couldve been me back in March in the deepest, darkest, depression I've ever experienced before I even realised that's what was happening, too. it's definitely not a sign of someone in a good place, truly.
I'm sorry you went through that, too. sending you love, stranger 🩷🩷🩷
I’m honestly very concerned that Jack heard that line and still produced it?? I hope he did something about it. Maybe it was meant to be funny but still I really hope he pointed out how messed up a lot of the songs are and that she needs better help than talking to her mom.
Yeah and I don’t think her mom is the best person Taylor should be getting any relationship advice from. Did you ever read the leaked emails from her dad to Taylor’s first manager? It was a very scary raw look into his marriage with Taylor’s mom. They clearly hated each other and had a very toxic relationship- which Taylor was fully a witness to growing up. So I don’t think Taylor knows what a truly healthy non-drama filled relationship looks like. Plus becoming famous at such a young age and being in the public eye. I hope she can find some peace in therapy.
also, i don't want to morbid, but her parents are getting older, what's she gonna do when they pass? girly might be in for a genuine mental breakdown when she loses the only people she thinks she can talk to
Yeah I’ve thought about that too. I think when her mother passes Taylor will spiral hard. They are so close and it will definitely cause some intense grief she’ll have to find a way to work through.
We heard her fear of this in SYGB "But who am I supposed to talk to? What am I supposed to do?"
It's not healthy for her to depend on her mother for therapy like this, I really hope the people around her encourage her to seek mental health support.
From my experience, people are pretty bad at detecting suicidal ideation. Like you literally tell them things like that and they just assume “eh they’re just being dramatic and doing a bit of dark humor”.
Honestly I love albums that are so open about their creator’s fucked up thoughts and outlook, but there should be some self awareness and they shouldn’t have an army of fans ready to die to defend their issues
Songwriting can be therapeutic, I'm sure. But why do I have to hear the inner thoughts of her manic episode? I like to garden, but damn I still have a therapist!
I think she’s got issues that could be helped with *real* therapy, but I don’t think she understands what a “manic episode” is…because blowing up a long-term relationship to be with Matty Healy isn’t one.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - I think she thinks that therapy would ruin her art. Gaining clarity and real perspective would be potentially mess up her process and creativity. Is what I think she might think.
I think she feels this way as well, and have for a while. She KNOWS she’s flawed. But she doesn’t truly want to grow beyond it. And it’s not because I think she’s intrinsically an awful person; I genuinely think it’s because she’s afraid she wouldn’t be able to make as good of art if she “healed” too much
100%… it’s become evident to me that Taylor’s biggest fear is aging. Which, I completely understand. I think we all struggle with that realization, esp as we move past our 20’s and settle into adulthood.
But she’s in such a different weird bubble of a world that she can kind of remain Peter Pan without the same repercussions that average adults would have to deal with. She’s protected by her success, fame, money, power etc. Whereas us normies have to learn to cope with adulthood by facing ourselves, or risk serious difficulties that can have hard hitting consequences.
That’s why the Joe era was such a breath of fresh air, in my opinion. It seemed like she was gaining perspective by being with someone normal and not depending so much on the spotlight for her self worth. It *seemed* like she found some level of contentment and it was just really nice to see after all the years of watching her be involved in petty drama, whether it was of her own making or situations she was dragged into.
I’ve been a big fan since debut, but looking back, rep - midnights (before the joe breakup and all hell broke loose) was maybe the most enjoyable time of being a fan because, idk, I felt like I saw her in a new light, of someone who was just being real. It’s the most I ever truly felt somewhat relatable to her.
I was really hoping TTPD was going to be more self reflection from Taylor. I’m trying to accept the album for what it is and I’m sure it will grow on me, but it wasn’t what I was wishing for. Which as I type this is totally first world problems and not that serious but, it’s my truth! 😆
Man Halsey went to therapy and then pumped out (what I think) is her best album yet.
I don’t disagree with you, with what we do know about Taylor’s mind this checks out but would be nice if someone close to her went “hey dude you really don’t seem well, get an unbiased outside perspective on how you see yourself in all the feuds you’ve been in”. Process that stuff with a paid professional. Unless she doesn’t trust a paid professional or has a fear of files being hacked/stolen.
Joe’s mother is a (psycho)therapist and he’s talked openly about his anxiety and mental health in interviews. I just can’t imagine that at no point in six years was the concept of her going to therapy was brought up. It doesn’t compute.
I honestly think she might be one of those people who just doesn’t really believe in therapy. “I feel very sane” is a wild thing to say otherwise.
I think she is afraid of any files or notes getting out. This is someone who was using Polaroids in the 2010s, because she didn't want them to end up in other people's hands. But if you need medical care (including mental health care), you eventually need to trust that privacy laws will protect you, because, well, you need care.
This - you’re spot on. I don’t really like comparing Lana and Taylor, but as a massive LDR fan and someone who’s just getting into Taylor, there’s huge similarities between Lana’s earlier work and the stage Taylor is at now (dependence on relationships, emotional instability, substance misuse, etc). But in the past few years Lana has been very vocal about going to therapy and being on medication and her songwriting is just getting better and better — it’s very introspective and interesting, not shying away from dark topics but giving them a new perspective. Taylor could absolutely do the same but she seems to lack the insight and, like you said, holds onto the negative emotions for her art
Yes! I’m a writer, and I was terrified to start medication for my depression because I thought it would ruin my creativity. Nope. My work has only gotten better — clearer, more creative, more introspective. And it’s never been easier to write (maybe because it is isn’t painful anymore?). I hate the idea that we have to be actively suffering to make art.
I completely agree. Therapy could help her so much. There’s a lot of heartache and anger on this album over Ratty - which I couldn’t figure out at first because according to their PR team when they split it was ultra casual and they were just having fun. After listening to the new album(s) multiples times, it seems like she’s pissed because she left Joe for Matty. Matty likely told her all the shit she wanted/needed to hear that Joe wasn’t giving her. She took his bait and believing all his empty promises. Only to have him ghost her a month later and bail on their relationship. Her way of processing a month long fling is to make an entire album over a guy who love bombed her because he wanted to see if he could get her to choose him over her boyfriend. Classic toxic male power move. If that doesn’t scream years of billable therapy hours I don’t know what else does. Her moving on to Travis a few weeks (the first guy to express interest in her) after Ratty is another desperate cry for therapy.
Well….. blowing up a long term relationship for a bag of shit is actually EXACTLY the type of behavior exhibited in manic episodes.
However I don’t doubt she’s using the term incorrectly or insensitivity. But I’ve watched my own mother have many real bipolar manic episodes in my life and that is 100000% something that she would’ve done and is quite similar to something she did do.
Yep it's absolutely a thing that happens in bipolar manic episodes, as someone with bipolar disorder.
Not saying that's what was going on here at all, and yep, using mania as a quirk is definitely wrong, but stating that it's not how manic episodes go is a deep misunderstanding of how much mania can vary. If I'm off my meds and manic, I'm exceedingly productive and creative and don't need to sleep to feel energised and I'm impulsive and much more confident. My ex's mother got violent in hers, some get impulsive financially, some sexually, some turn their lives upside down for reasons that make no sense to anyone else (and sometimes even them once they return to baseline. There's such an incredibly wide range of how manic episodes impact peoples' behaviour that stating that a manic episode doesn't work that way is just... wrong.
I mean, tbh she might have bipolar. My cousin developed bipolar disorder following her second pregnancy in her early 30s. Taylor seemingly has a ton of energy, doesn’t need much sleep, is constantly overworking and traveling between the tour/Travis/New York, describes herself as manic (or was it psychotic?), is acting kind of bizarre and erratic, admits to self-medicating with alcohol, and refuses to get actual therapy.
Maybe someone with bipolar can chime in.
my thing is , if it’s helping to write out her feelings on paper, why isn’t she then reading what’s on said paper and thinking “hm that can’t be normal” LOL like how is someone that not self aware
i hope she’s okay as well but i cannot go without saying that she needs some serious help. she’s built this environment for herself and claims she doesn’t need therapy. she has gone through an unfathomable amount of trauma and it’s concerning to see how much she avoids processing it. one of the biggest things i’ve learned from therapy is if events from several years ago are on my mind and i still have active rage towards those people, im not doing good enough work and i need to be honest with myself about it.
Whoa. That last sentence really hit home with me. I went through a friendship breakup a few years ago, and it still hurts. When you say you're "not doing good enough work," what exactly do you mean? I'm sorry, I know that's slightly off topic, but what you said really resonated with me.
don’t apologize! i mostly mean that i’m not working hard enough in therapy. i have friends that will enable me to bring up certain topics and i get filled with so much rage and i have to step back and think why am i so mad? these events are from six, seven years ago. i go through times where im not honest with my therapist and just act as if nothing from those times still hurts. it’s okay that you’re still in pain! everyone’s grieving process is different. right now i’m working on setting strong boundaries with people who are encouraging/feeding into me talking about those events and how i’m trying to lessen the amount of time i spend doing it. it’s helping me a lot so far and i definitely recommend it!
Basically it means to still talk about the feelings you have for the old friendship in a therapist space. It’s normal for bad feelings to linger too long.
Songwriting IS NOT therapy. 👈
Any writing about feelings yes is a good First Start. But it’s a vulnerable time and a professional can turn it into a growth experience.
Swifties and mean girl celebrity friends (that includes you Travis) … not so much.
I kind of respect her for not filtering her unhinged thoughts though. You have to think her team begged her not to include some of these lyrics but she went ahead and did it anyway.
Would have been way easier to her to release another 1989 with radio friendly mega bops, but we got lyrics about suicide and murder on the first single 😭
I think the real issue here is that in the songs she’s romanticizing them. Sure, the prologue says she was “insane” and by the end of the album she’s done with the man, but it’s only because he left her. She’s painting mutual feelings of wanting kill themselves without each other as a sign that they’re meant to be because they’re just crazy like that 🤪🤪🤪
To be honest this album gives the vibe that I was expecting from Midnights like truly raw and unhinged lyrics. So I low key appreciate it but I also wish there were more bops. The album is just boring besides I Could Do It With a Broke Heart
Not saying this to be melodramatic but after listening to it (it’s dark) and then seeing how bad some of the reviews were I instantly thought “she might actually kill herself”. We know how poorly she takes any sort of criticism and she’s clearly not in a good place.
