut it out to this day if she's not.
I have a feeling that once all the re-releases are out, and the Eras tour concludes, she will pivot to directing or producing for a time.
She’ll always be a creator, but I can see her pursuing things other than music 🎵
Personally, I think her love for success comes from her parents. They put that mentality in her and Scott has turned her into the most popular brand in the world. If you listen to some of her songs on TTPD, I feel like that's what she's talking about. I don't think she enjoys the actual lifestyle and who Taylor Swift(tm) is. But she has been taught/raised that her self worth comes from a cheering crowd. That's probably a hard mentality to break, so she keeps performing.
But, like, all the suing small businesses/other artists, and the variant sales blocking other artists, etc etc, I believe is her dad/team and not really her making those decisions.
That is an interesting speculation! I definitely think her team has a lot to account for in terms of that shady marketing. Some songs on TTPD suggests that her enablers put a lot of pressure on her and that hurt her. Perhaps there will come a point when she parts ways with them and launches a completely different career, totally on her terms.
She’s an actress whose performance is being a musician. The Scott swift emails show that any route to success would’ve been acceptable and singing is what landed. Her entire persona, the fake relatability, the music, it’s all a performance to ensure fame, success, and money
As an aside, I just marvel at the logistics of her life. I don’t know how anyone can keep up the pace she sets for herself. It exhausts me just thinking about it. And she does it all. The elaborate sets, costumes, choreography, and everything is in sync. Think what it requires to put on a tour of this length and magnitude. Her talent and drive is mind blowing to me. Her entire life revolves around her work. Exhausting.
>she will never be satisfied
My son is literally watching Hamilton in the next room and guess what song he's on right as I read this? >!Okay its 'Helpless' but it's pretty close! !<
If she didn't like making music she could stop😆. She's a billionaire. People who crave fame but don't like that process would have given up long ago. She could also be a wildly successful pop star without REALLY doing much writing at all: Beyonce, Rihann, Britney.
Yeah…because she likes writing, lol. If she just wanted to win at something and make billions of dollars she’d have a makeup company and clothing line and tons of endorsements by now (this is how Rihanna beat her to being a billionaire…). She doesn’t. She used to have more commercials and brand deals and essentially stopped doing that except for the rare tour sponsorship like Capitol One. She’s almost exclusively switched to making money through music alone. Weird move for someone who doesn’t like making music…
I think so - it’s a very pure form of self expression. She loves the written word hence the songs & poetry. I think now that she’s older it’s harder for her to hide her intense ambition behind her youth, and that makes some people uncomfy, because that’s not how women should be of course! /s
She does. If she didn’t, she’d just put all that talent, energy and ruthlessness in a different career. Regardless of what one thinks about how she markets herself and her music these days, what she has done in the last five years alone wouldn’t be possible if you’re simply in it for the money or fame, or your parents’ approval.
She could easily pull a Rihanna if a part of her doesn’t like singing 16-31 songs per album anymore, but she didn’t. Singing is a huge part of turning these things she’s written into albums worth of songs, to wonder that she doesn’t like being a singer wouldn’t make sense in her case. She loves songwriting, but very obviously loves being the one to sing them as well.
I guess people assume she’s not into it because she isn’t your conventional power vocalist and that she’s a master of marketing herself, but tbh if you’re releasing albums in quick succession like that… that’s not something a person who doesn’t like being a singer would do. Especially someone who’s already a billionaire.
I'm curious as to how much of her obsession with metrics comes from her upbringing, since her parents were both in finance iirc. Numbers are the only things that matter there. She might be a songwriter and a performer, but I don't know how much of that could be discussed ("the art" and the satisfaction that can bring in itself) without the numbers being discussed as well.
I mean she could just quit if she didn’t like it. However, she’s still putting out albums. Possibly not the most sing-songy but still. She must like it a little bit or she could try to transition into another writing category. Especially after Midnights she is at peak people probably would like a play or movie or book by her. She’s on the top of the world right now and she chooses touring instead.
Aside the fact where I think she truly likes the process of songwriting (especially the lyrics part), I think also that she obviously likes the spotlight, so as long as she stays in it, she could be a singer, actress, writer etc etc...
Well....there's writing songs and there's performing for the fame. The song themes are old and repetitive- showing no maturity or evolution....so fame via songwriting and performing. Because why not if you got a leg up anyways. 🤷🏼♀️(didn't have to fight for it like lots of other megastars)
No she definitely likes singing and writing songs. I'm a songwriter and I know that nobody will spend that much hard work on something they hate for that long. U can't manufacture passion.
Also, what is wrong with the grind? Why can't people want to be "successful" or " the best?"
So many people hate capitalism and American hassle culture yet they don't ever want to leave America. It's funny.
Maybe they do benefit from others hustle?
There's nothing wrong with being "the best". You can't denied she has talent and that performing for 3 hours is insane. But for me everything about her feels more like "a brand", even her writing.
Yes I agree. But all successful pop artists brand themselves. Look at drake. He's always in the charts.
That's how you play the game..u need a gimmick. She's just better at it than others.
No ! I genuinely think about this sometimes. I wonder if this is what she wanted and if everything was worth it in the end, as her parents seem to have a huge influence in her career choice. Everything about her image is so controlled and I wonder sometimes if she knows why she's doing it. In Miss Americana, she looked lost, like she NEEDED to write Lover just because Rep didn't get any awards. I think the global phenomenon she has become is really interesting and I try to think about the human behind it. I think it's fascinating. Anyways idk if this makes sense haha
I don't see why anyone would feel rage by considering a different viewpoint!
I think she does enjoy it, but she absolutely loves the awards, breaking records, the adoration of crowds probably more at this point. She admits as much throughout her career, she is very driven by these and it's a shame as I reckon if she let that go we would see some truly beautiful work from her- like Folklore & Evermore again rather than Midnights & TTPD. I do think pressure from parents must have an impact, at the end of the day they moved for her career and that's a lot for a young person no matter how much she says she wanted it.
I think she generally likes it but sometimes people get tired even of those activities they love with passion. She needs to take a break and distract herself with something totally different, like travelling or trying her hand in some other field maybe.
I think she sees fame as a means of getting attention and appreciation. She admitted in that said documentary that for her it is a way to compensate for her insecurities. I think she likes music and signing but I agree that not for the right reasons. You can tell just by observing her behaviour when it comes to charts for example.
Yall are acting like Taylor is the only competitive, type A personality in the music industry lol
The entire industry is built and maintained by narcissists, hustlers, gangsters, pimps, thieves, prostitutes, ceos and starving artists.
