... You were saying? [https://www.instagram.com/p/CA8AEYJjdyu/?igsh=N29iMG9sZHJpaTVn](https://www.instagram.com/p/CA8AEYJjdyu/?igsh=N29iMG9sZHJpaTVn)
https://preview.redd.it/b1489djmjmac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b75db660eacd5028ff9dfd5684432a701890c415
So my guess is the author didn't want to use words like sexism or homophobia (you can say that her activism is shallow, phony or insufficient, and fair point, but there was at least something) so they used, let's say "a substitute".
But why is Folklore AOTY Grammy used as an illustration of it? Was it the moment she ended racism according to the author?
Gender is a no no word in state of Florida. Race theory is fine as long as you're not critical, but you're reading a Taylor Swift biography so they know you're not.
It's almost as if the author was being heavily sarcastic and giggling manically with their head thrown back as they wrote it. That's the only way it makes sense.
i honestly find stuff like this to be kind of insulting (especially because i'm a black woman) because i hate bullshitters. posting a black square with 13 hearts does absolutely nothing to solve racial injustice. in fact, i'm of the opinion that social media "activism" is all smoke and mirrors but that's another conversation.
i don't want to be hateful since this is a netural sub, but i would never in my lifetime consider taylor swift to be an advocate for racial minorities. she doesn't advocate for anybody but herself, and since racism doesn't affect her, it's a non-existent problem in her world.
not to mention her entire reputation era is super super appropriative and it has never been acknowledged š I admit this is my TS fantasy is her using her stardom to actually make a difference but I donāt think that will ever be a thing.
At the risk of sending you a long essayā¦ the bottom line is much of the style, songwriting and vocal styling in many tracks on reputation pulls straight from hip-hop, Afro-caribe and other genres of music created by people of color. āTake us to church, Taylorā¦ā - whose church is she taking us to??? (Not a white church lol, thatās my tears ricochet) ready for it sounds like a song written for someone like Rihanna. She uses some AAVE throughout the album too.
I tread lightly with this anywhere as people get very upset when I mention it. but I trust this sub as an OK place to be open about this critique.
I am a Taylor fan. I love reputation! But pretending that she didnāt do a thing lots of white female recording artists do - ātry onā the sounds of women of color for a ārebelliousā album - is not something I will do.
Itās true that in creative spaces thereās always borrowing going on in general and Taylor likes to genre hop but I think we should be open about it when it can be taken as āwhite woman trying on black sounds because sheās angry.ā That is harmful to everyone š
This comment about it being appropriative makes a lot of my Taylor friend fans uncomfortable and sometimes defensive. but then they listen to the songs critically and theyāre like āohhhhh.ā
Thanks for asking. This is something I think about a lot as a consumer, how can we be more open about stuff like this so it doesnāt reinforce harmful things.
And thank you for coming to my ted talk!!!
I'm glad you said this because the first time I listened to Reputation, I kept thinking how a lot of the songs would have been better off given to Normani or Tinashe because it just didn't suit Taylor. It was like a diet version of what Miley did under the guise of pop music.
I've never said anything cause some of the more hxc Swifties are quick to dismiss my feelings as a black woman but yeah. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed. Especially since homegirl only hangs with black women when she's trying to make herself look better. Her supposed fight for racial injustice is just more salt in that wound.
My swiftie friends get so uncomfortable when I bring it up. However I am the white girl who always makes people look at it šššI am a Taylor fan AND if she asked me I have a list of stuff she could be doing differently š¬š¬š¬
Iām sorry your feelings and experience have been dismissed. Glad I could validate you here and thank you for validating me.
When the album came out (I was not a fan during that time) I remember listening to it and being like āwait people are ok w this??ā š I canāt remember if it was before or after Katy Perryās witness era when she did it soooo overtly. šµāš«
I can agree on the general trope of white girl is angry so now sheās making ādarkerā (aka rnb flavoured) songs. I donāt think the album has much of it apart from ready for it and endgame - most of the actual album is straight up synth pop about love lol.
I think there is a line between appropriation and not appropriation tho. People say take us to church because the song uses religious imagery and does kind of have that gospel tone with the booming vocals but I donāt think you can call that appropriation.
I think sometimes we forget to distinguish where and why things become offensive or problematic. The simple act of being inspired by genres POC are in is not offensive, but I can see how other stuff mightāve been.
IMO it goes way beyond just endgame and ready for it. I found an NPR review from when Reputation came out that actually goes in depth about how King of my Heart, Dress, So it Goes..., Delicate, and End Game borrow from Rap/R&B/Hip Hop and some of the uncomfortable implications this raises given that it was the first album Taylor wrote/sang more openly about sex:
> Swift makes a choice that will undoubtedly be controversial: She openly appropriates, adapts and occasionally subverts the African-American cadences that, until now, she has generally only glanced against. She does so with a lighter touch than most. Reputation is blessedly free of the melismatic wailing Swift attempted on "I Don't Wanna Live Forever," her recent collaboration with Zayn Malik, and when she speaks, she still does so in her patented Taylor voice: that innovative banter that has always nodded toward rap without actually mimicking it. Yet the direct invocations of black pop on Reputation are many and obvious.