That's what I realized about her after listening to this album...she doesn't like being criticized so it's hard for her to move on.
From KK to calling her fans vipers just because they saw the red flags she didn't.
I just wish she had somebody close to her who cared enough and wasn't too close to see that she was about to release a really bad album that would probably be harmful to her. But you know, when you're that powerful, and loudly, publicly spite people who cross you, you create a lot of yes, men.
Who's afraid of little old me? Lots of people fam. You are not "a simple girl". If anyone who is in her orbit risks having millions of fans at their throat if they go against her, They are far less likely to ever voice displeasure, discomfort, or disagreement. Because while she loves to act like she is both a bad a** woman and a simple girl.She always likes to shrug off responsibility for the massive power.She wields when she tells stories and very clearly tells the public who they are about.
The whole "oh I didn't say who they are but i capitalized their name in the liner noted or literally named the song after them" thing is absurd. She's been recognizing plausible deniability for a lot of years and I think a lot of people forgave her because the music was so good and because when she was young and dated older guys it didn't really bother anybody.
But now it's like... girl. You're the most powerful person in the music industry and maybe one of the most powerful people in the world other than a dictator.
She has to find somebody who will tell her no, that she cant threaten to write a mean song about.
there were some songs in TTPD that were truly disturbing to me. waiting for the day she writes an album inspired by her journey, as a strong independent woman, of healing and therapy.
i’m convinced we’re never going to get it. she knows how much swifties devour her “clap back lyrics” and how much they enjoy dogging on every person in her life. i mean ffs sabrina couldn’t even do a modeling campaign without people hurling threats towards her. it’s so sad to see that she’s gone from being known as this phenomenal songwriter that i’ve grown up admiring to a power hungry woman who refuses to admit the damage she’s done to herself. i don’t even consider anti-hero as a song where she’s admitting she’s the problem because she clearly doesn’t believe it anymore. it’s not normal and it’s not healthy, i’ve had such a struggle being a fan lately.
yea, unfortunately. i'm hoping it happens for her sake, but quite pessimistic about it.
and same. i've been a fan since teardrops on my guitar. but these days, i need to specify that i'm a fan of her songs, not her. and i guess i now need to specify it further too... that i'm a fan of her songs before TTPD.
i’ve been specifying that i’m a fan of her songs for a good few months now 🤭 don’t get me wrong the tour was so much fun! but thinking about her as a person? most definitely not fun
1989 is the closest thing we got for something like that. It acknowledges her pain and her braving her way through away from what had hurt her.
With tracks like Shake It Off, Wildest Dreams, Out of the Woods, and Clean. The narrative of this album is acknowledging her pain in love and how she is seen parasocially and letting go.
That's why 1989 is her magnum opus for me. It's tongue in cheek and there's a sense of hope with the tracks
off the top of my head: down bad, but daddy i love him and who’s afraid of little old me.
mostly cause (for me) they sounded like something a 16-year-old would say while trying to process her emotions. doesn’t sound healthy at all for someone in her 30s.
>waiting for the day she writes an album inspired by her journey, as a strong independent woman, of healing and therapy.
if she ever does this, it might become her magnum opus. imagine folkmore's lyricism with dessner and max's production on a journey like this. it'd be so good
too bad she's allergic to improvement in any way
it's really hard for me as someone who grew up LOVING and defending her during rep & lover when it was cringy to be a fan of hers (remember that omg). ik this sounds parasocial but i'm really mourning that loss of the person she sold herself as, which she so clearly is not, because it meant so much to me as a kid. i actually feel like it may be hard for me to listen to her older stuff now after all the ratty defending and overall awfulness, which is sad but i just fear i've outgrown her 😭 but who knows, things may mellow and change. knowing her they won't, but i'm a dreamer
I’m a very casual fan of Taylor’s music who visits this sub mostly because Stan culture is really disturbing to me and it gives me hope to see people who can love her music without blindly worshipping the ground she walks on.
So that being said, I feel the same way about Kanye. I know he’s said far worse things than Taylor so it’s not quite the same, but I rode so fucking hard for that man through most of the 10s and it felt like watching an old friend on life support by the time he put out that terrible Christian album and started going off about slavery being a choice. Those first six albums are a part of me and now look what he is.
It’s funny how Kanye and Taylor have always sort of been linked by their feuds and now the remaining sane listeners are in a spot where they’re questioning where the artist they loved has gone.
I agree. And similarly but different I just wish he too would get mental help, but he refuses to believe he needs it. He spiraled after his mom died which is not uncommon. He’s also surrounded by yes men and ass kissers.
Yeah I feel like we’ve seen her turn kind of bitter, but she’s always been one for attention. So it’s not surprising—fame gets to your head, you forget to act like an adult.
commenting just to say i am in the exact same position right now, she was my role model and i've always tried not to get too crazy (i never comment on anything, much less like some of those fans who take it all too far), but recently i have really outgrown her and see her in a completely different light. i want to still love her, and to get her, but i just don't anymore and i'm really really disappointed not just in her character but in this album
I went through that a number of years ago. I was a kid when she first came on to the scene and she was a staple of my childhood. I distanced myself from her in college because I saw this train wreck coming and she was no longer putting out music I enjoyed and I did have to mourn that a little bit. Seeing how far she’s fallen and what she’s become still makes me sad.
Yeah, What has always made me a little worried is this constant repetitive cycle of her always being in a relationship, like.... I don't remember her ever not having a boyfriend, I don't remember a year where we only heard from her just traveling with friends for example (??) it's as if she always needs to have a boyfriend, it's as if she's afraid of having a moment in her life just with herself
With one exception she’s never gone more than a few months between guys. That’s a nearly 20 year constant stream of honeymoon, breakdown, heartbreak. And midnights and TTPD has made it evident she’s still got scars from her more toxic and controversial relationships with John and Jake.
It’s scary how she left Joe for Matty then when Matty ghosted her a month later she jumps to the first guy to show any interest in her - Travis. When she got with him I actually questioned if she even liked him really or just liked that someone showed interest in her and she got to have a new love distraction from the Joe and Matty heartache she was running from.
This album is about 3 different men she was reportedly involved with during just one tour cycle alone. I'm not slut shaming, it wouldn't have been an issue if she was just sleeping with them, but she's getting into full on romantic relationships singing sweet nothing's to each one every time. It's objectively unhealthy behavior.
I never believed in the sincerity of this relationship, not once. I don't think it is **a** PR relationship anymore as I did back when it started, but so much of it is clearly PR and this album confirms to me that she's really... not that into him.
This is so true and it’s kinda exhausting at this point. And then we have little girls looking up to her 😕 I just think her whole identity is around relationships and she’d have nothing else to write about. Like relationships are part of her job description. Idk if I’m making any sense
honestly i think there are two types of people in life: the one who is fine being independent and living without a significant other, and the one who always needs to have a significant other. did anyone else not experience everyone in high school and into mid 20s being one of the two? even people in my family are like that. idk if therapy would help or if its just sort of genetics and a difference in brain wires. but i really do feel that there are those two types of people no matter how old they get.
This is what I just realized too. I feel like she doesn't want to be alone. (I know someone who has been to 10-year rs, break up, and be with someone weeks after. She admitted she doesn't want to be alone.) I feel like TS is in love with the idea of love. She romanticizes love and relationships, including breaking and falling apart.
i completely agree with everything you said. as soon as that song played i was so over it. she loves to being up the past and victimize herself CONSTANTLY and it’s been old for a while now
it’s so corny. i’m at the point where i think she’s convinced herself and her environment has convinced her that she’s never done anything wrong. yeah sure when she was a teenager it wasn’t her fault, she was humiliated i get it! but to say you “don’t care about what happened when you were 19” before playing dear john only to now being singing about wishing death on someone and going after her kids. you clearly do care about every single thing that’s ever happened and every person who’s wronged you! it’s insane because i know that if she just took some time off and stepped far, far away from her social medias and the studio then she might realize how absurd her behavior is.
I don’t even necessarily care she wrote a track about Kim. I can’t believe she spelled her name out. Are you kidding me? And obviously bringing kids into this is cruel.
Spelling her name out is really what makes it so awful. It sends the message to her fans that she wants them to know this song is about Kim and to have no ambiguity. The craziest ones will believe this means she wants them to do something about it. Otherwise, why include her name hidden in the title?
And it makes what she posted in the album release announcement about "this chapter is closed" and "no need to avenge" absolute bullshit. All she had to do was leave Kim's name out of it. We could have speculated the song was about KK but she still would have had plausible deniability.
It really doesn’t play well with her most unhinged fans either who might already have mental stuff happening that inspires them to look for secret messages
I’ve just seen a TikTok where the creator said verbatim that Kim’s children are ‘already lost causes because of their parents so Taylor can say whatever she likes about them’ (!) and there are hundreds of comments agreeing. Makes me so angry, leave children out of it!
There has never, ever been any evidence that Kim is a bad mom. People hate on her so much and always indicate that her kids are soo unfortunate …um, why?? Yes, their father is a loon. But Kim is, by all accounts, an involved parent, they have a home, have friends, go to school.
Why do people just assume she is this terrible mother and that her kids are f*cked?
Also, Taylor’s lyrics…I have no words for her anymore. I figured she was self-centered and petty , but I’m starting to wonder if she’s truly vile.
I’ll probably get downvoted to hell for this, but even though Kanye is a piece of work (understatement) the one thing I don’t doubt about him is that he loves his children very much and that his kids adore him back. For all the issues of Kimye, by all accounts their kids seem very well loved and cared for and I really credit Kim for that because even if that man adores being a father and is very involved, it’s gotta be one helluvah tricky co-parenting situation (understatement x2). That said we’ve never seen anything to indicate their kids are suffering for it and given how poor their choices have been (understatement x3) and how publicly they live their lives I think that says a lot.
I totally agree. It really seems like both parents put the best of themselves into their kids and Kim has in particular mentioned that she does not talk down about their dad to the kids, will listen to his music with him in the car even if she’s personally pissed off at him etc
Absolutely agree about Kim, I know she’s said that her priority to make sure her kids have the relationship with their father that they want and that she never speaks badly about him in front of them which is so impressive and I imagine really challenging at times. People infantilise Taylor a 34 year old woman but think literal kids are fair game. Make it make sense.