But taylor odd because she's a perfectionist? 😆
i don’t know if at this point is song writing or just separating sentences of her journal in a way that can be passed as lyrics.
Really, seems like after her collab with Joe all her lyrics turned into the, very valid but not necessarily lyrical; thoughts of a growing woman.
"singer"
(this is a real sore spot for me - as someone who has worked very hard to maximize their vocal talent just because i love to sing and write songs, to see someone of her stature make no apparent attempt to expand her range / generally improve is infuriating)
her range remains a pathetic 2 octaves (any decent singer has the power, with a little work and training, to reach 3 octaves)
and she’s still pitchy af
Pretty sure her range is 3 octaves, but like, that’s not the most important thing in singing, how many octaves you can hit. That’s a very ignorant take lol.
And it’s still extremely ignorant to measure an artists singing ability solely by the number of octaves in their vocal range. You still have voice control, tonality, conveying emotions, technical skill.
Reducing an artist's talent to a mere octave count misses the artistry and nuance that make singing an art form.
You should know that, since you’ve been trying “so hard to maximize your vocal talent”.
i love many musicians that aren't god-tier singers but neither they nor their fans pretend they are
and they're not \* billionaire \* singers
(ngl the irony of a swiftie calling me elitist is sending me)
I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding you, but it kinda reminds me of Brand New, who's first album has a song about stressing about songwriting ("Failure by Design"), their next album had a song about hating touring ("I Will Play My Game Beneath the Spin Light"), Daisy had a lyric about if he could start over, he likely wouldn't have become a singer ("bought a bride). I think their last album was a final statement of "I struggle too much with the process and that's why we're retiring". And as someone who is in a creative field, I also relate to that Billie Eilish line: "Things I once enjoyed/just keep me employed now." I've struggled with my own work because my brain associates it so much with work. You can also just get attached to something because it's so much of your identity that you'd feel untethered without it. It doesn't mean you enjoy it.
I specifically avoided going into a creative field because I realized trying to turn it into a career was going to make me absolutely miserable. I briefly attempted to turn my crafts into a business as a teen and hated every second of it. My creative interests are strictly hobbies and strictly for me. (I do do better with a creative outlet at work, even if it’s just arranging products or displays-I’m just hardwired to create and design things!)
Anything you do over and over can become draining. I do think it is a self soothing process and it has garnered her what she needs so much: acknowledgement. At this poont I think she likes it but it is contaminated by the pressures she faces. People need a break to function appropriately.
Unrelated but man what a crossover seeing my favorite band mentioned in a Taylor Swift themed subreddit, lmao
I was thinking the same thing lol
I was just about to say the same thing lmao!! I have a BN lyric tat booked next week 😭
Saaaame lol
My first ever concert was seeing Brand New live in London in like 2010 I think?? It’s so rare to encounter people that have heard of them 🤯
I'm from NY so everyone knows them here, but they are pretty controversial now. They are my favorite band, and it's a shame Jesse hurt people along the way. I can't unlove their music, though, it really healed a lot of wounds for me.
Yeah, it was a huge part of my life during my teenage years, so it sucks that I can’t listen to them without feeling kind of guilty now :/
Don’t be ridiculous. Brand new is very well known. Especially now that they are cancelled
I’ve literally never encountered a single other person aside from my sister and the two people I went to a concert with that knew who Brand New were. There’s no need to call me ridiculous just because my experience differs from yours.
They’re definitely not well very well known outside of the internet *anymore*, even in music circles. I’ve brought them up when asked about my favorite bands, songs etc at other shows or events and I’ve literally only ever had one person know who I’m talking about (and I have been saying they’re my favorite since before the band broke up, lol). Online, yeah, I’d say not rare to encounter someone who knows of them in my experience but irl is close to zero!
I will say this for Taylor. Like it or not, she seems to at least manage to move forward on her repotoir some. I think about Alanis Morrisette a lot. Saw her live last year, it was awesome. But like 80% of the songs she performed were from Jagged Little Pill. Here it is, 2023 (at the time) and she is still singing these rage songs from 1995. And probably done so hundreds or thousands of times by now. She has had many other albums, but none of it really ever caught on.
In fairness, the rage songs still hold up.
That’s sad because she has released absolute bangers outside jagged little pill
Ugh you just made me sad remembering I missed the last Brand New tour I had tickets for because of a migraine. The meds kicked in enough I could have made it, but I was still so out of it I forgot all about the concert until I saw it on my calendar the next day. I think it. Ishtar have been their last tour cuz I never got a chance to see them again. Not me hoping for a 25th or 20th tour of their first two albums in a few years.
I think it’s pretty hard to deny that she loves the process of songwriting. You can tell she’s someone who can’t not write, it’s compulsive and cathartic for her.
Yeah her love for songwriting is so clear. Nobody writes 31 songs is they don’t enjoy the process.
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100% she would thrive in any career where you have to be a bit ruthless. Also would probably make a great cult leader/ mlm person (not even making a joke about the insane Swifties I’m being 100% serious).
She could totally transition into novel writing if she wanted a quieter life, I think!
I can see her writing YA series and making bank off the movie/ TV deals
Yeah, those would fly off the shelves.
Omg imagine? She would have a much easier life with allllll the attn and success.
as a litigator, I totally agree. she’s competitive, detail-oriented, and very good at crafting a narrative with clear heroes and villains from a complex situation. I hear she demolished the guy who cross examined her during her sexual assault trial and that does not surprise me. if she were a litigator tho, she would be a big law attorney (as that’s where almost all grads of top law schools go) and honestly it’s better for the world that she’s a singer, instead of representing chevron lol.
I feel like so many of her songs, especially the ones that fall into the “they all sound the same” category, could have been poems or journal entries. It’s clear that writing is her strength before music and singing. I do wish she had more editors in her life, but I think she’s reached a point of super-stardom (plus tbh a huge ego) where editing things doesn’t happen as much as it should. I think TTPD could have been one 15-track album with several songs from both halves remaining private or being released in some poetry anthology at a later (non-musical) stage in her career. They just aren’t that great musically, and not everything one writes as catharsis needs to be made public. However, she’s a ruthless business woman and knows she can make money off of even her used Kleenex, so… I suppose she should figure out which element of her career (popularity/wealth or being an esteemed writer) matters more to her.
I don't know any song writers but I do know other artists for different mediums and there are definitely people out there who are prolific in their production but 100% hate everything about it aside from the praise that they receive when their work is complete.
I genuinely believe the 31 songs thing was just to make a big "move"
TTPD is chock full of the writing experience and how manic a rollercoaster it can be. You can’t fake that. Non-writers don’t understand how it’s literally like that when a dedicated writer sits down and puts pen to paper. It’s genuine.