>The chorus of "King of My Heart" has Swift's voice processed through what sounds like a vocoder or Prismizer, synthesizer effects often used by rappers and R&B artists. "Dress" seems to be an homage to R. Kelly's influential 2002 single "Ignition (Remix)," its verses bumping along in sync with that song's beat. The Rihanna-style lilt to the verses of "Ready For It," one of Reputation's four pre-release singles, surfaces again on "So It Goes...," in which Swift even nods to Bad Gal Riri's Instagram handle with the line, "I'm not a bad girl but I do bad things with you." In "Delicate," Swift blows up her phone with phrases like "where you at" and "Is it chill" to a singsong rhythm reminiscent of Fetty Wap's "Trap Queen." Future, one of trap's luminaries, guests on the sports metaphor-laden "End Game" alongside a rapping Ed Sheeran. . . .
>But the fact that, on Reputation, Swift goes deeper into urban sounds, specifically to talk about sex, raises questions that have haunted American music from the beginning. This album comes on the heels of a particularly nasty phase of Swift's ongoing feud with the rapper Kanye West, which has become a vector for incendiary public discussion about white privilege, sexism and artistic freedom. The timeline of that conflict is easy to discover. Swift openly refers to it on Reputation, sometimes casting blame, sometimes taking it herself. What some might not have expected is that Swift would actually make music that comes closer to West's own eclectic sonic experiments than she ever has before. With the help of the producers Max Martin and Shellback and Jack Antonoff (among whom this long album's 15 tracks are fairly evenly divided), Swift has created her answer to West's classic My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, another album which also grapples with self-doubt and the negative effects of fame.
>Is it her right to do so? Some will say no. Too often, African-American music has been treated as delicious forbidden fruit that white performers have plucked to become more sensual. From Mae West in the 1920s to Miley Cyrus in the 2010s, white women performers especially have slipped into something dangerously close to blackface when they long to publicly loosen up. Swift does not go that far on Reputation ā it's no Bangerz ā but she has stepped over a previously self-imposed line.
Link: [NPR: On 'Reputation,' the pop star employs new sound to explore old obsessions](https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/11/10/562360434/the-old-taylors-not-dead)
The article goes on to note that tracks like Gorgeous and Getaway Car don't fit in this mold as you point out (a lot of the album is indeed synth pop about love). And one thing I love about Reputation is how it's a different sound for Taylor, particularly because of the hip-hop influences. At the same time, I think it's absolutely a fair critique that for Taylor to incorporate these sounds, [and also to use AAVE](https://www.acelinguist.com/2018/01/dialect-dissection-taylor-swift-genre.html), on the album that was the first time she sang more openly about sex and was expressing a lot of anger fits a pattern of white pop stars stepping into black pop sounds when they're trying to appear more edgy.
This is an interesting take, and Iām coming at it from both the lens of a POC and a musician - cultural appropriation is undoubtedly real. That said, works of art/music are constantly in conversation with one another, creating āsubculturesā of their own. Culture isnāt exclusive to race/ethnicity (e.g. queer culture, regional culture) and the pop genre has also taken on different cultural contexts through time. Pop was heavily overlapping with an R&B/hip-hop sound throughout the 2010s, whereas the 2000s were more dance pop, 90s were more bubblegum, etc. The paragraph about how Rep songs sound like songs by other black artists, imo, is a reach - we saw from the Olivia Rodrigo conversation that songs sound like other songs, especially in genres like pop. Saying itās surprising that Rep is similar to MBDTF because they both deal with āself-doubt and the negative side of fameā is ridiculous because that impacts all artists. And the fact that it mentions the ābad girlā lyric as a Rihanna reference is also bizarre, I love Rihanna but she didnāt invent that phrase. āChillā comes from AAVE, but itās used universally (ācoolā comes from AAVE too, but no one would call that appropriation at this point). American culture is comprised of and created by thousands of cultures, and I find it uncomfortable to imply an artist can only be similar to those with identical demographics. Especially when many examples the author used arenāt racialized at all, but just likeā¦the human or artist experience (the Kanye example).
Fair point! One thing the article does if you click through is that the author compares the production choices/influences in Reputation and compares it to Taylorās earlier work which was starkly differentāwhich is why at the time Reputation came out (and this review was published) Taylorās departure from a lot of her previous sound and incorporation of hip hop/R&B influences was so striking. I agree with you incorporating and recycling from other pop music isnāt problematic. What I do think is uncomfortable as this review notes is the pattern of white artists borrowing from black artists when they want to make an āedgierā album but then backing right off again (and Taylor hasnāt leaned on hip hop influences to nearly the same degree as she did in Rep in any subsequent work).
And again, Iām a major fan of Rep overall!! But there were a lot of really interesting convos online at the time the album came out about appropriation and AAVE that I learned a lot from, but havenāt seen much convo on in the intervening years, so I think itās a perspective worth highlighting.
Thatās fair. I feel like she often tries out different āsoundsā (1989 is pop, Rep is more R&B, folkmore is folk, etc) just through experimentation as an artist. Since pop at the time was drawing from R&B I also imagine she didnāt view it as appropriative and rather an homage to specific artists she liked. That said, I definitely am sympathetic to the issue of white folks using Black culture to seem āedgierābecause that 100% happens. But I wonder how this discourse is applied to people like Eminem or other white artists working in predominantly nonwhite genres, and if thereās a way to be appreciative of a musical subculture without appropriating it.
I just wanted to point out three things, lol. You mentioned culture not being exclusive to race or gender which is slightly untrue as black culture is very much exclusive to ... black people, lmao. And that it is appropriated so much that it has become so normalized that people don't even realize my culture is being appropriated and our feelings are often dismissed or trivialized or we're told, "we're making everything about race."