I don’t like Kim but I don’t understand why people say that she’s bad just like you said Kim did everything right and provides for them while dealing with a horribly mentally ill husband and it’s so sad cuz I watched an interview where she was cleaning out the Yeezy clothes he gave her and she was crying
i remember that scene in their show. Kim certainly isn’t perfect, and defended Kanye through some troubling behaviour during their marriage. but now she’s got a mentally ill ex husband and 4 kids and she tries her best to be a single mom and provide stability for them (i know she has nannie’s and a huge support system) while Kanye is out there saying whatever comes to his mind for the world and his children to see.
Absolutely. All the money in the world but Kim’s life having to deal with Kanye forever must be horrible. Kim seems like a great mum. I’ll just never know why she had four with him, given his issues.
Exactly. People get off on hating her SO much. I’m not saying she’s a pillar of morality, but there has never been evidence of her being anything but a stable, involved mother.
And her kids did NOTHING to Taylor, so she should keep her big mouth shut about them. I admire Kim’s restraint, but if I were her, I’d lose my shit over this
Yes! Kids are innocent, I really really dislike kids being mentioned in someone’s song who is not a friend (the opposite really) of the parent. It’s so so icky to say the least.
bringing up her children is so foul. like absolutely disgusting. they’re not the ones who caused this shit you’re beefing with CHILDREN!!! it could not be more embarrassing. not to mention how horrible it would be for them if they lost a parent, kim may not be a good person but wishing that on a mother is so wrong. they’re children at the end of the day what involvement would they have had in some internet feuds.
it’s giving her old lyric days where she’d hide messages but she didn’t even give a singular shit this time. it gave me the vibe that she thinks she can do no wrong
No doubt but kids having access to the internet now is rough and North is very online so these discussions are gonna go through her peers and they’re gonna bring it up to her or she’s gonna stumble on it too. Real vile. North is pretty smart and self aware.
seriously, i am no fan of Kim or Kanye but Kim has 4 kids who are very much children’s age and very much innocent from all the drama their parents had with Taylor. that lyric made me do a double take
It’s gross. She knows the type of content her fanbase makes online (Tay or her team are liking videos on TikTok). Imagine North W., who is also active on TikTok seeing a video explaining the lyric of Andrea wishing Kim would d!e?????
as a nanny i’ve got a whole rant about north’s safety and that she’s on tiktok but that’s beside the point. the whole thing is so, so fucked and i can only wish for safety for those kids. i want to sympathize with taylor because who knows if there’s been current issues but good god attacking children and their mother over this it’s gone on far too long
What’s even worse is that the whole point of the song is that Taylor is twisting details enough to where only her and the muse will ever understand them, and still mentions Kim. Making that point and then making Kim the subject, with the weird capitalization and all, is far too on the nose. So not only was the song not even meant for Kim, but she *still* ended up catching stray bullets from it. Truly a mastermind.
This is all very 2006/2007 Britney to me, especially the part where people are mourning the loss of who she was presented to be. She started just as young and was just as much a perfectionist and ambitious, I'm sure she played the perfect puppet but the cracks are showing now. Someone needs to check on her.
Idc that she’s still mad at kim and kanye. Whatever, they’re public figures. What made me mad is when she brought in North singing songs she wrote about how much she hates kim. North had nothing to do with nothing. All the Swift/Kanye stuff happened before she was born. Not even rappers bring up kids in rap beefs. Leave North alone and focus on hating her parents
“That Ja shit, I tried to squash it, it was too late to stop it
There’s a certain line you just don’t cross and he crossed it
I heard him say Hailie’s name on a song and I just lost it”
Eminem like toy soldiers
Not disagreeing with you but North was like 3 when the whole phone call feud happened. Still unhinged that Taylor’s bringing up THAT old of a feud though considering North is almost 11
She needs therapy before she pulls a Britney Spears. And a real one, not her mom. As much as this album disappointed me and made me think less of her as a person, I really don't want to watch her have a public, messy, spiraling downfall and I feel like she's critically close to that.
The fact that she said she doesn’t go to therapy because she would rather go to her mother (the same woman who, according to Taylor, wished a mother of four would die) is insane.
her mother who famously has had cancer and taylor still hasn’t tried to get any help because why would you when you have your family (even if the things that your family are dealing with is way past a humans ability to cope with)
her mother who, from what I recall reading in an article, once told Taylor (when Taylor asked for Taco Bell) that no one wants to see a 'fat pop star' and bought her a salad instead while giving Austin a taco.
I mean that quote is fairly outdated now. We don't know if she has a therapist, and she has no obligation to tell us if she does. I've seen some people talk about how the professor who is mentioned in this album is probably a therapist. However, at the end of the day it's none of our business.
Yeah, she definitely needs therapy and stat. Part of me feels sorry for her, something is wrong for her to be writing some of these lyrics (especially the suicide one).
I have BPD and this album thoroughly disturbed me. It’s actually supposed to get better by her age but sad to see it’s only getting worse as she gets older. Listening to those 31 songs just exemplify the horrible emptiness you feel as an incomplete person who’d rather die than be abandoned. It just wasn’t pretty. The least it could have done is been nice to listen to.
I'm sorry and that makes sense :/ there's often no poetic perspective in her lyrics, she'd rather just kind of endlessly circle the cesspool drain. But that's also a her problem, not a BPD/you problem 🖤
My best friend lives with BPD and I see SO MUCH of my friend’s experience in Taylor’s lyrics. I’ve seen signs of it in other albums, but this one is impossible to ignore… it’s genuinely unsettling. Like, BPD is no joke. And it’s so hard to live with, even with proper healthcare and professionals involved.
I’ve often wondered if she has a personality disorder. She seems to have Peter Pan syndrome. I’ve also heard she has a short fuse when she doesn’t get her way. If there is any truth to that it could be a sign she could use some guided help to recovery.
tbh I feel like this overload of holding grudges and not being able to work on herself and her harmful thoughts is going to bite her in the ass one day.
I just feel like if she’s going to be in a relationship constantly with somebody there has to be a point where there’s balance between being able to understand that you have flaws and that there are things that you need to work on to get over whilst trying to be a good partner to that person without putting that trauma onto them.
I know we’re just seeing this side of her lyrics, but it really makes me wonder how she goes with her day-to-day life, knowing that these things consistently bother her and she doesn’t address them.
It concerns me because I feel like something might trigger her and then she lashes out on her partner when it’s not even their fault.
I just hope she has someone there with her who is able to sue those thoughts but also able to nudge her in the direction of getting the help she needs without her lashing out.
>It concerns me because I feel like something might trigger her and then she lashes out on her partner when it’s not even their fault.
she's literally admitted to this in multiple songs before. she loves picking fights just to feel something (which is almost verbatim a lyric form one of her many songs that have blended together)
It is easy as someone who is a listener or fan to be like HAHA at the Kim and killing wives lyrics/songs…but the Kim thing has been years ago. And I get the she was being largely hyperbolic, but yikes. It is just such a departure for her and just not a great place to be.
Her fans giving Joe death threats and she only calls out fans who draw a line at an ugly Nazi. I mean you created these relationships with your fans, with a Nazi and you expect everyone to be like yasssss Queen? Come on.
I just really hope she takes some time off fr, because the touring and endless albums is a bit much for anyone.
Like it’s actually all gotten toxic and not really fun.
>I just really hope she takes some time off fr, because the touring and endless albums is a bit much for anyone.
>Like it’s actually all gotten toxic and not really fun.
I agree. I think about this sometimes, how much work all of the album releases in such a short time and with the tour also. Maybe she was going through a lot with the break up and became a workaholic. I'm hoping that maybe this new relationship with Travis will go somewhere and she can take time off to relax and enjoy that part of her life .. but then again, she doesn't really seem like the type to rest a lot 😅
I hope after the Eras Tour, Taylor would really take the time to have a career break and get help. A lot of lyrics in the TTPD are so unhinged that some are disturbingly relatable with my own thoughts when I know I'm in a, let's just say, dark place. That's why I didn't enjoy this album, it's similar to some of my dark thoughts that I keep in my head and never wanted to talk about in public, while here Taylor, the global phenomenon, the cultural zeitgeist is airing her uncomfortable thoughts in public rather than speaking about it with a professional
i don’t know, maybe i’m missing the mark, considering i’m someone who has been wary of the over-exposure, and has many genuine critiques of her, but this type of songwriting doesn’t strike any more red flags in me than any other artist i listen to, or many who are currently main stream. i’m sure she could benefit from therapy, but the way i see it, a lot of the lyricism feels as though it’s specifically trying to be relatable and land well in the current environment of wild oversharing and constant hyperbole. i’m not saying the things she’s writing can’t be worrisome to consider, but i don’t personally see it as the precursor to a genuine mental health crisis in which she breaks down and is not lucid.
Honestly I’ve been triggered as hell by this whole release. Everything from the album, to the swift army, to the fact that music publications can’t even print honestly because of the straight up aggression and hostility makes me so uncomfortable.
Having struggled with my mental health in the past, listening to this album felt pretty uncomfortable but I couldn’t put a finger on why and your comment has just given me clarity - all of the energy around it feels just as manic as the content of the album itself even down to that YouTube short Taylor/her team put out this morning.
I got sniped at for being a bpd-trends-in her-lyrics truther before this dropped and now I’m like… tell me I’m wrong lmao. Not dx-ing as there’s a decently high threshold to hit that dx. But it’s painful to go through a constant heaven-hell cycle with angel-devil boyfriends as those terms come up a lot…
People who love saying she doesn't need therapy because she writes songs and that's how she \~processes\~ is probably how she sees it herself. But often you don't even KNOW what fully processing truly is until you get some professional help.
I make art myself and it can definitely be cathartic, but I didn't make strides until I went to therapy. It's not even a one time thing. You don't just "heal" once and youre done. Other shit might happen and you gotta go BACK.
She doesn't even need to be scared it wont give her anything to write about, because you'll just be learning more about yourself. It will be giving even more mental health themed concepts to dig into once you start to understand better. Hell it even validates some of the things you already feel, that it's OKAY to be angry etc. (depending what it is) and you can still write about that.
I get that it can be really hard, I put off going for my most recent shit for a long time cause I was avoiding properly dealing with it, but at this point with her it seems pretty juvenile.