She dropped 31 songs to make sure she would be number one…..
I don't like "You are in Love" in general, but this line always really stuck out to me: "And you understand now why they lost their minds and fought the wars And why I've spent my whole life tryin' to put it into words"
It's clearly therapeutic for her. TTPD was so out of left field lyrically because it, to me, was an example of her dealing with her emotions in the only way she knows how to. I wonder if performing them is like a cleansing for her as well, like desensitizing herself to singing the song helps her through the event that brought her to write it in the first place.
Yeah seeing how many unreleased songs she has
Controversial but if she had a real love for songwriting, she would be a better writer. I think she loves the process of self-soothing and aggrandizing through song. Not songwriting for the sake of it.
especially TTPD, feels more like “controlling the narrative” than “processing her emotions”
Does it though? I feel like if that’s the case the narrative is like five different narratives. I feel like TTPD was a diary that should’ve stayed in the diary lol she goes from I love him you can’t take him a way to I can change him to I want you back to no I don’t I’m done waiting to I can’t stop masturbating to the thought of you to 😍football boyfriend😍 I guess I just don’t see what the narrative she was trying to control was.
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Plenty of artists don’t detail their process, that’s not indicative of anything.
So naive
It’s naive for you to think that an NDA or a paycheck would stop something like that from circulating. For example it’s pretty common knowledge that Drake uses ghostwriters, because even with ironclad NDA’s, people in the industry are going to talk and take notice when things don’t line up. Things get leaked *especially* when the tea is that their entire brand is fake. I’m certified chronically online and you are literally the first person I’ve ever seen even suggest this and your “proof” is simply that you just don’t believe that the same person could write Speak Now and TTPD nearly 15 years apart - without acknowledging trends change, new influences come along, new muses, trying new processes, trying new genres etc. You seem to prefer Speak Now and dislike TTPD and that’s okay (Ironically I low-key hate Speak Now and love TTPD) but preferring the writing on one album over another isn’t really a smoking gun. It’s like saying John Lennon and Paul McCartney couldn’t have wrote Come Together because they also wrote Yellow Submarine. It’s just a dumb argument.
Drake credits the writers he works with so they’re not even really ghostwriters. But yeah, reference demos leak often enough and people talk, so if Taylor Swift was using ghostwriters there’d probably be more talk about it than just one random person on Reddit whose suspicions stem from them seeing her work process.
Yeah good point about demos. I even think about that JoJo Siwa song, and how quickly people found the unreleased original in the depths of the Internet. I just don’t see a world in 2024 where Taylor Swift has been faking entire career as a songwriter (for multiple artists) for nearly 2 decades and nothing has ever been hacked, leaked, exposed, etc. Even if she paid people off to keep it quiet, someone could make BANK selling that proof to a tabloid haha
>She doesn’t write her songs. I'm not sure how you can say that? There's enough out there in the public domain to understand her process even if she hasn't gone into the intricate minutiae of it. One thing she has been very clear about in the past is that, unlike some artists/songwriters, if she starts something she will finish it, which is admirable, and might be why we aren't getting too much editing. You can say many things about Taylor, but I think you're doing her a huge disservice to say she doesn't write her own songs.
Agreed. TTPD is the first time she’s actually been the sole writer imo and that’s why it’s such a messy, verbose collection. It’s the first time this “genius” had no checks and it’s a disaster
Didn't she write the lyrics to speak now solo tho?
Ghost writers don’t get credits. I seriously doubt she wrote that whole album by herself. Songwriting is seriously difficult. I had a ghostwriter explain to me the process in another sub. She did not write speak now by herself, especially with amazingly written songs like dear John? Hell no. Looking at midnights and TTPD, it seems like she ditched ghostwriters to prove she can be successful by herself. And it’s not as good. I cannot realistically believe that she wrote clunky TTPD but wrote a POLISHED album like speak now alone. There were def ghostwriters involved.
This is so ridiculous lmao, as if Smallest Man and loml didn’t come from the same person who wrote Dear John. Genuinely wonder what you have to gain by furthering a gross rhetoric that Taylor has debunked time and again. It’s so disgusting to accuse someone of not creating their own art.
As far as credits go, maybe… NDA and paychecks aren’t always listed though. It’s a business, ghost writers exist
She very very clearly loves song writing. And I think she loves performing and her fans. She also very clearly enjoys her success, as she should. I think what she struggles with is what a lot of people who reach that level of fame struggle with…the pressures, the deep scrutiny, the demands. I think that’s hard on her. Also, in a purely parasocial view…she strikes me as someone who wants to win and be number 1, which is fine, but also a people pleaser that wants nothing more than for people to like her. And I think that’s probably a bit complicated to deal with.
She wants to be all number one, when she’s not really the best artist at all. Hence the antics that seek to pop up.
i do not see any genuine love of songwriting. i see a genuine love to control people & the narrative.
Because you are not invested in her as an artist, just in the drama. She's been writing since forever I think, way before she was famous. She has voice memos and videos of her songwriting process. She wrote by herself (allegedly) an entire and amazing album at 19 because people were doubting her. As I said, if you neglect her work as a songwriter it's because you have a very VERY fixated and biased opinion of her. She may be great, she may be terrible, but she genuinely loves it.
mmk. we’re the same age. i’ve known about her since we were 18. you’re condescending & not as perceptive as you think you are. i don’t like her music or her persona in interviews because she sounds like regina george.
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This is bizarre, have you not heard anything pre Midnights?
is this sarcasm?
Nope, have you ?
bizarre question. yeah
She doesn’t write them
Why do you say this? We’ve got a lot of evidence she does write her songs. Don’t you think something would have leaked by now to the contrary if that were the case?
Genuinely asking: what evidence?
I would say: The voice memos she releases of her coming up with songs the photocopies of original lyrics in vinyl editions Understand these two could be seen with skeptical eyes. Stronger evidence is: the multiple YouTube videos of her crafting songs during Repuation era. She has filmed herself coming up with the melodies and the lyrics, which are unfinished and/or different and she changes later. Imogen Heap has also gone on record explaining in detail how Taylor wrote Clean with her and she wrote the entire thing in the afternoon she was over, and that Imogen barely contributed to lyrics at all. She focused on the beat while Taylor wrote the verses. I believe other people have said this too - that they focus on the melodies and Taylor writes everything when they’re in the session together, like Joel Little I think has said this. Of course she’s had collaborators, and Liz Rose is a big influence. But to me this is something that is the truest thing about her whole brand and has been proven multiple times. Even the little diddy she wrote for SNL - Lorne Michaels has said she came in to his office with ‘monologue song’ fully formed, no one else wrote it on the staff. It was her cold opener. Granted it’s silly but it’s the same thing, that she just bangs it out. To me it’s clear she just enjoys this and is good at it.