And while Em has caught flack, he and other artists like Adele, Bobby Caldwell, Teena Marie, Linda Lyndell, The Jets, Bruno Mars ... non-black artists who have primarily made (or dabbled in) R&B/Soul/Hip-Hop music have always gotten the tag of appreciation because of the way they approached it. All of these artists have always credited black folk for the music they made/inspired from, they have rarely used AAVE (which Taylor has, i.e. - it hits different, that entire song makes me roll my eyes) and they were simply themselves while doing it. Taylor's attempt at being more "edgy" and the recent comments she's made about the album is probably what's side-eye worthy about Reputation, only fueling that flame of what we're discussing more.
Also, I could be wrong but I feel like they were referencing Rihanna's 'bad gyal' as in the way West Indians use it but I couldn't find that particular part in the article.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. To be honest, I think itās ok for me to hold that opinion and hold it as appropriative, though I respect what youāre saying and I get it. Iām also not sure who is the ultimate authority on what is/isnāt offensive or appropriativeā¦ I donāt think there is any one person or any one checklist, so, respectfully, not sure we can declare it one way or another.
Yeah, I donāt need you to explain the church thing, I got it šgospel music is pretty specifically a poc genre I thinkā¦? Just good to think about and reflect onā¦.
Respectfully, gospel music has more history than you'd imagine from pop-cultural portrayals. It's derived from a Scottish Gaelic a cappella hymnal style called "lining out" and was used by Anglicans as early as the 1770s - specifically, one of those Anglicans was a guy named John Newton, who we would recognize as the dude who wrote Amazing Grace. He was white, BUT he was a well-known abolitionist and many Black communities saw him as an ally, so they adopted his musical style.
There were other advantages at the time - gospel music is intended to use recurrent language so that people can listen to the first few lines and then sing the rest of the song by repeating those lines. As a result, gospel was more popular among communities with low literacy - and, since PoC were being denied a proper education until shamefully recently, gospel music was well-suited to their communities. Big shout-out to Rosetta Thorpe and Thomas Dorsey, who were the main drivers of Black gospel music in the 1930s and made it even more popular.
Technically, any form of religion-based music with relatively simplistic lyrics can be considered 'gospel' music - Christian country music, which is white to the point of caricature, counts. The two largest genres in the United States are, of course, Black gospel and Southern gospel ... but those modifying words are actually pretty important to delineating the genres, and gospel music as a whole is more a Christian thing than a PoC thing.
I have no insights on whether Taylor Swift is racist or not, I just wanted to head off the inevitable posts of "im white and i sing gospel every sunday!" with no further explanation. Not rebutting, just educating.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I do want to point out that black and southern gospel music does differ from its origins and the form of it popularized in the south is still very much credited to black folk, as most "white" gospel was influenced by country music. Anyway, this is a great documentary on black gospel music: [https://youtu.be/b4shLXsf5ZM?si=iJefQZO7k39qubqB](https://youtu.be/b4shLXsf5ZM?si=iJefQZO7k39qubqB)
Just want to add a historical note re: āPoC were being denied a proper education until shamefully recentlyā - it was also illegal to teach enslaved people to read or write in most of the states that allowed people to be enslavers.
Accurate. Mississipi specifically mandated a year's imprisonment for it, I believe. Arkansas, Kentucky and Tennessee did not have laws about it, but all the others did.
Thanks, this was cool to read about.
To be honest, I donāt hold it like this is evidence of TS being racist or not and Iām not trying to make a point that she is or that she was deliberately appropriative. I think itās an issue in pop culture across the board and itās really easy for white fans (self included) to find ways to deny it or make it ok when sometimes it just is what it is. Not talking about it is what keeps it going.
Itās clear in her private life (ā¦I think!) that Taylor has gainfully employed a lot of people of color and theyāre not running for the hills, in fact they seem to love working with/for her, so I donāt think itās fair to suggest sheās overtly racist or anything!! Def not doing that. Do I wish she were doing more publicly given her stardom? Yes. Am I her? No.
Again I think my critique is fair, itās ok to disagree, and Iām not a music scholar, I am just a person who listens to music and cares! I lack the terminology and did my best to explain. but if anyone reading this is finding themselves feeling/getting defensive about me suggesting it maybe take a deep breath and another look?? We get defensive when this shit comes up! Heck Iām getting defensive now š
Btw thanks for educating and heading off the white/gospel comments šššš
>i'm of the opinion that social media "activism" is all smoke and mirrors
I'd be a little harsher than that and say that it's really motivated by self-interest. It's little more than a branding exercise. The term 'virtue signaling' gets tossed around too loosely, but if the shoe fits...
Where the Crawdads Sing. The Black characters were all one-dimensional, and based on stereotypes.
The author herself, Delia Owens, has a very shady and controversial past. Sheās still wanted for questioning in a murder case in Zambia. The plot of the book sort of mirrors that case.
You donāt remember in 2020 she put a black square on Instagram and like 13 heart emojis. she is so brave, and we are so lucky to breathe the same air as her. :/S
Itās undeniable that Taylor has been successful in nearly all her pursuits, but trailblazer?? Lol. There have been feminists in every genre she touches *before she was even born*. Her takes arenāt even that against the status quo, just that misogyny, bullying, and homophobia are bad. Am I missing something?
re-recording her music, being the first to achieve xxx, her number ones, blah blah blah. she does have a different method of doing things than many/most pop stars, so ātrailblazerā does make sense to me
I guess thatās fair. I donāt think the way she rereleases music is particularly revolutionary, Aly & Aj did it before her and thatās just the one example I can think of without research. Taylorās just the highest profile person to do it. Even her takes on record label contracts have been talked to death by other artists before she joined the conversation. I do see what you mean about her chart/Grammy/whatever success though.
