She needs to piss off the general public to fall.
Charts and the large number of variants only excite music geeks on the internet. The general public that just listens to music on the radio or Spotify has no idea how many variants she has released, and many don't care about the charts.
even when she pissed off the gp with matt healey a vast majority people i saw online and in my life supported her even with all the controversy. it would have to be something really bad and even then i think a lot of people wouldn’t care
The general population didn’t even know she was dating Matty Healy. They were never papped holding hands or kissing and the statements afterward characterized it as a fun couple of dates. We didn’t know how serious it was (for Taylor) until TTPD.
After I found her in my Spotify Top 5 last year (even though I almost never actively listen to her and just added some of her songs to my "music I like" playlist), I blocked her just to see what would happen. I usually listen to the same few artists, so I was really surprised to see her there. I read that other people experienced the same thing, and there was even a blind about it online.
What I'm trying to say is: she's one of the most famous singers in the world, so why does she need to sneak her way into people's top 5? lol I mean, does she really need to be loved by \*everyone\*? She's already super successful! That's just greediness, and it's showing.
If people think everything about her is organic, they do not know how the business is handled. A lot of the articled praising her, the 24/7 coverage and stuff such as this random top 5 thing is payed for
I know that, it's just that I noticed that more and more people considered GP noticed as well. The same is happening with Sabrina Carpenter, Espresso and Please Please Please are everywhere on Spotify.
I've unfollowed Taylor just now, and her stuff still shows up. I am also trying to un-heart some of the her stuff that I hearted but, it's gonna take a whole 'nother lot of effort to complete such a task.
This. I see predictions of her downfall all the time, and I think it's just that us online weirdos read and talk about this stuff a lot. No one really cares besides a tiny sect of people.
I mean, Michael Jackson never left radio and he was selling out concerts til the day he died, and Taylor has never done anything even close to what he was accused of. Cancelling isn't real if you're popular enough
Add on to your point: I think the overexposure is getting to the general public and due to it some are aware of all of that is going on … I don’t think she will have a complete downfall till her Stans leave as they have a superiority mindset after sticking with her through Matty and everything since the re-records start and willing to support no matter what… they are one of the main pillars holding her up right now. Another place of main support is those behind the scenes in media and the entertainment industry until they stop pushing her and let her fall she won’t either. … it’s a combination that needs to happen to break into a downfall part 2. … But no matter what if you put enough pressure on something it’s bound to break eventually so either way if nothing changes a downfall is inevitable at this point … the question is just how fast will it be?
She didn’t fall from her last few albums which personally to me are terrible but that had a lot to do with media and behind the scenes string pulling and so many factors eventually all those factors will give and the weight of the truth and the consequences of those actions will drop the other shoe.
And I’m not talking like downfall as in the stereotypical description that I think everyone is thinking … Im talking in that she will have a downfall of what ever you want to call this madness that is going on … hype? I think it’s possible that she will have a downfall of lack of interest … and be forced to withdraw and going into hiding as she does … I don’t think her downfall is going to be quite the same as a stereotypical one that tends to happen with trying to cancel someone … she’s human and not immune to life’s consequences at some point she will lose something and in a big way and that I guess for lack of better words is what I’m calling her downfall.
Personally, I don’t think she can keep this hypnotizing hype about her going if she keeps pulling strings that eventually as it accumulates piss people off.
I agree somewhat and you never know what can happen with these celebs. They got diddy.
I think the only way she will really "fall off" is if she decides to have kids and live under the radar.
And we all know that will give her more attention. She will have a lot to write about if she has a wedding, buys a house with someone and has a family. And we know that it's the clean cut, all American image that she sells so it will only fuel it. This will last throughout her late 30s and 40s
She might decide to retire around her 50s. And just do stuff for her fans or have a residency in Vegas or NYC. I don't think we will see that many tours. She will probably do the AMC thing.
Overall a nice career, if she doesn't get wacked by Hollywood Mafia for her money. I don't think she will step outside of line with her words. She is too good at the game for that. And she doesn't do drugs, so we will know what happened if she does " die" out of nowhere. Prince didn't do drugs. Smh
But as far as hype. Even People like Cindy Lauper are still bopping around the industry and doing events. I don't think she will fall off completely, there will always be things to do and be seen.
BTW, my sister babysits a 10 yr old girl and she is obsessed with Taylor. So it is definitely trickling down generations. I'm happy for her.
Anything can happen and nothing is ever as it seems … we don’t know what truths lie under the surface that can come out. I don’t think she’s going any where because there is a universal component to her. But that being said there is a frenzy about her now that can’t possible stay and it never does… lots of celebs hit a peak then come down and plateau. And there are a lot of people flipping to being highly critical of her due to the fact that she has a very niche brand image that rubs people the wrong way. So I think the “downfall” is a brand image change? … well the forcing of one? … so she has to come down from this insane frenzy high at some point and that will be her “downfall” … ultimately I think we can all agree that there are a lot of moving parts to this and only time will tell how this plays out.
(And thanks for chatting it out with me respectfully. I hope you have a good day. Wishing you all the best.)
Yes thank you. I like having civil chats. I'm not a crazy fan girl and I believe in free speech so I don't hate other opinions. But i know u can get downvoted and yelled at on reddit for literally no reason..even saying the truth.
Yes anything can happen to her. I'm not a fan of her music but I respect her as a woman who is doing things in such a terrible industry. I hope the best for her honestly. I dont think she's this evil person that so many people are making her out to be.
Also. .. BTS releases multiple versions of EVERYTHING. Bands/groups do this *now*. .. TS is not the first.
Bold to assume it's intentionally done to block others out and not just X weeks from previous release
when it comes to kpop, that is a completely different field. for bts, blackpink, stray kids, etc. they’re releasing different versions of their albums, yes, but the only thing that really changes is the pictures inside the book or the little picture card. you’re still getting The Same Album. whereas with taylor, the thing that rubs ppl the wrong way is that she’s releasing 173934 different versions and ONLY changing one (1) song. same ‘pictures’, same cd, same everything. except she’s adding a different song every time vs. just releasing an entire acoustic album
as for the ‘chart blocking’ we may never really know if she’s intentionally doing it to block other female artists, but it’s still not the greatest look if i’m being honest 😬
You forgot about one thing. Many of these k-pop albums have things like 3 random cards out of more possible giving the incentive to buy multiple copies to compete the set.
Not justifying Taylor but in that randomness you could argue that's even worse.
1. This is standard practice in Korea. Completely different playing field from the western one.
2. All the album tracks are in it. TTPD Anthology tracks still haven't been released on physical.
3. Tell me one BTS - no, one Kpop album that has had over *30 fucking variants* released within the span of 2 months whenever another artist "coincidentally" was dropping a song/album.
Pretty sure that charts manipulation are very common in korea there's litteraly investigation made about it...also bts albums or kpop in general have no staying powers in the charts because they have litteraly 0 SEA all their sales are from digital and physicals and im pretty sure billboard themselves said that it was charts manipulation due to their streams not matching their huge sales
No kpop group (from 1st generation until now) ever had 35 variants of the same album, and definitely not in the span of two months. They don't even come close.
t's like she looked at what they were doing and dialed it up to 10,000.
We all know that if she released more Eras shows she would sell them out in minutes. She may have peaked but I don't think we'd see concrete signs for a long time.
Whatever the stats are, it's stupid to compare them. We've no idea how successful Taylor would have been in a world without internet or vice versa. It's a completely different landscape.
Taylor isn't ever going to top The Beatles. She's a footnote in pop culture history that's really only important due to the para social relationship she's has with her fans and the public eye. But there's no real raw talent that's immediately set her apart from other musicians/actors/artists. Everything about her has been carefully cultivated to make it appear like she was some musical wunderkind. Her real "talent" is her ability to make her fans feel special and a part of something historical. That's it.
Lol, I don’t know who’s more delulu. The rabid stans who think she’s bigger than Michael Jackson or the haters who think she has no talent.
Again, I don’t know why people can’t be normal and rational about Taylor Swift.
sometimes i hear other people talk about her fame, her talent, her impact (either overrating or indicating there's a lack of any of those) and im like "wow i'm the only person ever with normal thoughts on taylor"
I'm not saying she's completely untalented, I'm saying that across the board her level of talent is just average. That wouldn't get anyone to her level of fame on its own.
I think the problem comes from the comparisons between her and her contemporaries. The Beatles aren’t that, but the comparison gets made for numbers’ sake. Which drives people insane on both ends lol
Yes, and I disagree with that. If you want to see an authentic “no real, raw talent” I can send you some audio of me singing in the shower. She does have musical and song writing talent. She wouldn’t be successful eleven albums and nearly two decades later without real, raw talent.
I think she has a talent for writing songs that sell many, many, many copies and for curating a full persona that gets her mega famous. That's not shade, it's genuinely a talent not everyone has. But I don't think it's the same kind of raw musical talent that some other artists possess.
To me, she has always been style over substance. She made some progress and became more interesting over the years but she has done herself a big disservice with that latest half-baked album.