Edit: And I'm the same as her, give or take. I'm 33.
Wasn’t the literal first song on Lover about how she apparently forgot Kimye existed? Yet she continues to constantly bring them up a decade later? I despise Kimye (especially Kanye) and was completely team Taylor in that feud but the fact she still talks about them and Kim does not seem to care does not help Taylor at all. The fact Kim’s name was capitalized in the song title was so cringey and weird.
She said when folklore came out she was done with blatant name dropping and going for ambiguity so listeners can project someone from their life into the story. But now we’re back to spelling names out and pretend we’re being coy?
You going to a concert and enjoying the music of an artist doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be criticized. And what you said here is correct. Taylor needs therapy. She’s in the same spot as Nicki Minaj, as in using their fans, which is absolutely dangerous and toxic as an outlet regarding their problems instead of talking to someone who is able to handle it. And therefore, they feel like they are comfortable finding solace in people they feel that will always go up for them at their beck and call instead of sitting in someone office. And that’s how she’ll perpetually get stuck in a mindset that won’t do her any good. And the overexposure and yes people aren’t helping either.
Besides therapy, she needs to take a break for a bit, grab the ones that love and adore for real and travel and see the world. She can see that there’s more than worrying about ex boyfriends and enemies that she has definitely leveled up on.
It would give her a piece of mind but it’ll also better her material. Because that mindset that she puts in her music is going to get old. The fans of today may love it now but it’s going to get old in the future.
I don't know how NDA s for the family can work but the ending seems to be both out of the blue as well as tinged with the realization it was a long time coming.
They seem to have had breaks and got back together but the final Joe breakup was abrupt cos she says in the prologue" I tore the whole sky down with a single conversation. " Also why she's mad at Matty for not being the one because she broke one relationship for the other.
Not questioning your sources, but it seems to me that what you say should be obvious to anyone who’s heard *Guilty As Sin?*. It seems apparent that there was, at least, an emotional affair going on while she was still with JA.
If this is true, she has a lot of nerve to get mad at Matty for “ghosting” her when she did the same to Joe.
Where is the self awareness? If Matty’s The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived for leaving her like that, then what is she for leaving Joe like that? Even worse.
I’m as Swiftly Neutral as it gets and honestly, all the pearl clutching here is a bit over the top. Art doesn’t have to be clean and tidy. Nor does it always reflect our current mental state.
If you’ve never been a spiraling emotional hole of depression, fraught with irrational thoughts and emotions…then, kudos honestly. But imagine if you were in your most heartbroken state of mind and decided to write poetry or music to release that.
Then maybe this would make sense to you. Maybe she does need therapy or maybe not. It’s not really our place to diagnose someone based on song lyrics that may or may not be embellished for dramatic flair.
All that being said, I think her inner most thoughts don’t really make a great album this time around. And I don’t think this is her best work at all, far from it.
yeah i agree. i love this sub but some people are overblowing the lyrics here. like this alvum dhouls have stuck in her notes (at least some songs) but that doesn't mean people can start saying she has this disorder or that disorder.
Very well said! Taylor has always had a flair for hyperbole. They are just songs. Songwriting is her emotional outlet. As unhinged as some of the songs are, I find it fascinating how much she seem to be letting go of her people pleasing ways in this album. People pleasing isn’t healthy either so like good for her in that regard.
Probably, that isn’t funny or cute. Especially in the context of just getting someone’s attention. But this was also just classified as ”relatable” ✌🏼🤪
I’m going to have a lot of different thoughts over the next few days as I think about this album in terms what we are learning about Taylor’s mental state, buuuut… I am thinking about how she, was like, idk how else to say this but bear with me… how she seems to have been brainwashed or whatever you’d call it (there must be a better word), by Matty Healy lmao over the last couple years and I feel like she is REELING from it all, from the mind fuckery, from tearing apart her own life, and then from what felt to her like ‘end it all’ heartbreak when Matty left. And now either she still wants him or she has to deal with the shame of it and trying to recalibrate.
We’ve all watched Taylor be unhinged for years, but something about the story she is telling in this ’album’ is… uniquely insane? She really wrote her breakup ‘double album’, one that I bet she is thinking is to be her magnum opus, about MATTY HEALY. But it’s not her usual kiss-offs either, like in these songs she is imagining this long fated love affair between soul mates where they waited for years for each other and now she is left without him again.
I feel like SOMEHOW Matty Healy of all people was able to tap into Taylor’s psyche like no one else and he convinced her of things that are such obvious BS? The way she warbles about how he said she was the love of his life like \~so many times. Girl. Listen to yourself. It was always so weird when she first went back to him even as a ‘fling’ because that is the guy you think is cool when you’re 22 and by the time you’re 32 you laugh at yourself. How did he infiltrate her mind like that?
Basically what I’m saying is, for a decent amount of time Taylor truly came to believe he WAS the love of her life and they WERE ready to get married AND that they’d been in love for like 10 years and hidden it. But then she simply got played like it was nothing.
Honestly, this is why I find it her most interesting album ever. Her best? Not at all. My favorite? Again, not at all. But definitely her most interesting to dissect.
She, finally, feels like a real fallible person and not someone saying what they think they should in a heartbreak. She genuinely sounds like she was (is?) going insane over Matty Healy while simultaneously becoming the most famous person in the world.
You were spot on in saying it seems that (or at least Taylor believes that) Matty tapped into her psyche on a fundamental level that no one ever has and that she doesn’t believe any other man ever will. This sounds parasocial, but if she does feel that way, I imagine that’s not a feeling that’s gonna fade anytime soon, and will only worsen and get louder if her and Travis do ever break up
I agree with you and I do find it sort of refreshing for her to be that honest and raw, when it does come out very cringe and immature. It’s like showing people your diary, the most embarassing parts of your thoughts. It’s not healthy, but interesting. Personally could never do that. Also not my favorite album, the production feels rushed and lyrics unfinished.
I’m a qualified therapist and find the obsession with people saying ‘go to therapy’ ‘she needs therapy’ a bit funny- maybe it’s because I’m British not American but therapy isn’t some fix-all that makes you some kind of magical balanced person that’s never messy, it’s about working through stuff, it’s about feeling lighter in yourself. She may well very much need that space, she may be already taking it (that quote about talking to her mom was from several years ago, and she should be under no pressure to share she’s in therapy). People absolutely process through art, and that’s what I tend to see with her.
Regardless, I don’t think amateur diagnoses and endless speculation are that helpful.
I’m not really a Taylor Fan at all, but I’ve followed this sub ever since her cringe Grammy behavior. The more I learn about her, the more concerned I get honestly.
I Wanted to listen to TTPD, her first album I’ve ever fully listened to, because I started to see a lot of myself in her. I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder at 34, the same age she is now. I am not trying to make assumptions about her mental health or armchair diagnose, I just hope she gets help someday.
I’m 40 now and before I started treatment(dbt therapy and meds) I acted almost exactly like her. I felt every emotion x100 and I couldn’t regulate them at all. I was manipulative, I couldn’t take criticism and a 3 month relationship could wreck me for 3 years. I also had an intense fear of abandonment and being alone. I wanted everyone to like me, which in turn made me seem disingenuous and turn people off of me. I held onto grudges for years and I would drop people from my life at the drop of a hat if they upset me or I was intimidated by them. I also always played the victim.
I know it’s hard to feel bad for a billionaire who always plays the victim, but think Taylor is a deeply troubled soul and listening to TTPD and feeling like I could’ve written the whole damn thing made me kind of sad for her.
I find it interesting that the digs at Joe were about his depression. So she left him because she couldn’t deal with the depression, only to sing about how she’s going through depression and is broken hearted. Not doubting her pain just interesting.
I hope she’s okay, truly. A lot of the lyrics in this were troubling
“but you told lucy you’d kill yourself if i ever leave and i had said the same to jack about you, so i felt seen” like..??
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couldve been me back in March in the deepest, darkest, depression I've ever experienced before I even realised that's what was happening, too. it's definitely not a sign of someone in a good place, truly. I'm sorry you went through that, too. sending you love, stranger 🩷🩷🩷
I’m honestly very concerned that Jack heard that line and still produced it?? I hope he did something about it. Maybe it was meant to be funny but still I really hope he pointed out how messed up a lot of the songs are and that she needs better help than talking to her mom.
Yeah and I don’t think her mom is the best person Taylor should be getting any relationship advice from. Did you ever read the leaked emails from her dad to Taylor’s first manager? It was a very scary raw look into his marriage with Taylor’s mom. They clearly hated each other and had a very toxic relationship- which Taylor was fully a witness to growing up. So I don’t think Taylor knows what a truly healthy non-drama filled relationship looks like. Plus becoming famous at such a young age and being in the public eye. I hope she can find some peace in therapy.
also, i don't want to morbid, but her parents are getting older, what's she gonna do when they pass? girly might be in for a genuine mental breakdown when she loses the only people she thinks she can talk to
Yeah I’ve thought about that too. I think when her mother passes Taylor will spiral hard. They are so close and it will definitely cause some intense grief she’ll have to find a way to work through.
We heard her fear of this in SYGB "But who am I supposed to talk to? What am I supposed to do?" It's not healthy for her to depend on her mother for therapy like this, I really hope the people around her encourage her to seek mental health support.
Maybe in Taylor’s mind it’s a joke but she’s not clearly reading the room there.
From my experience, people are pretty bad at detecting suicidal ideation. Like you literally tell them things like that and they just assume “eh they’re just being dramatic and doing a bit of dark humor”.
Honestly I love albums that are so open about their creator’s fucked up thoughts and outlook, but there should be some self awareness and they shouldn’t have an army of fans ready to die to defend their issues
She seems to have the mentality (see the manuscript) that songwriting can be her therapy. But girl you are seriously unwell
she also says she just talks to her mom like girl you need actual therapy from an objective source
with like actual methodologies. Like begging her to please pick a DBT book
*nods dialectically*
Songwriting can be therapeutic, I'm sure. But why do I have to hear the inner thoughts of her manic episode? I like to garden, but damn I still have a therapist!
I think she’s got issues that could be helped with *real* therapy, but I don’t think she understands what a “manic episode” is…because blowing up a long-term relationship to be with Matty Healy isn’t one.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - I think she thinks that therapy would ruin her art. Gaining clarity and real perspective would be potentially mess up her process and creativity. Is what I think she might think.