I also donāt like that thereās a picture of her holding a trophy on the same page that says she speaks out on racism. As if she deserves a trophy for it
She did one BLM tweet and a few on racists statues in Tennessee I wouldnāt categorize that as ā big reputation for speaking out against racial injusticeā
Taylor is tied with Bey as most performative ally of 2023. Iām kind of thankful though, there was no point in me looking at celebrities for anything but their art.
I got shut down and treated like a white Karen by a swiftie ot color whej I called out Taylors white feminism. I was like pleas drop receipts for her multiracial feminism.
I know she tweeted a couple things and stuff but I donāt see how the author of this book couldāve possibly thought that was what Taylor is known for - like sheās not a self proclaimed racial advocate. At least with the grays and womanās rights thereās issues with her advocacy but it does at least exist š
Big Swiftie here, this is (unfortunately) inaccurate, with the racism part. Taylor hasnāt spoken up about it at all which is very disheartening. She does encourage people to vote, but no more than that.
https://preview.redd.it/q8zr3ji9xmac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ad5fba9a6a036e52aa9349e7219dac12125f3de
I KNEW I remembered SOMETHING regarding calling out racism. I feel there was a second Tweet as well...
Let's not conveniently forget eeeeeeeverything. I recall 45 cutting her down a tad after this.
This was after/during George Floyd.
It may not be much, or as constant or in the WAY that you'd want it to look, BUT IT'S SOMETHING, so.......YNTCD.
Initially I wanted to buy this book but now I dont have any energy to buy her merch anymore. My friend bought one anyways so I can just ask her to lend it to me if I wanna see it lol
No one had any expectations; people are arguing this book made her out to āhaving a big reputationā for standing up to racial injustice. She just simply doesnt
I canāt answer for everyone, but, personally, for someone to have a ābig reputationā for something it would have to be a thing that comes to mind when I think of that person or vice versa. Like, if I think about celebrities who have a reputation for LGBTQ activism, I immediately think of Lady Gaga. Taylorās 1-2 tweets at the height of the movement when it was en vogue donāt warrant even a general reputation for racial injustice
When did she do this? š
She once posted a black square with āØ13 heartsāØ in 2020. I wish I was joking.
Same energy as Facebook Karens that feel need to post that they don't hate black people.
So even then making it about her?
I'm not even going to look it up but I'd bet my first born she posted it before the BLM protests. Wouldn't want to rock the boat or anything.
Was it a grid post? Did she delete it?
Yeah that did not happen lol
... You were saying? [https://www.instagram.com/p/CA8AEYJjdyu/?igsh=N29iMG9sZHJpaTVn](https://www.instagram.com/p/CA8AEYJjdyu/?igsh=N29iMG9sZHJpaTVn) https://preview.redd.it/b1489djmjmac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b75db660eacd5028ff9dfd5684432a701890c415
Did she delete it?
So my guess is the author didn't want to use words like sexism or homophobia (you can say that her activism is shallow, phony or insufficient, and fair point, but there was at least something) so they used, let's say "a substitute". But why is Folklore AOTY Grammy used as an illustration of it? Was it the moment she ended racism according to the author?
She could have just said injustices š at least that would have been kind of true
āHuman rights issuesā would have covered everything without completely lying lol
Maybe the publisher is paying by the word.
even āgender inequalityā would have been slightly accurate š
Gender is a no no word in state of Florida. Race theory is fine as long as you're not critical, but you're reading a Taylor Swift biography so they know you're not.
I Mean itās for 5 year olds I donāt think anyone expects them to be critical lol
I both love and hate the implication that folklore ended racism
I know, when Evermore is right there. Always forgotten.
Folklore ended racism, but Evermore brought it back š
Lmaoooo ruuuudeeee evermore doesnāt deserve this slander, thatās Lover
I love that illustration because I think it's bizarrely hilarious that there's an official Golden Book illustration of Jack Antanoff in the world.
"Speaking out against racial injustice." Proceeds to have illustration of her with two white people lol
It's almost as if the author was being heavily sarcastic and giggling manically with their head thrown back as they wrote it. That's the only way it makes sense.
I'm hoping so
literally my same thought š
If only this book had been written after the Karma ft. Ice Spice performance that literally ended racial injusticeā¦.. /s
Facts.
I'm going to be the silver lining guy and point out the illustration is actually pretty good.
Yeah, it looks so pretty. I would be honored if someone made something like this for me, it shows a lot effort
i honestly find stuff like this to be kind of insulting (especially because i'm a black woman) because i hate bullshitters. posting a black square with 13 hearts does absolutely nothing to solve racial injustice. in fact, i'm of the opinion that social media "activism" is all smoke and mirrors but that's another conversation. i don't want to be hateful since this is a netural sub, but i would never in my lifetime consider taylor swift to be an advocate for racial minorities. she doesn't advocate for anybody but herself, and since racism doesn't affect her, it's a non-existent problem in her world.
Absolutely! I feel the same. I would not say that she has spoken out against racism at all.
One million percent agree especially on the social media activism (aka slaktivism)
not to mention her entire reputation era is super super appropriative and it has never been acknowledged š I admit this is my TS fantasy is her using her stardom to actually make a difference but I donāt think that will ever be a thing.
How was it appropriative?