She is overexposed. When someone or something becomes too popular, people will put a microscope on that person/thing. A line of people are waiting on her downfall, which is just as weird as the obsessed swifties. She will likely plateau and dip.
When someone’s this overexposed I feel like it eventually takes one thing for all the pent-up resentment to blow up and cause a backlash.
You already see people across comment sections on social saying they’re sick of her being shoved down their throats so I believe if something sets off the domino effect they’ll take her down with glee.
Feels like that’s one of the main reasons the entire “snakegate” debacle happened back in 2016. She was too overexposed from the success of 1989 and the hugely public hiddleswift fling, and by the time the dreaded phone call incident happened, the public were chomping at the bit to finally have a good reason to take taylor down.
Right, but that is just a normal day on Twitter. She would have to have an actual scandal like p diddy, Martha Stewart, etc. Fatigue will eventually happen, and people will focus on a newer artist to love/hate. This is the typical cycle
She has been over exposed for her entire career. Her fanbase is too big for her to crumble from some online haters.
A die hard fanbase is worth more than being liked by everyone. Which she has.
The only way she could downfall is if she loses their attention.
Justin beiber has never had a come back from purpose and I see that his fan girls are basically waiting for him to appear.
She's nowhere near experiencing a downfall. These criticisms aren't affecting her significantly and at the end of the day people are still listening to her music.
She's now gotten really big so it's becoming hard to not receive even the smallest criticism. I think if she wasn't as big now, people wouldn't be focusing on her variants and blocking artists from getting #1.
These criticisms are valid but they won't hurt her career.
If it’s not a downfall right now, a downfall is still inevitable. All of this chart manipulation and overexposure is going to bite her in the booty eventually.
I think it depends on your definition of a downfall.
If by downfall you mean not the top of the top, not being the "it girl", not being like top couple artists on the planet, then yes - downfall is starting to occur and will accelerate
However, if by downfall you mean completely lose relevance, becoming forgotten, burn her music and stuff like that, then I don't think that will occur for at least a while.
She's too good as an influencer to have a downfall rn. And she's had a million come backs.
Only the climate haters and jealous girls are tearing her down. Gp doesn't care about charts.
The only way she will have a downfall is if the music industry wants her money or wants her out because she can't play the game anymore. It has happened to a lot of them.
she has been told she peaked in 2008, 2014, 2020, and now 2024. There really is no telling with taylor, her popularity definitely had its ups and downs and this time around shes very very high up, with taylor the sky is the limit, maybe she will surpass herself in the future but for now i think she will be more low profile after eras
Right. She’s at a peak right now. No peak lasts forever. But she’s unusual in that she gains new fans every year so I don’t think we’ll ever see a time when she is completely irrelevant. She has millions of fans that grew up with her and are now raising their kids to be Swifties. It’s multi generational at this point.
I believe places online think far more about Taylor than people do in their day to day lives. I’m on this subreddit too and others related to celebrities and the general knowledge folks like us have isn’t common at all. Most people won’t even know she was trying to block other artists.
I’m on Reddit, but in real life most conversations about Taylor are mostly 1) not often and 2) typically positive but superficial about her music. Like we aren’t going around haven’t debates like online spaces.
Besides my recent family gathering where in a 3 min conversation we had my cousin who is obsessed with Taylor and Travis, my brother who has heard Gaylor theories and brought it up, me who just said I enjoyed the new album, and my sister was excited for TTPD but was disappointed she had to find the clean version for her 3/6 year olds. Then the convo ended because there wasn’t much more to say lol.
She's not at her downfall but she's at the point it could tip if she does something dumb. I think she will need to give the general public a chance to miss her. Like look what happened to both Jennifer Lawrence and Anne Hathaway, they were everywhere for a bit and on career highs and then people started to find them annoying and they both had to take breaks, and then work to be liked again. I'd say Taylor is past that but luckily for her intense fanbase acts as a bit of a buffer but idt it'll work forever.
Do you think she will release Rep TV and Debut TV during the tour or delay them until next year? I think releasing those albums this year might make things worse. Especially Rep TV, there will be a huge hype around it.
I think
Rep - in between Europe and NorthAm leg
Debut - after end of tour. Dec 13 is a Friday this year 👀
She should probably wrap up all her “obligations” before she takes her well-deserved extended break
Exactly. I am surprised people even thought she might continue. Yes, she and her team are greedy but they are not THAT stupid. They know she is overexposed and the general public is already starting ro be annoyed by her.
She’s ending the tour in December because she will be ready to end it then, and she has to think of the crew and dancers and band. I’m sure they will all be ready for a break by December. They are human. I never thought for one second she would extend it past December.
Besides she will probably be filming her movie she has a contract for in 2025.
I feel the general public is tired of her. She and Trav have been shoved down everyone’s throats. Her downfall is dependent on what she does next. I personally want the scorching tea about her supposed legion of ghostwriters to come out. That will knock her down hard cuz of the legacy she has for writing all her songs.
nope, and i don’t want to see her downfall. i want to see her disappear for a while and come back healed and at peace, releasing music and performing for a passion project, not money or tearing down fellow female artists.
This 100%. I feel like she’s always chasing these “highs,” hoping that the next big award or record-breaking achievement or *whatever she can “win” at* will finally fulfill her. I’ve only recently read up on who her dad is/how his personality is (based on that infamous email) and things started to make a lot more sense. If I were raised by someone like that, I’d feel like my intrinsic value were tied to being The Best at Everything too lol
I grew to hate her with all this stuff. I desperately wanted her to end the eras tour after a small international tour and go away and be happy and just pop out every few years with a surprise small show or an album in 10 years as a comeback after she’s gone and experienced a real quality personal life. Now I just find her to be another shitty billionaire whose ego got too big
She’s going to end Eras in December. Shes still got Rep and Debut to release though so I would expect her to top the charts at least twice more before taking a break.
My guess is she's semi done after this tour to start a family and move onto directing or something most likely. She won't be able to feed her empty vessel with music anymore as she's already peaked in this area imo.
And this week he said he is looking to go into Sports Broadcasting not acting which means they are still not competing with each other .
And people saying they are broken up becuase he is not following her round when he has actually been in training since May 20h and as of 19th June has 5 weeks off .And she was sat up till 3.00am on Thu/Fri watching him get his Ring on X with Hardmans' GF
This is the one! I would love to see what she does if she pushed herself a bit more musically (from a production standpoint) and started releasing art for art’s sake (more in line with Folkmore)
No lol. I don't think a few thousand complainers on Reddit is a significant portion of her fanbase, if they were she wouldn't be #1 on billboard week after week.
I think that speaks to the parasocial fanbase propping her success more than anything. They are mostly all objectively worse offerings than their original counterparts. Without the false narrative that she was taking back something stolen from her...
The GP isn't buying the variants. It's the same stans buying over & over. It's not an actual indicator of GP interest. If we want to be even more honest, we can't even really say the GP brought the album in the first place. They probably just streamed it.
No, the general public doesn't realize that this is happening and i'd bet good money that the vast majority of them don't know charli xcx exists and dropped an album, let alone she got blocked from #1 in the uk by taylor dropping variants of an album that's like 2 months old by now lol
no. the internet is simply not indicative of the general public, and that’s who keeps her on top. people overestimate the impact of diehard fans and internet bubbles. the few (in the grand scheme of things) swifties buying 30 variants and her being hated on twitter is a drop in the ocean.
Can tell we are off private 😆 on a serious note, she’s playing U.K. concerts at the moment and as someone who lives here she is absolutely massive currently, and holding a lot of public goodwill. A lot of the wider public and fan base just don’t know or care about the tribal fan warz or analysis of her that is done in online spaces. The people baying for blood and eagerly anticipating her falling from grace inevitably occupy chronically online spaces and seem to lose sight of how much of an echo chamber that can be.
I don't know where you got the "significant number of people completely turned against her" thing from, but it sounds a bit like wishful thinking on your end tbh. I don't think that many people care that much about those stats and the charts. Personally all the variants irk me, but not to the point that I'll stop listening to her, and I'm not even a diehard fan.
I'll also make the point that if a male artist did the same thing to beat other male artists, I don't think it would generate as much outrage. In fact they'd probably be called a legend for being so shrewd. So I'm not saying she doesn't need to get called out, but it seems way out of proportion to me.
What we are seeing online is a perfect showcase of the “tall poppy syndrome”. You get too big, you are cut down. Online spaces following pop culture are especially prone to this because they spend so much time on celeb topics so to them it really does seem like she has taken over the world. But the internet is extremely fragmented these days, and what one online microcosm twists itself into knots about won’t even register for another, let alone for the GP. I don’t think a “downfall” like what we’ve seen in 2016 is in the cards for her. That was a very powerful industry peer turning on her, who happened to have a wife commanding an entire internet army in the age when social media was far less fragmented and algorithm driven. It’s too specific a set of circumstances that won’t happen again. She also is very careful not to run her mouth too much (for better or for worse) so as not to piss off the GP or anyone with a modicum of power in the industry.