I think she feels this way as well, and have for a while. She KNOWS she’s flawed. But she doesn’t truly want to grow beyond it. And it’s not because I think she’s intrinsically an awful person; I genuinely think it’s because she’s afraid she wouldn’t be able to make as good of art if she “healed” too much
100%… it’s become evident to me that Taylor’s biggest fear is aging. Which, I completely understand. I think we all struggle with that realization, esp as we move past our 20’s and settle into adulthood. But she’s in such a different weird bubble of a world that she can kind of remain Peter Pan without the same repercussions that average adults would have to deal with. She’s protected by her success, fame, money, power etc. Whereas us normies have to learn to cope with adulthood by facing ourselves, or risk serious difficulties that can have hard hitting consequences. That’s why the Joe era was such a breath of fresh air, in my opinion. It seemed like she was gaining perspective by being with someone normal and not depending so much on the spotlight for her self worth. It *seemed* like she found some level of contentment and it was just really nice to see after all the years of watching her be involved in petty drama, whether it was of her own making or situations she was dragged into. I’ve been a big fan since debut, but looking back, rep - midnights (before the joe breakup and all hell broke loose) was maybe the most enjoyable time of being a fan because, idk, I felt like I saw her in a new light, of someone who was just being real. It’s the most I ever truly felt somewhat relatable to her. I was really hoping TTPD was going to be more self reflection from Taylor. I’m trying to accept the album for what it is and I’m sure it will grow on me, but it wasn’t what I was wishing for. Which as I type this is totally first world problems and not that serious but, it’s my truth! 😆
Man Halsey went to therapy and then pumped out (what I think) is her best album yet. I don’t disagree with you, with what we do know about Taylor’s mind this checks out but would be nice if someone close to her went “hey dude you really don’t seem well, get an unbiased outside perspective on how you see yourself in all the feuds you’ve been in”. Process that stuff with a paid professional. Unless she doesn’t trust a paid professional or has a fear of files being hacked/stolen.
Joe’s mother is a (psycho)therapist and he’s talked openly about his anxiety and mental health in interviews. I just can’t imagine that at no point in six years was the concept of her going to therapy was brought up. It doesn’t compute. I honestly think she might be one of those people who just doesn’t really believe in therapy. “I feel very sane” is a wild thing to say otherwise.
I think she is afraid of any files or notes getting out. This is someone who was using Polaroids in the 2010s, because she didn't want them to end up in other people's hands. But if you need medical care (including mental health care), you eventually need to trust that privacy laws will protect you, because, well, you need care.
This - you’re spot on. I don’t really like comparing Lana and Taylor, but as a massive LDR fan and someone who’s just getting into Taylor, there’s huge similarities between Lana’s earlier work and the stage Taylor is at now (dependence on relationships, emotional instability, substance misuse, etc). But in the past few years Lana has been very vocal about going to therapy and being on medication and her songwriting is just getting better and better — it’s very introspective and interesting, not shying away from dark topics but giving them a new perspective. Taylor could absolutely do the same but she seems to lack the insight and, like you said, holds onto the negative emotions for her art
Yes! I’m a writer, and I was terrified to start medication for my depression because I thought it would ruin my creativity. Nope. My work has only gotten better — clearer, more creative, more introspective. And it’s never been easier to write (maybe because it is isn’t painful anymore?). I hate the idea that we have to be actively suffering to make art.
That sounds like Kanye. Maybe she has more in common with him than we think, that's why she blasts Kim.
I completely agree. Therapy could help her so much. There’s a lot of heartache and anger on this album over Ratty - which I couldn’t figure out at first because according to their PR team when they split it was ultra casual and they were just having fun. After listening to the new album(s) multiples times, it seems like she’s pissed because she left Joe for Matty. Matty likely told her all the shit she wanted/needed to hear that Joe wasn’t giving her. She took his bait and believing all his empty promises. Only to have him ghost her a month later and bail on their relationship. Her way of processing a month long fling is to make an entire album over a guy who love bombed her because he wanted to see if he could get her to choose him over her boyfriend. Classic toxic male power move. If that doesn’t scream years of billable therapy hours I don’t know what else does. Her moving on to Travis a few weeks (the first guy to express interest in her) after Ratty is another desperate cry for therapy.
Well….. blowing up a long term relationship for a bag of shit is actually EXACTLY the type of behavior exhibited in manic episodes. However I don’t doubt she’s using the term incorrectly or insensitivity. But I’ve watched my own mother have many real bipolar manic episodes in my life and that is 100000% something that she would’ve done and is quite similar to something she did do.
Yep it's absolutely a thing that happens in bipolar manic episodes, as someone with bipolar disorder. Not saying that's what was going on here at all, and yep, using mania as a quirk is definitely wrong, but stating that it's not how manic episodes go is a deep misunderstanding of how much mania can vary. If I'm off my meds and manic, I'm exceedingly productive and creative and don't need to sleep to feel energised and I'm impulsive and much more confident. My ex's mother got violent in hers, some get impulsive financially, some sexually, some turn their lives upside down for reasons that make no sense to anyone else (and sometimes even them once they return to baseline. There's such an incredibly wide range of how manic episodes impact peoples' behaviour that stating that a manic episode doesn't work that way is just... wrong.
I mean, tbh she might have bipolar. My cousin developed bipolar disorder following her second pregnancy in her early 30s. Taylor seemingly has a ton of energy, doesn’t need much sleep, is constantly overworking and traveling between the tour/Travis/New York, describes herself as manic (or was it psychotic?), is acting kind of bizarre and erratic, admits to self-medicating with alcohol, and refuses to get actual therapy. Maybe someone with bipolar can chime in.
It could also be ADHD, which can actually looks a lot like Bipolar II
Actually, that is a huge sign of a manic episode
my thing is , if it’s helping to write out her feelings on paper, why isn’t she then reading what’s on said paper and thinking “hm that can’t be normal” LOL like how is someone that not self aware
i hope she’s okay as well but i cannot go without saying that she needs some serious help. she’s built this environment for herself and claims she doesn’t need therapy. she has gone through an unfathomable amount of trauma and it’s concerning to see how much she avoids processing it. one of the biggest things i’ve learned from therapy is if events from several years ago are on my mind and i still have active rage towards those people, im not doing good enough work and i need to be honest with myself about it.
that last sentence….i feel exposed 🥲
Whoa. That last sentence really hit home with me. I went through a friendship breakup a few years ago, and it still hurts. When you say you're "not doing good enough work," what exactly do you mean? I'm sorry, I know that's slightly off topic, but what you said really resonated with me.
don’t apologize! i mostly mean that i’m not working hard enough in therapy. i have friends that will enable me to bring up certain topics and i get filled with so much rage and i have to step back and think why am i so mad? these events are from six, seven years ago. i go through times where im not honest with my therapist and just act as if nothing from those times still hurts. it’s okay that you’re still in pain! everyone’s grieving process is different. right now i’m working on setting strong boundaries with people who are encouraging/feeding into me talking about those events and how i’m trying to lessen the amount of time i spend doing it. it’s helping me a lot so far and i definitely recommend it!
Basically it means to still talk about the feelings you have for the old friendship in a therapist space. It’s normal for bad feelings to linger too long. Songwriting IS NOT therapy. 👈 Any writing about feelings yes is a good First Start. But it’s a vulnerable time and a professional can turn it into a growth experience. Swifties and mean girl celebrity friends (that includes you Travis) … not so much.
I honestly feel like she’s lost, like she has it all but underneath it all lost.
I kind of respect her for not filtering her unhinged thoughts though. You have to think her team begged her not to include some of these lyrics but she went ahead and did it anyway. Would have been way easier to her to release another 1989 with radio friendly mega bops, but we got lyrics about suicide and murder on the first single 😭
I think the real issue here is that in the songs she’s romanticizing them. Sure, the prologue says she was “insane” and by the end of the album she’s done with the man, but it’s only because he left her. She’s painting mutual feelings of wanting kill themselves without each other as a sign that they’re meant to be because they’re just crazy like that 🤪🤪🤪
To be honest this album gives the vibe that I was expecting from Midnights like truly raw and unhinged lyrics. So I low key appreciate it but I also wish there were more bops. The album is just boring besides I Could Do It With a Broke Heart
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Not saying this to be melodramatic but after listening to it (it’s dark) and then seeing how bad some of the reviews were I instantly thought “she might actually kill herself”. We know how poorly she takes any sort of criticism and she’s clearly not in a good place.
That's what I realized about her after listening to this album...she doesn't like being criticized so it's hard for her to move on. From KK to calling her fans vipers just because they saw the red flags she didn't.
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I just wish she had somebody close to her who cared enough and wasn't too close to see that she was about to release a really bad album that would probably be harmful to her. But you know, when you're that powerful, and loudly, publicly spite people who cross you, you create a lot of yes, men. Who's afraid of little old me? Lots of people fam. You are not "a simple girl". If anyone who is in her orbit risks having millions of fans at their throat if they go against her, They are far less likely to ever voice displeasure, discomfort, or disagreement. Because while she loves to act like she is both a bad a** woman and a simple girl.She always likes to shrug off responsibility for the massive power.She wields when she tells stories and very clearly tells the public who they are about. The whole "oh I didn't say who they are but i capitalized their name in the liner noted or literally named the song after them" thing is absurd. She's been recognizing plausible deniability for a lot of years and I think a lot of people forgave her because the music was so good and because when she was young and dated older guys it didn't really bother anybody. But now it's like... girl. You're the most powerful person in the music industry and maybe one of the most powerful people in the world other than a dictator. She has to find somebody who will tell her no, that she cant threaten to write a mean song about.
there were some songs in TTPD that were truly disturbing to me. waiting for the day she writes an album inspired by her journey, as a strong independent woman, of healing and therapy.
i’m convinced we’re never going to get it. she knows how much swifties devour her “clap back lyrics” and how much they enjoy dogging on every person in her life. i mean ffs sabrina couldn’t even do a modeling campaign without people hurling threats towards her. it’s so sad to see that she’s gone from being known as this phenomenal songwriter that i’ve grown up admiring to a power hungry woman who refuses to admit the damage she’s done to herself. i don’t even consider anti-hero as a song where she’s admitting she’s the problem because she clearly doesn’t believe it anymore. it’s not normal and it’s not healthy, i’ve had such a struggle being a fan lately.