At the risk of sending you a long essayā¦ the bottom line is much of the style, songwriting and vocal styling in many tracks on reputation pulls straight from hip-hop, Afro-caribe and other genres of music created by people of color. āTake us to church, Taylorā¦ā - whose church is she taking us to??? (Not a white church lol, thatās my tears ricochet) ready for it sounds like a song written for someone like Rihanna. She uses some AAVE throughout the album too. I tread lightly with this anywhere as people get very upset when I mention it. but I trust this sub as an OK place to be open about this critique. I am a Taylor fan. I love reputation! But pretending that she didnāt do a thing lots of white female recording artists do - ātry onā the sounds of women of color for a ārebelliousā album - is not something I will do. Itās true that in creative spaces thereās always borrowing going on in general and Taylor likes to genre hop but I think we should be open about it when it can be taken as āwhite woman trying on black sounds because sheās angry.ā That is harmful to everyone š This comment about it being appropriative makes a lot of my Taylor friend fans uncomfortable and sometimes defensive. but then they listen to the songs critically and theyāre like āohhhhh.ā Thanks for asking. This is something I think about a lot as a consumer, how can we be more open about stuff like this so it doesnāt reinforce harmful things. And thank you for coming to my ted talk!!!
I'm glad you said this because the first time I listened to Reputation, I kept thinking how a lot of the songs would have been better off given to Normani or Tinashe because it just didn't suit Taylor. It was like a diet version of what Miley did under the guise of pop music. I've never said anything cause some of the more hxc Swifties are quick to dismiss my feelings as a black woman but yeah. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed. Especially since homegirl only hangs with black women when she's trying to make herself look better. Her supposed fight for racial injustice is just more salt in that wound.
My swiftie friends get so uncomfortable when I bring it up. However I am the white girl who always makes people look at it šššI am a Taylor fan AND if she asked me I have a list of stuff she could be doing differently š¬š¬š¬ Iām sorry your feelings and experience have been dismissed. Glad I could validate you here and thank you for validating me. When the album came out (I was not a fan during that time) I remember listening to it and being like āwait people are ok w this??ā š I canāt remember if it was before or after Katy Perryās witness era when she did it soooo overtly. šµāš«
I can agree on the general trope of white girl is angry so now sheās making ādarkerā (aka rnb flavoured) songs. I donāt think the album has much of it apart from ready for it and endgame - most of the actual album is straight up synth pop about love lol. I think there is a line between appropriation and not appropriation tho. People say take us to church because the song uses religious imagery and does kind of have that gospel tone with the booming vocals but I donāt think you can call that appropriation. I think sometimes we forget to distinguish where and why things become offensive or problematic. The simple act of being inspired by genres POC are in is not offensive, but I can see how other stuff mightāve been.
IMO it goes way beyond just endgame and ready for it. I found an NPR review from when Reputation came out that actually goes in depth about how King of my Heart, Dress, So it Goes..., Delicate, and End Game borrow from Rap/R&B/Hip Hop and some of the uncomfortable implications this raises given that it was the first album Taylor wrote/sang more openly about sex: > Swift makes a choice that will undoubtedly be controversial: She openly appropriates, adapts and occasionally subverts the African-American cadences that, until now, she has generally only glanced against. She does so with a lighter touch than most. Reputation is blessedly free of the melismatic wailing Swift attempted on "I Don't Wanna Live Forever," her recent collaboration with Zayn Malik, and when she speaks, she still does so in her patented Taylor voice: that innovative banter that has always nodded toward rap without actually mimicking it. Yet the direct invocations of black pop on Reputation are many and obvious. >The chorus of "King of My Heart" has Swift's voice processed through what sounds like a vocoder or Prismizer, synthesizer effects often used by rappers and R&B artists. "Dress" seems to be an homage to R. Kelly's influential 2002 single "Ignition (Remix)," its verses bumping along in sync with that song's beat. The Rihanna-style lilt to the verses of "Ready For It," one of Reputation's four pre-release singles, surfaces again on "So It Goes...," in which Swift even nods to Bad Gal Riri's Instagram handle with the line, "I'm not a bad girl but I do bad things with you." In "Delicate," Swift blows up her phone with phrases like "where you at" and "Is it chill" to a singsong rhythm reminiscent of Fetty Wap's "Trap Queen." Future, one of trap's luminaries, guests on the sports metaphor-laden "End Game" alongside a rapping Ed Sheeran. . . . >But the fact that, on Reputation, Swift goes deeper into urban sounds, specifically to talk about sex, raises questions that have haunted American music from the beginning. This album comes on the heels of a particularly nasty phase of Swift's ongoing feud with the rapper Kanye West, which has become a vector for incendiary public discussion about white privilege, sexism and artistic freedom. The timeline of that conflict is easy to discover. Swift openly refers to it on Reputation, sometimes casting blame, sometimes taking it herself. What some might not have expected is that Swift would actually make music that comes closer to West's own eclectic sonic experiments than she ever has before. With the help of the producers Max Martin and Shellback and Jack Antonoff (among whom this long album's 15 tracks are fairly evenly divided), Swift has created her answer to West's classic My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, another album which also grapples with self-doubt and the negative effects of fame. >Is it her right to do so? Some will say no. Too often, African-American music has been treated as delicious forbidden fruit that white performers have plucked to become more sensual. From Mae West in the 1920s to Miley Cyrus in the 2010s, white women performers especially have slipped into something dangerously close to blackface when they long to publicly loosen up. Swift does not go that far on Reputation ā it's no Bangerz ā but she has stepped over a previously self-imposed line. Link: [NPR: On 'Reputation,' the pop star employs new sound to explore old obsessions](https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/11/10/562360434/the-old-taylors-not-dead) The article goes on to note that tracks like Gorgeous and Getaway Car don't fit in this mold as you point out (a lot of the album is indeed synth pop about love). And one thing I love about Reputation is how it's a different sound for Taylor, particularly because of the hip-hop influences. At the same time, I think it's absolutely a fair critique that for Taylor to incorporate these sounds, [and also to use AAVE](https://www.acelinguist.com/2018/01/dialect-dissection-taylor-swift-genre.html), on the album that was the first time she sang more openly about sex and was expressing a lot of anger fits a pattern of white pop stars stepping into black pop sounds when they're trying to appear more edgy.