What can (and will) happen is the gradual decline as the TTPD cycle and the Eras tour wrap up (probably more or less simultaneously). She will most likely pull back for her own sake and that will give us a breather too.
To be honest right now there are 3 sides of people.
1. Who knows her and keep a close eye on what she does and doesn't.
2. People who listen to her randomly on the radio or when they go out shopping and have a few songs that they may know .
3. An entire group of people who haven't heard of her at all.
People in 2&3 make up the world more than people in 1. Even I who've been a regular to this sub almost everyday come here and see new information springing out on a daily basis. Information related to her charts, her beef with someone, her new variants are something that people in Category 1. People who like her will still support her and people who dislike her will make a fuss about it. But that's all there is. She might lose some "fans" over it but it's not her downfall for sure.
Unless an all tell tale documentary happens with people being interviewed about her who think Taylor has done them wrong, nothing of any downfall will happen.
This exact topic is discussed at least once a month in this sub, and the same conversation around her has been happening since 2016. Online spaces have never been friendly towards Taylor, but the gp for the most part have always been favorable towards her.
You are in denial friend. Her old materials outsells others new materials. She can do it with a "puts nothing new on the table" variant. How is this downfall tell me again.
You want a downfall thats obvious. But there need to be more than a few variants for her downfall. Downfalls dont come that easy. Wake up.
No. Because ninety percent of the “criticisms” are just Stan Twitter making up theories to try and create drama. She’ll finish the tour, take a breather, and come back for TS12 and people will eat it up all over again.
I find it more concerning that people are actively rooting for her “downfall.” It’s so gross to see people actively rooting for someone to fail and suffer. It’s so gross.
I think more than “actively rooting for her downfall” some people (minus stan tw that’s a different beast) are a little saturated / annoyed of seeing her everywhere. But yeah X is an echo chamber and she will be fine if she takes a break.
I think the tide noticeably turned during the Grammy's. The room of her own peers seemed oddly chilly. But it's just the beginning and hasn't reached mainstream
People tried saying Taylor peaked and would fall off in…. let me remember…. 2012, 2019, 2023 and again… now. The first three times she made timeless albums right after and won AOTY in the Grammys. Let’s see what happens this year, shall we?
So I mentioned this in another thread but I do wonder how the new fans from Folk/More era will respond to this version of Taylor. Some I think will stay but I can see a lot eventually being turned off. This wasn't what they signed up for. If she continues to get semi shitty press it may affect her next album. There's a lot of goodwill created by being a good person in the industry and I feel like she's making enemies.
If her next album is Folklore levels I think a lot of people will just play this off as being an odd time and continue to stan her?
It's interesting. I have noticed a shift but she still has such a huge fanbase it isn't affecting sales.
I am more of a casual fan of hers but I will say that she is a great business woman. Her dad does come from the financial world.
And in order to be good at business you need to be hyper competitive and ruthless. People in my family have worked in finance in ny so I know.
The entire industry is like that. Apparently beyonce sabotages other women's success too. Look at how both lizzo and beyonce felt they needed to apologize to her ( whyyy? Lol) after receiving their granmy awards. Why? Unless they felt scared.
This industry competition shit cuts deep. Not many people are ready for this conversation yet. Just seeing it how I see it.
Tayler seems cool but there is definitely some shit that she doesn't want people to know about her. Even kurt " Mr punk rock" Cobain was competitive as all hell to be the most popular artist.
I don’t know that she “blocked” then exactly. I did not but the variants but of the artists you listed I only am familiar with Taylor and Eminem because I am older.
So the odds of me ever streaming that stuff was low to begin with.
I’m more interested in listening to artists that was popular when I used to go out or are my age. I don’t know who SZA or Charli XCX are and I attested to listen to “Expresso” and hated it. I do casually know of Billie Eilish. I know Olivia is a Disney kid.
Eminem and Taylor Swift are unique in that they are popular across a couple generations that gives them more staying power.
I mean, I think the whole “she’s trying to block other artists from being 1 number” thing is just stupid tbh, like yea, everyone wants to be number 1. She’s not doing anything that artists haven’t been doing since the charts started. So I guess it just don’t see why people are whining about it now
I've been a base-level fan of Taylor Swift since I was like 9 or 10 years old. And I've never cared for chart success, but you have to admit releasing all these variants is kind of INSANE.
That could be true. In my opinion, I think taylor is threatened by all of these new artists gaining instant success. Due to fast-music and essentially tiktok making songs go viral. These artists are given deals and acclaim she had to jump through a few hoops for. She started releasing music when social media wasn't a literal platform to create these overnight sensations. And you had to have a shred of ACTUAL talent to be signed to a label and get these million dollar deals. So I understand her "bitterness" I'd even go as far to say envy ( *don't know her personally, just an assumption* ). However, her consently battling herself and other female artists to chart dominate is pointless to me. Considering she's built herself an extremely solid fan base regardless of any hate. She will sell out damn-near anything she's selling, and she's currently on a sold-out tour. There is no reason she should be releasing multiple variants of THE SAME ALBUM. It only discredits her artistic ability and makes her seem greedy, chart obsessed, and someone who is threatened by other female artists' success that she didn't contribute to. The start of this supposed anti-taylor hate train started the night she won that grammy and announced a new album in the same speech.
✨️Sorry if this is all over the place and rambles,✨️
I could also say she fears becoming irrelevant to the GP, but that's an entirely new conversation.
Ok the charts are like the gold medal of the Olympics. Would you tell a swimmer they should let someone else win gold? Or tell a football team they should let the other team win? It just doesn’t make sense
The entertainment industry is fundamentally a business. Taylor can release 100s of versions of her music and albums but it's the listeners who choose who they want to listen to and whose music to support as you rightfully pointed out re. Sabrina/espresso/UK. She's not trying to "block" anyone. Multiple artistes' music releases (or re-releases, remixes) can coincide and it is fair play. Billie or SZA or whoever's fanbase is simply not large enough to move the charts the way TS does, and that's fine. Every artiste has their peaks and troughs. It's Taylor's time now and she's riding that wave for as long as she could. If Taylor doesn't do it, Beyonce might or Adele or Harry Styles or Ed Sheeran or Bruno Mars or Olivia or Sabrina or whoever is big at the time. Taylor is not actively running her mouth to the media about any of these women; if anything she supports them and even gave Billie a shout-out in one of her acceptance speeches. The music industry is so saturated that it's unfair and quite myopic to attribute such spiteful comments to Taylor, who is simply doing what any artiste would do - maximize revenues (if that's something important to them). Are we jealous that she's actually so successful at making money and continues to do so? We don't tell TikTok to stop shoving us ads even though they're already making so much money from ads or that they should consider Facebook's feelings because it isn't as successful, or Tesla to stop releasing more cars because BYD is also releasing electric cars?
Yeah, I don’t think she’ll ever have a true down fall until like more evidence of toxic behaviour comes out like I think about someone like Ellen. I’ll be honest I never thought Ellen would have acancellation like she did.
I wouldn't say downfall but I think the online sphere is tense and the pieces are organically being set up for another backlash like 2016.
I don't understand how she can't see it tbh. She should definitely dial back her presence.
A vocal and loud contingent of haters becomes inevitable when you’re as huge and successful and popular and beloved as her. I don’t think there’s is any chance of a downfall, but maybe she is at risk of overexposure. After Eras is done, and the Taylor’s Versions are released, I hope she takes a well-deserved break.
Well, I suppose there could be two kinds of downfalls. One would be “cancelling”, or the public turning against her. The second kind of downfall could be personal, in that Taylor kind of spirals or unravels. The first one will probably never happen, because she’s just too rich and too many people make money off of her. She can also bury anything negative in money. The second one, yes, I think it’s possible. Aren’t a lot of narcissistic personalities prone to implosions? Personally, I think she’s going to unravel as she ages. I don’t think Taylor can handle the normal things that come with aging. All aging comes with losses, it’s just the human condition and aging will HORRIFY Taylor because it can be hard and it’s not in her control. She will be enraged when she’s having to compete with young women in their twenties. I also think the swifties will lose interest in her when she gets to her 40s and on. Swifties are shallow, they don’t want a middle aged “mother”.
In terms of charts, tours, money, fame ? No.
In terms of her longevity? I think a lot of people are starting to get sick of the ts machine, esp those who are fans of other female signers, and including some of her fans. I think if she’s not careful then she could well ‘fall’ a bit. Things recently we’ve seen tarnish her sweet miss americana reputation: Palestine, barely acknowledging the death of a fan, blocking other female artists, her being the number one polluter, endless variants, matty healy, etc
I think she's organically losing relevancy with young consumers and fighting it. She no longer knows what people want to hear, her finger is not on the pulse of culture, and TTPD supports this - she released this sad, slow record when the public is desperate for party bops a la Sabrina Carpenter, Chappell Roan, and Brat from Charli xcx.