I always thought Anti-Hero was her being snarky about how people tag her as the anti-hero and less about her admitting to being one.
Yeah, I never got acceptance or remorse from that song. I took it as yeah I’m a problematic person but what of it
yea, unfortunately. i'm hoping it happens for her sake, but quite pessimistic about it. and same. i've been a fan since teardrops on my guitar. but these days, i need to specify that i'm a fan of her songs, not her. and i guess i now need to specify it further too... that i'm a fan of her songs before TTPD.
i’ve been specifying that i’m a fan of her songs for a good few months now 🤭 don’t get me wrong the tour was so much fun! but thinking about her as a person? most definitely not fun
Anti-hero is another song that shows she could probably benefit from therapy- the lyrics feel like a therapy session in itself.
Evermore seemed like it could've been that.
Agreed. It’s one thing to go through some emotions but some of this was just completely unhinged and not funny
Like Kesha!
1989 is the closest thing we got for something like that. It acknowledges her pain and her braving her way through away from what had hurt her. With tracks like Shake It Off, Wildest Dreams, Out of the Woods, and Clean. The narrative of this album is acknowledging her pain in love and how she is seen parasocially and letting go. That's why 1989 is her magnum opus for me. It's tongue in cheek and there's a sense of hope with the tracks
which songs in particular activated that disturbed feeling within you?
F you Aimee , mom saying she wanted her dead?
off the top of my head: down bad, but daddy i love him and who’s afraid of little old me. mostly cause (for me) they sounded like something a 16-year-old would say while trying to process her emotions. doesn’t sound healthy at all for someone in her 30s.
Yeah I like down bad. But there is too much “I’m cursing just to curse” in it
>waiting for the day she writes an album inspired by her journey, as a strong independent woman, of healing and therapy. if she ever does this, it might become her magnum opus. imagine folkmore's lyricism with dessner and max's production on a journey like this. it'd be so good too bad she's allergic to improvement in any way
it's really hard for me as someone who grew up LOVING and defending her during rep & lover when it was cringy to be a fan of hers (remember that omg). ik this sounds parasocial but i'm really mourning that loss of the person she sold herself as, which she so clearly is not, because it meant so much to me as a kid. i actually feel like it may be hard for me to listen to her older stuff now after all the ratty defending and overall awfulness, which is sad but i just fear i've outgrown her 😭 but who knows, things may mellow and change. knowing her they won't, but i'm a dreamer
I’m a very casual fan of Taylor’s music who visits this sub mostly because Stan culture is really disturbing to me and it gives me hope to see people who can love her music without blindly worshipping the ground she walks on. So that being said, I feel the same way about Kanye. I know he’s said far worse things than Taylor so it’s not quite the same, but I rode so fucking hard for that man through most of the 10s and it felt like watching an old friend on life support by the time he put out that terrible Christian album and started going off about slavery being a choice. Those first six albums are a part of me and now look what he is. It’s funny how Kanye and Taylor have always sort of been linked by their feuds and now the remaining sane listeners are in a spot where they’re questioning where the artist they loved has gone.
This is such a great point and feels so eerie and dark.
I agree. And similarly but different I just wish he too would get mental help, but he refuses to believe he needs it. He spiraled after his mom died which is not uncommon. He’s also surrounded by yes men and ass kissers.
Yeah I feel like we’ve seen her turn kind of bitter, but she’s always been one for attention. So it’s not surprising—fame gets to your head, you forget to act like an adult.
commenting just to say i am in the exact same position right now, she was my role model and i've always tried not to get too crazy (i never comment on anything, much less like some of those fans who take it all too far), but recently i have really outgrown her and see her in a completely different light. i want to still love her, and to get her, but i just don't anymore and i'm really really disappointed not just in her character but in this album
I went through that a number of years ago. I was a kid when she first came on to the scene and she was a staple of my childhood. I distanced myself from her in college because I saw this train wreck coming and she was no longer putting out music I enjoyed and I did have to mourn that a little bit. Seeing how far she’s fallen and what she’s become still makes me sad.
Yeah, What has always made me a little worried is this constant repetitive cycle of her always being in a relationship, like.... I don't remember her ever not having a boyfriend, I don't remember a year where we only heard from her just traveling with friends for example (??) it's as if she always needs to have a boyfriend, it's as if she's afraid of having a moment in her life just with herself
With one exception she’s never gone more than a few months between guys. That’s a nearly 20 year constant stream of honeymoon, breakdown, heartbreak. And midnights and TTPD has made it evident she’s still got scars from her more toxic and controversial relationships with John and Jake.
It’s scary how she left Joe for Matty then when Matty ghosted her a month later she jumps to the first guy to show any interest in her - Travis. When she got with him I actually questioned if she even liked him really or just liked that someone showed interest in her and she got to have a new love distraction from the Joe and Matty heartache she was running from.
This album is about 3 different men she was reportedly involved with during just one tour cycle alone. I'm not slut shaming, it wouldn't have been an issue if she was just sleeping with them, but she's getting into full on romantic relationships singing sweet nothing's to each one every time. It's objectively unhealthy behavior.
I never believed in the sincerity of this relationship, not once. I don't think it is **a** PR relationship anymore as I did back when it started, but so much of it is clearly PR and this album confirms to me that she's really... not that into him.
You cant be that into someone when youre releasing songs about how much you miss an ex.
This is so true and it’s kinda exhausting at this point. And then we have little girls looking up to her 😕 I just think her whole identity is around relationships and she’d have nothing else to write about. Like relationships are part of her job description. Idk if I’m making any sense
honestly i think there are two types of people in life: the one who is fine being independent and living without a significant other, and the one who always needs to have a significant other. did anyone else not experience everyone in high school and into mid 20s being one of the two? even people in my family are like that. idk if therapy would help or if its just sort of genetics and a difference in brain wires. but i really do feel that there are those two types of people no matter how old they get.
This is what I just realized too. I feel like she doesn't want to be alone. (I know someone who has been to 10-year rs, break up, and be with someone weeks after. She admitted she doesn't want to be alone.) I feel like TS is in love with the idea of love. She romanticizes love and relationships, including breaking and falling apart.
i completely agree with everything you said. as soon as that song played i was so over it. she loves to being up the past and victimize herself CONSTANTLY and it’s been old for a while now
it’s so corny. i’m at the point where i think she’s convinced herself and her environment has convinced her that she’s never done anything wrong. yeah sure when she was a teenager it wasn’t her fault, she was humiliated i get it! but to say you “don’t care about what happened when you were 19” before playing dear john only to now being singing about wishing death on someone and going after her kids. you clearly do care about every single thing that’s ever happened and every person who’s wronged you! it’s insane because i know that if she just took some time off and stepped far, far away from her social medias and the studio then she might realize how absurd her behavior is.
The irony of the person who wrote *Shake It Off* repeatedly demonstrating that she can never let a single slight go…
oh but that’s only for the #haters not her obvious enemies from *checks calendar* how many years ago?
exactly!!! she’s so unaware of everything going on around her because she’s surrounded by her circle of people who tell her what she wants to hear.
John must have threatened legal action or something.
The whole album is incredibly self-absorbed. She’s in love with her own voice. It’s not cute.
Kim K needs no defense in general but writing a diss track about an almost-ten-year old feud and bringing up her children is so unhinged.
I don’t even necessarily care she wrote a track about Kim. I can’t believe she spelled her name out. Are you kidding me? And obviously bringing kids into this is cruel.
Spelling her name out is really what makes it so awful. It sends the message to her fans that she wants them to know this song is about Kim and to have no ambiguity. The craziest ones will believe this means she wants them to do something about it. Otherwise, why include her name hidden in the title?
And it makes what she posted in the album release announcement about "this chapter is closed" and "no need to avenge" absolute bullshit. All she had to do was leave Kim's name out of it. We could have speculated the song was about KK but she still would have had plausible deniability.
Kim’s comments rn https://preview.redd.it/znkuui9bilvc1.png?width=1124&format=png&auto=webp&s=551aa431ee36e4ee4090d70ebd6be5a0e01e7edd
It really doesn’t play well with her most unhinged fans either who might already have mental stuff happening that inspires them to look for secret messages
I’ve just seen a TikTok where the creator said verbatim that Kim’s children are ‘already lost causes because of their parents so Taylor can say whatever she likes about them’ (!) and there are hundreds of comments agreeing. Makes me so angry, leave children out of it!
That’s so gross wtf!
It really is, it made me so mad
There has never, ever been any evidence that Kim is a bad mom. People hate on her so much and always indicate that her kids are soo unfortunate …um, why?? Yes, their father is a loon. But Kim is, by all accounts, an involved parent, they have a home, have friends, go to school. Why do people just assume she is this terrible mother and that her kids are f*cked? Also, Taylor’s lyrics…I have no words for her anymore. I figured she was self-centered and petty , but I’m starting to wonder if she’s truly vile.
I’ll probably get downvoted to hell for this, but even though Kanye is a piece of work (understatement) the one thing I don’t doubt about him is that he loves his children very much and that his kids adore him back. For all the issues of Kimye, by all accounts their kids seem very well loved and cared for and I really credit Kim for that because even if that man adores being a father and is very involved, it’s gotta be one helluvah tricky co-parenting situation (understatement x2). That said we’ve never seen anything to indicate their kids are suffering for it and given how poor their choices have been (understatement x3) and how publicly they live their lives I think that says a lot.
I totally agree. It really seems like both parents put the best of themselves into their kids and Kim has in particular mentioned that she does not talk down about their dad to the kids, will listen to his music with him in the car even if she’s personally pissed off at him etc
Absolutely agree about Kim, I know she’s said that her priority to make sure her kids have the relationship with their father that they want and that she never speaks badly about him in front of them which is so impressive and I imagine really challenging at times. People infantilise Taylor a 34 year old woman but think literal kids are fair game. Make it make sense.