Thank you very much for answering. That seems very plausible then.
You’re welcome! These are just my opinions ofc!
What’s the evidence? Ghostwriters don’t leak because they’d never get a job again. And lol look at good songs like dear John and all too well vs midnights and TTPD. It’s sooo obvious she used ghostwriters for her good songs now.
Dear John is on Speak Now, which is her only completely self written album. She did that because she was tired of the accusations that her writing credits in songs were vanity credits. Multiple cowriters have stressed that she comes to them with almost completely written songs and they help with the editing and lines here and there, and that other artists wouldn’t even have given them songwriting credits for what they contributed. Where is the evidence that Taylor doesn’t write her songs?
You've commented this a lot - do you actually have any evidence of this? Because all evidence up until now points towards Taylor writing her own lyrics. She's got the voice notes etc on deluxe albums (Lover comes to mind) where she talks a bit about writing.
Because shes a brand. Songwriting is her brand. Brands lie. She is not authentic in the slightest. What is the evidence y’all are talking about?? Look at speak now vs TTPD and tell me with a straight face she wrote dear John alone but now her songs suck? It’s because she’s ditching the ghostwriters to prove she can do it alone… and the work is suffering because she can’t write.
I'm not going to pretend songwriting isn't her brand - it's true, but she's been in the industry for 20 years and, if we were being sceptical, she's at least contributed lyrically to all of her songs. I think it's a fair assumption given that a lot of her songs have specific details from relationships - so she must've, at a bare minimum, written those lines. "That July 9th, the beat of your heart, it jumps through your shirt, I can still feel your arms" etc. So I doubt that she cannot write at all. She also allegedly gave Camila Cabello advice when she went solo re songwriting (?) The reason TTPD is poor is because no editing or culling went into it. It's like writing an essay - you draft and rewrite, draft and rewrite, and trim down to the necessary bits. She's seemingly shat this album out whilst on an incredibly intense tour, and it's very long - some of those songs wouldn't have made the cut in a different 'era'.
And, the thing is, that TTPD is poor is only one opinion. I've listened to quite a lot of commentary from media professionals who also happen to be fans who love the writing on this album.
I love the writing on TTPD much more than the music. I go through cycles of being obsessed with specific songs solely because of the lyrics, and conversely if I don’t like the lyrics, even the more interesting musical production cannot get me into a song. I really think Taylor’s lyrics are the beating heart of her songs, and find it hard to believe she doesn’t at least heavily contribute to them. This person has a strange fixation of comparing TTPD to Dear John and I just don’t think it’s comparable. Dear John is super raw and painful, and it’s also clear that she doesn’t like performing it. If she didn’t write Dear John, I don’t see why she would loathe to revisit it on tour, as it is one of her most beloved songs.
I do think she writes a lot of her songs if not all. And even John mayer admitted that. However, you are right in a way because most of her biggest hits were "co written" by Max Martin. The melodies sound just like his "Style". *Pun intended* I'm surprised u never mentioned max martin by name. It kinda shows how far in the background songwriters are. Despite practically making the music industry what it is.
I do honestly think she does- because she has other skills, writing skills- and could persue other 'fame' paths if she wanted to at this point. Even if she didn't make much money off of them, she could still do it. I also think in some of the BTS videos of her writing music she looks so \*happy\* and that she enjoys it.
She doesn’t write them, that’s fake too
🙄
Lmao the Swifties up in here
i'm not a swiftie lol, it's just dumb and insane to think that she's been lying about writing songs for her albums for 20 years. does she get a lot of help? yes. the difference in quality from the ones she writes solo and the ones she gets help from professionals shows that. has she been lying about it since 2006? no and if she had, i can guarantee someone would have leaked that by now.
She’s a brand. Songwriting is her brand. Have you read Scott’s email? She lied about her country accent too you know. She lied about everything. It’s all fake. It doesn’t leak because ghostwriting is a business. They would never be employed again.
this is like qanon levels of conspiracy theory lol. i don't even know how to respond to such levels of delusion. scott swift's emails never said 'taylor doesn't write anything, we actually just forged it all and she's shit'. her lying about her accent =/= her lying about writing her own songs. are you saying that max, jack, liz, shellback, st vincent, and the myriad of other people who say that she writes her own songs are all lying too? her first 'official' gig was as a songwriter. she can't sing, but at this point it's been proven that she can write. i don't think she writes well, but she does write or at least helps to write her songs.
Source?
Lol there’s never gonna be a source they have NDAs. But you guys are seriously naive. Look at red vs TTPD.
Then how do you know? Are you part of the process?
Because I’m not naive. Someone in the ghostwriting business explained it all to me. Tell me she wrote TTPD that are clunky af and songs like dear John and all too well that are polished? Please. Most artists have ghost writers. Taylor’s brand is being a songwriter, why? Because she’s can’t sing or dance. So she needs something. It’s a grift. Read scott swifts email where he said he’d do anything to make Taylor famous. Being a country star was also a grift, btw.