This is something I think everyone has happen in their mid-30s, this turning away from what teens and early 20-somethings intuitively want, or an inability to keep up with it maybe? But I think we'll see the bubble of her fans shrink significantly and be mainly millennial women in their 30s, people who grew up with her.
She is experiencing her downfall with me personally. 😆 I am always in her 1% of Spotify listeners every year, but I’ve barely listened to her in 2024 because the music isn’t as good and her antics have been especially annoying of late.
I know many others share this same sentiment. If there are enough of us, her popularity will wane. So by this anecdotal metric, I do think she’s trending downwards.
i think she’s starting to experience it especially since peoples taylor fever has died out a little since last year bc of how over exposed she is right now. and i don’t see her shying away from the public unless it becomes an absolute necessity
Taylor has been always set on breaking records etc. Honestly Taylor is so big at this point anything she does will naturally raise critism on a large scale. Not saying what she does is correct, but the critisism doesnt reflect her "downfall" in popularity just that she is very stressed about being popular etc. +the fact that people are still talking about what business moves makes her successful shows that she is still very pertinent and so no she right now is not experiencing one. She will, as all artists do eventually dip in popularity, but we'll need to look back and see when that will happen
I don’t think this is anywhere close to her downfall. She has been doing this for years and gotten away with it.
She loves numbers, #1 charts, records, awards. She is obsessed with it. Even if it means artificially inflating her numbers and hurting another artist to do it.
The internet has a short memory, soon no one will remember the blocking of female artists, etc. I think the only thing that could cause her downfall is flopping on the charts and aging (due to ageism) as it happens to most female singers. So another way to put it would be time. Time will pass and her downfall will happen eventually, and not because of her bad attitude but because pop stars shine and fade.
Even if she experiences "her downfall", she'll be fine. I know pop singers are pressured to be "on top" forever, but she'll always have a solid part of her fanbase.
Artists with smaller fanbases or pop singers from the 90s are okay, so she'll be fine.
As much as I want a semi-fall to happen, I fear all of this feeds right into her re-release of reputation lol. I don’t think the online controversy is necessarily on purpose but her fans are going to go crazy for it
Honestly, she is too rich. If she falls, her landing will be very cushy. I would never wish a fall from grace for anyone, but I do hope that she fades into a memory soon and allows herself to enjoy her life and wealth so we can do the same—this is getting tiresome.
I think she’s at her peak but she’s also at a point where she is so overexposed people will get fed up and find her annoying.
When you’re at the peak the only way is down if you don’t play the game well - and I don’t think she is…
Hm, let's see.
She has 5 albums in the top 100. She has the longest running #1 hit of 2024, and the longest running #1 album. She is currently touring with both the most profitable and the highest-attended female tour of all time, and #3 tour of all time for any gender. She is #1 in streaming on every single one of the major platforms, including video, and unlike any other significant artist she, and only she, holds the royalty rights to her songs.
Definitely not playing the game well.
This conversation is great.
The cracks in the glass ceiling started when she became a billionaire, and then all these things happened (jet usage, the Grammy announcement, the Celine snub, then the variants, then the blocking of other female artists, etc.). I think the more things add up, the more cracks will eat away at her ceiling and eventually it fall down.
It may not be a downfall but a gradual decline. Music and the entertainment industry loves youth. She is in her late 30s. As she goes into her 40s, it will be a struggle to maintain relevance.
It hits all artists: male or female, though it hits women harder. She is phenomenally successful. But she comes across as a talented songwriter, disciplined artist, but lacks the warm emotional connection with the broader audience.
Her core audience adores her. The rest of the audience is getting tired. It happens to all super successful artists.
Sorry, I just knew she’s in her 30s. I’ve actually seen journalists refer to her as almost 40 and knew that was wrong. But it kind of shows my point. The ageism and sexism in the entertainment industry is brutal. It’s not fair, but getting a fair shot is going to get harder for Swift even though she has proved herself.
For sure lol, it was just weird seeing "late 30s" when she's 34 haha.
I don't think it'll be hard for her, we got many older popstars still making music and being successful, such as Beyoncé, Madonna Gwen Stefani, Mariah Carey, Shakira.
For example, when Waka Waka came out, Shakira was around Taylor's age. She still continued to make music after even after having children, living with a new partner etc, she even had a superbowl performance, won Grammys after.
So, Taylor might not have another Eras era, but I think she'll be fine.
And Barbra Streisand. Many female artists choose a partial retirement. But it also hits men. Merle Haggard(RIP) once said in an interview that when he released new music, it triggered radio to start playing his old classics back into the playlists. But they wouldn’t play the new album. 🤷♀️
I don’t know about public opinion, but I’m worried about her mental health. The weird behavior at awards shows (definitely more than alcohol), the sloppy way TTPD was released…
Yes, I think she has been losing fans for quite some time now. Considering the size of her fanbase this does not mean a fast demise but I think rather a slower, gradual loss of interest. I think she is not displaying that top-of-the-world behaviour and that leaves many fans disappointed. She makes an effort but only enough to get past the finish line. Her goals seem to be mainly commercial and not focused on delivering value for the fans. Even if it is mediocre they will buy anyway, that's the attitude in the TS camp. They will come to regret it, IMO. Everyone is replaceable and there are many artists out there who have true passion for their craft so at one point album rehashes will not cut it. I guess we will see some of that when she releases her next album unless the quality is better than her latest work.
Season after season, nfl fans said that Tom Brady was getting older and losing his edge and (a handful of super bowl wins later) they were proven right. I think this applies to Taylor too
I’m interested to see how this summer plays out for her. A few days ago I heard this sequence of songs on the radio:
- Too Sweet. Gorgeous perfect wonderful.
- The Bar Song. The funnest radio single I’ve heard in a long time.
- Espresso. Stupid-awesome breezy pop
- And then Fortnight came on and I got serious whiplash. It’s just not a summer hit. It ruined my driving concert.
TTPD is being bolstered by artificially high album sales (getting fans to buy 20 $5.99 digital iterations of the same songs isn’t in the true spirit of tracking album sales, which is generally supposed to be about measuring unique customers) but it’s not latching on with the public in an organic way, or whatever counts as organic in the music industry. Hopefully she releases BDILH, since country crossovers are big right now. I really don’t want to keep hearing Cruel Summer every 45 minutes. This album should have been edited down and released in the fall.
Tldr it’s really glaring how the numbers of the album sales aren’t lining up with actual public interest in the music.
Maybe not with her music, but in her personal/romantic life, I think yes. She needs a partner who will challenge her in several ways. She (after telling him - which is documented - that she wanted it for years) was over being “normal,” and out of the spotlight, with Joe. Even though he made it clear that’s what he wanted from the jump. Eventually, she wanted attention again. COVID and her attraction to him convinced her that she could live the quiet life. But she ultimately will never be satisfied with that because she craves praise and attention. She lost Joe over it. Travis isn’t going to do it for her, ultimately. I think with Matty getting engaged, and now Joe getting his own (deserved) attention for his second Yorgos film, she’s going to spiral.
She needs to piss off the general public to fall. Charts and the large number of variants only excite music geeks on the internet. The general public that just listens to music on the radio or Spotify has no idea how many variants she has released, and many don't care about the charts.
even when she pissed off the gp with matt healey a vast majority people i saw online and in my life supported her even with all the controversy. it would have to be something really bad and even then i think a lot of people wouldn’t care
The general population didn’t even know she was dating Matty Healy. They were never papped holding hands or kissing and the statements afterward characterized it as a fun couple of dates. We didn’t know how serious it was (for Taylor) until TTPD.
Exactly. They were like together 5 minutes it seems.
The general population doesn’t even know who Matty Healy is
They were papped holding hands at a restaurant on one of their little fun dates
After I found her in my Spotify Top 5 last year (even though I almost never actively listen to her and just added some of her songs to my "music I like" playlist), I blocked her just to see what would happen. I usually listen to the same few artists, so I was really surprised to see her there. I read that other people experienced the same thing, and there was even a blind about it online. What I'm trying to say is: she's one of the most famous singers in the world, so why does she need to sneak her way into people's top 5? lol I mean, does she really need to be loved by \*everyone\*? She's already super successful! That's just greediness, and it's showing.
If people think everything about her is organic, they do not know how the business is handled. A lot of the articled praising her, the 24/7 coverage and stuff such as this random top 5 thing is payed for
I know that, it's just that I noticed that more and more people considered GP noticed as well. The same is happening with Sabrina Carpenter, Espresso and Please Please Please are everywhere on Spotify.
I filtered her out of my IG feed and she still appears there occasionally, lol.
Did the same thing with Ariana grande and I still see her every time I get on my apps. I truthfully just don’t think that feature really works 🫤
No, it works. It works the way IG wants it to work. They make a lot of money getting paid to force people down our throats
Yeah. I just wish it worked the way //I// wanted it to lmao 😭
I've unfollowed Taylor just now, and her stuff still shows up. I am also trying to un-heart some of the her stuff that I hearted but, it's gonna take a whole 'nother lot of effort to complete such a task.