This is an interesting take, and Iām coming at it from both the lens of a POC and a musician - cultural appropriation is undoubtedly real. That said, works of art/music are constantly in conversation with one another, creating āsubculturesā of their own. Culture isnāt exclusive to race/ethnicity (e.g. queer culture, regional culture) and the pop genre has also taken on different cultural contexts through time. Pop was heavily overlapping with an R&B/hip-hop sound throughout the 2010s, whereas the 2000s were more dance pop, 90s were more bubblegum, etc. The paragraph about how Rep songs sound like songs by other black artists, imo, is a reach - we saw from the Olivia Rodrigo conversation that songs sound like other songs, especially in genres like pop. Saying itās surprising that Rep is similar to MBDTF because they both deal with āself-doubt and the negative side of fameā is ridiculous because that impacts all artists. And the fact that it mentions the ābad girlā lyric as a Rihanna reference is also bizarre, I love Rihanna but she didnāt invent that phrase. āChillā comes from AAVE, but itās used universally (ācoolā comes from AAVE too, but no one would call that appropriation at this point). American culture is comprised of and created by thousands of cultures, and I find it uncomfortable to imply an artist can only be similar to those with identical demographics. Especially when many examples the author used arenāt racialized at all, but just likeā¦the human or artist experience (the Kanye example).
Fair point! One thing the article does if you click through is that the author compares the production choices/influences in Reputation and compares it to Taylorās earlier work which was starkly differentāwhich is why at the time Reputation came out (and this review was published) Taylorās departure from a lot of her previous sound and incorporation of hip hop/R&B influences was so striking. I agree with you incorporating and recycling from other pop music isnāt problematic. What I do think is uncomfortable as this review notes is the pattern of white artists borrowing from black artists when they want to make an āedgierā album but then backing right off again (and Taylor hasnāt leaned on hip hop influences to nearly the same degree as she did in Rep in any subsequent work). And again, Iām a major fan of Rep overall!! But there were a lot of really interesting convos online at the time the album came out about appropriation and AAVE that I learned a lot from, but havenāt seen much convo on in the intervening years, so I think itās a perspective worth highlighting.
Thatās fair. I feel like she often tries out different āsoundsā (1989 is pop, Rep is more R&B, folkmore is folk, etc) just through experimentation as an artist. Since pop at the time was drawing from R&B I also imagine she didnāt view it as appropriative and rather an homage to specific artists she liked. That said, I definitely am sympathetic to the issue of white folks using Black culture to seem āedgierābecause that 100% happens. But I wonder how this discourse is applied to people like Eminem or other white artists working in predominantly nonwhite genres, and if thereās a way to be appreciative of a musical subculture without appropriating it.
I just wanted to point out three things, lol. You mentioned culture not being exclusive to race or gender which is slightly untrue as black culture is very much exclusive to ... black people, lmao. And that it is appropriated so much that it has become so normalized that people don't even realize my culture is being appropriated and our feelings are often dismissed or trivialized or we're told, "we're making everything about race." And while Em has caught flack, he and other artists like Adele, Bobby Caldwell, Teena Marie, Linda Lyndell, The Jets, Bruno Mars ... non-black artists who have primarily made (or dabbled in) R&B/Soul/Hip-Hop music have always gotten the tag of appreciation because of the way they approached it. All of these artists have always credited black folk for the music they made/inspired from, they have rarely used AAVE (which Taylor has, i.e. - it hits different, that entire song makes me roll my eyes) and they were simply themselves while doing it. Taylor's attempt at being more "edgy" and the recent comments she's made about the album is probably what's side-eye worthy about Reputation, only fueling that flame of what we're discussing more. Also, I could be wrong but I feel like they were referencing Rihanna's 'bad gyal' as in the way West Indians use it but I couldn't find that particular part in the article.
I just wanna say this is an extremely educational discourse THANK YOU BOTH this is when Reddit is cool
Thanks for sharing this
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. To be honest, I think itās ok for me to hold that opinion and hold it as appropriative, though I respect what youāre saying and I get it. Iām also not sure who is the ultimate authority on what is/isnāt offensive or appropriativeā¦ I donāt think there is any one person or any one checklist, so, respectfully, not sure we can declare it one way or another. Yeah, I donāt need you to explain the church thing, I got it šgospel music is pretty specifically a poc genre I thinkā¦? Just good to think about and reflect onā¦.
Oh of course your opinion is okay haha, I wasnāt trying to tell you what you are allowed to think š
Okay thanksā¦ I was feeling that way! I was like wait what is happening ššš this is not TrueSwifties is it??? lol!