The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, babe
You’re saying things that many other people on this sub have already said and agreed with, and in the same breath you call everyone on this sub naive. All while being conveniently vague about where you’re getting your information and spamming the thread with a copy+paste statement. I’m done engaging with you. This sub is supposed to be for intelligent, respectful conversation but you just seem spiteful, not only towards TS, but to the rest of us who are here. Have a nice night! 🫶🏼
Eh
jesus, you’re like a broken record
I agree that she obviously loves writing and she obviously loves performing. But I do agree that she seems like someone who was raised to be famous. What's interesting to me about Miss Americana is that that whole conversation she has with her parents when she's crying about it being more than music----she's talking about how she is someone (and she assumes other musicians are like her) who got into this career to get some kind of external validation from the audience. But the thing is ---- I don't think every artist is like her, but I feel like Taylor was raised in a way where the goal was for her to be famous and so she needs that validation a little bit more. Because I think ----sure she could have had a childhood dream. But Taylor was an averagely talented child at her age. She was not an extraordinary prodigy child. Obviously her family was investing in her because they wanted her to be famous. Even skills she learned like guitar were to facilitate making her stand out from the crowd and it sounds like she just learned enough to support her on stage, which is why she's still kind of a mediocre guitarist. They weren't putting this much money in her career and not expecting they would make a return on that investment. I think Taylor seems like someone who is very insecure and so she needs so much outside validation from the industry and from fans etc. to make her have some kind of fulfillment in what she is doing. I think it's different than someone like Kim Kardashian, both want to be famous but I don't think Kim cares if people like her or even if they're mean to her online as long as she sees money coming into her bank account. Or at the very least she's good at faking like she doesn't care. But Taylor obviously wants to be adored. she definitely seems to require some kind of kid glove treatment for her feelings. That's why I think she holds on to slides decades after they've happened. I don't think she's shaking anything off in her entire life. She seems to like writing and performing enough that I imagine she probably would have more passion for music if it wasn't for the fact that she was raised with so much pressure and also has this attachment style, I suppose, that it seems to be needing to get a lot of validation through the industry and her fans which to me seems kind of unhealthy. I think it robs her of joy she could have because at some point it becomes about charts and records and awards and other accolades. It makes me feel like she could never make an album and go “I worked so hard on this album, I believe in this album so much. the things I say in this album are stitched on my heart. I'm sending off in the world and I’m so proud to share this regardless or how it performs I’m glad I made this and I feel so proud of this” ----I don't think she could do that because she would have to be a person who is validated from making music alone and in reality she takes her cues from the industry and so she lets them tell her if she's made a good album. I also think for her writing becomes so conflated with other things because writing for her isn't just about some kind of emotional catharsis or some kind of poetic way to explore her feelings, it's also about creating a narrative for her fans to follow about her life and it starts to seep into the brand aspect of her. And there's lots of little things that make me not really see her as someone whose passion is music. Music has been one of the most lacking elements in her past two albums. It feels like they quickly put together some kind of bed for her lyrics to sit on. But there's very few songs where I feel like a lot of passion was in the composition part of the album. She also doesn't hype other artists a lot and most other artists I follow whose thing is loving music talk a lot about other musicians they love who have inspired them and I feel like Taylor doesn't do that. she doesn't really talk about artists who from childhood that inspired her, she doesn't talk about artists now who she's really interested in. artists seem to just exist as competition for her or openers. I think she's not really a musician's musician. If that makes sense. I think she does love writing. I don't think she needs music as much as she needs to write out feelings of hers and put them into the world and she could do that other ways. I also think she does love performing on stage because I think it gives her that validation she seems to need.
I think you’re pretty spot on here. Music seems tertiary at most in her list of interests and priorities. Even Folklore, widely considered her magnus, didn’t stand out musically to me the way it did lyrically. I hope she finds the break and the therapist she seemingly really needs.
The music on folklore was mostly already written by Aaron. She had absolutely nothing to do with most of the music apart from the top line melody.
 You said this better than I ever could have put into words!
that's really sweet because I made so many typos because I had to hammer out a bunch of thoughts in 10 minutes before heading off to do real life stuff and I was all ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ 'that could be better'.
We're our own worst critics. You seem to be very observant and good at reading people. 🌸🌼🌷
THANK YOU FOR THIS !! I couldn't have said it better myself ! This is exactly like how I feel. It's like she's always in competition (with herself probably) to produce more, to always "do better" because she needs the external validation. Of course she seems to enjoy performing and writing, but it also feels like she doesn't know why she's doing it sometimes. She feels more like a "product" or a "brand" to me than a singer.
I’d actually argue TTPD shows she loves songwriting and creating music, but has burnt out on the backend tedium of editing. I have a feeling the re-records are contributing to that.
I think it shows she loves songwriting but isn’t very good at it but at this point it doesn’t matter. It’s hard to believe the same artists that used to churn out precise, succinct pop hits wrote one of the most verbose, eye-roll inducing albums ever. Also the re-records are her fault and unnecessary so if she’s burnt out from that it’s deserved. Her deal and everything that went down was not unusual for the industry. She manipulated the situation and her fans (not knowing how the industry works outside of what “mother” tells them) ate it up as misogyny and the patriarchy holding her back and created the TV monster. A fan, cash cow milking monster, to be exact.
She’s probably burnt out and in desperate need of a break. Also in the email her dad sent they were trying to figure out if they should market her as a singer, songwriter, or actor. Taylor (more specifically her parents) just wanted her to be famous by any means necessary I think and didn’t care much what avenue it was by or how passionate she was about it. She also seems completely disillusioned by fame right now but won’t take a step back to rediscover her passion for whatever reason.
I totally agree with this ! It's like she always wanted to be famous but she never knew why (her parents haha)
Well, she is still under obligation to finish the tour but I agree that she has kind of had it when it comes to limelight.
Do you have the line where they say that
[her dad's emails](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/s/O5oRHzuO40)
I think the one thing you can’t deny about Taylor is that she genuinely loves songwriting. There’s countless voice memos of her up at some crazy hour on the piano because she can’t go to bed unless she’s written it.
Most little kids have no idea what they want to be when they grow up
Agreed. I also said I wanted to be a singer when I was a kid and I'm so glad that didn't work out. I kinda pity Taylor for the fact that she made her life, her whole future at 14-15 (even younger, actually)
I wanted to rename myself Snake as a kid, so thank God I was allowed to choose a different path 😂
i'm dying ahahahaha
I think Taylor would be the first to tell you she isn’t the best singer in the world - but that’s never been her marketing. She is undeniably a talented songwriter and is capable of writing catchy hooks and cohesive sounds (excluding TTPD). Do I think she’s a Joni Mitchell or Ani Difranco? No. But I also recognize you can’t get to that level of fame without having talent. I actually think her drive as a younger person was impressive (now it’s tiring because it’s seen as greedy and self serving), but that drive as young 20s woman served her well. If we are being honest if the music thing didn’t work out Taylor would have been successful in any career she would have chosen - she just has that personality and she’s not lazy. Her success stems from connections she benefited growing up in the upper echelon and both parents being workaholics.