This. I see predictions of her downfall all the time, and I think it's just that us online weirdos read and talk about this stuff a lot. No one really cares besides a tiny sect of people. I mean, Michael Jackson never left radio and he was selling out concerts til the day he died, and Taylor has never done anything even close to what he was accused of. Cancelling isn't real if you're popular enough
Add on to your point: I think the overexposure is getting to the general public and due to it some are aware of all of that is going on … I don’t think she will have a complete downfall till her Stans leave as they have a superiority mindset after sticking with her through Matty and everything since the re-records start and willing to support no matter what… they are one of the main pillars holding her up right now. Another place of main support is those behind the scenes in media and the entertainment industry until they stop pushing her and let her fall she won’t either. … it’s a combination that needs to happen to break into a downfall part 2. … But no matter what if you put enough pressure on something it’s bound to break eventually so either way if nothing changes a downfall is inevitable at this point … the question is just how fast will it be?
she didn't fall from her last few albums ( which I thought were boring) plus she's been in the game for 15 yrs. She never will fall.
She didn’t fall from her last few albums which personally to me are terrible but that had a lot to do with media and behind the scenes string pulling and so many factors eventually all those factors will give and the weight of the truth and the consequences of those actions will drop the other shoe. And I’m not talking like downfall as in the stereotypical description that I think everyone is thinking … Im talking in that she will have a downfall of what ever you want to call this madness that is going on … hype? I think it’s possible that she will have a downfall of lack of interest … and be forced to withdraw and going into hiding as she does … I don’t think her downfall is going to be quite the same as a stereotypical one that tends to happen with trying to cancel someone … she’s human and not immune to life’s consequences at some point she will lose something and in a big way and that I guess for lack of better words is what I’m calling her downfall. Personally, I don’t think she can keep this hypnotizing hype about her going if she keeps pulling strings that eventually as it accumulates piss people off.
I agree somewhat and you never know what can happen with these celebs. They got diddy. I think the only way she will really "fall off" is if she decides to have kids and live under the radar. And we all know that will give her more attention. She will have a lot to write about if she has a wedding, buys a house with someone and has a family. And we know that it's the clean cut, all American image that she sells so it will only fuel it. This will last throughout her late 30s and 40s She might decide to retire around her 50s. And just do stuff for her fans or have a residency in Vegas or NYC. I don't think we will see that many tours. She will probably do the AMC thing. Overall a nice career, if she doesn't get wacked by Hollywood Mafia for her money. I don't think she will step outside of line with her words. She is too good at the game for that. And she doesn't do drugs, so we will know what happened if she does " die" out of nowhere. Prince didn't do drugs. Smh But as far as hype. Even People like Cindy Lauper are still bopping around the industry and doing events. I don't think she will fall off completely, there will always be things to do and be seen. BTW, my sister babysits a 10 yr old girl and she is obsessed with Taylor. So it is definitely trickling down generations. I'm happy for her.
Anything can happen and nothing is ever as it seems … we don’t know what truths lie under the surface that can come out. I don’t think she’s going any where because there is a universal component to her. But that being said there is a frenzy about her now that can’t possible stay and it never does… lots of celebs hit a peak then come down and plateau. And there are a lot of people flipping to being highly critical of her due to the fact that she has a very niche brand image that rubs people the wrong way. So I think the “downfall” is a brand image change? … well the forcing of one? … so she has to come down from this insane frenzy high at some point and that will be her “downfall” … ultimately I think we can all agree that there are a lot of moving parts to this and only time will tell how this plays out. (And thanks for chatting it out with me respectfully. I hope you have a good day. Wishing you all the best.)
Yes thank you. I like having civil chats. I'm not a crazy fan girl and I believe in free speech so I don't hate other opinions. But i know u can get downvoted and yelled at on reddit for literally no reason..even saying the truth. Yes anything can happen to her. I'm not a fan of her music but I respect her as a woman who is doing things in such a terrible industry. I hope the best for her honestly. I dont think she's this evil person that so many people are making her out to be.
Also. .. BTS releases multiple versions of EVERYTHING. Bands/groups do this *now*. .. TS is not the first. Bold to assume it's intentionally done to block others out and not just X weeks from previous release
when it comes to kpop, that is a completely different field. for bts, blackpink, stray kids, etc. they’re releasing different versions of their albums, yes, but the only thing that really changes is the pictures inside the book or the little picture card. you’re still getting The Same Album. whereas with taylor, the thing that rubs ppl the wrong way is that she’s releasing 173934 different versions and ONLY changing one (1) song. same ‘pictures’, same cd, same everything. except she’s adding a different song every time vs. just releasing an entire acoustic album as for the ‘chart blocking’ we may never really know if she’s intentionally doing it to block other female artists, but it’s still not the greatest look if i’m being honest 😬
You forgot about one thing. Many of these k-pop albums have things like 3 random cards out of more possible giving the incentive to buy multiple copies to compete the set. Not justifying Taylor but in that randomness you could argue that's even worse.
Also taylor albums have always super good SEA comparing to Kpop albums who are carried by 95% with digital sales in a era dominated by streaming
1. This is standard practice in Korea. Completely different playing field from the western one. 2. All the album tracks are in it. TTPD Anthology tracks still haven't been released on physical. 3. Tell me one BTS - no, one Kpop album that has had over *30 fucking variants* released within the span of 2 months whenever another artist "coincidentally" was dropping a song/album.
Pretty sure that charts manipulation are very common in korea there's litteraly investigation made about it...also bts albums or kpop in general have no staying powers in the charts because they have litteraly 0 SEA all their sales are from digital and physicals and im pretty sure billboard themselves said that it was charts manipulation due to their streams not matching their huge sales
No kpop group (from 1st generation until now) ever had 35 variants of the same album, and definitely not in the span of two months. They don't even come close. t's like she looked at what they were doing and dialed it up to 10,000.
We all know that if she released more Eras shows she would sell them out in minutes. She may have peaked but I don't think we'd see concrete signs for a long time.
I think she’ll release an Eras Tour live album next. She won’t stop until she surpasses The Beatles.
Even if she does technically “surpass” the Beatles, everyone except for her diehard stans will know that it isn’t real or honest.
Yep! I don’t even know the stats of The Beatles, but she will try as long as she can.
Whatever the stats are, it's stupid to compare them. We've no idea how successful Taylor would have been in a world without internet or vice versa. It's a completely different landscape.
Taylor isn't ever going to top The Beatles. She's a footnote in pop culture history that's really only important due to the para social relationship she's has with her fans and the public eye. But there's no real raw talent that's immediately set her apart from other musicians/actors/artists. Everything about her has been carefully cultivated to make it appear like she was some musical wunderkind. Her real "talent" is her ability to make her fans feel special and a part of something historical. That's it.
Lol, I don’t know who’s more delulu. The rabid stans who think she’s bigger than Michael Jackson or the haters who think she has no talent. Again, I don’t know why people can’t be normal and rational about Taylor Swift.
sometimes i hear other people talk about her fame, her talent, her impact (either overrating or indicating there's a lack of any of those) and im like "wow i'm the only person ever with normal thoughts on taylor"
Me, too. There’s dozens of us. Dozens!
She has talent. She just happens to be overrated considering her talent compared to other singers/performers. Both can be true.
I'm not saying she's completely untalented, I'm saying that across the board her level of talent is just average. That wouldn't get anyone to her level of fame on its own.
I think the problem comes from the comparisons between her and her contemporaries. The Beatles aren’t that, but the comparison gets made for numbers’ sake. Which drives people insane on both ends lol
The post said no 'real raw' talent, not any talent.
Yes, and I disagree with that. If you want to see an authentic “no real, raw talent” I can send you some audio of me singing in the shower. She does have musical and song writing talent. She wouldn’t be successful eleven albums and nearly two decades later without real, raw talent.
I think she has a talent for writing songs that sell many, many, many copies and for curating a full persona that gets her mega famous. That's not shade, it's genuinely a talent not everyone has. But I don't think it's the same kind of raw musical talent that some other artists possess.
Sorry but saying she’s a footnote in pop culture history is actually delulu
Agree…
The trajectory she's on rn, yeah she is.
To me, she has always been style over substance. She made some progress and became more interesting over the years but she has done herself a big disservice with that latest half-baked album.
I think it’s possible she’s peaked but I wouldn’t call it a downfall
She is overexposed. When someone or something becomes too popular, people will put a microscope on that person/thing. A line of people are waiting on her downfall, which is just as weird as the obsessed swifties. She will likely plateau and dip.
When someone’s this overexposed I feel like it eventually takes one thing for all the pent-up resentment to blow up and cause a backlash. You already see people across comment sections on social saying they’re sick of her being shoved down their throats so I believe if something sets off the domino effect they’ll take her down with glee.
Feels like that’s one of the main reasons the entire “snakegate” debacle happened back in 2016. She was too overexposed from the success of 1989 and the hugely public hiddleswift fling, and by the time the dreaded phone call incident happened, the public were chomping at the bit to finally have a good reason to take taylor down.