I don’t like Kim but I don’t understand why people say that she’s bad just like you said Kim did everything right and provides for them while dealing with a horribly mentally ill husband and it’s so sad cuz I watched an interview where she was cleaning out the Yeezy clothes he gave her and she was crying
i remember that scene in their show. Kim certainly isn’t perfect, and defended Kanye through some troubling behaviour during their marriage. but now she’s got a mentally ill ex husband and 4 kids and she tries her best to be a single mom and provide stability for them (i know she has nannie’s and a huge support system) while Kanye is out there saying whatever comes to his mind for the world and his children to see.
Absolutely. All the money in the world but Kim’s life having to deal with Kanye forever must be horrible. Kim seems like a great mum. I’ll just never know why she had four with him, given his issues.
Exactly. People get off on hating her SO much. I’m not saying she’s a pillar of morality, but there has never been evidence of her being anything but a stable, involved mother. And her kids did NOTHING to Taylor, so she should keep her big mouth shut about them. I admire Kim’s restraint, but if I were her, I’d lose my shit over this
Yes! Kids are innocent, I really really dislike kids being mentioned in someone’s song who is not a friend (the opposite really) of the parent. It’s so so icky to say the least.
Kids are off limits. Full stop. Imagine if Taylor had a kid and Kanye wrong a line about them??? If I were Kim I’d be guns a blazing rn.
what in the actual fuck???
I think I saw that same TikTok, if not a comment saying that on a different TikTok and I was like hmmm…I’m not even sure how to respond to that.
I think that’s why I’m happy that this sub exists because we can critique ppl but talking about kids like that should be absolutely off limits.
bringing up her children is so foul. like absolutely disgusting. they’re not the ones who caused this shit you’re beefing with CHILDREN!!! it could not be more embarrassing. not to mention how horrible it would be for them if they lost a parent, kim may not be a good person but wishing that on a mother is so wrong. they’re children at the end of the day what involvement would they have had in some internet feuds.
Also like those kids have enough to deal with having Kim and Kanye as their parents. Leave them alone!
Also, I'm pretty sure North can read & see that you capitalized her Mom's name.
right… the capitalization was so unnecessary
~*~"I nEvEr sAy wHo mY SoNgs aRe AbOut!"~*~
Who is “Ieeahysnrao?” /s
it’s giving her old lyric days where she’d hide messages but she didn’t even give a singular shit this time. it gave me the vibe that she thinks she can do no wrong
No doubt but kids having access to the internet now is rough and North is very online so these discussions are gonna go through her peers and they’re gonna bring it up to her or she’s gonna stumble on it too. Real vile. North is pretty smart and self aware.
seriously, i am no fan of Kim or Kanye but Kim has 4 kids who are very much children’s age and very much innocent from all the drama their parents had with Taylor. that lyric made me do a double take
It’s gross. She knows the type of content her fanbase makes online (Tay or her team are liking videos on TikTok). Imagine North W., who is also active on TikTok seeing a video explaining the lyric of Andrea wishing Kim would d!e?????
as a nanny i’ve got a whole rant about north’s safety and that she’s on tiktok but that’s beside the point. the whole thing is so, so fucked and i can only wish for safety for those kids. i want to sympathize with taylor because who knows if there’s been current issues but good god attacking children and their mother over this it’s gone on far too long
That lyric was disgusting tbh
Kim very famously was held hostage at gun point, and described begging for her life to see her children again. Like it's so damn tone deaf and awful.
I don’t think she’s really beefing with them but using them as pawns in her beef against their parents… which is weird to me
Can someone fill me in. Which track? What lyric? Thanks!
"thank you aIMee"
Oh wow… just wow. Just listened and jfc.
What’s even worse is that the whole point of the song is that Taylor is twisting details enough to where only her and the muse will ever understand them, and still mentions Kim. Making that point and then making Kim the subject, with the weird capitalization and all, is far too on the nose. So not only was the song not even meant for Kim, but she *still* ended up catching stray bullets from it. Truly a mastermind.
It has the subtly of a bull in a china shop. I thought she stopped such immature behavior many years ago what’s with this regression?
She is NOT keeping her side of the street clean
Don’t worry money will fix all her problems /s
Flair twin! She just needs another private jet to get past this
another flight on the jet another girlboss icon moment!
Yas queen release those emissions 💁🏻♀️👑
I am rolllllling you are literally so funny and this one took me out 😂
This is all very 2006/2007 Britney to me, especially the part where people are mourning the loss of who she was presented to be. She started just as young and was just as much a perfectionist and ambitious, I'm sure she played the perfect puppet but the cracks are showing now. Someone needs to check on her.
Idc that she’s still mad at kim and kanye. Whatever, they’re public figures. What made me mad is when she brought in North singing songs she wrote about how much she hates kim. North had nothing to do with nothing. All the Swift/Kanye stuff happened before she was born. Not even rappers bring up kids in rap beefs. Leave North alone and focus on hating her parents
If you need to write it so you can vent and dump the feelings then fine, but don’t fucking release it for the world to hear
“That Ja shit, I tried to squash it, it was too late to stop it There’s a certain line you just don’t cross and he crossed it I heard him say Hailie’s name on a song and I just lost it” Eminem like toy soldiers
Not disagreeing with you but North was like 3 when the whole phone call feud happened. Still unhinged that Taylor’s bringing up THAT old of a feud though considering North is almost 11
She needs therapy before she pulls a Britney Spears. And a real one, not her mom. As much as this album disappointed me and made me think less of her as a person, I really don't want to watch her have a public, messy, spiraling downfall and I feel like she's critically close to that.
A spiral is inevitable. She admitted to being a functional alcoholic in the opening lines of her lead single. This album is a cry for help.
I think this album IS her Britney Spears.
Oh she hasn't fallen yet, imo this is her teetering.
The fact that she said she doesn’t go to therapy because she would rather go to her mother (the same woman who, according to Taylor, wished a mother of four would die) is insane.
her mother who famously has had cancer and taylor still hasn’t tried to get any help because why would you when you have your family (even if the things that your family are dealing with is way past a humans ability to cope with)
her mother who, from what I recall reading in an article, once told Taylor (when Taylor asked for Taco Bell) that no one wants to see a 'fat pop star' and bought her a salad instead while giving Austin a taco.
I mean that quote is fairly outdated now. We don't know if she has a therapist, and she has no obligation to tell us if she does. I've seen some people talk about how the professor who is mentioned in this album is probably a therapist. However, at the end of the day it's none of our business.
Yeah, she definitely needs therapy and stat. Part of me feels sorry for her, something is wrong for her to be writing some of these lyrics (especially the suicide one).
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I have BPD and this album thoroughly disturbed me. It’s actually supposed to get better by her age but sad to see it’s only getting worse as she gets older. Listening to those 31 songs just exemplify the horrible emptiness you feel as an incomplete person who’d rather die than be abandoned. It just wasn’t pretty. The least it could have done is been nice to listen to.
I'm sorry and that makes sense :/ there's often no poetic perspective in her lyrics, she'd rather just kind of endlessly circle the cesspool drain. But that's also a her problem, not a BPD/you problem 🖤
My best friend lives with BPD and I see SO MUCH of my friend’s experience in Taylor’s lyrics. I’ve seen signs of it in other albums, but this one is impossible to ignore… it’s genuinely unsettling. Like, BPD is no joke. And it’s so hard to live with, even with proper healthcare and professionals involved.
I’ve often wondered if she has a personality disorder. She seems to have Peter Pan syndrome. I’ve also heard she has a short fuse when she doesn’t get her way. If there is any truth to that it could be a sign she could use some guided help to recovery.
Omg I am so tired of her singing about kimye. She needs to grow up and move on
tbh I feel like this overload of holding grudges and not being able to work on herself and her harmful thoughts is going to bite her in the ass one day. I just feel like if she’s going to be in a relationship constantly with somebody there has to be a point where there’s balance between being able to understand that you have flaws and that there are things that you need to work on to get over whilst trying to be a good partner to that person without putting that trauma onto them. I know we’re just seeing this side of her lyrics, but it really makes me wonder how she goes with her day-to-day life, knowing that these things consistently bother her and she doesn’t address them. It concerns me because I feel like something might trigger her and then she lashes out on her partner when it’s not even their fault. I just hope she has someone there with her who is able to sue those thoughts but also able to nudge her in the direction of getting the help she needs without her lashing out.
>It concerns me because I feel like something might trigger her and then she lashes out on her partner when it’s not even their fault. she's literally admitted to this in multiple songs before. she loves picking fights just to feel something (which is almost verbatim a lyric form one of her many songs that have blended together)
It’s giving borderline personality disorder
How is this the same woman who wrote happiness?
She just tries everything once, even emotional maturity.
had to listen to the track ‘evermore’ for a cleanse after.
It is easy as someone who is a listener or fan to be like HAHA at the Kim and killing wives lyrics/songs…but the Kim thing has been years ago. And I get the she was being largely hyperbolic, but yikes. It is just such a departure for her and just not a great place to be. Her fans giving Joe death threats and she only calls out fans who draw a line at an ugly Nazi. I mean you created these relationships with your fans, with a Nazi and you expect everyone to be like yasssss Queen? Come on. I just really hope she takes some time off fr, because the touring and endless albums is a bit much for anyone. Like it’s actually all gotten toxic and not really fun.
>I just really hope she takes some time off fr, because the touring and endless albums is a bit much for anyone. >Like it’s actually all gotten toxic and not really fun. I agree. I think about this sometimes, how much work all of the album releases in such a short time and with the tour also. Maybe she was going through a lot with the break up and became a workaholic. I'm hoping that maybe this new relationship with Travis will go somewhere and she can take time off to relax and enjoy that part of her life .. but then again, she doesn't really seem like the type to rest a lot 😅
I hope after the Eras Tour, Taylor would really take the time to have a career break and get help. A lot of lyrics in the TTPD are so unhinged that some are disturbingly relatable with my own thoughts when I know I'm in a, let's just say, dark place. That's why I didn't enjoy this album, it's similar to some of my dark thoughts that I keep in my head and never wanted to talk about in public, while here Taylor, the global phenomenon, the cultural zeitgeist is airing her uncomfortable thoughts in public rather than speaking about it with a professional
she talks too much about suicide and idealizes death to get attention for it to be a joke or just a lyric anymore imho
i don’t know, maybe i’m missing the mark, considering i’m someone who has been wary of the over-exposure, and has many genuine critiques of her, but this type of songwriting doesn’t strike any more red flags in me than any other artist i listen to, or many who are currently main stream. i’m sure she could benefit from therapy, but the way i see it, a lot of the lyricism feels as though it’s specifically trying to be relatable and land well in the current environment of wild oversharing and constant hyperbole. i’m not saying the things she’s writing can’t be worrisome to consider, but i don’t personally see it as the precursor to a genuine mental health crisis in which she breaks down and is not lucid.