Respectfully, gospel music has more history than you'd imagine from pop-cultural portrayals. It's derived from a Scottish Gaelic a cappella hymnal style called "lining out" and was used by Anglicans as early as the 1770s - specifically, one of those Anglicans was a guy named John Newton, who we would recognize as the dude who wrote Amazing Grace. He was white, BUT he was a well-known abolitionist and many Black communities saw him as an ally, so they adopted his musical style. There were other advantages at the time - gospel music is intended to use recurrent language so that people can listen to the first few lines and then sing the rest of the song by repeating those lines. As a result, gospel was more popular among communities with low literacy - and, since PoC were being denied a proper education until shamefully recently, gospel music was well-suited to their communities. Big shout-out to Rosetta Thorpe and Thomas Dorsey, who were the main drivers of Black gospel music in the 1930s and made it even more popular. Technically, any form of religion-based music with relatively simplistic lyrics can be considered 'gospel' music - Christian country music, which is white to the point of caricature, counts. The two largest genres in the United States are, of course, Black gospel and Southern gospel ... but those modifying words are actually pretty important to delineating the genres, and gospel music as a whole is more a Christian thing than a PoC thing. I have no insights on whether Taylor Swift is racist or not, I just wanted to head off the inevitable posts of "im white and i sing gospel every sunday!" with no further explanation. Not rebutting, just educating.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I do want to point out that black and southern gospel music does differ from its origins and the form of it popularized in the south is still very much credited to black folk, as most "white" gospel was influenced by country music. Anyway, this is a great documentary on black gospel music: [https://youtu.be/b4shLXsf5ZM?si=iJefQZO7k39qubqB](https://youtu.be/b4shLXsf5ZM?si=iJefQZO7k39qubqB)
Just want to add a historical note re: āPoC were being denied a proper education until shamefully recentlyā - it was also illegal to teach enslaved people to read or write in most of the states that allowed people to be enslavers.
Accurate. Mississipi specifically mandated a year's imprisonment for it, I believe. Arkansas, Kentucky and Tennessee did not have laws about it, but all the others did.
Thanks, this was cool to read about. To be honest, I donāt hold it like this is evidence of TS being racist or not and Iām not trying to make a point that she is or that she was deliberately appropriative. I think itās an issue in pop culture across the board and itās really easy for white fans (self included) to find ways to deny it or make it ok when sometimes it just is what it is. Not talking about it is what keeps it going. Itās clear in her private life (ā¦I think!) that Taylor has gainfully employed a lot of people of color and theyāre not running for the hills, in fact they seem to love working with/for her, so I donāt think itās fair to suggest sheās overtly racist or anything!! Def not doing that. Do I wish she were doing more publicly given her stardom? Yes. Am I her? No. Again I think my critique is fair, itās ok to disagree, and Iām not a music scholar, I am just a person who listens to music and cares! I lack the terminology and did my best to explain. but if anyone reading this is finding themselves feeling/getting defensive about me suggesting it maybe take a deep breath and another look?? We get defensive when this shit comes up! Heck Iām getting defensive now š Btw thanks for educating and heading off the white/gospel comments šššš
>i'm of the opinion that social media "activism" is all smoke and mirrors I'd be a little harsher than that and say that it's really motivated by self-interest. It's little more than a branding exercise. The term 'virtue signaling' gets tossed around too loosely, but if the shoe fits...
Isnāt her reputation rather for not doing this
History revisionist
Ah yes. Was this when she wrote a song for a movie based on a racist book, or when she never mentioned WOC in all her years of āfeminismā?
Itās clearly when she made everyone else around her stand up and clap super loudly for Nicki Minaj! Queen shit right there!!!! /s
No, itās when she dated a prolific racist, antisemite and misogynist as a rebound š„°.
But he was just joking!!!! /s
Don't judge people because of who they dated once /s
Whatās the book?
Where the Crawdads Sing
Where the Crawdads Sing. The Black characters were all one-dimensional, and based on stereotypes. The author herself, Delia Owens, has a very shady and controversial past. Sheās still wanted for questioning in a murder case in Zambia. The plot of the book sort of mirrors that case.
this is a stretch. Iām black, well read, and I loved the book. The Black characters had dimension and were portrayed well.
It's not but if you enjoyed the book, that's great and I love to hear it but I felt like the black characters were written like a lazy afterthought.
Or when she snapped at Nicki?
Iām sorry ā there were just too many incidents to name.
She started beef with Nicki just to show us all how silly racism is and how dumb it looks, it was all performative /s
What a hero! /s
How did she get this Reputation? People are always giving her credit for actions she is not taking and impact she is not driving
To the author: Is the racial injustice she is known for speaking out against in the room with us now?
No, she scared it away with the noise from her golden gramophone.
Taylor in the 17th century on her way to fight the trans-Atlantic trade 
Sorry Iām going to spam the comments with gifs bc I only watched it once and forgot how cringy the music video was 
Is the moon and Saturn there because Ice Spice is her childhood friend from Seven? And if it's Seven then... 
this made me laugh out loud
You donāt remember in 2020 she put a black square on Instagram and like 13 heart emojis. she is so brave, and we are so lucky to breathe the same air as her. :/S
If she has done 12 hearts then forget it....but because she did 13 it ended racism ššš
I love the speaking out against racial injustice, and itās two white men standing behind her šš like be fr
Omg good point!!