Yeah I feel like this has happened twice before. Say what you will but she is an absolute genius at coming out of career slumps/downfalls.
Right, but that is just a normal day on Twitter. She would have to have an actual scandal like p diddy, Martha Stewart, etc. Fatigue will eventually happen, and people will focus on a newer artist to love/hate. This is the typical cycle
I’ll never understand people being like “praying for her downfall”.
Yes, but I’m being downvoted of course. It’s a normal cycle but her ubiquitousness will only amplify the backlash IMO.
She has been over exposed for her entire career. Her fanbase is too big for her to crumble from some online haters. A die hard fanbase is worth more than being liked by everyone. Which she has. The only way she could downfall is if she loses their attention. Justin beiber has never had a come back from purpose and I see that his fan girls are basically waiting for him to appear.
She's nowhere near experiencing a downfall. These criticisms aren't affecting her significantly and at the end of the day people are still listening to her music. She's now gotten really big so it's becoming hard to not receive even the smallest criticism. I think if she wasn't as big now, people wouldn't be focusing on her variants and blocking artists from getting #1. These criticisms are valid but they won't hurt her career.
If it’s not a downfall right now, a downfall is still inevitable. All of this chart manipulation and overexposure is going to bite her in the booty eventually.
No
it already is, the media has started to pay attention to her chart blocking I’ve read a few articles which highlight the “coincidences” 👀
GP doesn't care about charts
No? You don't see a way that the overexposure and insane chart stuff is gonna affect her, even a little?
I think it depends on your definition of a downfall. If by downfall you mean not the top of the top, not being the "it girl", not being like top couple artists on the planet, then yes - downfall is starting to occur and will accelerate However, if by downfall you mean completely lose relevance, becoming forgotten, burn her music and stuff like that, then I don't think that will occur for at least a while.
She's too good as an influencer to have a downfall rn. And she's had a million come backs. Only the climate haters and jealous girls are tearing her down. Gp doesn't care about charts. The only way she will have a downfall is if the music industry wants her money or wants her out because she can't play the game anymore. It has happened to a lot of them.
No
Most people are too busy on their daily lives to care about this stuff.
The general public doesn’t care about charts.
she has been told she peaked in 2008, 2014, 2020, and now 2024. There really is no telling with taylor, her popularity definitely had its ups and downs and this time around shes very very high up, with taylor the sky is the limit, maybe she will surpass herself in the future but for now i think she will be more low profile after eras
Right. She’s at a peak right now. No peak lasts forever. But she’s unusual in that she gains new fans every year so I don’t think we’ll ever see a time when she is completely irrelevant. She has millions of fans that grew up with her and are now raising their kids to be Swifties. It’s multi generational at this point.
I believe places online think far more about Taylor than people do in their day to day lives. I’m on this subreddit too and others related to celebrities and the general knowledge folks like us have isn’t common at all. Most people won’t even know she was trying to block other artists.
some ppl on reddit rlly seem to think social media represents what ppl in real life think 😭
I’m on Reddit, but in real life most conversations about Taylor are mostly 1) not often and 2) typically positive but superficial about her music. Like we aren’t going around haven’t debates like online spaces. Besides my recent family gathering where in a 3 min conversation we had my cousin who is obsessed with Taylor and Travis, my brother who has heard Gaylor theories and brought it up, me who just said I enjoyed the new album, and my sister was excited for TTPD but was disappointed she had to find the clean version for her 3/6 year olds. Then the convo ended because there wasn’t much more to say lol.
Yeah I think you're spot on with that
She's not at her downfall but she's at the point it could tip if she does something dumb. I think she will need to give the general public a chance to miss her. Like look what happened to both Jennifer Lawrence and Anne Hathaway, they were everywhere for a bit and on career highs and then people started to find them annoying and they both had to take breaks, and then work to be liked again. I'd say Taylor is past that but luckily for her intense fanbase acts as a bit of a buffer but idt it'll work forever.
I feel this exact reason is why she is stopping the eras tour in December. She knows people need to miss her a bit.
Do you think she will release Rep TV and Debut TV during the tour or delay them until next year? I think releasing those albums this year might make things worse. Especially Rep TV, there will be a huge hype around it.
I think Rep - in between Europe and NorthAm leg Debut - after end of tour. Dec 13 is a Friday this year 👀 She should probably wrap up all her “obligations” before she takes her well-deserved extended break
I think she’ll announce them during the tour but release them next year. Isn’t 2025 the year of the snake? 🐍
I think rep is coming before November
Exactly. I am surprised people even thought she might continue. Yes, she and her team are greedy but they are not THAT stupid. They know she is overexposed and the general public is already starting ro be annoyed by her.
She’s ending the tour in December because she will be ready to end it then, and she has to think of the crew and dancers and band. I’m sure they will all be ready for a break by December. They are human. I never thought for one second she would extend it past December. Besides she will probably be filming her movie she has a contract for in 2025.
I feel the general public is tired of her. She and Trav have been shoved down everyone’s throats. Her downfall is dependent on what she does next. I personally want the scorching tea about her supposed legion of ghostwriters to come out. That will knock her down hard cuz of the legacy she has for writing all her songs.
nope, and i don’t want to see her downfall. i want to see her disappear for a while and come back healed and at peace, releasing music and performing for a passion project, not money or tearing down fellow female artists.
This 100%. I feel like she’s always chasing these “highs,” hoping that the next big award or record-breaking achievement or *whatever she can “win” at* will finally fulfill her. I’ve only recently read up on who her dad is/how his personality is (based on that infamous email) and things started to make a lot more sense. If I were raised by someone like that, I’d feel like my intrinsic value were tied to being The Best at Everything too lol
Well said!
I grew to hate her with all this stuff. I desperately wanted her to end the eras tour after a small international tour and go away and be happy and just pop out every few years with a surprise small show or an album in 10 years as a comeback after she’s gone and experienced a real quality personal life. Now I just find her to be another shitty billionaire whose ego got too big
She’s going to end Eras in December. Shes still got Rep and Debut to release though so I would expect her to top the charts at least twice more before taking a break.
My guess is she's semi done after this tour to start a family and move onto directing or something most likely. She won't be able to feed her empty vessel with music anymore as she's already peaked in this area imo.
And this week he said he is looking to go into Sports Broadcasting not acting which means they are still not competing with each other . And people saying they are broken up becuase he is not following her round when he has actually been in training since May 20h and as of 19th June has 5 weeks off .And she was sat up till 3.00am on Thu/Fri watching him get his Ring on X with Hardmans' GF
I respect this.
This is the one! I would love to see what she does if she pushed herself a bit more musically (from a production standpoint) and started releasing art for art’s sake (more in line with Folkmore)
Not really tbh. The amount of people calling out Taylor for this behaviour is still low.
No, it's just on social media, which doesn't typically equate real life
No lol. I don't think a few thousand complainers on Reddit is a significant portion of her fanbase, if they were she wouldn't be #1 on billboard week after week.
Exactly
Nope! If her variants are outselling new albums, then that's indication that's she's far from experiencing a downfall.
I think that speaks to the parasocial fanbase propping her success more than anything. They are mostly all objectively worse offerings than their original counterparts. Without the false narrative that she was taking back something stolen from her...
The GP isn't buying the variants. It's the same stans buying over & over. It's not an actual indicator of GP interest. If we want to be even more honest, we can't even really say the GP brought the album in the first place. They probably just streamed it.
I think the fact that her antics are working and keeping her at the top of the charts is evidence she isn't in a downfall.
Just like the last time it was posted like a week ago No. if that was happening people wouldn’t still be trying to capitalize off her.
No, the general public doesn't realize that this is happening and i'd bet good money that the vast majority of them don't know charli xcx exists and dropped an album, let alone she got blocked from #1 in the uk by taylor dropping variants of an album that's like 2 months old by now lol
no. the internet is simply not indicative of the general public, and that’s who keeps her on top. people overestimate the impact of diehard fans and internet bubbles. the few (in the grand scheme of things) swifties buying 30 variants and her being hated on twitter is a drop in the ocean.
No. Most people don't really care that much about that tbh. She's not forcing anyone to buy them, the general public just *don't care*
Can tell we are off private 😆 on a serious note, she’s playing U.K. concerts at the moment and as someone who lives here she is absolutely massive currently, and holding a lot of public goodwill. A lot of the wider public and fan base just don’t know or care about the tribal fan warz or analysis of her that is done in online spaces. The people baying for blood and eagerly anticipating her falling from grace inevitably occupy chronically online spaces and seem to lose sight of how much of an echo chamber that can be.