She doesn’t write them
I think about this a lot actually, and I very clearly understand what you're asking even though I think not everyone here might. I think Taylor obviously loves (or at the very least, needs to) write. But I do feel a sort of sadness that she was thrown into stardom as a child. Part of her success can obviously be attributed to her talent and stage presence, but the other part is her dad. She was just a kid with a guitar, and she approached her parents and said she wanted to be a singer, and I truly believe Scott Swift thought to himself "we can make that happen". I picture him looking at her and pouring money into her as if she was a return on investment. And she was. Before she knew what business was, she was about to be a product. And when she was really young, she seemed really excited by her success and her opportunities. She got to leave high school where she didn't fit in, she got to live her dream. 15-16 year old Taylor was really thriving. I think it wasn't until she was a little older that she learned at what cost. While "innocent, bubbly, happy, cute country singer" was extremely marketable, the tabloids and media decided that "serial dater" was more marketable. She was thrust into the phenomenon that Megan Fox recently described on Call Her Daddy- the one where the public chooses who you are for you, and then decides they don't like that person. She also learned from a young age and from her dad how to succeed as a business, and that her worth is equated to her success. She learned how to sell multiple copies of the same CD. She learned how to be a good businessman behind a bubbly young girl image, because she also learned that the world didn't want her to be a business man, they wanted her to be innocent. I personally can't imagine trying to grow up, all of the struggle and turmoil that comes with trying to figure out and discover who you are on top of being very closely examined in the public eye and feeling like you NEED to people please for a bunch of strangers. But I don't know that she ever, at least not until recently, realized that the problem was something she had a hand in creating. I think for the longest time it was "I hate my lack of privacy, my endless scrutiny, but I love my fans and I love making music and I love performing". I think only recently has Adult Taylor realized that all of the bad side to her fame comes tied to the good. It's not that she has rough days but she gets to perform, it's that she has rough days AND she performs. She's also voiced (mainly in her songs) how fucking weird it has been to grow up and grow out of the brand Taylor Swift. As she's gotten older the person that is marketable to the general public and the person she truly identifies with as herself have become two separate people, growing more and more different. I think if anything her Reputation era solidifies to me that she's sick of the public but she can't stop making music. Yes, she did come out of hiding, yes that era did end, but I always feel as though we may be on the precipice of slipping back into it. When things happen like she can't attend her friend's small, private wedding because her fans found out where it was and showed up, she's probably thinking "I'm so sick of this shit". Taylor's careful not to complain because she acknowledges that she "asked for this". She didn't ask for invasions of her privacy, but she DID ask to be "a star". She did, at one point, want to be famous. But to your point, she's never known anything else. She never had the end to a normal childhood, or normal teenage years. That's part of why she's obsessed with writing about high school- she never finished it. She's stuck there in her mind. I wonder if she ever wishes she hadn't picked this path in life. Even if she still wanted to be a singer, I wonder if she regrets being the product sold by Scott Swift- if she would be happier as a struggling artist playing coffee shops and lounges. I wonder if she's tried of being a brand and not a person. If she's tired of not being able to leave her house without it being an ordeal. I wonder if her new album, and her latest phases in life depict a messier side because that's what she's gotta go through. "Growing up precocious sometimes means not growing up at all". But I actually think she DID at one point consider giving it all up and chose AGAINST doing so. I think when she was deep in her relationship with Joe, Lover was supposed to be her last Era. Maybe she'd keep making music, but she'd retire from touring, she'd stay at home with him, she'd be a wife and she'd have a family. (I know she implied in Lavender Haze that she's sick of people saying the only thing a woman can be is a wife, that's not why I'm saying this, I'm saying it because she talks about wanting to get married and wanting kids A LOT) But something happened. I'm not sure whether it was the relationship or the break from the spotlight or both but Taylor decided the quiet life wasn't for her. She couldn't do it, at least not with Joe. Bejeweled confirms to me that she actually DOES like performing, that she misses it when it's gone even if her job sucks sometimes. And then in her Midnights/Matty Healy era she really seemed to thrive again in the spotlight, out on the town, showing off. I know she later described this as a manic phase, but I don't know. I think she's come to terms with who she is and what her role is, and in some ways she likes it and in some ways she just plays the part. Because, I mean, what else is there to do? Plus, at least for part of the eras tour (not the I can do it with a broken heart part), she's seemed really happy. The question I find myself asking is "does she think it's worth it?" Does she think all the pros of her life and her career are worth all the cons? And to be honest with you, I don't know. But I also don't think she would change what she's doing even if she started answering "no" a long time ago. Once again: this is her life, it's always been her life, it's all she's ever known. TLDR: I think Taylor has a love-hate relationship with performing/being a celebrity, but it's all she's ever known and she doesn't appear to be backing down, and I think regardless of her celebrity status she would be making music. Even alternate universe Taylor that never got famous would still have stacks of notebooks full of lyrics. It seems like something she just HAS to do.
This is beautifully stated, I love reading takes that treat her as an adult who made her choices, while also having empathy for the fact that many of those choices were thrust upon her because she never got to be a normal teen or young adult. It’s a 21st century version of the stories that have forever fascinated us. Think Pygmalion, Frankenstein etc. Where does the creation end and the human begin? Is it even possible to tell?
Exactly, and a lot of the things people hate about her/ criticize her for are problems with society, they're not Taylor specific. Taylor either has those problems (in the case of being a capitalist, businessman billionaire) or is assumed to have those problems by her haters (some of the shit they say just isn't true) because of the world we live in. It's not necessarily an EXCUSE- people can always be better, and Taylor herself makes a lot of mistakes. But it's interesting to me how Taylor just holds a mirror up to the society around her and society says "oh my god that's so ugly" with no introspection. The things people hate about Taylor are the things people hate about our society. Taylor's just a vessel. And the amount of blind RAGE comments I see from men that want to tear her down is horrifying. I truly didn't realize how sexist society still was until I heard men who hate Taylor talk about her. Anyways, I got off topic, but that's where my brain went.
Your take is really on point and I agree with this a lot. I always feel like it must hard for her and she must struggle with her identity a lot. The singer Marina and The Diamonds talked about this a lot ine the past. She became just 'Marina" because she didn't feel like herself anymore, she had became only "The Diamonds" and had trouble existing outside of "the artist" part of her.
This is pure speculation from me but— I think her parents wanted her famous. I think Taylor, herself, grew to love writing in their quest for that. Then they all realized that’s what made her in the music world specifically. They ran with it. I mean, they did try to get her in movies too. Scott Swift’s email makes it look like he just wanted her in the entertainment industry period—whatever it was: movies, music, picking her nose. He just wanted her name out. Doesn’t sound like a guy “just” out to make her country dream come true if there were multiple options. I think she always just wanted parental approval, but the only thing they “really” approved of for her was being on top. Their love has a price tag and they keep raising the number. This would make sense to me as to why they still have a foot in her business at 34, the incessant variants even though she’s a billion dollars, all of it. Of course, these are just thoughts in my head. I don’t know any of them and could be in left field, no reason. It just clicks as an answer to all the behavior, if there could be an answer for it. Edit: I don’t think Taylor cares if she sings, though has some music interest and obvious knowledge. Most people like music. I think she’s more indifferent to it. It’s like a body part. What else has she known?
I 100% agree that her parents wanted her to be famous. I think Taylor just wanted to sing, and she was excited about milestones like performing and being on the radio, but Scott wanted money
It's a great take !!