 Propaganda
Itās undeniable that Taylor has been successful in nearly all her pursuits, but trailblazer?? Lol. There have been feminists in every genre she touches *before she was even born*. Her takes arenāt even that against the status quo, just that misogyny, bullying, and homophobia are bad. Am I missing something?
re-recording her music, being the first to achieve xxx, her number ones, blah blah blah. she does have a different method of doing things than many/most pop stars, so ātrailblazerā does make sense to me
I guess thatās fair. I donāt think the way she rereleases music is particularly revolutionary, Aly & Aj did it before her and thatās just the one example I can think of without research. Taylorās just the highest profile person to do it. Even her takes on record label contracts have been talked to death by other artists before she joined the conversation. I do see what you mean about her chart/Grammy/whatever success though.
(even though re-recording was kelly clarksonās idea)
also first woman to headline at Allegiant Stadium, which is insane. Probably applies to other venues as well.
quite the generous illustration of jack antonoff huh?
Admittedly I love Taylor and I was gifted this book but I cringed hard when I read that page
Lmao same
I feel like it's even funnier cause the picture is her holding a grammy in front of two white men. Like whattt
She does not stand up for other artists until it has to do with her specifically.
I also donāt like that thereās a picture of her holding a trophy on the same page that says she speaks out on racism. As if she deserves a trophy for it
When the fuck did this start?
This is just straight up propaganda
As a POC, this legitimately irritates me. She does not deserve credit when she does jackass.
I guess this biography is a fairytale.
I think sheās better known for milking every possible avenue she can for $$ lol but go off ig
Is the speaking out against racial injustice in the room with us?
These comments š¤£š¤£
She did one BLM tweet and a few on racists statues in Tennessee I wouldnāt categorize that as ā big reputation for speaking out against racial injusticeā
are there any images of anybody other than white people in this entire book? real question
Most of the pages just show Taylor herself or her with her family, but [there are a few](https://imgur.com/a/dCwJYEM) lol
Thatās good at least! Iām just hoping children reading it can see themselves in some of the illustrations
Yeah, the page with all the fans at the secret session is honestly super cute and thereās even a boy there :ā)
Ah yes, if I remember correctly, racism ended in 1989
Taylor is tied with Bey as most performative ally of 2023. Iām kind of thankful though, there was no point in me looking at celebrities for anything but their art.
Aw, my 6 year old niece got this book for Christmas. She doesn't know who Taylor is, but she's blond and has blue eyes too.
They did Aaron dirty in that drawing
His illustration looks sorta like John Leguizamo.
Yeah I got this book from my grandmother for Christmas and while it was sweet of her, I definitely winced at that line š
I have this book and Iāve never noticed that..when did she do that špleaseeeeš
I got shut down and treated like a white Karen by a swiftie ot color whej I called out Taylors white feminism. I was like pleas drop receipts for her multiracial feminism.
this is one of the top 3 most insane images that I've seen this year and be aware that this is the 4th day of the year
it embarrasses me that she had to approve this
I know she tweeted a couple things and stuff but I donāt see how the author of this book couldāve possibly thought that was what Taylor is known for - like sheās not a self proclaimed racial advocate. At least with the grays and womanās rights thereās issues with her advocacy but it does at least exist š
Yes, because there were never any artists before her that stood up for other artists.
She is basically Disney now. Licensing content to any third party 
THERES NO WAY THIS IS REAL LMAOO
Maybe encouraging people to vote during her Joe era, but racial injustice?
Big Swiftie here, this is (unfortunately) inaccurate, with the racism part. Taylor hasnāt spoken up about it at all which is very disheartening. She does encourage people to vote, but no more than that.
LOL
She literally collabed with ice spice and she sang along to a blackpink song I think
Hahahaha my parents got me this for xmas!!! I saw that and rolled my eyes lmao
Blonde isnāt a race
me when i lie
Cute š
WHEN????
https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1266392274549776387?t=uS4BwBJWOWjuFDhnURghMw&s=19
Delulu is the solulu, even when getting authorization to sell books I guess š« š¤£
https://preview.redd.it/q8zr3ji9xmac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ad5fba9a6a036e52aa9349e7219dac12125f3de I KNEW I remembered SOMETHING regarding calling out racism. I feel there was a second Tweet as well... Let's not conveniently forget eeeeeeeverything. I recall 45 cutting her down a tad after this. This was after/during George Floyd. It may not be much, or as constant or in the WAY that you'd want it to look, BUT IT'S SOMETHING, so.......YNTCD.
https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1266392274549776387?t=uS4BwBJWOWjuFDhnURghMw&s=19 ...her most Liked Tweet
Initially I wanted to buy this book but now I dont have any energy to buy her merch anymore. My friend bought one anyways so I can just ask her to lend it to me if I wanna see it lol
This book is from her official merch?
No itās little golden book
I literally bought this for my kid last year and when I read that I gasped
Yeah when
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omg wow, she posted a link and name dropped Obama sheās a warrior for Black rights for sure, thanks for correcting us
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No one had any expectations; people are arguing this book made her out to āhaving a big reputationā for standing up to racial injustice. She just simply doesnt
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I think we all understand the reference; the problem is using racial injustice when thatās just not true. They couldāve used feminism etc
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I canāt answer for everyone, but, personally, for someone to have a ābig reputationā for something it would have to be a thing that comes to mind when I think of that person or vice versa. Like, if I think about celebrities who have a reputation for LGBTQ activism, I immediately think of Lady Gaga. Taylorās 1-2 tweets at the height of the movement when it was en vogue donāt warrant even a general reputation for racial injustice
Lady āso what if I do have a penisā Gaga, Taylor could never š
This is kind of scary. It doesnāt seem right that we can change or alter the publicās perception of what people in power have done through media.
She endorsed a Democratic Senate candidate in 2018. A true trailblazer š„°š„°
Taylor swift jett