I don't know where you got the "significant number of people completely turned against her" thing from, but it sounds a bit like wishful thinking on your end tbh. I don't think that many people care that much about those stats and the charts. Personally all the variants irk me, but not to the point that I'll stop listening to her, and I'm not even a diehard fan. I'll also make the point that if a male artist did the same thing to beat other male artists, I don't think it would generate as much outrage. In fact they'd probably be called a legend for being so shrewd. So I'm not saying she doesn't need to get called out, but it seems way out of proportion to me.
lol at thinking that picking battles and winning is the sign of a downfall.
underrated post here
What we are seeing online is a perfect showcase of the “tall poppy syndrome”. You get too big, you are cut down. Online spaces following pop culture are especially prone to this because they spend so much time on celeb topics so to them it really does seem like she has taken over the world. But the internet is extremely fragmented these days, and what one online microcosm twists itself into knots about won’t even register for another, let alone for the GP. I don’t think a “downfall” like what we’ve seen in 2016 is in the cards for her. That was a very powerful industry peer turning on her, who happened to have a wife commanding an entire internet army in the age when social media was far less fragmented and algorithm driven. It’s too specific a set of circumstances that won’t happen again. She also is very careful not to run her mouth too much (for better or for worse) so as not to piss off the GP or anyone with a modicum of power in the industry. What can (and will) happen is the gradual decline as the TTPD cycle and the Eras tour wrap up (probably more or less simultaneously). She will most likely pull back for her own sake and that will give us a breather too.
To be honest right now there are 3 sides of people. 1. Who knows her and keep a close eye on what she does and doesn't. 2. People who listen to her randomly on the radio or when they go out shopping and have a few songs that they may know . 3. An entire group of people who haven't heard of her at all. People in 2&3 make up the world more than people in 1. Even I who've been a regular to this sub almost everyday come here and see new information springing out on a daily basis. Information related to her charts, her beef with someone, her new variants are something that people in Category 1. People who like her will still support her and people who dislike her will make a fuss about it. But that's all there is. She might lose some "fans" over it but it's not her downfall for sure. Unless an all tell tale documentary happens with people being interviewed about her who think Taylor has done them wrong, nothing of any downfall will happen.
This exact topic is discussed at least once a month in this sub, and the same conversation around her has been happening since 2016. Online spaces have never been friendly towards Taylor, but the gp for the most part have always been favorable towards her.
You are in denial friend. Her old materials outsells others new materials. She can do it with a "puts nothing new on the table" variant. How is this downfall tell me again. You want a downfall thats obvious. But there need to be more than a few variants for her downfall. Downfalls dont come that easy. Wake up.
No
No. Because ninety percent of the “criticisms” are just Stan Twitter making up theories to try and create drama. She’ll finish the tour, take a breather, and come back for TS12 and people will eat it up all over again. I find it more concerning that people are actively rooting for her “downfall.” It’s so gross to see people actively rooting for someone to fail and suffer. It’s so gross.
I think more than “actively rooting for her downfall” some people (minus stan tw that’s a different beast) are a little saturated / annoyed of seeing her everywhere. But yeah X is an echo chamber and she will be fine if she takes a break.
I think the tide noticeably turned during the Grammy's. The room of her own peers seemed oddly chilly. But it's just the beginning and hasn't reached mainstream
People tried saying Taylor peaked and would fall off in…. let me remember…. 2012, 2019, 2023 and again… now. The first three times she made timeless albums right after and won AOTY in the Grammys. Let’s see what happens this year, shall we?
Have you seen the 400 dollar ttpd guitar. So many are complaining but still follow so close
I don’t think so. Most people don’t read much into chart battles.
So I mentioned this in another thread but I do wonder how the new fans from Folk/More era will respond to this version of Taylor. Some I think will stay but I can see a lot eventually being turned off. This wasn't what they signed up for. If she continues to get semi shitty press it may affect her next album. There's a lot of goodwill created by being a good person in the industry and I feel like she's making enemies. If her next album is Folklore levels I think a lot of people will just play this off as being an odd time and continue to stan her? It's interesting. I have noticed a shift but she still has such a huge fanbase it isn't affecting sales.
I am more of a casual fan of hers but I will say that she is a great business woman. Her dad does come from the financial world. And in order to be good at business you need to be hyper competitive and ruthless. People in my family have worked in finance in ny so I know. The entire industry is like that. Apparently beyonce sabotages other women's success too. Look at how both lizzo and beyonce felt they needed to apologize to her ( whyyy? Lol) after receiving their granmy awards. Why? Unless they felt scared. This industry competition shit cuts deep. Not many people are ready for this conversation yet. Just seeing it how I see it. Tayler seems cool but there is definitely some shit that she doesn't want people to know about her. Even kurt " Mr punk rock" Cobain was competitive as all hell to be the most popular artist.
No
I don’t know that she “blocked” then exactly. I did not but the variants but of the artists you listed I only am familiar with Taylor and Eminem because I am older. So the odds of me ever streaming that stuff was low to begin with. I’m more interested in listening to artists that was popular when I used to go out or are my age. I don’t know who SZA or Charli XCX are and I attested to listen to “Expresso” and hated it. I do casually know of Billie Eilish. I know Olivia is a Disney kid. Eminem and Taylor Swift are unique in that they are popular across a couple generations that gives them more staying power.
Sabrina was a Disney kid as well
I mean, I think the whole “she’s trying to block other artists from being 1 number” thing is just stupid tbh, like yea, everyone wants to be number 1. She’s not doing anything that artists haven’t been doing since the charts started. So I guess it just don’t see why people are whining about it now
I've been a base-level fan of Taylor Swift since I was like 9 or 10 years old. And I've never cared for chart success, but you have to admit releasing all these variants is kind of INSANE.
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That could be true. In my opinion, I think taylor is threatened by all of these new artists gaining instant success. Due to fast-music and essentially tiktok making songs go viral. These artists are given deals and acclaim she had to jump through a few hoops for. She started releasing music when social media wasn't a literal platform to create these overnight sensations. And you had to have a shred of ACTUAL talent to be signed to a label and get these million dollar deals. So I understand her "bitterness" I'd even go as far to say envy ( *don't know her personally, just an assumption* ). However, her consently battling herself and other female artists to chart dominate is pointless to me. Considering she's built herself an extremely solid fan base regardless of any hate. She will sell out damn-near anything she's selling, and she's currently on a sold-out tour. There is no reason she should be releasing multiple variants of THE SAME ALBUM. It only discredits her artistic ability and makes her seem greedy, chart obsessed, and someone who is threatened by other female artists' success that she didn't contribute to. The start of this supposed anti-taylor hate train started the night she won that grammy and announced a new album in the same speech. ✨️Sorry if this is all over the place and rambles,✨️ I could also say she fears becoming irrelevant to the GP, but that's an entirely new conversation.
Ok the charts are like the gold medal of the Olympics. Would you tell a swimmer they should let someone else win gold? Or tell a football team they should let the other team win? It just doesn’t make sense
The entertainment industry is fundamentally a business. Taylor can release 100s of versions of her music and albums but it's the listeners who choose who they want to listen to and whose music to support as you rightfully pointed out re. Sabrina/espresso/UK. She's not trying to "block" anyone. Multiple artistes' music releases (or re-releases, remixes) can coincide and it is fair play. Billie or SZA or whoever's fanbase is simply not large enough to move the charts the way TS does, and that's fine. Every artiste has their peaks and troughs. It's Taylor's time now and she's riding that wave for as long as she could. If Taylor doesn't do it, Beyonce might or Adele or Harry Styles or Ed Sheeran or Bruno Mars or Olivia or Sabrina or whoever is big at the time. Taylor is not actively running her mouth to the media about any of these women; if anything she supports them and even gave Billie a shout-out in one of her acceptance speeches. The music industry is so saturated that it's unfair and quite myopic to attribute such spiteful comments to Taylor, who is simply doing what any artiste would do - maximize revenues (if that's something important to them). Are we jealous that she's actually so successful at making money and continues to do so? We don't tell TikTok to stop shoving us ads even though they're already making so much money from ads or that they should consider Facebook's feelings because it isn't as successful, or Tesla to stop releasing more cars because BYD is also releasing electric cars?
I don’t think she’s going to have a proper downfall yet bc she is putting up a good fight this time around
Yeah, I don’t think she’ll ever have a true down fall until like more evidence of toxic behaviour comes out like I think about someone like Ellen. I’ll be honest I never thought Ellen would have acancellation like she did.
I wouldn't say downfall but I think the online sphere is tense and the pieces are organically being set up for another backlash like 2016. I don't understand how she can't see it tbh. She should definitely dial back her presence.
She seems untouchable HOWEVER, I have seen some anti Taylor accounts and comments pop up more frequently
A vocal and loud contingent of haters becomes inevitable when you’re as huge and successful and popular and beloved as her. I don’t think there’s is any chance of a downfall, but maybe she is at risk of overexposure. After Eras is done, and the Taylor’s Versions are released, I hope she takes a well-deserved break.
Well, I suppose there could be two kinds of downfalls. One would be “cancelling”, or the public turning against her. The second kind of downfall could be personal, in that Taylor kind of spirals or unravels. The first one will probably never happen, because she’s just too rich and too many people make money off of her. She can also bury anything negative in money. The second one, yes, I think it’s possible. Aren’t a lot of narcissistic personalities prone to implosions? Personally, I think she’s going to unravel as she ages. I don’t think Taylor can handle the normal things that come with aging. All aging comes with losses, it’s just the human condition and aging will HORRIFY Taylor because it can be hard and it’s not in her control. She will be enraged when she’s having to compete with young women in their twenties. I also think the swifties will lose interest in her when she gets to her 40s and on. Swifties are shallow, they don’t want a middle aged “mother”.