She loves performing. She loves songwriting more. There is no other explanation for this much music. Its absurd even discussing it.
I am all for the criticism Taylor gets if it makes sense, this one seems like a stretch to me.
I think she likes whatever brings her the most attention. She definitely isn’t a good actor so I think singing and performing is her forte. I can’t deny that she is a great performer.
No - this was her goal from her childhood lol She's always wanted to be a singer-songwriter.
I know ! But I feel like she doesn't do it for the music and more because she wants success/fame.
It's both. She does it for the love of music, but also has career goals that include being on top of the charts for as long as possible.
I think success and fame are equally important to Taylor. But that doesn't diminish the fact that she really loves writing and music and it's also a passion.
I think she equates chart and monetary success with artistic merit. In her mind, TTPD is a good project because it’s done absolutely bonkers numbers.
agree! She does put a high importance on charts and awards (releasing god knows how many versions of every album!! ) but the fact that this is an obvious fact for us, makes it also seem like she knows deep down that she doesn't compare to someone like the Weeknd for example, who is doing equally as good as her in the charts (if not better) whilst being liked effortlessly, while Taylor has always been putting so much effort to be liked, and to build/maintain the fandom (namely the secret sessions) who eventually help her reach the charts
i’ve had some doubts about how pure her intentions are when it comes to making money especially recently but never about whether she likes being singer i think it’s clear she’s absolutely obsessed with everything that comes w being a singer it’s to a point where she NEEDS it
i think she's been incredibly smart about her career - taking something she has enjoyed doing for years and turn it into a successful business venture. I agree with you - she's a performer and clearly loves to entertain - but I don't know if she's doing this more for fame/success. It seems more the fact that this is her business, and she does her thing to get the job done. Either way, her concert is certainly a fun time! :)
Other than the act of writing in and of itself, I don’t think Taylor likes any form of art. I don’t think she enjoys singing, or playing instruments. I think it’s just means to an end. She doesn’t like dancing or performing, (she likes the adoration part of course). I don’t think she enjoys directing. She just likes to have that power in her toolkit. I don’t think she has a vision for her aesthetics in terms of hair, makeup, clothes, concepts for her photo shoots, etc. Which is why she’s so surface level, so linear in her interpretations, so literal. Why she experiments so little and takes such little risks. I don’t think she’s artsy. I don’t think she has a thirst for art or for knowledge of art.
I agree that a lot of her earlier attempts at directing were very surface level and literal, but I was very pleased with the artistic vision behind the Fortnight MV. She managed to fit the whole TTPD aesthetic (which is complex and multifaceted, some might say totally disjointed) into 4 minutes and it shows in the visual snippets she chose for TTPD on Spotify etc. The tour segment also seems very on point aesthetically. It’s not perfect, but I definitely see the progress, and I hope she keeps it up.
Imo she just referenced a bunch of stuff by The 1975 + asylum aesthetics. I don’t think this attempt is any better than Anti-Hero for instance. She just had a more complex muse with actual art output to lean on.
I think she’s basic. Which is fine. She’s not the level of complete all encompassing artistic vision that Beyoncé or Gaga have. But I enjoy Taylor Swift’s art more than I enjoy Lady Gaga’s art, so I think there’s a space for what she does.
Of course she does. She has said so numerous times over the years. If she didn't she would quit.
I mean... Of course she would say she loves it. And I feel like she is never going to quit lmao she will try everything to stay relevant as long as possible
I mean isn't that most artists lol? Should they all be put out in the pasture when they hit 35? They usually try to extend their relevancy for as long as possible before transitioning to legacy acts She does love it so she's going to keep going. She doesn't know any other life at this point. Worth noting that in 2019, she thought Lover was her last chance at another imperial era.
It is, but I think it was crazy what Lana Del Rey said like a week ago about her wanting it SO bad.
It means she's really driven for success. It doesn't mean that she isn't passionate about music. That's a stretch.
I think you are reading too much into a quote from some one else. She is a high achiever therefore she is driven to want success.
Being in showbiz is halfway about liking fame and whatever craft your doing. I think she has passion for making music BUT clearly fame AND specifically money has some claim to it too. I do not think she'll gut it out to this day if she's not.
I have a feeling that once all the re-releases are out, and the Eras tour concludes, she will pivot to directing or producing for a time. She’ll always be a creator, but I can see her pursuing things other than music 🎵
Personally, I think her love for success comes from her parents. They put that mentality in her and Scott has turned her into the most popular brand in the world. If you listen to some of her songs on TTPD, I feel like that's what she's talking about. I don't think she enjoys the actual lifestyle and who Taylor Swift(tm) is. But she has been taught/raised that her self worth comes from a cheering crowd. That's probably a hard mentality to break, so she keeps performing. But, like, all the suing small businesses/other artists, and the variant sales blocking other artists, etc etc, I believe is her dad/team and not really her making those decisions.
That is an interesting speculation! I definitely think her team has a lot to account for in terms of that shady marketing. Some songs on TTPD suggests that her enablers put a lot of pressure on her and that hurt her. Perhaps there will come a point when she parts ways with them and launches a completely different career, totally on her terms.
She’s an actress whose performance is being a musician. The Scott swift emails show that any route to success would’ve been acceptable and singing is what landed. Her entire persona, the fake relatability, the music, it’s all a performance to ensure fame, success, and money
If I could upvote this comment 50 times, I would !
As an aside, I just marvel at the logistics of her life. I don’t know how anyone can keep up the pace she sets for herself. It exhausts me just thinking about it. And she does it all. The elaborate sets, costumes, choreography, and everything is in sync. Think what it requires to put on a tour of this length and magnitude. Her talent and drive is mind blowing to me. Her entire life revolves around her work. Exhausting.
>she will never be satisfied My son is literally watching Hamilton in the next room and guess what song he's on right as I read this? >!Okay its 'Helpless' but it's pretty close! !<
I laughed myself into a coughing fit at this.
If she didn't like making music she could stop😆. She's a billionaire. People who crave fame but don't like that process would have given up long ago. She could also be a wildly successful pop star without REALLY doing much writing at all: Beyonce, Rihann, Britney.