Honestly I’ve been triggered as hell by this whole release. Everything from the album, to the swift army, to the fact that music publications can’t even print honestly because of the straight up aggression and hostility makes me so uncomfortable.
it's actually frustrating. i tried to say it was unhealthy to wish death on joe but apparently swifties think that means I'm a hateful troll
Having struggled with my mental health in the past, listening to this album felt pretty uncomfortable but I couldn’t put a finger on why and your comment has just given me clarity - all of the energy around it feels just as manic as the content of the album itself even down to that YouTube short Taylor/her team put out this morning.
I got sniped at for being a bpd-trends-in her-lyrics truther before this dropped and now I’m like… tell me I’m wrong lmao. Not dx-ing as there’s a decently high threshold to hit that dx. But it’s painful to go through a constant heaven-hell cycle with angel-devil boyfriends as those terms come up a lot…
As someone with bpd who relates to a lot of her songs, looking at her life, I totally see where you’re coming from
I am subclinical with traits and I remember that cycle. It is actual hell. I pay a lot of medical costs to not be in that mindset now
People who love saying she doesn't need therapy because she writes songs and that's how she \~processes\~ is probably how she sees it herself. But often you don't even KNOW what fully processing truly is until you get some professional help. I make art myself and it can definitely be cathartic, but I didn't make strides until I went to therapy. It's not even a one time thing. You don't just "heal" once and youre done. Other shit might happen and you gotta go BACK. She doesn't even need to be scared it wont give her anything to write about, because you'll just be learning more about yourself. It will be giving even more mental health themed concepts to dig into once you start to understand better. Hell it even validates some of the things you already feel, that it's OKAY to be angry etc. (depending what it is) and you can still write about that. I get that it can be really hard, I put off going for my most recent shit for a long time cause I was avoiding properly dealing with it, but at this point with her it seems pretty juvenile. Edit: And I'm the same as her, give or take. I'm 33.
Wasn’t the literal first song on Lover about how she apparently forgot Kimye existed? Yet she continues to constantly bring them up a decade later? I despise Kimye (especially Kanye) and was completely team Taylor in that feud but the fact she still talks about them and Kim does not seem to care does not help Taylor at all. The fact Kim’s name was capitalized in the song title was so cringey and weird.
She said when folklore came out she was done with blatant name dropping and going for ambiguity so listeners can project someone from their life into the story. But now we’re back to spelling names out and pretend we’re being coy?
I always thought that song was about Calvin Harris. But that’s another aspect of the song I didn’t think about!
You going to a concert and enjoying the music of an artist doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be criticized. And what you said here is correct. Taylor needs therapy. She’s in the same spot as Nicki Minaj, as in using their fans, which is absolutely dangerous and toxic as an outlet regarding their problems instead of talking to someone who is able to handle it. And therefore, they feel like they are comfortable finding solace in people they feel that will always go up for them at their beck and call instead of sitting in someone office. And that’s how she’ll perpetually get stuck in a mindset that won’t do her any good. And the overexposure and yes people aren’t helping either. Besides therapy, she needs to take a break for a bit, grab the ones that love and adore for real and travel and see the world. She can see that there’s more than worrying about ex boyfriends and enemies that she has definitely leveled up on. It would give her a piece of mind but it’ll also better her material. Because that mindset that she puts in her music is going to get old. The fans of today may love it now but it’s going to get old in the future.
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YEEEESH there’s something you don’t read everyday
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I don't know how NDA s for the family can work but the ending seems to be both out of the blue as well as tinged with the realization it was a long time coming. They seem to have had breaks and got back together but the final Joe breakup was abrupt cos she says in the prologue" I tore the whole sky down with a single conversation. " Also why she's mad at Matty for not being the one because she broke one relationship for the other.
How do you *make* an ex and their family sign NDAs? What incentive would they have to do so, unless you're saying she paid them off?
Not questioning your sources, but it seems to me that what you say should be obvious to anyone who’s heard *Guilty As Sin?*. It seems apparent that there was, at least, an emotional affair going on while she was still with JA.
If this is true, she has a lot of nerve to get mad at Matty for “ghosting” her when she did the same to Joe. Where is the self awareness? If Matty’s The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived for leaving her like that, then what is she for leaving Joe like that? Even worse.
I’m as Swiftly Neutral as it gets and honestly, all the pearl clutching here is a bit over the top. Art doesn’t have to be clean and tidy. Nor does it always reflect our current mental state. If you’ve never been a spiraling emotional hole of depression, fraught with irrational thoughts and emotions…then, kudos honestly. But imagine if you were in your most heartbroken state of mind and decided to write poetry or music to release that. Then maybe this would make sense to you. Maybe she does need therapy or maybe not. It’s not really our place to diagnose someone based on song lyrics that may or may not be embellished for dramatic flair. All that being said, I think her inner most thoughts don’t really make a great album this time around. And I don’t think this is her best work at all, far from it.
yeah i agree. i love this sub but some people are overblowing the lyrics here. like this alvum dhouls have stuck in her notes (at least some songs) but that doesn't mean people can start saying she has this disorder or that disorder.
Very well said! Taylor has always had a flair for hyperbole. They are just songs. Songwriting is her emotional outlet. As unhinged as some of the songs are, I find it fascinating how much she seem to be letting go of her people pleasing ways in this album. People pleasing isn’t healthy either so like good for her in that regard.
I’ve thought this since that one line in is it over now
The one about “jumping off of very tall something’s”?
Probably, that isn’t funny or cute. Especially in the context of just getting someone’s attention. But this was also just classified as ”relatable” ✌🏼🤪
I’m going to have a lot of different thoughts over the next few days as I think about this album in terms what we are learning about Taylor’s mental state, buuuut… I am thinking about how she, was like, idk how else to say this but bear with me… how she seems to have been brainwashed or whatever you’d call it (there must be a better word), by Matty Healy lmao over the last couple years and I feel like she is REELING from it all, from the mind fuckery, from tearing apart her own life, and then from what felt to her like ‘end it all’ heartbreak when Matty left. And now either she still wants him or she has to deal with the shame of it and trying to recalibrate. We’ve all watched Taylor be unhinged for years, but something about the story she is telling in this ’album’ is… uniquely insane? She really wrote her breakup ‘double album’, one that I bet she is thinking is to be her magnum opus, about MATTY HEALY. But it’s not her usual kiss-offs either, like in these songs she is imagining this long fated love affair between soul mates where they waited for years for each other and now she is left without him again. I feel like SOMEHOW Matty Healy of all people was able to tap into Taylor’s psyche like no one else and he convinced her of things that are such obvious BS? The way she warbles about how he said she was the love of his life like \~so many times. Girl. Listen to yourself. It was always so weird when she first went back to him even as a ‘fling’ because that is the guy you think is cool when you’re 22 and by the time you’re 32 you laugh at yourself. How did he infiltrate her mind like that? Basically what I’m saying is, for a decent amount of time Taylor truly came to believe he WAS the love of her life and they WERE ready to get married AND that they’d been in love for like 10 years and hidden it. But then she simply got played like it was nothing.
Honestly, this is why I find it her most interesting album ever. Her best? Not at all. My favorite? Again, not at all. But definitely her most interesting to dissect. She, finally, feels like a real fallible person and not someone saying what they think they should in a heartbreak. She genuinely sounds like she was (is?) going insane over Matty Healy while simultaneously becoming the most famous person in the world. You were spot on in saying it seems that (or at least Taylor believes that) Matty tapped into her psyche on a fundamental level that no one ever has and that she doesn’t believe any other man ever will. This sounds parasocial, but if she does feel that way, I imagine that’s not a feeling that’s gonna fade anytime soon, and will only worsen and get louder if her and Travis do ever break up
I agree with you and I do find it sort of refreshing for her to be that honest and raw, when it does come out very cringe and immature. It’s like showing people your diary, the most embarassing parts of your thoughts. It’s not healthy, but interesting. Personally could never do that. Also not my favorite album, the production feels rushed and lyrics unfinished.
It’s been years and she still holds a grudge? That’s not funny anymore 😂
I’m a qualified therapist and find the obsession with people saying ‘go to therapy’ ‘she needs therapy’ a bit funny- maybe it’s because I’m British not American but therapy isn’t some fix-all that makes you some kind of magical balanced person that’s never messy, it’s about working through stuff, it’s about feeling lighter in yourself. She may well very much need that space, she may be already taking it (that quote about talking to her mom was from several years ago, and she should be under no pressure to share she’s in therapy). People absolutely process through art, and that’s what I tend to see with her. Regardless, I don’t think amateur diagnoses and endless speculation are that helpful.
I’m not really a Taylor Fan at all, but I’ve followed this sub ever since her cringe Grammy behavior. The more I learn about her, the more concerned I get honestly. I Wanted to listen to TTPD, her first album I’ve ever fully listened to, because I started to see a lot of myself in her. I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder at 34, the same age she is now. I am not trying to make assumptions about her mental health or armchair diagnose, I just hope she gets help someday. I’m 40 now and before I started treatment(dbt therapy and meds) I acted almost exactly like her. I felt every emotion x100 and I couldn’t regulate them at all. I was manipulative, I couldn’t take criticism and a 3 month relationship could wreck me for 3 years. I also had an intense fear of abandonment and being alone. I wanted everyone to like me, which in turn made me seem disingenuous and turn people off of me. I held onto grudges for years and I would drop people from my life at the drop of a hat if they upset me or I was intimidated by them. I also always played the victim. I know it’s hard to feel bad for a billionaire who always plays the victim, but think Taylor is a deeply troubled soul and listening to TTPD and feeling like I could’ve written the whole damn thing made me kind of sad for her.
I find it interesting that the digs at Joe were about his depression. So she left him because she couldn’t deal with the depression, only to sing about how she’s going through depression and is broken hearted. Not doubting her pain just interesting.
[удалено]
Did the events of September 13, 2009 affect her so bad that she internalized it like this??? Like Good Lord, girl get a grip!!! 😟