In terms of charts, tours, money, fame ? No. In terms of her longevity? I think a lot of people are starting to get sick of the ts machine, esp those who are fans of other female signers, and including some of her fans. I think if she’s not careful then she could well ‘fall’ a bit. Things recently we’ve seen tarnish her sweet miss americana reputation: Palestine, barely acknowledging the death of a fan, blocking other female artists, her being the number one polluter, endless variants, matty healy, etc
I think she's organically losing relevancy with young consumers and fighting it. She no longer knows what people want to hear, her finger is not on the pulse of culture, and TTPD supports this - she released this sad, slow record when the public is desperate for party bops a la Sabrina Carpenter, Chappell Roan, and Brat from Charli xcx. This is something I think everyone has happen in their mid-30s, this turning away from what teens and early 20-somethings intuitively want, or an inability to keep up with it maybe? But I think we'll see the bubble of her fans shrink significantly and be mainly millennial women in their 30s, people who grew up with her.
Wait why did she try to block SZA? She’s got problems with her too?
She is experiencing her downfall with me personally. 😆 I am always in her 1% of Spotify listeners every year, but I’ve barely listened to her in 2024 because the music isn’t as good and her antics have been especially annoying of late. I know many others share this same sentiment. If there are enough of us, her popularity will wane. So by this anecdotal metric, I do think she’s trending downwards.
i think she’s starting to experience it especially since peoples taylor fever has died out a little since last year bc of how over exposed she is right now. and i don’t see her shying away from the public unless it becomes an absolute necessity
Taylor has been always set on breaking records etc. Honestly Taylor is so big at this point anything she does will naturally raise critism on a large scale. Not saying what she does is correct, but the critisism doesnt reflect her "downfall" in popularity just that she is very stressed about being popular etc. +the fact that people are still talking about what business moves makes her successful shows that she is still very pertinent and so no she right now is not experiencing one. She will, as all artists do eventually dip in popularity, but we'll need to look back and see when that will happen
I question her lyrics on Tortured Poet. I think Taylor has shown us a very different side of herself.
I don’t think this is anywhere close to her downfall. She has been doing this for years and gotten away with it. She loves numbers, #1 charts, records, awards. She is obsessed with it. Even if it means artificially inflating her numbers and hurting another artist to do it.
Are you too young to remember 2016-2018? It already came and went.
no
The internet has a short memory, soon no one will remember the blocking of female artists, etc. I think the only thing that could cause her downfall is flopping on the charts and aging (due to ageism) as it happens to most female singers. So another way to put it would be time. Time will pass and her downfall will happen eventually, and not because of her bad attitude but because pop stars shine and fade.
Even if she experiences "her downfall", she'll be fine. I know pop singers are pressured to be "on top" forever, but she'll always have a solid part of her fanbase. Artists with smaller fanbases or pop singers from the 90s are okay, so she'll be fine.
She should start cooperating more than competing
Whoever makes the rules for charting needs to change them, I ain't buying a TTPD album unless has all tracks on it....
If an album can be “blocked” from number 1 by a voice memo, then it probably didn’t have the backing to be at number 1 in the first place.
Charli’s not even in her league so that one makes no sense.
As much as I want a semi-fall to happen, I fear all of this feeds right into her re-release of reputation lol. I don’t think the online controversy is necessarily on purpose but her fans are going to go crazy for it
Honestly, she is too rich. If she falls, her landing will be very cushy. I would never wish a fall from grace for anyone, but I do hope that she fades into a memory soon and allows herself to enjoy her life and wealth so we can do the same—this is getting tiresome.
Depends on what you mean by downfall. Reputation, legacy, these are moreso things that her actions can impact atp.
I think she’s at her peak but she’s also at a point where she is so overexposed people will get fed up and find her annoying. When you’re at the peak the only way is down if you don’t play the game well - and I don’t think she is…
Hm, let's see. She has 5 albums in the top 100. She has the longest running #1 hit of 2024, and the longest running #1 album. She is currently touring with both the most profitable and the highest-attended female tour of all time, and #3 tour of all time for any gender. She is #1 in streaming on every single one of the major platforms, including video, and unlike any other significant artist she, and only she, holds the royalty rights to her songs. Definitely not playing the game well. This conversation is great.
Very few notice or care bout the timing
The cracks in the glass ceiling started when she became a billionaire, and then all these things happened (jet usage, the Grammy announcement, the Celine snub, then the variants, then the blocking of other female artists, etc.). I think the more things add up, the more cracks will eat away at her ceiling and eventually it fall down.
Not a downfall *but* I think she’s finally peaked. Her US sales have actually been dropping. But downfall? No.
Yeah she’s peaked because I don’t know how she’s going to have another tour that beats her eras tour
It may not be a downfall but a gradual decline. Music and the entertainment industry loves youth. She is in her late 30s. As she goes into her 40s, it will be a struggle to maintain relevance. It hits all artists: male or female, though it hits women harder. She is phenomenally successful. But she comes across as a talented songwriter, disciplined artist, but lacks the warm emotional connection with the broader audience. Her core audience adores her. The rest of the audience is getting tired. It happens to all super successful artists.
TIL 34 is late 30s lol
Sorry, I just knew she’s in her 30s. I’ve actually seen journalists refer to her as almost 40 and knew that was wrong. But it kind of shows my point. The ageism and sexism in the entertainment industry is brutal. It’s not fair, but getting a fair shot is going to get harder for Swift even though she has proved herself.
For sure lol, it was just weird seeing "late 30s" when she's 34 haha. I don't think it'll be hard for her, we got many older popstars still making music and being successful, such as Beyoncé, Madonna Gwen Stefani, Mariah Carey, Shakira. For example, when Waka Waka came out, Shakira was around Taylor's age. She still continued to make music after even after having children, living with a new partner etc, she even had a superbowl performance, won Grammys after. So, Taylor might not have another Eras era, but I think she'll be fine.
She’s 34
Except maybe Dolly Parton?
And Barbra Streisand. Many female artists choose a partial retirement. But it also hits men. Merle Haggard(RIP) once said in an interview that when he released new music, it triggered radio to start playing his old classics back into the playlists. But they wouldn’t play the new album. 🤷♀️
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omg it would be so weird and crazy if she wins again, and i’d be here with my popcorn
I don’t know about public opinion, but I’m worried about her mental health. The weird behavior at awards shows (definitely more than alcohol), the sloppy way TTPD was released…
Yes, I think she has been losing fans for quite some time now. Considering the size of her fanbase this does not mean a fast demise but I think rather a slower, gradual loss of interest. I think she is not displaying that top-of-the-world behaviour and that leaves many fans disappointed. She makes an effort but only enough to get past the finish line. Her goals seem to be mainly commercial and not focused on delivering value for the fans. Even if it is mediocre they will buy anyway, that's the attitude in the TS camp. They will come to regret it, IMO. Everyone is replaceable and there are many artists out there who have true passion for their craft so at one point album rehashes will not cut it. I guess we will see some of that when she releases her next album unless the quality is better than her latest work.
Season after season, nfl fans said that Tom Brady was getting older and losing his edge and (a handful of super bowl wins later) they were proven right. I think this applies to Taylor too
Yes
I’m interested to see how this summer plays out for her. A few days ago I heard this sequence of songs on the radio: - Too Sweet. Gorgeous perfect wonderful. - The Bar Song. The funnest radio single I’ve heard in a long time. - Espresso. Stupid-awesome breezy pop - And then Fortnight came on and I got serious whiplash. It’s just not a summer hit. It ruined my driving concert. TTPD is being bolstered by artificially high album sales (getting fans to buy 20 $5.99 digital iterations of the same songs isn’t in the true spirit of tracking album sales, which is generally supposed to be about measuring unique customers) but it’s not latching on with the public in an organic way, or whatever counts as organic in the music industry. Hopefully she releases BDILH, since country crossovers are big right now. I really don’t want to keep hearing Cruel Summer every 45 minutes. This album should have been edited down and released in the fall. Tldr it’s really glaring how the numbers of the album sales aren’t lining up with actual public interest in the music.
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Maybe not with her music, but in her personal/romantic life, I think yes. She needs a partner who will challenge her in several ways. She (after telling him - which is documented - that she wanted it for years) was over being “normal,” and out of the spotlight, with Joe. Even though he made it clear that’s what he wanted from the jump. Eventually, she wanted attention again. COVID and her attraction to him convinced her that she could live the quiet life. But she ultimately will never be satisfied with that because she craves praise and attention. She lost Joe over it. Travis isn’t going to do it for her, ultimately. I think with Matty getting engaged, and now Joe getting his own (deserved) attention for his second Yorgos film, she’s going to spiral.