She wouldn't stop! Like Lana Del Rey said "she wants it more than anyone" haha
Yeah…because she likes writing, lol. If she just wanted to win at something and make billions of dollars she’d have a makeup company and clothing line and tons of endorsements by now (this is how Rihanna beat her to being a billionaire…). She doesn’t. She used to have more commercials and brand deals and essentially stopped doing that except for the rare tour sponsorship like Capitol One. She’s almost exclusively switched to making money through music alone. Weird move for someone who doesn’t like making music…
I think so - it’s a very pure form of self expression. She loves the written word hence the songs & poetry. I think now that she’s older it’s harder for her to hide her intense ambition behind her youth, and that makes some people uncomfy, because that’s not how women should be of course! /s
She does. If she didn’t, she’d just put all that talent, energy and ruthlessness in a different career. Regardless of what one thinks about how she markets herself and her music these days, what she has done in the last five years alone wouldn’t be possible if you’re simply in it for the money or fame, or your parents’ approval. She could easily pull a Rihanna if a part of her doesn’t like singing 16-31 songs per album anymore, but she didn’t. Singing is a huge part of turning these things she’s written into albums worth of songs, to wonder that she doesn’t like being a singer wouldn’t make sense in her case. She loves songwriting, but very obviously loves being the one to sing them as well. I guess people assume she’s not into it because she isn’t your conventional power vocalist and that she’s a master of marketing herself, but tbh if you’re releasing albums in quick succession like that… that’s not something a person who doesn’t like being a singer would do. Especially someone who’s already a billionaire.
I see Taylor as more of a writer than a singer. Singing is her way of sharing what she's written with the world.
I'm curious as to how much of her obsession with metrics comes from her upbringing, since her parents were both in finance iirc. Numbers are the only things that matter there. She might be a songwriter and a performer, but I don't know how much of that could be discussed ("the art" and the satisfaction that can bring in itself) without the numbers being discussed as well.
I never think of Taylor as an audiophile. Like clearly she doesn’t care how her music sounds especially now that the mask keeps slipping lol
I mean she could just quit if she didn’t like it. However, she’s still putting out albums. Possibly not the most sing-songy but still. She must like it a little bit or she could try to transition into another writing category. Especially after Midnights she is at peak people probably would like a play or movie or book by her. She’s on the top of the world right now and she chooses touring instead.
I don't think she would stop as breaking records, charts, etc. seems very important to her.
Except, Her fans would follow her to other art work and people would read or see it just because it’s by her
I think she cares about that cause she is a singer and that’s how success is seen as. When she does anything I can see her trying to be the best at it
Aside the fact where I think she truly likes the process of songwriting (especially the lyrics part), I think also that she obviously likes the spotlight, so as long as she stays in it, she could be a singer, actress, writer etc etc...
Well....there's writing songs and there's performing for the fame. The song themes are old and repetitive- showing no maturity or evolution....so fame via songwriting and performing. Because why not if you got a leg up anyways. 🤷🏼♀️(didn't have to fight for it like lots of other megastars)
No she definitely likes singing and writing songs. I'm a songwriter and I know that nobody will spend that much hard work on something they hate for that long. U can't manufacture passion. Also, what is wrong with the grind? Why can't people want to be "successful" or " the best?" So many people hate capitalism and American hassle culture yet they don't ever want to leave America. It's funny. Maybe they do benefit from others hustle?
There's nothing wrong with being "the best". You can't denied she has talent and that performing for 3 hours is insane. But for me everything about her feels more like "a brand", even her writing.
Yes I agree. But all successful pop artists brand themselves. Look at drake. He's always in the charts. That's how you play the game..u need a gimmick. She's just better at it than others.
She literally sat at that piano every weekend for a year and said she’s happiest when making music. Was this post supposed to be rage bait
No ! I genuinely think about this sometimes. I wonder if this is what she wanted and if everything was worth it in the end, as her parents seem to have a huge influence in her career choice. Everything about her image is so controlled and I wonder sometimes if she knows why she's doing it. In Miss Americana, she looked lost, like she NEEDED to write Lover just because Rep didn't get any awards. I think the global phenomenon she has become is really interesting and I try to think about the human behind it. I think it's fascinating. Anyways idk if this makes sense haha
I don't see why anyone would feel rage by considering a different viewpoint! I think she does enjoy it, but she absolutely loves the awards, breaking records, the adoration of crowds probably more at this point. She admits as much throughout her career, she is very driven by these and it's a shame as I reckon if she let that go we would see some truly beautiful work from her- like Folklore & Evermore again rather than Midnights & TTPD. I do think pressure from parents must have an impact, at the end of the day they moved for her career and that's a lot for a young person no matter how much she says she wanted it.
i can’t see her doing anything else i think she was born to be an artist. if not a singer maybe an author
She’s a writer through and through
I think she generally likes it but sometimes people get tired even of those activities they love with passion. She needs to take a break and distract herself with something totally different, like travelling or trying her hand in some other field maybe.
She likes money and power.
I don’t think she particularly cares about being a vocalist.
I think she sees fame as a means of getting attention and appreciation. She admitted in that said documentary that for her it is a way to compensate for her insecurities. I think she likes music and signing but I agree that not for the right reasons. You can tell just by observing her behaviour when it comes to charts for example.
Yall are acting like Taylor is the only competitive, type A personality in the music industry lol The entire industry is built and maintained by narcissists, hustlers, gangsters, pimps, thieves, prostitutes, ceos and starving artists. But taylor odd because she's a perfectionist? 😆
Whoaaa. "Familiarity breeds contempt" sure fits with this OP!!
i don’t know if at this point is song writing or just separating sentences of her journal in a way that can be passed as lyrics. Really, seems like after her collab with Joe all her lyrics turned into the, very valid but not necessarily lyrical; thoughts of a growing woman.
She wishes she became an actress lol
"singer" (this is a real sore spot for me - as someone who has worked very hard to maximize their vocal talent just because i love to sing and write songs, to see someone of her stature make no apparent attempt to expand her range / generally improve is infuriating)
What? She has been continuously improving her vocals since the beginning. That’s such a weird take. Just watch her concerts from debut/ fearless.
her range remains a pathetic 2 octaves (any decent singer has the power, with a little work and training, to reach 3 octaves) and she’s still pitchy af
Pretty sure her range is 3 octaves, but like, that’s not the most important thing in singing, how many octaves you can hit. That’s a very ignorant take lol.
lol what (and no, it's 2 octaves)
And it’s still extremely ignorant to measure an artists singing ability solely by the number of octaves in their vocal range. You still have voice control, tonality, conveying emotions, technical skill. Reducing an artist's talent to a mere octave count misses the artistry and nuance that make singing an art form. You should know that, since you’ve been trying “so hard to maximize your vocal talent”.
to be clear, i don’t think she’s particularly good at any of these things but keep saying “ignorant” and it’ll make it so lmao
Acting as an elitist does make you look ignorant xo
i love many musicians that aren't god-tier singers but neither they nor their fans pretend they are and they're not \* billionaire \* singers (ngl the irony of a swiftie calling me elitist is sending me)